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Do psych drugs stay In body fat for years? Released by exercise?


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#37 Rhiannon

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

Exercise causes all kinds of physiological and hormonal and neurological changes, variations in blood chemistries, etc.

 

A lot of people are intolerant of exercise in withdrawal, or have to step down to a gentler sort of exercise. I seem to recall that it causes an increase in cortisol, which would certainly be problematic for most people in withdrawal. We also become more sensitive to and intolerant of CNS stimulation in general.

 

I'm not an expert on the subject, I just know there's tons and tons of stuff out there about all the ways exercise affects us, physiologically and neurophysiologically. Books and tomes and volumes have been written on the subject. Dr. Google might have some thoughts.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#38 rapunzel2

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:54 AM

Rhi, those were good thoughts. maybe autonomic nervous system stays damaged in some way and excersize triggers this damage to be felt. 


in 2002- cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2006-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 10 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013; 4) free form amino acid complex 3 capsules 5) milk thistle 6) niacin 1500mg

25. april'13 fluoxetine 40mg -> 36mg (10%); 25. may'13 fluoxetine 36mg -> 32mg (1 month inbetween, 11%); 4. july'13 fluoxetine 32mg-> 28mg (5,5 weeks, 13%); 27. july'13 quetiapine 50 -> 45mg (10%); 15. aug'13 fluoxetine 28mg -> 24mg (6 weeks, 14%); 29. sept'13 quetiapine 45 -> 40mg (1,5 months, 11%); 14. oct'13 quetiapine 40mg -> 35mg (2 weeks, 13%); 16. oct'13 quetiapine 35mg -> 40mg; 17. oct'13 fluoxetine 24mg -> 22 mg (8%); 4. feb’14 fluoxetine 22mg -> 21mg (3,5 months hold inbetween, 5% cut); 21. feb'14 fluoxetine 21mg -> 20,5mg (2,5 weeks, 2,4% cut); 27 feb'14 fluoxetine 20,5mg -> 20mg (1 week, 2,4% cut); 30 mar'14 fluoxetine 20mg -> 19,5mg (4,5 weeks, 2,4% cut); 17 may'14 quetiapine 40mg -> 31mg (22% cut); 31 may'14 fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 17,56mg (9,9%); 13 july'14 quetiapine 31mg -> 25mg (19% cut); 19 july'14 quetiapine 25mg -> 18, 75mg (25% cut, 6 days); 28. july'14 quetiapine 18,75mg -> 22mg (-15%); 9. aug'14 fluoxetine 17,52mg -> 17,12mg (2,3% cut, 10 weeks, over 2 months); 19. aug'14 back to 17,52mg due to bad withdrawal symptoms; 20. oct'14 fluoxetine 17,52 -> 17,2mg (1,8% cut); 28. nov'14 fluoxetine 17,2 -> 15,6 (9,8%); 9. feb’15 fluoxetine 15,6 -> 14,4 (7,7%); 3. may’15 quetiapine 22mg -> 19mg (-14%); 27. may’15 fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 12,6mg (-12,5%, 1,8mg); 2. july’15 fluoxetine 12,6mg -> 10,6mg (15,9%, 2mg); 26. oct'15 fluoxetine 10,6mg - 9mg (15%, 1,6mg); 18. jan'16 quetiapine 18mg -> 15mg (17%); 16. mar'16 fluoxetine 9mg -> 7,4mg (18%); 22.may'16 fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 6mg (19%); 19.sept'16 quetiapine 12,5 -> 11,25 (10%); 26. sept'16 quetiapine 11,25 -> 10,25 (9%), 3 oct'16 quetiapine 10,25 -> 9,25 (10%); 10 oc'16 quetiapine 9,25-> 8,25mg (11%), 14 nov'16 quetiapine 8,25 -> 7,25 (12%); 9 Jan'17 fluoxetine 6mg -> 5,8mg (3%): 18 jan fluoxetine 5,8mg -> 5,6mg (3%); 6 feb fluoxetine 5,6mg -> 5,4mg (4%); 19 feb fluoxetine 5,4mg -> 5,2mg (4%); 5 mar fluox 5,2 -> 5,0 (4%). 

 


#39 techdude101

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 12:05 PM

I can cycle about 5-6 miles at an average speed of about 10-12 mph and don't experience symptoms. It only seems to be when I do sit-ups.



#40 Altostrata

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

Have you noticed that situps are quite strenuous and put pressure on various internal organs?

Many people might take an exacerbation of symptoms during intense exercise as your body telling you to go easier on it. You are free to believe the cause is outside of your control and ignore what your body's telling you if you wish.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#41 techdude101

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:00 AM

"if I take activated charcoal about an hour before doing sit-ups I don't experience any symptoms the next day."

 

I cut down to 10 sit-ups per day and still experience symptoms.

After I experience symptoms I stop doing exercise for about a week, if not longer.

I also think it's very important to listen to what your body is telling you.



#42 Altostrata

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

 Okay, we agree. Go easy on the sit-ups.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#43 InvisibleUnless

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:22 PM

im not meaning to unproductively resurrect a dead thread, but i would imagine its better than starting a redundant one, and ive never seen this discussion anywhere before (and have been searching for months).

