Jump to content

If you find useful information here, your gift would help keep this site going. Our staff is entirely volunteer.

Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes

circadian rhythm cortisol morning anxiety

  • Please log in to reply
495 replies to this topic

#37 ajay

ajay

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  • LocationGreater Boston Area

Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:03 PM

I've tried phosphatidylserine, but only a few times. I took it at night (I don't remember the dose - I'll have to look it up at home) and it didn't help with sleep. But I didn't try it consistently and I never tried taking it in the morning (I figured low cortisol during the day might not be ideal).
History is approximate; I didn't track my dosages.

1995 - started zoloft/sertraline for depression
1995-2008 - sertraline ranged from 100-200mg, may have gone as high as 250mg
2006 - 2009 - added welbutrin/budeprion SR, 150 mg
sometime in 2009-2010 - stopped budeprion c/t
sometime around 2009-2010, Tapered down sertraline w/o guidance to 50 mg, then 25mg.
~ feb 2010, stopped sertraline.
~ Apr 2010, resumed 25mg low dose (really bad business trip)
Oct 2010, stopped sertraline
Jan 2011 - another bad business trip "breaks" my sleep.

current issues include insomnia, anxiety, GI distress, depression.
Taking multivitamins, Vitamin D, fish oil, Chinese herbs, ~ 0.5mg melatonin in the evening.
Going to therapy and acupuncture once a week.

#38 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 19 July 2011 - 03:18 PM

Coincidentally, I talked to my doctor, who is very knowledgeable about this stuff, yesterday and asked him about trying Seriphos again. He thought I might give it a try, since it helped me before. He said if it didn't help at night, take it in the morning. He said phosphatidylserine gets in between the glutamatergic signalling to the adrenals and the production of cortisol.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#39 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:30 PM

Unfortunately, attempts to "balance" hormones (neurotransmitters are hormones) breaks the normal homeostasis that runs the body very well, even if the person does have sad feelings.

Agreed, don't change the factory-installed settings if you can help it!


True!! As a friend pointed out, we are constantly managing our health and happiness with a million things... food, sleep, movies, drugs, sex, exercise, you name it. Certainly we are permeable beings and what we surround ourselves with and put in our bodies affects us. It is a fine balancing act. The problem with so many conventional medicines is that they are very imprecise and very strong and have the potential to seriously disrupt our balance. I've always believed it's better to find gentle treatments for our ailments... given that, I can't really tell you why I bought into the whole antidepressant "solution". Laziness and wishful thinking, most likely. Same goes for taking metronidazole for amoebas. Alas, I am paying for it now!

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#40 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:26 PM

A friend who is coming to visit from the US is bringing me some Seriphos, so I'll be posting in a few weeks if it helps me or not. I found this blog entry which almost seems like an ad for Seriphos: http://www.medicineg...ortisol-part-3/ What I found interesting is two things, though: 1. They say to take Seriphos when your cortisol is highest... so I guess that would mean taking it in the AM for me. 2. They mention high cortisol gives you hot flashes that last longer than they should, and night hot flashes. One thing I'd been meaning to post about is that I noticed a lot of me waking up at night is weird temperature issues. I get really burning hot for a good part of the night, and that is when I wake up. I also found this in the Wikipedia article for cortisol: Factors generally reducing cortisol levels Magnesium supplementation decreases serum cortisol levels after aerobic exercise, but not after resistance training. Omega 3 fatty acids have a dose-dependent effect in slightly reducing cortisol release influenced by mental stress, suppressing the synthesis of interleukin-1 and -6 and enhancing the synthesis of interleukin-2; the former promotes higher CRH release. Omega 6 fatty acids, on the other hand, have an inverse effect on interleukin synthesis. Music therapy can reduce cortisol levels in certain situations. Massage therapy can reduce cortisol. Laughing, and the experience of humour, can lower cortisol levels. Crying can reduce cortisol levels. William H. Frey II, a biochemist at the University of Minnesota, proposed that people feel "better" after crying, due to the elimination of hormones associated with stress, specifically adrenocorticotropic hormone. This, paired with increased mucosal secretion during crying, could lead to a theory that crying is a mechanism developed in humans to dispose of this stress hormone when levels grow too high. Soy-derived phosphatidylserine interacts with cortisol; the correct dose, however, is unclear. Vitamin C may slightly blunt cortisol release in response to mental stressors. Black tea may hasten recovery from a high-cortisol condition. Factors generally increasing cortisol levels Caffeine may increase cortisol levels. Sleep deprivation. Intense (high VO2 max) or prolonged physical exercise stimulates cortisol release to increase gluconeogenesis and maintain blood glucose. Proper nutrition and high-level conditioning can help stabilize cortisol release. The Val/Val variation of the BDNF gene in men, and the Val/Met variation in women, are associated with increased salivary cortisol in a stressful situation. Hypoestrogenism and melatonin supplementation increase cortisol levels in postmenopausal women. Burnout is associated with higher cortisol levels. Severe trauma or stressful events can elevate cortisol levels in the blood for prolonged periods. Subcutaneous adipose tissue regenerates cortisol from cortisone. Anorexia nervosa may be associated with increased cortisol levels. The serotonin receptor gene 5HTR2C is associated with increased cortisol production in men. Some formulations of combined oral contraceptive pills increase cortisol levels in young women who perform whole-body-resistance exercise training. Commuting increases cortisol levels relative to the length of the trip, its predictability and the amount of effort involved. Stimuli associated with sexual intercourse can increase cortisol levels. Finally, on another site, I found that you should drink plenty of water and cut down carbohydrate intake, as the more carbohydrates you eat, the more cortisol you produce to metabolize those carbs.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#41 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:37 PM

