Lexy: tapering off Effexor

[Newbeginning]

Lexy,

 

I apologize if youi've explained this before. Your case seems complex to me. Could you remind me why you need to take hormones to stop your cycle? Is it possible your body does not get along with them? Have you tried bio-identical hormones instead?

 

I understand your anxiety, but frankly, if it is a hormonal issue, at least there is a lot more knowledge about that than about withdrawal, and natural alternatives that have less side effects. Yes, they may iterfere with withdrawal, but not necessarily in a bad way. If the withdrawal gets worse for many of us during PMS, then it's logical that balancing our hormones may help alleviate some of the symptoms.

 

Also, you're already taking (and have taken in the past) other meds/supplements while going through withdrawal and it didn't always make things worse (maybe not much better, but not worse either). I know some did make it worse, but not all of them.

 

So try to stay calm and hope for the best. It is hard but it can make a difference on your overall well-being.

 

I'll keep following up with your updates.

[Lexy]

Update

Had blood tests taken last week and everything is normal, just a little dehydrated. That could be from all the vomitting I had on the naltrexone.

Currently at 18.65mg. Effexor and 2.75mg brintellix

Still having lightheadeness, fatigue, muscle and joint pain. Past few days I have been having a sore throat with low grade fever.

All symptoms become worse in the evening. Mood swings(crying spells, depressed mood) are lower.

I have been slow micro tapering since January 2013, shouldn't I be in a better place by now?

[Altostrata]

It sounds to me like you're sick, you have a virus or something.

[Newbeginning]

It sounds to me like you're sick, you have a virus or something.

 

I've thought all along there might be some other undrelying issue in her case. Not because withdrawal can't cause all the gamut of symptoms she has, but because she's stabilized her dosage for a long time and is still very unstable in her symptoms.

 

That said, I think microtapering is not a panacea either. Just because you're cutting less than 10%, it doesn't mean you don't need to give your brain time to adapt to that microchange. Perhaps the two week taper schedule is not working and she should give herself a month? I know in my case withdrawal reactions may not show for 3 weeks. If I tapered every 2 weekls because I didn't notice symptoms for 2 weeks after I cut, I would be aggravating the withdrawal reaction by cutting more before my brain has had enough time to stabilize. Just a thought.

 

I sure hope you will get some stability soon Lexy!

[Lexy]

I am taking both effexor brand name XR and venlafaxine ir. I do frequent dosing of both. I am at the point where I feel stuck on which to taper off first.

I am also on 3 mg brintellix which was prescribed to help with wds. Brintellix has a half life of 66 hours vs effexor 5-6 hours.

[Lexy]

Whih should be tapered off first effexor XR or generic venlafaxine immediate release ?

[Altostrata]

Lexy, I moved your posts here.

 

If I recall, you are on a complicated dosing schedule that's unlikely to apply to anyone else. Please put your updates in this topic.

 

How are you taking Effexor and Effexor XR now? Times and dosages, please.

[Lexy]

You are right about my complicated dosing plan I put myself in. :/

Currently on

9:00am -Effexor XR 4.92mg beads

3:00pm - 3mg brintellix / 4mg venlafaxine immediate release tablet

9:00pm - Effexor XR 2.32mg / 4.25mg venlafaxine immediate

 

I keep going around in circles trying to figure the best plan for the rest of my taper.

Not sure if I should taper off the immediate before the XR. I believe the immediate produces somewhat lesser wds symptoms when I decrease than the xr. However if need be would I be able to incorporate liquid after stopping the immediate without much risk of more wds?

Also should I combine the 2 immediate release doses into 1?

I greatly appreciate your advice.

[Altostrata]

As you know, I've never been able to understand your strategy.

 

If I were you, I'd reduce the afternoon immediate-release Effexor, using a liquid.

 

What is the total daily dosage of Effexor in the beads you're weighing? You need to express that in the dosage milligrams, not in the weight milligrams.

[Lexy]

Total daily dosage (NOT by weight) of both is 15.50milligrams

7.25mg of XR and 8.25 of immediate.

I had same thoughts on reducing immediate release however when I'm left with the XR would it be possible to go back tablets IR to reduce by liquid?

