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#1 dalsaan

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 07:52 PM

HI everyone,

My history:

first prescribed an AD - Effexor (75 mgs I think) at the start of 2005 was on it for 8 weeks and had extreme insomnia (an adverse reaction?) Dr said all ADs have side effects you have to live with it.

Changed Dr, he put me on Remeron (or Avanza as its known in Australia. Worked ok, continued to have trouble sleeping but not the extreme insomnia I experienced with the Effexor.

Stayed on remeron until 2008 when I went off suddenly - ran out of prescription, dr away etc. Had nausea, dizzyness, motion sickness (on land) visual disturbances and extreme insomnia. Dr prescribed sleeping tablets etc, after 8 weeks couldnt hack it anymore went back on to remeron 30 mg.

Since then have had 4 more tries at getting off, tapering slower and slower. Have also excluded a whole heap of illnesses that I thought might have been masked by my ADs. I did this because no dr has ever mentioned withdrawal. Every time, same thing.

Asked for a referral to a psychiatrist instead of just trying to work with GP. Psychiatrist said "I have never had anyone have any trouble discontinuing remeron, I tell my patients to stop cold turkey". Try taking an antihistamine or switching to prozac as it has a long half life, here is a script if you ever decide to do it.

read more, decided its withdrawal, got remeron tabs converted to liquid and have been tapering at 1ml per week from 15 ml. Currently on 8 ml. Just had a crap week - emotional all over the place, chills, more significant insomnia (down from 4.5 hrs to 2.5). Have decided I need to slow it down even more.

I have some questions if anyone can help.

Has anyone else had a problem with remeron, I havent seen much about it on the forums
I know you advise against skipping days but would you advise against alternating doses eg 8 ml, 7.5 ml, 8 ml, 7.5 etc then 7.5 consitently then the alternating routine from 7.5, 7 just to lessen the step?

with the sleep stuff I feel slightly wired when I lie down to sleep, kind of like the switch is stuck on. Could this be cortisol, does magnesium lower cortisol and if so how much should i take and when?

any help much appreciated. I feel like my medical practitioners know nothing and I have to work this out (with a little help from my new friends hopefully!)

take care

Dalsaan
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#2 Shanti

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:27 PM

Hi Dalsaan. Welcome to the group. I'm sorry, I don't have experience with the medicine you're taking. But I do know it is important to have a consistent dose every day to let your brain and nervous system adjust more gently. You've been through a lot, and the story of the doctors acting like they've never heard of such problems is typical, and it never ceases to amaze me that they keep telling people this. Could they really be that blind? I know others will come and have better advice for your specific situation. I just wanted to welcome you and tell you that we're all in this together now and we're making it.
Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.
Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)
My Paxil Website
My Intro

#3 Jemima

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:39 PM

I was put on Remeron for sleep while also on Pristiq (a version of Effexor, I think) while hospitalized for depression. It worked, but a few weeks after I was discharged I found that Remeron caused flu-like symptoms and greatly aggravated a circulatory problem I have called Reynaud's Phenomena, a fancy term for getting cold hands and feet in cool weather. I was able to taper off over a month or so (I don't remember the intial dose), but that was likely fairly easy because I continued the other antidepressant. Avoid alternating doses! The problems arise not just from the drug in your body, but from neurological changes in the brain. Take your tapering off just as slowly as possible in your circumstances. I hope that Alto will be along soon to offer additional advice. In the meantime, please review the topics under "Symptoms and What Helps" for some really useful ideas.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#4 dalsaan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:18 AM

Thanks shanti and Jemima. I really appreciate your advice and support One other question I have - has anyone tried what my psychiatrist recommended, moving onto Prozac to use its long half life as a taper Thanks once again
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#5 Shanti

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

Yes, I switched from Paxil to Prozac after trying for many months to taper my Paxil below 20 mg. It was just too difficult. I did the Prozac switch in December and my taper off of Prozac since then has been much smoother. I think it's worth a try for anyone having a hard time.
Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.
Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)
My Paxil Website
My Intro

