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How long does it take to stabilize after reinstating or updosing?


John

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misterZ, please see this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1122-tips-for-tapering-off-lamictal-lamotrigine/

 

You might put that post in the Intro forum as your Intro topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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  • 1 year later...

Dear Fellow Survivors:

 

Do most of you stabilize after a dose reduction and notice an improvement of WD sxs? How long does it typically take to stabilize (e.g., weeks...months)?

 

The reason I'm asking is because when I was tapering Klonopin I typically did not stabilize. However, because I felt better so much better with each drop, I continued to taper without waiting to stabilize.

 

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

Sunflower

1998-2010. Zoloft 100 mgs.

3/2010. Switched to generic Z and began not to feel well.

7/2010. Estrogen patch added which caused severe depression.

8/2010 to 10/2010. Zoloft increased from 100 mgs to 200 mgs., Klonopin .25 mgs in am; .50 mgs pm; Remeron

.25 mgs. added by new doc

1/2011. Began tapering K; last dose of K 7/2011.

11/2011 Began Remeron taper; last dose of R 1/2012 (Tapered K & R by dry cutting)

1/2013 Began tapering Z from 200 mgs to 100 mgs by dry cutting

3/2013. Experiencing wd sx...took break

9/2013. Down to 150 mgs.

2/2014 - Present. 100 mgs Z

1-21-15. Began dry cutting 100 mgs.

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Hi, sunflower. From what I've seen, most people stabilize within a few days after a reduction. Some do not feel it at all.

 

I changed the title of this topic because I think that there's a lot of variation and the experience of others will be very informative.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Dear Altostrata,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Sunflower

1998-2010. Zoloft 100 mgs.

3/2010. Switched to generic Z and began not to feel well.

7/2010. Estrogen patch added which caused severe depression.

8/2010 to 10/2010. Zoloft increased from 100 mgs to 200 mgs., Klonopin .25 mgs in am; .50 mgs pm; Remeron

.25 mgs. added by new doc

1/2011. Began tapering K; last dose of K 7/2011.

11/2011 Began Remeron taper; last dose of R 1/2012 (Tapered K & R by dry cutting)

1/2013 Began tapering Z from 200 mgs to 100 mgs by dry cutting

3/2013. Experiencing wd sx...took break

9/2013. Down to 150 mgs.

2/2014 - Present. 100 mgs Z

1-21-15. Began dry cutting 100 mgs.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You might enjoy reading through this topic:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3949-what-does-stabilizing-mean/

 

I'm doing a micro taper and I adjust my cuts and holds according to life stressors and how I'm feeling. Seems like I generally feel the cuts within two to four days after making them, and then I hold for however long it takes (usually a week or two, with the micro cuts). I definitely do stabilize and feel better, although if I know I have a period of time with not much stress coming up, I will push it and make a couple more small cuts before I'm fully at my best. I know I'm going to feel crappy for a while as a result but I know I will hold and it will pass.

 

When I hold for a longer period I am (so far) always rewarded with a spell of feeling pretty good, which lasts even after I start cutting again, for a while.

 

I have always felt better after holds and I have never done well with the "keep cutting even if you're suffering" approach, although some people apparently do okay with that. As always, our own bodies are the experts.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I used to notice my drops somewhere after the first week. I will wake up extra anxious and feel more jumpy and shakey, with DR...for a few days. Once i got below 3mg or so, Ive noticed the symptoms take longer to show up. Also in there, have been random spells where I just get a wave, be it depression, higher anxiety, DR, in any combination, and there seems to be no connection to any specific timeframe...it might last  a few weeks, or just a few days. When I have these spells, and its time to drop, I will sometimes wait another week and re-assess. I cant say my drops are causing much issue. My biggest issue is anhedonia and anger...and that I think has to do with the situation that occured prior to my tapering. I had a tolerance reaction to Effexor, it was intense and horriible and caused me to come off much too fast and then switch around a few meds all in 3 months time, which made everything worse. By the time i started tapering, i was already in a scenario of seeing windows and waves, and having anhedonia creeping up for the long haul, so I  cant ever say Im 100% between drops, for that reason. I drop 10% every 4-5 weeks, sometimes longer.

2 Timothy 1-7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Effexor 75mg to 262.5mg 2005-2010 for post partum depression

Started having poop out mid 2010, also switched generic brands, then crashed in Dec 2010 (anxiety/ "terror", intense DR, anhedonia, suicidal ideation, chills, insomnia, horrible intrusive thoughts, disorientation, ect)
Rapid "tapered" from 262.5mg Effexor in 3 months

Tried Celexa,Cipralex, then Paxil to deal with wd(this switching made things worse and added akathesia)

Found online support and started tapering Paxil 7 months after quitting Effexor (at this point was having small windows).

