aberdeen

☼ Aberdeen's recovery from Effexor and now a Paxil taper

381 posts in this topic

Hi Aberdeen--  Thinking back to my migraine days (I try not to usually) and I can remember something  similar.  Lots of disconnected little snippets that made no sense, couldn't be followed and wouldn't go away.  Once they stopped the headache usually would start to resolve itself.  I really disliked migraines (who doesn't) but finally learned to roll with them, which helped a bit.  Over the years they just gave up and went away.  You've been sounding so much better in your posts lately, I'm so excited for you.

 

((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

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Brass, we're getting there arent we? You know, that sounds like what I experienced, the migraine thing. usually I get a visual aura in my peripheral vision, a silver sparkly area and a blind spot. Once my husband couldnt talk for a few minutes (ended up in the ER thinking stroke!) Im sure it was that.

 

I read an article around here today about tapering in the low doses. Very interesting, that even at 1mg, one of the SSRI's, Celxa maybe? likely paxil too im sure...still had a 20% receptor occupancy. That tapering in the higher doses is, if you graphed it on a curve, very slow changes, wheras in the last 1-2mg, the change is almost a vertical drop, a huge change in how mnay receptors are unlocked so to speak...even at 10% of a taper. So it helped me realize that I"m NOT imagining that I still feel effects from these miniscule changes in med, on these tiny doses....and also that its Not a bad idea to taper a drop or two below 1mg perhaps. Hmmm...

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Yes we are, and I can't wait.  The improvements I seen in the both of us over the past six months have been amazing, just so it keeps going.

 

I saw some of the graphs about tapering, it was a real eyeopener about the low doses.  I can really see why the bunch of us have been having trouble lately.  

 

I've only had the migraine auras five times.  The first two scared the heck out of me and made me quite ill with the headache.  Then it was over 35 years until the next three and those I only found to be bothersome.

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So it helped me realize that I"m NOT imagining that I still feel effects from these miniscule changes in med, on these tiny doses....and also that its Not a bad idea to taper a drop or two below 1mg perhaps. Hmmm...

 

Not a bad idea at all.  I don't know how people got this idea about stopping at 1mg rather than tapering down.  Sure, some people stopped at 1mg and were okay, but I don't think that made it a general recommendation.  I'm intending to drop as close as I can to zero, I might stop at 0.2mg!

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I'm intending to drop as close as I can to zero, I might stop at 0.2mg!

Me too. Just worked it out - will take me two and a half years at 10% drops or 5 years at 5%. Don't care which really - will take as long as necessary.

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I wonder if using how you feel is a good guide. I always feel my drops. If i get to a point where I dont feel them anymore, at or just below 1mg....I wonder if that means its safe to ditch? I also wonder how accurate my scale and powder weighing method will be by those doses. 

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I never feel my drops.  Only the ditching.  I am gonna put off the ditching as long as possible lol

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Thats nice you dont feel your drops! Sometimes its better than others for me...but Im assuming its my drops (and not my effexor wd) only because they are so scheduled. 

 

My holiday DR is lifting, replaced by my wonderful PMS rage and irritation. Im so used to this cycle I sometimes wonder what will i do when its over...feeling nice, kind and happy MOST of the time would be amazing. is this what normal life would be like?

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I so hope you get to feel that Aberdeen - feeling nice, kind and happy MOST of the time. I'm feeling extremely lucky and a bit guilty at the moment because I AM feeling so much better and I AM mostly, feeling like ME. When I'm like this, it's actually difficult to remember how bad it actually has been. I can sort of see why, when people do recover, that they sort of forget how it used to be.

 

Happy New Year! Hope you get some good bits today Aberdeen! XXXX :)

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Happy New Year Aberdeen.  We made it through another one and saw a lot of improvements on the way.  I hope this next one holds a lot more of the same for you.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

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Hi, just want to drop in and say, on the subject of tapering slowly at low doses:  I'm tapering citalopram, and from the charts it looks like at 1 mg there is still 15% receptor occupancy. I'm doing a liquid taper and cutting by 0.05 mg (half of a tenth of a milligram) per cut, and when I get below 0.5 mg (that last half milligram) I will be making even smaller cuts. I'm hoping to drop off at the end at around 0.01 mg.