Interesting stuff about cortisol. Thanks, Nadia. I also get hot flushes when I can't sleep, I agree, it's the cortisol.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#42 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 06 August 2011 - 11:57 AM

So I got my bottles of Seriphos yesterday, and am pretty excited to try it out. Except I found conflicting information about when and how much to take. I've read: 1. The mood cure says for trouble staying asleep, with waking between 2am and 4am, take at 10pm. If you have trouble getting to sleep and also staying asleep, take one capsule before dinner and 2 capsules by 10pm. 2. The manufacturer says to take 15 min before a meal. 3. Another site says take two in the morning and two at lunchtime. 4. Another place suggests taking a capsule 1 hour before when your cortisol is highest (if you've had that tested). 5. Someone on a forum says the Clymer institute says to take it around 10pm before a high protein snack and then when you wake up in the middle of the night. Not sure what approach to take... I think maybe I'll start with 10pm and when I wake up at night and see what happens.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#43 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 06 August 2011 - 04:07 PM

That's the advice I got, Nadia. Take at bedtime and see if it helps. If it interferes with sleep, take it earlier in the day. (It made me sleepy.)
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#44 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 10 August 2011 - 03:28 PM

So, what I've been doing is taking the Seriphos before the meal I have right before I go to bed. Then if I wake up during the night, I take it. So that's like 12 or 1am and then 4 or 5am. I've upped to taking two capsules each time. I'm not sure if it's helping yet. I don't really seem to feel an immediate anything, but I AM doing a bit better than I was a few days ago. Not sure if it's the Seriphos or all the other stuff...

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#45 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:32 AM

Interesting! I haven't tried my leftover Seriphos yet. If I remember, I'll try it this evening.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#46 Temperance

Temperance

    Member

  • Validating
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • LocationNorthern England

Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:05 AM

Hi I've been having this early morning horrors since I first came off Seroxat which started it all. Unfortunatly I came off abruptly and despite me and my family telling the doctors over and over that I was suffering from withdrawal, they said I was having a bipolar manic episode. I've discovered this is a listed withdrawal reaction. The early morning waking at 4.20 every morning is most peculiar. I can't bare the light and have only just stopped putting cotton wool in my ears as my senses are shredded and raw. Because I was misdiagnosed with bipolar, it led to another 5 years on prozac, then sertraline along with begin tried on zyprexa, seroquel, tegretol and lamictal to treat symptoms THEY said was bipolar but I know now was the drugs doing it. I've tried everything. It's been the worst 6 years of my life. I've so far been off anti-depressants since last June but I still get brain zaps occasionally, have harrowing anxiety & crying as soon as I get up which is usually around midday as I'm so tired, even then I struggle to do anything. The best medicine for me was medical marijuana in controlled ingested doses but I've had to stop treatment for legal reasons, but it knocked the anxiety & crying on the head within minutes. Please For your own sake don't rush out and try this. If you must, learn about it first and go through legit clinic in the US or netherlands. I have wondered for ages what the waking horrors was all about. If it's cortisol, that explains it. I also have virtually no motivation and find each day something to be got over with. I know that's no way to live. Is there any neurological treatment to help or safe remedy to help? Any comments would be most welcome. I'm at my wits end.

