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☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use


Petunia

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I'm going to ramble in my own thread for a while, even though I'd rather avoid it, but I'm not up to doing anything else at the moment and writing, for me, is a reasonable distraction, it helps me get out of my very uncomfortable body and into my head. I prefer being in my head, even though its not working very well, it feels safer up here.

 

Thank you for your kind words Fresh. Even though I don't manage to get around to posting on your thread, I'm watching your taper and have my fingers crossed for you that none of those awful symptoms come back now that you are tapering super slow.

 

Thank you for sharing your story about planting daffodils Bubble, they used to be my favorite flower and I remember planting bulbs once. I've got bitter/sweet memories connected with daffodils and being reminded of them made me realize I've let go a little bit more of one particular bad episode. I love your quote - "Your garden has been planted and is waiting for this storm to pass." So true, literally and metaphorically. 

 

Hugs to you Petunia. I admire you so much for your strength, courage and grace under 'fire'
 

 

Think I know what you're referring to here D. :) Thank you.

 

But you know what? That one particular nasty, insulting comment seemed so OTT that my first reaction was to smile, I found it amusing. Which in hindsight, might come across as a bit callous of me, because he (if we are talking about the same person) is/was in a lot of emotional pain to be acting that way, whether he realizes it or not.

 

I've had a secondary reaction to that exchange and its brought up some of my own past baggage along with difficult emotions. I've been able to connect it with two unresolved relationships from my past and work through some traumatic events.

 

It was unusual that I found myself having a fairly strong emotional reaction to something a complete stranger wrote, over the internet, that's not like me. I knew it wasn't about me, not really, but something was pushing my buttons. Once I had got some validation that I hadn't actually done anything 'wrong', that's when the uncomfortable stuff started to come up.

 

Turns out I still have issues from my past about being misunderstood and misjudged by various important people who I believed cared about and trusted me. I remembered the feeling of not being seen for who I really am, but having 'bad' motivations projected onto me, which just weren't true. I remember being harshly punished for things which weren't true, and not being listened to, or believed when I tried to explain. I guess I've carried that pain with me, to have it triggered again now. Its still painful to know that I wasn't understood, believed or trusted by people I cared about, but I can see now that it was never about me, but about their inability to see clearly what was in front of them due to their own issues.

 

Its surprising where opportunities for insight and healing come from.

 

Yes, thank you for writing your hard stuff because otherwise when us following along way behind you get there, we might think we are the only ones for whom it went badly...

 

I need to remember encouraging comments like this, when I'm reluctant to post my bad stuff. I know how its helped me to read about others who have gone through rough times, have written about it, but then recovered. So thank you Karen.

 

 

To help your healing, focus as best you can on the positive feelings you had during that window. Recall the sights, the sounds, the smells, the tastes. If you continue to relive it you will strengthen those new neuronal pathways.

Even though it hurts right now you are wise to revel in the fact that you are healing.

 

Thanks Andy, this is good advice. At times, through this wave I've tried to do this, more out of desperation than a desire to solidify healing. Its been me, hanging on for dear life to rapidly dissolving memories of what I'm unfortunately starting to feel was my imagination. Did I really feel so good? Was that even possible? 

 

But I have some visible evidence of what I achieved (was that really me who did that?)... and I fight with the dissonance between the evidence and my current state of mind, trying to hold onto my sanity, saying over and over in my mind 'windows and waves, windows and waves, this is how recovery happens'.

 

and...

 

Wanted to see if you felt any better today.

Just checking in.
 

 

Thanks for asking Andy, if I recall, I wasn't feeling any better, probably worse actually. Its been getting progressively worse, but may be leveling out again now, but more about that later.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you're in a wave but I'm so happy to hear about that window and to read that in recent months you've been getting more better times and your healing is accelerating. It's a very good sign. I hope you have another window very soon xx

 

Thanks for visiting my thread WT, especially since you're not doing so well again now, after having a small windowish thing yourself. You know what's interesting? Your window started the same day mine did and your progression from window, back to baseline then into a bad wave has followed a similar pattern, not sure if the dates all match up, but I was very surprised to see the similarity.

 

I hope we both have another window very soon.

 

So, time for a little update I suppose....no! I don't want to, its been horrible, one of the worst symptoms came back, the dreadful dread, and it was hanging around all day, I really don't want to write about it. But its almost midday here now and its started to go, which was better than yesterday, so maybe this wave is on its way out.

 

I also need to write something about melatonin, because when I found out we are allowed to have small amounts of the real stuff shipped here to Australia, I ordered some, it arrived last Friday, one week ago. I tried it two nights in a row, then stopped. Then I took a very tiny bit again last night.

 

I was already well into the wave when it arrived, so it probably wasn't good timing to be trying something new, but I was desperate to find out if it would settle my sleep back down again. I'd started waking frequently through the night again and was back to the 4am terror wake-up calls.

 

I'd ordered some 1mg instant release and 1mg slow release. I started with .5mg instant release, it knocked me out fairly fast, but I was wide awake again about 90 minutes later, so I took the other half. I went back to sleep and slept through until about 4:30 when my cortisol morning began it daily torture routine. But I was having an unpleasant melatonin hangover on top of the cortisol, even though I'd slept better. It was a strange combination of being hyped up physically, but slowed down mentally. I couldn't move from my bed all day, the inner conflict was awful.

 

I had definitely slept better, and I had a sense that the improved sleep quality was good for me, so the next night I tried taking 1mg of slow release. I was wide awake two hours later, so I took another .5mg instant release and then slept through the whole night. But still woke up too early with the terrors combined with being paralyzed. By Sunday afternoon I was feeling about as bad as I ever have. So I decided not to take it again that night.

 

This whole week has been a typical wavy week with a return to some of the worst symptoms, lasting through most of the day and not really going away completely at night. The intensity of them hasn't been as bad as when I was at my worst, but there's no doubt they are symptoms which had gone, now returning...

 

the list

 

frequent waking with adrenaline rushes and sweating

disturbing dreams

waking earlier and earlier and not being able to go back to sleep (3.45 was the earliest, 4am yesterday and 5am this morning, so I think its getting better again)

mild akathisia

temperature dysregulation

the dread... I really hate this one, its like spending the day sitting in an execution chamber, alone, on the morning of your own execution by a very unpleasant method.

gum pain and swelling

sensitivity to light and sound

and of course agoraphobia because of not wanting to go out while experiencing all that

 

But I did go out to the grocery store a couple of times, very quickly and it wasn't as bad as it used to be, only very mild DP/DR, but the dread followed me and made sure I didn't hang around too long, those shelves full of products were giving off very ominous vibes and it seemed best to just grab what I needed and get back home to safety.

 

I know it had nothing to do with the shelves, but once the fight/flight instinct grabs a hold of a body/mind, its almost impossible to reason with it, the reasoning part of the brain seems to be shut off, or at least working on very low power.

 

I've got to go over to my parent's house again one day soon and sort through the last of the boxes. For anyone who has been reading my thread from the beginning, you will know what that's all about. The timing of this has 'miraculously' aligned itself with this particularly brutal wave and I can't help but wonder if 'something' up there is orchestrating all of this.

 

Last time it was my father who was looking for a project and homed in on my boxes as being something interesting to do. This time its my mum who is bored and has decided its time to 'get on with it'

 

If I didn't just have my very first real, extended window, where I got back my motivation and creativity and found some meaning again, I probably wouldn't even bother going over there. The last time we went through all this, I just let it all go, telling them to throw it out, sell it or do whatever they wanted with it.

 

But now I'm thinking I should probably rescue my craft things.

 

Most of it needs to go into a dumpster, and if I was well, that's what I would probably have done a long time ago. I would have gone through it, taken out what I wanted to keep, sold a few things that had any real value, donated some and thrown the bulk of it out.

 

But the problem is, my dad is a borderline hoarder. He refuses to throw anything out if there's the slightest possibility of getting some money for it, even if its broken and could possibly be repaired. This would be ok if he actually fixed things up and sold them on a regular basis, but it doesn't happen like that. Broken appliances from years ago line shelves and corners of their various unused rooms and spaces. I will sometimes hear stories of victory from my mum when she tells me how she managed to sneak one of these dusty relics into the garbage bin without my dad knowing.

 

There's currently a small war going on between them over boxes which contain things which are obviously garbage, like paperwork from 10 years ago and linen which got damp and stayed that way. My dad wants to go through every single thing in case there's something of value...this is my stuff, not his, but he wants to dig through all my old paperwork and moldy pillowcases!!

 

They don't need the money, its not that, its something else, some hidden, dysfunctional instinctive drive which no longer reflects reality.

 

But I've gone off on a huge tangent here, I'm supposed to be writing about withdrawal symptoms :blush: although there's a flimsy connection, if I was more functional and able to handle things normally, I would have sorted this all out a long time ago and they wouldn't have my stuff there to argue over.

 

But as I wrote, I think the wave might be easing up a bit, I'm not feeling as dreadful today as I was this time yesterday. I took a tiny dose of melatonin again last night...   .25mg of instant release. I took it about 1:30 when I woke up, then slept all the way through until 5am, which was an improvement. But best of all, I don't feel paralyzed and groggy, now the dread is starting to subside, I'm actually feeling a bit more relaxed.

 

So my conclusion about melatonin is that I shouldn't have started it while in the throes of a wave, because that was just confusing... and finding the lowest possible dose which helps, without causing negative effects is important. I think the length of time I'm sleeping is improving again because I'm coming out of the wave, but the quality of sleep is improved by the melatonin. I had a disturbing dream during the early hours, but I wasn't anywhere near as disturbed by it as I think I should have been...I think that was the melatonin.

 

So that's my update and now its time for lunch :)

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
Just did a search and it is posted on sa as well and amazingly the exact same paragraph that meant so much to me and that i highlighted is highlighted here too in  red.

 

Anyway i am sure you know about it.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3523-success-recovery-from-protracted-zoloft-withdrawal-and-pssd/?p=39880

 

Yes, this is a great paragraph NZ, I'd read it before and its definitely one which has stuck in my mind, I think it should be copied to our 'best of' section, if it already isn't. This is something which has kept me going every time I've had a set back, that's when I've remembered it.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Hugs, Petu.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I'm sorry I didn't respond soon Petunia. I read your update a few days ago. I found it hard because I wanted to hear you say that everything was good and the window was continuing. The reality of what really is happening to you was hard for me to process. My selfish :-(   Life isn't all about happy endings and rainbows with pots of gold at the end. I don't know why I even think like that. But I want you to know that I find your honesty and your writing so beautifully refreshing and real. Sometimes when I am feeling bad and don't know what to do with myself I think of you and how you have coped and I seem to be able to lift my head high and carry on. So I thank you for that. Much Love xxxx

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Petunia,

 

I know the comment you are referring to . I also got a shock when I read it. it seemed to come out of the blue for no reason.  I'm so pleased that it didn't overly upset you , even though it brought up a bit of " baggage".  I agree, that this person was in a heightened state , due to withdrawal . Anyway , I just wanted to cheer you on and say that I think you are a beautiful person and do an awesome job, particularly when you are still battling symptoms.

 

Even though , some have returned, the intensity is less , and shows healing is happening.  :)

 

Hugs,

 

Ali.

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Hi Petu

 

I just wanted to come on here to say what an amazing person you are. You really are. You write so beautifully and you're so strong. You are a masssive inspiration to me and so many others on this site.