 

So yes, you can go really slow towards the end! I don't mind it because the actual effect of the drug is so minimal at this point. 

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I'm doing a liquid taper and cutting by 0.05 mg (half of a tenth of a milligram) per cut, and when I get below 0.5 mg (that last half milligram) I will be making even smaller cuts. I'm hoping to drop off at the end at around 0.01 mg.

I'm finding it interesting here that there seem to be more people doing very tiny dose drops.

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Hi, just want to drop in and say, on the subject of tapering slowly at low doses:  I'm tapering citalopram, and from the charts it looks like at 1 mg there is still 15% receptor occupancy. I'm doing a liquid taper and cutting by 0.05 mg (half of a tenth of a milligram) per cut, and when I get below 0.5 mg (that last half milligram) I will be making even smaller cuts. I'm hoping to drop off at the end at around 0.01 mg.

 

 

Rhi, how often do you do those 0.5mg drops? I see by your signature that even though you are taking tiny drops you are still able to decrease about 1mg a year. I would love to be able to go down 1mg a year, because it would mean that I would be off this crap in around 5 years. Whereas at my current rate (.1mg every 8 weeks) it would take me TEN more years to be off. I'm 34 with no children so I'm really feeling the pressure to be off this drug soon so I can try to have a baby.

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Wow...that is tiny!!! I know we need to toss the calandar out the window, but this is discouraging as i was truly hoping to jump off at 1mg originally...then I figured maybe .5mg...... the thought of dragging this out sucks. I wish there was a way to know for sure! (I know, impossible). I might look into making liquid if I ever need to....I cant buy it here in Canada so \i would have to make it. Hopefully i can accuraltely weigh the powder all the way down though.

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I don't think you necessarily need to drag it out that much, Aberdeen.  See how you feel as your tapering goes on and go by that.

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Dropped to 1.5mg 3 days ago. I cant say I feel anything yet from the drop, but i normally don"t for a couple of weeks. My anxiety is high, however, because Im worried about my daughter. She is 8 years old and was put on a  course of Amoxicillin, at 10ml 3x a day for 14 days. About 10 days after she finished, she started getting panicky about random things. Ive NEVER seen this in her. Anxiety was the last thing I ever expected this child to suffer from. My son, very likely, but not her. It was so unlike her, a mother knows her child. So ive been reading. Ive found countless forums and testimonies of people who have had anxiety from antibiotics, all of them, even so called safe Penicillins.... and of course Aeromans story is scaring the crap out of me even tho cipro is worse than penicillins for neuro effects...but she is suffering. It stole the joy from her Chrsitmas, she was ruminating and curled up on my lap, all week off and on saying she wanted to cry for no reason, scared for no reason. Ive run the gammut of questions about bullying, being molested, being hurt, nothing has turned up. My dancer who dances in a huge theatre in front of hundreds could barely pull off a tiny Christmas concert in front of a handful of kids without wanting to vomit. Insomnia, off and on for weeks...she is pale and sickly. She was really worried about a bunch of issues at school, I thought maybe just maybe its the age, a phase, and these things are bothering her more than i thought (though theyve never bothered her until two weeks ago when this all began. So her teacher and I have alleviated a bunch of these stressors together after a week of meetings and emails, and finally hoping maybe we helped i asked how she felt as i tucked her in tonight , she whispered "still nervous inside, only now its about nothing" I want to cry and scream. Its cruel enough that I had to go through this but I can't survive watching my child suffer faceless nameless anxiety over a drug. I feel very sad and defeated now. I feel horrible actually. My poor child. What if this has ruined her nervous system for good? Now she"ll always have an anxiety problem? Because of medication? How many more people in my family have to have their lives ruined by pharma? I wish Id never given them to her.

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I'm so sorry to hear that your daughter is going through this.  So not fair.  On the other hand, would have not giving her the AB's been a good thing?  We take them for granted now but often for things that used to kill.  Just a thought.

