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Amino acids for sleep - rotate aminos to avoid poop-out


Altostrata

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A sleep medicine specialist suggested I take glycine for sleep. He said it diverts cortisol to more constructive purposes than alerting, among other things. I've been taking 500mg for more than a month; it doesn't seem to having much effect, good or bad. Perhaps it takes a few grams.

 

J Pharmacol Sci. 2012;118(2):145-8. Epub 2012 Jan 27.

New therapeutic strategy for amino acid medicine: glycine improves the quality of sleep.

Bannai M, Kawai N.

Source

 

Frontier Research Laboratories, Institute for Innovation, Ajinomoto Co., Inc., Japan. makoto_bannai@ajinomoto.com

 

Abstract and free full text at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22293292

 

Glycine is a non-essential amino acid that has indispensable roles in both excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmission via N-methyl-D-aspartate type glutamate receptors and glycine receptors, respectively. We recently reported that glycine ingestion before bedtime significantly ameliorated subjective sleep quality in individuals with insomniac tendencies. Oral administration of glycine to rats was found to induce a significant increase in the plasma and cerebrospinal fluid glycine concentrations and a significant decrease in the core body temperature associated with an increase in cutaneous blood flow. The decline in the core body temperature might be a mechanism underlying glycine's effect on sleep, as the onset of sleep is known to involve a decrease in the core body temperature. Moreover, a low core body temperature is maintained during sleep in humans. Pharmacological studies investigating the mechanisms of glycine on sleep were also performed. In this review, we will describe both our recent findings regarding how and where orally administered glycine acts and findings from our rat study and human trials.

 

 

Front Neurol. 2012;3:61. Epub 2012 Apr 18.

The effects of glycine on subjective daytime performance in partially sleep-restricted healthy volunteers.

Bannai M, Kawai N, Ono K, Nakahara K, Murakami N.

 

Source

 

Frontier Research Labs, Institute for Innovation, Ajinomoto Co., Inc. Kanagawa, Japan.

Abstract and free full text at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22529837

 

Approximately 30% of the general population suffers from insomnia. Given that insomnia causes many problems, amelioration of the symptoms is crucial. Recently, we found that a non-essential amino acid, glycine subjectively and objectively improves sleep quality in humans who have difficulty sleeping. We evaluated the effects of glycine on daytime sleepiness, fatigue, and performances in sleep-restricted healthy subjects. Sleep was restricted to 25% less than the usual sleep time for three consecutive nights. Before bedtime, 3 g of glycine or placebo were ingested, sleepiness, and fatigue were evaluated using the visual analog scale (VAS) and a questionnaire, and performance were estimated by personal computer (PC) performance test program on the following day. In subjects given glycine, the VAS data showed a significant reduction in fatigue and a tendency toward reduced sleepiness. These observations were also found via the questionnaire, indicating that glycine improves daytime sleepiness and fatigue induced by acute sleep restriction. PC performance test revealed significant improvement in psychomotor vigilance test. We also measured plasma melatonin and the expression of circadian-modulated genes expression in the rat suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) to evaluate the effects of glycine on circadian rhythms. Glycine did not show significant effects on plasma melatonin concentrations during either the dark or light period. Moreover, the expression levels of clock genes such as Bmal1 and Per2 remained unchanged. However, we observed a glycine-induced increase in the neuropeptides arginine vasopressin and vasoactive intestinal polypeptide in the light period. Although no alterations in the circadian clock itself were observed, our results indicate that glycine modulated SCN function. Thus, glycine modulates certain neuropeptides in the SCN and this phenomenon may indirectly contribute to improving the occasional sleepiness and fatigue induced by sleep restriction.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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It may have been the glycine in magnesium glycinate that caused problems for me when I tried magnesium. Glycine may have different effects in withdrawal than in the healthy subjects tested. The study is very interesting to me, though, because the SSRI withdrawal left me feeling chilled during rest or sleep, and magnesium glycinate worsened my withdrawal-related sleep problems.

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Interesting, I didn't think of that effect. Maybe it does cool me down, which is a good thing because often when I wake up, I'm very hot.

 

Lower body temperature is supposed to be good for sleep. But maybe it was too much for you, Georgia.

 

If I didn't have all that mag citrate, I might get mag glycinate.