Paxil taper: dropped 10% every 4-8 weeks

Year 1 October 2011 to Nov 2012 20mg to 10mg

Year 2 March 2013 to Feb 2014 10mg to 4mg

Year 3 April 2014 to May 2015 4mg to 1.1mg

Year 4 June 2015 1.1mg , dropping by 10% until .5mg, after then dropped by 0.1mg every 5 weeks until 0.1mg.

Finished! Official last dose of 0.1mg on June 15/16

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It's been forever since I've checked in. Have been strongly considering beginning my taper now. I've honestly been scared to try as I don't want to go through the HELL I went through before.  Hopefully, with the help from my holistic doctor, I can finally rid myself of this nightmare . . .

 

-Tim 

10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac Jan. 2009-Nov. 2012

Went COLD TURKEY Nov. 2012-March 2013

.05-1 mg daily Lorazepam March 2013-April 2013

After approximately 21 days, stopped COLD TURKEY

Doctor put me on 20 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 4/25/13

I decided to jump down to 10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 5/08/13

Will stay here for a few months, then taper to ZERO!!

 

 

I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience and research and is only my perspective

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Hi Tim, welcome back.  You were one of the first people to welcome me when I joined here, and then you disappeared, I'm happy to hear that you are ready to begin your taper.  Try not to worry, by tapering slowly this time, and with the help and support here, I'm sure it will be much easier this time.

 

Here are our Prozac tapering tips:

http://survivinganti...zac-fluoxetine/

 

And here is the link to your original introduction/update thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4226-saltedginkgonuts-benzo-and-ssri-withdrawal/

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Hello Friend:

I finally feel ready. Thanks for your support!

Blessings, -Tim

10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac Jan. 2009-Nov. 2012

Went COLD TURKEY Nov. 2012-March 2013

.05-1 mg daily Lorazepam March 2013-April 2013

After approximately 21 days, stopped COLD TURKEY

Doctor put me on 20 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 4/25/13

I decided to jump down to 10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 5/08/13

Will stay here for a few months, then taper to ZERO!!

 

 

I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience and research and is only my perspective

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Dear Rhi and Aberdeen,

 

Thanks for your input! Really appreciated!

 

Sunflower

1998-2010. Zoloft 100 mgs.

3/2010. Switched to generic Z and began not to feel well.

7/2010. Estrogen patch added which caused severe depression.

8/2010 to 10/2010. Zoloft increased from 100 mgs to 200 mgs., Klonopin .25 mgs in am; .50 mgs pm; Remeron

.25 mgs. added by new doc

1/2011. Began tapering K; last dose of K 7/2011.

11/2011 Began Remeron taper; last dose of R 1/2012 (Tapered K & R by dry cutting)

1/2013 Began tapering Z from 200 mgs to 100 mgs by dry cutting

3/2013. Experiencing wd sx...took break

9/2013. Down to 150 mgs.

2/2014 - Present. 100 mgs Z

1-21-15. Began dry cutting 100 mgs.

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Hi Tim, so you have been on 20 mg Prozac since April 2013? How have you been and any other changes?

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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I've actually been on 10 mg for many months now. I toughed it out to get there and I'd like to taper to zero. I might do 7.5 for a month or two, then titrate down 2.5 more for a couple of months, etc. until I can reach zero. My holistic doctor is guiding me.

10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac Jan. 2009-Nov. 2012

Went COLD TURKEY Nov. 2012-March 2013

.05-1 mg daily Lorazepam March 2013-April 2013

After approximately 21 days, stopped COLD TURKEY

Doctor put me on 20 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 4/25/13

I decided to jump down to 10 mg daily Fluoxetine/Prozac as of 5/08/13

Will stay here for a few months, then taper to ZERO!!

 

 

I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience and research and is only my perspective

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SGN, please consider the taper we recommend, 10% of your current dose at a time.

 

It can actually be relatively painless. It doesn't have to be hell.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I've actually been on 10 mg for many months now. I toughed it out to get there and I'd like to taper to zero. I might do 7.5 for a month or two, then titrate down 2.5 more for a couple of months, etc. until I can reach zero. My holistic doctor is guiding me.

 

Agree with Rhi.. The '10% rule' worked for me, and as long as I keep to... 'reduce by 10% of the previous dose, hold for a month'.. my quality of life is not negatively impacted.  I don't think holistic docs understand tapering any more than regular MDs. I just went to a seminar given by a naturopath.. she thinks a healthy life style is key to being able to reduce rapidly, or even CT.. I'd hate to see how many unfortunate souls she has left in her wake. The 10% route has been a life saver for me.  Mercifully, I came to a site similar to SurvivingADs before I'd sensitized my CNS, so in that regard I'm fortunate. Every day now I'm thankful to have learned about the slow but sure route..