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I'm sure you have not ruined her nervous system for good!  It may be temporarily sensitised, but if she can stay calm for a while, it will settle back down eventually.  Your daughter is smart, she has recognised it as just chemical anxiety, i.e. 'nervous about nothing'.  Removing stressors for a while sounds like a good idea and should help.  She'll get through this, and you will be a great help to her because you understand very well how meds can sensitise the nervous system and how to cope with that.  Please don't beat yourself up for giving her penicillin, it is generally pretty safe and far less risky than cipro.  Individual responses to meds vary so much, and we can't predict how someone will react to a particular med.

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I'm so sorry, Aberdeen. I can't imagine what it must be like to watch your child go through something like this and feeling powerless to help. I totally agree with everything Songbird said. Penicillin is nowhere near as dangerous as Cipro and while her nervous system is definitely in a sensitized state now I'm sure with a bit of time and your loving support she will be back to her old self in no time. Perhaps you two can take some mommy daughter time and do some relaxation exercises together. Even just 15-20 minutes a day would be a positive step. I have found a good cup of chamomile tea can be soothing to the nerves and stomach as well. I've read it's safe for children (unless they have a ragweed allergy.) I'm sure you know all this already, but just trying to throw out some ideas. I'm positive she is going to be ok. You're such a good mommy to worry about her so, she's lucky to have you!

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I'm sorry Aberdeen. It's hard seeing your children suffer.

My sister had a course of antibiotics just before christmas and started suffering with anxiety. It is getting better now though. Try not to worry too much, it will resolve.

 

My son has anxiety on and off - started last year when I got sick which breaks my heart. He would have a cup of chamomile tea before bed and I explained what anxiety was. There are good books out there for younger children to explain anxiety.

 

I'm sure it will get better soon. Hugs.

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Aberdeen - after the antibiotics, did you give pro and prebiotics?     To help re-populate the gut flora after the antibiotics?  Is that something that happens over there?   Here, many people are aware of doing that.  

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Thanks Muddles, for that story, even just to hear one other story liike this, with some hope...

Ever, yes, she has been drinking kefir and eating yogurt. But with a relatively high dose and an extended treatment time, I'm thinking her guts are pretty depleted. Of course I've learned most of this online, Dr never mentioned it. I read that depleted gut flora can cause anxiety, so it could be this. If that's the case she should recover. I'm not handling this very well, I usually don't lose it but this is WAY tooo close to home for me right now. She I wonder if some multivits would be good too, or just stay wiith the yogurt and kefir (oor a good probiotic, bc who knows, is Kefir ok for her?) I'm over reacting, but I can't help it. this has thrown me for a loop.

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Ladybug thanks for the encouragement too! She seemed a bit happier about school today, hopefully this helps. Teacher offered more help in math and gave her some different partners to wrk with for a project that's been bothering her. Time will tell if it resolves most of the anxiety. I think this is an inside job though.

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Muddles which AB did ur sister take and has she been taking probiotics? I would have done this all in one post but there is n edit option from my phone,lol

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Jr...yes I think in this case I could have got away without them. Dr said its something that would resolve but she was missing school so we rushed the process, it was a sinus infection, but not even that bad, there was no fever. I jumped the gun. But what's done is done.

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Sorry to hear that your little girl is having such trouble.  I am quickly getting to the point that I won't trust any medication at all, especially if it is newer than 20 years old.  It sounds like she understands what is happening and should be fine really soon.

 

((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) for you

 

(((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))) for her.

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Amoxicillin - she phoned me worried Saying she had started to wake up in a panic. She hasn't take probiotic's...I wasn't sure what these were, I have had to google it. Does anyone take these in withdrawal? I will tell her to start taking it. She has been a lot better over the last couple of weeks now.

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Yoghurt containing live cultures should do the same job as probiotics.  Ever, I didn't realise that it was the gut imbalance that caused the anxiety symptoms.  I guess that could happen with any AB and wouldn't be so much a reaction to a specific AB.

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Unless I'm dying, I stay away from antibiotics.   They are what caused my ME (CFS), which I had for years, undiagnosed (they didn't know about it then).  I just thought I was dying.    I only began to recover when one doctor (bless him bless him), diagnosed me correctly and amongst other things, started me on heavy duty probiotics.   Most yoghurt doesn't contain the live cultures.   It takes a long time to build up that flora again - some sources think it never gets back to what it was before antiiobiotics.  However, I think I've fully recovered - took me many years though.