#47 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:35 AM

Hi, Temperance.

It sure sounds like your regular wakenings at 4:20 a.m. are related to the natural cortisol spike we get as dawn approaches.

Blocking out the morning light can help, with blackout shades and curtains and a sleep mask.

It sounds like you're getting some sleep, at least -- which is a good sign.

Much of your post sounds like an Introductions topic -- could you post it in the Introductions section? We can discuss the other symptoms there.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#48 Rhiannon

Rhiannon

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 3,783 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest US

Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:55 PM

Interesting point, Rhi.

The half-life of Xanax is 11.2 hours, give or take. ms. summer, seems to me you might be having some Xanax hangover into the morning, that's what's tapping your energy.

From what I've read, and it fits with my experience, blood levels of Xanax peak out in about one or two hours and then fall. Half-lives don't always reflect the actual activity of a drug, I find it more useful to look at plasma levels.

I had a bad spell of this this morning, the feeling anxious and restless but at the same time feeling scared and reluctant to get out of bed...it's just too weird. The staying in bed, for me, is definitely related to anxiety--bed feels safe and like a nest and the world out there just feels overwhelming. But once I get up and stumble around a bit, I feel better and don't want to go back to bed.

I've been blacking out my room because I work late evenings/nights and need the dark to sleep in, but didn't realize it was also helping with the cortisol--but it definitely does, because it used to be worse before I got my room blacked out so well, and whenever the curtains slip and light comes in, I have worse mornings. This is a great tip.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#49 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 28 September 2011 - 03:48 PM

....
I've been blacking out my room because I work late evenings/nights and need the dark to sleep in, but didn't realize it was also helping with the cortisol--but it definitely does, because it used to be worse before I got my room blacked out so well, and whenever the curtains slip and light comes in, I have worse mornings. This is a great tip.

Yay! It's hard to believe something so basic and simple can help with these damnable symptoms, but it does. Just turning down the cortisol a little bit and getting a little more sleep can really help recovery.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#50 Phil

Phil

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:56 PM

I woke this morning around 6.30am, which is unusual for me in itself, and as soon as I did I just had a feeling of dread in my stomach, I felt really sick, and just depressed and horrible. I didnt want to get out of bed, but at the same time I couldnt go back to sleep. Is this withdrawal? Those morning cortisol rushes? I was under a lot of emotional stress yesterday, very sad and depressed, so I wonder if that has triggered it rather than withdrawal? What do you think guys?
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#51 Maybe

Maybe

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 420 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 01 October 2011 - 12:02 AM

Hey Phil, that is very common in wd. I had that for some weeks around the 10th month as far as I can remember. Still get this sometimes, but very seldom and it is no comparison to those weeks when it started. It is neglectable now, at least the dread and anxiety. My body feels sick close to every morning.

End of 2008: Remeron 15mg for around 2 months. Unorthodox taper, no problems.
End of August 2009: Lexapro 10mg for only 4 days. Panic attack after 3 pills. Severe gastro problems in the morning for 3 days after last pill. 2 weeks later strong w/d symptoms set in.

Acute WD lasted around 3.5 years. I am feeling much better today, 5.5 years out, but still have some symptoms left.


#52 Phil

Phil

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 02 October 2011 - 11:21 AM

Thanks Alto I'll check out that thread. I already have thick curtains that block a lot of light in my room so not sure if room-darkening is neccesary, but if this continues I will try it. I have an eye mask which I havent been using much, it irritates me in my sleep and I end up taking it off in the night. I might give it another try though.
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#53 Barbarannamated

Barbarannamated

    Platinum star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,176 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:12 PM

My cortisol mornings are much less w blackout curtains, however, the morning dread, terror, sorrow that I awoke at all, is horrible. It is worse when I am alone, which is most mornings. I stayed w friend for a few weeks and I was so dreadful in the mornings, I warned him to not try to say anything to me or take anything I said to heart. I feel near psychotic, or what I imagine to be psychotic- intense anger, irrational, fear, paranoia, lashing out at ones I care about. It's scaring me. I woke w a 8/10 headache today and wonder how this is playing in. I have significant pain most days and often wish I had DC'd the ADs sooner rather than opiates, the known evil. I was told by psychiatrists at 2 hospitals that they couldn't treat me b/c the opiates interfere w ADs at u-opioid receptors. The pain specialists never heard of such a thing (reputable docs--interventional and conservative w meds). I was in bed all day, fell asleep and woken by a phone call in afternoon. I immediately noticed improved mood, dramaticaly different perspective or 'reality'. I hope that makes sense. Causes me to wonder what is happening in sleep. Terrors? I thought for long time it was lack of anything on schedule. Loneliness. Another day of nothing, feeling worthless. But why so different in afternoon? Any thoughts welcome.
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#54 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:39 AM

