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Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques


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#1 stan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:04 AM

ADMIN NOTE Also see


Using an oral syringe to take liquid medication
One way to very gradually taper is to use the liquid form of a medication and take it with a 10 milliliter oral syringe or, for very tiny doses, a 1 milliliter or .5 milliliter oral syringe.

Some psych medications that come in liquid form are:

- Citalopram (Celexa, Seropram)
- Escitalopram (Lexapro)
- Fluoxetine (Prozac)
- Gabapentin (Neurontin)
- Paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

Availability varies in different countries. Please see Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ for information pertaining to your particular drug.

In a pinch, you can make your own liquids from many non-extended release drugs, see How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

Important note about using oral syringes
These are plastic tubes with little nozzles on the end. The little nozzles contain at least .5mL. Measure your dosage by the tickings on the tube, do not add the amount in the nozzle. When you take the medication, push the plunger in to the end of the tube. Don't try to get the last little bit out of the nozzle. Don't rinse your syringe to get this last little bit, it will throw the amount of your dosage off -- you'll be taking more than you intended.

 

If you find your dose is smaller than the ticks on the smallest 1mL or 0.5mL oral syringes,  you can dilute your suspension more (usually with water) so you can draw measurable amounts into your syringe. Please see Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ for information pertaining to your particular drug.

 

 

Images of 1 milliliter oral syringes
seropram002.jpgi cold turkey paxil (1,5 month) , then switched celexa (seropram in France), my problem was the cold turkey and switch, but weaning 11 months was hyper easy

How to use an oral syringe
The syringe fits into a small hole in the bottle cap. Insert the syringe firmly, then turn the bottle upside down to draw a dose from it.

summ.jpg


Edited by Altostrata, 03 May 2016 - 12:27 PM.
updated

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 7 years 2 months med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

muscles pain..fatigue...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrĂ´me...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#2 stan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:21 AM

More 1 milliliter oral syringes: Posted Image

#3 stan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:17 PM

stan, in the first photo, what is the small machine to the left of the oral syringes?

my wrist Blood pressure monitor because when i had severe dysautonomia hormones symptoms ...i looked my pressure to not exceed 150 mmHg, so i not called emergency

Evaluating your blood pressure

Posted Image

Edited by surviving, 06 May 2011 - 11:07 AM.
added heading


#4 Brandy

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:55 PM

I found an image of a 10 mL syringe here 10_mL_oral_syringe

10ml_oral_syringe.jpg

Product feedback [on Amazon] suggests markings don't hold up well with repeated use...

....

I actually probably have just about every kind of syringe there is after taking care of two dying cats plus one who nearly died but survived. (At different times over literally decades, of course.) Some are needled variety where I just removed the needles and disposed of them (responsibly!) but others are oral. I'd have to look for them. As you might expect, although I saved them for various uses that sometimes arise, I put them out of the way and was glad I didn't need them at this time!

I was "TryingToGetWell" (aka TTGW) on paxilprogress. I also was one of the original members here on Surviving Antidepressants

 

I had horrific and protracted withdrawal from paxil, but now am back to enjoying life with enthusiasm to the max, some residual physical symptoms continued but largely improve. The horror, severe derealization, anhedonia, akathisia, and so much more, are long over.

 

My signature is a temporary scribble from year 2013. I'll rewrite it when I can.

 

If you want to read it, click on http://survivinganti...nyone/?p=110343


#5 Altostrata

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:56 PM

I found an image of a 10 mL syringe here 10_mL_oral_syringe

Product feedback [on Amazon] suggests markings don't hold up well with repeated use....


Where to get oral syringes
Many pharmacies carry the larger oral syringe and, as Brandy implies, veterinarians carry them, too, to give animals medication.

Compounding pharmacies will have a wider range of oral syringes.

They cost very little; most pharmacies will give them to you gratis.

What size oral syringe to get
The larger 10 mL syringe can measure out dosages as small as .2 mg; the small 1 mL syringe (see the second post in this topic) can measure out dosages as small as .01 mL.

