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Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike


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The Vitamin C is still working for me. Mad a huge difference for me with anxiety and depression as well.

My son has always reccomended larger than govt issue lol doses of vitamin C.  I take a children's multivitamin but probably need to look into vitamin C.

1993 prescribed Anafranil and something else I can't remember for very major severe debilitating depression that his BEFORE any meds of any kind.1993 prescribed 2 mg x 4 daily Ativan for nerves and anxiety as recommended by family and doctor. Didn't always use it.2002? prescribed Zoloft. 2009 prescribed Paxil. Switched to Paxil by first doctor trying to help raging IBS D that had hit.2012 prescribed Pexeva and IBS dissappeared.2013 government mandated use of Paxil for everyone, went back on it. (Unless you have $1,000.00 per month laying around) IBS RETURNED.June 2015 2nd doctor cut 30 mg Paxil to 20 mg Paxil to try to stop new level of deadly IBS that made me unable to eat.October 2015 began accidentally missing several Paxil doses per month.June 2016 reduced

 

Paxil to 15mg officially to begin to try to taper.

March 2017 Paxil tapered to 10 mg daily. Having trouble going further.

1993 Prescribed 2 mg X 4 per day Ativan as per family and doctor for anxiety and nerves. Quit/tapered Ativan years at a time until divorce 2012.

2017 tapered to 4 mg from 8 mg ativan per day.<p>

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If It can supposedly help cure cancer, it obviously has huge benefits health wise . :)  Definitely worth a go . Yes - RDI - a joke !    

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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We had a 20 year old young man in our church who developed cancer.

He wouldn't take chemo.

He drank copious amounts of carrot juice.

He got over the cancer and it never came back.

Just sayin.....

1993 prescribed Anafranil and something else I can't remember for very major severe debilitating depression that his BEFORE any meds of any kind.1993 prescribed 2 mg x 4 daily Ativan for nerves and anxiety as recommended by family and doctor. Didn't always use it.2002? prescribed Zoloft. 2009 prescribed Paxil. Switched to Paxil by first doctor trying to help raging IBS D that had hit.2012 prescribed Pexeva and IBS dissappeared.2013 government mandated use of Paxil for everyone, went back on it. (Unless you have $1,000.00 per month laying around) IBS RETURNED.June 2015 2nd doctor cut 30 mg Paxil to 20 mg Paxil to try to stop new level of deadly IBS that made me unable to eat.October 2015 began accidentally missing several Paxil doses per month.June 2016 reduced

 

Paxil to 15mg officially to begin to try to taper.

March 2017 Paxil tapered to 10 mg daily. Having trouble going further.

1993 Prescribed 2 mg X 4 per day Ativan as per family and doctor for anxiety and nerves. Quit/tapered Ativan years at a time until divorce 2012.

2017 tapered to 4 mg from 8 mg ativan per day.<p>

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Hello,

 

I have been suffering with morning anxiety for a while now. I have tried taking 2000 mgs of vitamin C before going to bed and I am finding that it isn't really very effective. That's just my own experience though. It seems to have worked for other people.

Previously - zopiclone, risperidone, lyrica (pregabalin), ativan (lorezapam)
01/Aug/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
12/Aug/2016 -  75mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
03/Oct/2016 -  70mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
29/Oct/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Nov/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Dec/2016 -  60mg effexor, 3.6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jan/2017 -  60mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
27/Mar/2017 -  54mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
23/Apr/2017 -  54mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
09/May/2017 -  75mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
08/Jun/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6.75mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jul/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
Sometimes valium. Not daily. Supplements - Sterols and Stanols.
Note : I would really hope that nobody uses my tapering history as a guideline. It might not work well for somebody else tapering similar medications.
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Hello,

 

I have been suffering with morning anxiety for a while now. I have tried taking 2000 mgs of vitamin C before going to bed and I am finding that it isn't really very effective. That's just my own experience though. It seems to have worked for other people.