 

in the past year or two, i have myself noticed an interesting correlation between exercise and worsening of symptoms.  this correlation was, in fact, a key component in my first wondering if im experiencing side effects/withdrawal related to my years of psychotropic usage.  that, of course, doesnt indicate an underlying causal relationship or anything, but i have interesting observations to note, at least.  these sometimes involves some researched facts (which are often fairly common, but i can cite my sources if people are wondering about any particulars)---this isnt meant to be an argument for a particular conclusion, as i really have no idea of the truth myself.

 

about the meds (i primarily focus on antipsychotics because they have been far more egregious and toxic for me personally):

 

1. antipsychotics are stored in our bodys fat cells, markedly in forms and amounts that can effectively administer a clinically significant dose even after complete discontinuation of the medication

 

2. antipsychotics also cause an increase in body fat composition, both visceral and subcutaneous, and furthermore start replacing lean tissue with unnaturally fatty tissue even if there is no net size or weight gain from the process --- this intense fat buildup will thus contain some measure of the medication, though individual dispositions (digestive and metabolic, genetic fat-compositional traits, etc) probably greatly sway just how much from individual to individual

 

about exercise and habits:

 

1. throughout my withdrawal period, i have been re-experiencing the side effects of respective medication groupings, in roughly reverse chronological order.  this is not necessarily due to layered fat storage, as it might just be general recovery, especially neuronal.  however, after even a short bout of exercise (walking, running, aerobic movements like jumping and such), i would often encounter a radical shift in the severity or nature of my withdrawal symptoms per the side effect profiles mentioned.

 

i can smell the differences between each antipsychotic in my sweat, as they impact the bodies hormonal balance, and that is a good way to keep track between phases, though most of the side effect profiles were somewhat unique in one way or another, and i can corroborate.  exercising can greatly exacerbate muscle issues like cramping, trembling, and dystonia, and wider issues like lightheadedness, nausea, circulatory difficulty, sexual dysfunction, and other symptoms directly tied to antipsychotic use.  exercise can induce an uptick that other physical and mental stressors do not match.

 

also, in addition to re-experiencing negative side effects from medications, during the first year or two of withdrawal, i also periodically experienced the highs associated with cannabis use---i had begun smoking a few years before quitting prescription psychotropics in an effort to manage my illnesses like gastro-esophageal reflux disorder and depression (and to better effect than anything else i took).  i was putting on antipsychotic weight from 2005-2011, and was partaking of weed from 2009-2011.  i always believed in people having acid flashbacks/retrips from cracking their back, and people getting a marijuana high years after quitting by losing weight, but it was certainly an interesting experience to be drug-free in every sense but periodically having the sensations of using drugs, positive and negative.

 

so, i find it interesting that there is a chronological coherence to my symptoms, and that cannabis has also been re-experienced, in that chronological way, also being a fat-soluble medication.  one could again hypothesize that it is my body readjusting to the lack of these things, and that things like the atypical antipsychotic tendency to physically shrink brain volume during usage might impact the order in which i experience recovery, but it is not really any more documented than any other theory.

 

2. dietary alterations have an immediate inflammatory and/or alleviative result at times.  this is a complicated issue, because one of the traditional side effects of atypical antipsychotics is the radical metabolic change from the body preferring to burn carbs and store fats to the opposite---burning fats and storing carbs.  if withdrawal is an experience of this side effect, in some incarnation, then alleviative experiences might not have anything to do with actual medication coursing through the bloodstream.  it is, as usual, rather interesting that my experiences of relative alleviation could also be explained as offering lipids to lipophilic medications as a means of flushing them out of my system more quickly, but its not really something easy to tell.

 

i posed to doctors the possibility of my withdrawal symptoms perhaps involving transient side effects from initial dosing, overdosing, and rapid discontinuation problems that psychotropics often give to people (as i have been working through 80 or more pounds of added fat and lean tissue replacement since quitting meds), but they all said it was utterly unthinkable beyond the first month or three.  they had no literature to cite, and these things are usually quite unpopular or illegal to seriously scientifically study, but it does seem potentially farfetched a notion, so im just shooting the **** here to see if anyone has more constructive angles or facts to frame my questions around.

 

---

 

i had more to say, but my brains are usually pretty scrambled so ill just close this for now.  id really love to hear anyones thoughts on the matter, and maybe itll jog more details or interesting tidbits free.  im not really asking for advice as to how to handle things, because doing things in measure, with balance, is usually the way to handle any of this, but experiences, observations, academic learnings...throw anything at me.


from 2005-2012, i spent 7 years taking 17 different psychotropic medications covering several classes.  i would be taking 3-7 medications at a time, and 6 out of the 17 medications listed below were maxed or overmaxed in clinical dosage before i moved on to trying the next unhelpful cocktail.
 
antidepressants (SSRIs, SNRIs, NDRIs, tetracyclics): zoloft, wellbutrin, effexor, lexapro, prozac, cymbalta, remeron
antipsychotics (atypical): abilify, zyprexa, risperdal, geodon
sleep aids (benzos, off-label antidepressants & antipsychotics, hypnotics): seroquel, temazepam, trazodone, ambien
anxiolytics: buspar
anticonvulsants: topamax
 
i tapered off all psychotropics from late 2011 through early 2013, one by one.  for all 5 years since quitting, ive been cycling through severe, disabling withdrawal symptoms spanning the gamut of the serious, less serious, and rather worrisome side effects of these assorted medications.  previous cross-tapering and medication or dosage changes had also caused undiagnosed withdrawal symptoms.
 