There are also .5mL oral syringes, measuring as small as .01 mL.

All fit into a cap in the bottle as shown in the first post.

What brand of oral syringe to get
The Monoject syringe in the photo above is just one brand of oral syringe. There are many brands available.

In the US, Becton-Dickinson (B-D) oral syringes are widely available. They hold up through repeated uses (wash with hot water) but the markings are a little smeary.

My preferred oral syringe, Exactamed, is made by Baxa. The markings are clear and it holds up longer through repeated washings than the others. It comes in 10mL, 5mL, 3mL, 1mL, and .5mL sizes. Baxa Exactament oral syringes may be hard to find; Baxa will sends pharmacists or medical personnel free samples, see http://survivinganti...dpost__p__38431

Edited by Altostrata, 18 December 2012 - 09:08 AM.
updated

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#6 Healing

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 08:10 AM

Hunh. I started my taper in 2003 cutting, and finished it in 2005 with a syringe, and have been reading about this stuff for years, and I don't remember ever thinking about using a pipette! Great idea, Rhi! ;)
1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...
1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...
2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...
Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms
Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended
Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

#7 Altostrata

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:20 AM

Where do you get a pipette? Is it marked with measuring ticks? If you can find a photo, please post it in this topic.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#8 summer

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:57 PM

I'm wondering if it's better than using a syringe??

4/5/13 - 0mg Celexa - .5 xanax at night

11/13 - Wellbutrin - 300mg - .5 xanax

4/1/15 - Wellbutrin - 150mg         "

 

Charter Member 2011


#9 Altostrata

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 04:45 AM

Getting your medication made into a liquid or smaller capsules for easier tapering

Compounding pharmacies are special pharmacies that can make most drugs into liquids or capsules containing custom dosages. This can be expensive but if you need to taper by a tiny amount, you may want to do this. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounding

Use Google to find other compounding pharmacies near you. There are mail-order compounding pharmacies, too. See Compounding pharmacies (US, UK, and elsewhere)

 

All compounding pharmacies need a prescription written by a doctor specifying the compound, e.g. "100 milligrams in 100 milliliters liquid. Take 10mL (10mg) twice a day."


Edited by Altostrata, 21 June 2015 - 02:04 PM.
updated

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#10 Altostrata

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:03 AM

Using gelatin capsules to divide doses

 

Some people report success with dividing contents of capsules into smaller amounts. This is easier when the contents are granules or pellets rather than powder.

 

The technique, which requires a steady hand, is:

 

1) Purchase empty gelatin (or vegetarian equivalent) capsules at a health food store, herbal medicine store, or online (Puritan's Pride carries empty capsules with free shipping). Get the largest size you can find: 000 or 00 are best; they will be easiest for you to manipulate. (For capsule sizes, see http://www.torpac.co...size_chart.htm)

 

2) Open as many empty capsules as you intend to use.

 

3) Open a medication capsule by grasping it at both ends and gently twisting it. It should come apart in the middle.

 

4) Carefully pour the contents of the medication capsule onto a creased piece of clean black or dark paper. The fold will help keep beads from rolling around. The dark color makes them easier to see and count.

 

5) Using a knife or other straight edge, divide the pellets evenly into two, three, or four groups by eye. You may wish to count pellets. (Note: If you are especially sensitive to variations in dosage, use a digital electronic scale to measure the doses more precisely.)

 

6) With an empty gelatin capsule, carefully scoop up one pile. Put the cap on the capsule. Repeat with other piles.

 

7) Put the divided doses into a clean medicine bottle marked with the dosage.


Edited by Altostrata, 06 January 2015 - 06:24 PM.
added to instructions

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#11 alexjuice

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 06:15 AM

[moved Alex.I's reply to http://survivinganti..._post&f=3&t=309 back to its home!]