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

my anxiety is hit and miss and the morning variety is not as bad as it was.

I think I may need vitamin c for overall reasons mostly  related to physical health.  I'm in lousy shape.

While I have you here, can you take benadryl or other allergy pills?

They make me nutty with despair.

thanks

1993 prescribed Anafranil and something else I can't remember for very major severe debilitating depression that his BEFORE any meds of any kind.1993 prescribed 2 mg x 4 daily Ativan for nerves and anxiety as recommended by family and doctor. Didn't always use it.2002? prescribed Zoloft. 2009 prescribed Paxil. Switched to Paxil by first doctor trying to help raging IBS D that had hit.2012 prescribed Pexeva and IBS dissappeared.2013 government mandated use of Paxil for everyone, went back on it. (Unless you have $1,000.00 per month laying around) IBS RETURNED.June 2015 2nd doctor cut 30 mg Paxil to 20 mg Paxil to try to stop new level of deadly IBS that made me unable to eat.October 2015 began accidentally missing several Paxil doses per month.June 2016 reduced

 

Paxil to 15mg officially to begin to try to taper.

March 2017 Paxil tapered to 10 mg daily. Having trouble going further.

1993 Prescribed 2 mg X 4 per day Ativan as per family and doctor for anxiety and nerves. Quit/tapered Ativan years at a time until divorce 2012.

2017 tapered to 4 mg from 8 mg ativan per day.<p>

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Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

 

 

my anxiety is hit and miss and the morning variety is not as bad as it was.

I think I may need vitamin c for overall reasons mostly  related to physical health.  I'm in lousy shape.

While I have you here, can you take benadryl or other allergy pills?

They make me nutty with despair.

thanks

 

 

Hi,

 

No problem at all. I haven't tried benadryl or other over the counter allergy medicines. Maybe you mean antihistamines? They are supposed to be sedating I hear. Anyway, maybe I will those a shot. Thanks for the tip. I felt a little better today I think though.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

Blazes.

Previously - zopiclone, risperidone, lyrica (pregabalin), ativan (lorezapam)
01/Aug/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
12/Aug/2016 -  75mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
03/Oct/2016 -  70mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
29/Oct/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Nov/2016 -  65mg effexor, 4mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
25/Dec/2016 -  60mg effexor, 3.6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jan/2017 -  60mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
27/Mar/2017 -  54mg effexor, 5.25mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
23/Apr/2017 -  54mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
09/May/2017 -  75mg effexor, 7.5mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
08/Jun/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6.75mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
18/Jul/2017 -  75mg effexor, 6mg olanzapine, 15mg mirtazpine
Sometimes valium. Not daily. Supplements - Sterols and Stanols.
Note : I would really hope that nobody uses my tapering history as a guideline. It might not work well for somebody else tapering similar medications.
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Vitamin C in the form of 2 tall glasses of OJ at night before bed. Vitamin C is suppose to reduce cortisol levels and I can tell you it stopped my morning anxiety almost completley. I have stopped taking the OJ for a week or so and the anxiety comes back. There is another thread where others had similiar experiences.

Hi Fj929, I bought a tube of those tablets which can be dissolved in water. Just vitamin C 1000 mg with some additives like aspartame. Drank it before bedtime. Normally I'm not a fan of these, but it seemed like the anxious feeling was a lot less this morning. I slept peacefully till 7 am, woke up and instead of the racing heartbeat I was just a little uneasy.

I will try it again tonight :-)

 

I wanted to bug you since my post about allergies got merged with a big thread and I have received few replies.  Do you ever need any allergy medicince?  If so can you take it?

The last time i tried it I was filled with despair and dread like the 4th day of cold turkey stopping of an AD.

Any advice from experience?

Thanks.