The natural cortisol level starts to decrease in the afternoon.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#55 Crocus

Crocus

    Member

  • Validating
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Locationxxxx

Posted 13 October 2011 - 04:45 PM

Thanks for the tip on blocking light. I have done some better using some music called "Twlight's Lullaby"? It is kind of odd if you wake and listen to it, but it seems to have helped me not to feel the anxiety of "anticipating" the next morning. I also use lavendar essential oil in a heater and this seems to help me relax as well.
xxxx

#56 Barbarannamated

Barbarannamated

    Platinum star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,176 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 14 October 2011 - 03:32 AM

I hate when I wake every morning to another day of nothing. I've been driving for 3 months now and am no closer to knowing what is to become of my life. Not once has my husband asked where I am. Nobody knows except 1 friend. And On Star, I suppose. I find it interesting how easy it has been to disappear without anyone noticing. That wasn't my intent when I left home, although it shows me why my life felt empty for so long.
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#57 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

On the other hand, Bar, you truly are on a journey. That seems pretty darn meaningful to me. It's only when you compare it to "what might have been" that it's lacking. Surrender to the experience! It sounds like you can go anywhere. Go to places that have meaning for you. Take photos of things that communicate meaning. I fully believe that when you pursue the path in front of you rather than try to go down a "what might have been" road, you can find your mission. Doors open up. It's quite remarkable.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#58 myself

myself

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • LocationSomerville, MA

Posted 18 October 2011 - 09:26 AM

Hi all! So, I've been waking up and feeling depressed and worthless and have a hard time concentrating or doing work or anything until about one or so. Then I feel better and can work (but I am depressed about a "wasted" morning). And then I have class in the evenings Monday through Thursday, and get home around ten. I go to sleep around midnight, and wake up between eight and nine. I sometimes manage to work out in the mornings (but not today). I'm wondering if you all think this might be cortisol related.. I don't have a problem falling asleep, and I don't wake up early. My bedroom gets very little light. I usually have trouble waking up. I just kind of put it together that this is probably a withdrawal symptom, but I've never been a morning person... so I'm not sure. Anyone have any ideas? Alto, I did read your post saying that cortisol levels go down in the afternoon, so that is probably why I feel better around noon? This whole thing is very annoying (obviously) and I have tons of work to do for grad school, and am just not getting much done lately... Also, I've been thinking about getting one of those sun lamp thingies. Has anyone had any luck with those?

Have taken psychiatric meds since 2002.
Wellbutrin, Lexapro, Zoloft, Effexor (not sure of the dosages, or how long I took them...); have taken Clonazepam (1mg, as needed) since 2002 as well.
I was prescribed Adderall in late 2009 (after saying I had problems losing weight), stopped taking it cold turkey in Feb. 2011- made me very anxious, obviously.
Currently: Have been on Pristiq 50mg since 2008, I think. Still taking Clonazepam. Began cutting down my Pristiq dosage on July 22, 2011.

Also- it is my last year of grad school! I am looking forward to graduating, being med-free, and starting a new stage in my life!

#59 LadyD

LadyD

    Getting started

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • LocationNew York

Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:12 PM

Thank you for helping me to understand what has been happening to me. I found help in getting rid of those feelings by writing down what I was anxious about first thing in the morning. I was able to see a pattern and create some helpful self talk from it. So, now, my episodes are shorter. They key, however, is to write it down and not think about it after that. Your mind will key into the repetition after a while of writing, and you will discover what your patterns are. (If not, go back and skim your entries after a week or two.)

--

Citalopram (Celexa)
April 2010-July 2011

Out of withdrawal. Successfully adjusted to life off meds. :D Part of that adjustment includes Couch to 5K (www.c25k.com). I'm a runner now!

 

Diagnosed with primary hyperparathyroidism in 2013. Successful surgery same year. All symptoms for which Celexa was first prescribed are a result of this disease. I had it for many years, but the earliest noticeable symptoms for me were panic attacks and anxiety leading to depression. At the time, I only knew that thyroid disease could be connected to depression. I was tested, but tests came back normal. I have learned a lot more since then!