ABOUT TITRATING POWDERED MEDICATIONS

Also, you probably want to consider a more precise measure of titrating your dose than it sounds like you are doing. The benzo forums do a good job of explaining how to do this with benzos, and the principles should largely be the same. (NOTE: I have liquid titrated benzos but not ADs so I don't speak from experience.) In any event, to look at the recommended methods, I'd check out these two ytube videos:



There is also a thread on benzobuddies.org:
http://www.benzobudd...hp?topic=6393.0

I need to add that I think it is important that you get more information on the matter from people on this site or elsewhere with specific experience titrating ADs rather than benzos. I only post to the benzo boards because, in my experience, liquid titration is more common with those drugs. Others may disagree. So I reiterate my recommendation to gather more info.

My unsolicited advice is that patience is a virtue. You have nothing to lose but a little time by taking your time. And a lot to lose by trying to quickfix. I say this as someone who has suffered greatly after rushing.

Again, welcome Phil...

Alex.I

Edited by surviving, 13 May 2011 - 02:19 PM.
added intro, moved reply to other topic

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#12 alexjuice

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 01:58 PM

I mentioned in the other thread that benzos don't dissolve in milk. As it turns out, I think that, being fat-soluble, they would dissolve in whole milk. So I was wrong... Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#13 Altostrata

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 02:19 PM

Also, we must note not all drugs can be mixed in liquids. Some deteriorate upon contact. To see if you can make a solution of your medication, try Googling the name of the medication and solubility. There may be some studies that will tell you what liquid the medication may be dissolved in and how long it will be stable after you make a solution of it.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#14 Altostrata

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:16 AM

Check the concentration of a liquid form of a medication

If you get the prescription liquid, always look on the label to check the concentration of the liquid you get as it can vary among manufacturers, and adjust your dosage calculations accordingly.

For example: A liquid might contain 5mg of the drug in 1mL, a 5:1 concentration. To take 1mg, take .20mL (1/5 of a milliliter).

Edited by Altostrata, 11 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.
updated

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#15 Rhiannon

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:47 AM

Also, we must note not all drugs can be mixed in liquids. Some deteriorate upon contact.

To see if you can make a solution of your medication, try Googling the name of the medication and solubility. There may be some studies that will tell you what liquid the medication may be dissolved in and how long it will be stable after you make a solution of it.


The medication doesn't necessarily have to dissolve or be soluble in whatever you're titrating it in. Of the five meds I take using liquid titration, only two are actually soluble in anything you can drink.

As long as it forms a suspension and you can keep the suspension uniformly mixed while you measure out your dose (or the part you're removing from your dose) the liquid method will work.

(None of the benzos, for example, are soluble in anything you can drink, but people use liquid titration for benzos successfully.)

Alto, I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I really doubt that drugs are so chemically unstable that they would deteriorate on contact with liquid. I can't imagine it. All drugs have to be chemically stable enough that they won't break down while they're being administered, either orally or via IV. They need to be absorbed chemically intact. Bodies are big sacks of liquid.

There may be some exceptions, some kinds of drugs that are designed to break down in the stomach and be absorbed in some kind of broken-down form. That's something a pharmacist would know about. It might be Google-able.

Not to say that they might not deteriorate if left in the liquid for a long enough period of time. Especially in heat or sunlight. Probably would.

What might deteriorate are the binders and fillers in the pill, which are designed to break down once they hit the stomach.

I'm working on writing up a simplified liquid titration method, will get that together soon. Having some problems with postviral fatigue and nausea right now.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#16 Rhiannon

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:01 PM

I mentioned in the other thread that benzos don't dissolve in milk. As it turns out, I think that, being fat-soluble, they would dissolve in whole milk. So I was wrong...

Alex


The term "fat-soluble" is misleading. It doesn't mean that a drug will dissolve in fat. If it did, we'd all be liquid titrating our drugs in olive oil.

"Fat-soluble" is the usual translation of the obscure chemical term "lipophilic." It means the molecule doesn't carry a partial charge, so it's not attracted to water molecules and tends to be pushed aside by them, hence tending to clump up with other lipophilic molecules that are doing the same thing.