1993 prescribed Anafranil and something else I can't remember for very major severe debilitating depression that his BEFORE any meds of any kind.1993 prescribed 2 mg x 4 daily Ativan for nerves and anxiety as recommended by family and doctor. Didn't always use it.2002? prescribed Zoloft. 2009 prescribed Paxil. Switched to Paxil by first doctor trying to help raging IBS D that had hit.2012 prescribed Pexeva and IBS dissappeared.2013 government mandated use of Paxil for everyone, went back on it. (Unless you have $1,000.00 per month laying around) IBS RETURNED.June 2015 2nd doctor cut 30 mg Paxil to 20 mg Paxil to try to stop new level of deadly IBS that made me unable to eat.October 2015 began accidentally missing several Paxil doses per month.June 2016 reduced

 

Paxil to 15mg officially to begin to try to taper.

March 2017 Paxil tapered to 10 mg daily. Having trouble going further.

1993 Prescribed 2 mg X 4 per day Ativan as per family and doctor for anxiety and nerves. Quit/tapered Ativan years at a time until divorce 2012.

2017 tapered to 4 mg from 8 mg ativan per day.<p>

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I just read an interesting article yesterday on cortisol. Apparently our circadian clock, a 24 hour hormone cycle generally regulated by sunlight, releases cortisol 3 times per day. The article said we release cortisol at roughly around 8 or 9am, then again around noon or 1pm, and then one more time around 5:30 or 6:30pm. I am guessing it is probably different for different people as some may have darker rooms to sleep in ect... plus I am thinking winter and summer may be different as well with sunlight at different times. I also found this interesting because we use melatonin to help reset our circadian clock when our sleep is out of whack.

I also wonder if this is why we often feel better by evening - no more cortisol spikes. Could this also be when people often have panic attacks in the morning or during the day during one of the cortisol releases? Something to think about.

Medicine History

June 2011 I was put on 10 mg Olanzapine. I stayed on that for 7 months then went down to 5 mg for 3 months and then went down to 2.5mg and slowly went down to less than .3 every few days. I have tried to come off 4 times, each time getting down to less than .3 before having to go back on at 5mg or 2.5mg. I would cut by 50% each taper. From Jan 2015 to June 2015 I reduced from about 5mg to .3 mg. This last time I went on 2.5 mg last June 2015 until July 2, 2016. July 3, 2016 I went down to 1.25mg - withdrawal hit. Up dosed to liquid 2 mg July 23, 2016.

Medicine Current

2 mg Olanzapine as of July 23, 2016

Supplements

Omega 3 1000mg, Vitamin E 400 UI, Vitamin C 1000 mg Time Released, 200 mg Magnesium Bisglycinate, Multi Probiotic, .25 mg melatonin for 3-5 days as needed

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I just read an interesting article yesterday on cortisol. Apparently our circadian clock, a 24 hour hormone cycle generally regulated by sunlight, releases cortisol 3 times per day. The article said we release cortisol at roughly around 8 or 9am, then again around noon or 1pm, and then one more time around 5:30 or 6:30pm. I am guessing it is probably different for different people as some may have darker rooms to sleep in ect... plus I am thinking winter and summer may be different as well with sunlight at different times. I also found this interesting because we use melatonin to help reset our circadian clock when our sleep is out of whack.

I also wonder if this is why we often feel better by evening - no more cortisol spikes. Could this also be when people often have panic attacks in the morning or during the day during one of the cortisol releases? Something to think about.

Very good to know.

I wake with gritted teeth and clenched fists some times, but not full blown anxiety, just nervousness.  but sometimes anxiety.                                      

This was especially bad as I tried to get my sleep schedule fixed.

Walking makes me feel a little better but weirdly has upset my sleep even if not done late?

Thanks for your time.