 

Another approach that I had in mind was combining the afternoon immediate with the evening immediate dose (8.25). I haven't done this as I wanted your advice before taking another mishap re my tapering.

I'm weary if I make any changes regarding dosage changes that It will trigger more sxs or create sleep problems as sleep is all I have left.

[Altostrata]

As you're taking a total of 15.50mg Effexor per day, you might reduce by 1.50mg (10%).

 

You're only going to eliminate the afternoon immediate-release Effexor dosage at first. You can decide later what you want to taper next.

 

I have no idea what would happen if you moved your Effexor dosing around again. I don't understand why you've scheduled it as you have. I think I've commented on this before, perhaps a few times. Your guess is as good as mine as far as combining doses.

[flong]

Wow, you've really come down in dose since the last time I checked. Good for you! I am almost off it altogether. The final time release bead, once a day, from about 430 a day originally. I've been on it since 2001. If I can do it, anybody can. Saying that, I am SUFFERING. But the next step is to take one bead every other day and hope that is slow enough.

Again, congrats, you've obviously been doing something right. More than anything I hope you're feeling okay...because what's more important than that?

[Lexy]

Thanks Flong for checking in, so glad to hear you are are on one itty bitty bead. Of course that one bead can create havoc, don't I know. I am reducing by one bead every 10 days now and still SUFFERING as you said. I believe mamas P thread mentions how she got off her last four beads....she was taking 4 of the larger size beads, when it was time to taper she would turn in a large one for a smaller one. Maybe you can turn in your bead for a smaller one to take every day rather than every other day.

Just be super cautious now that you are at the end. Congratulations...you are my inspiration. You never gave up on me even when you were feeling like crap as well. Thanks for being a FRIEND.

[Altostrata]

Lexy, if you're getting withdrawal symptoms, STOP reducing by 1 bead every 10 days. Let your nervous system settle down.

 

Then figure out how to convert one of your immediate-release Effexor doses to a liquid and reduce more gradually with that.

[KarenB]

Hello Lexy,

 

Just wanted to pop in here and see how you're going - such a long haul you've been on.  You are so close now, it's really inspiring to see.

 

Hugs,
KarenB

[Newbeginning]

Is 3 beads a month still 10% cut per month? With effexor, you usually will notice withdrawal within 10 days, but given how sensitive you are, cutting every 10 days would seem like a lot of changes. Alto's suggestion that you try cuts once per month instead seems like a good idea.

 

Or did you try that already?

[Lexy]

Thanks all

Alto- thank you I will go ahead and eliminate afternoon ir.

Karen B - you seem to be as sensitive as I am. Glad to see you do holds over time.

Yes I've been reducing by about 6-7% every month. I'm taking it slower over the holidays.

New beginning- do you mean doing one 10% cut a month? I do micro tapering....I can't handle a decrease all at once. You are doing one bead per month and also decreasing on Prozac per you sig, at the same time. How is that going for you?

[flong]

I tried the 10% cut once a month too. In theory it works. But it was way too hard.

Also I'm sure you've noticed that cutting every 10 days is going to be really hard. I'm not sure if you're the same, but there seems to be a 15+ day cycle. I drop and then I'm not really feeling right for about a month. At least at this dose. It's hard to say what's going to work best, but you've really been doing well reducing it, so if you're comfortable doing it at this speed I have your back. Just be careful! You know more than anyone what this stuff can do if you're not really careful.

Next drop is to zero for me. And I will definitely be taking smaller and smaller beads until I do so as per your advice. Makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[Lexy]

I am considering converting part of immediate release venlafaxine to liquid. I take two doses of IR venlafaxine one at 3pm and one at 10pm. Should I convert the afternoon or pm dose to liquid? I have read many cant take the liquid, if so will I notice a difference immediately?

[Altostrata]

Lexy, are you still taking that complicated schedule of venlafaxine XR and IR? Please update your signature.

 

As you know, I've never been able to understand your strategy.

 

If I were you, I'd reduce the afternoon immediate-release Effexor, using a liquid.