 

Although it may seem counter intuitive, we need to take even more care reducing from lower doses.  It's

is usually easier to taper from higher doses and often folks can move along a little faster, but the lower you go, the more the need for caution.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi,

 

I posted here back in August when I was in the middle of a horrible withdrawal from CT of Prozac. Due to the advice of those on here I decided to reinstate despite being so adamant I would never again when i at first was taken off.

I decided it made sense to go back on and then attempt a proper withdrawal. I reinstated in August and around October I was more or less stabilizing with some lingering anxiety and lack of appetite sticking around til about November. I still get pins and needles which is weird but perhaps common? I decided to see a Naturopath who seems to have some experience with helping people taper and made a plan for me to taper...however my pdoc refused to give me the prescription for the liquid as he felt it was far too soon to even consider it. (This is the doctor who thought cold turkey would be no problem) His basis for refusal is that when someone experiences a depression (him calling it that still irks me) their likelihood of experiencing once in the year after is exponentially high and so that me not waiting a year would be foolish. Now I am beyond frightened to mess with anything that could lead me to where I was and part of me thinks maybe my body does more time after going through some an upheaval not even 6 months ago...but at the same time I am eager to start the process of TRYING to rid my body of this poison.

I guess I am just asking for the opinion of the people who HAVE dealt with this...because as we all know...the medical community seems to know very little!!

 

Thanks!!

Put on Prozac 40 mg around the age of 11 (1996) (Paxil started for a short time prior to Prozac)

Clomipramine was used for a few years until I stopped taking it around age 16 or so...no w/d that i recall

Prozac consistently until 5 years ago when I tapered off (i did no research and just took one pill every other day for about a month) crashed hard two months later.

Reinstated to 40 mg.

May 2014 Pdoc suggested coming off CT and assured me it was fine due to half life...(I should have known better!!)

End of June 2014: Physical symptoms started..dizziness, pins and needles...followed by emotional symptoms in July and hitting the lowest point in August 2015...reinstated to 10 mg, then up to 30 mg, stabilized around October-November 2014.

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Hey, Itee.  Tapering's been on my mind too lately.  The question of when to begin a taper is personal and difficult, especially after having had a frightening withdrawal experience.  I've waited two years since withdrawal started, and I have yet to begin or plan my taper.  Like you, I worry about ending up back in the hell that was earlier withdrawal.  And I worry also about the effects of continuing to stay on the drug.  It's a tough situation we find ourselves in.  

 

Can I ask what your Naturopath's tapering plan is?  I would consider changing your pdoc if I were you, they sound dismissive and unhelpful.  

 

I'm sure someone who's taken the taper plunge will come around and share their experiences, just thought I'd try to commiserate a little.  

 

P.S. Here is another thread on the same topic:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4244-after-reinstating-how-long-before-beginning-taper/
 

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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I think going back on and tapering slowly was a good idea. My experience with doctors is that they are woefully uninformed and probably what they profess to know

about prozac (and other drugs) comes largely from the pharma companies. The big drug companies and doctors are the people that got us into this bad situation. I agree with you: it's crucialto get your information from people who have personal experience of getting off these drugs. The administrators are especially knowledgeable and helpful. We are all in this together. It's hard but we can do it.

On 20 mg of Prozac for about ten years. Sept 2012 started reducing 10% a drop using gram scale, with average of one month holds.

When I'd reached the half way mark, taking 10 mg  powder out of the 20 mg capsules, I switched over to 10 mg capsules and cutting

down from those. Withdrawals got harder the lower I dropped.  May 2013 changed to 5% drops, holding until all withdrawal symptoms gone.

January 2015 changed to liquid prozac (concentration of 20MG per 5 mL) using a 1mL oral syringe.

Current dose of fluoxetine solution equivalent 3.4 mg. Any effort to drop below this has been disastrous so for the time being I'm staying at this level.
Adding 200 mg Tryptophan and 200 GABA a day has helped with anxiety.
Also take 1,300mg Omega- 3,  875mg  Magnesium, 1800mg Curcumin, 1000mg Vit C, 5000 Vit D.
 

 

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Thanks for your responses!

 

Narcissus: It is SUCH  a frustrating situation..and to be honest its on my mind every single day now. Not only was the experience of w/d so unbelievably hellish (as everyone here knows) but now I feel trapped. :(

The naturopath has suggested a bunch of supplements which I started taking anways..magnesium/taurine, vitamin c, b complex and omega 3's. His tapering schedule I think (once i decide to be brave and try it) is a bit fast for my liking now...he suggests a 4 mg dose decrease (about every 5-6 weeks) in the span of 29 weeks. 

When my pdoc saw that he dismissed it and said he would do it much longer...(i think i would too but i find it a bit comical that after cold turkey taking me off he now thinks i should go SUPER slow..hindsight sure is 20/20!!