1993 prescribed Anafranil and something else I can't remember for very major severe debilitating depression that his BEFORE any meds of any kind.1993 prescribed 2 mg x 4 daily Ativan for nerves and anxiety as recommended by family and doctor. Didn't always use it.2002? prescribed Zoloft. 2009 prescribed Paxil. Switched to Paxil by first doctor trying to help raging IBS D that had hit.2012 prescribed Pexeva and IBS dissappeared.2013 government mandated use of Paxil for everyone, went back on it. (Unless you have $1,000.00 per month laying around) IBS RETURNED.June 2015 2nd doctor cut 30 mg Paxil to 20 mg Paxil to try to stop new level of deadly IBS that made me unable to eat.October 2015 began accidentally missing several Paxil doses per month.June 2016 reduced

 

Paxil to 15mg officially to begin to try to taper.

March 2017 Paxil tapered to 10 mg daily. Having trouble going further.

1993 Prescribed 2 mg X 4 per day Ativan as per family and doctor for anxiety and nerves. Quit/tapered Ativan years at a time until divorce 2012.

2017 tapered to 4 mg from 8 mg ativan per day.<p>

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  • 1 month later...

Hello. I was wondering if there's a running list of things people have tried, with some success, to calm the racing heart you get when waking up? Thanks so much!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Spacely,

 

I suggest you start an Intro/Update topic for yourself so we can get to know you better and find out some additional information about your drug history.  This will help us answer your question.

 

introductions-and-updates     Click on Start New Topic, top right

 

 

Please also complete your drug signature which will appear every time you post.  Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature.  Please include details for the last 12-18 months of  all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements.  If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August".  Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years. Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hello. I was wondering if there's a running list of things people have tried, with some success, to calm the racing heart you get when waking up? Thanks so much!

 

Slow, controlled breathing exercises worked for me.  Try these topics:  Irregular heartbeats, palpitations, tachycardia, bradycardia ...

 

Pranayama or Yoga (Yogic) Breathing - Surviving Antidepressants

 

As Chessie requested, it would be great if you started an introduction thread for yourself.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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The racing heart symptom was the most frustrating for me. And took the longest to abate. I still have some issues in the morning, even though I'm now light years away from the horrors I was experiencing a couple of years ago. I relied on Taurine for a LONG time. I took a pure 500mg supplement with no other components for about two years. I traded in my 25 mg a day Metoprolol beta blocker (crosses the BBB and gave me nightmares) for a low dose 12.5 mg Atenolol a day beta blocker (does not cross the BBB) and found almost immediate relief. I no longer need the Taurine. The Atenolol is enough to keep the crazy at bay, it has no psychotropic effects, I exercise every day, I don't have panic attacks any more, and I can sleep.

 

Here's what I avoid: (starred items I NEVER touch.)

Sugar

Refined carbohydrates*

    Cake

    Cookies

Some Complex Carbohydrates

     No wheat products

 

Caffeine*

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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No pasta

No bread

No oatmeal

No cereal

No bananas

NO Processed foods* (anything that comes out of a BOX) (unless its organic)

NO soda - diet or otherwise*

NO alcohol*

 

I do NOT eat after 7pm. EVER. It is a guarantee that I will sleep poorly and wake up with anxiety if I do. The body spends all night digesting when it should be resting.

 

Being highly disciplined has kept me on the recovery track.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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lexhex ... we are similar.

 

I have been on Klonopin for generalized anxiety for 20 years. Ramped slowly from .5mg to 3mg. Then it stopped working. Even did the opposite. So, I cut down to 1mg / day with the help of Gabapentin. Then cold turkey off the G.P. and I remain on 1mg Klonopin. Been in that state for 4 months. But promptly at 4am, I wake with a racing heart, and if I try to go back to sleep, I get fear pangs in my chest. So I end that by getting up. I do get 2 sleeps (~5hours). But never the 3rd sleep. I guess I'm stuck like that for a while. I want that to end before I continue the ramp-off of the rest of Klonopin.

 

Similarities:

 

- If I eat a heavy dinner, my heart will race literally ALL NIGHT. Until the alarm. Especially pizza or beer. Tough for a guy :)

- I rarely have that kind of dinner anymore, and when I skip dinner all together, I notice I do sleep a bit better. Just a bit.

