success BentBuddha: Nasty Lexapro

[BentBuddha]

Hi. This is my first post. I haven't had a chance to explore this site yet but will when i finish typing this out.

 

I was on Lexapro for only 30days. Was a bit of a roller coaster. I stopped taking it and about a week after I stopped, I suddenly started to feel really good. The effects I was looking for. This continued for another 8weeks. The following 8wks seemed to level out where I just felt neither good or bad. Now for the last 16wks (yes i recoreded all this with dates as part of my obsession for details) I have been feeling very unpleasant.

 

- pain in my head. Not really like a headache, different. Some sort of inflammation all over

- very poor memomory and concentration. I can barely read a sentence or two in a book without forgetting what I just read

- constipation

- fatigue

- inability to feel warmth/empathy. Even to my own 4month old daughter

- inability to feel joy

- no libido

 

I could go on...

 

These all sound like classic symptoms of low serotonin.

 

Holy crap man i only took this **** for ONE month. It's EIGHT months since! How do they get away with doing this to people? It's frying our precious brains.

 

I supplement with good fish oil and take a probiotic. That's all i can afford at the moment. I would love to be taking Vitamin D. Next week I'll be getting some Glutamine as I read it's great for healing inflammation in the gut and brain. I tried 5-htp but it sent me into very high aggitation. Too early to be taking that yet while my brain is inflammed/healing. I will be using it as soon as I can. My diet is Paleo. I'm 15days into this diet and hoping it helps

 

I'm hoping to hear from ppl with experience on any tips for speeding up the recovery. Some of the stories of ppl taking YEARS scares me.

 

BB

[Altostrata]

HI, BB. Thanks for joining us.

 

There is no such thing as low serotonin. That's a myth made up to sell drugs.

 

There is such a thing as nervous system dysregulation after using psychiatric drugs. They act on the nervous system and sometimes whatever they do has lasting unpleasant effects, such as emotional anesthesia.

 

You might not have antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, exactly, but you may be suffering from the way Lexapro "adjusted" your nervous system.

 

The good news is, with gentle loving care, the nervous system tends to go back to normal. Increasing overall health and reducing stress are good ways to help this along.

 

Glutamine is a component of protein. Whey protein isolate is a good way to get this and other amino acids in a way that won't destabilize your nervous system further.

[BentBuddha]

Yeah i don't think I'm technically in withdrawal either. I know what you mean. I just call it withdrawal for ease of expression. That's what the average person understands. If i go on about what I'm really experiencing, i lose ppl. Well, not ppl here, but ppl offline who have no experience in this sort of thing

 

And also technically, i'm probably not low on serotonin as I know this is made in the gut. But it certainly feels like I don't have access to it in my brain. It may be there, but i suspect this alteration in the brain that these drugs leave us with, causes some kind of disfunction where we don't have access to that serotonin. A bit like being thirsty in a spring of beautiful water with you lips sown up.

 

I'm having second thoughts about glutamine as I'm trying out intermittent fasting and if i do a trial of 2 things at once, and I get better, I won't know which one actually helped so I could give unnecessary advice to others. Pubmed.org is absolutely credible tho and there has been trials that prove that glutamine repairs gut and brain. Taking at 2g a day as a small dose it won't interrupt amino profiles. Body builders take much larger doses but they use it up also. I know of someone who's been taking 2g a day for 15yrs np's. It will be my next experiment. I not so interested in a complete protein supplement as my diet is good. In times of stress and injury the glutamine specifically can become low.

 

Great to be here. This forum is so needed. How drug companies get away with doing this to people I'll never be able to understand properly. I guess the ppl selling this stuff simply have no experience in taking it. I might be niave but I can't imagine anyone selling this stuff to another person if they had to experience what we have.

 

I was thinking as i was trying to sleep last night, that i wasn't on lexapro for only 30days. In 2010, i was on cymbalta for only a week. It sent me manic for 3wks, then i felt good for 5wks, then i crashed off it. I didn't realize i was going through a crash at the time tho as there was such a huge gap between when i took it and what i was feeling. It was so horrible i'd never experienced anything like it. After a couple of weeks of that, in my ignorance I went out and got some more cymbalta at a smaller dose. I'm not sure how long i took that for but wasn't long. That was around xmas time 2010. By Febuary i was feeling terrible again (another crash, but didn't connect the dots then either) and i tried Zoloft. Was on that briefly due to side effects as well, then that also made me feel great for some weeks. Crashed off that, went back on Lexapro, off it after a few weeks. Felt good for a month, average for another month, then another crash. Each time I didn't connect the dots that I was actually crashing from the drug because I just didn't think anyone could crash so long after taking them. Now i know what a crash off anti depressants feels like, there's no mistaking it. I just thought i was messed up naturally, not from the drugs. Else there's no chance in hell i would have reached out for more of them. So anyway, after that crash I went on Lexapro again for 30days, and had to stop for side effects, and then had my experiences I mentioned in my first post.

