returningtonormal Withdrawal from Effexor

[returningtonormal]

Hello,

 

I have been taking anti-depressant drugs since the age of 17. At age 35 I noticed severe changes in depression, mood, and anxiety(panic attacks). I was prescribed Effexor (37.5 mg)about six months ago. It helped immensely after taking it for only a few days. At this point the dosage was increased to 75 mg. I soon began to experience strange feelings of nummbness and a feeling of being outside myself. I cut the dosage back and soon felt better. About three months ago I began to experience panic and extreme depression as well as having intermitent moments of feelings outside myself again. I went back to the same clinic/day treatment program that prescribed the medication and was told that the dose I was on was on a very low dose and I needed to increase my dose. I knew that this was not the answer. I visisted my priest and sought advice from family/friends. I was referred to a naturalist practice that laid out a plan of action to discontinue Effexor. The following is the reduction plan:

 

37.mg every other day for ten days. On the eleventh day discontinue Effexor completely.

 

In my heart I somehow knew this did not make sense because of the nature in which these drugs work. Despite my reservations, I was desperate to feel better and to trust in someone. I am at about day 25. The first week was horrible(crying, shaking, vomiting, depression, and panic). The second week the these effects lessened some, but then I began to experience the "brain zaps." Midway through I had a few days of feeling very happy and a strong sense of well being( I think this may have been a temporary high/manic type episode). I am at about day 25 and I am starting to feel the outside myself feeling and the panic that accompanies this. This is terrifying to me. I am so worried after reading the topics on safe withdrawal. I read that I may have somehow caused more harm than good by tapering off every other day and then cold turkey.

[Altostrata]

welcome, returningtonormal.

 

Correct, alternating doses is not the optimal way to taper!

 

You've just gone completely off, is that right? Were you taking Effexor XR capsules containing beads or regular Effexor tablets? Do you have any left?

[returningtonormal]

The pill bottle does not indicate if it is XR, but it is a capsule and contains little beads. I threw away the bottle of Effexor when I reached day 15 or so in withdrawal. I also threw away the bottle of Klonopin that I was given. I thought I was doing so well and then I feel this panic and strange feeling come over me.

I just finished reading the lovely and poignant 12 Chapter story BY Kenner. I am crying as I write this with my husband by my side. Withdrawal is not for the faint of heart. I have an appointment with the nurse practitioner tomorrow who put me on the this withdrawal schedule. I know that the worst is behind me in some respects. After reading her account, I don't think it would be wise to go back on Effexor as I am already a month into withdrawl and the brain zaps are just about gone. I don't know who or what to believe. I have intermitent shaking and and recent panic when i have to sleep or shut the lights out.

[Altostrata]

It is possible, though not guaranteed, that a small number of those beads, say 10 or 12, can reduce the symptoms you're having.

 

The idea would be that you could stabilize and then decrease bead by bead.

 

Otherwise, we don't know how long your withdrawal symptoms will last. It's good they've alleviated somewhat, but they could change or get worse.

[returningtonormal]

I was feeling this strange outside myself feeling as well as small panic attacks here and there while i was on Effexor. For this reason I decided to discontinue. I will talk to the nurse practitioner and share with her your advice. At this point I wonder if I'm just crazy after all and there is no hope. Though I desperately want hope!

[peggy]

welcome returning to normal!

I am sure you will find empathic, knowledgable and helpful advice here.

 

If you are not wanting to go back onto effexor - even at a small dosage, it might be helpful to try fish oil - it is supposed to support neuronal functioning. your poor nervous system is fragile and sensitive - any stress will be exacerbated. Meditation is very, very helpful.

[Altostrata]

Please let us know if the nurse practitioner knows anything at all about withdrawal. Most do not.