- Love cake, cookies ... have cereal every morning. From a box.

- I have a banana every day for lunch. Why not?

- Yea, I need some coffee during the day. Maybe 2 half cups. Is it still in me at 4am?

 

Is Atenolol made for people with heart disease? I'm a skinny 50 year old, but if that's something to look into, I could mention it.

 

I'm willing to pop out of bed at 4am for the rest of my life, rather than go back to any Benzo.

 

Thanks for the tips.

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The reason why you're still not ok is because of the klonopin. Once it goes paradoxical, no amount you take will work. It becomes stimulating rather than calming. The only way to move past it is to stop it. But even 1mg is too strong to CT from. The anxiety and racing heart will absolutely get worse as will your insomnia, loss of appetite and early morning revele. The only way I was able to get off it was a week in a treatment center with phenobarbital.

 

You do not need to have a heart problem or high bmoood pressure to take a low dose beta blocker. At very small doses it dramatically reduces rapid heart rates, anxiety, panic, shakiness and all the other symptoms associated with an overactive sympathetic nervous system. It is non addictive, and doesn't change your brain chemistry. However like any receptor based drug, you have to come off it slowly to give the adrenergic receptors a chance to down regulate.

 

Finally, if you really expect any improvement, a lifestyle change is absolutely necessary. If you're eating like crap, drinking, and generally treating your body like a dumping ground, nothing will change. Period. And anyone who tells you differently is lying. Not every symptom you have is withdrawal related. Many are, but it can't be used as a blanket excuse for everything that ails.

 

Bananas have a **** ton of sugar. Carbs become maltose, galactose and fructose. Yes, more sugar. And guess what that alcohol becomes? You guessed it... more sugar.

 

Rethink the diet, dump the booze and the crap and figure out a way to kill the klonopin. Talk to your doctor about atenolol to bridge the racing heart and anxiety gap. My guess is it will help.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have been waking up with anxiety however it gets progressively worse after 1pm it doesn't let up until after 8-9 pm.

Basically my wd symptom seem to get worse in the evenings.

Started Effexor August 2012 Sept'12-150mg=extreme anxiety Oct'12 cut half-75mg severe wds

Feb 2013 68.5mg. Mar'13- 65mg. Apr'13-59mg. May'13-57mg. June '13-52mg Aug'13 49.75mg.

Sep'13-48.75. Nov'13-47mg Dec'13-45..5mg

May 2014 42mg. Jun'14 40mg (depressive mood started). Aug'14 -40mg/ started brintellix 2.5mg

Oct '14 -39 Nov'14 36.89 Dec'14 34.45

Jan 2015- 31 Feb'15 29mg. Mar'15 26.72. Apr'15 24.48. May'15 22.31mg. Jun'15 20.30mg

Aug'15-18.89. Oct'15 16.96. Nov/16- 16.10. Dec/15- 15mg

Jan 2016-14.22. May'16 11.45. Aug'16-9.60. Sep/16- 8.88mg. Oct/16- 8.39mg. Nov/16- 8.13. Dec/16- 7.89

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi everybody this is my first reply on this website.

Been on Paxil 9 years and tried twice tapering ( last time with liquid but failed at 1.6mg down from 20mg over 2 years) that was 3 years ago. I didn't know WD causes these morning wakeup and I was fooled by my psychiatrist that it's a relapse.. 3 years later today I tapered again after being on 20mg 1 year and am at 3.5mg now and facing the same but when I up dose 0.2 or 0.1 it disappears so I know know it's WD.

 

So my strategy now is to try to decrease this WD symptom ( panic and the insomnia is the only one I get nothing else ) by trying vit C and 1.5MG per kg of aspirin before sleep to decrease the cortisol... this will take 1 week to start seeing the results as per studies on pub med.