 

So I've been on a roller coaster with these drugs since mid 2010 I think. Wow, no wonder i feel so terrible. I've put my brain through some serious trauma.

 

Thanks for reading and taking the time to reply with encouragement

 

BB

[Whatever]

Welcome!

 

Perhaps it would be best if you created a basic timeline, listing what you took, how much, when and with all lags in between.

 

I know that when I was on pmeds my pdoc would have me on one med, raise the dose and then stop that drug and switch me to another - my neuro system could never keep up.

[Altostrata]

BB, it sounds like you were always exceptionally sensitive to antidepressants. Some people should never be given these drugs -- an adverse reaction to the first one is an indication.

 

For some people, repeated trials of these drugs "wear out" the nervous system, resulting in what psychiatrists call "treatment-resistant" depression. (They then try "natural" remedies to help, such as fish oil, folic acid, and exercise. When all else fails and the patient is still complaining, they try ECT. Don't do this.)

 

You are correct in trying only one remedy at a time. Please let us know how glutamine works for you. Anything that can help the nervous system repair itself may be helpful.

[Altostrata]

BentBuddha, how are you doing?

[BentBuddha]

Better these days Alto. No miracles but very decent progress. I've just been updating the BioTuner and GAPS/Paleo threads as to my progress as these are the things that have been helping me.

[Nikki]

BB...

 

I tapered from Lexapro a few years back and it was very hard for me. I was led to believe that it was alot easier than tapering Paxil which was true for me, but getting off any ssri's is a tough process.

 

Glad that you are making steady progress in feeling better.

 

I have only taken ssri's and tricyclics.

 

Celexa is a hard one to get off of, however, the tricyclics are (for me) much easier.

 

I have to look up Paleo diets. I am not familiar with it.

 

Hugs

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, BB.

[BentBuddha]

Wiki definition of Working Memory:

 

"Working memory is the system that actively holds multiple pieces of transitory information in the mind, where they can be manipulated. This involves execution of verbal and nonverbal tasks—such as reasoning and comprehension—and makes them available for further information-processing.[1] It is not the same as short term memory. Working memory tasks require monitoring (i.e., manipulation of information or behaviors) as part of completing goal-directed actions in the setting of interfering processes and distractions. The cognitive processes needed to achieve this include the executive and attention control of short-term memory, which permit interim integration, processing, disposal, and retrieval of information. These processes are sensitive to age: working memory is associated with cognitive development, and research shows that its capacity tends to decline with old age. Working memory is a theoretical concept central both to cognitive psychology and neuroscience. In addition, neurological studies demonstrate a link between working memory and learning and attention.

 

Theories exist both regarding the theoretical structure of working memory and the role of specific parts of the brain involved in working memory. Research identifies the frontal cortex, parietal cortex, anterior cingulate, and parts of the basal ganglia as crucial. The neural basis of working memory has been derived from lesion experiments in animals and functional imaging upon humans."

 

Late last year I spent a few hours with a some sort of psychologist with a PhD. I don't remember his title. It was a series of cognitive tests. In Australia it's called: WECHSLER ADULT INTELLIGENCE SCALE - THIRD EDITION (WAIS - III) I seemed to doing fine all the way til the end so I felt a bit silly telling him my memory is very poor since SRRI's. Until the final test was him reading a short story and asking me to remember as much detail as i can. The story may have been one decent paragraph. I could only remember the first sentence and after that I just couldn't take in anymore info. Since taking Lexapro, I stopped reading books. Before that I was a book lover and loved gathering information and learning. Since then I noticed I watch a lot of downloaded tv shows and movies. My IQ was recorded at 106 so even tho I know it dropped a few points as it took me more time to solve some questions/puzzles, I know it's at least slightly above our national average of 100. Where I took a big nose dive was the Working Memory. The average is 100 and mine is 70. Having a poor Working Memory has me often feeling overwhelmed by things most ppl do with ease - like driving or reading instructions for things. Makes it impossible to study for any future career also.

 

I haven't read anyone else on this forum so far talking about this injury from the SSRI's. Plz share if you have, and if it has gotten any better with time. 1.5yrs after Lexapro and mine doesn't seen to show any improvement

 

p.s I had to meet with a psychiatrist today as part of getting benefits from my government. He tried to convince me that my difficulties reading are because I'm depressed. *sigh*

 

bb

[alexjuice]

Was it a Weschler battery?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale

 

It's a partial (or full) IQ test standard in comprehensive psychological eval.

 

There are many reasons why your memory would be weaker. Certainly Lexapro is a possible cause? If you were micronutrient deficient that could affect memory. Drug use could affect memory. Toxic exposure affects it.