I haven't seen him in 2 months as to be honest I A) Don't trust him anymore and B) I associate him now with the hell I was in.

To be honest, I am a bit sick of pdocs in general...I am in the situation I am in because of lazy pdocs who saw a kid dealing with sh*tty life circumstances and instead of talking gave her a pill. Since then every pdoc I have seen tries to put me on different meds..."try this one! its great!"....makes me sick.

 

 

Indigo: You're spot on that Dr's are incredibly uniformed. I am pretty sure my general physician thinks the theory of a serotonin imbalance causing depression/anxiety is still valid. I am almost positive when i ask her for a prescription for liquid prozac she is going to try and tell me why I should stay on it for life and why its OK. Its almost like most doctors assume patients will just listen to anything they are told and not research things on their own. I don't know about you but I find the fact that after reinstatement/stabilization people usually assume "see, you needed the pill..u feel better now don't u?" That pisses me off so much and I always want to say to those people "So would the heroin addict need the heroin too if they felt "better" when they were given it again?"  But..ofcourse nobody sees it that way. :angry:

Put on Prozac 40 mg around the age of 11 (1996) (Paxil started for a short time prior to Prozac)

Clomipramine was used for a few years until I stopped taking it around age 16 or so...no w/d that i recall

Prozac consistently until 5 years ago when I tapered off (i did no research and just took one pill every other day for about a month) crashed hard two months later.

Reinstated to 40 mg.

May 2014 Pdoc suggested coming off CT and assured me it was fine due to half life...(I should have known better!!)

End of June 2014: Physical symptoms started..dizziness, pins and needles...followed by emotional symptoms in July and hitting the lowest point in August 2015...reinstated to 10 mg, then up to 30 mg, stabilized around October-November 2014.

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Itee, I too reinstated last fall and am now stable at 30mg of prozac. Unfortunately I'm beginning to encounter some of the side effects that had been alleviated at lower doses. For that reason the idea of beginning to taper has been dancing in my head as well. Theres a part of me that's pretty scared to start, but another part that's angry and wants to show I can do it and live without it! Granted, it'll be a few years before I'm free of it since I'm planing an ultra-slow taper this go round.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts)

Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal 

Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue 

Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast)

April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin 

Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop)

Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms 

Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but…

Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs

Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine  then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months

Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding.

 

My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

 

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 the fact that after reinstatement/stabilization people usually assume "see, you needed the pill..u feel better now don't u?" That pisses me off so much and I always want to say to those people "So would the heroin addict need the heroin too if they felt "better" when they were given it again?"  But..ofcourse nobody sees it that way. :angry:

 

So true. I tried to get off prozac repeatedly by following my doctors advice to take one every other day, then every three days etc. Of course  wheniver I tried that, it played havoc with my brain, and I had to go back to original dose. Eventually went to see a psychiatrist for help getting off prozac. He saw no reason to quit if it was working for me.Why not stay on it. It was only after I found this forum and the Icarus Project online that I found any real information and support.

On 20 mg of Prozac for about ten years. Sept 2012 started reducing 10% a drop using gram scale, with average of one month holds.

When I'd reached the half way mark, taking 10 mg  powder out of the 20 mg capsules, I switched over to 10 mg capsules and cutting

down from those. Withdrawals got harder the lower I dropped.  May 2013 changed to 5% drops, holding until all withdrawal symptoms gone.

January 2015 changed to liquid prozac (concentration of 20MG per 5 mL) using a 1mL oral syringe.

Current dose of fluoxetine solution equivalent 3.4 mg. Any effort to drop below this has been disastrous so for the time being I'm staying at this level.
Adding 200 mg Tryptophan and 200 GABA a day has helped with anxiety.
Also take 1,300mg Omega- 3,  875mg  Magnesium, 1800mg Curcumin, 1000mg Vit C, 5000 Vit D.
 

 

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Itee, I too reinstated last fall and am now stable at 30mg of prozac. Unfortunately I'm beginning to encounter some of the side effects that had been alleviated at lower doses. For that reason the idea of beginning to taper has been dancing in my head as well. Theres a part of me that's pretty scared to start, but another part that's angry and wants to show I can do it and live without it! Granted, it'll be a few years before I'm free of it since I'm planing an ultra-slow taper this go round.

 Yep same boat... the fear but yet the anger and wanting to do it is a pull i feel daily. What side effects have you gotten since reinstating?

Put on Prozac 40 mg around the age of 11 (1996) (Paxil started for a short time prior to Prozac)

Clomipramine was used for a few years until I stopped taking it around age 16 or so...no w/d that i recall

Prozac consistently until 5 years ago when I tapered off (i did no research and just took one pill every other day for about a month) crashed hard two months later.

Reinstated to 40 mg.