 

What was the dosage of mag glycinate you took? Maybe the mag part caused the paradoxical reaction.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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From an interesting article on sleep at http://holisticprimarycare.net/topics/topics-o-z/vitamins-a-supplements/1249-a-new-approach-to-promoting-healthy-sleep-

 

....

Glycine: A New Drug-Free Option

 

Glycine, a naturally-occurring non-essential amino acid, is a new addition to the spectrum of non-pharmaceutical options for people with disordered sleep, especially those prone to waking up in the middle of the night. In high concentrations, it promotes the prolongation of stage 3-4 sleep in the first sleep cycle and prevents sleep fragmentation, without sedative or hypnotic effects.

 

....

When someone is hot, he or she tends to run through sleep cycles more rapidly and more frequently than when someone is cool (There's wisdom in the old folklore that it's wise to sleep with the windows open!). Glycine reliably produces this core temperature change in a way that promotes better sleep quality. It won't necessarily get someone to sleep faster, but it will enable him to enter into and stay in the restorative deep sleep phases for longer periods.

 

Ajinomoto's Dr. Bannai, who has been involved in several glycine studies, said that this amino acid has an affinity for the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), which is the brain's master circadian switchboard. "By maintaining the low core body temperature during sleep, glycine increases sleep stability, and improves sleep quality. The sleep-restorative effects appear as a tertiary benefit."

 

....

Compared with subjects taking the placebo, those taking glycine had more frequent segments of deep sleep, fewer episodes waking after sleep onset, and shortened time to first appearance of Stage 2 and Stage 3 non-REM sleep. The time of transition from non-REM to REM periods was not altered (Yamadera W, et al. Sleep and Biological Rhythms. 2007; 5: 126-131).

 

Greater Sleep Satisfaction

 

Glycine-treated subjects reached Stage 2 in a mean of approximately 10 min, compared with 25 min in the placebo group; they reached Stage 3-4 within 35 min versus 55 min. This translated subjectively into greater satisfaction with sleep, less trouble falling asleep, and better sleep "efficacy" (amount of total time-in-bed actually spent sleeping). Evaluation of daytime cognitive function showed that glycine reduced sleepiness, and improved performance on memory tasks.

 

The Yamadera study built on earlier work by Inagawa who reported on the effect of bedtime ingestion of 3 g glycine in 15 women (aged 24-53 years). All had histories of sleep problems, and scores of 6 or greater on the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index. In this protocol, subjects took glycine one hour before bed on Monday-Thursday night, then took nothing on Friday-Sunday. The following week they were given a similarly flavored & colored placebo.

 

Assessment of sleep quality and daytime fatigue showed a consistent pattern of improved energy, greater sense of waking refreshed, and clear-headedness when subjects were taking glycine There were no changes in sleep time, suggesting that the observed benefits reflected better sleep quality. This study did not include polysomnographic evaluation (Inagawa K, et al. Sleep and Biological Rhythms. 2006; 4: 75-77: 20-32).

 

....

Glycine is found naturally in beef, poultry, fish and seafood. The amount in a nightly dose of Glysom is equivalent to that of 10 large sea scallops or shrimps. Though glycine can be absorbed from food, it would be difficult on an ordinary diet to absorb enough to saturate the blood. At saturation levels, glycine readily crosses the blood brain barrier via passive diffusion. A supplemental dose of 3 g before bed readily accomplishes this.

 

There were no adverse effects associated with ingestion of supplemental glycine in either of the two clinical studies. Inagawa's team published a study of 12 healthy volunteers who took as much as 9 g/day (thrice the recommended Glysom dose). There were no serious adverse effects, the most significant being soft stools and minor abdominal pain. Moreover, there was no daytime sleepiness or grogginess (Inagawa K, et al. Seikatsu Eisei Journal of Urban Living & Health Association. 2006; 50 (1).

 

A study by US researchers showed no adverse effects from glycine doses as high as 30 g/day (Garlick PJ. J Nutr. 2004; 134: 1633S-1639S).

 

Because it has an entirely distinct mechanism of action, glycine is not likely to interfere with other sleep aids....