 

It helps me a great deal to read about your waves and windows (although I wish so much you didn't have to suffer and could go into a window that lasted forever, which you will one day). It keeps me going in the waves. When I go into a wave I always think, was it because I did this? Was it because I did that? I push like crazy, try everything in my power to heal and end up getting monster waves anyway. I'm really learning that this pattern is 'normal' in this thing we all go through as we walk towards freedom.

 

Seeing you experience this pattern gives me strength and reminds me that these waves are part of the withdrawal process and don't last forever. They end and gradually start to bloom into improved baselines and better windows. I'm watching your baseline go up and your windows improve over time. I feel for you so much when you crash back into these waves.

 

You wrote somewhere that you had a really good window and the good thing was that it just happened (I can't remember the wording but it was something along those lines). That helped me more than you could ever know. It showed me that no matter how brutal the waves, things can turn around at any time. I don't know what happens in our brains or how they do this but somehow they just do! I've had brutal waves and then within them I've had days where things are suddenly different and improved and I haven't done anything at all to make that happen!

 

I wonder how you are today. If you're in a wave, I'm here thinking of you and knowing it will pass. If you're back in baseline, I hope it leads to a lovely window. If you're in a window, may it be a long and bright one. This goes for everyone on this site.

 

Thank you for being a guiding light in this process, Petu. Thank you for being a light in the darkness. I have so much respect for you.

 

I wish you continued healing xx

The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Petunia:

 

Thank you for replying in my thread and I replied back there.  I realize now you may not have seen it as 

you are so busy either writing and inspiring or caring for yourself, I imagine.  :)

 

I'm glad to read about your experience with St. John's Wort (tho sorry you didn't do well with it)...I took 1/4 pill once, ugh.

 Course, I took it before 1/4th of one dose of remeron cleared my body.  Still, ugh.

 

You asked about the melatonin I recently added at night.  I did lower the dose and think it's better for some parts of me.

Thank you.

 

Along with many others, here's wishing you continued healing, peace and returned joy, sooner than later and permanently.

EO

1989-2004 low doze Xanax nightly.

2004 w/d in hospital c/t with 3 other meds, (trazadone, phenobarbital, risperdal)

Tapered off those meds in 7 months.

2010- bad anxiety so tried Valium and klonopin, back to hospital, came home on nothing, got much better.

12-23-2013- hospital for anxiety, depression,insomnia...used low dose lamictal 12 days with mitrazapine.

Came home on 15 mg mitrazapine, down to c. 10 mg mitrazapine in c. 3weeks, 7.5 mg in 32 days..

Tapered off mitrazapine March 6, 2014.

Took .75 mg April 20 and 1.05 mg April 21st.

Ended taper March 6, 2014.

Take supplements tho not all daily: fish oil, Vit. C., Vit. D, cal/mag, little multi, mag at night,

Been taking homeopathic remedy since June, 2014 via a Homeopathic M.D. (Trained in psychiatry)1-12, 2018 put on 60 mg cymbalta; 150 lyrica for anxiety and 50 mg trazadone. Tapered of trazadone after 3 months on it and tapered off of lyrica in about 9 months. As of March, 2019, only on 60 mg cymbalta.

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I've been meaning to update, and when I just saw my thread bumped right to the top of page 1 by EO (thanks EO :) ) I figured now is as good a time as any, don't have to go find my thread.

 

Thank you also to everyone else, your comments, encouragement and hugs help a lot and remind me that there is a deeper meaning in this painful process of recovery.

 

... so, I think its safe to say that the wave is over and I'm back at baseline, and as usual, I think its slightly higher, only very slightly though.

 

No more melatonin. Taking the lower dose prevented the groggy side effect the next day, but didn't seem to offer much of a benefit either. I decided that it wasn't worth risking the possibility that it was interfering in some way with the recovery of my normal hormonal balances.

 

I'm now having much lower levels of fear/dread in the mornings which morph into anhedonia, apathy and a bad case of the blahs by about midday, followed by  2 - 3 hours of semi-exhausted, but fairly peaceful evenings, which end with me not being able to keep my eyes open much past 9pm. I usually fall asleep watching youtube videos. Then, like clockwork, I'm awake again a few minutes either side of 1:30.

 

After a visit to the bathroom, I fall back to sleep easily.  The morning cortisol is now waking me up around 5:30. Its still very unpleasant, mainly a physical sensation in my body, but not the shock and horror of earlier times. Dreams are back to being a fairly normal mix (for me) of confusing, challenging situations and interesting, pleasant experiences, none of which leave me feeling traumatized after I wake up.

 

All this week I've been getting up as soon as I'm awake and going outside to do a mini-yoga workout on my new little patch of lawn. Mostly I do child's pose and a few stretches for my spine. Five minutes at most. Apart from one day, it was still pretty cold out there at that time of the morning.  I can't say its made any significant difference, but the very first time I got down into child's pose and touched my head to the ground, I experienced a sudden feeling of relaxation, like my whole body let go. It lasted about 30 seconds, then the tension was back. I haven't had that happen since.

I'm dragging myself out of the house to do the things I have to, and wandering around quite easily, but totally miserable. Then I get angry and frustrated because no matter what, I feel awful and can't make it go away. I want the good stuff back again, its not enough that the terror has subsided, this hollow, empty meaningless existence really isn't much better.  *sigh*  No, I'm lying, its better, don't make me go back to the terror.

 

... I seem to be displaying an example of this:   “Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the 'size' of human suffering is absolutely relative".”
Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

My recent plans and goals have been put on hold again for now. I don't want to be just going through the motions of doing things for the sake of getting them done, when I originally planned them because they seemed like fun and meaningful things to do. After the window closed, for a few days, I continued working on my projects, testing out the theory that it would encourage the feel good chemicals to come back, but it didn't work...not at all. In fact I got the distinct impression that by continuing to focus on my hobbies while in such a dark frame of mind, I was possibly contaminating them, attaching bad memories to them, programming myself to avoid them in the future.

 

I've made some progress, I can see that. Now there are things I want to do, I'm just waiting until my brain catches up and is capable of providing the normal positive feedback from doing stuff I want to do. This is such a weird dilemma, to want to do things, but not be able to experience the joy and satisfaction which comes from doing them. Its still an improvement, six months ago I didn't want to do anything. I thought I should be doing things, but I hadn't yet experienced actually wanting to do them.

Now I'm waiting for another window so I can go buy some supplies to have a go at making hypertufa pots and fake rocks.

I'm getting regular waves of neuro-emotions through the day at about 50% of the intensity they were at first. In the afternoons, the occasional almost good feeling which is more of a possibility of a good feeling than the actual good feeling itself, but it reminds me that I'm getting there.

My sleep has gone back to how it was before the window.

I got through the box sorting, it wasn't as traumatic and overwhelming as the last time I had to do it.

 

baseline%20small.jpg

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Ridiculously long review of L-Theanine  (Suntheanine formula)

 

My order from iHerb arrived at 11:30am last Friday, the 20th. Unlike recent previous deliveries, this time I was filled with real hope and a high level of expectation. For some reason, I was almost certain L-Theanine was going to be my miracle cure. For the life of me, I don’t know why, and I can’t even remember why I started researching this infrequently occurring, non-essential amino acid properly.

 

Sure I’d heard of it. I knew it was ‘that stuff in green tea’ and good for us in some way. But until a couple of weeks ago I had no idea just how many people find this substance reduces their anxiety, improves sleep and reduces other effects of stress. So I ripped open the box, took out the bottle of Natural Factors Suntheanine 100mg chewables and opened it to find some very large tablets inside.

 

From all the research I’ve done, I knew that people generally got a good response from doses of Suntheanine, the purest form of L-Theanine in ranges from 100mg to 200mg. But my nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal, I didn’t want to risk a bad reaction, but at the same time, I didn’t want to take something and have no response at all because I wasn’t taking enough, then give up, thinking it didn’t work. So I cut one of those big tablets in half and put it in my mouth. It was delicious, a sweet fruity flavor, more like candy than a supplement.

 

I should probably say something about how I was feeling at the time, the current state of my withdrawal symptoms before I took it.

 

I was in my typical daytime pattern of having woken too early with adrenaline rushes, high levels of fear and dread and an inner sense of danger. There was mild shaking, body tension, and random neuro-emotions which seemed to be triggered by almost anything from hearing something negative or positive, a random thought,  to noticing a leaf laying on the ground and suddenly feeling completely overwhelmed by fear. I seem to have been living with a kind of PTSD with my anxiety being triggered randomly by anything, everything and nothing from the moment I wake until late afternoon. Worse some days, not as bad on other days but never being able to achieve a state of deep relaxation which the body needs to do its repair work, not even in sleep. My nervous system seems to have been stuck in a permanent state of fight/flight/freeze.

 

Apart from a few, brief windows, my life for the last 4 – 5 years has generally been based around survival and desperately wanting some relief from this ongoing nightmare which my life turned into.  I’ve been recovering, that’s obvious, but its been very slow progress. My pattern has been one of regular fluctuations between awful waves and a slowly rising baseline, with a handful of very short windows of ‘normality’ which up until last month, only lasted for a few hours, to a day and a half at most, but I could count them on one hand.

 

Last month I had what I thought was going to be lasting recovery, an 11 day window of high energy and motivation. The intense fear dropped away and in hindsight, I think I may have been a bit manic in my response to feeling so much better. I was trying to make up for lost time and pushed my weakened body too hard, trying to get some enjoyment out of hobbies and projects which up until then had become triggers for anxiety and dread.

 

On Friday, when my package was delivered, the worst of the symptoms had subsided for the day and I was heading towards the early afternoon phase  which meant as long as I kept away from most stimulation and controlled my environment, then I could maintain a semi-relaxed state which was bearable. This meant staying in my room, avoiding other people and finding non-arousing things to do on the internet to distract me. These uncomfortable physical sensations would fill my whole awareness if I didn’t keep myself focused on something else.

 

So I ate half a tablet, which amounted to 50mg of L-Theanine and went back to what I had been doing. Within half an hour I thought I noticed a kind of relaxed feeling in my body and mind, I was feeling much calmer than I should be at this time of day. But I dismissed it as a placebo effect or perhaps my imagination, but within 45 minutes, I couldn’t deny it any longer, that half a tablet of a natural substance was having an effect as significant as if I had taken a combination of  Xanax (when they still worked) and a dose of my previous ADHD medication.

 

I had a lovely afternoon catching up with 4 years of review writing on my iHerb account. I was calm, relaxed, happy, creative, focused and feeling wonderful. I should probably also mention that I had been suffering with sinus issues, headache and jaw/tooth pain for about two days and these were getting worse, especially the tooth pain, I was taking small amounts of aspirin to deal with it. But in spite of these physical issues, I was still feeling wonderfully calm and happy.

 

I wish I’d kept notes those first two days of taking it. But I hadn’t expected the miraculous effect it’s had on me, so it wasn’t until Sunday I started writing down my dosing experiments and the results. Along with the chewables, I had also ordered a bottle of Doctor’s Best brand 150mg Suntheanine L-Theanine in capsules. I’ve been experimenting with doses ranging between 50mg and 150mg taken at various times of the day. I’ve also combined it with small amounts of caffeine like a weak cup of tea or half a cup of real coffee, its supposed to be synergistic with caffeine and many people find this combination promotes the kind of calm focus needed for study and cognitively challenging tasks, there have been studies showing this supplement lowers stress and improves performance when used in this way.