May 2014 Pdoc suggested coming off CT and assured me it was fine due to half life...(I should have known better!!)

End of June 2014: Physical symptoms started..dizziness, pins and needles...followed by emotional symptoms in July and hitting the lowest point in August 2015...reinstated to 10 mg, then up to 30 mg, stabilized around October-November 2014.

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 the fact that after reinstatement/stabilization people usually assume "see, you needed the pill..u feel better now don't u?" That pisses me off so much and I always want to say to those people "So would the heroin addict need the heroin too if they felt "better" when they were given it again?"  But..ofcourse nobody sees it that way. :angry:

 

So true. I tried to get off prozac repeatedly by following my doctors advice to take one every other day, then every three days etc. Of course  wheniver I tried that, it played havoc with my brain, and I had to go back to original dose. Eventually went to see a psychiatrist for help getting off prozac. He saw no reason to quit if it was working for me.Why not stay on it. It was only after I found this forum and the Icarus Project online that I found any real information and support.

 

Yes...i love that skewed logic most people seem to have...with that logic I have NO idea why narcotics like cocaine and heroin are looked down upon.

Put on Prozac 40 mg around the age of 11 (1996) (Paxil started for a short time prior to Prozac)

Clomipramine was used for a few years until I stopped taking it around age 16 or so...no w/d that i recall

Prozac consistently until 5 years ago when I tapered off (i did no research and just took one pill every other day for about a month) crashed hard two months later.

Reinstated to 40 mg.

May 2014 Pdoc suggested coming off CT and assured me it was fine due to half life...(I should have known better!!)

End of June 2014: Physical symptoms started..dizziness, pins and needles...followed by emotional symptoms in July and hitting the lowest point in August 2015...reinstated to 10 mg, then up to 30 mg, stabilized around October-November 2014.

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I'm going to update my thread this weekend. It will include my description of the side effects emerging. Thankfully the are relatively mild and tolerable as compared to how they were on higher doses.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts)

Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal 

Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue 

Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast)

April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin 

Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop)

Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms 

Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but…

Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs

Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine  then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months

Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding.

 

My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

 

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hello! I just thought I might be able to offer some insight. I had a terrible poop out while on Effexor, I didnt realize thats what it was 9and of course my Dr said I needed more effexor and kept doping me up). Updosing made things better for a few weeks and then I crashed harder, still being ignorant and trusting my Dr, i updosed once more and within a week was having suicidal thoughts and racing terrifying unreality and anxiety. From there I did a 3 month taper off nearly 300mg Effexor, and started 20mg of Cipralex, suffered immensely for 2 months then tried Celexa, suffered for 2 months then tried Paxil...still hanging by a thread I managed to find some online support and learned what was happening. So at that point I waited. After about 3-4 months in this waiting game, i noticed I was starting to feel better. Not 100%, but much better. I then began my taper. I tapered by 10% of my dose every 4-8 weeks. I dont think I was fully stable when I started my taper, because over the last 3 years of this taper, i have experienced typical windows and waves, as anyone else who had cold turleyed or rapidly tapered and remained off. i was of the mindset that i may never "fully stabilize" as clearly my CNS had been shaken by the previous years experience, and until I was off comepletely I would continue to have at least *some* symptoms. So here i am....now at 1.5 mg of Paxil, from 20mg and it has taken 3 years. My waves are very mild and short now. In fact my biggest complaint is anhedonia, and terrible PMS. Not bad considering where I came from (deaths door) 3-4 years ago. Unless you feel horrid, I think at some point its best to just get on with your taper, and move forward with it by listening to your body. Its totally do-able! Good luck.

2 Timothy 1-7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Effexor 75mg to 262.5mg 2005-2010 for post partum depression

Started having poop out mid 2010, also switched generic brands, then crashed in Dec 2010 (anxiety/ "terror", intense DR, anhedonia, suicidal ideation, chills, insomnia, horrible intrusive thoughts, disorientation, ect)
Rapid "tapered" from 262.5mg Effexor in 3 months

Tried Celexa,Cipralex, then Paxil to deal with wd(this switching made things worse and added akathesia)

Found online support and started tapering Paxil 7 months after quitting Effexor (at this point was having small windows).

Paxil taper: dropped 10% every 4-8 weeks

Year 1 October 2011 to Nov 2012 20mg to 10mg

Year 2 March 2013 to Feb 2014 10mg to 4mg

Year 3 April 2014 to May 2015 4mg to 1.1mg

Year 4 June 2015 1.1mg , dropping by 10% until .5mg, after then dropped by 0.1mg every 5 weeks until 0.1mg.

Finished! Official last dose of 0.1mg on June 15/16

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Bump.  Stability.  

 

My big lesson for today is that a hold is harder work than a taper.

 

We get impatient and want to take it down and down, or a pdoc pressures us into discontinuing since we're not at "therapeutic levels" anyway.