 

In any event, I think it should be improvable.

 

Do you do any smoking, drinking, drugs? If so, those probably are, at best, confounders.

 

In the short term, I might start reading again. Find some websites with memory exercises. "use-it-or-lose-it" could be an explanation.

 

As you can see, I don't know. I have memory problems but mine seem not to be attributable to SSRI use.

 

And, one more if-I-was-you, get a copy of your evaluation. You should know what it says, not just what the guy says it says. Maybe you'll find out some idea of your IQ range.

 

good luck,

Alex

[alexjuice]

Ok. I swear the post I responded to didn't say Weschler.

 

BB, did you edit that? Or is my memory that bad????

[compsports]

Hi BB,

 

I have memory impairments but they are from lack of sleep which is due to not being able to stay asleep on my cpap machine. But if I remember correctly, people have had memory issues from being on psych meds.

 

I had to meet with a psychiatrist today as part of getting benefits from my government. He tried to convince me that my difficulties reading are because I'm depressed. *sigh*

Ah, the old boiler place explanation that all memory issues are due to depression if there isn't another explanation and of course, he isn't going to believe that a med caused this.

 

CS

[BentBuddha]

Comps, I'm surprised they haven't blamed flatulence on depression yet. Just about everything I ever say gets blame on depression. They're like robots with pre recorded responses.

 

Alex, no I didn't edit the name. And my Working Memory dropped as soon as I started taking lexapro and never recovered. Was a night and day difference between before and after. Headaches went parallel with it too

[compsports]

Comps, I'm surprised they haven't blamed flatulence on depression yet. Just about everything I ever say gets blame on depression. They're like robots with pre recorded responses.

Have no fear BB, that will happen in due time.

 

CS

[Skyler]

As you can see, I don't know. I have memory problems but mine seem not to be attributable to SSRI use.

Short term and working memory issues are caused by benzodiazepine use, especially klonopin which is used as an amnestic in OR settings. Memory loss caused by long term klonopin use may partially recover over time. Anticonvulsants also cause memory loss, but this reverts when use is stopped.

 

I wish it were not so.

[alexjuice]

Comps, I'm surprised they haven't blamed flatulence on depression yet. Just about everything I ever say gets blame on depression. They're like robots with pre recorded responses.

 

Alex, no I didn't edit the name. And my Working Memory dropped as soon as I started taking lexapro and never recovered. Was a night and day difference between before and after. Headaches went parallel with it too

 

Then it sounds like the Lexapro.

 

I am dealing with memory problems myself. I know how bad they are. I took too much medication last night b/c of memory and I'm having trouble breathing again. So I don't know the answer entirely.

 

In theory, lots of practice should help you. Again, if I were in your shoes, I'd try to challenge myself, try to avoid frustration, and do some memory-building games. Try to be good to yourself.

 

best,

Alex

[Jemima]

BB,

 

I moved your post on working memory problems here because it has to do with your personal trials rather than general information about symptoms and what helps.

 

How about adding your drug history to your signature, like so:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

I had memory problems while tapering off of Lexapro too fast and many months into withdrawal, but thirteen months out my working memory is pretty much back to normal and I have occasional short term memory problems, but that's come a long way back as well.

[Altostrata]

BB, I was just wondering how you were doing. Good to hear from you.

 

I've had noticeable attention and concentration problems. Prior to withdrawal, I had extraordinary concentration and short-term memory.

 

They did mostly come back.

[BentBuddha]

Hi Alto. I'm doing ok. Strangely, recently I've been dealing with some depression. I say strangely because it's been a long time since I could feel things at a deep level like that. Depression is a deep feeling in my opinion. Off and on for the last maybe 10days. I was taking Ubiquinol 100mg 2x a day but instead of energizing me, I felt kind of fatigued on it. Probably more accurate to describe it as muscle weakness. I stopped taking that maybe 10days ago so it's possible there's a link there. I took it for maybe 10days at the most.

 

Working memory is something we use in most tasks to do with the mind and now that I know what it is, I'm curious about others if they have the same injury. Tony Connerly on youtube suffered what seems like an identicle injury to me from Lexapro. Going by his youtube clip, he seems to have the same cognitive difficulities. I'm hoping it's a matter of just retraining the brain, but one would think that with all the tasks we have during the day that involve Working Memory, that it would improve somewhat without the extra exercises.

 

I watched a TED clip on youtube by a neuro scientist talking about how computer games like Call Of Duty really help the brain. Was thinking of investing in a play station and playing it for 45mins a night

[Nikki]

Short term memory loss is an issue with this stuff. It does pass

 

Any type of game is good for the brain. I play Words With Friends on Facebook. Have several games going on. If you would like to play, send me a friend request....[deleted to protect privacy]

 

Lexapro (when I was in WD) caused bad memory loss for me. It made me a nervous wreck.