 

I’ve read hundreds of reviews on iHerb and Amazon for this supplement and many people take it at night for improved sleep. So on Sunday night I took 75mg (half a capsule) at 11:30 before going to sleep. I didn’t like the way it effected my sleep, I was relaxed all night and woke the next morning feeling refreshed, but it had felt like I hadn’t really been asleep, a slight awareness had remained all night, which I didn’t like, it was as if I had spent the night in a deep meditative state rather than actually being asleep. So since then I haven’t taken any past 5pm. But from what I’ve read online, many people take 200mg in the morning and 200mg at night and they have less anxiety during the day and sleep better at night.

 

But for me it’s a daytime supplement and what I’ve found by taking it this week is that my sleep has been improving anyway. Last night I went to sleep at 10:30 and slept all the way through until 5:30. This morning I woke up with no feelings of adrenaline, cortisol,  dread or any of the usual morning horrors I’ve been dealing with the last 4 – 5 years. I think this supplement has been bringing my stress levels down during the day and this decrease in stress is allowing my body to heal and come into balance again at a much faster rate than it has been. That’s just a theory, but its definitely doing something helpful.

 

The effect of this supplement is nothing like my recent window. I’m not full of energy and motivation, impatiently trying to do everything as fast as possible, pushing myself past my own physical limitations which caused pain,stress, exhaustion and a subsequent crash.

 

Nope, I’m calm, content, still hanging out mostly in my room, doing what I usually do, but I've felt very different. As this week has been progressing, the underlying fear/anxiety/fight and flight response, has been diminishing. When I have got up and gone out to do things, its been without the undercurrent of fear which has been following me around for the last several years, and if I’m honest, has been following me around at a low level my whole life.

 

My appetite and enjoyment of food has been changing too. I’m getting hungry in the morning and ready for breakfast much earlier. Previously its been difficult eating before noon, I’ve had to force myself and it hasn’t been pleasant, but now I almost can’t wait until 8am which is when I usually eat some ricotta cheese with my morning supplements. In spite of my sore gum and tooth pain, I’m enjoying food more..the taste anyway, its been painful to eat though. I’ve been making and tolerating a green smoothie every day and thoroughly enjoying making them, it used to be an anxiety provoking chore.

 

But rather than saying my appetite has increased, its more that it has 'normalized'. I'm feeling hungry at regular intervals through the day now and have a taste for small, healthy meals. Previously I was having problems eating through the day, then in the evening I was craving high density foods and wanting a large meal, which left me unsatisfied and craving sweet foods and carbs later in the evening. Not now.

 

I laid out in the hot midday sun yesterday, for about 20 minutes and it felt normal. My body seemed to be reacting the way it used to when I would lay in the sun, it felt pleasant, warm and enriching, like as if my skin was soaking in the goodness. I was having pleasant memories from the past of good times laying on beaches, I was grateful to be experiencing pleasant memories again, for the last few years the only memories I’ve been able to access were bad ones. Being able to connect with pleasant beach memories gave me hope that in the future I will be able to lay on a beach again and feel good. All my attempts at going to the beach the past few years have resulted in DP/DR, dread, horror, confusion, disappointment, despair and hopelessness…and wanting to get home as fast as possible. But now there is hope.

 

But I had a bad day yesterday. I woke at 5:30 and by 6am had got myself together enough to decide I would take a 100mg chewable tablet with a glass of water, rather than the powder from the 150mg capsule poured into a cup of green tea, which is what I had done the previous morning.  There was really no reason for me to make this change because the previous day had been a good day, but I was still experimenting, trying to find the lowest possible dose which would work for the longest time without causing negative effects. From my research I’d learned that L-theanine has a half life of about 3 hours, with it being completely gone from the body in 24 hours. When I took 50mg I had noticed the calmness wearing off after about  3 hours and being back to my ‘normal’ withdrawal anxiety after 4 hours. If I took a higher dose, it seemed to last longer, but I would get a very slight dizzy/light headed feeling, for about an hour, not unpleasant at all, but something I noticed.

 

But yesterday morning by 9am I had written in my notes that I was having a bad day. I became worried that the honeymoon was over, that the placebo effect was wearing off and it was now time to face reality again, back to snails pace recovery. As the morning progressed I felt worse and got more miserable. Had it been a placebo effect? Had it worked, but now didn’t?  Was this one of those anomalies that when supplements are taken in withdrawal, they help for a while but then don’t and then turn paradoxical?

 

I realized that it couldn’t have been a placebo effect because my daughter had asked to try one of my new supplements two nights ago, I had told her a little bit about them and what I’d learned from my research. She had a heavy study night ahead, was drinking coffee and wanted to see if one would help. An hour later she had been amazed at how well it was working for her. She said all the anxiety about what she was having to do just disappeared and she was focused and clear and was just getting on with it very easily. She asked if she could have some more for the following week… so it wasn’t just me imagining it, these things work.

 

So I took a good look inside myself at what I was actually feeling… physical pain, my tooth and jaw was really hurting, my headache had come back. I was irritable. I was thinking about a current family situation and how the dysfunctional dynamics of my family had recently become exacerbated (again) because of it, and I was concerned that it was likely to become even worse if a decision was made one way and not another and frustrated that I seem to be the only one in my family who can actually see these destructive patterns as they are playing out… but there was still no foundation of fear and dread in my experience,  just frustration, pain and irritability. So I concluded that it was just a bad day, the ‘normal’ kind and took another aspirin for the pain and then felt a little better.

 

Today I’m back to what seems to be my new normal. My tooth/jaw ache is much better. After talking with my mum yesterday afternoon, it seems things on the extended family front have settled down again for now. The calmness had come back by last night anyway and now my experience of life is one of ‘everything being ok’ again.

 

To be fair, its only been a week, so I can’t legitimately claim that L-Theanine has fixed me and now I’m all better. But for me, the symptom, which has been the most debilitating and seems to have been a source of continual stress on my body and mind is now gone. I’m able to be relaxed all day, rather than just for a few hours each night.

 

Being able to achieve a constant relaxed state, without any negative effects, addiction issues or toxicity seems to be putting my recovery on a much faster track and life has suddenly become bearable again and dare I say…. even pleasant. The trauma and bad memories of the last 8 years of my life are receding into oblivion at a fast rate, I can’t seem to connect with much of it emotionally any more and I don’t want to, so I’m not trying. Instead I’m able to elicit nicer memories and conjure up in my mind peaceful, pleasant possibilities for the future, I wasn’t able to do this before this week, no matter what I tried.

 

L-Theanine seems to have unglued a switch which had become stuck. Maybe I don’t even need to take it any more and its done its ‘job’. Its been 6 hours since I took 75mg in a cup of camomile tea early this morning and I’m still feeling fine. I have plans for this afternoon, I’m going out to several places and looking forward to it. Not that I’m doing anything special, but it will be nice to be out there in the world, engaged in something without having a constant feeling of imminent danger coursing through my body.

 

I’ve been a bit hesitant to write this review, because I hate the thought of getting other peoples’ hopes up, have them try it and it not work. Withdrawal seems to manifest in each of us differently, effecting different body systems in different ways. For me, this appears to have targeted one of my major NS malfunctions. I suspect it wasn’t functioning particularly well most of my life, even pre-drugs, but in withdrawal it went completely off the rails. I feel better than I have my whole life… calmer, more relaxed and content with life just the way it is, right now. I don’t need anything to be different. But as I wrote, its only been a week, so anything could change again.

 

Sadly, this isn’t going to work for everyone. But I would say if you have symptoms which are of the anxiety/fear variety or if your previous problem was too much anxiety rather than depression or some other symptom antidepressants were supposed to fix, then I would say give L-Theanine a try.

 

And  if you do, please get the Suntheanine kind which is pure, patented and guaranteed to have the quantity of L-Theanine it states. Take enough so that you actually give it a chance to do something, maybe after testing a low dose first to make sure its safe for you.

 

If you drank green tea in the past, thinking it may help, but noticed no particular effect, that’s because the quantitiy of L-Theanine in the average cup of green tea you buy from your local grocery store is between 5mg – 20mg, not enough to do anything noticeable and the caffeine in it is likely to offset any calming effects anyway.

 

One more point, I’ve been completely drug free for well over 2 years now. If you are still taking medication or tapering, I have no idea how it might interact with what you are still taking. Studies and reports I’ve read indicate that L-Theanine acts on GABA, dopamine and induces an alpha brain wave state, so take that into consideration.

 

I'll copy part of this to the L-Theanine topic. If anyone decides to try it, do let me know.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Blimey Petunia, that's almost too hard to fathom.  I'm so happy for you being able to feel so well after such a long haul.  I really really hope it continues for you.  And I totally get those feelings of wanting a good thing to be true, but then having a background feeling of 'let's not get ahead of ourselves...'  When what you really want to do is jump up and down with excitement. 

 

I think you should do some jumping anyway, if only to celebrate the good days you've already had.

 

Looking forward to updates too.

KarenB

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I think you should do some jumping anyway, if only to celebrate the good days you've already had.

 

Thanks for the reminder Karen.  I had a really great day a few weeks ago where I just enjoyed feeling good.  I had forgotten about it.

 

Petunia, hope it continues for you.

 

CC

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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 Hi Petunia.

 

You must be feeling very encouraged, about this very positive upturn in your symptoms. To be honest , I am too. This could be a useful supplement for certain people, in withdrawal. Today , I just had my own anxious experience. I had to " escape"  the supermarket , in a  high " fight /flight" mode, also experiencing heart palpitations and panic.  I also have withdrawal insomnia, on a consistent basis, and after reading this , I will certainly try the L- Theanine , as it seems to help with a lot of those particular symptoms. You might be having a window regardless of this , but it does seem as though the supplement is helping things along. I feel  very optimistic for you . I suppose we must be cautious, but if I were you, I would feel like doing a little " happy dance".   :)

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Petu,

 

Very exciting!

 

Please do keep us updated as we all use you as our official L-Theanine Guinea pig!

 

Glad you are having this improvement,

 

ANDY

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Ridiculously long review of L-Theanine  (Suntheanine formula)

 

My order from iHerb arrived at 11:30am last Friday, the 20th. Unlike recent previous deliveries, this time I was filled with real hope and a high level of expectation. For some reason, I was almost certain L-Theanine was going to be my miracle cure. For the life of me, I don’t know why, and I can’t even remember why I started researching this infrequently occurring, non-essential amino acid properly.

 

Sure I’d heard of it. I knew it was ‘that stuff in green tea’ and good for us in some way. But until a couple of weeks ago I had no idea just how many people find this substance reduces their anxiety, improves sleep and reduces other effects of stress. So I ripped open the box, took out the bottle of Natural Factors Suntheanine 100mg chewables and opened it to find some very large tablets inside.

 

From all the research I’ve done, I knew that people generally got a good response from doses of Suntheanine, the purest form of L-Theanine in ranges from 100mg to 200mg. But my nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal, I didn’t want to risk a bad reaction, but at the same time, I didn’t want to take something and have no response at all because I wasn’t taking enough, then give up, thinking it didn’t work. So I cut one of those big tablets in half and put it in my mouth. It was delicious, a sweet fruity flavor, more like candy than a supplement.

 

I should probably say something about how I was feeling at the time, the current state of my withdrawal symptoms before I took it.

 

I was in my typical daytime pattern of having woken too early with adrenaline rushes, high levels of fear and dread and an inner sense of danger. There was mild shaking, body tension, and random neuro-emotions which seemed to be triggered by almost anything from hearing something negative or positive, a random thought,  to noticing a leaf laying on the ground and suddenly feeling completely overwhelmed by fear. I seem to have been living with a kind of PTSD with my anxiety being triggered randomly by anything, everything and nothing from the moment I wake until late afternoon. Worse some days, not as bad on other days but never being able to achieve a state of deep relaxation which the body needs to do its repair work, not even in sleep. My nervous system seems to have been stuck in a permanent state of fight/flight/freeze.

 

Apart from a few, brief windows, my life for the last 4 – 5 years has generally been based around survival and desperately wanting some relief from this ongoing nightmare which my life turned into.  I’ve been recovering, that’s obvious, but its been very slow progress. My pattern has been one of regular fluctuations between awful waves and a slowly rising baseline, with a handful of very short windows of ‘normality’ which up until last month, only lasted for a few hours, to a day and a half at most, but I could count them on one hand.

 

Last month I had what I thought was going to be lasting recovery, an 11 day window of high energy and motivation. The intense fear dropped away and in hindsight, I think I may have been a bit manic in my response to feeling so much better. I was trying to make up for lost time and pushed my weakened body too hard, trying to get some enjoyment out of hobbies and projects which up until then had become triggers for anxiety and dread.

 

On Friday, when my package was delivered, the worst of the symptoms had subsided for the day and I was heading towards the early afternoon phase  which meant as long as I kept away from most stimulation and controlled my environment, then I could maintain a semi-relaxed state which was bearable. This meant staying in my room, avoiding other people and finding non-arousing things to do on the internet to distract me. These uncomfortable physical sensations would fill my whole awareness if I didn’t keep myself focused on something else.

 

So I ate half a tablet, which amounted to 50mg of L-Theanine and went back to what I had been doing. Within half an hour I thought I noticed a kind of relaxed feeling in my body and mind, I was feeling much calmer than I should be at this time of day. But I dismissed it as a placebo effect or perhaps my imagination, but within 45 minutes, I couldn’t deny it any longer, that half a tablet of a natural substance was having an effect as significant as if I had taken a combination of  Xanax (when they still worked) and a dose of my previous ADHD medication.

 

I had a lovely afternoon catching up with 4 years of review writing on my iHerb account. I was calm, relaxed, happy, creative, focused and feeling wonderful. I should probably also mention that I had been suffering with sinus issues, headache and jaw/tooth pain for about two days and these were getting worse, especially the tooth pain, I was taking small amounts of aspirin to deal with it. But in spite of these physical issues, I was still feeling wonderfully calm and happy.

 

I wish I’d kept notes those first two days of taking it. But I hadn’t expected the miraculous effect it’s had on me, so it wasn’t until Sunday I started writing down my dosing experiments and the results. Along with the chewables, I had also ordered a bottle of Doctor’s Best brand 150mg Suntheanine L-Theanine in capsules. I’ve been experimenting with doses ranging between 50mg and 150mg taken at various times of the day. I’ve also combined it with small amounts of caffeine like a weak cup of tea or half a cup of real coffee, its supposed to be synergistic with caffeine and many people find this combination promotes the kind of calm focus needed for study and cognitively challenging tasks, there have been studies showing this supplement lowers stress and improves performance when used in this way.

 

I’ve read hundreds of reviews on iHerb and Amazon for this supplement and many people take it at night for improved sleep. So on Sunday night I took 75mg (half a capsule) at 11:30 before going to sleep. I didn’t like the way it effected my sleep, I was relaxed all night and woke the next morning feeling refreshed, but it had felt like I hadn’t really been asleep, a slight awareness had remained all night, which I didn’t like, it was as if I had spent the night in a deep meditative state rather than actually being asleep. So since then I haven’t taken any past 5pm. But from what I’ve read online, many people take 200mg in the morning and 200mg at night and they have less anxiety during the day and sleep better at night.

 

But for me it’s a daytime supplement and what I’ve found by taking it this week is that my sleep has been improving anyway. Last night I went to sleep at 10:30 and slept all the way through until 5:30. This morning I woke up with no feelings of adrenaline, cortisol,  dread or any of the usual morning horrors I’ve been dealing with the last 4 – 5 years. I think this supplement has been bringing my stress levels down during the day and this decrease in stress is allowing my body to heal and come into balance again at a much faster rate than it has been. That’s just a theory, but its definitely doing something helpful.

 

The effect of this supplement is nothing like my recent window. I’m not full of energy and motivation, impatiently trying to do everything as fast as possible, pushing myself past my own physical limitations which caused pain,stress, exhaustion and a subsequent crash.

 

Nope, I’m calm, content, still hanging out mostly in my room, doing what I usually do, but I've felt very different. As this week has been progressing, the underlying fear/anxiety/fight and flight response, has been diminishing. When I have got up and gone out to do things, its been without the undercurrent of fear which has been following me around for the last several years, and if I’m honest, has been following me around at a low level my whole life.

 

My appetite and enjoyment of food has been changing too. I’m getting hungry in the morning and ready for breakfast much earlier. Previously its been difficult eating before noon, I’ve had to force myself and it hasn’t been pleasant, but now I almost can’t wait until 8am which is when I usually eat some ricotta cheese with my morning supplements. In spite of my sore gum and tooth pain, I’m enjoying food more..the taste anyway, its been painful to eat though. I’ve been making and tolerating a green smoothie every day and thoroughly enjoying making them, it used to be an anxiety provoking chore.

 

But rather than saying my appetite has increased, its more that it has 'normalized'. I'm feeling hungry at regular intervals through the day now and have a taste for small, healthy meals. Previously I was having problems eating through the day, then in the evening I was craving high density foods and wanting a large meal, which left me unsatisfied and craving sweet foods and carbs later in the evening. Not now.

 

I laid out in the hot midday sun yesterday, for about 20 minutes and it felt normal. My body seemed to be reacting the way it used to when I would lay in the sun, it felt pleasant, warm and enriching, like as if my skin was soaking in the goodness. I was having pleasant memories from the past of good times laying on beaches, I was grateful to be experiencing pleasant memories again, for the last few years the only memories I’ve been able to access were bad ones. Being able to connect with pleasant beach memories gave me hope that in the future I will be able to lay on a beach again and feel good. All my attempts at going to the beach the past few years have resulted in DP/DR, dread, horror, confusion, disappointment, despair and hopelessness…and wanting to get home as fast as possible. But now there is hope.

 

But I had a bad day yesterday. I woke at 5:30 and by 6am had got myself together enough to decide I would take a 100mg chewable tablet with a glass of water, rather than the powder from the 150mg capsule poured into a cup of green tea, which is what I had done the previous morning.  There was really no reason for me to make this change because the previous day had been a good day, but I was still experimenting, trying to find the lowest possible dose which would work for the longest time without causing negative effects. From my research I’d learned that L-theanine has a half life of about 3 hours, with it being completely gone from the body in 24 hours. When I took 50mg I had noticed the calmness wearing off after about  3 hours and being back to my ‘normal’ withdrawal anxiety after 4 hours. If I took a higher dose, it seemed to last longer, but I would get a very slight dizzy/light headed feeling, for about an hour, not unpleasant at all, but something I noticed.

 

But yesterday morning by 9am I had written in my notes that I was having a bad day. I became worried that the honeymoon was over, that the placebo effect was wearing off and it was now time to face reality again, back to snails pace recovery. As the morning progressed I felt worse and got more miserable. Had it been a placebo effect? Had it worked, but now didn’t?  Was this one of those anomalies that when supplements are taken in withdrawal, they help for a while but then don’t and then turn paradoxical?

 

I realized that it couldn’t have been a placebo effect because my daughter had asked to try one of my new supplements two nights ago, I had told her a little bit about them and what I’d learned from my research. She had a heavy study night ahead, was drinking coffee and wanted to see if one would help. An hour later she had been amazed at how well it was working for her. She said all the anxiety about what she was having to do just disappeared and she was focused and clear and was just getting on with it very easily. She asked if she could have some more for the following week… so it wasn’t just me imagining it, these things work.

 

So I took a good look inside myself at what I was actually feeling… physical pain, my tooth and jaw was really hurting, my headache had come back. I was irritable. I was thinking about a current family situation and how the dysfunctional dynamics of my family had recently become exacerbated (again) because of it, and I was concerned that it was likely to become even worse if a decision was made one way and not another and frustrated that I seem to be the only one in my family who can actually see these destructive patterns as they are playing out… but there was still no foundation of fear and dread in my experience,  just frustration, pain and irritability. So I concluded that it was just a bad day, the ‘normal’ kind and took another aspirin for the pain and then felt a little better.

 

Today I’m back to what seems to be my new normal. My tooth/jaw ache is much better. After talking with my mum yesterday afternoon, it seems things on the extended family front have settled down again for now. The calmness had come back by last night anyway and now my experience of life is one of ‘everything being ok’ again.

 

To be fair, its only been a week, so I can’t legitimately claim that L-Theanine has fixed me and now I’m all better. But for me, the symptom, which has been the most debilitating and seems to have been a source of continual stress on my body and mind is now gone. I’m able to be relaxed all day, rather than just for a few hours each night.

 

Being able to achieve a constant relaxed state, without any negative effects, addiction issues or toxicity seems to be putting my recovery on a much faster track and life has suddenly become bearable again and dare I say…. even pleasant. The trauma and bad memories of the last 8 years of my life are receding into oblivion at a fast rate, I can’t seem to connect with much of it emotionally any more and I don’t want to, so I’m not trying. Instead I’m able to elicit nicer memories and conjure up in my mind peaceful, pleasant possibilities for the future, I wasn’t able to do this before this week, no matter what I tried.

 

L-Theanine seems to have unglued a switch which had become stuck. Maybe I don’t even need to take it any more and its done its ‘job’. Its been 6 hours since I took 75mg in a cup of camomile tea early this morning and I’m still feeling fine. I have plans for this afternoon, I’m going out to several places and looking forward to it. Not that I’m doing anything special, but it will be nice to be out there in the world, engaged in something without having a constant feeling of imminent danger coursing through my body.

 

I’ve been a bit hesitant to write this review, because I hate the thought of getting other peoples’ hopes up, have them try it and it not work. Withdrawal seems to manifest in each of us differently, effecting different body systems in different ways. For me, this appears to have targeted one of my major NS malfunctions. I suspect it wasn’t functioning particularly well most of my life, even pre-drugs, but in withdrawal it went completely off the rails. I feel better than I have my whole life… calmer, more relaxed and content with life just the way it is, right now. I don’t need anything to be different. But as I wrote, its only been a week, so anything could change again.

 

Sadly, this isn’t going to work for everyone. But I would say if you have symptoms which are of the anxiety/fear variety or if your previous problem was too much anxiety rather than depression or some other symptom antidepressants were supposed to fix, then I would say give L-Theanine a try.

 

And  if you do, please get the Suntheanine kind which is pure, patented and guaranteed to have the quantity of L-Theanine it states. Take enough so that you actually give it a chance to do something, maybe after testing a low dose first to make sure its safe for you.

 

If you drank green tea in the past, thinking it may help, but noticed no particular effect, that’s because the quantitiy of L-Theanine in the average cup of green tea you buy from your local grocery store is between 5mg – 20mg, not enough to do anything noticeable and the caffeine in it is likely to offset any calming effects anyway.

 

One more point, I’ve been completely drug free for well over 2 years now. If you are still taking medication or tapering, I have no idea how it might interact with what you are still taking. Studies and reports I’ve read indicate that L-Theanine acts on GABA, dopamine and induces an alpha brain wave state, so take that into consideration.

 

I'll copy part of this to the L-Theanine topic. If anyone decides to try it, do let me know.

 

1.  You are a very good writer, and I enjoy reading your posts.

 

2.  My eye pain makes it difficult to read all of your posts.

 

3.  I'm going to try this L suntheanine - my expectations are low, after having some not so amazing experiences recently with supplements - but I like the idea of it and am sometimes willing to give a supplement a try.