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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I take mag glycinate 200mgs before bed and sleep good

2006-2012 50mgs zoloft
skipped doses every other day for a year and started having anxiety again in March 2012
back on at 50mgs Dec 2013
started taper from benzos April 2014 per Heather Ashton method (c/o from kpin to diazepam)
March 2015 started 1.25mg lorazepam
Tapered off Zoloft in May off in 4 weeks...5 weeks later crashing AGAIN. Dr wanted to start Gabapentin tried it 7 days
Symptoms :burning eyes, anxiety, pounding heart, dizzy, strange head feeling, internal shaking, Overall UNWELL
Taking lorazepam 1.25mg daily

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I take glycine daily. I am taking it for liver benefits. I also am taking 3mg a day. Ideally I am supposed to take 1mg in the morning and 2mg at bed, which I've not been doing but spacing it 3x daily between meals. After reading this I will try to take a more concentrated dose at bedtime to see if I get a sleep benefit.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I would be interested to hear how you go with that Alex. I've recently posted that I feel too hot at night and wondered about the relationship with sleep

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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I slept well last night after taking 2mg glycine. I was up very late but my sleep schedule has been entirely thrown off. When I went to bed, I fell asleep fairly quickly and slept for about eight hours. I'll try again tonight.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Thanks for the update Alexe. How does that compare with your usual experience of sleep in terms of quality and quantity?

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Thanks for the update Alexe. How does that compare with your usual experience of sleep in terms of quality and quantity?

 

Dalsaan

 

The up-late part is pretty standard, at least recently. However, usually I lie in bed for a long time before falling asleep. By long time I mean at least 2 hours often 6 or more. So that was the main area of improvement, falling asleep pretty quickly after getting into bed. I usually get resonable quantity of sleep at least 5 or 6 hours, more often 7-8 or more. But I typically have a hard time feeling rested when I do wake and wish I could sleep more. I felt more rested after last night.

 

I'll continue to load the glycine before bed, ideally backing up my bedtime if possible. Since I've been back from Maine I haven't been able to keep a proper sleep schedule. I've had many entirely sleepness nights, nights of very bad quality or very short sleep, whatever. But no matter, if I get into bed at 11pm, I almost always lie there for hours, often with rapid heart rate, waiting for sleep. The dawn comes before I fall asleep often enough. Sometimes I stay up into the afternoon if I have a morning appointment ... So my sleep definitely needs improvement.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Last night, I was inspired to add glycine to my middle-of-the-night kit -- when I woke up between 3-4 (as usual), I took 1 fish oil capsule, 1 81mg aspirin, 200mg mag glycinate, plus 1 500mg glycine capsule. It did seem to help me get more sleep in the early morning.

 

(I also take 2mg melatonin at nightfall and 2 fish oil capsules, 500mg extended-release vitamin C, 200mg mag glycinate, 100mg niacinamide, and 1 500mg glycine capsule before bed, supposedly to calm my nervous system down.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Ok so I got some glycine powder. I took 3grm last night and slept from 11-3.30. Which is pretty big for me. My partner said I was snoring like a freight train

 

But I have a question. The powder I've got is really sweet. Do you think I can dissolve it in water and drink it rather than eat the powder

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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You are motivating me to give this a try. It will be interesting to see if this helps me stay asleep on my apap machine longer than 3 hours. I will keep you all posted.

 

I am glad it has worked for folks and hopefully, your success continues.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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That's impressive, dalsaan.

 

Glycine is soluble in water. Like all amino acids, it occurs in foods with water. I would say you can dissolve it and drink it.

 

Although glycine tastes sweet, it may be good for blood sugar control: http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=21751

 

Fun facts from http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-glycine.htm

 

Glycine has a number of benefits. In addition to breaking down glucose and fats, some research has shown that it can inhibit the neurotransmitters that cause bipolar disorder, hyperactivity, and seizures. It also plays an important role in the biosynthesis of heme, an important part of hemoglobin. As a result, it plays an essential role in maintaining both a healthy central nervous system and a healthy digestive system. It has also been thought to play an antioxidant role in protecting against some forms of cancer. Glycine’s effects can, however, be blocked with the chemical strychnine. Doing so can result in muscle spasms, arrested breathing, and seizures.