[returningtonormal]

Thank you for your quick response and advise, Altostata! I find it amazing and hopeful that there is are people out there who truely care and are well informed. I spoke with my mom this evening (next to my husband she is my biggest advocate). She mentioned that she has been watching me closely and feels going back may not be the best idea at this point from her perspective. My stomach lurches at the thought of going back down the Effexor path, but as you and Keener pointed out, this may stabilize my nervous system. I live in Viginia and was advised by a practioner to seek treatment at UVA(University of Virginia medical college). I was told that a team would study me and diagnose me(sounds promising,but Electric shock therapy is also on the menu with these folks) After discovering the work of Dr. Peter Breggin, diagnosis is not something I will ever take very seriously from a psychiatrist again. Psychiatrist have very little training/experience(if any at all) in communication and empathy(bed side manner) with patients. They are only interested in the pathology of mental health. DRUGS in short order are all that these "Doctors" deal. Yes, I said it. Psychiatrist are essentially drug pushers and like street dealers they often give you a sample to get you hooked . I realize that I am preaching to the choir here, but I hope to goodness that one of these drug pushers dressed in monkey suits will happen upon this site/my post and develop a conscience. In the larger scope this issue is much bigger than just the psychitrists. The bigger issues are the mistruths that the pharmacutical reps/industry continue to perpotrate and the fact that the doctors are writing their scholarly articles in favor of drugs while their palate is still wet from being wined and dined by drug reps. Unbelievably, this is still happening and the drug commericials on television are still running their propaganda.

 

 

Peggy, thank you for you advise as well. I have been taking Fish oil as well as Vit.D, Folic Acid, and Vit.B complex (Though not as diligently as I should). Meditation is fairly foreign to me. I have read that contemplation is good for the soul (though at this point contemplation often leads me to contemplate my sanity..not good I will take your advice and delve deeper into meditation. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts. My apologies for the lengthy text. My ability to compose itelligible sentences gives me hope that I will recover.

[returningtonormal]

Please let us know if the nurse practitioner knows anything at all about withdrawal. Most do not.

 

You are right they do not know alot about withdrawing as she was quick to assure me that taking effexor every other day for 10 days and then discontiuation was TEXT BOOK for with drawl from Effexor. We had a tearful discussion at week one of my withdrawl. I would like to find a well informed doc in this area.

[dalsaan]

Hi Returning,

 

Cant agree with you more on your analysis of psychiatry and big pharma.

 

I do however recommend that you think about the idea of reinstating. Many of us have resisted reinstating or updosing

and understand why you are reluctant. However, your system is saying 'you went too fast and I didnt have time to adjust'.

Its NOT saying I need this drug go back on. We recommend reinstatement in order to allow your system to stabalise and for you

to have a chance to come of the medication in a way that is gentle on your nervous system.

 

I wish you all the best

 

Dalsaan

[Altostrata]

Nobody ever wants to reinstate!

 

Still, a very small amount might help you now, and then you can ease off properly.

 

It's unlikely anyone at the University of Virginia medical college knows anything about withdrawal symptoms. That's how bad the situation is. You might explore what other doctors think, but be careful about getting snared in medications again -- or ECT! That definitely will not help.

 

You may wish to skip the B vitamin supplement. B vits often exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.

[flong]

Nice to meet you rerurningtonormal.

I've been on 150mg Effexor Xr for over ten years. Just over a month ago i started tapering bead by bead, some days more than a few. Ive held steady at 90% of my original dose for about three weeks. There were a few days last week i thought i was in the clear and ready to start going down by more...then WHAMMO! Headache, panic, nausea, closed eye visuals when i wake up, horrible vivid nightmares, etc.

All of these symptoms more than a month after slowly tapering down 46 beads per day (10%) of original dose.

Taking that into account, i dont think your symptoms are surprising, especially seeing as you did the textbook withdrawl.

I absolutely think you should take a small amount for a week or two. Not only will you feel better in the short term, it will put you in a position to be able to taper properly so you feel better in the long term

[returningtonormal]

Hello Dalsaan,

 

It has been awhile since I have visited the site. I have continued to keep appointments with the nurse practictioner, but was told a few weeks ago that by law I was required to see the doctor after 5 visits with the NP. This sounded great as this naturalist doctor was highly sought after and was constantly booked( I thought this was a good sign). I visted the doctor and she was very rushed during the appointment. She perscribed a Beta blocker, and proceeded to tell me that antidepressants were not bad that they had in fact saved lives. I was very tearful that morning and did not agrue with her.