#6 Rhiannon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:02 AM

Welcome Dalsaan! I think you'll find lots of good information and support here. The main things I wanted to add right now are: First, as others have said, better not to alternate doses. Next: Needing to go very slowly is not uncommon. There's a lot of variation. Clearly experience has shown that you need to go slowly. Since you're running into some bumps now, perhaps this would be a good time to hold your taper for a while (that is, stop tapering for a while, stay on the same dose, see if things settle down a bit). Most people find it necessary to adjust their tapers as they go along and to take holds from time to time to allow the healing process to catch up with the reductions they have already made. Most people also find it necessary to go more slowly as they get lower in dosage. Think in terms of your current cut as a percentage of your current dose not as a percentage of your original dose. 1 mL is less than 10% of 15 mL but it's more than 10% of 8 mL. And generally when people make 10% cuts they have to hold longer than a week--usually at least two weeks. You're down almost to half your original dose so you may need to make your cuts correspondingly smaller. If you make 10% cuts you may need to try allowing more time between them. Mainly, I would say, take heart. You've got a liquid compound, which is excellent. You've been successful so far. At this point I think, given the history you describe, your best bet would be to stop tapering for a month or two (or as long as necessary) to allow things to stabilize and catch up with the 53% reduction you've already made in a fairly short time. You're growing a new brain and repairing a damaged HPA axis. That doesn't happen overnight. Then when you restart the taper try cutting by smaller increments and taking longer breaks. It can work. You can do this. Just be patient. It's not a race--and even if it were, as you can see going faster often leads to crashes and having to stabilize and then start all over. If it's a race, it's the kind of race where the tortoise wins.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#7 Altostrata

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

Welcome, Dalsaan. The folks up above have given such good advice, I don't think I can add anything. Since you have liquid Remeron, you have a lot of control over the rate of your taper. Rhi has a good point, you're down in dosage so your decreases now represent a larger proportion of your dose. Since you've started to get withdrawal symptoms, if I were you, I'd hold for a bit to see if they go away. Don't forge ahead with decreases. Once you stabilize, try a very small decrease, even .25mg, and see how you feel. You might be able to make these micro-drops more often than every week, or you may find you need to hold longer. It's safer to slow down a taper than count on a switch to Prozac. Sometimes it doesn't work. It really should be used only when a taper becomes unbearable or there are other serious adverse effects from the medication.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#8 dalsaan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

Thanks for your help. I'll take the tortoise option. I had another very average sleep last night so now I am thinking I might need to back track rather than just stay where I am for a month. I know that sleep deprivation is might greatest risk to success. Any thoughts. Should I ride it out for a while on 8 or go back up to 9 or 10. Also would you read my history of indicating a kind of hypersensitivity? I still drink coffee in the mornings and struggle without it due to sleep deprivation. Should I have a go at giving it up entirely or would this put too much pressures on my system- withdrawing from another substance now.
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#9 dalsaan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

Sorry for all the questions. I feel like this is the first time I have had access to any informed support/advice. I really appreciate your help
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#10 Altostrata

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:00 PM

Well, thanks, Dalsaan. From your history, which includes severe withdrawal symptoms and a need for a very gradual taper, I suspect you might be hypersensitive. Caffeine has a very long half-life and could be contributing to sleep problems. If I were you, I'd try a bit of a reduction in that.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#11 Nikki

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

Hi Dalsaan and welcome... I have not taken remeron. Have gone thru the withdrawal process a few times. Unfortunately doctors do not know what we know. This is a great support group, not just with information but also with understanding and needing a place to vent. Liquid is so much easier. Make you drops smaller is dose and take your time in between drops. It really is easier on us than larger cuts in dose. You asked about magnesium. It helped me during a lexapro taper. Ask Alto about her dosage. You have to be careful as too much can upset the stomach. Calcium is supposed to have a calming effect. Try not to do too much in the line of supplements. there can be adverse reactions due to the withdrawal. Lots of people take Fish Oil for depression. I once had a doctor tell me he "did not believe in WD". You aren't alone and you don't have to do this alone. Nice to meet you

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#12 Jemima

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:31 PM

The fact that you're able to sleep at all is a good sign. I had terrible insomnia for two or three months after tapering off Lexapro.

I couldn't tolerate coffee (or even regular tea) at all during early withdrawal and now I've completely lost my taste for it. The one thing I found that tastes like good coffee but has no caffeine is chicory. I got it from an online store called Nuts.com.