 

But to hold.  And hold.  And hold.  and wait until you're not suffering before you do a cut - and plan that cut weeks in advance.  And talk it over here, in SA, and with your support team if you have it.  If you hear enough people say, "I think you're doing really well," then a plan your next taper. 

 

Most of you are young, a year or two added to your taper is nothing - especially since you start to feel immeasurably better once you get down to 50% of "therapeutic dose."  Your head starts to clear, you start to take interest in things, you may care more about people, or even feel creative again.  And that's the payoff for the head zaps, blinding flashes, gut trouble, sinus difficulty, restlessness - that you had to go through to get there.

 

Holding is the key, for me.  It makes me feel like I am in control of the process.  If my life is disrupted, then it's time to hold.  If I'm having health issues or symptoms, then it's time to hold.  Holds are my friend, and I can feel the healing taking place during them.

 

But there is a possibility of permanent damage.  And maybe holding forever just increases the side effects you are suffering.  It's really difficult, in withdrawal, to separate drug side effects from w/d.  In that case, trying a taper is probably warranted, if the hold doesn't seem to be improving things.  You can always reinstate if it goes amiss.  And by tapers and reinstate, I'm talking the smallest possible amount.  5% maybe.  What I think of as a "test taper" to see if it's okay.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Bump.  Stability.  

 

My big lesson for today is that a hold is harder work than a taper.

 

We get impatient and want to take it down and down, or a pdoc pressures us into discontinuing since we're not at "therapeutic levels" anyway.

 

But to hold.  And hold.  And hold.  and wait until you're not suffering before you do a cut - and plan that cut weeks in advance.  And talk it over here, in SA, and with your support team if you have it.  If you hear enough people say, "I think you're doing really well," then a plan your next taper. 

 

Most of you are young, a year or two added to your taper is nothing - especially since you start to feel immeasurably better once you get down to 50% of "therapeutic dose."  Your head starts to clear, you start to take interest in things, you may care more about people, or even feel creative again.  And that's the payoff for the head zaps, blinding flashes, gut trouble, sinus difficulty, restlessness - that you had to go through to get there.

 

Holding is the key, for me.  It makes me feel like I am in control of the process.  If my life is disrupted, then it's time to hold.  If I'm having health issues or symptoms, then it's time to hold.  Holds are my friend, and I can feel the healing taking place during them.

 

But there is a possibility of permanent damage.  And maybe holding forever just increases the side effects you are suffering.  It's really difficult, in withdrawal, to separate drug side effects from w/d.  In that case, trying a taper is probably warranted, if the hold doesn't seem to be improving things.  You can always reinstate if it goes amiss.  And by tapers and reinstate, I'm talking the smallest possible amount.  5% maybe.  What I think of as a "test taper" to see if it's okay.

I agree, it is difficult to separate drug side effects from WD. Moreover, I am finding it difficult to separate this from my personality traits...as far as I remember I always suffered...Also, it is difficult to judge when there are ongoing life related problems...

I have been oversensitive all my life...

The only new symptom for me at present is paresthesia...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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Thank you for the wise words, JanCarol, and for bumping a helpful thread.

 

After two years now of staying at  75 mgs of Effexor I feel like I'm finally approaching true stability, and boy it feels good.  This leads me to believe that I was experiencing mostly withdrawal symptoms and not side effects from the Effexor.  This makes sense, as I never really experienced any serious difficulties until I tried to come off of the Effexor.  I'm not discounting that withdrawal can change the way we react to the drug, or saying that we don't we have to look for adverse reactions to it.  But in my case, and I'm sure in many of your cases, the profound stress of trying to kick the drug too quickly seems to be the culprit for most if not all of my withdrawal symptoms.  

 

I hope people can give themselves enough time to heal before tapering.  You may get that panicked feeling that you need to get the drug out of your system, but this feeling can be very misleading I think.  It makes it seem like the nature of the problem is the presence of the drug in the body, when I think it's really our body's dependence on the drug, and when we've built this dependence up for a long period of time it needs to be gradually reversed.  

 

Sending love and patience everyone's way.

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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I had a lot of things that were physical, chills, shaking hands and knees, dizzy swooshy feelings, akathesia, diarhea, and it resolved. What happened was, it took 4 months for that to resolve while i waited on the 20mg Paxil...and when it resolved i began my taper...but a few months later it came back again, but milder. It would continue to do this for the next 18 months, milder each time until it never came back at all. Then i settled into more of an anhedonic/irritated stage that was steady. I still get waves...but they are very slight, and mainly include a bit of elevated anxiety/depression (mild) and some DR...but its usually after I taper, and only lasts a few days. But that physical stuff never came back, its been gone for at least 2 years now!