 

She ordered a thyroid, seretonin, iron, ect blood work up. In the interim she recommended exercise, yoga, lots of veggies (this I could have read from Doctor Weil on my own..she apparently studied under him). Yesterday I called to get my blood work results and was met with resistance. To make a long story short, I shared my frustration about the short appointment, lack of knowledge about antidepessants in general. The receptionist was very kind and understanding and understood where I was coming from. I picked up my results and my blood work seems to be normal.

 

I have debated going back on something for a little while to see me through this. What are your thoughts on the Beta blocker? I have read that there is withdrawl from this as well. I have had some wonderful moments of clarity and feeling like myself again. Then out of nowhere, the panicy mornings and dread come back. I start having obsessive worring that shifts from subject to subject. I started working full time while in the throws of with draw. The constant business seemed to help until a few days ago. I think that I have worked myself so hard that the escape is not working anymore. I am off for a couple days and crying alot. I do not feel like eating, but I force myself to eat something. This is post is rambling on a bit, but this is essentially what life has been like for the last few weeks.

[peggy]

hello again returning,

 

i am sorry that you are still having difficulties. You are describing the typical withdrawal pattern of 'windows and waves'...

 

Is it two months since your last dose of effexor? It may be too late for reinstating to work. Going onto another drug is not likely to work as you are in withdrawal from effexor. I was one of the fortunate few who was able to reinstate and have all my symptoms resolve. But, more often than not reinstating doesn't work and can even make it worse by sensitising the nervous system.

 

Perhaps working so hard has overstretched your system - it is best to try and keep stress to a minimum during withdrawal - your system is very fragile at the moment.

[mindbend]

Psychiatrist have very little training/experience(if any at all) in communication and empathy(bed side manner) with patients. They are only interested in the pathology of mental health. DRUGS in short order are all that these "Doctors" deal. Yes, I said it. Psychiatrist are essentially drug pushers and like street dealers they often give you a sample to get you hooked

That's exactly what my husband says, all it takes is a 5 min in and out visit to get your legal fix. I have been seeing my psychiatrist regularly to enable him to follow my progress fully but he openly made it obvious that he wasn't interested in doing that or showing any empathy for that matter. I saw him at the 2 month mark after quitting cold turkey and he wasn't interested in reinstating, he thought it had been long enough that I could wait and see what happens. Although he sent me off with a prescription of mirtazapine and xanax, I thought they were optional because I was in tears.

 

During my latest visit, I told him it was horrible but things are getting a little easier finally and that I wasn't using any medication, he didn't like that, there was no encouragement, if anything he appeared condescending to me and said I wasn't chemically supported almost as if I am choosing to suffer for not taking the medication.

 

For me at one point, it got worse before it started getting better, 2nd and 3rd months being the worst. Had all sorts of blood tests done including thyroids, the frequent doctor visits and tests just made me feel more miserable. I felt out of my element, almost like a spectator of the world but not a part of it. Then I started getting moments of relief...they do become more frequent. So don't ever give up hope!

[returningtonormal]

Hello,

 

I have not posted in since I first began my with draw journey. It is now about month four and I have hit a terrible wave(I'm not sure if this is coinciding with my menstral cycle or not). I found a counselor that referred me to a Psychitrist that is highly sought after and well informed. After taking a chance and visiting with him today, I was in near hysterics in his office. He discredited all my symptoms and told me that it is my illness and not withdraw. My mother spoke up and challenged him saying that I have shaking spells and sudden depression/anxiety that hits me from out of nowhere. He said that Effexor has a short half life and that the drug was out of my system very early on. I had held out so much hope as my counselor spoke very highly of him. I found him to be the total opposite of what a compassionate, understanding, and educated clinician should be. I stood up to him, but felt so scared as I'm very vulernable. I told him that I was very sure of one thing. I was sure that the outside myself feeling that I had on Effexor is side effect that I have not experienced since being off Effexor. He was not going to allow my mom to come in when I started crying, but she came in when I called her on her cell phone. In addition the nurse told me that my blood pressure was low. When I told him that he told me that he was the doctor and had the final say. I also asked him if he had ever taken any of these drugs. His answer was NO.