I have to run now but I'll get back to this, please remind me. Basically, regarding titration using milk, some people swear by it, and I did find a Google reference to an article about Valium molecules (which are lipophilic) adhering to (or clumping up with) microscopic particles of fat (which you would find in homogenized milk) so there may be something to it.

I prefer water because (a) you can see your suspension and ensure, visually, that it's uniform; and (B) for me, personally, since I dose two of my meds every three hours and have to carry them around with me, milk would be yuck.

Gotta go, more later, ask questions...?

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#17 Rhiannon

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 01:17 AM

Thanks for that additional knowledge, Rhi! Your knowledge abouthow to handle titrating drugs is definitely welcome here.

Stability is definitely a problem, though. Can you keep a mixture for 2 days? an hour? 15 minutes?

There are some drugs that cannot be mixed in liquids: Cymbalta, for one, because it needs to be protected from stomach acids (that's what the coating on the pellets is for).

Other drugs might be damaged by, say, the acid in orange juice.

I always see if I can find solubility info for a particular drug by Googling

[drug chemical name] solubility

Yeah, stability is probably the most unknown factor. I think you can safely assume it'll be stable long enough to measure out your dose. A lot of folks tapering benzos will make up the day's liquid and then drink from it at intervals through the day over 24 hours. It seems to work. But that's to cover interdose withdrawal. Is i/d w/d an issue with ADs? I just take my Celexa once a day.

Remember that just because something isn't soluble doesn't mean you can't liquid taper it. As long as the glues holding the pill together will dissolve and allow the pill to turn into a liquid suspension in water, if you keep it evenly stirred up while you measure, you can taper it. The actual drug chemical itself doesn't necessarily have to be dissolved. It just needs to be uniformly dispersed.

Something else you can't liquid titrate, besides the capsules with pellets, is an extended-release tablet.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#18 Altostrata

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:46 AM

Most antidepressants are once a day. Some people have to take regular Effexor or Wellbutrin twice a day. Do you have any tricks about keeping the suspension even while you're measuring it out?
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#19 Rhiannon

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:23 PM

Just stir it up before you start to draw it up and then draw it up quickly past where you are measuring to, and then push out down to the line you're measuring to. It's not going to settle out quickly enough to be a problem. The turbidity of the solution will give you a visual cue as to how well mixed it is, but what you're seeing are the large particles of filler, not the actual clumps and molecules of the drug, which will settle out much more slowly because of their size. So give it a good stir and then draw it up fast while it's still looking all cloudy and mixed up and you should be fine.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#20 Rhiannon

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:41 PM

I just wanted to add, for anyone discouraged by the videos further up in this thread, liquid titration really doesn't have to be that complicated.

 

I haven't found a pill yet that won't dissolve in water if you let it sit there for a while, so you can dispense with all the crushing and blending business, and really you'll get a smoother suspension if you just let the glues and binders dissolve like that. And you won't be losing as much of the drug to the various surfaces it's exposed to (best to expose it to the minimum number of different surfaces because some will always adhere to anything that touches it).

 

I dissolve my Celexa tablet (it does have to sit a while, maybe ten or fifteen minutes) in water plus a little ethanol (you can skip the ethanol though). I dissolve it in a shot glass. I draw up the now-dissolved contents with a pipette, then put the pipette in a jar of water and draw up enough more water to make 10 mL. I add another 10 mL of water for a total of 20 mL.

 

I stir the mixture with the pipette then quickly draw up my dose for the day and then take it. Then I throw away the rest.

 

This could be adapted to use syringes instead of pipettes. Basically they're the same thing, pipettes are just bigger and easier to read.

 

You can also dissolve the pill in a small amount of water in the bottom of a graduated cylinder, then add water up to whatever total amount you're using, stir, and draw out the amount you're going to "toss" and toss it; then take what's left in the cylinder, then rinse the cylinder well and drink the rinse water.

 

The most important thing is to do it the same way every time.