 

I'm an oncology surgeon myself and am a victim of paxil.

 

I will let u guys know if it worked as I go down further in the coming weeks and hopefully of in the month to come ( slow taper)

 

Happy I found this website.

october 31st 2007

panic attacks after recovering from the flu 

paxil 20mg .

Three attempts to taper

2009 ( down to 1.6mg)

2015 down to 3.5mg 

2019 down to 8.5mg

Crashed each time with stress and back to 20mg each time + 1mg of klonopin  ( because of the paxil updose effect) then  I taper klonopin after 3 month for 3 month each time with liquid.

 

Now up to 12mg paxil will stay forever but again 1mg  klonopin 2 month to taper again soon.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Panicpax -- Please consider starting an introduction topic for yourself. That will be the best place to provide you with relevant links and information and to answer your questions.

 

Link to start a new topic for yourself in the Introductions and updates forum

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I've never had anxiety or panic attacks until I tried getting on Celexa again. Now I'm a mess. For awhile the Buspirone helped, but once I tried Venlafaxine it was a huge mistake. Now today I woke up with a panic attack and have been fighting the anxiety, racing heart, and headaches all day. Even having bad thoughts today, so I'm sure it's WD symptoms.

 

Ate a cutie and will try to drink some OJ in a moment to see if it helps. Can't get tablets currently so it'll be a good chance to try food and drink first. Still taking the Buspirone until I can get stable enough to stop taking it.

 

So...what does "stable" feel like when going through all this?

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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Same thing happened to me when I stopped taking the Lexapro and then tried to reinstate at full dosage 3 months later. I had begun experiencing intermittent, but escalating withdrawal panic which is what prompted me to attempt reinstating. Rather than calming and stabilizing, the Lexapro threw my sympathetic nervous system into overdrive. Like you, I made the mistake of trying to go right back to my original dose. Even when I tried to step it back down to 2.5mg so I could try to ramp up slowly, my body just wasn't having it. I couldn't get the heart rate under control, I had unrelenting diarrhea, agonizing insomnia, complete loss of appetite, a resurgence of latent agoraphobia, and a total disappearance of self empowerment. All of my symptoms were acutely visceral and not remotely psychological. I wasn't mentally anxious, I was overwhelmed by constant surges of adrenaline which kept me mobilized constantly but absolutely exhausted. Even reading or listening to music was impossible. (Music is still a problem early in the day - later on its fine.)

 

You ask what stable feels like when you're going through this. Stable feels like you felt when the drug was working. Every person is different, but it took me two years to get past the worst of the physical symptoms. Many of them were exacerbated by food choices which I detailed in an earlier post. Sugar and carbs are the absolute enemy. Ditto for alcohol or caffeine.

 

The only supplements worth considering are Taurine and Magnesium. And in moderate doses. (There are multiple threads on the site about this - but there are excellent published studies that you can find on external resources that will provide a plethora of great info so you can make an informed decision.) Stick to information sources that have peer reviewed data and are based on clinical evidence. PubMed is good, the NIH.gov based sites are great.

 

Avoid megadoses of Vitamin C. It will just rip at your stomach and your body won't store it so it has little value except in small doses that would be found naturally in food. You may see recommendations for aspirin. Steer clear. Again, it will just rip at your stomach (because that's where it's absorbed), it will certainly thin your blood (which isn't a great idea) and its mechanism of action has no impact on the sympathetic nervous system so any touted benefits stem from desperate attempts at relief.

 

The best thing you can do is eat clean and be PATIENT. Try to get exercise if you can tolerate it. Start with stretching to relax everything down a bit. This process is a long drawn out drag, but it is temporary -- Although I know that in the moment - it seems endless and tortuous.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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Lexhex,

 

Thank you for your insight and the information you provided. Today I had a window and tried doing things around the house, which was rather difficult with dizziness and the endless throat tightness that makes me feel like I'm going to freak out or hyperventilate. It's more annoying than anything.