 

 

I took his script for Prozac and a benzo of some sort. I am terrified of taking either, but I am more terrified of how I feel. Will this ever go away? Am I destined to have intrusive thoughts and worries and lack certain emotions? Will taking the Prozac (10mg) help in any way?

 

***This doctor said that they way my doctor weaned me off Effexor (every other day or 10 days and then cold turkey) is absolutely correct. He still told me that I was wrong that the liquid form does not exist and is unusual****

 

 

I hope to God that every single topic on here is reviewed by a higher source and used to educate.

[returningtonormal]

Perhaps this is not a topic worthy of reading as I'm contemplating going on another SSRI.

[alexjuice]

All I can say is that I've had this experience.

 

I went to a "highly regarded psychiatrist" with high expectations and was let down to find out she favored antipsychotics, didn't know diazepam had a longer decaying half-life than clonazepam, and also sent a high profile patient for ECT.

 

I'm sorry about your situation. Part and parcel with the misery is the abject lack of understanding from psychiatry. They've been misled and we suffer.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck to you and this is a terrible ordeal and no fault of yours.

 

best,

Alex

[Aria]

I went through something similar when I saw a new pdoc for a first visit and he was so abusive I was afraid.

 

I'm so sorry you had to be mistreated this way and made to feel less than what you are. Please remember you did not deserve this.

[Altostrata]

I'm very sorry, that doctor doesn't know anything about proper tapering or withdrawal syndrome. This is not uncommon.

[Nikki]

That psychiatrist needs a psychiatrist to put him on Effexor and then take him off suddenly.

 

I guarantee he would be singing a different tune

 

He is on an Ego Trip - Big Time. Stay far away from him. Prozac can cause more anxiety and intrusive thoughts. A benzo can help calm you down, however they are addictive.

 

Before I took medication (after Paxil) I would research meds alot. There are websites with lots of information and alot of sites with blogs where (like here) people relate their stories.

 

So sorry you are feeling poorly and then to be subjected to a doctor who showed little knowledge and caring.

 

Nikki

[returningtonormal]

What are your thoughts on taking Prozac or alternative medicine? Two relatives are recommending Amoryn? This has ST. Johns Wort, VitB12, and a plethra of other herbs. Both relatives have done remarkably well on this. I believe it is too late reinstate Effexor correct? Will anoter Phychotropic help me with the symptoms I'm having now?

 

Symptoms: Dread, extreme fear, worries about future, sudden panic, worried about my feeling of love for others(I try to reaffirm that I am a loving person who feels deeply for others, but the doubt creeps in) These are the intrusive thoughts I'm having.

[alexjuice]

I'm not familiar with Amoryn. In many cases of difficult withdrawal supplements can worsen symptoms through stimulation. Were your relatives experiencing a withdrawal syndrome? It may well be apples:oranges.

 

I'd like to assure you are a very caring and loving person. I can tell from your writing alone. I struggled with horrible intrusive, frightening and demeaning thoughts myself. They are products of electro-chemical processes in your nervous system. They do not represent reality though they FEEL REAL.

 

I wish I could tell you of an easy sure-fire way to get to feeling well, but I don't know of one.

 

Many interventions have been tried and discussed on this site. There are some things that work well or frequently well. It seems that each case is unique though and there is no magic wand.

 

Do you feel better typing? Sometimes typing or doing something to engage my mind and hands helped me a little bit. (Still helps.)

[Altostrata]

Here's the missing topic, RTN. It was merged with your Intro topic.

 

You might try a little Effexor. See below.

 

It is possible, though not guaranteed, that a small number of those beads, say 10 or 12, can reduce the symptoms you're having.

 

The idea would be that you could stabilize and then decrease bead by bead.

 

Otherwise, we don't know how long your withdrawal symptoms will last. It's good they've alleviated somewhat, but they could change or get worse.

 

We haven't seen any great successes with those supplements. If your nervous system has been sensitized by withdrawal syndrome, you won't want to take anything that can be stimulating, like St. John's Wort.

 

See our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for other suggestions.

[Jemima]

Just so you know, I'm the culprit who moved your post about the psychiatrist visit to your Intro thread, since it was about your personal journey through antidepressant withdrawal. I'm sorry that it caused confusion.