And don't be at all embarrassed about asking questions. I think I can speak for most of us here on the forum in saying that we all were quite bewildered about what was happening to us at first - while doctors either denied there was anything happening to us or mistook withdrawal for relapse. I don't remember if I asked lots of questions at first, but I do remember hanging onto this forum like it was the last life raft thrown off the Titanic.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#13 Karma

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 04:18 PM

Hi Dalsaan Welcome to the forum. Gosh, such good advice has already been given and Nikki is right, there is a lot of support and compassion on this forum. Regarding your sleep, there is a good chance that it is cortisol building up in the evening. Magnesium can help calm you to sleep; so can Melatonin, phosphatidylserine and Seriphos. Check out this link http://survivinganti...rx-and-natural/ Since you are probably hypersensitized, if you do decide to try a supplement for sleep, only change one thing at a time and give it a week to see if it works or if it causes any ill effects. If it causes ill effects go ahead an stop it, but give it some time to work. I take large amounts of magnesium (800-1000 mg) but I have celiac disease and have absorption issues. I've used melatonin and phosphatidylserine successfully to help with sleep. Once again, welcome. Love and light, Karma

2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & 1 mg Xanax & 200 mg Gabapentin
Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 mg - hold
Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg

I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers


#14 xDebbiejo

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

Hello Dalsaan Just like to welcome you also! I m quite new to this site, I would not have known what to do if I hadn't the help and support from the caring peeps on this forum I wish you well Debbie x
17 years on seroxat/paxil CT off - thought I was dying luckily found this site. 21st May 2012 12mg seroxat
Stable - Tapered Diazepam slowish.1st June 10mg Seroxat
2nd June 1mg Diazepam.15th June 9mg seroxat
2nd July Changed to 2.5[ml liquid diazepam]2mg=5ml. 16th July 2ml Liquid Diazepam
2nd August 8mg/4ml Seroxat/Paxil 2nd August 1.5 ml Diazepam
18th Aug 2012 1ml Diazepam 1st - 5th Sept 0.5
Diazepam Free!
13th Oct 7mg/3.5ml seroxat - 26 Jan 2013 3.25ml/6.5mg-Mar 3ml-April 2.7ml-May 2.5ml
01/07/14 very slow taper over the last year now on 0.5 ml of liquid Seroxat ......November 14 Seroat Free!!!!!!!

#15 dalsaan

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:46 PM

Thanks everyone for your warm welcome and support I am after some more advice. I have been on 8mls for a couple of weeks now. Mostly it's going ok but I really can't sleep. I have always had significant trouble sleeping when I have dropped this far. I think it's a cortisol issue because I feel a bit wired. It's like a switch is stuck on, not hyper but just too alert and can't drop off to sleep My question should I go back up in dose and hope this resolves the sleep issues? I'm really reluctant but I don't it's going to resolve spontaneously. It never has before Also does anyone have ant recommendations for dr's in Australia that know anything about withdrawal? Take care Dalsaan
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#16 dalsaan

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 12:05 AM

Altostrata.

I just saw your post here http://beyondmeds.co...ctedwithdrawal/. Your discussion of the cortisol sleep stuff rings so true. I can be totally exhausted and as soon as I lie down my body goes hang on a minute we need to stay alert and I'm awake, too awake to sleep. I think I'm down to no sleep now. Or at best some light sleep after 4am

Would reducing my external stress be positive or would it make no to no different?
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#17 Altostrata

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:07 AM

Yes, minimizing external stress can help. With the chills, etc., it sounds like your system is having difficulty with decreases of 1mg. You might updose a bit, stabilize for several weeks, and decrease by much less than 1mg -- .25mg, for example. We have topics about reducing the influence of cortisol in the Symptoms section.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#18 Nikki

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

When I drop the dose I do get isomnia which is triggered by the cortisol. After a week I can return to falling asleep. I have tried other alternatives for sleep which worked, but I have developed such sensitivites to all medications that I get a rebounding depression. Propanolol is a Beta Blocker which is not addictive. It did stop anxiety dead in it's tracks and it did allow me to fall asleep. If I took it for more than two nights I had that rebounding depression. Google Rescue Remedy. They are natural tinctures that have been around since forever. they can help with anxiety and sleep. There are benzos like Xanax. I get a rebounding depression from them and a hung-over feeling from just a tiny amount. They are very addictive. There is another medication....can't remember how to spell it. Hydrzizine????? It is the isolated drug that is in Bendryl which causes sleepiness. It knocked me out, but again.... I was hung-over and felt a bit depressed. Ask Shanti for a natural remedy....she' very good at this. Hope you get some sleep. Hugs

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#19 dalsaan

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

Update. Sleep still elusive. Have gone back up to 9ml but hasn't resolved insomnia. Am contemplating going back to the start 15 ml. And beginning my taper again working with smaller drops and less often It's all a bit disappointing, frustrating etc etc
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#20 dalsaan