brainpan addlepation


#44 downtongirl

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:30 AM

I find this thread very interesting...I personally believe for myself there is a correlation between diet and exercise making my withdrawal symptoms worse.  I am not saying that there aren't other factors because I know the length of time I used these medications...20 years, my way to quick taper, and the uncertain nature of delayed on set withdrawals, and the waves/windows pattern of withdrawal  definitely are to blame but there is a factual evidence based pattern for my thoughts....I quit prozac which I used as a bridge to get off of effexor xr late september 2015....was doing much better until I went to the gym and did three days in a row of elliptical work and weight lifting...keep in mind I did ZERO regular exercise at all...not even walking...bam I get hit with withdrawal....I take a hydroxyzine and it goes away....everything goes well for a month and I decide to return to the gym....did same thing....3 days of same exercise as previously mentioned and bam withdrawal kicks in....I take a hydroxyzine again and it goes away....about 2 weeks later I begin walking...one hour on day one, 30 minutes the next day, third day 30 minutes first thing in the morning before eating and cut back on carbs and increase protein and bam withdrawal hits....I also notice when I eat carbs my withdrawal symptoms are better.  I know carbohydrates help raise serotonin levels in our bodies so for me I do believe exercise and reduction in carbs bring on waves of withdrawal for me...now I am not sure if it is just too much stimulation to my central nervous system or if my body's metabolism kicks into a higher gear and minute trace amounts of the metabolite of norofluoxitine (sp?) are being expelled which resigns to my brain less serotonin and kicks in withdrawals again.


1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 


#45 neveragain123

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 07:35 AM

The only reason I signed up today was to post on this topic. I stopped Cymbalta in August 2011 because I could not lose weight.  Once I stopped I lost 20 pounds quickly and went through withdrawal which was difficult but I decided it was better than being overweight.  I then took 25 mg of Elavil to help with fibromyalgia, hot flashes, and sleep, but I was still 20 pounds overweight so I decided in August of 2015 to stop the Elavil. No trouble coming off that. Then in October I started Weight Watchers and lost a pound a week. I have lost 13 pounds and and plan to lose 11 more.

 

Last week I went on vacation and put the diet on hold for a week, resulting in no weight loss for that week.  At the end of the week I started to have some very severe symptoms. Not in my wildest imaginations did I associate it with withdrawal. I thought I was having a heart attack- nausea, vomitting, uncontrollable shaking, severe pain in head and chest, blood pressure high, cardiac arrythmias, rapid heartbeat. I was admitted to the hospital and all tests were negative- my heart is back to normal. I am getting more tests this week, and a 24 hour EKG. During my hospital stay I was unable to eat due to an aversion to food- very unusual for me.  Then I started having lots of brain zaps just like the withdrawal in 2011. That's when I googled Cymbalta stored in fat cells and found this website.

 

I am wondering if losing weight steadily since October reintroduced stored Cymbalta into my system, then when I stopped dieting for a week, the Cymbalta flow stopped and I went through withdrawal again.

 

If the drug is stored in fat cells and you need to take it for a 2 weeks or so to get the effect of it, it seems to me that the storage of it does have an effect on the body in a psychotropic way- it has to- otherwise why would you need to take it for two weeks or more to get the therapeutic effect?

 

I hope this helps someone else make sense of his/her own experience.  I am never going on these drugs again. I also wonder how common the weight gain is with these drugs!



#46 Altostrata

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 01:09 PM

If you read this topic from the beginning (and you should), you will see there is not much substance to the idea that psychiatric drugs are stored in fat cells.

 

Rather, something else has occurred to destabilize your nervous system and revive withdrawal syndrome. Please start a topic for yourself in the Introductions forum http://survivinganti...ns-and-updates/to discuss this.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#47 Cressida

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 04:21 AM

The only reason I signed up today was to post on this topic. I stopped Cymbalta in August 2011 because I could not lose weight. Once I stopped I lost 20 pounds quickly and went through withdrawal which was difficult but I decided it was better than being overweight. I then took 25 mg of Elavil to help with fibromyalgia, hot flashes, and sleep, but I was still 20 pounds overweight so I decided in August of 2015 to stop the Elavil. No trouble coming off that. Then in October I started Weight Watchers and lost a pound a week. I have lost 13 pounds and and plan to lose 11 more.

Last week I went on vacation and put the diet on hold for a week, resulting in no weight loss for that week. At the end of the week I started to have some very severe symptoms. Not in my wildest imaginations did I associate it with withdrawal. I thought I was having a heart attack- nausea, vomitting, uncontrollable shaking, severe pain in head and chest, blood pressure high, cardiac arrythmias, rapid heartbeat. I was admitted to the hospital and all tests were negative- my heart is back to normal. I am getting more tests this week, and a 24 hour EKG. During my hospital stay I was unable to eat due to an aversion to food- very unusual for me. Then I started having lots of brain zaps just like the withdrawal in 2011. That's when I googled Cymbalta stored in fat cells and found this website.