 

4.  Regardless of what happens with me, I'm glad to hear you are feeling well and in the process of putting this experience behind you.

 

Cheers,

Osk

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks everyone, AliG and Osk, I hope the L-Theanine works for you, I will be looking for your reports on the L-Theanine for anxiety, insomnia  thread.

 

After two really good weeks, it looks like I'm in another wave. As long as I've been going through this, when a wave hits, I'm still shocked, confused and can't figure out what's going on for a few days. The doomy, gloomy, hopeless thinking automatically kicks in, until I figure it out again.

 

But first, a little L-Theanine update.

 

I love it and I'm so glad I took the risk to try it. While I was at baseline and taking it regularly, my life was good, not perfect of course, but I was happy and content and able to do what I wanted to do. I was easily able to maintain healthy routines, had focus, motivation and was starting to get back my good feelings. The future was again looking bright and meaningful.

 

There was no rebound effect, my sleep was improving, I was waking later and cortisol mornings were decreasing in intensity. I had a couple of mornings with none at all.

 

But I'm still in withdrawal and that means windows and waves. Or in my case, baseline, waves and the occasional odd window.

 

This wave has brought the return of some old symptoms, slightly milder than what I last remember. I'm not sure if it was triggered by anything, there were certainly a few things which may have contributed... I've been doing more because I've felt better. I also haven't been so strict with my diet. But perhaps it was going to happen anyway.

 

When I first started feeling awful again...last Wednesday, it began as a growing inner anger/resentment/restlessness kind of sensation. There was like an expanding physical pressure building, a little like akathisia I suppose, but different, instead of having a fear/dread flavor to it, there was an anger/rage feeling about it. I was furious... but couldn't find a logical or reasonable target for this sudden surge of hostile energy.

 

It continued into Thursday and L-Theanine wasn't helping at all. Everything seemed to irritate me. So I stormed outside and attempted to plant the seedlings I had recently bought, it needed to be done, they were drying out too fast in their little tubes. I'd been looking forward to deciding where to put them and lovingly getting them started in their new homes where they would thrive happily through the hot summer months.

 

But here I was resentfully ripping them from their little pots and shoving them angrily into carelessly made holes. I was dropping things and spilling dirt, my heart was racing, sweat was dripping from my forehead, there was no pleasure or satisfaction in what I was doing. It was miserable... then when I was done, I had to clean up the mess I'd made.

 

I could hear my daughter and her boyfriend inside, laughing, playing video games, working on a project together, having a great time... it triggered envy and resentment, my life has never been that great, carefree, supported, healthy, full of hope and promise and possibility. It all just seemed so unfair how some people are born into privileged situations and have enough of what they need to be able to create good lives for themselves, and others don't. I was angry and feeling sorry for myself, it had all gone dark again.

 

I started to wonder if the L-Theanine had turned on me, I'd had a week or two of its help, now I had to pay the price, it 'obviously' wasn't working any more, maybe it was now making me worse.

 

Friday wasn't so bad, I went shoe shopping to replace some shoes which had recently broken. There was no DP/DR, which used to be triggered badly by stores and malls. But Saturday was bad again, I seemed to have suddenly slipped into a deep depression. I stopped taking L-Theanine, didn't take my midday dose and felt even worse. I seemed to be swinging wildly between rage and depression... but no anxiety or fear, apart from a little cognitive anxiety when I thought about this sudden change and being reminded of my total absence of control over my life (again). The more I thought about it, the worse it got, I still hadn't figure out that this was a wave. I was thinking I'd poisoned myself with the new supplement and this was my 'punishment'.

 

Panic was rising and I found myself pinned to my bed, trying to listen to things to calm myself down... it wasn't working, everything I tried seemed to trigger more anxiety.... just like it used to. In the space of 24 hours I had swung from intense rage, to deep depression and now rising panic. I swallowed down half a chewable Suntheanine, hoping it would still work.... and it did. Within half an hour I was feeling calm again.

 

But I'm still in a wave...disturbed sleep, vivid dreams, I woke too early with adreneline rushes, chills, shaking and doomy, gloomy dreadful outlook on life. Chest pain, head noises, sound sensitivity, but still nowhere near as bad as what it was a year ago.

 

But my morning dose of L-Theanine reduced the fear part, plus the added anxiety over the return of all that, the reminder that I have no control over my life, that none of us do really. I'm not feeling so stressed about being back in a wave, about being reminded that recovery isn't linear, that there are no magic cures. Even though I've found something to help with one symptom, I've still got to wait for all the others to run their course naturally.

 

If I had been offered L-Theanine for anxiety, before I ever put a Zoloft in my mouth, then I wouldn't be going through this difficult recovery process now. Its something I can use to help manage anxiety and stress in the future, and I'm glad I found it now, but I still have to heal from the years of drug damage and its not over yet.

 

Of course drug companies can't make obscene amounts of money out of a naturally occurring substance that actually works, so the long term health and happiness of the many are sacrificed so a few can 'have it all'. Maybe this is what I'm angry about. I've lost my innocence about this world we live in. I used to believe in justice and equality, now I can see it was a bunch of bs I've been fed my whole life.

 

Money and power buys exemption from the rules the rest of us have to follow, it also buys secrecy from this fact. We are born into a game with a very uneven playing field and most of us don't have a clue. Once you find out the truth, its very difficult to find a reason to keep playing...maybe the only reason left is to try and wake everyone else up so more of us have a chance.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Petunia, good news. Thnx for sharing about Suntheanine. So u r 2 1/2 years off now and having good Windows?

Lot of people improve after 2nd year. What did the taurine help? Thnx

1989-2004 low doze Xanax nightly.

2004 w/d in hospital c/t with 3 other meds, (trazadone, phenobarbital, risperdal)

Tapered off those meds in 7 months.

2010- bad anxiety so tried Valium and klonopin, back to hospital, came home on nothing, got much better.

12-23-2013- hospital for anxiety, depression,insomnia...used low dose lamictal 12 days with mitrazapine.

Came home on 15 mg mitrazapine, down to c. 10 mg mitrazapine in c. 3weeks, 7.5 mg in 32 days..

Tapered off mitrazapine March 6, 2014.

Took .75 mg April 20 and 1.05 mg April 21st.

Ended taper March 6, 2014.

Take supplements tho not all daily: fish oil, Vit. C., Vit. D, cal/mag, little multi, mag at night,

Been taking homeopathic remedy since June, 2014 via a Homeopathic M.D. (Trained in psychiatry)1-12, 2018 put on 60 mg cymbalta; 150 lyrica for anxiety and 50 mg trazadone. Tapered of trazadone after 3 months on it and tapered off of lyrica in about 9 months. As of March, 2019, only on 60 mg cymbalta.

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So pleased about the windows! I'm with you on the rage arrghh! Jekyll and Hyde here!

 

Your writing is really great :)

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi, Petu,

 

Wondering how you are feeling several days later?

 

Hope you are okay.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Hi Petunia! Just wanted to drop by to say I'm a fan. I've read so many positive and helpful comments from you in other areas of this site. Reading some of your thread here, it's clear you've been through an awful lot. I hope you are well and remain a fan.

Found this site for real in 2015. Decided to taper slowly.

** I should mention that anytime I haven't been in a wave, I've felt pretty amazing! I only record the waves to look for patterns : ))**

50 mg Zoloft 6/2015, with intermittent fish oil

6/9/15 alternated 50 mg/37.5 mg - doc's idea (she meant well) 6/17 terrible morning anxiety and rumination, flu symptoms, and prickles in legs. 6/18 up to 45 mg liquid Zoloft. 6/26-29 cortisol mornings and bad anxiety. 6/30 started to take mag 100 mg and fish oil regularly with med 7/4 44 mg. 7/8 42.6 mg. 7/16 40 mg. 7/23 39 mg 8/1 32 mg (bad idea).

8/5 fatigue, anxiety, can't sleep, depressed. 8/7 36 mg resolved to be patient and try to keep to THE THREE KIS's. 8/13-15; 8/17- 23 painful physical and mental wave. Started light therapy 20 m in am. 8/25 34 mg, added 80-100 mg liquid mag during day. great window til 8/29 2 day down stretch 9/8 32.8 mg 9/11-14 wave added acupuncture 9/22 31.5 mg teeny wave 10/6 30 mg small grumpy wave 10/19 28.5, same pattern- small wave at day 5. A few tough weeks. Held around 29 until 11/18 when dropped to 28 mg; 11/22 the usual fluey fatigue. 11/30 27 mg 12/14 25.75ish mg "hold til Xmas club" (in my case New Years) Xmas was tough, kept holding: by 1/15, feeling good again. 1/25/16 Mirena IUD out after nearly six years- I think it was affecting my mood and taper- feeling super great! 2/2 down to 24 mg. symptoms much less severe. One day, not too bad wave on 2/8. 2/15 down to 20 mg from 24. A week later, two restless mornings and one morning of brain fog. 3/2 from 20 to 16 mg! Wish me luck.

 

Medicine History:

Currently tapering from 50mg Zoloft. Ten years of SSRI's including Celexa, Prozac and Zoloft, as well as a stretch with Wellbutrin added to the Zoloft. When I started on Zoloft (4 years ago?) I was on 100 but was able to taper down to 50 via 25 mg increments slowly around 2013. Have used light therapy and fish oil intermittently since around 2013. Have tried unsuccessfully to get off the meds since then in what I know now to be too large a taper (for example, jumped from 25 to 12.5 and that did not work). Motivated to do this slowly because that's the only way it will happen.

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Hi Petunia,

 

I too am wondering how you are doing?  I am wishing you relief soon if you are still in your wave.  

 

Always feel inspired by reading your posts.

 

Hibari

9/2013-4/2014:  After moms death, was prescribed a series of meds for short periods of time that didn't work. Zoloft, Lexapro,  Nortriptyline, Liquid Prozac, Cymbalta. 

1/2014-9/2014. Clonzapam: Given Lamictal, stopped Clonzapam at .125mgs  

1/2015-4 2017 Remeron: 41.25 -0.025mgs

7/2015-11/2018 Lamictal: 200mgs-0.05 mgs Had paradoxical reaction to Lamictal wd, broke my heart to take a benzo but wasn't sleeping. 

3/28/2019 -2/5/ 2021  Clonazapam: 0.625mgs-.00115 Med Free 

July 27th, 2022**Severe Setback due to surgery/ anesthesia. 

9/7/22-10/4/22 Trazadone 50-100mgs for sleep, 10/13/22-11/13/22 Trazadone 1 mg to stabilize

10/4/22-11/20/22 Remeron 7.5mgs (for sleep doesn't work) 11/20/22 7.3 - 12/31/22 6.3 

2023: 1/18/23 6.1 - 6/6/23 3.6  6/16 3.4  6/28 3.0 7/12 2.7  7/28 2.5 8/11 2.2 8/23 2.0  9/5 1.8  9/16 1.6  9/30 1.4  10/13 1.2  10/26 1.0  11/9 0.8  11/22 0.6  12/6 0.4  12/23 0.2.