[returningtonormal]

Hi Alex, No, my relatives did not go through with draw. One experienced severe depression while away at school and this helped her immeasurably. She is fine now and no longer needs to take it. It may well be apples to oranges. I am on my menstral cycle and maybe my hormones played a part in this recent decline. Thank you for telling me that I'm kind. I am very fearful sometimes and have had to use my sheer force of will to perserve through. I told the doc this today...I asked him what about the power of will? My sheer force of will and faith as my priest has assured me is what is seeing me through. When it is so dark and painful, the will has taken me to work and helped me walk the dog when I was on my knees in torment all alone. I am becomming a bit phylosophical, but philosophy and science were foundation of his teachings. The whole person was taken into account. Mucus, blood, stools, and of course the personality of the individual was all taken into account. One was not devalued. Concerns were taken seriously, and attended to on an individual basis. As a culture we must remove the crown and idiolitry worship from these drug dealers. I refuse to bow to them. Even in my vulnerable state today, I maintained a stance that he could not ignore. I just wish I had all of bearing about me counter his propaganda. I may be reaching, but I equate this double talk, propaganda to the Nazi State of Germany. Some believed, others allowed themselves to be cajoled into false truths, but many knew what they were being told were lies.

[returningtonormal]

I erronessly forgot to add Hypocrates in the sentences talking about the testing of the person as a whole. Hypocrates phylsophy was take the whole person into account. The archaic methods these psych docs are using would have him rolling in his grave.

[returningtonormal]

Hello,

 

I am at a cross roads right now. I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing from me talk about the same thing, but I feel as though I still need answers or advise. I took my first adivan last night and helped me calm down, but put me to sleep. I'm still feeling the effects today. I'm took 0.05 mg. I have the Prozac bottle of 10 mg and I'm just very torn as to whether reinstate an AD. I am terrified of reinstating Effexor as it gave me this weird outside myself feeling that terrified me. I wonder if I took a very low dose of Effexor if I would have that feeling again.

 

Is 10 mg of Prozac a small enough dose to start? Are there any other drugs that might work better?

[Altostrata]

r2n, I merged your new post with your existing topic. Only one topic per person in the Intro forum. If you have questions about your particular situation, such as this question, please add them to this topic.

 

No one knows how you will react to 10mg Prozac. It might help, it might not. See this (your earlier topic on the same question) http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3689-will-prozac-help-with-withdrawal-syndrome-from-effexor/

 

If your nervous system has become sensitized by withdrawal, 10mg Prozac may be too much.

[dalsaan]

Hi return to normal

 

I'm sorry but none if us can answer your questions. You are asking us to predict the future. No one can say how your body will respond to Prozac. You have a little more information on what happens when you take Effexor but even with that we can't say whether reinstatement will make things better or worse.

 

I know it's a very difficult place to be in but it doesn't matter how many times you ask your questions we still won't be able to answer them. I believe Alto has recommended a small dose if Effexor. If it was me I would be following that advice. At such a small dose you might not get the same side effects. However, it might cause others or do nothing to alleviate your symptoms.

 

Dalsaan

[returningtonormal]

A few weeks ago I posted a topic about my tenative thoughts of starting Prozac after a four month with draw with Effexor(Effexor was rotated every other day for 10 days and then stopped). This is not even an option I wanted to consider, but I had reached an extreme low. I woke up one morning with panic and anxiety and then severe depression with intrusive thoughts. I had been doing fairly well in my with draw from Effexor. I had been able to weather the storms of waves and relish the windows. At this point I was crying almost constantly and unable to eat. I lost 10 lbs in 3 days and was feeling dizzy. I decided to seek out advise from the phych doc my therapist recommended. Arm in arm my mother acted as my anchor to the appointment and by my side in the baren white washed cracker jack box room. In a matter of minutes all my hopes were dashed when he began to explain in a matter fact manner that my illness has returned and that it is not possible that I was having residual with draw. My spirit not as fierce and sharp as it is when I'm well, struggled to gain footing to challenge the litany of quick rapid fire diagnosis that he was rattling to my mother. At one point I found and opening in his chatter and quietly asked him about the the power of free will and the sheer will to see myself through a battle that is caused by discontinueing a drug that is causing rebound depression. I was met with a smirk as I continued on in the defense of my symptoms and experience.

