meistersinger

Alpha-Stim, Fisher Wallace Sota Biotuner, PoNS, and similar devices

310 posts in this topic

If anyone is selling one of these in Australia, let me know,  I think I would go with the bio tuner.          T

 

Article on the Aussie-BC science show, Catalyst.

 

Any of you who are a tech genius - can you extract the last article (I find the first one disturbing, "facial recognition of depression", and the second one, well, less disturbing but still).  The third article addresses TCMS and tDCS - even talking about "brain enhancement" on the tDCS (jury still out).

 

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/catalyst/SC1402H012S00

 

Enjoy!

This video is no longer available to view.                                 So what is a TCMS       and a tDCS?          I followed the rest, the Alph Stim, the Fisher Wallace and the sota biotuner...............     I realise now that a TENS machine, is for muscle pain,         but   throwing in TCMS and tDCS,   well that has thrown me, what are they???????

Thanks for all the input Fresh and everyone.......                  

Thanks for everyone for letting me know if it helped/didnt help you.......                       

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I have purchased one from Australian destributor, SOTA BIO TUNER               ...... I got a 10% discount, and urgent mail was $15 I think.............I need to keep hope, so I need to try something new...........so cost was about $350 delivered, hope to get it delivered end of next week...............         ....... I will hang on long enough to give this new Sota bio tuner a good trial............................. (or maybe god will give me a window from my horrific suffering?)

 

As for Cymbalta withdrawal, did the tDCS work for you?  there is one for sale on ebay (Australia ebay) present bid is $80.00.  I might buy it if cheap enough, I could send it to a fellow sufferer,       So it meands Direct Current instead of Alternating Current.................... did it WORK FOR YOU????  I read thru all the thread, but none of your links still work, so all your experiences with the tDCS are not available, YOUR BLOG IS NOT AVAILABLE,............can you not just write on this thread,   did it work for you??????               

 

Also on ebay an Alpha Stim, way overpriced, at about $1,000    .......... no warranty, this is for physical pain, and also emotional pain, but didnt work for seller for the physical pain  (?? to me, the two things are different. I dont have physical pain, mine is all depression,  AD withdrawals).         

 

I am financially poor, due to the ADs destroying my life, I am on DSP. Anyway, one thing I read, was about the Fisher Wallace machine, and the man that got it passed by FDA, yep, was selling and part owner of the Fisher Wallace thing..................................        corruption is sickening.  

 

                 

So for me I am happy to try one that seems to have a good report, reading through all this thread, the one that has 12 months warranty, local distributor.              Not one that has got passed by FDA, by a corrupt system, that the man who passed it thru FDA, is an owner of Fisher Wallace.

 

rip Blu we miss you!

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Got my BT8 yesterday and tried it twice, it was not a good experience.   Last night I used it for 10 minutes, it made me feel kinda weird and spacy, the felt slightly depressed (I had not felt depressed in a while).  Slept well last night, woke up at 5 am and decided to give it a full 20 minutes.  This is when the fun really began.  While it was on, I felt agitated…quite agitated.  I felted like I wanted to take it off and throw it across the room, but I stuck with it.  After 20 minutes it stopped and I immediately felt extremely sedated, like I had taken about 20 Benadryl tablets.  After about 5 minutes that started to pass and I felt this really dark heavy/depressed feeling come across me, very similar to what I experienced after Buspro would leave my system.  After about ½ hour of this, I started to get agitated again, was tossing and turning, and felt very uncomfortable.  Finally, after about an hour and a half I started to feel a bit like myself again, but even 4 hours later I still feel out of sorts, “buzzy”, sedated, and my anxiety is really elevated where I haven’t had daytime anxiety in quite some time.  It basically feels like when I took Buspro and had an adverse reaction to it, what it feels like is a bunch of dopamine or serotonin got stimulated.

 

So I can say that it really appears that the thing does stimulate neurotransmitter production, but in my case it is not a good thing.   It appears as though I am the king of adverse reactions…I have to not take ANYTHING or DO anything to my central nervous system until things start to heal.  It really appears as though my system has been “fried” and needs to recover.

 

Really bummed that it did not work for me, but looks like it works for others that haven’t been on 30 meds in the last 15 months.  If anyone is interested it mine I’ll gladly part with it and ship it out…not sure if that is allowed on this site, if not forget I mentioned it as I don’t want to break any rules J

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Ang writes:  

 

 

 throwing in TCMS and tDCS,   well that has thrown me, what are they???????