 

The last month has been hard to have a good diet since I've been spending the holidays with my mother (she can't really afford much and is disabled, long complicated story) but I should be going back to a good diet soon when I go back to my own house.

 

Alcohol and caffeine have never been a problem, as I despise the flavor of both (except things like green tea and the like), but sugar will be difficult to give up as well as carbs. I'll do my best to give them up, do you have any recommendations or advice on healthy eating, like which foods are best to eat or avoid (certain fruits or vegetables, is soy milk okay???)

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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Because you are relatively young, the soy milk should be fine, although IMHO, almond milk is a better choice. (no phytoestrogens to impact the hormones)

 

As far as nutritional advice, the best advice I can offer is this: if it comes in a box AND they make commercials for it - don't eat it. Stick to whole foods. Berries are great. Cheese sticks. Hard boiled eggs as snacks. Lean turkey slices. Carrots and celery with a bit of ranch dressing. Sliced apples.

 

If you like veggies, boil them just enough to get the hardness out, then sautee them in olive oil with salt and parmesan. (Great for broccoli and green beans) If you like brussels, add BACON. Nothing with bacon ever tastes bad. Lol. Toss them in a bowl and just pick.

 

Lean proteins are best. Chicken, turkey, fish, maybe 2 ounces at a time. How you cook it isn't important.

 

Carbs: Nothing refined. No bread, cookies, pasta, crackers, cake, cereal.

 

Instead try: rice (white), quinoa, sweet potatoes, very small white potatoes, smashed cauliflower (with parmesan and butter)

 

Graze. Avoid heavy, big meals at one time. Do nothing to overload the system or make it work harder. No more than 200 calories at a time worked for me to keep my body from being angry. I ate 6 times a day, but I had far fewer digestive and cardiac issues than when I tried to do the breakfast/lunch/dinner thing.

 

This is just off the top of my head. You should notice an immediate calming of your body once the sugar and carbs are out.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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Wow, such great advice! Most of the foods you listed to eat are things I love! Was definitely worried about rice, as it's a large part of my diet, being interested in the Japanese culture and frequently finding recipes to make.

 

Thank you so much for your input. It makes me feel more confident already. Do you think yogurts could help fight anxiety as well or are dairy products just a no go? Do you have issues with those?

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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I tend to get lactose intolerant with milk - but yogurt is fine. Fage is a good choice. Plain - and throw in some fresh fruit - if you need sweet, pick up packets of Stevia in the raw. No foods will eliminate the anxiety - but avoiding certain foods will dramatically reduce it.

 

What meds are you currently still on?

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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Currently still on Buspirone 5mg twice daily. Trying to stabilize myself until I can wean off of it. Still fighting the problems from previous antidepressants.

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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Does it help?

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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I believe so? Hard to tell because of going off Venlafaxine. The panic does seem better today so I think the Venlafaxine is wearing off, but still have that weird throat tightness of panic.

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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Effexor (venlafaxine) is VERY stimulating. No wonder you were stuck to the ceiling. It should be out now though. Drink plenty of water to keep things moving along. Besides the intrusive thoughts, what's the most troublesome symptom - the one you want gone.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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Besides the intrusive thoughts, I'd say the panic/anxiety/rapid heart beat. They're all kinda going hand in hand and it's scary and frustrating because when I try to be somewhat physical then the throat tightening starts which tries to send me into a panic.

 

Derealization can come next in line after those.

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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The rapid heartbeat was my biggest issue. I experienced every symptom you have and in the same order. Lost 20 pounds in just a couple of months, no appetite, no sleep, and that racing heart that drove me INSANE. I spent so much time in the ER they knew me by name.