 

It was at this point that I cut to the chase and asked him his thoughts on starting Prozac at a low dose to see if my symptoms resolved as Effexor was not an option. I'm amazed that he really had no insight into the mechanisms of the drug other than the fact that it is FDA approved and safe. The only info that was worthy of mention was that it had longer half life and with draw was not a worry with Prozac(I did not buy this at all). After an few more exchanged words I left his clap board set up with my scripts for Adivan .5 and Prozac 10 mg. After two days of prodding and convincing from my mother and father, I took half of the adivan. I felt alot of relief, but was very worried about becomming dependent on a benzo. The next two days, I began the Prozac. Not long after I started to feel a headache, but different that a headache I'm used to. It felt like an overall ache and tingling in head. I decided to continue on as I read that the first couple weeks the side effect will reach a peak and begin to wane.

 

After four consecutive days of Prozac(I skipped a few times early on)I decided yesterday that Prozac was making me feel very strange. Upon further investigation I discovered that Prozac contains floride which is a carcinigin. This little discovery led to many other bridges on the web that kept me magnitized to my computer screen in a hyper vigilant state of worry and compulsive research. I am now finally resigned to the fact that I will have to weather the next storm (which will be coming soon as the last wave came right before my period coincidentally). I hope that I do not have with draw from Prozac. It has only been a week. If the side effects were not so difficult and if floride was not an ingredient, I would probably hang in there. The ativan is reserved for the very desperate moments. I'm hoping that with EMDR therapy and relaxation techniques I will lessen the severity of these moments when they occur. So far I am able to continue to work, by sheer force of will and support from my family to continue on. I hope and pray I can make it. I'm trying to stay positive and hold on tight.

[strawberry17]

Hi returningtonormal, just to let you know I merged your new post with your original topic on here so when people respond they can see the whole story.

Strawbs

[Altostrata]

R2N, it's not the fluoride in the Prozac but its reaction with your sensitized nervous system that is probably causing your reaction. Do not obsess about the fluoride.

 

Have your withdrawal symptoms abated at all?

[returningtonormal]

It has been a few months since I posted an update. Three months ago( I tried 10mg of Prozac for a week, but stopped because I began feeling pain and pressure in my head. I did use the adivan only as needed(once or twice a month). I know how well this drug works, but I also know how seriously addictive it can be. I had a few waves at work and needed to go to my car and call a friend to talk me through my anxiety and thoughts. I started to notice a pattern that sudden waves were coming right before my menstal cycle. Slowly I began to have less panic driven mornings and my days at work began to get better. At the end of March I had a stressful period of three days at work. The stress and lack of sleep left me shaking and feeling the dreaded panic/anxiety/depression combo.

 

This brings me to this past month. I decided that because of the menstral enduced waves to reinstate oral contraceptives that I stopped in the beginning of with-drawal. I experienced a strange sensation in my neck and head for a period of a couple days. This eventually lifted. The hormones cleared my skin and I began to run outside and take yoga. I was enjoying life and feeling that my past symptoms of waves and shaking were behind me. Then the week of my period came and I was thrust back into neuroemotion and shaking. I will also add that I had taken up drinking coffee again as well worrying about an upcoming event. I was burning both ends of the candle again. I am in day 5 of feeling neuroemotion and shaking. The fear and dread have been overwhelming. I'm either comparing myself to others or filled with self loathing and doubt. A few of my old anxieties have returned and that plays on my mind as well.

 

I really felt like I was not going to make it feeling like this again. I reached out to support at home and a friend and it has helped some. I am just hanging on. I wonder if I should just take oral contraceptives continuosly as to not have that drop in hormones that trigger this neuroemotion. I also know that coffee is on the outs and I will never sacrifice sleep. I am grateful to all that post their stories and progress. The success stories are what I have held on to all these months.

 

RTN

[Altostrata]

You may have been suffering hormone withdrawal as well.

 

Many women report withdrawal symptoms become worse at certain points of their cycles. See the Symptoms and Self-care forum. Female hormones definitely seem to be involved.