 

Yeah, on tDCS you put a wet gooey pad over a certain area of your brain and turn the current on.  You can FEEL the current, and it can knock out speech, memory, put you in a trance.  Because a millimetre makes a difference on the brain, I am skeptical of this one - "approximate placement" of the pads can make a huge difference.

 

But CW is the tDCS experienced one here.  Sorry the Catalyst program went away, I'll see if I can find it again.

 

Yeah:  Try this, it will explain it much better than I ever could:  http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4322228.htm  

 

Sorry for posting the iview one - I know they are temporary but I was so excited I felt I had to put it up right away!

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JanCarol   thankyou so much,  I watched the episode, and I actually think I have seen it before, but of course, after reading through this thread twice, it makes so much more sense now.  

 

I really think it will be worth a try for me, but I will begin slowly, and cautiously.

 

Thankyou everyone!

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Did anyone have brain zaps or an "electric head" who tried one of these machines? I'm desperate to find something that helps.

Hi Laura, the first day I used it,   that night as I fell asleep, I had one jolt, right side,  then I had the weird vision of a tuning fork, and I could hear this tuning fork in my left ear.    I suppose that is what tinnitus feels like, but it was pleasant, and went quickly.........               Last night, none of that, just a vivid dream.....   

So so far,  I can not say I have had any bad effects.

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Thanks for info Jan Carol                    I would very much like more information on the tDCS.  All the links to anything CW wrote on his blog page, are all gone.   So there is no information I can find.  Can anyone recall what was written elsewhere about the tDCS from any users experiences with it?

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Thanks for info Jan Carol                    I would very much like more information on the tDCS.  All the links to anything CW wrote on his blog page, are all gone.   So there is no information I can find.  Can anyone recall what was written elsewhere about the tDCS from any users experiences with it?

Are you talking about CW from here who used it?  Easy to find her in members... under the full name 

cymbaltawithdrawal5600

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CW was very disappointed with the tDCS , no positive result after a short trial , and she ditched the

experiment.

Ang , your best bet is to go carefully through this thread.

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I know this topic is a little older but JanCarol suggested I read it as I am using an Alpha-Stim device. 

 

When I originally used it, for the first couple of days, (May 20) my anxiety levels decreased but then it started interacting with my medications and caused my buproprion to give me akathisia. That was over Memorial Day weekend of course so I couldn't get the pdoc for any help. I did reduce my buproprion by half and that didn't help. When I finally got to the pdoc he gave me Proponalol, the clonazepam wasn't helping much, and that got rid of the akathisia but gave me depression right away so he told me to CT off of the buproprion. Not usually a problem for most people. Alas it was for me and I am struggling with exptreme anxiety, seems to go with the cortisol levels. Anyway, the Alpha-Stim has helped me with the depression so far. It hasn't done a lot for the neuro anxiety but I'm not sure how quickly it would work on that sort of thing anyway.

 

I called the Alpha-Stim group that I purchased my unit from and the Dr there said he works with an addictionologist who uses the Alpha-Stim with his withdrawal patients. He told me to use it right away in the morning and then as often as needed througout the day. I'm a little leary of using it that much, plus it eats the batteries. I've been using it in the morning and in the evening. It still seems to help with the depression if I'm feeling any of that in the eveing. Today not so much but that is probably hormonal and I don't know how much of an effect it has on that, or if it will be cumulative. I have only been using it for a month and they said especially for withdrawal I should try it for a least two months.

 

As a side note, my daughter suffers with insomnia and severe chronic migraines. She started using the device a couple of weeks ago and her sleep is much improved and her migraines have decreased in severity. Again it is cummulative so we are hopeful that she will get even better. 

 

I know it doesn't work for everyone but I wanted to share my experience with it. 

 

Healing and peace to us all.

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I thought I would drop by and offer an update on my use of the Alpha-Stim. 

 

I am still using it twice daily. It is helping both with depression, not as much for hormone induced depression, and with my anxiety. It doesn't get rid of the anxiety but it helps to make it less. Even when I am tapering and end up having horrible w/d sxs it helps a little with the anxiety. I've been using it for six months now. I forgot to use it once and my anxiety was way up the next day. 