I am wondering if losing weight steadily since October reintroduced stored Cymbalta into my system, then when I stopped dieting for a week, the Cymbalta flow stopped and I went through withdrawal again.

If the drug is stored in fat cells and you need to take it for a 2 weeks or so to get the effect of it, it seems to me that the storage of it does have an effect on the body in a psychotropic way- it has to- otherwise why would you need to take it for two weeks or more to get the therapeutic effect?

I hope this helps someone else make sense of his/her own experience. I am never going on these drugs again. I also wonder how common the weight gain is with these drugs!

Much more likely to be change of diet. Know it seems hard to believe. Happened to me twice and now I am very very careful all the time. There are various threads on food sensitivities. I was two years off drugs when I had first major reaction. The second six months later. There are also lots of threads on weight gain on these drugs its extremely common. Hope you re ok. Those experiences are terrifying

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 


#48 genlady

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 08:50 PM

There is evidence that toxins are released back into the bloodstream during weight loss.  To me this would include the toxins we have accured from the use of psychiatric drugs.  The past year I have lost one hundred pounds while coming off Seroquel and Morphine.  I'm sure there were toxins stored in that fat and were released back into my bloodstream, therefore causing more withdrawals symptoms than if I had not lost the weight.  I would like to hear anyones thoughts on this.  I have another one hundred pounds to lose and I'm not looking forward to ongoing withdrawals because of it.  

 

 

 

http://www.medpageto...talhealth/22080


Medications:  Trazodone, Lamotrigine, Klonopin for over 10 years   all at maximum dosages,:Disconcontinued Klonopin in month of February 2011,  discontinued Trazodone and Lamotrigine   in month of March 2011 while in hosptial.  Given Seroquel to "help" go off Klonopin  gradually increased to 600 mg ; doctor took me off 600 mg. Seroquel in two weeks, and switched to Resperidal  because of weight gain on Seroquel, went off Resperidal quickly,   then gradually reinstated  Seroquel to 600 mg. at my request.   Went off Seroquel by myself at 25mg. per month in 2014.     Last medication Seroquel completely off since May 2016. Also went off Morphine at the same time as last 25 mg. of Seroquel in May 2016. Started tapering 40mg. to 35mg. Celexa on 11 Aug. 2016  ; 16 Oct. Celexa 32.5 mg.; 6 Nov. 2016:  30mg.

 

Supplements :Xiao yao San; Magnesium: 500mg. three x   day., Omega 3's: 3,000 mg.

 2 Multi-Vitamin,Vitamin D: 500 mg. 3x day, calcium citrate, potassium. Glycine 1000mg.

Medications presently taking:  Celexa 30mg. ., Lyrica 150mg. 2x day  , Synthroid 175mcg, Tylenol 3's  every four hours.  ,  anarca  ; Nasonex 2 sprays each nostril, once a day    :wub:

  

 


#49 ChessieCat

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 09:44 PM

Hi genlady,

 

If you haven't got time to read this whole topic check out Alto's posts 8, 12, 22, 27, 29 & 31 and Rhiannon's post 33.

 

"causing more withdrawals symptoms"

 

From Post #12:

 

"This argument makes no sense at all. Withdrawal syndrome comes from the ABSENCE of a drug, not its presence. If a drug is stored in fat, it would slowly be metabolized, which, like tapering, would cushion withdrawal, not initiate it."
 

From Post #46:

 

"If you read this topic from the beginning (and you should), you will see there is not much substance to the idea that psychiatric drugs are stored in fat cells.

 

Rather, something else has occurred to destabilize your nervous system and revive withdrawal syndrome."


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 28mg (from 3 March 17)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#50 Evoldnahturt

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:52 PM

...so I decided in August of 2015 to stop the Elavil. 

 

This seems like the most likely cause of those symptoms.


- 2002-2015: Zyprexa (Olanzapine), between 2.5mg to 5mg

- 9/15-2/16: Started a taper that jumped up and down quickly for five months.  Got really sick.  Took Xanax sporadically throughout taper.  Stopping taking Xanax in January 2016.

- 2/14/16: Increased dose to 3.75mg and held for two months, quickly got better at first and then slowly continued to get better after that

- April 2016: 3.375mg

- May 2016: 3.03mg

- June 2016: 2.73mg

- 8/18/16: 2.5mg

- 10/1/16: 2.25mg

- 11/1/16: 2.03mg

- 12/1/16: 1.82mg

- 2/1/17 1.64mg

- 3/1/17 1.47mg


#51 reachingforthestars

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 09:27 PM

Hi genlady,

 

If you haven't got time to read this whole topic check out Alto's posts 8, 12, 22, 27, 29 & 31 and Rhiannon's post 33.

 

"causing more withdrawals symptoms"

 

From Post #12:

 

"This argument makes no sense at all. Withdrawal syndrome comes from the ABSENCE of a drug, not its presence. If a drug is stored in fat, it would slowly be metabolized, which, like tapering, would cushion withdrawal, not initiate it."
 

From Post #46:

 

"If you read this topic from the beginning (and you should), you will see there is not much substance to the idea that psychiatric drugs are stored in fat cells.

 

Rather, something else has occurred to destabilize your nervous system and revive withdrawal syndrome."

 

Adverse reaction and withdrawal symptoms can be very similar. Maybe it is possible to get adverse reaction if ssri stored in fat suddenly release? 


