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JanCarol

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Here ya go:  Hand2_zps69aa3328.jpg

 

Hand1_zps53ac7867.jpg

 

That's the "thing."  Thank the gods I'm left handed!  But typing . . . is a bear!

 

It actually hurts more, as it shifts the whole dynamic of my hand away from the injury.  Panadeine is my friend.   <_<

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

JanCarol,

 

It is a thing.   Its a big thing too!  You could almost give the thing its own name and postcode.

 

Dont let the thing weight you down (pardon the pun)

 

D

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Thanks Dalsaan!  I'm having an hour off the thing so that I can soak my achy hand with magnesium & arnica.  And wait for the panadeine to kick in before the thing comes back.  I am finding that it is very supportive for carrying things, as well as an excellent reminder to keep my hand still.  It's actually smaller than the things they had in the catalogue which went up whole arm, or froze index finger and thumb as well.  So it could be worse!  

 

And it would be better if I would just let the typos through but that bothers me entirely too much (Little OCD abuot the typos?  There I let one through and it didn't killl me.....)

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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*hugs*   :wub:

All medications::

Xanax (1995-96), Aropax (1995-96), Mellaril (1997-2000), Efexor (1997-2002), Seroquel (2000-now), Lithium Carbonate (2000-now), Avanza (2002-05), Epilim (2005), Seroquel-XR (2000-now), Zyprexa (2002-14), Raberprazole (2000-now prn), Crestor (2009-15), Gabapentin (2009-12), Lamictal (2010-now), Abilify (2011-now) Lyrica (2012-now), Diazepam (2010-now prn), Saphris (2014), Respiridone (2014), Chlorpromazine (2014) Neulatil (07/2016)

 

Current medications:

Lithium Carbonate 750mg; Seroquel-XR 600mg800mg 04/16, 600mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 200mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 500mg 04/16; Lamictal 250mg 200mg150mg 04/16; Lyrica 300mg; Abilify 20mg 30mg 11/15 Zoloft 25mg 04/16 ceased after a week due to severe suicidal thoughts; Seroquel 25mg prn; Diazepam 40mg CT Jan 2013, 5mg occasionally, (massive med changes in April 2016 due to a hospital admission).

 

SupplementsFish oil 4000mgMagnesium 100mg Niacinamide 1000mgSlippery Elm 800mg , B12 1000mcg, Zinc 50mg, B6 100mg, Vitamin D 2000IU, Calcium 1200mgP5P 100mg, Vitamin C 2000mg, Vitamin E 400IU

 

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Tai Chi = mistake.  He's probably a good teacher, but I couldn't take it.  I wasn't paying him $40 an hour to "watch him."  To "not do"  I appreciate that the average student he gets is likely clueless, but I didn't feel that my traditions were respected.  He's done martial arts for 40 years.  I've done them for 30 now.  

 

I was not prepared to go back to square one.  "feel the length of your joints."  Yes, I had the thing on my hand but I'm not an eggshell or a beginner.

 

I'm used to the Chinese way of teaching, where you follow teacher for years, and the mechanics and forms sink into your body through imitation and - when you're good enough - correction.  I did not need an hour long expensive lecture on theory.  I guess that's where he starts with anyone, but blah, blah, blah, shut UP and TEACH! was how I felt.

 

End result, I cried for an hour afterwards when faced with the prospect of 10 years with that guy.  On the one hand, he offers everything I want, a private studio with a program customized to my needs.  On the other hand, it was like being a white belt all over again or worse.  Plus it's a minimum of $40 just to see him - no affordable group classes.  Tai Chi is $5 at the PCYC (Police Citizen's Youth Club, for you Yanks) but it's in the morning.  It's $10 at the showgrounds, but that's in the morning, too.  Bloody pointless.  Maybe I can go to the showgrounds one, and make a contact and find an alternative.

 

I also have videos of my Grandmaster from NYC doing the forms.  But that's harder to do when they are facing you - not like doing it behind them.

 

At least I tried something new?  But I'm up against it as to how I'm going to keep my physical body going during this awful down time.  I did some Pilates core work yesterday - must have done it right, have sore obliques today.  Maybe that's all I can do.  But I will keep trying for something, because as bad as I am at the martial arts, I really love them, the concentration, the power and finesse (when I get there) - it's the most meaningful activity - besides yoga (which is off the menu, also) - that I have.  And extremely helpful in mood control - the controlled violence is an important work, and always improves and stabilizes my mood.

 

Overall I would say his teaching style is not compatible with my learning style.  That's probably the kindest way of putting it.   :(

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Chest pain.  In my case it is so difficult to separate health problems, to iatrogenic health problems, from withdrawal.

 

I guess I need to do some cardio investigation.  MD will scold me for being off statins.  But if I have a valve problem or constricted artery, it would explain a lot of the "uncomfortable heartbeat" sensations I have that are not panic, not cortisol, not even high pulse or blood pressure.

 

Sigh, I am just recovering from the last round of medical stuff.  Will I ever get to dynamic again?

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Well, in good news, a Dr. Goezschke from The Netherlands is touring Australia with his book, "Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime:  How big pharma has corrupted healthcare." which one the British Medical Association award.  He is a professor of psychiatry in Amsterdam.    So I printed some stuff off, and gave it to my acupuncturist, my psychologist, and psychiatrist.  I got a text today from the psychologist for thanking me for this opportunity, and that she is planning on going!

 

Haven't heard from the others, but it really lifts my spirits that she is going to come.  Hubby promised me a gluten-free, grass fed burger afterward, too (and he will handle the anxiety stuff, the parking, the driving in City, etc.)

 

I posted a link to it in the Aussie thread.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

So I'm FREE!  Free of that danged splint, that is.  The physio today told me to put arnica, tea tree cream on it, massage it, and exercise it.  She said that stress balls were too firm for the injury, I needed to find something soft, like a NERF ball, or a towel.