 

While it is essential for a healthy, functioning digestive system, and though it has other health benefits, it’s not an essential part of the human diet. This is because the human body can produce the compound on its own using two naturally-produced chemicals — serine and threonine. Glycine can also be manufactured synthetically, however, by treating chloroacetic acid with ammonia.

 

Dietary sources of glycine include high-protein foods such as meats, fish, dairy, and beans. Synthetically-produced supplements are available in the form of capsules or powders, and have been used to treat conditions such as schizophrenia, stroke, memory problems and prostate issues. These supplements are also commonly marketed to treat low energy and fatigue caused by hypoglycemia, anemia and chronic fatigue syndrome. Commercially, it has been used as an animal feed additive, as a sweetener and taste enhancer in food and beverage products, as a buffering agent in antacids and cosmetics, in fertilizers, and in solutions for irrigation.

Also see Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto, last night wasn't as good but there could have been other factors involved (Like the glass of wine I have with dinner) I will keep trying it over the next week of so and report on how I go.

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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wine really stuffs me up - i can handle one glass (only a small one) but if i go for a second my sleep is really fractured - i feel like i am awake most of the night, but know that i am asleep too because i have weird dreams. I have only just started to recognise the link between poor sleep and wine. I know i should avoid it all together, but it's so hard when the rest of the household are drinking!!!

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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I tried using 2gms to get back to sleep but like alot of other supplements I have tried, it gave me about 45 worthless minutes. Not disappointed because I didn't buy it for that purpose.

 

Still want to try some other things in an attempt to get my pap therapy to work. But at some point, I will try taking it before I go to sleep to see what the results would be.

 

CS

 

PS - It seemed to cause nasal stuffiness so I hope that was just a fluke.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I believe glycine is one of those things that if you take too much, it is stimulating rather than snoozifying.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I believe glycine is one of those things that if you take too much, it is stimulating rather than snoozifying.

 

Thanks Alto.

 

If I decide to try it again, I will take a 1/4 to half the starting dose.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I tried it again last night (without the wine on board). I feel more rested this morning. An obvious improvement in the quantity and quality of my sleep

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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dalsaan, where did you get the glycine from and what was it called?

 

might try some tonight if i can get it

 

thanks

peggy

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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Hi Peggy,

 

I just got it from a shop selling vitamins and supplements. I can remember what brand it is, will look tonight

when I get home from work

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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thanks dalsaan, it's Ok, i went to GoVita and they had some - both DH and I took it last night - i still woke up, but went back to sleep fairly quickly. I think DH had less restless legs and probably slept better - i have a cold so its hard to tell how refreshed i feel.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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2nd night and i think i had a better sleep - but i have a bit of a cold at the moment so that doesn't help. Hopefully this isn't TMI, but i had 'the runs' this morning .... does anyone know if this could be from the glycine?

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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now that you mention it, I have had the same thing. I didnt link it to the glycine but I did find a vitamin website that

says its generally tolerated but some people have reported stomache upsets

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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well, i guess that is good, but i have worried a bit today that my morning dose of effexor might have gone all the way through!

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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i am not sure about glycine. So i have taken it for 3 nights - not exactly sure how much, a small teaspoon, so it is probably between 2 and 3gm. It does help me to sleep more deeply, but i don't think i am that refreshed - it could be the cold though. I had some fairly deep dreams as i was waking up this morning and i feel a bit heavy. I might leave it tonight - or maybe take a little less. Has anyone else had this effect

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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I didn't take it last night to give my stomached a break. I had a bad night sleep wise. I'm going to take lass tonight to see if I can find a balance

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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i want to persist with glycine, but i think 2gm is too much for me too - it really makes me feel groggy the next day - DH too, but he is definitely sleeping better - which is a big thing for him as he is a dreadful sleeper but it doesn't worry him - he just puts up with it. His poor sleep bothers me more because his legs twitch and keep me awake.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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I'm thinking 500mg is my limit on glycine at night.

 

I was taking 500mg before going to bed and 500mg when I was waking up. My gut was unhappy, but I thought it was the magnesium, which I also take. Last night I skipped the earlier glycine and no cramps.