Citalopram 40mg from 2003-2015

Jan 2015 started tapering first dropped to 35mgFeb 30mg, March 25mgApril 20mg, May 17,5mg, June 15mgJuly 12,5mg, Aug 12,5mg,

Sep 0mg for 5 days because of stomac flu and after I raised to 7,5mg. All the symptoms of acute WD shaking, diarrhea, vomiting, barely could walk ect. Still didn't realize that it wasn't only stomac flu but I was also going through WD.

Oct 2,5mg and crashed again badly and quickly raised to 4mg. It was then when I knew my symptoms were due to WD.

Then in November after a month holding on 4mg raised to 5mg due to muscle weakness and had a VERY BAD reaction to reinstatement: akathisia(lasted for one or two weeks), insomnia, anhedonia... Drop quicly back to 4mg, Dec 3mg

Jan 2016 2,6mg( in the middle of Jan after I had been on 2,6mg for a week I tried to updose to 2,8mg and immediately had bad reaction to it: akathisia for a day, andehonia got worse. The next day dropped back to 2,6mg), Feb 2,4mg( a new symptom PGAD lasted 24/7 for 2 months after that on and off), March 2,4mg, April 2,3mg, May 2,2mg, June 2,1mg, July 2,0mg( Pgad almost nonexisting, sleeping pretty good, still some anhedonia but there has been a lot of gradual progress), Aug 1,97mg-1,89mg, Sep 1,88mg-1,49mg, Oct 1,48mg- 1,70mg,

Nov 0,65mg- current dose 0,5mg

 


#52 Cavernio

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:33 AM

This argument makes no sense at all. Withdrawal syndrome comes from the ABSENCE of a drug, not its presence. If a drug is stored in fat, it would slowly be metabolized, which, like tapering, would cushion withdrawal, not initiate it. Fat solubility or water solubility of the drug is not relevant to withdrawal syndrome. This is yet another bit of misinformation about withdrawal syndrome that seems to get recirculated constantly. While Dr. Lee-Bloem may be commended for making an effort to understand withdrawal syndrome, her reasoning regarding this is questionable. She is correct, however, in that the effects of the drugs tend to dysregulate neurological and endocrinological processes -- and this is highly relevant to withdrawal syndrome.

 

Withdrawal happens neither from the presence nor absence of a drug but a combination of first one then the other. Secondly, you are simply assuming that a drug would be slowly metabolized were it store in fat cells, with little evidence from this except, presumably, lay-person 'knowledge' that fat gets burnt for calories, and that the sole thing a fat cell does is sit there waiting to give energy. Thirdly, if your second assumption -were- correct, then ABSOLUTELY there would be withdrawal if you burnt a bunch of fat off in your system, preceded by the effects of the drug. 

 

http://www.able.org/...rug_storage.pdf

 

If you bother to read this, you'll discover that the dysregulation happens because of the interaction with the fat cells themselves. Withdrawal  symptoms from street drugs has clearly been linked to interaction of the drug with fat cells.



#53 Cavernio

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:41 AM

 

The only reason I signed up today was to post on this topic. I stopped Cymbalta in August 2011 because I could not lose weight. Once I stopped I lost 20 pounds quickly and went through withdrawal which was difficult but I decided it was better than being overweight. I then took 25 mg of Elavil to help with fibromyalgia, hot flashes, and sleep, but I was still 20 pounds overweight so I decided in August of 2015 to stop the Elavil. No trouble coming off that. Then in October I started Weight Watchers and lost a pound a week. I have lost 13 pounds and and plan to lose 11 more.

Last week I went on vacation and put the diet on hold for a week, resulting in no weight loss for that week. At the end of the week I started to have some very severe symptoms. Not in my wildest imaginations did I associate it with withdrawal. I thought I was having a heart attack- nausea, vomitting, uncontrollable shaking, severe pain in head and chest, blood pressure high, cardiac arrythmias, rapid heartbeat. I was admitted to the hospital and all tests were negative- my heart is back to normal. I am getting more tests this week, and a 24 hour EKG. During my hospital stay I was unable to eat due to an aversion to food- very unusual for me. Then I started having lots of brain zaps just like the withdrawal in 2011. That's when I googled Cymbalta stored in fat cells and found this website.

I am wondering if losing weight steadily since October reintroduced stored Cymbalta into my system, then when I stopped dieting for a week, the Cymbalta flow stopped and I went through withdrawal again.

If the drug is stored in fat cells and you need to take it for a 2 weeks or so to get the effect of it, it seems to me that the storage of it does have an effect on the body in a psychotropic way- it has to- otherwise why would you need to take it for two weeks or more to get the therapeutic effect?

I hope this helps someone else make sense of his/her own experience. I am never going on these drugs again. I also wonder how common the weight gain is with these drugs!

 

 

I suggest looking up things like withdrawal from street drugs that are fat soluble. That is going to get you personal anecdotes.

 

I have food sensitivities and they have never once resulted in something akin to my various medication withdrawal except for 'headache'. 