 

What is the total daily dosage of Effexor in the beads you're weighing? You need to express that in the dosage milligrams, not in the weight milligrams.

[Lexy]

Happy new year to all. I hope this year brings more healing to all of us.

 

Yes I'm still on the complicated XR and IR tapering along with brinttellix.

My dosage schedule (NOT in weight) are:

 

Morning - 5 mg XR effexor

Afternoon 3mg brintellix and about 2.75mg IR venlafaxine

Night 2mg XR effexor and 4.5mg IR venlafaxine

 

I am counting beads and also weighing them to be as accurate as possible; also weighing the tablets IR but they are getting so tiny to weigh and cut off.

Besides converting one IR venlafaxine to liquid can I convert all to XR effexor? Converting to liquid might be to stimulating for me even at a partial dose.

 

For two weeks I was having nightmares similar to ones I had before being diagnosed with PTSD. I had switched the IR doses around to afternoon 4.75mg and the night dose to 2.75mg. Not sure if this switch had anything to do with it however I switched it back as these nightmares bring me more anxiety through out the day. Also I started taking magnesium and tart cherry before bed and nightmares have seemed to ease off.

[flong]

All I can tell you is what's worked for me. Counting the XR beads. I never weighed them. Not even at the end with 1 bead a day...I just try to take beads of a similar size and it seems to work just fine for me.

Don't forget though, there was a time months back that you tried switching the whole thing to XR and it didn't seem to work for you. We're all different, so different things are going to work. Please just be careful ok?

[Lexy]

I have been hurting for past couple days and today on Saturday it got worse. I have sharp pains in my chest and it hurts to breathe or lie flat down or on my left side. So I went to the emergency room to see what was going on and the doctor said it was costochondritis, and that is the worst thing you can ever have. I have never hurt so bad in my chest with really sharp pains. He said it could be due to coughing or stress.

Has anyone had thus during wds?

Ps I do cough when I have the medical cannabis but it's only thing that helps me get out of a

Depression wave.

[Altostrata]

Sounds like you going to have to stop smoking.

[Lexy]

I've been tapering 4 years this October. Could the 50% cut still be affecting me? I've never been well and very few windows I can count on one hand.

[nick1990]

From what i have gathered so far in this journey Lexy is this - (Please correct me anyone if you believe i am incorrect)

Once you have destabilised your system from too big a drop OR too many drops too close together - then you have to hold either at your current dose or reinstate. Either way you choose - you then need to give your body SIGNIFICANT time to repair your destabilsed CNS. We really need to just sit and wait until we begin to feel better. I feel that everyone wants to rush this - i certainly did and still do but i cannot. No one should rush it. Your 50% drop is massive. And to have only waited 4 or so months to continue your taper, i think is where your problem lies. After such a big drop and fully destabilising your CNS and having severe WD's i dont think a 4 month hold was long enough .. I think to be succesful and taper these meds without WD symptoms or with minimal WD symptoms you need to be in a stable place to begin with.  This is why people who start their taper journey slowly and continue slowly and steadily are the people who have a far smoother journey, as apposed to someone who has destabilised their CNS in the first place. Essentially you have not given your CNS time to recover and you keep further rocking it by reducing your dose. Even a TINY drop will rock a destabilised CNS. Im not going to make a suggestion as to your best move from here , but i think someone else with more knowledge could do so. All i can say is letting your CNS recover and then re-grow its foundations is what needs to happen before you drop further. Then the remainder could be a walk in the park. 

[Lexy]

In need of help

I'm having high anxiety/paranoia/fear since Saturday.

I've been microtapering every month up to 5%. I vomited Saturday after taking my morning dose of effexor 4mgs.

Took a few beads after and had my pills set for one less bead on Monday. Took the dose on Monday called my doctor in the evening he said to go up to previous dose. I adjusted my dose for the rest of week. However it's not alleviated my symptoms. I had been having anxiety once in a while, my main symptoms had been low grade depression/low fevers/zaps/body aches.

I've been decreasing slowly why is this happening??what can I do ?

[ChessieCat]

It will be helpful if you could post your current dosing schedule please like you did in Post #345.  Thank you.

[Lexy]

9:30 am Effexor Xr 4mgs

9:30pm Effexor XR 1mg plus 4mgs venlafaxine immediate with 2.75 mg trintellix

[ChessieCat]

Are you experiencing any additional or extraordinary external stressors?  Does the lead up to Christmas stress you?  I've found in the last few days that the thought of Christmas is causing me a bit of stress.  Just some things to consider.  Any changes in your diet recently?  Have you been sick?  Time of the month?  Anyone holding parties in your area?  Christmas shopping, additional travel?

[Lexy]

I love Christmas including travel, shopping family etc

I had been thinking of my future. I don't know how to get back to life. I've been sick for past 4 years...for my age that's feels like a long time. I constantly think about this. It's not new.

Now I'm having ruminating thoughts, my mind doesnt rest. So anxious never felt like this in my life.

I had just seen my dr on Nov 15. He said I was in the right road to recovery from withdrawal syndrome. I'm lucky I have a doctor thT understands and believes in wds. He gave me renewed hope but now this...

[ChessieCat]

"I'm having high anxiety/paranoia/fear since Saturday.
I've been microtapering every month up to 5%. I vomited Saturday after taking my morning dose of effexor 4mgs."

 

Did the anxiety etc start after you vomited?

[ChessieCat]

My thinking is that you may have had a tummy bug or eaten something which didn't agree with you resulting in you vomiting and it has upset your CNS a bit.

[Newbeginning]

Hi Lexy,

 

I'm in a similar situation. Did a 5% cut of Effexor 50 days ago and anxiety has not resolved yet. I try a small updose, but it made me worse, so I went back down after 4 days. In my case I suspect I cut too soon, since I was not 100% stable when I did.

 

I understand you were stable before you cut though. It's possible that you've reached a dose where you'll have to slow down and this is why you're having anxiety. Your body may not be tolerating the same taper. If I was you, I'd do longer holds or cut less once you stabilize from this.

 

I'm trying L-theanine for anxiety. Started 12 days ago. Last 2 days I seem to be a tiny bit better. If it keeps helping, I'll let you know. Maybe you can try it too? I have not checked the topic on that here. I will soon.

 

Anxiety is horrible. I really feel for you. It immobilizes me to where I'm hungry but can't eat because preparing even a sandwich "scares" me. It wakes me up in the morning. I get constant horrible thoughts about losing everything, people I love dying, and I'm filled with grief for like 10 hours every day non-stop. Crying spells and suicidal thoughts. After months of this, I'm very depressed and hopeless.

 

Are you still in school? I totally understand worrying about your future. I've been sick since 2013 too. Somehow I managed to stay in school but now that I'm 70% done I'm scared to death I might be forced to give it up because I'm very dysfunctional.

 

I know you can't feel this now, but being so young is a big advantage. You have many more years of youth to live healthy.

 

I'm praying both of us get some relief and hope soon. Hugs

[Lexy]

Hi Newbeginning

I've never been stable since starting Effexor. Never helped.

I've have been trying to taper for 4 years.

Anxiety, depression, malaise, headaches, dizziness, queasiness, nausea, etc are a norm for me.

Everyday it's one thing or another. I'm trying to do a micro taper, however I feel every decrease.

My doctor prescribed brintellix to help since it has a longer half life.

 

I don't think it's helped me much, just gave me more side effects.

My dr did suggest inositol, specifically the Jarrow brand for anxiety. It's in a powder form. I haven't started takinf it yet. I just recently changed my diet ( was basically eating junk food or Confort food) also doc recommended to stop all caffeine including decaf coffee. I was drinking almost 2 liters of black or green tea/day. He had me taper off the tea and write down my daily symptoms. I'll start the inositol after I give my diet a few more weeks to see if I feel any better.

I truly believe we will get over this how I don't know....one day at a time.

[Newbeginning]

Hi Lexy,

 

When I have withdrawal anxiety, both sugar and caffeine make it worse. I notice it the day after. It's worth trying a day of no sugar and another day of no caffeine and seeing how you feel the same day and the day after.

 

Let me know how Inositol works. I hope it's helpful.

 

Hugs