 

More info on parathyroid disease can be found here: http://www.nlm.nih.g...ddisorders.html

 

Recover well!


#60 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:18 PM

I gave Seriphos a try a few times. I believe it did help me to sleep more deeply. But it also kicked off a paradoxical reaction -- more waking. I'm going to try half a capsule.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#61 Phil

Phil

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:38 AM

Has anyone here tried the product Relora for the excess cortisol that withdrawal causes? http://www.relora.co.uk/ My depression seems to be getting progressively worse recently so I'm wondering if reducing cortisol might help. I wonder if this product might be helpful for it.
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#62 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:28 AM

I have not tried it, but was curious about one of the ingredients it has, magnolia officinalis. It was one of the things I was going to try before I started improving enough that I wasn't on a mad search for solutions. I know a lot of these things can have a paradoxical effect... at least for anxiety. I'm not sure how it would work for depression. If you try it, let us know how it goes!

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#63 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:14 PM

The adaptogenics can be problematic if your nervous system is sensitized from withdrawal. It's always a good idea not to take mixed supplements, to try one thing at a time in a very small amount, to make sure you can tolerate it.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#64 Phil

Phil

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 361 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:28 AM

Thanks Alto. Is there any supplement you would recommend for excess cortisol over others? I tried Theanine yesterday and although it helped depression and stress, it had other effects I didn't like so much. Nadia - good to hear you've improved some :)
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#65 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:45 AM

Nadia started an excellent discussion here in Symptoms: Reducing cortisol levels with supplements?
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#66 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

Thanks, Phil! I tried 2 months of Seriphos for reducing cortisol... it's hard to know for sure, but I think it helped. I'm ordering another month's supply to take it again in case my recent setback lasts longer or gets worse. (I'm still a million times better than I was when I first came to the site, though! Important to remember.) I think the Seriphos and walking for 45 minutes a day helped me most.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#67 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:08 PM

I tried half a capsule of Seriphos after waking in the middle of the night to see if it would help me get back to sleep. Didn't seem to help. Need to try half a capsule of Seriphos at bedtime to see what it will do.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#68 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 04 January 2012 - 05:26 PM

Yeah, if it has an effect, it's not a major one, not like taking a sleeping pill or anythig. Also, I remember the last time I took it, which was a couple of months ago, when I had upped to two capsules that it seemed to backfire. But then when I stopped taking it I noticed a difference. I have a feeling that it's something that helps in a subtle way with longer term use (they say not to take it for more than three months). The two months I took it before was when I saw the most improvement, so that's why I'm giving it another shot.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#69 alexjuice

alexjuice

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,300 posts
  • LocationUndisclosed USA

Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:24 PM

Nadia, A doctor recommended Niacinamide, starting at 500mg, for anxiety. He said it's also been used to as rowboat to get people off of benzo island and onto more solid ground. I tried it -- half dose 250mg -- and YEA, big time sedation. I'm still figuring out how best I'll be able to use it. In any event, it's an inexpensive supp. You may want to try it out. Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#70 Altostrata

Altostrata

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,737 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco, CA

Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:19 PM

I get niacinamide in 100mg tablets (Source Naturals) and take 200mg in the morning and another 100mg at night. I think maybe I'll start taking the 200mg at night instead. I could use some sedation then.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#71 Nadia

Nadia

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationSomewhere

Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:13 PM

Hmm... worth a shot. Thanks, Alex! Right now I only have trouble falling asleep about 5 to 10% of the time, and it never seems to take me more than an hour. What I'm really suffering with is morning dread and anxiety. Usually I wake up about 5 hours after I go to sleep. Then I'm able to doze off for little bits until the anxiety builds to a point that I just have to get out of bed (I probably fight it way too much, but I feel sooo tired at the same time as feeling anxious). I wonder if I took the niacinamide when I woke up before dawn if that would help calm the anxiety... I'm going to try to find some. I was also thinking of taking B12 for depression, but wonder if that would make my anxiety worse... any experiences with that? I guess there's nothing like trying. I have to do only one thing at a time, though...

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#72 alexjuice

alexjuice

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,300 posts
  • LocationUndisclosed USA

Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:28 PM

I haven't been able to take much b12. Far too stimulating for me causing a variety of unwanted effects including anxiety. But it seems most aren't as sensitive to it as I. On b12 most do ok from my anecdotal observation.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: circadian rhythm, cortisol, morning anxiety