#54 stan

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:24 AM

if antidepressant is stored in fat cells, 

 

to be active, they have to be a normal amount  about 20 mg for example , they have a life-time, you need again to give 20 new mg each day or the effects will not be effective on synaptycs to close them, for the neurotransmitters to bath in this chemical product

 

so, in fat there is maybe 1mg, how can this small nano amount go on neurones, you need 20 mg , 40 mg each day

 

for me, in fat or not, the amount is very very small 

i think as Alto, it is the lack of chemical which gives withdrawal


for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 7 years 2 months med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

muscles pain..fatigue...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#55 Cavernio

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 09:16 AM

if antidepressant is stored in fat cells, 

 

to be active, they have to be a normal amount  about 20 mg for example , they have a life-time, you need again to give 20 new mg each day or the effects will not be effective on synaptycs to close them, for the neurotransmitters to bath in this chemical product

 

so, in fat there is maybe 1mg, how can this small nano amount go on neurones, you need 20 mg , 40 mg each day

 

for me, in fat or not, the amount is very very small 

i think as Alto, it is the lack of chemical which gives withdrawa

 

There are soooo many fallacies with what you just said.

 

Withdrawal of a drug does not have to be related to its therapeutic effect. People can become addicted to things all the time without noticing the effect of the item at all. All it takes is to slowly buildup the drug in the system then remove it quickly. Furthermore, antidepressants themselves are not being used for their primary function. For instance, ADHD drugs take effect immediately (well, immediately in comparison to antidepressants) because the drug's effect itself is what it therapeutic. It is absolutely, utterly clear that the therapeutic effect of antidepressants is a secondary aspect of the increase of serotonin (well, for SSRIs). 

 

I mean, really, using your logic, when one immediately stops the drug, all those extra synapses and stuff would die off in order to experience the withdrawal. That doesn't happen if only because cells don't work that way. Withdrawal from antidepressants occurs pretty much immediately from stopping them.

 

I bet you anything that someone could be taking 10mg/day of an antidepressant whose therapeutic dose is 20mg, notice nothing, yet go through withdrawal when they suddenly stop that 10mg. In fact, for all those people who receive no therapeutic effect of antidepressants, why then, would there be withdrawal at ALL, if I were to use your logic of how withdrawal works?

 

Lastly, you are making some pretty erroneous assumptions about how the body works. You are assuming that when someone takes 20mg of a drug, they are using those 20mg of that drug right then, that like most of it gets absorbed and used immediately. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps antidepressants work only after 3 weeks because they need to become stored in fat and other cells in the first place, thereby affecting the signals that those cells sends out, and that THAT'S what  causes the antidepressant properties? 

 

 

 Whatever terminology your psychiatrist has told you in regards to how they work and why they work, is BS. People no more know precisely why they work than why they don't work in some people. What we DO know is that the categories of drugs do what they say they do. That doesn't mean we know all that the drug does, nor all that the drug affects. 

 

 

To address your biggest point head on now, that even if all of what I said above ends up being wrong, that sure, you need to take 20mg, it gets used at once, it doesn't get stored, a fat cell would only release a fraction of that, so how on earth could that trigger anything? Actually, what we -do- know about withdrawal, supports that one would get withdrawal symptoms EXPLICITLY when exposed to only a tiny amount of the drug.  Withdrawal is simply the body preparing itself to receive the drug. The moment the body thinks 'hey, I'm going to be getting this thing, I'd better get ready now', it goes through steps as if it were getting the drug. When we receive the drug, this step is called 'tolerance.' But if, suddenly, it doesn't get nearly the quantity the body had anticipated, the experience is one of withdrawal.

You don't believe this about withdrawal? Most of our information about withdrawal comes from illegal drug users who become addicts. All it takes for these people is to be in the mere surroundings of where they once would use their drug to illicit withdrawal and cravings. Why? Their mental perception of being there triggers internally an automatic signal of 'ok, get ready, the person's going to be using drugs now', and all the biological processes that the body would go through in order to adapt to receiving the drug begin. If something as slight as seeing a room, or a smell, can trigger such a strong biological reaction, clearly something like -actually receiving some of the drug- will also trigger this. It is the same mechanism by which we build tolerance. The fact that quitting something causes withdrawal immediately is a sign that our body has built up a tolerance. That is why when you start a drug you get side-effects, but as you keep taking it they go away, your body adjusts. 

 

 

Alto assumes for some reason that if the drug were stored in fat that it would simply get released in some sort of gradual, continually graded release, as that is literally the only way that a drug staying in one's fat cells would not ever be involved in withdrawal. But there is literally no evidence of this. 



#56 Altostrata

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 05:03 PM

Cavernio, no one knows exactly what mechanism underlies withdrawal symptoms from any drug.

 

Whether or not psychoactive drugs are stored in body fat, and whether or not they are released gradually, most likely this is an insignificant factor in withdrawal symptoms as the action of the drugs in the nervous system is much, much greater.

 

If drugs are released quickly from fat, that might minutely accelerate acute withdrawal symptoms. If drugs are released slowly from fat, all the better: That would make decrease of the drug in the body slightly more gradual.

 

As for the action of psychoactive drugs on the endocrine system via fat cells -- again, the direct action of drugs on glands is much, much greater. They are systemic, after all.

 

Even "known" endocrine functions, such as the insulin cycle, are poorly understood; drug actions on the endocrine system within cells even less so.