 

Ironically, I found the perfect thing:

 

mMbUgrDa_Iv8x_mAGEg3PTA.jpg

 

It's a brain shaped stress ball, and soft enough for me to squeeze.  Unfortunately, it says Wellbutrin on the bottom.

 

It was a gift from my Doctor friend in Indiana.  There is a story behind it.  When she was in med school, she was doing (dissecting) brains, and smuggled me up into the lab, so that she could show me the brain, all its bits, and practice her knowledge while I learned things too.  I remember holding this dense matter in my hands, amazed at the thought that THOUGHTS and FEELINGS come from these things.  She showed me the amygdala, the corpus collosum (so delicate!), the frontal lobes, the hemisphere, and the raisin called the pineal gland.  Wow.  That tiny thing does all THAT?

 

So, years later, when, in her practice (and I was on Wellbutrin at the time) a drug rep left a bunch of stress balls shaped like brains, she made sure I got one.  And so - I squeeze the "Wellbutrin" brain to heal my hand.  Kind of twisted.   :blink:

 

Weird, huh?

 

* * * * *

In other news, I have graduated.  OMG!  I'm a Mod!  Don't expect me to change, but I will endeavor to be in more places as I learn the ropes of helping out on this magnificent site.  

 

And an indicator that this site is magnificent:  I will not have to change (except maybe clean up my language) in order to help.  This would not have been true on other sites.  3 Cheers to Alto and the team!!  (oh yeah, that's ME too!  I hope I can learn how to team play!)

 

I have great examples in the current Mods, it will be like a novice skier (me) skiing behind someone who can ski so well you don't notice they are hurtling down a mountain on waxed fiberglass!  It's the best way to learn, I guess, jump in and see what this swimming thing is.  Please be patient with me, "I am only an egg" and someday perhaps I can hatch into someone more effective.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I love the brain story, made me laugh as I can imagine you doing that :P  Congrats on the new hat :)

All medications::

Xanax (1995-96), Aropax (1995-96), Mellaril (1997-2000), Efexor (1997-2002), Seroquel (2000-now), Lithium Carbonate (2000-now), Avanza (2002-05), Epilim (2005), Seroquel-XR (2000-now), Zyprexa (2002-14), Raberprazole (2000-now prn), Crestor (2009-15), Gabapentin (2009-12), Lamictal (2010-now), Abilify (2011-now) Lyrica (2012-now), Diazepam (2010-now prn), Saphris (2014), Respiridone (2014), Chlorpromazine (2014) Neulatil (07/2016)

 

Current medications:

Lithium Carbonate 750mg; Seroquel-XR 600mg800mg 04/16, 600mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 200mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 500mg 04/16; Lamictal 250mg 200mg150mg 04/16; Lyrica 300mg; Abilify 20mg 30mg 11/15 Zoloft 25mg 04/16 ceased after a week due to severe suicidal thoughts; Seroquel 25mg prn; Diazepam 40mg CT Jan 2013, 5mg occasionally, (massive med changes in April 2016 due to a hospital admission).

 

SupplementsFish oil 4000mgMagnesium 100mg Niacinamide 1000mgSlippery Elm 800mg , B12 1000mcg, Zinc 50mg, B6 100mg, Vitamin D 2000IU, Calcium 1200mgP5P 100mg, Vitamin C 2000mg, Vitamin E 400IU

 

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Looks like "The Thing" (splint) did more damage than good.  I've been free of it for a few days now and feel much better.  A reiki healer / friend told me to LEAVE IT ALONE, no exercises, no creams or magnesium, no ice, NOTHING for a week, and she will see then after the damage from the splint is gone.

 

NEUROANGER  sheesh.  May be enhanced by the vitamin B's that I take, and aggravated by another 4 days on prednisone for the hand.  TRIGGERED by an ignorant friend who wanted to argue about the existence of Global Warming.

 

Kept me up all night, heart pounding.  I got to massage therapy today, only by taking a magnesium bath.  I just took another one so I can sit quietly with hubby for a few hours, but heart pounding, volatile, ANGRY.   :angry:  Still want to FIGHT with my friend, looking for NEW fights to pick.  

 

Whoa, JC, step away from the site and nobody gets hurt!  

 

See you later!   :blush:

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

EMPHASIS added:  supplements can really mess with you.  Be careful!  (yes, note to self, too!)

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Well, that continued into the night, I was up most of the night, finally had to knock myself out.  Now I'm exhausted, like I've run a marathon, only I haven't.  

 

Just a little too much going on for my tastes right now.  I operate under the illusion that I control my stress, I control what stressors get to me and which ones I say, "No, not now."  But that is an illusion - because people get sick, friends have needs (and it's hard for me to say no to a friend in need, especially since I'm the stranger here, I want to help), and the PP people still come pouring off the Titanic!  I'm sure we're glad to have them, I just feel scattered, disorganized and exhausted at the mo.

 

I've corrected the prednisone and B, I will gradually shift all B vitamins to earlier in the day (my last one was coming out as late as 5 pm), but it's like turning a big ship around, I can't just stop on a dime and turn it.  So I will eliminate the "AM" doses of B until I can pull the B out of the "Afternoon" packs.  Except for B12, Ortho-doc wants me on at least 3000 mcg of B12.

 

My compounding chemist has offered (yes, it's business for him) to compound a powder that I could drink instead of taking all these tablets.  What he doesn't realize is that I buy this stuff in bulk, inexpensively from the USA, and his solution might be more expensive and intrusive than taking dozens of capsules.  I hate powders, generally.  And he can't get, for example, the Vitamin C as cheaply as I can.