 

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT: When beginning to use liquid titration, just the fact that you're going from dry cutting to liquid is going to be a cut in itself. There's no way to do this without losing some amount of drug that sticks to the various surfaces you're working with. So don't try to cut when you start to titrate; start the titration at your full dose, and once you've adjusted to the cut, begin to cut down.

 

If any of this is unclear please feel free to say so and I'll try to make it more clear. I think it's well worth the trouble, personally, because I can cut my Celexa 0.05 mg at a time, easily.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#21 alexjuice

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:08 PM


I mentioned in the other thread that benzos don't dissolve in milk. As it turns out, I think that, being fat-soluble, they would dissolve in whole milk. So I was wrong...

Alex

The term "fat-soluble" is misleading. It doesn't mean that a drug will dissolve in fat. If it did, we'd all be liquid titrating our drugs in olive oil.


Ha. That's funny. I'm not a chemistry buff, if not apparent. This is really too bad, considering...

I used water for titrating Klonopin (brand) very effectively.

Re pipettes:

I used a disposable straw as a pipette since I could not find pipettes for sale anywhere except in bulk. I would submerge a bit of the straw in the suspension (well agitated) and create a vacuum by covering the tip w/ finger. Lift straw, swivel, hold over empty cup, lift finger... fluid drops out. Worked fine. And straws are free at any McDonalds around the world.

Alex.i

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#22 Rhiannon

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:41 AM

:-) glad you liked it, you have cracked me up so many times I'm glad I made you smile. Pipettes for sale except in bulk: websites for people doing science fair experiments for their kids! (I know, supposedly kids doing science fair experiments, but if you're a parent you know how THAT goes, and don't get me started on how stupid it is to force 8-year-olds to come up with science experiments when their brains aren't yet developed enough to think concretely). http://www.thesciencefair.com/ and I think there are others.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#23 picklet

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:43 PM

Here's a great little trick for tapering, that I learnt from a homeopathic doctor: It's for tablets. You just get a nail file and do one little stroke with it from the side of the tablet. Do this for one week before each dose Next week do - wait for ! - TWO strokes with the file, again for one week. And so on. Very slow and gentle. All the Best with that!

#24 Altostrata

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:19 PM

There is such a lot of interest in the digital electronic scale, I made it its own topic here http://survivinganti...ch__1#entry6765
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#25 Altostrata

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

About the tiny 1mL oral syringe:

The 1mL oral syringe should have ticks at .02mL (5 ticks between 10ths) or .01mL (10 ticks between 10ths).

The Becton Dickinson 1mL oral syringe is marked at .02mL. The Danish-made Baxa Exacta-Med 1mL oral syringe is marked for .01mL.

Oral syringes may be found at pharmacies, veterinary offices, or medical supply stores. I've always gotten them for no charge from my pharmacy. They should be less than U$.25 if you have to pay for them.

It's always good to have a few of them, so you can wash them and let them dry between uses.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#26 Rhiannon

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

One of these days I do want to make a video. I will need help though, I don't even have a camera. But my daughter and son-in-law might be able to help me. I would like to get syringes so I can show people how they can do it using syringes too and not necessarily pipettes. Pipettes are what I use. Anyway, yes, one of these days I hope to do this.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#27 moses

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:42 AM

I was wondering how long it would take to feel withdrawal after a dose decrease? Thanks, Rosie
2009 Efexor 75mg tapered twice
November 2011 Pristiq 50 mg
January 2012 Pristiq 100 mg, became very dizzy and anxious with a lot negative thinking! Ear aches, eye pain, headaches, bruxism, night sweats.
Currently on 30 mg of compounded Pristiq

#28 Nikki

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:27 AM

Hi Moses.... I would ususally feel it within 2-3 days from Lexapro. With Impramine it was less. Anxieity/insomnia would kick in for me withthing that time frame. Pickelt: what a marvelous idea with using the nail file. Hugs

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#29 Altostrata

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

I just got .5mL syringes from my compounding pharmacy. Wow, are they tiny, but with very clear markings. Made by the Danish company Baxa.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#30 Altostrata