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:04 AM

Hi everyone Update - Went back up to 10ml. Have started to sleep again. Getting about 4-5 hrs which is a lot better than it has been. I am going to stay on 10ml for at least a month and spend some time getting my sleep routine as good as it can be. Still learning about this stuff. I think mirtazapine withdrawal is a double whammy - rebound insomnia from ad effects and rebound insomnia from decrease in antihistamine. No wonder it's harsh
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#21 Altostrata

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:34 AM

That's great news, Dalsaan. I think you are 200% right about mirtazapine withdrawal.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#22 dalsaan

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:16 PM

Sleep has dropped off again. Averaging about 3hrs which is not enough. My sleep debt is bigger than my mortgage Today someone at work said can I pick your brain about something. I said good luck with that
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#23 annej

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:42 PM

Hi dalsaan, I note that you get compounded mirtazepine. Is it prepared as a "fixed oil" base (almond oil, etc) or is it held in suspension in another medium? What is the shelf-life? (2 weeks, 30 days? longer) When I was looking to taper mirtazepine, my compounding pharmacist called the compounding association of which he is a member and they said it was a suspension either in an oil base which was stable for 30 days or another medium such as Ora-Plus (a commercially prepared suspending vehicle) with a shelf life of 2 weeks. Just curious as to how your mirt is compounded. What is the concentration of your compounded mirt? (how many mg/ml). Thanks. :) Hugs, Annej

My Intro
2000-Effexor and Klonopin
April 2011- C/T Adderall, lithium, Seroquel, Lunesta; Pristiq and Klonopin cut by 1/2 due to med-induced "rapid cycling"
May 2011- Pristiq/Lexapro bridge/taper
June, 2011- K cut to 0.5 mg (doctor)
July 18, 2011 - Lexapro done
October 2011- K taper started
Jan, 2012- Off K, Remeron started -bad idea
March 2012- Horrific Tardive Akathisa/TD (Dx: TA versus withdrawal akathisia secondary to K w/d)
May 2012- Reinstatement of K
Current Psych Meds: Klonopin 2 mg + Propanolol 15 mg and titrating up
As of June 2013: TA gone or suppressed - struggling with tolerance to benzos - beta blocker helping


#24 dalsaan

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:45 PM

Hi AnneJ, I'm not sure what its suspended in. I asked my pharmacist about stability last time I got a script filled. She said should be ok for 1-3 months (which doesnt inspire much confidence) but we agreed next time should would make enough for 2 weeks only. The stuff I am taking now is only recent (1 1/2 week old). the ratio is 1mg=1ml My sleep has never been great and I am finding it hard to budge dalsaan
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#25 Nikki

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

Dalsaan sorry about the sleep deficit. I have that now. Lack of sleep for me compounds problems....from very little ones to big ones. Memory loss too. When you do go to sleep, you are gong to feel much better. Does reading help? When I am very tired and I read during the day I will nod out. I have been doing water aerobics almost every day and it still hasn't knocked me out. Is there something you can take to actually put you to sleep?

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#26 annej

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:08 AM

Hi AnneJ,

I'm not sure what its suspended in. I asked my pharmacist about stability last time I got a script filled. She said should
be ok for 1-3 months (which doesnt inspire much confidence) but we agreed next time should would make enough for 2 weeks only.
The stuff I am taking now is only recent (1 1/2 week old).

the ratio is 1mg=1ml

My sleep has never been great and I am finding it hard to budge

dalsaan


dalsaan,

Mirt is only "partially soluable in water" and I suggest you check with a reliable source - a compounding pharmacist who is a member of one of the recognized compounding associations to double check that your suspension is in the correct medium. The fact that your pharmacist told you that the suspension "should be OK for 1-3 months" is an indicator that she is not familiar with the facts of compounding this drug. Ask her what reference she used to prepare the suspension. There are established protocols for the compounding of mirt (or any other drug that is not fully soluable in water).

Mirt is stable when prepared in a fixed-oil solution (almond oil or other accepted oil) for 30 days - no refrigeration required.

When prepared in a commercially prepared suspending vehicle (contains water) it is stable for 10 days only and must be refrigerated.

I stopped sleeping for 6 entire days after a rapid taper and then cold turkey off of Mirt. I had no other choice but to c/t - I was having severe adverse effects that did not appear for 30 days. I c/t'd it after 2.5 months of use. While I was still off of benzos, my doctor had me try Trazadone 50 mg at night. It worked for me and I slept. Traz works for some and not for others.

Once you are certain your mirt is properly compounded (THIS IS A POTENTIAL PROBLEM IN YOUR CASE) - you may want to consider a slight updose. Some people have found that there sleep remained intact by updosing and then slowing down the rate of taper and doing this over a few years.