 

And once he does, it's harder to tweak it.  And I don't know if I need a script for that, or if he can just do it.  The one girl who chimed in (was it Fresh?) on the orthomolecular CAM thread started by "Freeman" (Johnny Atman) was just B3, B6 and zinc - and she's paying wayyyy too much for it.

 

I'll be glad when I feel like I can maybe exercise again.  I feel like I'm falling apart without exercise.  That's another factor in the neuroemotion - I'm used to going to karate and punching and kicking and grappling and attacking and being attacked 2x a week.  Without that, I don't have a healthy outlet to sublimate my anger issues.  I know I am kinder to hubby when I have karate.  (and yoga, as marvellous as it is, doesn't quite fill that need).  And I still cannot do any of that until my heart pounding is figured out, and my hand is well enough to bear weight and make a fist. 

 

And then, comes the question - in a week I'm scheduled for another micro taper.  My firm belief in holding - well - I've been holding for 4 weeks now.  Is this stuff withdrawal?  Is it iatrogenic damage?  Or am I just a sick puppy?  I'm leaning towards, once I get the B vitamins adjusted, doing another 5% taper, to see if I can ease the load on my kidneys - and maybe my heart, too.  Time for more research on lithium and the heart......

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I need to share what my acupuncturist recommended to me.  At first I didn't understand her because I'm a Yank (Aussies call ALL Americans "Yanks," even if they are from the deep south!), and this item is not commonly used in America.  I thought she was saying "Bali water" and I couldn't imagine what she was talking about - some exotic thing from Bali, perhaps?  Then when she said, "If you can *have* Bali," I realized she was talking about something more common and that I should be understanding it.....I asked her to look at me and say it carefully, and then I got it.  Aussies don't say the letter "R" ever.  And the amazing thing is, this implied "R" in the middle of a word - they can HEAR the silent R among themselves.  I cannot!

 

BARLEY WATER.

 

So at first check, yes, Barley is gluten based.  But Barley water, made by boiling the barley, retains the gluten in the grain, not in the water (I checked this with my GP, and confirmed it online).  It's a traditional beverage in England (you can get commercial varieties here but it's best to make your own).  It is used as a remedy in China, Japan, and India - all of which are ancient medicine systems!  And, of course, England.

 

It is a kidney healing tonic, and is often used to ease or pass kidney stones.  

 

You boil the barley in pure water for 40 minutes, strain the water from the barley, then add lemon juice (optional add lemon zest, orange juice, orange rind - I stayed away from the rinds because of possible chemical loads there).  I've given the cooked barley to hubby to have in his cereal (that's where all the gluten is).  Oh, and a bit of sugar to taste (also optional).

 

It's got a stunning array of nutrients in it:

Barley, hulled, dry

0.33 cup

(61.33 grams)

Calories: 217

GI: low

NutrientDRI/DV

 molybdenum59.9%

 manganese59.5%

 fiber42.4%

 selenium42%

 copper34.4%

 vitamin B133.3%

 chromium23.3%

 phosphorus23.1%

 magnesium20.3%

 vitamin B317.6%
 

 

 

AND it's chock-a-block full of healthy enzymes, too (these enzymes are vital to the brewing process, but also good for brains and bodies, too).  Sorry, I could not find the chart of enzymes that I was looking at yesterday.

 

Additionally, it can even lower cholesterol!

 

All my health practitioners agree, and so now it's barley water for me!  With any luck I can stave off kidney disaster while I taper off the lithium - using barley water.  I used orange and lemon juice and 3T of rapadura sugar to 2 liters of water, and it is quite tasty - more tasty than the commercial varieties.

Hi Jan Carol 

I am catching up with who are are sorry there are a lot of people here I don't know.  I happened to see your a mod now congrats ... and noticed metabolic syndrome in your post.  So I started to read but will admit I turned into skimming for certain topics .. not that your thread is too long to read I have read long ones before ...it is that I have to pick the times when I can handle that much content and it is not today... so I am cheating.  

 

Are you still using this recipe and it is helping with your kidney stats?  

If your ending up with 2 liters at the end how much water and barley are you starting with in the pot?  

 

I was looking at the nutrients in barley I wonder how this changes when it is just barely water and not the actual barely?  Any ideas on that?  

 

I know I have months to read yet... hope I am not catching you are a bad time .. I would not know yet as I started at the start... sorry if I have.

wishing you peace B

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment

Here's a fun one.  I watch a LOT a lot a lot of YouTube and videos about Mental Health, Psych Drugs, etc. etc.  Don't we all?

 

Now that I'm having feelings, I get this kind of goo goo eye thing that happens when I see my favorites. 

 

Two in particular, Breggin and Whitaker.  Whitaker is like my rock star, rock idol.  I listen to him, look at him, hear what he has to say and am thrilled to "see" him again.  I feel like we are old friends and we've had many chats together and find him attractive.  These are feelings, right?  Now I'm nowhere ready to pack my bags and track him down and find him and camp outside his house or anything like that - I'm just appreciating a feeling - a thrill that I get when I see his face, hear his voice again.  As if he were a rock idol and I a goo goo teenager!   :lol:

 

Breggin, it's more like, he's my father's best friend, a friend of the family, he's so sympathetic and warm, fuzzy, caring (these are all feelings I have when I watch and listen to him). He's that caring uncle that everyone loves, a big teddy bear of a man, and, in a different way, I'm thrilled to see and hear him, as if I know him.

 

These are relationships I am having with images and voices on my YouTube.  And you know what?  It may sound crazy, but it's not because what they are always saying, well, it's preaching to the choir, baby!  :P

Maybe we should start a thread of Doctors videos we find helpful or inspiring... 

I am have a few I like best... Breggin giving evidence is one of them I know so dry but he stands there and delivers and that can make me teary eyed... the truth has that affect on me. I don't have a link for it yet but I know it is out there. 