 

The Taurine helped me turn the corner. The beta blocker was the real game changer however. I take a very low dose of Atenolol. (12.5mg a day). No more racing heart. No more physical symptoms of anxiety. Back in control. Almost nonexistent side effects because of low dose. I don't care if I have to take it the rest of my life. I'd rather have peace.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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I also lost a lot of weight and barely have an appetite. I'm scared of taking any other med and worried the Buspirone isn't working anymore, even just after a month of using it. I'm practically scared of everything and I was never like this until trying Celexa again. I'm nearly convinced I'll never get better.

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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I have been using Vitamin C over the past 3 months to help with morning anxiety.   I feel it has helped quite a bit thought I have added more things as I have been able.  I space it out over the day so that I take it in increments so that I can absorb it, 50mgs up to 4,000mgs per day.   I also have started an adrenal support supplement and increased my Vitamin D after a blood test showed my levels were low.  

 

All throughout my wd I have taken L-Theanine for rebound anxiety.   Intially I took 200mgs 3 x a day but now as needed.   When I make a cut, which I recently did, I take it at night so that it can support me in terms of any residual anxiety.   

9/2013-4/2014:  After moms death, was prescribed a series of meds for short periods of time that didn't work. Zoloft, Lexapro,  Nortriptyline, Liquid Prozac, Cymbalta. 

1/2014-9/2014. Clonzapam: Given Lamictal, stopped Clonzapam at .125mgs  

1/2015-4 2017 Remeron: 41.25 -0.025mgs

7/2015-11/2018 Lamictal: 200mgs-0.05 mgs Had paradoxical reaction to Lamictal wd, broke my heart to take a benzo but wasn't sleeping. 

3/28/2019 -2/5/ 2021  Clonazapam: 0.625mgs-.00115 Med Free 

July 27th, 2022**Severe Setback due to surgery/ anesthesia. 

9/7/22-10/4/22 Trazadone 50-100mgs for sleep, 10/13/22-11/13/22 Trazadone 1 mg to stabilize

10/4/22-11/20/22 Remeron 7.5mgs (for sleep doesn't work) 11/20/22 7.3 - 12/31/22 6.3 

2023: 1/18/23 6.1 - 6/6/23 3.6  6/16 3.4  6/28 3.0 7/12 2.7  7/28 2.5 8/11 2.2 8/23 2.0  9/5 1.8  9/16 1.6  9/30 1.4  10/13 1.2  10/26 1.0  11/9 0.8  11/22 0.6  12/6 0.4  12/23 0.2.

2024 1/4/24  Remeron/Mirtazapine free 

Additional Support:  Armour Thyroid 75mgs, Magnesium Glycinate 300-500mgs,  L-theanine 

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Hibari,

 

I will look into the L-Theanine as well. I know I tried oranges and orange juice first but wow, my stomach didn't like that! Hour anything else I try won't be too bad and add more.

 

I'm glad you find comfort somehow and hope you continue to get better!

- 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg (no issues, did well)
- Mid 2012 Switched to Celexa 20mg (no issues with switch)
- 6/16 Stopped Celexa (always took med once every other day, tapered to once every three days for about a week and a half, took one a week for one week, no problems)
- 10/20/16 Started Celexa 20mg (next day had panic attacks, stopped after three days, kept having panic attacks and anxiety rest of the month)
- 10/28/16 Started Paxil 20mg (took for almost a week, had suicidal thoughts/severe derealization, tapered off to one every other day for a few days)
- 12/8/16 Buspirone 5mg twice daily (felt drowsy but kept anxiety under wraps, still taking it)
- 12/27/16 Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg (took two days, migraine first day, headache all day second day, third day had severe depression/outbursts of crying, couldn't stop most of the day, bad invasive thoughts, never took third dose because of it)
- 1/7/17 taper Buspirone 20% (miscalculation but doing well), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month to almost half each pill

- 2/3/17 taper Buspirone 2.5mg twice daily (did fine, listened to body), gradually slivered off tablet throughout month

 

* Aromatherapy 100% oils in diffuser every night *

* Morning stretching routine every day *

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