 

So for me, 500mg glycine a night. I do think it helps my sleep.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi everyone

 

I've been struggling with my sleep -again. Very broken from 11-3 then very little afterward. I often have a great initial response to a new supplement, particularly Amino acids. I have posted some of my sleep successes here. Trouble is, it doesn't last. I find after 3-4 days the effect wears off. Happened with taurine and more recently Glycine. This happens despite the fact that I am an eternal optimist (ironic isn't it, given what I'm trying to off)

 

This persistent insomnia and very temporary amino outcomes has started to get me wondering whether I will be able to go any lower that the dose I'm on now. My rule is always to wait until my sleep is manageable but that's not happening. My other thought has been to rotate the aminos so that I don't build up the tolerance to them (I've purchased a new one today (inositol).

 

This goes against e stability/minimum change philosophy but what's a girl to do. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a rotation of aminos to avoid them pooping out?

 

Advice much appreciated as always

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Hi Dalsaan,

 

What dose of mirtazapine are you on at the moment? Is it possible that you tapered a bit far and you are 'catching up' so to speak? Maybe waiting until sleep was manageable is not enough with a drug that has such a STRONG hold on sleep.

 

I have absolutely no idea about rotating the supplements, but i can't see how it would hurt - if you had seven different supplements you could take a different one every night of the week :lol:

 

Seriously though, I guess you are doing some exercise everyday? I also don't know how this would work with drug withdrawal insomnia, but what if you were to get up when you wake up and don't go back to sleep after 10 mins - stay up and fold washing or iron or something until you are tired again and then go back to bed - if you don't fall asleep in 10 minutes get up again - and keep on going. Go to bed at the same time each night and get up at the same time. Believe it or not, before i changed professions i worked as a nurse - Once a year i ran a 6 week 'sleep better's group in a community health setting with a psychologist. This was well received and worked well for people - its a bit like controlled crying with children. The first few nights some people got NO sleep, but when they persevered they all ended up sleeping 6, 7 or 8 hours a night. They just really reprogrammed their bodies to sleep when they went to bed. But we excluded people who had other issues (like depression) in case it made them worse. When i was doing this job i didn't have my 'no sleep' phobia - i seem to lose all my common sense and ability to think reasonably when i am in withdrawal - I am two different people, like Jekyll and Hyde :lol:

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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Hi Dalsaan,

 

I am sorry to hear about your experiences after you were hopeful about the glycine. But I sadly can't say I am surprised since this happens with sleep meds.

 

You have nothing to lose my rotating them in my opinion.

 

Hang in there.

 

CS

 

 

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been struggling with my sleep -again. Very broken from 11-3 then very little afterward. I often have a great initial response to a new supplement, particularly Amino acids. I have posted some of my sleep successes here. Trouble is, it doesn't last. I find after 3-4 days the effect wears off. Happened with taurine and more recently Glycine. This happens despite the fact that I am an eternal optimist (ironic isn't it, given what I'm trying to off)

 

This persistent insomnia and very temporary amino outcomes has started to get me wondering whether I will be able to go any lower that the dose I'm on now. My rule is always to wait until my sleep is manageable but that's not happening. My other thought has been to rotate the aminos so that I don't build up the tolerance to them (I've purchased a new one today (inositol).

 

This goes against e stability/minimum change philosophy but what's a girl to do. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a rotation of aminos to avoid them pooping out?

 

Advice much appreciated as always

 

Dalsaan

 

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Hi Peggy

 

I'm on 2ml of the mirtazapine. I've been in that for a while now.

 

I've tried the getting up stuff. It didn't work and when I have to work in the morning it's too much.

 

Fingers crossed on the inositol and rotation strategy (pending other feedback)

 

Cheers

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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I totally understand not being able to do 'controlled sleeping' - you really have to be off work to do something as drastic as that.

 

I am looking forward to hearing how the inositol goes tonight.

 

Sending you sleepy time zzzzzz's

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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Dalsaan....

 

There are CD's that are targeted for sleep that you listen to while laying down at night.

What about journaling about the sleep while in bed? You can address a letter Dear Sleep, and journal about whatever and keep going till you get it up and out on paper.

 

You can tell sleep that you need to draw truce. This practice is used by some clinicians for people with HIV and other illnesses. It can't hurt.

 

I need to take my own advise. Last night I worked until Midnight and I have a huge issue 'winding down' when I work after 6-7pm, especially if I eat when I come home.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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