Ben Goldacre... What doctors don't know about the drugs.... it is on utube he is a doctor so it makes it ok... he has a couple of books and other vidoes on Ted 

Helen Fisher ... just one video from 2007... 

 

I think we get attached to these people as they represent us they tell the world ... perhaps we are not guilty or at least guilty with an explanation .. maybe guilty is the wrong word for others and likely is if ..."others"  did not have a complete personality change on drugs and did things completely against their normal nature... values morals... ect such as myself .. but it fits for me. 

peace Jan Carol 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment

Thank you Meimei!  

 

I must remember 3 steps forward, 2 steps back, is still progress!  I've been so wave-free during this whole process so far I was beginning to think it was going to be like walking out of a deep lake, getting brighter with every step.  Now, maybe, closer to the surface I am more vulnerable to waves.

 

Partly, I have mixed feelings about this orthomolecular stuff.  True, it's much more helpful and less harmful and destructive than standard psychiatry.  But there was a part of me which was learning, delving, seeking to uncover, to unwind and untwist some of the kinks that have been caused in my personality by trauma.  Again, I am more fortunate than most.  My trauma is more about peer rejection, parental restriction (and repression) and when I think about rape, the first image that comes to mind is of my brother, 6 years older than me - holding me down with my legs over my head so that I couldn't move.  It *wasn't* rape, but the fear is the same, and later became associated with that feeling.

 

When Horvile Harwath (sorry, I'm bad about his name) asks me to find the ONE trauma which shaped me as an adult, I cannot find one.  I find a million small traumas that bent me this way and that.  Like a tree which is near a tree struck by lightning, and another tree falls, and it breaks and bends things, then the floods came, and the fungus and grubs, a million small traumas.  The trauma didn't always happen to me - but we all feel it, don't we?

 

So anyhow, as I've been looking at the trauma in people around me, and holding it up in a mirror to myself, and trying to learn compassion and empathy - and deepen in caring and love - and look at myself and see how I mirror them, what I can learn, where can I forgive, where can I let go.  To truly examine these things and address them.  Because I WANT to get better, I don't want to live like that anymore, I want to walk away.  That doesn't mean I won't have to do maintenance to keep from walking back into the lake - but it means I understand better the shores of the lake, the temperatures, the winds, the currents, the shape and dangers of the bottom of the lake.

 

So you see, to be working on all of that, and then to be told by a Doctor, "oh, it's just your oxidation cycles, your zinc and copper, your under methylization.  In other words:  it's just the chemicals in your brain:  I want to scream!  And it's making me think about things in my life.  

 

The time at the 7th Day Adventist school, where I was vegetarian for a year.  At the end of the year (also getting accustomed to menses) I was malnourished.  NOBODY ELSE in the school was malnourished.  But I was.  And the cure - prescribed by the Seventh Day Adventist Hospital - which was more alternative in those days - was B-vitamin IV's (what a rush!).  The permanent dark circles under my eyes that made me think I was a Russian child. (come to think of it, all those Russian children in photos growing up - could very well have been peeing pyrrole!).  Mom's homemade bread (B-vitamin heaven!)  Our garden of fresh vegetables, Mom's skill and concern with nutrition and composition of the meals she served.  Every meal was balanced.  I started getting stroppy about church and the strictures of my family as I reached teenhood - and started "counseling" then (there was an incident, I won't go into it).

 

So years - decades - on my own, at what point did my diet change to tip me over the edge?  Or was it that I always was pyroluric, and it just didn't stand up to the stress of my divorce, subsequent rejections, and unbinding that caused me to explode?  

 

Obviously, it's a blend of trauma and chemistry.  And I need to work on both.  

 

And MeiMei, I wasn't ignoring your numbers request:  the cat was sitting on the numbers until just now!  

 

Keep in mind I'm taking 100mg of Zinc daily before I take these tests.  I was doing a number of things, activating magnesium, and trying to keep my hair from falling out when I picked that "high dose."  The dose I read about was 200mg, so I figured my choice was conservative.

 

Copper:  10.8 L umol/L   (BELOW LOW)

Zinc 26.2 H umol/L (OVER HIGH)

 

So the first thing is to taper off the zinc, she wants it down to 50 mg/day.  But I worry that my pyroluria will soar when I do that because:

 

Urinary Pyrrole HPL (ug/dL) Normalized:  17.6  which is "low elevated" on the lab's charts.  If it goes up, it will be "elevated elevated."  I've been accidentally treating this for treating other symptoms - and taking zinc which makes it better.  All by intuitive & careful research on the web, & the knowledge I learned from Mom & my own studies in nutrition.

 

Caeruloplasmin (how well I transmit copper) is 0.21 g/L.   still normal but at the very bottom of normal.

(this could have been a cause of my retinal gel separations)

 

Homocysteine 5.6 umol/L is apparently robust, which indicates good veins, and no B & pyridoxine deficiencies, and no obvious renal failure.

 

DHEAS 1.5 umol/L is low normal., she said affirming cardiovascular health, and not an immediate problem.

 

One shot of cortisol (the big multi-spit test isn't in yet) was 286 nmol/L which is pretty chill.  Not too low, not elevated.

 

B-Histamine was 0.5 umol/L which is right in the normal of normal (surprise!  Why have I been taking antihistamines all these years?)

 

So there you have it.  I've posted mine, Have you posted yours?   :)

So you see, to be working on all of that, and then to be told by a Doctor, "oh, it's just your oxidation cycles, your zinc and copper, your under methylization.  In other words:  it's just the chemicals in your brain:  I want to scream!  And it's making me think about things in my life.  

 

Sorry but I cannot let this slip away without a comment even if it was a long time ago ... this is my life!!! 