2 Timothy 1-7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Effexor 75mg to 262.5mg 2005-2010 for post partum depression

Started having poop out mid 2010, also switched generic brands, then crashed in Dec 2010 (anxiety/ "terror", intense DR, anhedonia, suicidal ideation, chills, insomnia, horrible intrusive thoughts, disorientation, ect)
Rapid "tapered" from 262.5mg Effexor in 3 months

Tried Celexa,Cipralex, then Paxil to deal with wd(this switching made things worse and added akathesia)

Found online support and started tapering Paxil 7 months after quitting Effexor (at this point was having small windows).

Paxil taper: dropped 10% every 4-8 weeks

Year 1 October 2011 to Nov 2012 20mg to 10mg

Year 2 March 2013 to Feb 2014 10mg to 4mg

Year 3 April 2014 to May 2015 4mg to 1.1mg

Year 4 June 2015 1.1mg , dropping by 10% until .5mg, after then dropped by 0.1mg every 5 weeks until 0.1mg.

Finished! Official last dose of 0.1mg on June 15/16

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How to judge if I am stable or not?

Depressed, low mood is something normal for me...

Wanting to die, suicidal, it is normal for me...

Lonely, it is normal...

Oversensitive, especially to noises, it is normal...

Fight, flight, it is normal...

Pains, aches, diarrhea, seems also normal...

 

Paresthesia is gone...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

 

 

I hope people can give themselves enough time to heal before tapering.  You may get that panicked feeling that you need to get the drug out of your system, but this feeling can be very misleading I think.  It makes it seem like the nature of the problem is the presence of the drug in the body, when I think it's really our body's dependence on the drug, and when we've built this dependence up for a long period of time it needs to be gradually reversed.  

 

Sending love and patience everyone's way.

 

Yep, that's the conclusion I've had to come to, after seeing so many peoples' journeys over the years. I mean yes, there are definitely people having bad reactions to the meds, but I actually think that's probably only about a third of the people who think they are having bad reactions to the meds, and most of the time they're having compounded withdrawal due to not allowing their brains time to achieve homeostasis.

 

Holds really are just as important as reductions. 

 

There's a discussion of this in the Slowness of Slow Tapers thread. I won't attempt to reiterate it here but there's some good stuff there, some links to a couple of good articles, if anyone would like more insight into why we need to give our brains lots and lots and lots of time to balance and heal, as part of the "getting off drugs" process.

 

And remember my "trellis" analogy: Our brains on these drugs are like plants trained on a trellis. The trellis is the chemistry induced by the drug. The plant is the brain. If you want the plant to regain its natural shape and health, you need to remove the trellis, but if you yank that trellis out too fast, the yanking is going to cause a lot of damage, because the plant has integrated the trellis into its shape and structure. 

 

We see a lot of people here in the aftermath of having torn the trellis away too fast, or suffering from pulling it out chunk by chunk faster than the plant can reshape itself and grow its own support, so it is struggling and collapsing.

 

You need to remove the drug a wee bit at a time and then allow the brain to heal, then remove a bit more and allow more healing, etc.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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How to judge if I am stable or not?

Depressed, low mood is something normal for me...

Wanting to die, suicidal, it is normal for me...

Lonely, it is normal...

Oversensitive, especially to noises, it is normal...

Fight, flight, it is normal...

Pains, aches, diarrhea, seems also normal...

 

Paresthesia is gone...

 

Given your history as you describe in your sig line, I am not surprised that this is your normal. 

 

Normal and stable are not the same thing. It can be normal to be stable, but it can also be normal to be very sick and messed up. For many, many years when I was changing meds, always cutting back on my doses or skipping doses because I hated the side effects, I was suicidal, miserable, dysfunctional. I was also pretty miserable even when I was taking the drugs as prescribed, because that's what happens to a lot of people on these drugs. The long term outcomes are not good.

 

So during that time, feeling sick and miserable, craving death, and not being able to work or function was normal for me. But I was not stable.

 

All the symptoms you describe above are typical for withdrawal, and from your sig line it sounds like you've been making some aggressive cuts, so I'm not surprised to hear it. I'm sorry for your suffering.

 

It's a tricky thing, to balance between the bad effects of tapering too fast, and the bad effects of the drugs themselves. There's no easy answer. Overall, I would say, people get the best results by erring on the side of going a bit too slow, mostly because we all have such a strong urge to go too fast.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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How to judge if I am stable or not?

Depressed, low mood is something normal for me...

Wanting to die, suicidal, it is normal for me...

Lonely, it is normal...

Oversensitive, especially to noises, it is normal...

Fight, flight, it is normal...

Pains, aches, diarrhea, seems also normal...

Paresthesia is gone...

 

 

Given your history as you describe in your sig line, I am not surprised that this is your normal. 