 

Nowadays, even with our horses, we are encouraged to give them probiotics after a course of anitibiotics.   My own horse just had to have steroids, and for several weeks after them, he was 'spooking' at nothing - very unusual for him.   I started him on probiotics and two weeks later, that nervousness seems to have gone.  

 

Hope you daughter gets better Aberdeen ...... 

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I really do think its a gut connection. A friend of mine said her parrot was plucking his feathers out, agitated. The vet immediately said, get the gut in order and gave her probiotics and it helped. Why are human Dr's so damn clueless? I make homemade kefir which supposedly has more probiotics than yogurts (esp storebought yogurt) I will just keep at it. She seemed a bit better yesterday. I am getting really tired of my family discrediting me and saying she"s "at an anxious age". I know my daughter...and this was nearly an overnight change, and right after antibiotics? Seems silly to over look it tbh. But then again they also dont believe Im in wd. I wont be in a hurry to ever use AB's again thats for sure. I have a recipe book for some really yummy probiotic drinks, like lemonade and fruity stuff like that...I may brew some of that too.

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Aberdeen I am sooooo glad you are doing the kefir and looking into this stuff.  Since my ME all those years ago, I have been studying, thinking and observing this stuff in  both humans and animals and I'm convinced that gut health has a huge effect on us.   If you are making your own kefir - that is so good.   If you can get cheap coconut water, you can make fizzy coconut kefir for your daughter too!     So glad :)

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All this makes me wonder how many people are being diagnosed with anxiety or depression when there is a far more simple answer.  My NP is a big one for probiotics after a course of antibiotics.

 

Aberdeen, of course you know your daughter.  People should never discount a mother's bond with their child.  We know them better than anyone. 

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Junior I so agree.   I have a friend who was diagnosed with anxiety, PTSD and depression about 3 years ago.  She was in a terrible state - she was often catatonic on the floor under her desk and I had to cover for her a lot.   She sat next to me at work and I was able to explain lots of things to her.   She resisted the drug thing and got her gut in much better order and has been improving hugely over the past couple of years.   She's now just had a baby and they are trying to get her back onto ADs because she's been a bit anxious about her breast-feeding.   She has resisted the drugs, and although she still gets anxious, she is doing well.   The biggest difference she found was having green vegetable juices regularly and getting her gut better.  She continues to work on this - she's much more diligent than I now and inspires me.

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Wow, Aberdeen, I had no idea this could happen!  I am so sorry to hear about this.  It's hard on us, but even harder when it is your child.  I have a child who is anxious also - has always been in her nature.  Of course, I had her when I was on Paxil, so it may have affected her brain development.  Sometimes, her mood echoes mine with Paxil and/or withdrawal.  I will pray for you and her.  You are doing a good job - keep her close and safe and let her rest.

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She's now just had a baby and they are trying to get her back onto ADs because she's been a bit anxious about her breast-feeding.  

Now that is just ridiculous!  At least when I was put on ADs for PPD anxiety, it was for very severe anxiety, I couldn't sleep and could hardly eat.  I'm glad she managed to avoid the ADs!

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aww man Alaska mom, now I can ruminate about that one, I was on effexor when pg with her, maybe thats why? lol...ahhh teh anxious mind. I was on a low dose throughout the pregnancy tho, and we watched for wd effects and saw none in her. My son is actually the one who has always been high strung and acts out his anxiety with a short fuse and biting his nails and just a high strung kid and I wasnt on anything with him....well, I was when he was almost 9 months old and he breastfed, but he was even a highstrung newborn. My daughter has always been calm and brave, no real fears, not shy, bolder and more confident than I was...and this is why seeing her anxious is so strange. I could be a phase, and it could be AB's, and could be both. I will just keep doing what Im doing. She seems fine today, but we'll see how it goes next week when school is back.

 

Im extra anxious and down, very wavish today, actually for the last few weeks since I had the odd migraine reaction. Hoping this all passes soon. 

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