 

My daughter also continues to use it and though her migraines are not gone when she does have them they tend not to be as severe and they don't last as long. She won't go a day without using it and wants to purchase one for herself. 

 

Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in these devices.

 

Hugs and healing.

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This is an ad that popped up on my Facebook.  Anyone know about this and if it works?  

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I am currently reading about it... very curious! I dont know much but i plan to research.

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Hello, I know it has been a while since anyone posted to this topic, but I was just wondering . . . for the few people who seem to have had adverse reactions to these devices (anxiety, restlessness, agitation, etc.), how long after stopping the device did it take for your symptoms to go away? I had an adverse reaction to one of these devices, too, after using it for about a week. I feel it threw me back very significantly into withdrawal; I am having very strong symptoms I have not had in many, many months. 

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Has anybody tried this? I've tried everything in the book but I really don't want to spend $500 on something if it doesn't give a chance for some relief. Also I've done ECT on 2 separate occasions with no effect so I'm wondering if this will be a waste.

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You'd have to skim the thread.  A post a few up from yours indicates it worked well for the person, but there seems to be plenty of the opposite too. 

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On 6/19/2017 at 0:06 AM, Nitt1978 said:

Has anybody tried this? I've tried everything in the book but I really don't want to spend $500 on something if it doesn't give a chance for some relief. Also I've done ECT on 2 separate occasions with no effect so I'm wondering if this will be a waste.

 

Hi Nitt, I used one of these devices twice a day for a little over a week or so 2 months ago. It spiraled me backwards into withdrawal even worse than I was in the very beginning, 1 year ago. I am still suffering very badly from this device. I am glad that others seem to have a positive experience, but I just want to share my experience, too, so people know that these devices can cause very serious reactions. When I say serious, I mean I have not experienced suffering even close to this bad in the entire year I've been in withdrawal, and I have had some pretty rough waves before this. I hope your experience will be much better than mine if you choose to use it.

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Posted (edited)

I saw the Fisher device on my fb feed yesterday. Having suffered severely for decades w Bipolar

and treatment resistant wicked depression. Life includes multiple meds which are constantly changing.

 

I immediately became excited. But, because of my guinea pig life, my distrust kicked in so I have spent

the entire day and will continue,investigating these folks, the technology as well as anything related. While I have not reached a decision yet, I am leaning towards heck no.

 

Many of the claims made by Fisher are dubious and some information provided I have already

found to be inaccurate. I called the FDA and had a quick conv. I need to call back Monday to

speak to the horses mouth regarding their so-called "FDA cleared" statement. Not the same as FDA

approved.  I am in need of Medicare assistance with this extremely expensive device and as far as I

can see, it is not approved. What "maladies" they are approved for is also in question. I will call back

again on Monday.

 

As of right now, I am neither accusing nor convicting Fisher of anything. There are so many of us who are

desperate for relief that I think it is vitally important that I know what I'm getting into. They make a lot

of claims to desperate people.

 

Finally, my post is simply for sharing purposes. This is my story. I am in no way encouraging or discouraging anyone from pursuing an alternative treatment. 

Edited by scallywag
add extra lines after paragraphs for readability

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Posted (edited)

Lisa, thank you for creating an account and posting what you discovered when you talked with the FDA about the Fisher Wallace device. That is excellent information -- that the FDA may not NOT approved have cleared it.

 

Please let us know what you find out from "the horse's mouth" after you speak with them.

 

Please consider starting an introduction topic for yourself so that we can get to know you better.

Link to start a new topic for yourself in the Introductions and updates forum

Edited by scallywag

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With regard to the Fisher - Wallace Stimulator

 

I've spent a ton of time trying to research this company and I will share the information I have obtained.

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

 

Fisher-Wallace is based in NYC. I confirmed their business license for NY State. They came into being in

2007/2008. Their license is active and in good standing.  The BBB has no negative claims for them.

Fisherwallace.com and Fisher Wallace laboratories on fb.

 

The Fisher-Wallace Stimulator is tACS aka CES technology. It is not to be confused with tDCS. 

The technology is decades old (FDA sanctioned 1972) but was not officially recognized in terms of

approving its use by the FDA until 1990. At this time, a regulatory review was not done but the technology

was grandfathered in.

 

Fast forward to today.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is considered a MEDICAL DEVICE by the FDA. "FDA cleared" is used for medical

devices. "FDA approved" is issued for any/all drugs. The "cleared" designation for this device is correct but

for specific conditions. It can be used "off label" and in all cases, a Physician Rx is required.

 

Fisher claims to have clearance for insomnia, depression and anxiety. Pain is also mentioned but in an ambiguous

way. Here's where it gets a bit confusing...

Each "cleared" indication must have a separate FDA clearance #. All #'s begin with a K and will have 6 #'s after it.

 

PAIN - FDA says Fisher is cleared. 510K # is K896226     Fisher claims they are not cleared for pain but that "it can

be used on the body for pain". Fisher indicated that this clearance # is for Bipolar II.

 

Depression, anxiety, insomnia - There are no FDA cleared 510K #'s specific to these conditions. Fisher has 3 other

510K #'s in the FDA database. K894515/cranial stimulator, K902676/electromode-depth and K903654/cranial stimulator.

It is impossible to know if these 510K #'s are specific to depression, anxiety or insomnia but the general approval looks

in the ballpark.

 

Substance abuse - The Fisher unit is being used in a pilot program and has no FDA applications or clearance.

 

Per the FDA, there is what is called "Practice of Medicine". Allows for off label use at the discretion of the prescribing

Physician. This may explain the confusion I received from Fisher and what is posted throughout their fb site.

 

I found the official Fisher site to be lacking and confusing. They really just want to get you on the phone to grab your

personal information. They will certainly allow for questions but the more details you ask for, the less helpful they seem to be.

 

I had much better luck with them on fb. I had no intention of sharing personal information with them so I used the messenger 

option for questions. They were fairly prompt with responses.  Going through and reading absolutely everything proved to be

informative. I read all posts, replies and links. Quite a bit of the info was posted last year but there has been recent activity.

 

I am not a scientist or physician. I attempted to read the research studies they provided and looked for others. I did the best I

could but I was unable to read every single one. I spoke to a researcher friend of mine and she pointed out a few things with

regard to protocol, sample size, etc... that seemed inadequate/questionable to her.  What I can say is the Beth-Israel research

they reference and are so proud of consisted of only 16 people and it appears to have been financed by Fisher themselves.

 

I was not able to find efficacy information for any of the conditions they claim to treat. They do not make claims of

effectiveness except to say "read the feedback and testimonials". Almost all comments on fb were of a positive nature.

I tend not to trust so I wonder if they filter out any negative feedback.  

 

I googled the heck out of this device and did find some blogs that seemed more honest. Mixed reviews. 

I never found in my search, any information relating to major side effects. Minor stuff. Don't quote me on

this.  While there will be folks who get into this themselves, it has been recommended that anyone using this

device spend time with their Dr so that this treatment can be coordinated with your current meds.

 

Price: $699.00 plus between $19-$59 for shipping. Price dependent on how quickly you want it.  Must have a valid Rx and

apparently they will take one from just about anyone related to the healthcare field.

Probable availability in Canada and elsewhere. I saw one post indicating it was available OTC in Europe.

Insurance: this device may or may not be covered by Medicare, Medicaid, VA/TriCare, private insurance.  You need to call

your provider to confirm. Fisher indicated a price of $599 for those on Medicare, Medicaid, VA/Tricare or first responders. It

was an old post so you need to verify.

NOTE: I am on Medicare and called them directly. They indicated to me that this device is not covered. Not sure I believe them

so I would suggest having your Dr office make the call. 

 

Returns: 30 day return period. You pay shipping back to them in addition to a 10% restocking fee.

If you don't like, or want, the device after that time... I understand that there are Sellers on eBay and possibly Craig's List.

Due to the very high price of this unit, I've seen some posts where folks have bought used and decided from there.

 

Well, this is everything I was able to find out. I'm sure there's more but my head is about to explode.

 

I am in no position to encourage or discourage anyone with regard to this device. I have personally decided not to make a purchase

and will continue looking for alternative devices or that elusive magic wand.

 

I hope that the info I have shared will prove to be somewhat helpful.

 

I wish you all good luck with your decision and would love to hear from anyone who has purchased this device. Honest feedback is

always a good thing.

 

Best to you all.

 

 

 

 

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Lisa, thank you for sharing the details of your thorough investigation. I will add a link to your post on the first page of this topic so that people can find your detailed review quickly.

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