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:57 AM

Note: Solubility is not that important. For more detail, see http://survivinganti...ts-or-capsules/

About making a liquid from your medication

Many medications are soluble in water. To find out if you can make a DIY liquid from your medication, and how long the medication will last if you put it in water, use the search box up above in the right corner to look for our topic on it or Google

medicationname solubility water

medicationname stability water

You can make a liquid from many medications:

1) Measure out the amount of water you'll need in milliliters with an oral syringe. Put the water in a small, clean clear wide-mouth container with a tight cap, such as a brown or green plastic medicine container.

Do NOT use juice. Use water so you can see how well the particles are mixed in the water.

2) Crush a tablet by cutting it up and then crushing it into a powder with the back of a spoon. Do this on a piece of plastic or paper so you don't lose the particles.

You can open a capsule by grasping both ends and twisting gently. The capsule is in two parts and will open in the middle.

3) Carefully put the powder into the water. Put the cap on tightly and shake.

The particles may not dissolve well, floating around in the liquid. This is called a suspension rather than a solution. Make sure the particles are evenly distributed throughout the liquid.

4) Using an oral syringe, withdraw your dosage from the middle of the liquid.



Another way to have your medication made into a liquid is to have a compounding pharmacy make it for you -- but they will need a prescription from your doctor.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#31 Altostrata

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:12 PM

How to find oral syringes

Your local pharmacy probably has oral syringes. They are used to give medications to infants. They will give these away if you ask for one. They may also have more expensive oral syringes in packages for sale, in the area where they have pill cutters and pill boxes.

Those oral syringes may not be what you need. They may be too large or the markings may not be precise enough. The clear oral syringes are best, it can be hard to see small liquid doses in the colored ones, which may be amber or green.

Oral syringes come in .5mL, 1mL, 3mL, 5mL, 10mL etc. sizes, from various manufacturers. Two manufacturers I've seen who make good oral syringes are Becton-Dickenson (BD) and Baxa, a Danish company. (The Baxa oral syringes have more detailed markings.)

One oral syringe costs the pharmacy less than U$.20.

A one-milliliter (1mL) oral syringe is the same as a needle-less slip tip syringe. (Slip tip rather than lock tip.)

Where you can get oral syringes:
  • Your local pharmacy
  • If you are getting medicines compounded, from your compounding pharmacy
  • If you are not getting medicines compounded, find a compounding pharmacy in your town and buy some from them
  • Veterinarians. They use oral syringes to give medication to animals.
  • Medical supply stores
  • Web sites. You may need to buy in bulk, for example, a 10-pack http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top or a box of 100. (If you buy too many, share the new, unused ones with our members.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#32 Altostrata

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:17 PM

How to care for an oral syringe

These plastic syringes are disposable, but they can last a long time. I've had Becton-Dickinson and Baxa oral syringes; the markings wear off only after many months of use.

Rinsing with warm water is sufficient for daily use.

Make sure you put the oral syringe somewhere to dry before using it the next time, or the water left in it will throw measurements off.

It's good to have a few oral syringes to rotate, to let them dry.

Every week or so, I wash them by rinsing them out with a little soap and very hot water, and letting them air-dry.

They're not sterilized to begin with, they do not have to be boiled or purified for your own reuse. Just make sure to clean them occasionally with soap and hot water. I wouldn't put them in the dish washer.

If the markings wear off, rinse them and recycle them with plastics, or use for crafts to apply glue, etc.

Edited by Altostrata, 11 April 2013 - 09:05 AM.
updated and expanded

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#33 Altostrata

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

How to use an oral syringe

From the UK site netdoctor.co.uk

http://www.netdoctor...oralsyringe.htm

....An oral syringe is a measuring device used to accurately measure small doses of liquid medicine, which are then given to your child by mouth.

You will be given the following pieces of equipment.

  • A bung or stopper with a hole through the centre that fits in the top of the medicine bottle.
  • A plastic oral syringe with a measuring scale on it. This will normally have a line marked on it to indicate how much medicine you need to give.