This is what it is like to find out "your drug may be your problem" ect and everything you have worked on for 20 years... has been a waste of time.. all the inquisitions you put your family through because there "must" have been trauma some place for your brain personality and life to be so messed up.  There has to be something everybody is hiding from you... oh my heavens the crap I have been thru is ridiculous... what I put my family through thinking maybe the turned there heads for 5 min and something horrid did happen to me and nobody seen.  

 

UGH!  For years I did therapy for I read books on trauma ... I did group works... I thought if I work hard enough I can free myself of this plague... 

 

I took all the pills of increasing amounts.. for 18 years.. and then one day I could not take them any more the neurologist said so... and I was lost and I was sick. 

I failed with all things the doctors were wanting me to do... I gave up quit everything long long story short.. I went cold turkey.  One day 8 months later I found pp... one day while reading pp... I happened to find a guy named Charlie on a post about personality changes... and how yep he thought a drug could do it.. and my world changed. that was 2008 I think or 9... I can't be sure my memory is bad. 

 

So how do you get those agonizing hours back of worry of pain of struggle... I have read so many books on various disorders as my dx changed... and did so many different groups if I could remember it I could write a few books.  So much ****. I am sorry Jan Carol this opened a flood gate it is not fair to be taking over you thread with it... but let me say I so get this if you want to talk about it I am around... and I do realize I may have more need to talk about it then you... as I feel my own reaction my discontent with all those years of seeking health while taking the medication that for me cause the loss of mental health ... there is no word for it. 

peace 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

 

btdt:

 

Are you still using this recipe and it is helping with your kidney stats?  

If your ending up with 2 liters at the end how much water and barley are you starting with in the pot?  

 

I was looking at the nutrients in barley I wonder how this changes when it is just barely water and not the actual barely?  Any ideas on that?  

 

I know I have months to read yet... hope I am not catching you are a bad time .. I would not know yet as I started at the start... sorry if I have.

wishing you peace B

I do - I start with just over 2 liters of water, and by the time I add the fresh squeezed orange, lemon and sometimes lime juice back in, it's back to 2 liters.  I especially recommend fresh squeezed juice - picked a juicer up at Salvation Army for $7!, for vitamin C, and detoxing.

 

In America, I had never heard of such a thing, but there are recipes for it the world over, from China, Europe, UK, Australia, with local variations.  Supposedly the enzymes stay in the water (but not the gluten!)

 

I find it soothing, and sometimes I crave it - I'm due to make another batch soon, but I got sidetracked into experimenting with coconut kefir.  Basically the kefirs breed faster than I can use their output, so I'll go back to barley water and OTC probiotics.  If nothing else, they taste better.

 

THAT SAID, I haven't healed my kidneys yet.  I'm not out of the woods yet, more tests this week on kidneys & bladder (& heart).  Hopefully it's all W/D, and will pass in time.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

btdt writes:  

 

I don't have a link for it yet but I know it is out there. 

Ben Goldacre... What doctors don't know about the drugs.... it is on utube he is a doctor so it makes it ok... he has a couple of books and other vidoes on Ted 

Helen Fisher ... just one video from 2007... 

Oh yeah, I've pumped my fists to Ben Goldacre - though I'll check out Helen Fisher!

 

I'm also pretty darned charmed by the young Will Hall.  He just seems so - solid!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment

Let me introduce you 

 

simple version I am sure there is more about her on here 

peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Btdt writes:

 

 

So you see, to be working on all of that, and then to be told by a Doctor, "oh, it's just your oxidation cycles, your zinc and copper, your under methylization.  In other words:  it's just the chemicals in your brain:  I want to scream!  And it's making me think about things in my life.  

 

Sorry but I cannot let this slip away without a comment even if it was a long time ago ... this is my life!!! 

This is what it is like to find out "your drug may be your problem" ect and everything you have worked on for 20 years... has been a waste of time.. all the inquisitions you put your family through because there "must" have been trauma some place for your brain personality and life to be so messed up.  There has to be something everybody is hiding from you... oh my heavens the crap I have been thru is ridiculous... what I put my family through thinking maybe the turned there heads for 5 min and something horrid did happen to me and nobody seen.  

 

UGH!  For years I did therapy for I read books on trauma ... I did group works... I thought if I work hard enough I can free myself of this plague... 

 

I took all the pills of increasing amounts.. for 18 years.. and then one day I could not take them any more the neurologist said so... and I was lost and I was sick. 

I failed with all things the doctors were wanting me to do... I gave up quit everything long long story short.. I went cold turkey.  One day 8 months later I found pp... one day while reading pp... I happened to find a guy named Charlie on a post about personality changes... and how yep he thought a drug could do it.. and my world changed. that was 2008 I think or 9... I can't be sure my memory is bad. 

 

So how do you get those agonizing hours back of worry of pain of struggle... I have read so many books on various disorders as my dx changed... and did so many different groups if I could remember it I could write a few books.  So much ****. I am sorry Jan Carol this opened a flood gate it is not fair to be taking over you thread with it... but let me say I so get this if you want to talk about it I am around... and I do realize I may have more need to talk about it then you... as I feel my own reaction my discontent with all those years of seeking health while taking the medication that for me cause the loss of mental health ... there is no word for it. 

peace 

 
OMG B, now we get to the crux of the biscuit.
 
Thank you for writing this.
 
It's the conundrum.
 
YES the drug is the problem, and YES there was trauma, and YES, maybe I undermethylated all along, and then YES maybe I had more trauma which was another "insult to the system" (how Mensah puts it) which throws me into pyroluria and YES I have hardships in my life and fickled up relationships with my parents, siblings, and boyfriends and end up extremely unhappy and submitting to the drugs!  THEN having organ failure and removal makes the whole system even more unstable,
 
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
 
I'd say you hit the nail on the head, except I think you put on the whole roof!   :P
 
It's making me appreciate mindfulness a bit more - because really, all we have is:  "what's next?"  
 
It helps to know how trauma has made me fearful and avoidant, it doesn't help to BLAME the trauma.  But if you understand the fear, or the aversion, or the protective behaviour, it's easier to move forward.
 
Because, really, forward is all we have left.   :blink:

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Oh!  Her!  Helen Fisher!  Yes, I've seen this one!  Thanks!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment

I think I missed some of what is next in therapy I kind of threw it all out baby with the bath water... cause therapy when your drugged out of your head is stupid and not only ineffective but damaging. 

 

So out with the bath water went the sad Chucky baby... I am done with it ...

 

I did have some decent helpful therapy without being drug that was useful.. the therapy along with a great chunk of my life was a waste land of drug reactions and drug induced fear and stupidity... I don't want to revisit or ever think about as the waste is more than I can stand. 

 

I am glad you have the moving forward gene I think I may be missing it... or was busy building a roof.. bit of both perhaps and putting the roof on had me realize all the rest... it was a long process but and honest and objective one that will be what sustains me my truth .. and that is what will project me forward when the time is right ... a solid place to stand finally to build somehting where the lands are not always shifting due to drug effects... it has been a  long time coming... 

 

mindfulness have given me just myself my truth not my future forward still looks lumpy and awkward to me...but we will see

peace Jan

ps I might add withdrawal induced to the list drug induced and wd induced health and mental problems took a lot of years off me... something inside wanted to live so bad ..that is what sustains me I think that and the light of the truth shines on the path I am not sure where it leads 

peace again Jan. :)

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

That's funny btdt - because I don't know HOW MANY TIMES the therapist didn't want to talk to me "Until the drug had time to start working" because it was pointless to work with me in a depressed state!  What the - ? ? ? ? 

 

Oh - did I say the future looks bright?  You're talking to a depressive here!  It looks as bleak as ever - but it's all I got so I'm gonna go for it, even if all I do is roll around on the floor and groan!

 

They say that depressives are more realistic than optimists, but that the optimists live longer, happier lives.  

 

I'm with you, I'll take the truth anyday.  I can always read fiction if I want to hear about rainbows and unicorns......   :P

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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That's funny btdt - because I don't know HOW MANY TIMES the therapist didn't want to talk to me "Until the drug had time to start working" because it was pointless to work with me in a depressed state!  What the - ? ? ? ? 

 

Oh - did I say the future looks bright?  You're talking to a depressive here!  It looks as bleak as ever - but it's all I got so I'm gonna go for it, even if all I do is roll around on the floor and groan!

 

They say that depressives are more realistic than optimists, but that the optimists live longer, happier lives.  

 

I'm with you, I'll take the truth anyday.  I can always read fiction if I want to hear about rainbows and unicorns......   :P

Were you in a depressive state because you were in withdrawal... or a drug had pooped out on you?

 

make me wonder as I know many times I tried to get off the drugs only to have wd come back and drag me down... 

 

I think to that the drug cause us to be suggestible so we are more apt to be malleable to the ideas of the doctors.. lets face it when your brain only half working you don't have much to fight back with if you muster a fight at all it will take a great deal of work and care to put together anything sensible... and who could ever do that without the help and awareness of sites such as this ... not to mention the support and ability to find the information to start with.  

 

I had a not too bad brain on some of the drug or so I thought...lol

 

till I got off them and seen I was an idiot!

 

agnosa thing you know ok I am getting tired or lazy as I am starting to talk in wd folk code... it means too dense to know your dense... makes for an easy job for therapist I bet... 

every little thing they do looks amazing.. oh look you colored in orange wow... like running a day care and gassing all the kids as they come in so they sleep all day... easy work sure but legal .. not. or shouldn't be... should the truth be known.. ok that was extreme... I am going off the edge and need a break... still strugglnng with sleep tho I caved last night and took a kids gravol... just not my best and not presenting my self as I would like... going peace to you...

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Big congrats on your new job! And...IMO....I just need to be depressed sometimes....please don't act like it's a crime! Sorry about your hand. Just looking at that splint, it just seems wrong, doesn't it. Hope you're better soon!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Funny, I read this and go downstairs and give the social worker a talk about the evil of psych meds. Got on my soap box and went on for a while. He's been on lexapro and said he went CT off of it and realised then and even more this morning how horribly awful they are. Okay - off soap box now - don't need to preach to the converted ;)

All medications::

Xanax (1995-96), Aropax (1995-96), Mellaril (1997-2000), Efexor (1997-2002), Seroquel (2000-now), Lithium Carbonate (2000-now), Avanza (2002-05), Epilim (2005), Seroquel-XR (2000-now), Zyprexa (2002-14), Raberprazole (2000-now prn), Crestor (2009-15), Gabapentin (2009-12), Lamictal (2010-now), Abilify (2011-now) Lyrica (2012-now), Diazepam (2010-now prn), Saphris (2014), Respiridone (2014), Chlorpromazine (2014) Neulatil (07/2016)

 

Current medications:

Lithium Carbonate 750mg; Seroquel-XR 600mg800mg 04/16, 600mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 200mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 500mg 04/16; Lamictal 250mg 200mg150mg 04/16; Lyrica 300mg; Abilify 20mg 30mg 11/15 Zoloft 25mg 04/16 ceased after a week due to severe suicidal thoughts; Seroquel 25mg prn; Diazepam 40mg CT Jan 2013, 5mg occasionally, (massive med changes in April 2016 due to a hospital admission).

 

SupplementsFish oil 4000mgMagnesium 100mg Niacinamide 1000mgSlippery Elm 800mg , B12 1000mcg, Zinc 50mg, B6 100mg, Vitamin D 2000IU, Calcium 1200mgP5P 100mg, Vitamin C 2000mg, Vitamin E 400IU

 

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Reading some of the above re. therapy and drugs makes me mindful of my own experiences of therapy over the years and how its only in the last few months that ive realized that when I was having therapy I was also taking ADs and taking them in my usual haphazard way. So looking back at my medical records I noticed how it was start, stop, change, add, subtract, forget. So then I am refered for therapy, going back over past traumas; going round and round in circles and I realise that the therapists I had know nothing about drugs (or choose not to take them on board). Each time I went for therapy  I could well have been in a crisis caused by drugs, rather than one caused by past 'traumas'.

What a waste of NHS money that was then, that if only the connections had been made, the outcome might have been very different. I was (like many others) taking ADs like aspirin. Psychologists in the health service here seem to ignore the effects of drugs; it only they would factor in what people are taking, and how they are taking them the outcomes would be a lot more successful.

What is the point in doing endless CBT exercises or even mindfulness meditation if the way youre taking the drugs is causing half the problems. And of course the very fact of taking meds. can render you far less open to these therapies.

Ive learned all this rather late in life unfortunately, but better late than never.!

Simon

. Been on some kind of meds since 1982,mainly on and off things like imipramine.,2000 on75mg venlafaxine til it bottomed out, then 150, also no good. about 7 years. Almost ct from it and put on cocktail of  Cit, Mirt and Lithium. Remained there for 7 years.

Tapered Citalopram in June2014 and was off in 6 weeks. Mood slumped about 6 weeks later. Found this site sept 5th and got some idea why this happens.18th Sept stopped lorezepam and due to misunderstanding with GP was without it for 36 hours which caused a crisis.

from 19thsept 18mg diazepam to replace lorezepam(possible addiction) 24th sept 12 mg diaz per day. 29th sept 10mg diaz per day and tapering at 1-2mg per week. At 5mg will slow down taper. At same time increase of mirtazapine to 45mg per day.

Taking fish oil and magnesium as suggested on this site.

Also have menieres syndrome, a cause of vertigo, vomiting and partial loss of hearing, also very occasional drop attacks.

As of 8th October on; Mirtazapine 45mg, Citalopram 20mg Lithium 500mg Diazepam 6mg (tapering by 2mg per week) Fish oil and magnesium

As of 25th October Mirt 45mg, Citalopram20mg Lithium 700mg Diazepam12mg

As of 12th November Mirt 37.5 Cit.20mg Lithium 700mg Diazepam 8mg (to taper after 14 days by 10%)

As of 17th November Mirt 35mg Cit 18mg Lithium 600mg Diazepam 8mg (to taper after 14 days by 10%)

As of 25th November MIrt 35mg Cit 18mg Lithium 600mg Diazepam 7mg

As of 1st December MIrt 35 Cit 18mg Lithium 600mg         Diazepam 6mg  (been stable for the last 2 weeks)

GP intervention 19 December now on 150 Ven, 37.5 Mirt, 600 Lithium  Diazepam 7mg

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I think the past traumas are still really important because you may have a drug reaction but after you deal with the drug, there's still the trauma that is under all that goo. Mindfulness is good when used to help with distress, like for me, when I'm freaking out I touch something textile like a button on my shirt for example, feeling the button, it's bumps, it's curves, notice the colour, you get my drift, it's not just about stuff like meditating or trying to turn the mind into another state but concentrating on something mindfully, which I'm sure most people here know, it's being in the present moment, being right now. You can do it anywhere, no one would know, they might think you were doing it absentmindedly. It's way cool. . I have had so many CTs and have no idea what's under all my goo, it's so scary isn't it?

All medications::

Xanax (1995-96), Aropax (1995-96), Mellaril (1997-2000), Efexor (1997-2002), Seroquel (2000-now), Lithium Carbonate (2000-now), Avanza (2002-05), Epilim (2005), Seroquel-XR (2000-now), Zyprexa (2002-14), Raberprazole (2000-now prn), Crestor (2009-15), Gabapentin (2009-12), Lamictal (2010-now), Abilify (2011-now) Lyrica (2012-now), Diazepam (2010-now prn), Saphris (2014), Respiridone (2014), Chlorpromazine (2014) Neulatil (07/2016)

 

Current medications:

Lithium Carbonate 750mg; Seroquel-XR 600mg800mg 04/16, 600mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 200mg 04/16, 400mg 04/16, 500mg 04/16; Lamictal 250mg 200mg150mg 04/16; Lyrica 300mg; Abilify 20mg 30mg 11/15 Zoloft 25mg 04/16 ceased after a week due to severe suicidal thoughts; Seroquel 25mg prn; Diazepam 40mg CT Jan 2013, 5mg occasionally, (massive med changes in April 2016 due to a hospital admission).

 

SupplementsFish oil 4000mgMagnesium 100mg Niacinamide 1000mgSlippery Elm 800mg , B12 1000mcg, Zinc 50mg, B6 100mg, Vitamin D 2000IU, Calcium 1200mgP5P 100mg, Vitamin C 2000mg, Vitamin E 400IU

 

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I think I missed some of what is next in therapy I kind of threw it all out baby with the bath water... cause therapy when your drugged out of your head is stupid and not only ineffective but damaging. 

 

So out with the bath water went the sad Chucky baby... I am done with it ...

 

I did have some decent helpful therapy without being drug that was useful.. the therapy along with a great chunk of my life was a waste land of drug reactions and drug induced fear and stupidity... I don't want to revisit or ever think about as the waste is more than I can stand. 