 

Point being: Storage of psychoactive drugs in body fat is probably irrelevant. This is one of those Internet memes that goes around and around, causing endless half-baked "research" and speculation and, not incidentally, frightening people who are in the habit of being frightened.

 

Please start a topic for yourself in the Introductions forum. This is a site for going off psychiatric drugs. I hope you have joined for that purpose and not for participating in a topic that no one, not even you, knows anything about and is one of those big fat Internet time sucks.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#57 Cavernio

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 10:29 PM

Citing research and describing what we -define- withdrawal and tolerance as, and then using that to describe why people can be getting the symptoms they are is fear-mongering? I joined in on the conversation because I truly think this is useful information, and it is clear that plenty of people here do not understand that basics of drug dependence. 

Oh yeah, I didn't cite stuff about withdrawal and tolerance because I learned that in my B. Sc. Psychology. Just like I wouldn't cite something to say that the hippocampus is crucial to our memory, or that the substantia nigra is damaged in people with parkinson's disease. 



#58 reachingforthestars

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:05 AM

Livestock can have traces of drugs stored in the fat tissue and that's why in Finland they take samples from fat tissue of the butchered livestock to measure that the amount isn't too big.

 

So i think that it is possible humans as well to store SSRI in their fat tissue, but for how long after quitting SSRI I don't know. 


Citalopram 40mg from 2003-2015

Jan 2015 started tapering first dropped to 35mgFeb 30mg, March 25mgApril 20mg, May 17,5mg, June 15mgJuly 12,5mg, Aug 12,5mg,

Sep 0mg for 5 days because of stomac flu and after I raised to 7,5mg. All the symptoms of acute WD shaking, diarrhea, vomiting, barely could walk ect. Still didn't realize that it wasn't only stomac flu but I was also going through WD.

Oct 2,5mg and crashed again badly and quickly raised to 4mg. It was then when I knew my symptoms were due to WD.

Then in November after a month holding on 4mg raised to 5mg due to muscle weakness and had a VERY BAD reaction to reinstatement: akathisia(lasted for one or two weeks), insomnia, anhedonia... Drop quicly back to 4mg, Dec 3mg

Jan 2016 2,6mg( in the middle of Jan after I had been on 2,6mg for a week I tried to updose to 2,8mg and immediately had bad reaction to it: akathisia for a day, andehonia got worse. The next day dropped back to 2,6mg), Feb 2,4mg( a new symptom PGAD lasted 24/7 for 2 months after that on and off), March 2,4mg, April 2,3mg, May 2,2mg, June 2,1mg, July 2,0mg( Pgad almost nonexisting, sleeping pretty good, still some anhedonia but there has been a lot of gradual progress), Aug 1,97mg-1,89mg, Sep 1,88mg-1,49mg, Oct 1,48mg- 1,70mg,

Nov 0,65mg- current dose 0,5mg

 


#59 reachingforthestars

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:44 AM

 

"The present study shows that lipolysis enhances the release of THC from fat stores back into blood. This suggests the likelihood of ‘reintoxication’ whereby food deprivation or stress may raise blood THC levels in animals chronically exposed to the drug." 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2782342/


Citalopram 40mg from 2003-2015

Jan 2015 started tapering first dropped to 35mgFeb 30mg, March 25mgApril 20mg, May 17,5mg, June 15mgJuly 12,5mg, Aug 12,5mg,

Sep 0mg for 5 days because of stomac flu and after I raised to 7,5mg. All the symptoms of acute WD shaking, diarrhea, vomiting, barely could walk ect. Still didn't realize that it wasn't only stomac flu but I was also going through WD.

Oct 2,5mg and crashed again badly and quickly raised to 4mg. It was then when I knew my symptoms were due to WD.

Then in November after a month holding on 4mg raised to 5mg due to muscle weakness and had a VERY BAD reaction to reinstatement: akathisia(lasted for one or two weeks), insomnia, anhedonia... Drop quicly back to 4mg, Dec 3mg

Jan 2016 2,6mg( in the middle of Jan after I had been on 2,6mg for a week I tried to updose to 2,8mg and immediately had bad reaction to it: akathisia for a day, andehonia got worse. The next day dropped back to 2,6mg), Feb 2,4mg( a new symptom PGAD lasted 24/7 for 2 months after that on and off), March 2,4mg, April 2,3mg, May 2,2mg, June 2,1mg, July 2,0mg( Pgad almost nonexisting, sleeping pretty good, still some anhedonia but there has been a lot of gradual progress), Aug 1,97mg-1,89mg, Sep 1,88mg-1,49mg, Oct 1,48mg- 1,70mg,

Nov 0,65mg- current dose 0,5mg

 


#60 Annabee

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 10:40 PM

Interesting thread.

I recently had an adverse reaction to an antipshotic after being on it for 3 weeks.I had rls at 20 mg but when it was upped to 40 I got full blown akathisia.Ive been off the pill for 2 months and the akathsia is still here full force from the adverse reaction.

Can there still be some stored in my far over being on it for just 3 weeks?

Thoughts?

#61 thankfulmomof5

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

I signed up after reading this thread because I'm personally experiencing withdrawal symptoms years after taking Zoloft for my post partum depression. I feel I may have something to add that can help others going through the same struggles.