Note for US readers: A bung is a cork with a hole in the middle. I get a blue plastic cap with a hole in it from my compounding pharmacy to put on the medication bottle. It does the same thing.

Syringes come in various sizes. The most common sizes are 1ml, 2.5ml and 5ml syringes, but you can get 10ml and larger syringes. Liquid medicine doses are often expressed in terms of millilitres or ml. ....

How to use an oral syringe

  • If the medicine is a suspension the label will remind you to shake the bottle.
  • Remove the lid and push the bung firmly into the top of the bottle.
  • Push the tip of the oral syringe into the hole in the bung.
  • Turn the bottle upside down.
  • Pull the plunger of the syringe back so that the medicine is drawn from the bottle into the syringe. Pull the plunger back to the point on the scale that corresponds to the dose prescribed....If you are at all confused about how much medicine to draw into the syringe, ask your pharmacist or doctor to clarify this for you.

    [IMPORTANT note: The solution you have drawn into the syringe may have air bubbles in it. With the syringe still stuck in the bottle, pump the syringe a couple of times until you draw a dose of liquid with no bubbles.]
  • Turn the bottle back the right way up and carefully remove the syringe from the bung, holding it by the barrel rather than the plunger.

THEN open your mouth, aim the syringe towards the middle of your tongue, and gently push the plunger down, depositing the medication in your mouth. Swallow.

Don't push too forcibly on the plunger or the liquid might splash out of your mouth and you won't get your full dose.

I then put the oral syringe in a glass of water, pump the plunger a couple of times to get all the medication out of the syringe, and drink the water -- because I want to be precise about my dosage.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#34 Nikki

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:31 AM

How do I get the bubbles out of my oral syringe? I shake the bottle of liquid Celexa. Do I need to do that? It does cause bubbles in the syringe. When that happens I empty the syringe and start again. Last night I didn't and I felt 'not so good' this morning. Anxiety came back and my head bothered me. I am thinking that if there is a bubble or two I would actually be decreasing more than what I intended to do. I am now down to 3/5 of mL. Slowly approaching the 4mL mark on the syringe which will be 2mgs. leaving me at 38mgs. Can't wait to get there. I do know from this taper that tiny cuts and a good respite between doses is the best route. We live and learn.....sometimes the hard way <_<

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#35 Altostrata

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:46 AM

How do I get the bubbles out of my oral syringe?

Look at the instructions for your liquid medication. Do they say it needs to be shaken? If not, don't do it -- this will make it frothy and bubbles will end up in your oral syringe.
  • If you are drawing from a bottle having a cap with a hole in it (upside-down method, see http://survivinganti...ndpost__p__2284 :

    - Draw more liquid than you need into the oral syringe. If it has bubbles in it,

    - Pump the plunger on the syringe until the liquid you've drawn into the syringe has no bubbles or only a few tiny ones. Pumping the plunger sends the bubbles back into the bottle, where they will float upward, leaving less bubbly solution for you to draw from.

    - Gently push the plunger to your desired dosage.
  • If you are drawing from a small container or jar with no cap:

    - Draw more liquid than you need into the oral syringe. If it has bubbles in it,

    - Hold the syringe upright. The bubbles will tend to float towards the tip.

    - The bubbles may "stick" to the sides of the syringe. Gently snap the syringe with your fingernail (like you see nurses do on TV) until the bubbles have floated to the tip.

    - Holding the syringe upright over a container or sink, gently push the plunger to your desired dosage. Some of the liquid will dribble or spurt out. Shake the syringe gently to dislodge any drops sticking to the outside of the syringe.

    - Shoot the medication into your mouth.

Edited by Altostrata, 03 May 2013 - 10:52 AM.
updated and expanded

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#36 Nikki

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:00 PM

I am feeling different in a WD type of way, so the bubbles must have made a difference. Will stay at this dose for a while to let it all pass... Thank you

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine