Pokeshaw: tapering off Lexapro

[scallywag]

Ah, a Maritimer. I did occasional training assignments with folks in Fredericton. Strangely they always came up in February.

[Pokeshaw]

Ah, a Maritimer. I did occasional training assignments with folks in Fredericton. Strangely they always came up in February.

Ah...yes, Feb in NB can be brutal!

 

Poke

[Pokeshaw]

17 days out from root canal that sent me into the worst wave since my original w/d in 2011.  I had a feeling it would activate symptoms but I did not expect it to be that bad.  .

 

Today was a tiny bit better. I am hoping for more improvement as the days go on.

 

Poke

[LexAnger]

Thank God you are seeing light from this bad hit!

I always have this image of the wrecked brain electric system of mine, with millions thin wires just touching (instead of screwed) the mounting point hanging there on and off shaking. A mouth blow air would shake the whole structure and knock thousands of them off position and the whole system in chaos.

 

Root. Canal is like a spam on the system

 

Once more, amazed by the healing/repairing ability of the brain!!!

 

Take care Poke, you have been a great example for me in the past many years and you are so close to the finish line. The permenant stabilization will happen after that point then no more worries about the storms.

[Pokeshaw]

Thank God you are seeing light from this bad hit!

I always have this image of the wrecked brain electric system of mine, with millions thin wires just touching (instead of screwed) the mounting point hanging there on and off shaking. A mouth blow air would shake the whole structure and knock thousands of them off position and the whole system in chaos.

 

Root. Canal is like a spam on the system

 

Once more, amazed by the healing/repairing ability of the brain!!!

 

Take care Poke, you have been a great example for me in the past many years and you are so close to the finish line. The permenant stabilization will happen after that point then no more worries about the storms.

Thank you Lex -

 

Always great to hear from you. And you describe the situation very well!

 

Yes, a root canal and taking Advil for 2 days really tipped me over the edge. Digestive system (which for me was hit hard by w/d) is still not right. I know it is related but feel I should check it with a doc in case I have some kind of bug. Have an appt scheduled for next week.

I just hate the idea of going to docs. Had my fill back in 2011-12 with a gazillion tests.

Will try and keep it simple.

 

best,

 

Poke

[bubble]

Just to say hi Poke. As always I'm keeping an eye on you (and learning from your experience-hope I don't have to go through a root canal thing but if it happens I'll know what it is).

 

Glad to hear you are better and good luck with the tests.

[Pokeshaw]

Just to say hi Poke. As always I'm keeping an eye on you (and learning from your experience-hope I don't have to go through a root canal thing but if it happens I'll know what it is).

 

Glad to hear you are better and good luck with the tests.

Hey Bubble - so nice to see you!

 

Yeah, this root canal really threw me into a bad wave. It is still bad. Have a window here and there but been sick for the past 2-3 wks both physically and mentally. Very much like early w/d but not that severe.. I think the Advil was a big problem too. I just cannot tolerate any meds or supplements.  I am not a happy camper. I cannot believe this.  Hoping it passes soon.

 

Luckily I am off work today so I have 3 day weekend from work.

 

Also, just previous to the root canal I had made several small reductions over a couple months and I am thinking that also caught up with me.

 

Going to hold steady at current dose of .36 mgs for a while.

 

On the bright side, it is good to see familiar folks like you and Lex.

 

How are things with you? I hope you are Ok?

 

Poke

[LexAnger]

you will get better soon Poke. those pain are pretty miserable. I had one root-canal last summer, endured all the pain without the use of pain killer for quite a few weeks but eventually they went away completely.

 

I had couple experience taking advil for cold during my taper then experiencing severe WD symptoms feels like I did a huge lexapro reduction. I had severe reaction to Vitamin B and Vitamin D too.

 

found explanation for it here:

http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/treatment-579181-5.html

 

Poke, I always wanted to ask you about your super slow reduction in the past 2-3 years. You told you have been working steady ever since then too. what made you decided the tapering rate and how it helped?

[Pokeshaw]

Hi LA,

 

Thanks for the article on pain killers. It kinda sheds some light on why I am experiencing such a bad wave.  Praying that it subsides soon.

 

As for my taper rate - here is the basic reasoning behind it.

 

As you may know, I was 9 months off Lexapro before I reinstated. I was on disability with no options except go back to work or go on long term disability. My doctor suggested that I go back on 5mg of lexapro and try going back to work which i did. I did not know anything about protracted w/d and it was only a year or so later after much bouncing around and trying different things (including Dr. Hinz amino acid protocol) that I found this site.

 

For some reason I was able to basically tolerate the 5 mg even with side effects being added to w/d symptoms.  I did a self taper over a yr by cutting the pills. I managed to keep working. By the time i found this site I was down to about 1/2 mg. After reading everything here I began having the lexapro compounded and holding for long periods in order to gain some stability.  Each time I would make a reduction I had a worsening of symptoms. So, Rhi suggested that i might need to hold longer and then only do micro tapering.  basically 1% reductions. Then it started to be that my body began to tell me when to make the reduction based on side effects being greater than the w/d symptoms.. It is sometimes a gamble since as you know there is nothing clear cut about this. So it has basically taken me 2.5 yrs to go from .550 mg to .360 mgs where I am now. At this rate it feels like I will never get off this medication, but I try not to think about that.

 

 

Anyway - I continue to be very sensitive to any and all supplements or medications so I stay away from them. I couldnt avoid this root canal so here I am in a wicked wave.

Today is a micro bit better than yesterday so I have a little hope ~

 

C'est la vie!

 

XOX

 

P

[LexAnger]

Hi Poke,

 

Thank you very much for taking time explaining! It makes good sense what you have been doing. I remember you mentioned sometime earlier that how the long hold helped you and how much better you feel at low doses. It's so incredible how evilly powerful thieves drugs and still are being given away everyday like candy. I'm glad at least the micro taper works for you. It sounds we are tapering using a similar strategy dancing between the two evils, WD and drug toxicity. I have also been doing a much more frequent cut (1%-1.6% every 4-6 days) balancing WD and Reaction symptoms.

 

Many times I thought I know for sure what are caused by which, then soon I got lost again. What are the main WD and toxicity symptoms for you?

 

I hope you are feeling even better at this moment. . It's time for the root canal induced wave to be over.

 

Hugs,

Lex

[Pokeshaw]

Hi all - Need some help!

 

Hoping Alto or someone with experience with severe reaction to Advil will chime in.

 

I have posted that i had a root canal 3 weeks ago and had to take Advil for 2 days. I had a bad reaction and am in a very bad wave of w/d symptoms. hoping to gain some understanding of how long it might take to recover from this. Have a window here and there but Not doing well at all.

 

Lex sent me this and it makes sense.

Why Painkillers Interfere with Anti-depressants

http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/treatment-579181-5.html

 

I am still very sensitive to any and all supplements but have not had to take pain meds or any other meds these past 2 yrs except antibiotics for 3 days last yr for a urinary tract infection and i tolerated that alright. Wasnt as bad as this.

 

Please advise ~~~ thank you!

 

Poke

[LexAnger]

I am so sorry Poke that you are still in this wave from the hiccup.

 

Before others to respond, I can share my experience with Advil. It happened couple times to me in the past years during my taper. Each time I took Advil for cold for couple days, then I got an intolerable tension headache that I had to updose which took care of the headache quickly like in a few hours or overnight, then I would decrease the dose quickly in a few days back to the original dose without further problems. Tension headache I got from this is exactly same as the tension headache from too big of dose reduction. I remember I had to increase from 4 mg to 4.5mg, a 10% increase.

 

Luckily I was able to updose back then when I was not super sensitized as it is today. If it happens now I would not have that option as updosing can throw me into a different and long last turmoil.

 

I remember once read something talking about painkillers decrease the ssir absorption or serotonin production. My experience confirms the theory.

[Pokeshaw]

I am so sorry Poke that you are still in this wave from the hiccup.

 

Before others to respond, I can share my experience with Advil. It happened couple times to me in the past years during my taper. Each time I took Advil for cold for couple days, then I got an intolerable tension headache that I had to updose which took care of the headache quickly like in a few hours or overnight, then I would decrease the dose quickly in a few days back to the original dose without further problems. Tension headache I got from this is exactly same as the tension headache from too big of dose reduction. I remember I had to increase from 4 mg to 4.5mg, a 10% increase.

 

Luckily I was able to updose back then when I was not super sensitized as it is today. If it happens now I would not have that option as updosing can throw me into a different and long last turmoil.

 

I remember once read something talking about painkillers decrease the ssir absorption or serotonin production. My experience confirms the theory.

Thanks, Lex -

 

Not sure i can do anything except ride this out. Will hope to hear from Alto or another ~~

 

Poke

[Altostrata]

Pokeshaw, did you have anesthesia for the root canal? That could be the cause of your upset.

 

I don't know of a reaction particular to Advil.

[Pokeshaw]

Hi Alto - Yes, I had anesthesia, whatever would be typical for a root canal. and then the Advil for a couple days.

So I guess it makes sense that it would be the anesthesia. Not sure why i was so focused on the Advil.

 

My concern is that it has hit me so hard and I am experiencing all the worst w/d symptoms that I had originally. This happens in reaction to supplements but not quite as severe and usually passes in a few days. It has been 3 weeks now. 

The vertigo/nausea and diarrhea is the worst part. and of course the horrible panic/dread and intrusive thoughts. I can't believe I am back in this hellish place. I have a doc appt Wed because I want to rule out intestinal bug but it seems related to the root canal since it started shortly after.

 

I do have windows of 'grace' that give me hope! Hangin on to those.

 

Gratefully,

 

Poke

[bubble]

Sorry to hear you are struggling so badly. I don't know how exactly anesthesia works but I think it affects the CNS.

 

You will get through this and apparently it will be through windows and waves. I just hope it won't last long. I also hope you can take some time off work to treat yourself gently.

 

I had a very bad crash at the end of last year and I'm slowly recovering. Feeling a lot better after 7 months but still not at my baseline. I have low energy and get very tired easily so don't post much. I wrote more about this experience on my thread in the benzo subsection.

 

Keep us posted. Big hugs.

[Pokeshaw]

Hi Bubble,

 

Good to hear from you. I am sorry to hear about the bad crash you had. It is crazy how this goes. I hope you continue to feel better.

 

Yeah, seems I was hit pretty hard by the whole root canal thing. anesthesia, advil and the drilling of a nerve out of my head!  I havent been this sick since original w/d. There does seem to be a tiny bit of improvement that I am hanging on to.

 

I am working from home so far this week since I dont feel well enough to battle the subway commute. I have next week off. Looking forward to that.

 

Hugs to you too ~

Poke

[Pokeshaw]

Update -

 

Been a month since root canal/anesthesia/advil and still suffering thru a bad wave.  Some improvement but W/D symptoms persist.

 

Gut motility - too fast

Clench of abdomen

nausea

vertigo

loss of appetite/weight loss

interrupted sleep

racing thoughts/anxiety/depression

etc

 

Have next week off so hoping to get some rest from work at least. I know this will pass but wow - havent been this sick since original W/D in 2011.

 

Best,

 

Poke

[Pokeshaw]

Update -

 

feeling a little better. intense symptoms have dialed down from an 8 to a 5 with periods of windows. able to eat again. Sleeping better.

mornings are the most difficult - after bowel movement.

Better as day goes on.

off work all this week. going away to the beach today for 3 nights. feeling anxious and fearful about leaving. I feel so vulnerable. safe at home.

strange - pre W/D I was not fearful like this.

 

Poke

[AliG]

Pokeshaw. It sounds like you are traveling along pretty well. Symptoms 8 - 5 seems pretty good.   It's amazing that you're seeing Dr Kelly Brogan.

I'm reading her book at the moment - " A Mind of Your Own ". I like and agree with her views. 

 

I hope you have a lovely break at the beach. I understand the anxiety but it does us a lot of good to step out of our " comfort zone" and I'm sure that it will do you good. Try to relax and enjoy .

Ali

[LexAnger]

Poke,

 

I'm so glad you are feeling better eventually! As your confidence grows with the symptoms die down, you will get even better faster.

Yeah, this whole journey is full of new ugly faces along the path, but with each showing up and disappearing, your body is being healed to get back to the normal home state one by one, until all are settled in peace, a part of the process.

 

I also just started to have the fearfulness, new to me even during the whole tapering. Anxious feeling is another one just being added on. Physical symptoms have always been my only complain until recently. It could be the unique pattern for lexapro.

 

3 nights at the beach sounds a wonderful getaway. I'm sure you will enjoy and forget about the whole misery in the beauty and nature.

 

Hugs,

Lex,

[Pokeshaw]

Need help ~

 

Hoping Alto can chime in to let me know if this kind of set back due to the anesthesia would take a long time to even out?

Was nice to get away. had a bit of a window while there but then another wave. Symptoms are bad today. Extreme vertigo/nausea and bowel issues. Also hypoglycemia crashes. Always have been a bit of an issue for me but really bad right now. have to really focus on eating frequently. hard with nausea.

It's been a month since the root canal.

Also, just previous to the root canal I had made more frequent cuts than my usual 1% per month. So maybe those caught up with me and then I had a root canal at the same time ???

 

I know it is related to this set back after having root canal with anesthesia but the waves are so intense I am having trouble dealing. Nausea/vertigo and episodes of hopelessness and crying.  Have to go back to work on monday - can't think about that today.

 

I am feeling worried about this but not sure what to do. had stool test and all negative. saw doctor had blood work and will follow up. Also have an appt with Brogan later in the month though there isnt much she can do for me since i cant tolerate any supplements. But it is good to check in with her.

 

thanks all ~~

 

Poke

[Altostrata]

Pokeshaw, if you don't have any other medical problems, all we can do is assume these are waves and windows from the drug-induced upset.

 

When you were at the beach, did you eat anything unusual? Did you get sunburned?

[Junglechicken]

Poke,

 

Did your hypoglycaemia crashes only start post reinstatement?

 

I would be interested to know whether anything showed up in your Bloodwork. I have been experiencing these as well, and they only started happening when Cipralex came into my life.

 

JC

[Pokeshaw]

Pokeshaw, if you don't have any other medical problems, all we can do is assume these are waves and windows from the drug-induced upset.

 

When you were at the beach, did you eat anything unusual? Did you get sunburned?

Hi Alto - Yes, this started in the week after the root canal.

plus I had made more frequent reductions in the previous 3 months. more frequent than usual. Gut is my issue and too much reduction causes these symptoms.

 

I did not get sunburn. I am pretty careful about what i eat and stick pretty close to the modified paleo diet that Brogan recommended for me. However i did eat a sandwich with wheat bread and mayonnaise one day which I dont usually eat and which can cause me some mild issues.

 

The tooth flares up now and then so it seems to be healing in windows and waves pattern as well. I went back to the dentist and he xrayed and said it looked fine.

 

The vertigo/nausea and horrible intrusive thoughts are the hardest part of this. it starts after the BM in the morning. BMs are ok but some days a bit of diarrhea at end.

 

I will follow up with docs and do more testing if it doesnt start to calm down.

Thanks,

 

Poke

[Pokeshaw]

Poke,

 

Did your hypoglycaemia crashes only start post reinstatement?

 

I would be interested to know whether anything showed up in your Bloodwork. I have been experiencing these as well, and they only started happening when Cipralex came into my life.

 

JC

Hi JC,

 

I had issues with hypoglycemia before meds. in W/d it just seems that any issues i had previously can be aggravated.

Poke

[Junglechicken]

 

Poke,

Did your hypoglycaemia crashes only start post reinstatement?

I would be interested to know whether anything showed up in your Bloodwork. I have been experiencing these as well, and they only started happening when Cipralex came into my life.

JC

 

Hi JC,

 

I had issues with hypoglycemia before meds. in W/d it just seems that any issues i had previously can be aggravated.

Poke

Ok, thanks for that info.

 

When I reported the 2 episodes to my doc, she said there was no need to have the blood sugar test done.

[Pokeshaw]

Checking in. Still riding the recent aggravation wave due to root canal on July 7th. The good news is that I have had a couple of nice windows and the waves have lessened some in intensity. from a 7-8 down to 5-6 i'd say.

 

So, I am feeling grateful and hopeful that the worst might be behind me.

 

Best,

 

Poke

[scallywag]

Hooray for windows!  I'm sure seeing a pattern again is a huge relief.

[Pokeshaw]

Here to report that the hellish wave has subsided. I am sooooo grateful not to be dizzy and queezy. HALLELUJAH!

So grateful, grateful, grateful.

 

And my wonderful doc said - hey, you know what is good for balancing the vagus nerve??  Humming and chanting. So I have resumed my wonderful Kirtan Kriya chanting meditation that Brogan prescribed for me. I think it really helps especially with stress.

 

Sleep issues have returned but hey, I can survive on 6hrs of sleep if I am not dizzy. That vertigo is a killer.

 

Life is good again!

 

Thanks all for listening to me during this wave ~~~

 

Poke

[LexAnger]

That's great news,Poke!

So happy you get your life back and feeling good!

 

Stay well,

Lex

[Pokeshaw]

Thank you, Lex ~~

 

How are you doing?  I hope all is ok.

 

Poke

[LexAnger]

I'm doing a lot better too since down to 1.8 mg, seems the evil drug reaction is subsiding, only need to deal with the normal WD which is not bearable either. I still need to cut frequently to keep the drug toxicity under control though.

[Pokeshaw]

Lex - glad to hear that you are a bit better. I know what you mean about 'only have to deal with the normal WD.' I am in the same place. Now just have to see how long I can hold on current dose. Want to try a long hold to see if it helps. been 7 wks at current dose of .360 mg. One the side effects increase I will have to reduce again but not just yet.

Take good care~~

 

Poke

[JanCarol]

Hey Poke - wow, you are a clear example of patience, persistence, and positive attitude!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your recent waves, it must feel discouraging after all this time.  But, too, you're still in the time frame to be "all shook up" from your rougher treatment of Lexapro previously.  I know, 5 years seems like forever, but in this game - well - you've come a long way baby, and I like to believe the worst is behind you now.

 

I have an ancestral home in Brooklyn.  The oldest frame house in the USA was built by one of my ancestors, a Dutch founder of New Amsterdam - the Pieter Wyckoff house and gardens.  It is one of the oldest houses in NY.  If you ever want to travel back in time, it looks like a nice place to visit. 

 

I'm glad to hear about your kirtan chanting meditation.  I find chanting easier than meditation, as it is more active.  You have to remember the words and the notes.  It can kind of go into "trance territory" but that is less likely if you are practicing it alone, and have control over what words you sing.

 

The amazing thing about chanting is how much it vibrates the vagus nerve.  This would be awesome for anxiety response, as well as improving digestion.  I think if you keep this up as a practice, you will get stronger much faster!

[Pokeshaw]

Hi JanCarol,

 

Thank you for reaching out! Much appreciated.

 

Yes, I guess I have come a long way!

But wow, this recent wave def threw me for a big loop. Wasn't expecting to be hit so hard by having a root canal. 

Doing a lot better now 2 months out though I still have some rough days here and there. Have to be really careful. Just dealing with one of those days now. And the tooth still bothers me now and then. The healing pattern is very up and down and sideways.  Doesnt take much to upset the balance. I am going to hold at current dose indefinitely and wait on the next phase of tooth treatment (the crown). Endodontist has assured me it is safe to wait until i am feeling better. Hopefully prepping the tooth and installing crown wont be so traumatic to my n/s. Shouldnt need any anesthesia for one thing.

 

And yes - the chanting is very interesting. Brogan gave me this link to a guided Kirtan Kriya meditation so that is very helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wR4XhW0Sl0

 

I also swear by this meditation which I found here at SA. So relaxing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v45WSuAeYI

 

In addition I do some of my own chanting and humming at different times of the day. These seem to be the only things I can tolerate.

 

Just saw Brogan the other day and she was telling me about an NAET practitioner she is looking into. She doesnt yet have any of her micro tapering patients seeing him yet though so no idea if it would be helpful. A chiropractor I went to yrs ago started doing this work. I remember having a couple treatments but didnt notice anything. Wasnt even on meds at that time.

Brogan was thinking it might be worth a try for me since she saw it work wonders for a collegue who was very sick with chronic fatigue etc.  At this poin I am not sure I can swing the cost of weekly treatments so will have to wait on that. I did a search here to see if anyone else has tried it but didnt find any results. If you arent familiar with it here is some info

Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Techniques

https://www.naet.com/

 

And that is so cool about your Wyckoff connection! I've heard of the house but have never been. There is a Wyckoff street in the neighborhood I live in - Cobble Hill/Carroll Gardens.

 

Take care -

 

Best,

 

Poke