 

Normal and stable are not the same thing. It can be normal to be stable, but it can also be normal to be very sick and messed up. For many, many years when I was changing meds, always cutting back on my doses or skipping doses because I hated the side effects, I was suicidal, miserable, dysfunctional. I was also pretty miserable even when I was taking the drugs as prescribed, because that's what happens to a lot of people on these drugs. The long term outcomes are not good.

 

So during that time, feeling sick and miserable, craving death, and not being able to work or function was normal for me. But I was not stable.

 

All the symptoms you describe above are typical for withdrawal, and from your sig line it sounds like you've been making some aggressive cuts, so I'm not surprised to hear it. I'm sorry for your suffering.

 

It's a tricky thing, to balance between the bad effects of tapering too fast, and the bad effects of the drugs themselves. There's no easy answer. Overall, I would say, people get the best results by erring on the side of going a bit too slow, mostly because we all have such a strong urge to go too fast.

Yes, I thought about my time-line with regards to meds and that I must have been in some withdrawal before, but that time nobody spoke about withdrawals...

 

Yes, I have a strong urge to go faster, but also listen to wise suggestions...

I want to feel stable, whatever it means for me...

 

Many symptoms I had before being put on meds. I started feelind depressed, suicidal when I was around 14 years old...

What I presented with were mostly symptoms of complex trauma...that time I started drinking alcohol...

No wonder, that I dont know what stable means...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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for me, stabilizing means that regardless of how rotten i may feel, I am still able to sustain my daily survival activities as well as my daily regimen of spiritual exercises (exercise, meditations, meetings, etc.). If I can not sustain my daily activities at all for more than 2 to 3 days, then the reduction is too severe and it would be good to reinstate to the former dose or at least halfway back up.

 

I like the analogy of a broken or sprained limb. If I can move it around at all, it may hurt, but that's good, but I should go slow and not try to go out and run a marathon. on the other hand, it moving it doubles me up in spasms, I should probably leave it in the cast for awhile longer. 

 

tapering off of psych meds is the most excruciatingly difficult thing I have ever done, and that's saying a lot in my case. PATIENCE IS ESSENTIAL.

Ruby

2002: "Situational depression" 2002-2010:Prozac.Birth Control.2011 Short trials: Paxil, Celexa, Lexipro, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Ativan- Gee, Doc never mentioned protracted AD wd syndrome. Imagine that. 2011-2015. Lamictal. Seroquel. Remiron. 2012: "Complex post traumatic stress disorder." Fast taper of Remiron jumped off June 2013. Slow tapers ever since of Seroquel & Lamictal.  crippling muscle spasms. crying fits. panic attacks. akathisia. nerve twitches. the jitters. the heebie jeebies. de-personal/realization. numbness. tingling. fatigue. lethargy. nightmares.insomnia. weird images. eye pain.vertigo. dizziness. brain zaps. and on and on and on. withdrawal? side effects? which drug? impossible to know. Stopped Seroquel October 2015.  Stopped Lamictal  March 2016. Had more severe muscle/joint spasms that paralyzed me for 3 days at a time, last episode was March 2017.Going back to work as of February 2018 after 14 years off full-time work due to the crippling effects of psych meds. Check out Robert Whittaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic" for  his breakdown of the rates of mental disability  since the introduction of Prozac into the human population. Best solutions for me: Social support via AA meetings. Acupuncture. Meditation. Dance. Nature. Yoga. Social support online with psych med survivor community. Nutrition. Exercise. More outdoor time. Go sit in the sunshine for 5 minutes. Touch a tree. Breathe deeply.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

For me it usually takes four to six weeks, but occasionally it may take longer, sometimes months.  Since my last failed taper attempt, I am very careful to listen to my body and do not cut until I feel really stable, even if it takes many months.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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  • 1 month later...

Hello! Quick question. I just started my first taper (did 10% cut from current dose). I know to hold for at least a month, but I wondered how long (an average, obviously) do the taper symptoms tend to last after each cut? I'm only experiencing very mild symptoms, mostly fatigue, but wanted some feedback! Thanks!

*2000: Started Paxil CR 20 mcg at age 13

*Fall 2009: Came off Paxil CR 20 mcg cold-turkey

*Summer 2012: Reinstated Paxil CR 20 mcg

*April 2015: Started taper from 20mcg

*August 2015: Currently on 16mcg

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Hi Jonesy, everyone is different so there is no right answer. I always say to wait till symptoms have subsided then wait 2 or 3 weeks more before another cut, however long it takes.  They shouldn't last long if they are mild, maybe  a week or so, but if they persist then it may be best to think about smaller cuts which can be more often so the time it takes to taper is much the same but less jarring for the nervous system.  If I could go back I would have done a micro taper of effexor, but then again  if I could go back I wouldn't touch the poisonous drugs in the first place!  

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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