The problem commonly seen is having great success going from 30 mg to 15 mg and then getting hit by severe, unrelenting insomnia and/or anxiety when trying to taper from 15 mg or 7.5 mg. This is the level where mirt acts on receptors that are integral to antihistamine production. Tiny, tiny dose reductions, and slowly with the use of a properly compounded suspension or a cheaper way and possibly more precise depending on one's compounding pharmacist, is to dry taper using a scale. :) Hugs, Annej

My Intro
2000-Effexor and Klonopin
April 2011- C/T Adderall, lithium, Seroquel, Lunesta; Pristiq and Klonopin cut by 1/2 due to med-induced "rapid cycling"
May 2011- Pristiq/Lexapro bridge/taper
June, 2011- K cut to 0.5 mg (doctor)
July 18, 2011 - Lexapro done
October 2011- K taper started
Jan, 2012- Off K, Remeron started -bad idea
March 2012- Horrific Tardive Akathisa/TD (Dx: TA versus withdrawal akathisia secondary to K w/d)
May 2012- Reinstatement of K
Current Psych Meds: Klonopin 2 mg + Propanolol 15 mg and titrating up
As of June 2013: TA gone or suppressed - struggling with tolerance to benzos - beta blocker helping


#27 Altostrata

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:05 AM

Compounding pharmacies use centrally published recipes to make suspensions. Dalsaan, your mirtazapine suspension should conform to one of these recipes. The recipes indicate the shelf-life of the compound. Your pharmacist should be able to discuss this with you. I've found it's pretty common for these compounded liquids to last for a couple of months. If you think your compounded pharmacy is sloppy, you should find another one.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#28 dalsaan

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

I tend to think its something other that the mirtazapine compound because I get to sleep but wake up at about 3 am and then that's it. When I have tapered too quickly or gone ct I can't get to sleep at all. So this is better than that but still not enough to support daily functioning. I'm taking tryptophan at bedtime at the moment. Started about 4 days ago. This seems to drop the arousal a but. Maybe I should take it at 3 when I wake up and see if that helps me drop off
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#29 dalsaan

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

Not a great day, ive got really bad pms to go with my usual sleep deprived wd and I feel like I could strangle someone who needs it aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry, just needed to vent
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#30 Barbarannamated

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:40 PM

As long as it's someone who needs it!! LOL!! Oh, y'all make me laugh when I need it most!
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#31 dalsaan

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

My sleep seems to be on the improve. I have started taking taurine 2 mg at night and have cut down coffee to one in the morning, cut out all refined sugar and am on low carb diet. Roughly following the blood sugar diet Will taper off the one coffee as well but have to go a bit slow because I get blinding headaches Overall my system is a lot less aroused and last night I had the best sleep for a long time. Fingers crossed things are turning around
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#32 tezza

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:54 AM

Hi Dalsaan, It's good to hear your sleep is getting better. I tapered a little off Remeron last night by mixing mine with water. I don't have the intestinal fortitude to try breaking it in half. :unsure: You said it was relatively easy to go from 30 down to 15, do you remember the symptoms you experienced with that cut? I mixed 30 mg with 10 ml of water and took off 1 ml. I wish I was brave enough to try halving the tablet like you did; however, I'm doing fairly well at this time and don't want to rock the boat. I sincerely hope and pray for your success! Love, Tezza
http://survivinganti...dal-withdrawal/

Seroquel and Mirtazipine

#33 dalsaan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:55 PM

Hi Tezza. I don't recall any major symptoms going from 30-15. It's always been below 15 that I have trouble with and the lower I go the more trouble I get if I'm not careful. I'm at 9 ml now and will drop 10 percent in about a weeks time. Hope things stay ok for you Take care Dalsaan
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#34 Altostrata

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:58 PM

Good to hear, Dalsaan. When you have a chance, please start a topic about taurine in the Symptoms forum -- how you started it, what kinds of reactions you had, etc.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#35 dalsaan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:13 AM

Well, I spoke a bit too soon. Didn't sleep at all last night, was anxious and teary this morning. Not sure why but it's disappointing. I thought I had turned the corner
Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#36 Nikki

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:25 AM

Dalsaan... giving up sugar is fantastic. Give yourself a huge pat on the back for that. As for coffee, can you switch to decaf, so you aren't putting yourself thru another wd of sorts? The morning anxiety and being teary eyed is a biggy for so many. I think the tears may come from the frustration of having the anxiety. Hugs

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine