Administrator Altostrata Posted May 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted May 20, 2011 It's an unfortunate fact that antidepressants destroy REM sleep, and sleep problems in withdrawal are a legacy of this. You may find you wake every 1.5-2 hours, and sometimes can't get back to sleep. This is because of the waves in the sleep cycle. When you rise towards the top of the cycle, which in normal people is closest to waking, you break through and wake up. You can see in the chart below that we get closest to waking around 2:30 a.m. I often wake up around this time and may not get any more sleep until perhaps the early morning hours (thanks to my blackout shades and curtain). In an otherwise bleh recent article on his Psychology Today blog, Sleep Newzzz, Michael J. Breus, Ph.D. explains REM sleep: ".... During REM sleep your brain is more active than any other stage. In fact in some cases it is MORE active than when you are awake. This activity requires fuel for thought called glucose - the basic building block of most foods. Sleep follows a very particular, and fairly predictable, cycle in most individuals each night: Your brain goes from: Wake to Stage 1, from Stage 1 to Stage 2, from Stage 2 to Stages 3 and 4, back to Stage 2 and on into REM sleep. You can see this in the graph above. But look at the yellow bar. This represents REM sleep, and notice how it gets longer and longer as the night progresses! This shows how your body gets more REM sleep in the very early morning hours. Just like riding a bike up hill, you have to climb up before you can coast down that hill, and you need to go through the first few sleep cycles to get more REM sleep. But what happens when you only get 6 hours of sleep? YOU CUT OFF THAT LAST REM PERIOD. ...." (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sleep-newzzz/201105/the-sleepweight-loss-connection) This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuroplastic Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Great info. That's exactly what I'm experiencing. The 5-6 hours upper limit has been with me for *quite* a long time now. 2000-2008 Paxil for a situational depression 2008 - Paxil c/t Severe protracted WD syndrome ever since; improving “The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once” Albert Einstein "Add signature to your profile. This way we can help you even better!" Surviving Antidepressants And, above all, ... keep walking. Just keep walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted December 20, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 20, 2012 It's an unfortunate fact that antidepressants destroy REM sleep, and sleep problems in withdrawal are a legacy of this. You may find you wake every 1.5-2 hours, and sometimes can't get back to sleep. This is because of the waves in the sleep cycle. When you rise towards the top of the cycle, which in normal people is closest to waking, you break through and wake up. You can see in the chart below that we get closest to waking around 2:30 a.m. I often wake up around this time Hi Alto This is my sleep pattern and I get up at 6 for work often not having gotten any more sleep. My question - does it get better? Does your capacity for rem sleep increase over time? I would give anything for just one week of good sleep Dalsaan Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 20, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2012 It does get better. Have you tried arginine? It's helped me get more sleep, which seems to have built up over months. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted December 21, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 21, 2012 No I haven't. Will give that a go. Thanks Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 21, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted December 21, 2012 I take a smidgen of arginine when I wake up at 3 a.m., which happens frequently. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 **smidgeon** is key. Arginine comes in 500 mg capsules...I found that 3 mg was enough!! and then it became TOO MUCH. I no longer tolerate it...so be careful. It's very powerful stuff...granted I am more sensitive then most...still I'm pretty sure Alto takes a tiny amount compared to the 500 mg as well. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 oh...but while we're at it I actually took a wee bit of Taurine and topical Magnesium Oil at 3:30 last night for the first time and that got me back to sleep for about 2 hours...I have to be really careful with Taurine too and hadn't taken it for a good long while, but it worked nicely last night...I got that suggestion on this board but I don't remember who suggested it now, sorry! the mag and taurine combo totally mellowed out my tachychardia...quite astonishing really Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted December 21, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 21, 2012 Thanks for the info Gia. Is too much over stimulating? Is that the adverse effect or should I be in the look out for other reactions? Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 yes...it had a distinct over-stimulating edge...for me it also opened me too much spiritually and just got really weird...it helped for a while...but I would use it one or two days then need a break then use it again...I knew it was going to have a time-limited life...I've learned to do this because almost everything ends up going south on me at some point (anything that has any sort of psycho active properties, anyway) Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted December 22, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 22, 2012 Just ordered some in powder form. Should make it easier to accurately measure a smidgen : ) Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I am finding that something will work great one night for getting me back to sleep and then totally fail when I try it again. The latest has been a mag/cal supplement. Last night, tried a smidgen of L'Arginine and it was a disaster. It seems I am also quite sensitive to stuff. Very frustrating. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 cs... have you tried essential oils? I'm finding certain ones as well as certain blends the most gentle and reliable substances... I have to say though...when I first started experimenting I was using a cheap (but popular) brand and they pretty much all gave me headaches (synthetics in the blend maybe) in any case the brand I've been using lately has been really wonderful and subtle (also expensive, but you can use really tiny amounts so they last)...may not alway work to get me to sleep, but it's never harsh and sometimes it's simply astonishing how helpful they are. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 cs... have you tried essential oils? I'm finding certain ones as well as certain blends the most gentle and reliable substances... I have to say though...when I first started experimenting I was using a cheap (but popular) brand and they pretty much all gave me headaches (synthetics in the blend maybe) in any case the brand I've been using lately has been really wonderful and subtle (also expensive, but you can use really tiny amounts so they last)...may not alway work to get me to sleep, but it's never harsh and sometimes it's simply astonishing how helpful they are. No, I haven't. Is there a specific brand you like? Thanks! CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Gia, Will the essential oils help with cognitive issues? One positive side effect I have noticed from taking cal/mag at night is my cognitive abilities have improved in spite of my horrific sleep. For example, I solved a problem with my Kindle after calling Amazon Kindle tech support and realizing they had no idea what they were talking about. This wouldn't have happened previously. Interestingly, when I have taken it in the morning, it has hasn't had the same effect. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I understand...I think finding an oil you resonate with could help with that...it has helped with me... they are not so much to be prescribed in general...they act individually and in the moment for that individual...I have a collection of about 6 scents now...I am learning to use them intuitively as I need them... I use Young Living...they appear to be (and probably are) a disgusting MLM company, but I love the oils...and that's just the way it is... http://www.youngliving.com/ I have also found this guys stuff very good (beware ATROCIOUS website of the distributor -- you can call for a catalog because the website is SOOO bad) https://mikaelzayat.com/ distributor in the US http://www.4dshift.com/ Anyway...they work very subtly so it makes sense they need to be high quality...there may be less expensive brands that have quality but I don't know what they are and at this point I'm happy using what works. I'm sorry I'm a bad moderator...this thread should probably be moved to the aromatherapy thread but I don't know how to do it...I will try to learn soon. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted December 22, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thanks for the link Giak. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I understand...I think finding an oil you resonate with could help with that...it has helped with me... they are not so much to be prescribed in general...they act individually and in the moment for that individual...I have a collection of about 6 scents now...I am learning to use them intuitively as I need them... I use Young Living...they appear to be (and probably are) a disgusting MLM company, but I love the oils...and that's just the way it is... http://www.youngliving.com/ I have also found this guys stuff very good (beware ATROCIOUS website of the distributor -- you can call for a catalog because the website is SOOO bad) https://mikaelzayat.com/ distributor in the US http://www.4dshift.com/ Anyway...they work very subtly so it makes sense they need to be high quality...there may be less expensive brands that have quality but I don't know what they are and at this point I'm happy using what works. I'm sorry I'm a bad moderator...this thread should probably be moved to the aromatherapy thread but I don't know how to do it...I will try to learn soon. Thanks Gia. Oh, I think I remember Young Living as I have a vague recollection ordering a product from them. LOL. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted December 24, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 24, 2012 Anyone know if there are any issues taking magnesium, taurine and arginine together? I have a mag/taurine citrus flavored powder that's tastes nice. The arginine is a powder as well which doesnt taste so good. Id like to mix the powders together but not sure if there are any issues Any advice appreciated Dalsaan Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 ...for me it also opened me too much spiritually and just got really weird. Gia, Will you PLEASE elaborate on this??! For me, the physical aspects of all of this are comprehensible. It's the bizarre, weird, spiritual(?) perceptual WOO experiences that absolutely freak me out! This is something I didn't give much thought to in the past; never experienced anything 'trippy'. Smoked pot a few times and the perceptual changes and paranoia it caused were unpleasant, not at all relaxing. To feel ungrounded and loss of sense/illusion of control, even if nobody notices, is disturbing to me. It seems that some people experience more weirdness and perceptual disturbances than others. I've suspected pineal gland is involved. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Suggestions of essential oils? Thanks. I apologize for the tangent! B Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Hi Barbara... I'm not big on going into details about the spiritual stuff...mostly just because there is no universal language and any language one chooses to use will alienate someone...I am hoping that I am able to at some point articulate better...but for now I find myself at a loss and don't really talk much about it except in vague terms and with people I know very well and feel very safe with... I will say that the essential oils are helping me move and understand and come to terms with the "spiritual stuff" I'll give you the names of the blends or oils that have been helpful to me, but really I find that it's through experimentation and intuition that I'm learning to use them... I've used from Young Living: SARA – helps move unpleasant energies through my body/mind/spirit White Angelica - helps me calm and fall and stay asleep. Joy Essential - general feel good oil...also helps move stuff at times...and can calm and help sleep too Idaho Blue Spruce - has helped with chronic pain and exhaustion...helps with some sorts of stagnant energetic stuff too...generally caught up with neuropathic pains as well Thyme -- I blend it with the spruce above for the same things the thyme and spruce need to be put in a diffuser because they'll irritate the skin...I put the rest on my skin...on pulse points etc... I've also tried two blends from MIKAEL ZAYAT... Fear Less and Anger out you can figure what those are for You don't ever need much of the stuff...and as I've said I experiment and mix and match...they've really been a massive education...incredible... I suggest going through the catalogs and seeing what else might resonate...other blends etc might be better for you... Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 25, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted December 25, 2012 dalsaan, if it works, it works! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Thanks, Gia. I understand about trying to explain or discussing the spiritual stuff. Oh yea, ANGER OUT resonates with me. I have used EOs, but only basics. It is very individual and powerful. I used to like Lavendar, but it has a negative effect on me now. I thought that I developed negative associations with it because I used it in times of bad anxiety (now I know was withdrawal). I found a Lavendar/mandarin blend that I loved, then moved to citruses. I haven't tried any other blends. A holistic veterinarian I've used developed Raindrop Therapy (Woo Alert!) and swears by Young's VALOR. It's touted as "Chiropractor in a Bottle" and also good for spiritual alignment. Thanks again. B Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 13, 2013 Author Administrator Share Posted October 13, 2013 Some good illustrations of the sleep cycle from http://www.holisticprimarycare.net/topics/topics-o-z/vitamins-a-supplements/1249-a-new-approach-to-promoting-healthy-sleep- which I believe took them from the American Academy of Sleep Medicine The AASM Manual for the Scoring of Sleep and Associated Events This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Unfortunately, I am on the dotted, erratic sleep pattern. My symptoms during the day have improved subtantially, but my sleep is VERY poor...very sad. 4 years aprox. on 150mgs.Effexor for situational major depression.No AD before.Tapered 150-0mgs in 3 months. Tapered Quetiapine,Xanax in the last 18 months.NO med of any kind anymore.First 3 months off acute w/dProtracted w/d ever since.Symptoms:Anxiety,anhedonia,insomnia,tinnitus,PSSD 04/13/2014 Awful Relapse.Recovered fairly fast. 3 years and 4 months off. waves and windows.Very much recovered. November 2015,health issue.Setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cymbaltawithdrawal5600 Posted October 14, 2013 Member Share Posted October 14, 2013 I must have remembered this posting yesterday on my travels across the net. I happened to find this interesting: http://www.larabriden.com/the-myth-of-the-8-hour-sleep/ It put me in mind of giak's recent post about 'reframing' in the context of sleep. If this person's take on the sleep patterns of our distant ancestors has any merit, it would tie in with the excellent notion of reframing your sleep experience away from the label of "broken sleep" to "periods of rest punctuated by periods of wakefulness". YMMV, of course. What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878 July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site. Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigmundFreud Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 im on the same situation with Neuroplastic i only get 4-6 hours of sleep nowadays. how can i improve it? does it resolve over time? Dec 2012 tried 10 mg Lexapro caused panic attack titrated 5 mg, and finally settling at 2.5 mg for some time Jan-May 2013 on and off carelessly experimented on doses from 1.5 mg to as high as 12.5 mg June 2013 had extreme anxiety/panic attacks/paranoia when I ran out of samples. July 7 2013 - August 10 2013 went back to 2.5 mg to relieve the anxiety and it worked until i felt restless and agitated August 11 2013 AD-free and substituted with 5-HTP and it seemed to work together with GABA after I read "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross dec 20, 2013 switched to 5mg Valium from 0.25mg-0.5mg xanax daily and felt better dec31 3.75mg V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 22, 2013 Author Administrator Share Posted November 22, 2013 4-6 hours isn't too bad. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/555-tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-withdrawal-insomnia/ This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigmundFreud Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 thanks alto. i have cal/mag/zinc+d3 can it help too? d3 as cholecalciferol 200iu 50% rda, calcium from calcium carbonate 1000mg 100% magnesium from magnesium oxide, chelate 500mg 125% zinc from zinc oxide chelate 25mg 167% betaine hcl 100mg glutamic acid hcl 100mg i also have 5-htp, GABA, l-theanine, phosphatidyylserine complex. which of these can help? been to my shink this afternoon he prescribed me benadryl could it help too? i fell asleep around 730pm and woke up 11pm tonight and it adds to the anxiety that im not gonna have sleep again for the rest of the night. any useful tips from anyone? thanks all in advance. Dec 2012 tried 10 mg Lexapro caused panic attack titrated 5 mg, and finally settling at 2.5 mg for some time Jan-May 2013 on and off carelessly experimented on doses from 1.5 mg to as high as 12.5 mg June 2013 had extreme anxiety/panic attacks/paranoia when I ran out of samples. July 7 2013 - August 10 2013 went back to 2.5 mg to relieve the anxiety and it worked until i felt restless and agitated August 11 2013 AD-free and substituted with 5-HTP and it seemed to work together with GABA after I read "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross dec 20, 2013 switched to 5mg Valium from 0.25mg-0.5mg xanax daily and felt better dec31 3.75mg V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 23, 2013 Author Administrator Share Posted November 23, 2013 Many people do well with fish oil and magnesium supplements, seehttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/ The calming effect of magnesium works best taken apart from calcium. I would not take vitamin D at night, it can be energizing. Betaine HCL is a digestive aid. Please use search to see our topics on your other supplements. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitelily Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This happened to me after a period of stressful circumstances and now my dreams are much paler, so that I can only just make out the colours and generally do not dream as much. I often am semi-conscious when I'm in bed, just with my eyes shut. I've never heard of anyone else experiencing this affect on their dreams and am sure it was the antipsychotic. Posting in case it does happen that someone else can relate. History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds). Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on. 2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg 2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg) 2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg, Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline. Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016. shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised. made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify. Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017) April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify. Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslookup Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 This explanation that antidepressants destroy REM sleep just does not make sense in my case. Maybe because I also took benzos and sleeping pills? What I experience is almost the opposite. If I understand correctly dreams occur during REM sleep and I have a lot of crazy dreams even nightmares when I wake up during the night or towards morning. The wake ups are sometimes more frequent sometimes not. But still for me the nightmare part is the most disturbing. It might have to do something with high cortisol levels and the too active alerting system problem we all have.... I just found and article which says that melatonin helps REM sleep significantly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14715839 I think I will try to stop taking my melatonin before sleep and see how that goes. Is there any other way to reduce REM sleep? Is it a good idea in my case to try to reduce it? 1st short round: from 2012 april ~ july Sertraline 50mg with 1mg Larazepam fast wd few problems 2013 may - 2014 january: 75mg Effexor XR + 1mg Rivotril + 10mg Ambien(zolpidem) 2014 january ~ june : 150mg Effexor XR + 2mg Rivotril cold turkeyed both almost at the same time (crazy wd of course) two days after cold turkey of Effexor I started 10mg of Lexapro for around a month then did a fast taper (for some days took little Ambien to combat wd) Reinstated to 1mg of Klonopin on 2015.04.23 I took the 1mg total for 10 days. I did in three divided doses 0.25 morning + 0.25 afternoon + 0.5 before sleep. Now: 1 mgs total K, divided into .75 night .25 day Started taking 3mg Lamictal on 05.07...... Slowly tiltrated up to 6mg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslookup Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I did not realize how important was to take the melatonin sooner. When I take it around 8pm it gets me sleepy and I can fall asleep much easier when I go to bed around 11pm. But my big problem is still the weird dreams....It seems like I only have REM sleep without deep sleep. It is very frustrating. Especially the weird dreams which I tend to remember until I fall back to sleep again.... I do also take magnesium citrate and lactium before sleep and when I wake up but I think I might need something stronger. Something that might help to have fewer wake ups, maybe even more deep sleep..... As I made some research about Glycine it is said to do exactly this: "Glycine, a naturally-occurring non-essential amino acid, is a new addition to the spectrum of non-pharmaceutical options for people with disordered sleep, especially those prone to waking up in the middle of the night. In high concentrations, it promotes the prolongation of stage 3-4 sleep in the first sleep cycle and prevents sleep fragmentation, without sedative or hypnotic effects." It sounds promising and since others here reported positively about it I think I might give it a try.... 1st short round: from 2012 april ~ july Sertraline 50mg with 1mg Larazepam fast wd few problems 2013 may - 2014 january: 75mg Effexor XR + 1mg Rivotril + 10mg Ambien(zolpidem) 2014 january ~ june : 150mg Effexor XR + 2mg Rivotril cold turkeyed both almost at the same time (crazy wd of course) two days after cold turkey of Effexor I started 10mg of Lexapro for around a month then did a fast taper (for some days took little Ambien to combat wd) Reinstated to 1mg of Klonopin on 2015.04.23 I took the 1mg total for 10 days. I did in three divided doses 0.25 morning + 0.25 afternoon + 0.5 before sleep. Now: 1 mgs total K, divided into .75 night .25 day Started taking 3mg Lamictal on 05.07...... Slowly tiltrated up to 6mg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted January 27, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've had some good responses from Taurine in terms of deepening my sleep Dalsaan Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted January 28, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 28, 2015 Spray on sleep anyone? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2923997/The-spray-sleep-HOUR-Two-squirts-melatonin-good-night-s-rest-claim-inventors.html **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslookup Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Oh I laughed so hard when I saw the price tag: 85$?!?! For what?? A little bit of melatotin and tyrosine in distilled water? Seems like a typical gimmick to me...If it would be 5-10$ maybe but come on.... Though there is some truth in the fact that most melatonin supplements are too strong....but as I know melatonin is not toxic anyway. And besides they say that a normal person only needs only 0.03mg but I don't think that is enough for most of us....I personally take 1.5mg and sometimes feel that even that is not enough. 1st short round: from 2012 april ~ july Sertraline 50mg with 1mg Larazepam fast wd few problems 2013 may - 2014 january: 75mg Effexor XR + 1mg Rivotril + 10mg Ambien(zolpidem) 2014 january ~ june : 150mg Effexor XR + 2mg Rivotril cold turkeyed both almost at the same time (crazy wd of course) two days after cold turkey of Effexor I started 10mg of Lexapro for around a month then did a fast taper (for some days took little Ambien to combat wd) Reinstated to 1mg of Klonopin on 2015.04.23 I took the 1mg total for 10 days. I did in three divided doses 0.25 morning + 0.25 afternoon + 0.5 before sleep. Now: 1 mgs total K, divided into .75 night .25 day Started taking 3mg Lamictal on 05.07...... Slowly tiltrated up to 6mg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts