meistersinger

Alpha-Stim, Fisher Wallace Sota Biotuner, PoNS, and similar devices

310 posts in this topic

MODERATOR NOTE:

Advertisements for these products and the product distributor websites make claims about FDA clearance or approval.  One member has investigated that claim for one specific product and discovered that the device has not been cleared by the FDA. Her post about the Fisher Wallace device is at this link.

 

Please do not take comfort in a claim about regulatory approval, the FDA or similar authority in other countries.

 

If you are considering purchasing one of these products, challenge the marketing claims and call the regulatory body to find out the truth.


This one is an obvious scam. It looks like a device for treating TENS. Supposedly, the FDA cleared it for treatment of anxiety and depression.

 

Edited by scallywag
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Links, please.

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Back in 2008 a I purchased something like that from an EMDR Therapist. It was the size of a cell phone and attached to each ear lobe.

 

It was a gentle ticking sensation. I can't explain how relaxing it was. It stopped anxiety and promoted a good night's sleep. I did this while WDing from Lexapro. It was about $300-$350. It was not Fisher Wallace. It broke after a relatively short time. I didn't replace it and every once in awhile I google it looking for something identical to it.

 

They are more expensive now. I was like a nice meditative state.

 

I don't think I was affected by it in any way other than to relax, stop anxiety and be able to deeply meditate.

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Back in 2008 a I purchased something like that from an EMDR Therapist. It was the size of a cell phone and attached to each ear lobe.

 

It was a gentle ticking sensation. I can't explain how relaxing it was. It stopped anxiety and promoted a good night's sleep. I did this while WDing from Lexapro. It was about $300-$350. It was not Fisher Wallace. It broke after a relatively short time. I didn't replace it and every once in awhile I google it looking for something identical to it.

 

They are more expensive now. I was like a nice meditative state.

 

I don't think I was affected by it in any way other than to relax, stop anxiety and be able to deeply meditate.

 

I had the same thing. Was advertised as a cure for fibro. I did get relaxed, it was like water running (the electrical current) over my skull. I thought the price too high, and it did not help the fibro. The current made me feel light headed, and before I had to assume the $400 cost or whatever it was, I returned it. Sounds like it has been marketed for a number of chronic issues. Oh, it was supposedly ADA approved for fibro. This was back in 2002. ~S

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Very interesting Audio by Bob Beck of the Bio Brain Tuner, http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter333/index.htm he talks about the history and how these machines have helped people with ocd, anxiety, add, stress, INSOMNIA, detox issues with the brain resetting itself in a very short time by these gentle electrical currents. All the balancing chemicals of the brain can start healing and a person can be productive often within 2 weeks. Big Pharma doesn't want it out there and blocks it at every turn. I tried a gentle pulse from my Tens Unit last night at a low frequency, set at the frequencies mentioned in the literature for therapeutic value and took no night time meds. It is placed over the temples on each side of the head. Just turned it up so that I could barely feel the pulse. Usually sessions last 20-45 minutes. After 20 minutes I felt a wave of sleep come over me. I shut it off and for the first time in 10 MONTHS I drifted off into a deep sleep waking 4 1/2 hours later, calm and relaxed. I wouldn't suggest everyone try this with their tens unit, but given these appear to be modified tens units and I had an area where I could reset the pulse and wave form I felt pretty comfortable. I had tried it one time prior to relieve a migraine with great success. I am excited! We will see how it goes tonight and then I am purchasing one.

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I found it... the device I had was the Alpha-Stim. My link. From what I experienced, they really could help sleep because they are so relaxing, though a good nap at the sea might do same. Okay.. I'm dubious because the same technologies are thought to treat so many different maladies. No doubt, the tingling made me light headed, and euphoric. Problem was, it did not ease the pain I felt which was the reason for the tryout. Also, as Nikki commented, the Alpha Stim malfunctioned when I was still having the trial.

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I've heard another woman say she had an electrical gadget that helped her sleep. If I recall, she said it was a small dome that vibrated and she put her hands on it.

 

Something that vibrates or hums could be soothing, I suppose.

 

Googling, I see TENS units are not expensive. Might be something people can try on their own.

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Very interesting Audio by Bob Beck of the Bio Brain Tuner, http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter333/index.htm he talks about the history and how these machines have helped people with ocd, anxiety, add, stress, INSOMNIA, detox issues with the brain resetting itself in a very short time by these gentle electrical currents. All the balancing chemicals of the brain can start healing and a person can be productive often within 2 weeks. Big Pharma doesn't want it out there and blocks it at every turn. I tried a gentle pulse from my Tens Unit last night at a low frequency, set at the frequencies mentioned in the literature for therapeutic value and took no night time meds. It is placed over the temples on each side of the head. Just turned it up so that I could barely feel the pulse. Usually sessions last 20-45 minutes. After 20 minutes I felt a wave of sleep come over me. I shut it off and for the first time in 10 MONTHS I drifted off into a deep sleep waking 4 1/2 hours later, calm and relaxed. I wouldn't suggest everyone try this with their tens unit, but given these appear to be modified tens units and I had an area where I could reset the pulse and wave form I felt pretty comfortable. I had tried it one time prior to relieve a migraine with great success. I am excited! We will see how it goes tonight and then I am purchasing one.

 

 

Made a mistake in explaining what I did being so tired, I placed the tens unit between the neck and skull. I must have had "temples" in my thoughts at the moment, after reading this again I realized what I wrote. NEVER put it on the temples, it is contraindicated and listed as one of the ways NEVER to use a Tens unit. Sorry for that post, wanted to clear it up immediately! I have ordered the brain tuner by Bob Beck so I will report to everyone if this helps with symptoms.

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[sota Bio-Tuner]

 

I found a couple of ppl in other forums who used them for SSRI withdrawal:

 

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1825714#i (very last post)

 

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/anxiety/863957-lightheaded-faintness-head-pressure-other-symptoms-anxiety-brain-ear.html (4th post by Ryanoic)

 

Edited by Altostrata
merged post and clarified

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Interesting interview with Pete Townsend from The Who, used one of these devices to recover from Heroin addiction. Reports no withdrawal symptoms except when the device ran out of batteries unknowingly.

 

http://www.thewho.net/articles/penthouse_1983.htm

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Thanks Alto

 

Some interesting technical info here from some studies:

 

http://www.elixa.com/CES/CESfaq.htm

 

I ordered a Sota BioTuner BT-8 - the only CES company endorsed by Bob Beck - from eBay and should be here tomorrow or Monday. Cost was $237 including postage. I'll write some sort of diary about my experiences with it. I plan on using the most gentle setting for a week and see how things go.

 

BB

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Sota Bio Tuner Experiment

Day 1

Session 1: Tried mode 6. After and during the session I noticed it more difficult to read or assemble sentences in my thoughts. Kind of relaxing. Left me feeling a little sleepy. I can see why people would use this right before bed. No huge difference in my headache level or anything else noticeable.

 

(1hr after use) I’ve been on the sofa verging on napping at midday. Before hand I was quite energetic. I definitely won’t be using mode 3 or 6 again during the day. Would be perfect right before bed. I strongly would advise against driving a vehicle during or within an hour of using one of these.

 

(2hrs after use) The sleepy vague foggy feeling is about 80% lifted.

 

Tomorrow I’m going to try mode 4 in the morning as I’ve heard it’s energizing (as is mode 1). I read somewhere that modes 1&4 is for depression (energizing), 2&5 for insomnia (deep sleep delta waves), 3&6 are for anxiety (relaxing alpha waves). Tonight I'll use mode 6 again right before bed and do another update tomorrow afternoon.

 

The BioTuners modes are 1,2 and 3 in different frequencies. Modes 4,5 and 6 are the same frequencies at half the pulse rate. I think i got that right. So the last 3 are more gentle for ppl who are sensitive. I don't plan on trying the first 3 modes for at least a week to see how my brain handles it.

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Hi

 

thank you for coming back and telling us how you get on with the bio tuner, hope that it continues to help to relax you.

 

poodlebell

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Session 2: Evening session

Tried mode 4. This time I was at my gf’s house. I go there most evenings. I take downloaded movies or tv series and we sleep in the lounge room. I got her to try mode 6 and she experienced non of the drowsiness that I did so it could be something unique to the ssri injury. I didn’t actually enjoy how I felt yesterday so I was hesitant to try any more modes. I waited until later in the night in case it made me very drowsy and I could just go to sleep. Mode 4 didn’t have that effect as strong as mode 6. I used the device while watching tv and I felt fine afterwards. Perhaps even a little more alert this time. Fell asleep about an hour or so later and woke up a couple of times briefly in the night. Nothing unusual. But what was unusual, for both of us, is we woke – or more accurately were woken up by her two toddlers – feeling like we’d had a very good sleep and refreshed. Normally the kids wake us up and we’re grumpy for being woken up and would love nothing more than to get an extra hour sleep in. This time we were both up and in good spirits with the kids immediately. That’s never happened in the 2 months I’ve been seeing her. Could be a placebo effect on my part because I’ve read on other forums that it has this effect. But my partner knows nothing about the BioTuner at all and isn’t even interested in it.

 

Day 2

 

Session 3: Morning session

Did 20mins on mode 4 again. About 30mins after the session had finished, I noticed that spaced out feeling I had yesterday where thoughts are harder to assemble and feeling a bit lazy. This time it was less than 50% of the effect of what I felt yesterday with mode 6. Still, for me personally, I think I’m going to limit my sessions to one at night time as I don’t like starting the day with any kind of sedated/lazy feeling. I think ppl with SSRI injuries might want to limit to one session a day only anyway. So far the headache that I’ve had for the last 6months hasn’t gotten better or worse. I was worried that any kind of stimulation would make it worse. Normally, if I’m stimulated by caffeine or whatever, my headache first gets worse, then my mood drops, followed by another dreaded ‘wave’ that can last a week.

 

That’s all I can think of for this update. Rather than updated daily, I may wait for a week now and report weekly as the effects of these things are supposed to be accumulative.

 

bb

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Hi bb

 

please do do the regular updates as we are all interested in how this goes for you, you seem to have the same spaced out feelings I got with taking a triptan.

 

thanks

 

poodlebell

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ok np's poodlebell

 

Session 4: Evening of day 2

Did 20mins on mode 4 whilst reading things on my computer at 9:30pm.

About half hour after the session finished, I curled up on the sofa behind my computer chair and listened to a interview on youtube and dozed off. The spaced out relaxed feeling that leads to sleep reminds me of getting stoned. Despite my online name, I’ve never been a big smoker but I’ve had my share. I only ever really enjoyed smoking in the evening as I didn’t like the lazy feeling I got off weed as it demotivated me during the day when I don’t really want to lose my motivation. This is definitely going to be a one session a day thing and will be in the evenings. Tonight I'll wait until 10:30pm to do the session as I like to stay up a bit later. If you have insomnia or sleep problems, I think this device will really help. I'm using the mode 4 which isn't even the delta setting. I'd imagine that one would knock me right out. Will try it at some stage and report.

 

So far none of this has lead to a worsening of symptoms. My headache hasn’t gotten worse nor has my mood sunk into a dark hole. These are the things that normally follow any kind of stimulation for me.

 

I started to keep a dream journal the other day after talking to ppl on a lucid dreaming forum. The journal is at home so it doesn’t get filled out when I stay at my gf’s house. It only has 2 entries in it at the moment and the first entry is about 4-5 lines on an A4 piece of paper. The entry I put in this morning filled up the rest of the page. My dream recall was stronger than I’ve ever had before. Dreams slightly more vivid so that may of helped. Haven’t noticed any significant improvements in memory otherwise. This is one of my main goals of using the BioTuner. The SSRI damage ruined my memory. Especially my short term memory. I haven’t been able to learn new things because after I try to, the memory of what I just read or learned fades like a dream when waking up in the morning and then it’s just gone.

 

Everything I've read so far about this device, from the makers and from ppl on forums, says to give it up to 30days to do it's thing. It's not an over night miracle. So far I'm just glad it hasn't made things worse for me. In the back of my mind, there was always that fear.

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Hi BB

 

thanks for keeping up the journal, I am sure that everyone will be interested in how you get on and hope that this gives some degree of help in w/d.

 

I have found that when I am having a bad wave that I get very vivid dreams, in the beginning of w/d they were frightening, but now they seem to be associated with things in the past.

 

Glad to hear that it has not made any symptoms worse, I have tried the triptans 3 times and they have made me sort of spaced out and I have slept well and felt happy and energetic for a few days, but it has not helped with the noise in my ears, the headache or the nausea and this is what I need help for the most, so am hoping that after the 30 days you will be saying that it has helped your head.

 

The memory thing is common, long term memory is fine but short term not so good, I find also that if I have anything important to do, like bank etc, I try so hard to remember that I forget.

 

good luck

 

poodlebell

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Day 3

 

Have decided to take a break from the BioTuner today/tonight. Tho I had a good day today with my gf, as soon as I sit down at my computer I have that vague fatigue feeling (at 7:30pm). Seeing as I’ve just combated 2.5yrs of chronic fatigue (for which a doctor gave me Lexapro that fried my brain, thinking a mood lift would increase my energy), I’m going to listen to my body and do my next session when the sensation wears off. I did do 4 sessions in 48hrs which for me personally could be a little too much. I read on one of the web sites that that sensation can last from minutes all the way up to 72hrs.

 

A few minutes ago I had a flashback as to when I’ve experienced this feeling before. A couple of years ago I tried Zoloft for about a week. 25mg a day. It gave this exact same feeling. It’s more accurate to say that this feeling is more like Zoloft start up effects than it is to compare it to cannabis. The Zoloft start up effects weren’t necessarily unpleasant, but that vague feeling got too much for me and I couldn’t care for my daughter properly. If I feel back to normal tomorrow I think I’ll try doing one session a night from then onwards, depending on how my body responds. I’d like to wait until the vague feeling is 100% gone before I begin new sessions. If that means doing a session every other day or every few days then I’ll go with that. No hurry. So far it’s had a beneficial effect on mood so going to take it slow and find my pace.

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Hi BB

 

I think that it is wise to not do too much at first, could you do 10 minutes each day and see how that goes with the vague feeling. I think that our bodies are so sensitive that anything different affects us, so as with everything its slowly slowly,

 

hope that the vague feeling goes soon.

 

poodlebell

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Hi Poodlebell...

 

I wouldn't use one that I had to put near my skull, no particular reason other than me not wanting there.

 

I did like the one (only one I used) that gently attached to my ear lobes. I guess I just felt safer with it on the ear lobes.

 

It was excellent for relaxation and sleep. It would stopped anxiety very quickly too.

 

Would like to purchase another one.

 

Hugs

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Day 3 (Update)

About an hour after writing my last update, I noticed the vague feeling had dissolved so decided to do my evening session at 10:30pm whilst surfing the net. 20mins on mode 4 again. Was starting to get tired by then anyway so after the session finished I went to bed. Took me longer than I expected to drift off but wasn’t a long time. All through the night I had very vivid dreams. I remember this same thing during the start up of Zoloft. I woke up a few times during the night, but not awake enough to need to get out of bed. Rolled over and dozed off within minutes each time. This morning I woke up earlier than usual feeling like I’d had my normal amount of sleep. The vague sleepy feeling is there but it’s slight. Maybe 20% of what yesterday morning was and I know it will dissolve completely before lunch. 1 session a day seems to be my pace and I’ll go with that.

 

Now that I have my once a day session routine worked out, I will report weekly on the effects it has on memory, headache, mood etc as there won't be much to report on otherwise. And the beneficial effects of these things are suppose to be accumulative anyway

 

bb

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Hi Nikki

 

I am sure that this goes on the ear lobes perhaps bb will clarify.

 

Hi BB

 

thank you again for the update, can see that you will want to do this weekly but if you do see this message can you explain this to me.

 

I went on a review site and saw that you had posted on it. Everyone seemed to be on about lucid dreams and think this is good, I cant understand why they would be good.

 

good luck for the week, hope that it does what it claims

 

poodlebell

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Yes these ones go on the earlobes.

 

As for the lucid dreaming, some ppl just like it as it's another dimension to life i guess. We spend a 3rd of our life asleep so ppl who lucid dream I guess like to make the most of that time.

 

Was going to wait a week but might as well paste my latest update from my journal if anyone is interested:

 

Day 4

Further into the day the vague lethargic feeling got worse. I had to deal with kids in the morning and that is normally overwhelming for me and makes my headache worse. My mood started to dip, and then I had to deal with a doctor who really pissed me off. I was referred to a ‘specialist’ who found it difficult to look me in the eye. He kept talking fast and not letting me get a word in to describe what’s happened to me. Luckily I had written everything down and my GP had forwarded those notes onto him as part of my referral. He deliberately kept avoiding any conversation to do with an injury from these drugs and I was getting agitated. By the time I left I was really pissed as he kept insinuating that my symptoms were a continuation from my previous condition and even try to offer me another drug. ****! Anyway, I didn’t do a BioTuner session on the 4th day. I may do one tonight I’m not sure. I think I’ll go with poodles idea of 10min sessions daily. I want to keep that lethargic feeling to an absolute minimum. Besides yesterdays dip in mood, I know this device is helping with my mood as my 4yr old daughter is my greatest test as her constant questions and demands for interaction really takes me to my limit with my headaches and following mood swings. So far we are doing fine together. Still very much early days so I’m not making any judgments yet, just short term observations. I did wake up this morning (day 5) in a good mood even tho my daughter likes to sneak in my bed in the middle of the night, sleep side ways with her feet in my face and kicking me in the head at her leisure. Normally I wake up in quite a mood after that kind of sleep and I’m fine. Actually we're about to have showers and go visiting old friends i haven't seen in years. Just in the mood for getting out of the house today and socializing a bit.

 

bb

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Hi bb

 

sorry you had a bad experience with the specialist, I think we have all had these. No one wants to admit that pills can cause such problems. I find any extra stress makes me so much worse and then of course my mood goes down.

 

I can imagine being in w/d and having a 4 year old, I have a grandson of 5 and love him to bits but could not have him all the time, have him quite a bit but he goes home. You are having to deal with a lot.

 

Hope that you do continue with the bio tuner as you have not really given it time yet to see if it helps, if it was making things very much worse then you would have to stop

 

good luck

 

poodlebell

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I am on week two using the Bio Tuner, I haven't been as thorough at documenting but I would say it has helped many of my withdrawal symptoms greatly. After 10 months of not being able to sleep, I am dreaming again! Sleeping (2) 3 hour increments per night, 6 HOURS OF SLEEP PER NIGHT! Yahoo!!! Many of the negative thoughts are fleeting and I have noticed my lack of obsessing over things. My anxiety has decreased greatly. It is very calming. Noticed Withdrawal symptoms improving within the first day. Getting out of the house more and accomplishing more tasks. My mood seems to be really good one day, and then maybe a little melancholy or down the next, but given there are external stressors, I can see why one day might be different than the next. I also think that some of the symptoms I have been experiencing, internal tremors, shaky legs, heart beating faster is being complicated by menopause symptoms and lack of estrogen. But I will continue to watch those symptoms and see if they improve. Those symptoms have not responded to the Bio Tuner, but alot of symptoms have. I rotate between 1, 2 and 3 so as to not build up a tolerance to once channel over the other. It is a very mild tingly buzz feeling attached at the ear lobes, and is relaxing to me. For the first two weeks, I did 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at bedtime. My family is ecstatic to see the change in me. I am at the weaning stage now, I went down to once a day and now am using it for 20 minutes every other day. If it helps a little bit, it has been worth every cent. It is suggested that when you wean off, that you go slow and then go once a week, every other week, to once a month, then every 3 months or 6 months depending on if you need a tune up. I am also helping a friend wean off Cymbalta using this device right now and we are having good success, with a noticeable uplift in mood and the ability to move forward with greater ease. So thankful that my mom walked in the door and said, I think I've found something that will help you! I will report back periodically as I stated in the previous post and let you know how things are going. It has been a long road of Anticholinergic Toxicity and Withdrawal from Cymbalta and Strattera Cold Turkey. If I could have withdrawn slowly, I would have but the docs didn't give me that option when they Overdosed me and I ended up in the hospital. Thankful to be finding some relief after 10 months, but one day a time as this is and will continue to be a journey.

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Very interesting, ineedsleep. Can you tell us exactly how you are using the Biotuner (with paragraph breaks, please!)?

 

Thanks for your posts, bb. This could be helpful for some people.

 

Probably the least expensive way to purchase ($225 plus shipping) is to buy from Sota http://www.sota.com/bio-tuner.html Get 10% off the BT8 Bio Tuner with discount code CA52002 or CA50025

 

I wish it were less expensive!

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That's great to hear ineedsleep. I've been having some strange experiences with the BT8. I'm taking a week break from using it for a couple or reasons. Firstly, coming from a recent history of chronic fatigue syndrome, this device spaces me out the following day and I lose my drive to do anything and feel extremely lazy. And I noticed in the last two times I used it, it was giving me depression. That was very strange as I haven't actually felt that in over a year. I haven't really felt any thing good or bad this past year. I was having vivid dreams and last night i had a dream of a 12yr old boy who died from bad reaction to anti depressants and I went on the hunt for the ppl who forced him to take them - enraged. Was very strange. But i had a very deep cry for the kid in my sleep. I found that interesting because I haven't cried in over a year either even tho some periods of withdrawal have been horrific. The ssri injury just blocked any deep feelings. So I'm not sure if this device is good for me or not. On the one hand, I've been feeling deeply, but on the other hand I don't particularly like the feelings. So I decided to take a week off and start from scratch with less frequent sessions as I enjoyed the first few sessions but they seemed to go down hill after that so perhaps for me personally it was too many sessions compounding.

 

If you have issues sleeping and you're wired, this device would be perfect. If fatigue is part of you WD, not sure if this would be so great.

 

bb

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This device spaces me out the following day .

bb

 

This is what happened to me when I used it.. I got spaced out. I tried the device for a few weeks and came to the conclusion that this is all there was, a sense of light headedness that made me spacey. There is a placebo effect for some, but if you have real problems (which we do), this this is not going to help.

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That's great to hear ineedsleep. I've been having some strange experiences with the BT8. I'm taking a week break from using it for a couple or reasons. Firstly, coming from a recent history of chronic fatigue syndrome, this device spaces me out the following day and I lose my drive to do anything and feel extremely lazy. And I noticed in the last two times I used it, it was giving me depression. That was very strange as I haven't actually felt that in over a year. I haven't really felt any thing good or bad this past year. I was having vivid dreams and last night i had a dream of a 12yr old boy who died from bad reaction to anti depressants and I went on the hunt for the ppl who forced him to take them - enraged. Was very strange. But i had a very deep cry for the kid in my sleep. I found that interesting because I haven't cried in over a year either even tho some periods of withdrawal have been horrific. The ssri injury just blocked any deep feelings. So I'm not sure if this device is good for me or not. On the one hand, I've been feeling deeply, but on the other hand I don't particularly like the feelings. So I decided to take a week off and start from scratch with less frequent sessions as I enjoyed the first few sessions but they seemed to go down hill after that so perhaps for me personally it was too many sessions compounding.

 

If you have issues sleeping and you're wired, this device would be perfect. If fatigue is part of you WD, not sure if this would be so great.

 

bb

 

Hi, sorry it takes me so long to respond. I did have a few days like that also BentBuddha, it seemed like initially I felt alot better immediately, but then I did experience what you are talking about. I found that on the days I had the depression or feeling spaced out, I had good success with doing it twice a day. Then took a break the next day. I usually found that I didn't need it the next day because I was feeling so much better. When I'm depressed, I use it. You may be at the stage where I finally was and I was ready to start weaning off of it once I was sleeping and dreaming again. That is why I mainly bought it, I knew that there were going to be down days, just like there are in life. I also have experienced the intense feelings and tears and I believe they are a way for the body to heal from the inside out, I believe it is all a part of getting normalized again and healthy. Your body is starting to wake up and feel again after being numb for so long. Sometimes we don't know how to feel and what to do about that about those feelings when they surface. I did find those numb days passed and I am feeling so much better. But I am still weaning and doing the BT8 every other day. I think your deep feelings are trying to find light again and heal, but I'm not a doctor. I can only say that I've cried alot in the last month and although initially I felt depressed on some days, looking back, I believe I was trying to heal. It is a journey . . . I appreciate your dream, I feel what you have shared deeply. Tears are good, the suggestion to limit the time to 10 minutes instead of 20 minutes might be helpful too.

 

I checked out a clinic here in town that uses these devices for people going through all types of withdrawal, and actually went in and spoke to them. It was interesting that they use the Alpha Stim and the one they had in the office was broken, goes along with the reviews that I read so I'm glad that I didn't spend my money on that one. Also, they informed me that many of their clients use this device like candy, have it hooked to the hip and use it off and on all day. Now, from what I've read, sessions over 20 minutes creates a tolerance to the device. So I believe less is more from everything I've read, but 2 sessions a day really helped me initially. I found using it at night in the beginning was great, but then found that using it mid day was better on some days. Still trying to figure it all out, but I know that I have been having very good results. My depression seems to be less frequent and I'm still sleeping at least 3 shifts of 2 1/2 hours on bad nights. 2 days ago I was feeling quite depressed, and instead of the full 20 minute session, I used the device for 10 minutes and felt much better. I think the body knows when it needs a kick start and when less is more, but it is just finding that right balance for you. Hope some of this helps BentBuddha! Peace and healing to you my friend. It is a journey.

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Very interesting, ineedsleep. Can you tell us exactly how you are using the Biotuner (with paragraph breaks, please!)?

 

Thanks for your posts, bb. This could be helpful for some people.

 

Probably the least expensive way to purchase ($225 plus shipping) is to buy from Sota http://www.sota.com/bio-tuner.html Get 10% off the BT8 Bio Tuner with discount code CA52002 or CA50025

 

I wish it were less expensive!

 

Sorry for the time it took to post Altostrata . . . as you know, I've been sensitive to the computer and feeling electrical buzzing when I'm too close to a electrical device so I've been limiting my computer time, which i love :(

 

I'll try and start adding more breaks to my posts, I can see that does help with these long winded posts of mine!

 

The Bio Tuner arrived in 3 shipments from Canada. You need a doctors script to get it in the U.S., but nowhere else in the world from what I've read. It seems very well made, as I was concerned given reviews of other devices from other sources and company makes that were written up as flimsy and didn't last long. After listening to the video link I posted above, http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter333/index.htm, after listening to the Audio of Bob Beck, i wanted to go with the original device and it showed there were many improvements to the BT8. It also comes with a one year warranty, so that was another selling point for going with the Bio Tuner. Glad I ordered it directly from Sota, they were wonderful and very informative.

 

This site also has some good information: http://www.braintuner.com/Bob-Beck-Brain-Tuner/

 

There are 6 channels. The first 3 channels are the same as the last 3 but are higher in intensity which is what I liked.

 

NOTE: I have found to keep some of the negative symptoms at bay, like the Dazed feeling . . . It is suggested that you increase your fluid/water intake and that really helped me to ward off these symptoms. Of course, I had to keep reminding myself to drink the water, so when I started to feel these symptoms, I usually could pinpoint that I had not eaten well that day or drank enough fluid.

 

1) On the first day, I used it for 20 minutes midday on Channel 1. Rotating the channels is advised to avoid building a tolerance to the device. I then used it again before bed and fell asleep on Channel 2 and slept for 5 hours. There is a 20 minute timer on it, so the device will shut off after the 20 minute session.

 

I felt very good the next day, with less obsessive thinking over all of my ailments. I was relaxed but no hang over feeling.

 

2) On day two I used it only once in the evening as about midday I started to feel my depression symptoms returning along with some focus on my ailments. I used channel 3, but needed to turn this channel up a bit to feel it. Very relaxing.

 

3) Day 3 through 7, I rotated the channels and some days I would use it once and other days twice. My family continued to notice improvement, even on days when I was saying to myself, is this working. They noticed I had more energy, was accomplishing more and seemed happier. There are days when you cannot help but to still go inward, given everything we have experienced. I found that it was best to not use any medication with this device as it seems to potentiate or increase the effects of the medicine. One night I decided to use Melatonin and when I woke up, I woke up in a panic attack? I have not experienced that since I stopped using the Melatonin and take nothing at night when I use the Bio Tuner at bedtime. On the nights that I do not use the Bio Tuner in the evening, I take Magnesium, 200 mg. I have not needed Melatonin since I started using the Bio Tuner. I also have not needed Calms Forte or any other supplement to drift off to sleep and relax.

 

4) Day 8 I had a really good day and did not use the Bio Tuner. Almost could see the light at the end of the tunnel, I had some JOY feeling which I haven't felt in a long time. Noticed more intense feelings beginning to stir and if something struck me as sad, I would just cry, get it out of me and feel better.

 

5) Day 9 I had some depression and was feeling pretty low and depressed. I used the Bio Tuner and felt a "Dazed" feeling which lasted about half of the day. I used it again in the evening, always rotating the 20 minute sessions, and had a good night but noticed I slept only 2 hour shifts instead of the 3 hour shifts which I had started to enjoy.

 

6) Day 10, I only needed the device once and had a very good day. A good day is a day where my medical symptoms are lessoned, I feel refreshed from the sleep and I am productive. On really good days I FEEL JOY. In 2 weeks, I have experienced 3 days of periods of Joy. Living in the moment and just experiencing life as it comes. One of the things I missed greatly while being on Antidepressants was feeling, whether it be deep intense sad feelings or deep intense happy feelings. There was one day I felt euphoric, like in the days when I was a teenager and everything seemed so intense and real, and it made me smile.

 

7) Day 11-20, I had some off days and tried to figure out if I was using the Bio Tuner too much (twice a day) or if I needed it less. So I started to use it every other day around this time period with good success. Some days I use it twice a day depending on how I feel, and other days only once as my body kind of tells me what it is needing.

 

I am still in the process of weaning myself and yesterday I only used the device once. Today has been such a great day, very productive! I have started having more energy to care for myself better and as of yesterday started juicing! So I am now drinking GREEN JUICE (Spinach, Kale, Cucumber, Carrot, Celery, Apple and Fresh Ginger Root). A month ago, all I could do was sit and stare and pray for deliverance. I had moved in with my parents temporarily and they were making me eat, getting me out of bed, helping me to battle my negative thoughts. I am now 10 months out from a nightmare of Withdrawal symptoms from Anticholinergic Toxicity which prevented me from withdrawing properly from Cymbalta and Strattera and other anticholinergic meds. I only found this site one month ago and never knew that the panic attacks and horrible side effects were related from my cold turkey withdrawal from antidepressants along with the overdose of Anticholinergic meds (Benadryl, phenergan, meclizine, cymbalta, strattera, nortriptyline, neurontin . . .)

 

I am still working with Bio Tuner 8 with good results. 3 days ago, I used the device for 20 minutes early in the day, and 10 minutes midday when I was feeling dazed, anxiety, no energy and feeling some depression. Within an hour I was up and moving and feeling better.

 

I also have found great benefit in using the Linden Method to deal with Anxiety over the last 3 months. http://www.lindenmethod.com/

The man who came up with the Linden Method had to deal with severe Benzodiazepine withdrawal, and it is his journey through finding a natural and healthy way to deal with anxiety, panic attacks, OCD, Agoraphobia . . . and the many ailments that plague us through withdrawal or for some of us, symptoms we have had since childhood (Anxiety). His journey took him through every unimaginable medical and non medical approach to dealing with anxiety without drugs and is endorsed by Cambridge University for Behavioral modification and retraining our brain to think in non anxious ways. He discusses in detail at the end of his book about what we are all experiencing here, Withdrawal syndrome and what he found helped him get through it. I wanted to share this, because it has helped me greatly. GREATLY.

 

Thankful for this website in helping to illuminate information that was never given to me from my medical practitioners. Peace, blessings and healing to all. It is a journey.

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2503-ineedsleep-off-multiple-medications/page__gopid__27184#entry27184

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Wow, that's amazing, INS, considering what bad shape you were in when you joined us.

 

How much sleep are you getting regularly since you've used the BioTuner? What is your sleep pattern?

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Wow, that's amazing, INS, considering what bad shape you were in when you joined us.

 

How much sleep are you getting regularly since you've used the BioTuner? What is your sleep pattern?

 

Just in the last week I've jumped to sleeping 5 hours a night in one long stretch. We'll see if it continues.

 

The most I could ever sleep before with an herbal remedy, (kavinace, melatonin, calms forte . . . ) was 2 hours.

 

After starting to use the BT8, I've been able to sleep 3 hour stretches, wake up, then back to sleep for another 2 1/2-3 hours.

 

Two nights ago I went to 5 hours, and then 3 hours without waking up :D Last night, it was 4 hours and then 3 hours. So thankful to finally be getting some rest so that my body can heal.

 

Taking no herbal supplements, this is all going very well for me with faster drifting off to sleep, less anxiety, more calm, dreams, vivid dreams some nights . . . waking very relaxed and no adrenaline rushes when I see light in the room like before. Still have the windows blacked out, but feeling so much rest. Thankful, very thankful.

 

I feel like this BT8 has gotten me over a hump that my body just couldn't get over by itself. I'll keep you posted if things change or worsen. But I've gone 3 days now without the Bio Tuner, as I've been weaning and I'm still feeling great. It really helped in so many ways - depression, anxiety, feeling calmer, less obsessing over ailments, ailments are diminishing also. I think sleep can have a profound effect on our healing, and if that BT8 helped me finally get to this stage of healing, then it was worth every single cent!

 

Thanks Altostrata!

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It's effects are long lasting. It's been 5nights since I used it last. I have my daughter with me, she's 4. For as many weeks as i can remember, she's been a real test for me. Because I've had a headache for about a year which can easily develop into a migraine, followed by quite a mood swing where not only can I not feel empathy or warmth, but I'm just about ready to take ppls heads off. Very high agitation. The reason why my 4yr old is a test for me isn't because she's a bad child - she's actually very well behaved. It's that she doesn't stop asking questions (as kids do) and wanting interaction. When you have a migraine and in the middle of a WD moodswing, the thing you crave most is to give your head a rest and to shut down for a bit. No chance of that with her around. So far in 24hrs with her I feel no short temper, impatience, or anything like that. I can't fake that or jedi mind trick myself into a placebo effect. A 4yr old will get straight through that.

 

Do I think BioTuner is a cure for SSRI injuries? No. Well, not yet anyway as it's way too early to tell. Do I think it's a great tool to improve quality of life? Definitely, because even if it sends you to a depression from an over use, it's not the same as if you drink alcohol or any other stimulant that triggers a bad 'wave'. It's different. You just have to work out your own personal routine with it as everyone's injury and body is unique to them.

 

If I use this thing only once a week and it stops me sinking into those bad 'waves' or agitated mood swings, then it's worth every cent absolutely. Even if it doesn't cure my brain of this SSRI injury like with memory and all the rest of the symptoms, it's still a huge quality of life change personally, and especially for my little girl. Time will tell what this thing can do with long term use

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Hi BB

 

so glad that the bio tuner is helping you, even if it is not a cure you are having some better quality time with your daughter and this is a plus.

 

I do hope tht it will continue to help you and that you will let us all know how you are doing.

 

good luck

 

poodlebell

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It's effects are long lasting. It's been 5nights since I used it last. I have my daughter with me, she's 4. For as many weeks as i can remember, she's been a real test for me. Because I've had a headache for about a year which can easily develop into a migraine, followed by quite a mood swing where not only can I not feel empathy or warmth, but I'm just about ready to take ppls heads off. Very high agitation. The reason why my 4yr old is a test for me isn't because she's a bad child - she's actually very well behaved. It's that she doesn't stop asking questions (as kids do) and wanting interaction. When you have a migraine and in the middle of a WD moodswing, the thing you crave most is to give your head a rest and to shut down for a bit. No chance of that with her around. So far in 24hrs with her I feel no short temper, impatience, or anything like that. I can't fake that or jedi mind trick myself into a placebo effect. A 4yr old will get straight through that.