 

I know there is little scientific evidence to support the idea that SSRI's store in fat, but from what I've experienced there is no doubt in my mind that they do. I was given Zoloft during my third pregnancy for depression and anxiety. If I had known any of the side effects I would NEVER have taken it, especially during my pregnancy. My son was born on Zoloft and had no reflexes, floppy baby syndrome, and has struggled emotionally through his life. For myself, I'll never forget the burning Zoloft caused in my brain, along with terrible brain zaps.

 

When I weaned myself off years ago the withdrawal was beyond any nightmare I could have had. The zaps became overwhelming and along with the zaps I had terrible thoughts and hallucinations. I really wanted to die during that time, but had little ones so I fought through it.

 

I have been doing amazing since then, but recently began working out and losing weight. I decided to try and get rid of my baby belly and was very successful, losing over half of it. However, one day about 3 months ago I suddenly began having brain zaps, anxiety and scary thoughts that came out of the blue. Then the burning returned and that's what opened my eyes to what was happening. I had lost a large amount of fat in a short time period, primarily from my stomach which would have been left from the time of my pregnancies and the time I took Zoloft. I am certain that the SSRI got released back into my system and wreaked havoc on my serotonin levels.

 

However, I wanted to see if there was a way to confirm this, so I went to 2 different natural doctors since the medical won't acknowledge that this happens. One doctor did a live blood analysis on me to see what would show up. This is a test where a black light is shone onto a sample of your blood under a very powerful microscope. I could see my blood on the screen and there were tons of these strange neon green glowing particles all over the place among my red and white blood cells. The doctor told me those are chemicals/medication which is why they glow. I haven't taken any kind of medication since Zoloft because of what it did to me so the only thing it could be is drugs that released when I lost so much weight.

 

I have been slowly making my way through this withdrawal process again and I've found some natural things that help, GABA being the most effective for me. I've also been detoxing this medication from my body with chlorella and cilantro and lots of healthy exercise and food. It's not an easy process but I have hope because there's an end in sight and I have lots of support. If you're experiencing this I pray my story will give you hope.


Edited by scallywag, 11 January 2017 - 10:44 AM.
paragraph breaks


#62 Jayjohnny

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:02 PM

From personal experience, I would venture to guess that indeed they can stay in fat cells for years. Also, in the brain/gut pathway.
2005: Began switching from one ssri to the next. Very little tapering time was instructed by my psychiatrist. Tried just about every drug on the market. Some two or three times. Nothing reallly helped my moderate depression and anxiety. They only made things worse most of the time!!
2014: Began experiencing severe symptoms while still taking Zoloft, oddly enough. Was forced to quit drugs altogether.
2017: A new year begins having experienced substantial improvement. Still not sure if my symptoms were severe protracted withdrawal or a severe reaction to a med, or possibly a combination of each.

#63 Evoldnahturt

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:02 AM

I have been doing amazing since then, but recently began working out and losing weight.

 
It seems more likely that over-exercise is what stressed your nervous system and caused the symptoms to come back.  This is a known trigger.
 
 

One doctor did a live blood analysis on me to see what would show up. This is a test where a black light is shone onto a sample of your blood under a very powerful microscope. I could see my blood on the screen and there were tons of these strange neon green glowing particles all over the place among my red and white blood cells. The doctor told me those are chemicals/medication which is why they glow. I haven't taken any kind of medication since Zoloft because of what it did to me so the only thing it could be is drugs that released when I lost so much weight.

 

Animal products have antibiotics and other drugs in them.  There are loads of chemicals in most foods, in the air we breathe, laundry detergent, topical creams, oils, and makeup, etc.  Unless you test the levels of Zoloft in your blood, I don't believe you can know that Zoloft is in your system.

 


- 2002-2015: Zyprexa (Olanzapine), between 2.5mg to 5mg

- 9/15-2/16: Started a taper that jumped up and down quickly for five months.  Got really sick.  Took Xanax sporadically throughout taper.  Stopping taking Xanax in January 2016.

- 2/14/16: Increased dose to 3.75mg and held for two months, quickly got better at first and then slowly continued to get better after that

- April 2016: 3.375mg

- May 2016: 3.03mg

- June 2016: 2.73mg

- 8/18/16: 2.5mg

- 10/1/16: 2.25mg

- 11/1/16: 2.03mg

- 12/1/16: 1.82mg

- 2/1/17 1.64mg

- 3/1/17 1.47mg


#64 thankfulmomof5

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:48 AM

I thought about that too, that it could be something else I was seeing, but there was too much of it, all the same color and approximate size. I don't eat much meat and we eat organic food due to the antibiotic problem. I also only have natural cleaners in our house. I know chemical exposure happens in our environment, but there was too much of it for that to be an explanation. This doctor does many of these and was shocked by how much there was, indicating that the amount in my system wasn't the norm. Other substances will be different colors, this was all the same. Since my symptoms are those of Zoloft withdrawal and I don't and haven't taken any medications since then, I can only assume I saw the drug floating around in my system, and lots of it. I know the only way to know for sure is to test for Zoloft, but putting two and two together there is no other explanation for me.

As for exercise, I've been working out on and off for a long time with no side effects, sometimes more intense, sometimes less. My symptoms conincide exactly with when I lost the fat on my stomach. If exercise was the trigger I should have had this happen a long time ago. I'm thankful for your input, though. It's important to look at this from all angles.