2024 1/4/24  Remeron/Mirtazapine free 

Additional Support:  Armour Thyroid 75mgs, Magnesium Glycinate 300-500mgs,  L-theanine 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thank you everyone for your support, kind words and for asking about me. I'm still in the wave, I've had a rough couple of days actually. Confession time I guess, brought on by something I just read on the benzo buddies site:

 

9. When we start to feel better, it is very typical to try to do too much. We are grateful to be alive and we have energy for the first time in weeks or months. But this can be a dangerous time. When we do to much and take on too much too early, it re-sensitizes the nervous system. It doesn’t prevent healing in the long term, but it can make us feel discouraged. So try to pace yourself, even if you are feeling good.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=146439.10

 

Every time I feel better, I overdo it and then crash. I was doing good the first week of L-Theanine, didn't change my routine or diet, but the second week I got over-confident...

 

This wave has brought the return of some old symptoms, slightly milder than what I last remember. I'm not sure if it was triggered by anything, there were certainly a few things which may have contributed... I've been doing more because I've felt better. I also haven't been so strict with my diet. But perhaps it was going to happen anyway.

 

 

Maybe I will expand on this.  Started drinking caffeine again, almost daily, real tea and coffee with half real coffee. Chocolate Bavarian cake, and not just one small slice either. I completely blame the cake on my mum though, she brought some over, I had a small piece and was fine, it tasted delicious after not eating anything like that for a long time, and I seemed to be ok. My daughter enjoyed it too, so I went out and bought some for us and ate it several nights in a row. It wasn't even good quality cake, cheap, nasty generic brand full of chemicals, preservatives and goodness knows what. I don't know what I was thinking. Oh yes, I remember, that I was recovered and could do what I liked now.

 

I was driving up the freeway in peak hour traffic to buy fig trees and visiting my sister on the same day. Making mental plans to turn my back garden into an orchard and starting cuttings from the new fig trees in preparation. I was driving around looking for various calming herb seedlings to add to the new herb garden, ordering shelving for my little shed to get myself better organized. Visiting my parents, sourcing better suppliers for their various supplements and ordering for them.

 

My short term memory is still pitiful, but the more I think about it, I'm remembering more of what I've been doing...too much.

 

Once again I got over-excited about feeling well enough to do things again, it was wonderful to have my motivation back. I was sleeping better and feeling almost normal in the mornings and certainly much better by midday. I could see a bright future just around the corner. But I quickly went from freeway driving and fig trees to struggling to shower and feed myself again. Its truly frightening how quickly this turns around.

 

I have got to learn to pace myself no matter how I'm feeling.

 

Another thing I seem to do, when I have these bad waves is that I freak out and think all my supplements are suddenly poisoning me, I blame the wave on supplements, food... all the things which are probably helping me, and I stop taking them properly. Once again I stopped the green smoothies, which I'm sure had been helping. I've been sprouting my own broccoli seeds and adding those to the kale and parsley I've been growing. Not the kale, I cut that down, but I started growing herbs instead. I buy organic kale now.

 

In a wave, its difficult to keep up with all the new things I've put in place, trying to keep cuttings alive, sprouts watered, fig trees from drying out, just walking out the back door is difficult again now.

 

But its just a wave, regardless of how it was caused, and it will pass. When I'm back to baseline again, I'm going to treasure it and nurture it and trust that it will last and keep improving into a more sustainable recovery in the future. I have to find some patience. I've estimated that I will probably be mostly recovered by the end of 2017.

 

I must remember to stay calm and keep my life balanced no matter how good I might be feeling.

 

This morning I surprised myself by doing something different when I was slammed awake by the 5am adrenaline surge. I jumped out of bed, got dressed and went for a walk. It was awful, but I was in one of those end of my rope panic states, willing to try something different, anything to stop the sensations.

 

It was cold and gloomy, no one was around and as I walked down the road, I saw a stack of mail on the ground, wrapped in a rubber band. It seemed odd, I looked at the address on one of the envelopes, it was a house further down the street. I could understand a single envelope blowing out of a box, but this was a heavy stack of mail, and how would it have ended up half way down the street?  Anyway, I delivered it to the right house and carried on walking, but it was bothering me my whole walk, it seemed puzzling, I wanted to know what had happened, why it had ended up on the ground a block away. I was getting colder and more disturbed, so I cut the walk short and went home, it was a relief to be back to safety, where things felt less strange.

 

Appetite gone, cognitive function deteriorated, fear rising and feeling like I was choking in depression. I spent the morning laying on my bed listening to some adyashanti, dosing on and off. It kept me just this side of panic. But even he was causing spikes of adreneline today, almost any thought related to the future causes waves of anxiety when I'm like this. Staying calm depends on keeping my thoughts firmly planted in right now.

 

It took me a long time to completely believe that what I'm going through is recovery from drug damage rather than a relapse of a previous condition, because I went on these drugs for anxiety, and most of my symptoms could easily be classified as forms of anxiety. But I never had depression before going on drugs, I had the normal down days and periods of boredom and lack of motivation, but my first extended depression started a few weeks after I started on Zoloft.

 

Now, in withdrawal I've experienced what probably gets called clinical depression. It feels deeper and darker than anything a person should naturally experience. Its like an inhuman void where I feel completely cut off from any source of goodness, light or love. I feel totally isolated from anything warm, comforting or safe. Completely disconnected from life. Thankfully, it doesn't last long, not more than a few hours at most, but I can imagine that if someone had to live in this state for an extended period of time, it would be unbearable. What makes me furious is that it has to have been the drugs which made my brain unbalanced enough to be experiencing this. Maybe I can't blame them for the anxiety, because I had some of that to start with, but there's no doubt this 'depression' is iatrogenic, it seems to come towards the end of bad waves, part of a cycle of physical hyper-arousal fear symptoms, followed by an energy/chemical crash. I don't know what's actually going on in my brain, but that's what it feels like.

 

Its evening now and I don't feel so bad. I think this wave must be coming to an end, yesterday I felt bad all day, that's how it usually goes. Baseline I feel better earlier in the day. Waves I feel bad all day long.

 

Thankfully I can sleep, even in waves. I think my sleep is permanently fixed now. Hot flashes and sweating hasn't come back either :)  I occasionally get a warm flash, that's as bad as it gets now.

 

Oh! one more thing, chest pain, that's new. I have a new symptom, yay! :) ... just to keep this interesting. It comes and goes, its not that bad.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Hi Petunia,

 

You do have a way with words.  This rang true for me.  Quote :

 

" Now, in withdrawal I've experienced what probably gets called clinical depression. It feels deeper and darker than anything a person should naturally experience. Its like an inhuman void where I feel completely cut off from any source of goodness, light or love. I feel totally isolated from anything warm, comforting or safe. Completely disconnected from life. Thankfully, it doesn't last long, not more than a few hours at most, but I can imagine that if someone had to live in this state for an extended period of time, it would be unbearable. What makes me furious is that it has to have been the drugs which made my brain unbalanced enough to be experiencing this. Maybe I can't blame them for the anxiety, because I had some of that to start with, but there's no doubt this 'depression' is iatrogenic, it seems to come towards the end of bad waves, part of a cycle of physical hyper-arousal fear symptoms, followed by an energy/chemical crash. I don't know what's actually going on in my brain, but that's what it feels like."

 

I was so surprised when you said  quote :     " Thankfully it doesn't last long , not more than a few hours at most, but I "can imagine that if someone had to live in this state for an extended period of time , it would be intolerable ."    End quote.                    

 

I have been living like this for more years than I can remember.  A few hours ? That would be heaven .

 

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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I totally get the overdoing thing.  I too was feeling good the day before Thanksgiving and then started pushing activities fueled by more coffee.  It took it's toll and as I finally crawled out of a wave 3 days ago, I realized I just can't do those things. 

 

I also understand the feeling of being in a clinical depression state of mind.  Just remember that the brain that is in a wave has no perspective on what is real.  We experience rebound depression and anxiety and then since our brains are compromised at that time, we can't rely on them to soothe us with logic.   It is the worst feeling but trust that it will pass. 

 

I have read different posts on your thread and you are making such progress. 

 

You are not alone Petunia and you will get through this wave.   Hang in there!

9/2013-4/2014:  After moms death, was prescribed a series of meds for short periods of time that didn't work. Zoloft, Lexapro,  Nortriptyline, Liquid Prozac, Cymbalta. 

1/2014-9/2014. Clonzapam: Given Lamictal, stopped Clonzapam at .125mgs  

1/2015-4 2017 Remeron: 41.25 -0.025mgs

7/2015-11/2018 Lamictal: 200mgs-0.05 mgs Had paradoxical reaction to Lamictal wd, broke my heart to take a benzo but wasn't sleeping. 

3/28/2019 -2/5/ 2021  Clonazapam: 0.625mgs-.00115 Med Free 

July 27th, 2022**Severe Setback due to surgery/ anesthesia. 

9/7/22-10/4/22 Trazadone 50-100mgs for sleep, 10/13/22-11/13/22 Trazadone 1 mg to stabilize

10/4/22-11/20/22 Remeron 7.5mgs (for sleep doesn't work) 11/20/22 7.3 - 12/31/22 6.3 

2023: 1/18/23 6.1 - 6/6/23 3.6  6/16 3.4  6/28 3.0 7/12 2.7  7/28 2.5 8/11 2.2 8/23 2.0  9/5 1.8  9/16 1.6  9/30 1.4  10/13 1.2  10/26 1.0  11/9 0.8  11/22 0.6  12/6 0.4  12/23 0.2.

2024 1/4/24  Remeron/Mirtazapine free 

Additional Support:  Armour Thyroid 75mgs, Magnesium Glycinate 300-500mgs,  L-theanine 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hibari stole my thunder!  I hate being second to the party!  :angry:

 

It is so true that when we feel a little better we want to do more.  But, the very fact that we are in a position to overdo it is a sign of healing.

 

Petu, that is a great update.  You may not be able to see it for what it is from where you sit, but for those of us who care about you, it was very uplifting.  You ARE healing!

 

;)

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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I send you hugs. I share your feelings so much

PROBLEM. PSSD 
Symptons:- 1 Not arousal, not libido: the sensation of "I could live without sex" - 2 I can get orgasms but they are much weaker. -3 I have noticed that my breast  don´t get swollen before menstruation (This has improved) -4  Lack of vaginal discharge (this has improved)- 5 Barely absence of vaginal odour
Induced by In Escitalopram 1 year and two months
Begining:10 mg per day -Jun 2013 to May 2013-
Reduce to 10 gr every two days - Jun 2013 to Aug 2013

Eventually quit on September 2013.

Slight Improvements. Window:  3 days on August 2015

WHY STARTING WITH IT?Great general anxiety that Esc. cured . Novemb 2015 anxiety hasd returned
Natural suplements or herbs you are having?: 1500 mg oil fish omega 3 daily since 28/1/2014.

 

December 15. 0,5-1 gr lorazepam per day. 

"if you come up with any good ideas, please let me know"

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May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

 
Wow Petu I thought you were further into the process I am not sure why likely my sense of time is messed along with a few other things just now.  It is sometimes difficult to recall the early years but reading your update brought it all home not a bad thing not for me.  I would like to say your reaching the 3 year marks this soon  makes this coming year hopeful at least.  Many said a lot of healing comes around that time.  I sure hope your one of those it is always good to have a mark to hit. Or I found it helpful at least I was so waiting for 3 years to be all better that was my hope I wasn't one of those people but I was better in year 3 than I was in year 1 way better and a little better than  year 2. 
Onward and upward my friend hope this wave is ending as you think. 
Peace B

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

I've been putting off updating, hoping for a new year window, so I could report something positive, but protracted withdrawal doesn't seem to recognize ... I don't know what to call it, I've got cognitive issues again and can't find words :(  well not the good ones anyway.

 

I recovered from a double wave. The second one was caused by gum/jaw issues and some intense pain for about a week. I took ibuprofen and I don't think that went very well, but I'm not sure. I can't remember if I wrote about any of the second wave or not. I hope not, I'm finding this all quite boring, tedious and going on much too long. I'm tired of myself, the ongoing symptoms and my inability to do anything to pull myself out of this.

 

Here is the list of symptoms from my first post here, I need to add akathisia and DP/DR, two of my worst symptoms actually, I didn't know they had names when I first joined, so didn't know to add them.

 

Some of these have gone or improved, so I'll make notes and adjustments. I added links to the relevant topics in the symptoms forum so if anyone is interested, you can check out the experiences of others too.

 

I’m exhausted all the time, but it’s a weird kind of fatigue, its like a combination mental/emotional tiredness, not like anything I’ve ever felt before. I spend most of my time at home, on the internet on my bed, just doing the things I need to do to take care of myself and my teenage daughter. Its very difficult just getting out to buy a few groceries, but when I do go out, I function perfectly in a kind of dissociated way, like I’m not even in my own body, I’m watching myself like from a distance, wondering who it is that’s behaving so ‘normally’ when I’m feeling so awful. (DP/DR)

 

Waves of negative emotions seem to get triggered by almost everything around me and almost every thought, I try not to think about things or do much of anything so I can avoid the emotional pain that thoughts or experiences bring, (neuro-emotions)


 

Waking at 5am with racing thoughts I still wake too early, but no more racing thoughts, just physical anxiety

Feeling like I haven’t slept at all

Nausea, shaking, dizziness, body pressure, muscle twitches these 3 come back at times, when I'm in a wave, but not so bad

Waves of negative emotion (neuro emotion) even though not as intense or as often, this is still disturbing because it seems to be triggered by 'normal' things which never used to bother me.

Hot/cold flashes, sweating almost completely gone, I still get mild heat flashes, but its more warm than hot, they seem to accompany adrenaline surges.

Constant ringing in my ears I still have this, but have got used to it more, at times it gets worse, the ringing in my right ear comes and goes, but the tone in the middle of my head is constant.

Sensitive to sound, light and smells I still have some sound sensitivity, not as bad or as often.

Can’t watch TV or listen to the radio because its too stimulating Still got this one, but its more unpleasant and disturbing now more than stimulating

Most things are too stimulating now, including being around other people too long this is getting better, and I've learned to protect myself from toxic people and environments

Loss of appetite and loss of weight

Hair falling out

Agoraphobia, mostly during the day, I’m able to go out easier late afternoon towards evening only when in a wave, but I still don't go out or do much probably more now because of habit and anhedonia and the fact that I no longer have a life or anyone to do things with

Memory problems and mental confusion this comes and goes but its much improved

Loss of confidence. Still

Loss of interest in doing anything or going anywhere There has been a big change here which I'm relieved about, when I'm not in a wave, I actually start wanting to get out and do things again and rebuild my life. I'm still not able to put much of it into practice yet, but some motivation is coming back at times.

Can’t get any pleasure out of things any more yes, anhedonia, didn't know what it was called back then, I still have this along with apathy and lack of motivation to put much of my ideas into practice because I know I'm not going to get any pleasure out of doing stuff. I'm also not feeling my full range of emotions yet, the good ones are just starting to make an appearance occasionally but I seem to get easily overwhelmed when they do happen

Loss of hope I only feel hopeless now when I'm in a wave

 

added later:  Akathisia I can't say this is completely gone, because I do get it mildly at times, but it rarely lasts long and moving actually gets rid of it now, it never used to.

                     DP/DR This used to be a real nightmare for me and what kept me trapped at home most of the time, its almost gone and what's left is easy to tolerate, nothing like the trippy experience it used to be.

 

 

So anything else I've missed? Something which didn't even make it onto the first list - exercise intolerance. I still have to be careful. It used to trigger a lot of neuro-emotions, just thinking about it would bring waves of horribleness, then the DP/DR would get worse if I was outside, then sometimes I would get physical pain or blurred vision tachycardia and dizziness... all kinds of scary things would happen...sometimes. Other times I would be fine. Nine times out of ten I'm ok with walking now, but bad memories of all the times I tried and got worse make me reluctant now, but each time I do walk and its ok, it gets a little easier.

 

Fatigue, morning dread, morning adrenaline stuff and when that subsides for the day - apathy and lack of motivation because of anhedonia.

 

I'm 5 years off Lexapro and coming up to 3 years drug free in May. I'm proud of myself for surviving, its been very difficult to keep living through what I can only describe as daily torture with very little relief which goes on day after day. My first two years, I didn't know it was withdrawal, or damage caused by long term antidepressant use. I thought this was the real me. I thought this was what I was going to have to live with for the rest of my life, that I needed some kind of medication.... but nothing worked, it just made me worse. I was beyond desperate, it seemed like I couldn't live without some kind of medication but I couldn't tolerate it either. I seriously thought I was dying of some strange, metabolic illness, which was also effecting my brain and there would be no cure. My body was falling apart, I was barely hanging onto my sanity and I could no longer leave the house to go and find help anyway.

 

I can't remember how, but soon after that I stumbled onto the withdrawal forums, including this site and it probably saved my life.

 

I'm much improved from when I first joined, but still pretty miserable a lot of the time, in general because my life really sucks and I can't do much about improving it yet.  I'm no longer suicidal, I'm not confused about what's going on and I have hope that I'm going to keep improving. But as the months keep moving on turning into years and I'm stuck in a kind of time warp, watching everyone else move on with their lives, experiencing joy and happiness and excitement, while I just feel bad, I'm getting to do the advanced course in acceptance and patience.

 

My daily baseline pattern is high fear and dread on waking which slowly subsides as the day progresses. It doesn't matter what I do, its with me, in my body, effecting my mood and thoughts until it decides to go for the day. Its nowhere near as bad as it used to be, I used to be frozen, terrified, unable to move, on my bed for hours each day, breathing and chanting meaningless words over and over just to hold onto sanity. Now I can get up, make some tea, turn on my computer, still feeling pretty awful, but I'm no longer immobilized in terror every morning.

 

Then it slowly fades away and I'm left with fatigue, apathy and anhedonia, all those lovely low energy symptoms which bring on waves of shame and guilt because I'm thinking to myself something along the lines of "You are feeling better now, you should be happy you are no longer being tortured so get out there and do something, make the most of this moment..."

 

Then I start to feel miserable and hopeless again because its true, I 'should' be feeling happy now, but I'm not, I'm still not able to feel anything good, its either the bad stuff or nothing... and I'm tired, I don't have much energy, so what's the point of doing anything, wasting the little bit of energy I do have when I'm going to get nothing out of it. So I save my energy for when I have to do something.

 

Although on Sunday I went to the beach for a while, and I didn't have to do that. It wasn't the most pleasant of days to go to the beach, it was too hot and crowded, but I was pleased that I was able to feel relaxed there and all the frightening DP/DR had finally gone. The last time I tried going to the beach it was still very bad, for some reason, the beach was something which triggered it the worst, that and  grocery shopping.

 

So now I'm taking Vitamin D,Inositol, L-Theanine, Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine, Ginger, Garlic and Cucurmin. I tried taking a fraction of the recommended dose of a multi again the other day, but it increased symptoms. I still can't tolerate fish oil. But inositol, L-Theanine and Taurine are definitely calming.

 

For the last several years I've been on a quest to find something which will calm my nervous system down, my over active fight/flight/freeze response, the sympathetic NS activation which is over active through most of the day.

 

What I found was that when something did work, it would push me too far the other way into 'depression'. I've also found that when this over activation has calmed down naturally, I've tended to swing too far the other way and become depressed. Unless its a window, but I haven't had many of those. I'm experimenting with Inositol and L-Theanine, very carefully to try and find a balance between calming my body down without causing depression. Nothing seems to help when I'm in a wave, but at baseline, both of them have some benefits.

 

I'm also realizing that if I'd found these supplements before Zoloft, I never would have needed to take an antidepressant in the first place. Then again, if I'd never married my ex-husband I probably wouldn't have needed to either.

 

I just bought some of this because I don't think I eat enough food to get enough nutrition and I can't seem to tolerate multi-vitamins. I've used it twice so far and haven't had a bad reaction. Got it through iHerb. After reading the reviews, I was expecting it to taste awful, but its not bad in almond milk, with some chocolate pea protein, half a banana, a kale leaf and lots of ice.

 

So that's my my first update for 2016. I hope this year brings much healing for all of us.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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I'm proud of you for survivng too...this is a huge achievement in itself from what you have had to endure for such a long time.

 

It's good to see improvement. I know it is far from where you want to be right now but I honestly believe you will see much more healing over the next couple of years. It's still such early days for some in this unfortunately - even at this amount of time off.

Feeling the bad stuff or nothing - eurgh...I can totally relate to that. I don't quite understand how our brains have totally erased those feelings of anything good, nice or just plain 'normal'. You have had a couple of good windows though and its a very good sign. I hope you see many more this coming year. You deserve to.

2008 - Doctors appointment with stress induced anxiety led to Citalopram prescription.

Severe adverse reaction

Mirtazapine prescribed - adverse reaction but told to stay on.

Poop out - December 2013

15mg

Currently on 13.5mg,

April 12mg

May 10th - 11mg

June 10th - 10mg

July 8th - 9mg

September - 0mg

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Hi Petunia.  What an update !  I can understand and empathise with so much of what you write.  I can relate to how tedious and boring this process can be, going on too long. Tired of yourself, the ongoing symptoms and the inability to do anything to pull yourself out of it. I feel the same way, but I haven't done as much time as you or as severely, so I really admire your patience & fortitude in this process. There are a lot of positives here, and I think you just have to hang on to that as much as you can. It's obvious healing is happening, although a little  slower than anticipated . However, it's very positive progress that will continue to bring you to a place of full recovery, in time. I admire you and your strength .  Inspiring. 

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Hi Petunia,

I feel with you and I understand that it is really frustrating and exhausting for such a long time. I admire your spirit and your strength though and I am happy that there is progress with your symptoms. I am sure it will further improve!

In this way I also would like to thank your for always commenting and encouraging me and other people here!!!

All the best,

PB

- Paroxetine since more than 10years

- 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since

- Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise

- Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems

- Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again

 

04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems)

07/20 5mg (less problems)

08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations)

12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Petu,

 

That was an incredible summary and update.  Needless to say, my heart goes out to you that you have been dealing with this process for such a long time and are not yet at the finish line (whatever that is).

 

I guess the good news is that if I had to summarize your post in a single sentence it would be "I am healing."  Yes, you are healing WAY TOO SLOWLY for anyone's liking, but you ARE healing.  I also imagine that if you had come out of the recent wave and been in a window of sorts when you wrote the post it would have a much different tone to it -- it is axiomatic that what we think, write, live and feel is inextricably intertwined with how we feel at the moment we write.  It is hard to remember the better times during the lesser times.

 

My wish for you and, frankly, my honest expectation, is that 2016 will be a year of profound healing for you.

 

You deserve that.

 

All the best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Petunia, I feel for you and understand how exhausting the process is.   I think it's not only the physiological wd but also the energy required to keep us mentally in balance so that we don't panic.  Both are hugely exhausting.

 

As you know I too am taking L-Theanine and was taking a capsule that combined 200mgs of L-Theanine with 100mgs of Inositol.  I have decided to get a capsule with just the L-Theanine because I was finding the Inositol activating.  I'm only going on my body's reaction and will report if I feel a difference.   Don't know if that feels right to you. 