 

Do I think BioTuner is a cure for SSRI injuries? No. Well, not yet anyway as it's way too early to tell. Do I think it's a great tool to improve quality of life? Definitely, because even if it sends you to a depression from an over use, it's not the same as if you drink alcohol or any other stimulant that triggers a bad 'wave'. It's different. You just have to work out your own personal routine with it as everyone's injury and body is unique to them.

 

If I use this thing only once a week and it stops me sinking into those bad 'waves' or agitated mood swings, then it's worth every cent absolutely. Even if it doesn't cure my brain of this SSRI injury like with memory and all the rest of the symptoms, it's still a huge quality of life change personally, and especially for my little girl. Time will tell what this thing can do with long term use

 

So happy to hear that there are some positives coming from this for you BentBuddha.

 

I know what you mean, I call it going inward and needing to get away from it all because our systems are so fragile, hot wired, nerves on edge, easy to become agitated . . . but to hear that you are having even the slightest relief is awesome. I would say to hang in there because I have found those bad waves of depression and "daze" have lessened dramatically for me. I can only hope and I can't help but wonder if in your case it will improve also after you have found the right match of use for your system.

 

I am on Day 4 without the device and I am having my 4th day in a row of OVER THE MOON, feeling good, tranquil and healthy. LOTS of energy. Slept 5 hours last night in a row and woke up filled with energy and ready to get up and go. I've accomplished more today in a GOOD MOOD, than I have in 10 months. No longer having those dips in Mood swings you have shared about also. I've noticed too that I've had NO anxiety in the last 4 days, the biggest thing I've noticed also, other than improved sleep, is that I am not having the negative thinking. I'm blown away.

 

I still can't help but wonder if this is going to last given how certain things work for awhile and then stop working as it has for me and others in the past given this condition we have. But this feels different somehow, I feel as though something has opened up inside my brain, a door, a window, a balance of something that has made things kick start into gear and I am almost close to being my old self again before antidepressants. The trembling has also died down, could it be the nerves calming down. I just don't know yet, still working my way through this and watching what happens.

 

I still remember the first time or second time I used it, it felt like circulation flowing through my brain, tingling . . . a chemical release? Something happened very gently and caused a change in sleep, my symptoms and my mood. MY new good MOODS! Oh yes, thankful for that! Asked mom today what she has noticed in the last few days and over the last month since I started using this device, she said "We wanted to help you so badly, we didn't know what to do, you aren't dwelling on the negatives and your health issues" (because they seem minimal almost gone to me), "you appear so much happier" (I AM!), "you are living and becoming more and more productive" (I AM! So thankful).

 

Will continue to post given any new changes or downsides, but so far all seems to be pointing me up and over this nightmare. I know we all have different conditions and ailments which can complicate our healing, yet we are all so similar also to each other, but if this can really help some without side effects, without drugs, drinking or going off the deep end because we all reach that point, then I am thankful to be sharing from my current experience, something positive, and hope it can help others too.

 

Keeping you in my thoughts BentBuddha, keep us posted, hope things continue to improve for you too even if it is slow, and that the negatives become less and the positives become greater for you. It is a journey. Prayers for Peace and Joy to you. Keep hanging in there.

 

Retired USAF Nurse injured in 1998, neck injury.

In my 10th month of Antidepressant Withdrawl Syndrome and Anticholinergic Toxicity Syndrome

Started on Zoloft after the neck injury in the USAF, taken for 8 years 50-200mg

Cymbalta (Switched from Zoloft) taken 4 years and Straterra 2 years (taken together) up until toxicity occurred

Nortriptyline 50 mg, last 2 years prior to toxicity

Neurontin, last 3 months prior to toxicity

Ativan 1 month prior to Anticholinergic Toxicity

Round the clock Phernergan 100mg and Benadryl 25mg every 6 hours for 3 days to break migraine cycle? 11 months ago. Hospitalized after 2 weeks for severe anticholinergic toxicity

Since then . . . could not restart meds, antidepressants and ADD med as they were all anticholinergics

Unable to sleep for 10 months.

Placed on Ambien 4 months ago, after 3 weeks I became tolerant then had rebound insomnia which messed me up worse.

Have periodically taken Kavinace for sleep, but after 1 month of use, will build a tolerance and then I have to stop for a month before it works again.

Have tried each item individually on different nights. . . which will work temporarily then stop working after a week or a few days . . . Bachs Rescue Remedy, Hylands Calms Forte, Warm milk, Concentrated Chamomile tea, Valerian, 200 mg Magnesium, L-Tryptophan, and an occasional 3.75 mg Lortab (1/2 Lortab) to take edge off of neck pain from USAF injury.

Currently off all Medication except for .05 mg Estrogen, .088mg Synthroid and Ginger for GI upset and Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD)

Stopped all acidic foods, no preservatives (to the best of my ability), no caffeine, no alcohol. I've lost 25 pounds in 10 months.

Started using Bio Tuner 8 from Sota, (BT8) one month ago

FINALLY SLEEPING and lessening withdrawal symptoms! Big Smiles!

Much love to all who have gone before me in this long and painful journey and to those just beginning their journey.

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