 

I promise it will eventually pass.

 

Hugs

Edited February 1, 2013 by Altostrata
deleted name to protect privacy

[Altostrata]

Nikki, I deleted your name because it can be Googled and linked to your posts on this site.

 

BB, if you want to contact Nikki, please send her a pm.

[BentBuddha]

update.

 

I have disconinued using the bio-tuner. I was ritually having caffeine on Saturday mornings at the farmers markets, and that was actually affecting me for about 5days due to extreme sensitivity. I was using the biotuner maybe every 4-5days. I noticed after I stopped drinking any caffeine on Saturdays, the biotuner was having a different effect on me. Sometimes depression (i'm guessing because the stimulation for the caffeine wasn't counter balancing it) and sometimes some inappropriate kind of happy mood. Not sure how else to describe that. Like an excessive happiness that was out of sync with real life and couldn't tone it down. Sounds like a strange thing to complain about but it was actually non enjoyable due to my 'working memory' being in the state it is, it would be confusing. I figured the caffeine and biotuner were making my life more enjoyable than the extreme aggiation I would dip into frequently but in the long run were only prolonging my injury as my brain really needed rest.

 

I since started using Ubiquinol again after noticing something interesting. After the effects of muscle weakness etc subsided, I regained my sense of spirituality. Something I just haven't been able to tune into since being on these drugs or afterwards. I guess for those not spiritually orientated, I could easily change that word for 'empathy', 'love' and the like. In fact it came back super strong and deep because as soon as I noticed it, i started meditating like I used to and I could expand it. I thought it was because I hadn't had caffeine or anything for a few weeks - and that's partly true - but really it was the Ubiquinol. I know this because i had caffeine and alcohol one night and then didn't for many weeks and I just couldn't regain that state again. Even tho I meditated regularly. Until I started using it again recently.

 

Now, I only take 1 x 100mg on Sunday nights and sometimes 1 on Thurs. I take the Dr. Mercola Ubiquinol because I trust him. Mondays i feel some muscle weakness but it's mild and it passes. It's actually rare for ppl to lose strength and energy on Ubiquinol, but I seem to always fit in the catagory.

 

I hope someone else on this forum tries it out and not only regains some emotions but actually gets the energy boosting effects that the majority of ppl do. I'm going give some to my 60yr old friend as he's about to reluctantly retire from recreational sports due to his age and hopefully he can squeeze a few more years in.

 

For those that don't know anything about Ubiquinol, it caught my interest because in studies it healed rats brains which were chemically brain damaged. It also increased their lifespan by a substantial amount of time. It was reported to increase energy as well. As a former sufferer of chronic fatigue syndrome, this stood out to me.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, BB.

 

Overall, are you feeling better? What symptoms do you still have?

[BentBuddha]

Mainly my 'working memory'. Most noticeable when I read. I feel a strain in my head and though I can read the words fine (I read my daughter to sleep), comprehension is low and I don't remember what I've read so well. What I'm reading doesn't sink in or 'stick'.

 

If I have to use that part of my brain for long periods, say if I'm driving and my daughter doesn't stop asking me questions, then my head really starts to hurt and I can become impatient. But it's not to the scale it was 12months ago. I can remember feeling like some kind of heartless psycho back then. Then agitation level was off the charts.

 

My blood pressure has always been on the low side and Ubiquinol lowers blood pressure. That may be the cause of the muscle weakness

[abir]

Hi BentBuddha,

 

I did a search on Chronic Fatigue syndrome in the forums and was led to your thread...

 

I am suffering from CFS after a viral illness 20 years ago... I was mis-diagnosed with depression at that time and i was put on so many antidepressants (SSRI, SNRIs, MAOIs...) and nothing helped with my mental and physical exhaustion and complete lack of energy... but was told to stay on ADs, that ADs always help with chronic illnesses!!! i was ignorant...

 

i noticed that my problems with my working memory were becoming much worse and i was having them all the time (before, i would have only when i am really exhausted)... but I did not link that to ADs... I thought my CFS was getting worse...

 

my memory, concentration, even my exhaustion continued to get much worse over the last 7 years (that is 10 years after being on antidepressants).. also, i started developing "side effects" from the ADs like body jerks, inability to cry, emotional numbness (don't know why i started having those symptoms at that time after being on AD for so many years)... finally it occurred to me that all my symptoms, including the decline in my cognitive abilities and lack of energy could have been caused caused by being on AD for 17 years... so i stopped taking ADs and now i am in withdrawal...

 

reading your story and your posts confirmed my suspicion... hopefully once i recover from this withdrawal, my cognitive issues will improve...

 

may I ask you a question? you said you were a "former sufferer of chronic fatigue syndrome".. what helped you recover? did it just go away by itself?