 

You also maybe doing this but I am wearing a sleep mask and ear plugs.  I find the mask made a difference in my morning anxiety-it isn't gone right now because I am in a minor wave but it could be worse without it.

 

You are healing as Andy says, much slower than you want and it's unfair.  But I believe you will continue to get better and better this year. 

9/2013-4/2014:  After moms death, was prescribed a series of meds for short periods of time that didn't work. Zoloft, Lexapro,  Nortriptyline, Liquid Prozac, Cymbalta. 

1/2014-9/2014. Clonzapam: Given Lamictal, stopped Clonzapam at .125mgs  

1/2015-4 2017 Remeron: 41.25 -0.025mgs

7/2015-11/2018 Lamictal: 200mgs-0.05 mgs Had paradoxical reaction to Lamictal wd, broke my heart to take a benzo but wasn't sleeping. 

3/28/2019 -2/5/ 2021  Clonazapam: 0.625mgs-.00115 Med Free 

July 27th, 2022**Severe Setback due to surgery/ anesthesia. 

9/7/22-10/4/22 Trazadone 50-100mgs for sleep, 10/13/22-11/13/22 Trazadone 1 mg to stabilize

10/4/22-11/20/22 Remeron 7.5mgs (for sleep doesn't work) 11/20/22 7.3 - 12/31/22 6.3 

2023: 1/18/23 6.1 - 6/6/23 3.6  6/16 3.4  6/28 3.0 7/12 2.7  7/28 2.5 8/11 2.2 8/23 2.0  9/5 1.8  9/16 1.6  9/30 1.4  10/13 1.2  10/26 1.0  11/9 0.8  11/22 0.6  12/6 0.4  12/23 0.2.

2024 1/4/24  Remeron/Mirtazapine free 

Additional Support:  Armour Thyroid 75mgs, Magnesium Glycinate 300-500mgs,  L-theanine 

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Just read through all of this. All I can say is you are a very good writer and have come a long way. I am praying for your full recovery this new year.

April 2013 Doc put me back on 40mg of celexa for 2.5 weeks than switched to Paxil 3 weeks adverse reaction and kindling reaction
July 2013 5mg celexa and .5mg klonopin daily

5/15/16 started lamictal and currently at 25mg daily once a day.

1/1/17 crossed over from .5mg klonopin to 10mg Valium.

3/1/17 off celexa from getting down to around .25mg.

5/25/17 started tapering the Valium from 10mg to 9mg

6/25/17 dropped down to 8mg Valium 

currently on 8mg of Valium and 25mg of lamictal once a day in the morning never could handle more than 25mg of lamictal and never really felt anything from it.

7/2/17 updosed to 10mg Valium and holding split twice a day and holding.

3/1/18 dropped Valium from 10mg to 9.5mg

4/1/18 dropped Valium from 9.5 to 9mg still on 25mg lamictal.

Updosed 6/20/18 Valium 10mg and 25mg lamictal and holding.

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A few things stand out for me Petu some I could surely write and have in the past almost word for word that in itself feels a bit sad to me.  Unfair is of course an understatement of the greatest proportion!  Yet here we are still here.  I hope this is the year you turn the corner.  Happy New Year 

I wish you peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Oh! I seem to have stumbled back onto my own thread. Not sure how this happened, it wasn't in my plans and I don't have anything interesting to write about.

 

So lets see what else is here.

 

Feeling the bad stuff or nothing - eurgh...I can totally relate to that. I don't quite understand how our brains have totally erased those feelings of anything good, nice or just plain 'normal'. You have had a couple of good windows though and its a very good sign. I hope you see many more this coming year. You deserve to.

 

Through this whole ordeal, its been a frustrating puzzle as to why we can experience such strong emotions, but only the unpleasant ones, its made no sense to me either. I've never thought of it as having them erased though, just that something was blocking our access to them.

 

On the very rare times when I've had brief windows or a positive emotion has suddenly been aroused, its been almost too much to bear. There have been a few times when I've watched certain music videos, something which I've mostly avoided doing, and I will suddenly be filled with overwhelming emotion, and its like my body is now unable to contain it, its too much and I have to stop watching and do something else. I don't know what's been going on, but my nervous system has become very fragile and I think perhaps shutting off access to some emotions may be somehow protective, allowing me to preserve energy for repairs to what might possibly be more fundamentally damaged 'wiring'.

 

My good emotions seem to be coming back online very slowly now, as my baseline is creeping higher, after each wave it seems to be very slightly improved, if I was going to put a percentage on it, I would guess at about 2%.

 

Thanks for the good wishes for the new year Muddles, I hope you have some improvement this year too.

 

 I can relate to how tedious and boring this process can be, going on too long. Tired of yourself, the ongoing symptoms and the inability to do anything to pull yourself out of it..... There are a lot of positives here, and I think you just have to hang on to that as much as you can.

 

Thanks Ali, your comments got me thinking about how people in general, those not in withdrawal, deal with the boredom and monotony which can be very normal parts of most people's lives. Pre-withdrawal, I didn't tolerate boring routine well and when activities, even necessary ones became monotonous, I was quickly looking for change, or was inventing new ways of doing things so I wouldn't get bored. This didn't go down well with my ex-husband, he had very rigid ideas about how a 'wife' should behave. In hindsight I can see that antidepressants sort of made it easier to tolerate huge chunks of my life which had become devoid of meaning and challenge. Its sad really, the emotions were trying to tell me something and I poisoned them away to minimize conflict.

 

Now boredom has risen to a whole new level and due to being too sick to do much about it now, I'm having a crash course in learning how to tolerate it, to face it, to feel it, to let it do its worst and watch myself survive anyway. Its losing its power and I'm gaining very real strength. When I'm recovered, I doubt I will ever be a victim to boredom again, driven to doing things maybe not in my best interests in order to escape its heavy grip.

 

I'm using all this nasty stuff as fodder to propel me along my spiritual path. I'm not sure I would have got much further than where I was if this hadn't have happened.

 

In this way I also would like to thank your for always commenting and encouraging me and other people here!!!

 

I appreciate this PB, being able to support others while I've been going through this myself is one of the few things I've been able to do and its helped me to have something meaningful to do to take my attention off myself.  I think we all benefit by helping and supporting each other as much as we are able.

 

 I also imagine that if you had come out of the recent wave and been in a window of sorts when you wrote the post it would have a much different tone to it -- it is axiomatic that what we think, write, live and feel is inextricably intertwined with how we feel at the moment we write.  It is hard to remember the better times during the lesser times.

 

 

You know, I really try and avoid doing this, I guess I'm not as immune to my own current emotional landscape as I think I am. Actually, when I'm really bad, like in the peak of a wave, I'm not capable of writing at all. I can't even put two words together. In a window, I'm too busy catching up with life to waste time rambling here about myself.

 

I'm pretty miserable right now. I had 3 reasonable days, but today I've sort of crashed a bit. Its not a wave, but one of those days where I can't get comfortable in my own mind/body, not even for a moment... some physical pain too. (I hope its not the start of another wave)

 

But today I've had a bit of a breakthrough, maybe its because I've revisited Claire Weekes recently. It didn't take me long this morning, when I realized it was a bad day, to completely accept it and let go of my desire to feel better. I usually struggle in myself for several hours, not accepting reality, but today was a bit different, dare I say it, I'm almost enjoying feeling crappy. No, there's not really any enjoyment going on here, but definitely some relief at having let go of the struggle.

 

Thanks for writing on my thread Andy, I hope you are feeling better again soon.

 

As you know I too am taking L-Theanine and was taking a capsule that combined 200mgs of L-Theanine with 100mgs of Inositol.  I have decided to get a capsule with just the L-Theanine because I was finding the Inositol activating.  I'm only going on my body's reaction and will report if I feel a difference.   Don't know if that feels right to you. 

 

You also maybe doing this but I am wearing a sleep mask and ear plugs. 

 

Its so challenging, even when we do find something that helps, to figure out how much to take and when to take it. I'm still experimenting with these two. You seem to be the opposite of me, I need less L-Theanine and more Inositol. Plus I'm finding that if I take too much inositol it acts too much like a brake rather than being activating.  Too much L-Theanine and I turn into a motionless blob staring contentedly at my ceiling for hours, which is much better than terror, but I'm aiming to find a functional balance.

 

At the moment I'm taking about half a teaspoon of inositol every 4 - 5 hours, that works out at about.... I can't remember. I think I'm taking about 3000mg a day (3g)  With the L-Theanine, I take 50mg once a day or maybe every few days, depending on how I'm feeling.

 

Since I started taking these two supplements, my morning anxiety has reduced considerably and generally subsides completely much earlier in the day... at baseline anyway. I guess it could be a coincidence, but I don't think so.

 

Hibari, please keep us posted on your own experiments with these. Yes, I still use ear plugs for sleep, if I didn't I would be awake all night listening to the birds, they don't seem to go to sleep any more, well not around here.  I don't seem to be bothered by light as much now as I was at first, so I only use my eye mask sometimes.

 

Just read through all of this. All I can say is you are a very good writer and have come a long way. I am praying for your full recovery this new year.

 

Thanks Djones, I know you're going through a rough time again, sending hugs and hopes for you to feel better soon.

 

A few things stand out for me Petu some I could surely write and have in the past almost word for word that in itself feels a bit sad to me.  Unfair is of course an understatement of the greatest proportion!  Yet here we are still here.  I hope this is the year you turn the corner.  Happy New Year 

I wish you peace

 

I'm sorry that some of what I write makes you sad, this is all some pretty sad stuff, so its understandable really, and the fact that for some of us it just goes on year after year and as a new one begins, just like the one 12 months ago, yes, here we still are. Its unbelievable and there are many more of us than those who post here.

 

For me, the worst thing about this is that we are an invisible, unrecognized, invalidated group, unable to get any proper help or support with our efforts to get well.

 

Yes, its also unfair. I used to idealistically believe that life was intrinsically fair and just, that we were all equal and everything always turns out ok in the end. Sort of like some kind of Disney movie... everyone gets what they deserve.

 

But I woke up now, there's nothing fair about life on planet earth, I'm starting to make peace with that reality by looking for deeper meanings in life beyond the superficial appearance of 'the good life'. If we can't change reality, then making peace with it seems to be the next best thing. Thanks BT.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I finally managed to visit my sister again, since my double wave subsided. For anyone who hasn't read my whole thread, she's also in severe withdrawal, one year drug free and much worse than me now. We have a similar drug history, but hers went on a bit longer.

 

Well anyway, I got up there on Monday afternoon and she didn't answer her door. I figured she was still in bed, but then I met her walking down the street, she has been walking every day and is quite a bit better. She hadn't left her house for months, but now is getting out and has even gone grocery shopping for herself.

 

So what caused her sudden improvement? She reinstated....... cigarettes :) about 4 weeks ago and slowly started feeling better and was able to start doing more. She had stopped taking several drugs all at the same time and nicotine was one of them. I'm so happy she's feeling better, her mood is improved too. We were able to talk about things other than withdrawal and symptoms for the first time in ages.

 

So that's my unplanned update, wishing everyone continued healing.

 

 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Yet again I see it this deep state of negativity where we hold ourselves hostage and every bad thing that every happened comes up and hurts worse than it ever did.  

 

I truly believe this is a withdrawal stage.  We should have a thread with this title as it is apparent a lot of people hit it. Apparent to me if not to anyone else.  

Negativity was a state of being for me for a time... now it just visits but can be extremely deep profound and sudden.  When it hits is has a new quality now one that seems dangerous as it is so very strong tho the deep negativity does not last near as long as it once did in part cause I fight back... I still hate it. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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