 

I am glad you have the moving forward gene I think I may be missing it... or was busy building a roof.. bit of both perhaps and putting the roof on had me realize all the rest... it was a long process but and honest and objective one that will be what sustains me my truth .. and that is what will project me forward when the time is right ... a solid place to stand finally to build somehting where the lands are not always shifting due to drug effects... it has been a  long time coming... 

 

mindfulness have given me just myself my truth not my future forward still looks lumpy and awkward to me...but we will see

peace Jan

ps I might add withdrawal induced to the list drug induced and wd induced health and mental problems took a lot of years off me... something inside wanted to live so bad ..that is what sustains me I think that and the light of the truth shines on the path I am not sure where it leads 

peace again Jan. :)

"I think I missed some of what is next in therapy I kind of threw it all out baby with the bath water... cause therapy when your drugged out of your head is stupid and not only ineffective but damaging."  

I am sorry back in your personal space again.. but I have to make a comment on this as it is not completely correct... there have been times in wd and while taking the drugs I felt bad and the therapist helped me keep going... I was drugged and needed help she did help... there was also a lot of other stuff that was unhelpful considering the drugs I was on.. so it is part true part untrue... for reasons given.  

You know sometimes there just isn't any trauma that adds up to or makes an unrecognized servere adverse reaction make any sense a drug hallucination is never going to make sense no matter how may rocks you look under or how many doors you kick down it will always be a drug reaction in the chemical soup brain.  

That is all peace

ps I have told other people to honor what kept them alive to get them to this place of freedom and I need to practice what I preach... it is just hard to swallow all those years drugged now that I know what I know. peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

btdt sez:  

 

 

Were you in a depressive state because you were in withdrawal... or a drug had pooped out on you?

That's a hard one.  

 

I was always very self-centered.  I thought I was beautiful, intelligent, and that the world should worship at my feet.  SOME of this is just the crime of being young, some of it could be considered "delusions of grandeur"!  Where does the delusion end and "normal" begin?  I really don't know.

 

My first antidepressant - none of them lasted very long at first.  No more than 3 months.  And maybe only tried 1-2 a year.  So maybe my resorting back to depression was "rebound" from the withdrawal.  Or maybe - as MeiMei says - it was part of my natural, depressed state.  I was depressed (and not a little suicidal) long before any drugs were in my system.

 

Over the years, the docs "got smarter" with me, and tried me on tricyclics and other things before they decided that I was really bipolar, and always had been.  

 

It's so hard to answers.  The drugs and moods came and went, like plays on a stage.  Some were dramas, some musicals, and a few were comedies.  A couple of them might actually have been good, but they were broken down and replaced like the rest of them.

 

We are a cutting edge of experimentation.  We are in an amorphous place where our emotions have been made into chemicals and treated with chemicals.  MAYBE in another time and place, maybe without the chemicals, we would've known what is "real" in all of this.  But now we don't have that chance.

 

So it's up to us to make what is real going forward. 

 

That's what I mean by "what's next."  Not that it will be good or bad, it will just be next.  And that's what we are left with.

 

Take care, B, I hope you get some rest.  Agnosia - that's a good word, I sure know what that feels like!

 

as for the congratulations,  :blush: thanks!  I am only an egg, I'm still learning my way around this site - and think it's more and more awesome the more I learn about it!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Oh Simon, you are so right.  I think there are threads in here about Drugs as Trauma. 

 

As in:  the drugs themselves are trauma, too!  In addition to all the other stuff that made us turn to the psych drugs to begin with!

 

and you're too right when you say:  

 

 

What is the point in doing endless CBT exercises or even mindfulness meditation if the way youre taking the drugs is causing half the problems. And of course the very fact of taking meds. can render you far less open to these therapies. 

 

Well you might THINK you are being mindful, but is it your MIND doing the exercise?  Or are you just "complying" with the drug?  

 

I'm with btdt - imagine if day care workers just gassed the kids and let them snooze instead of trying to actually TEACH them something!?  That is so similar to what psych has done to us.  Again, I'm one of the lucky ones.  I've never been abused by a therapist (in fact, I used to abuse them, when I was really young), and I've actually learned things from therapists - even when they weren't "official" things like CBT or Mindfulness.  

 

LOL I was reading Thich Nhat Hanh's Mindfulness LONG before it became popular, just as part of my normal, natural growth.  It's strange, though, how that is difficult to transmit to others - and yet, Tolle, and Kabat-Zinn - and Thich Nhat Hanh to a lesser extent - have done just that.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

and B adds:  

 

 

You know sometimes there just isn't any trauma that adds up to or makes an unrecognized servere adverse reaction make any sense a drug hallucination is never going to make sense no matter how may rocks you look under or how many doors you kick down it will always be a drug reaction in the chemical soup brain.  

Oh, and you just brought it home for me:  there's 2 layers to the drug trauma.

 

First is the trauma that the drug causes, the withdrawal causes.

 

THEN, there is the trauma by having the ENTIRE MEDICAL team DENY that the drug is the trauma, and fighting your way through that.  

 

You go on to say:  

 

 

I have told other people to honor what kept them alive to get them to this place of freedom and I need to practice what I preach... it is just hard to swallow all those years drugged now that I know what I know.

Word.  

 

Like I said to you elsewhere - it's all the people around me, on Zoloft, on Abilify, on Xanax and Lexapro, and thinking they are "mentally different" when really they are the same as people who don't take the drugs.

 

I agree - there is usefulness to these things.  My personal policy is that it should be short term, and I start to worry when "treatment" extends past 6 months.  But I am not a doctor.  People don't believe me when I say things like:  " maybe the Doctor doesn't understand......."  and it then falls into that 2nd category of trauma above:  the trauma of getting others to see that the drug is the problem.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Simon and B - I drew a "Four Agreements" card today which said:

 

SURRENDER and LET GO of the PAST

 

"Whatever life takes away from you, let it go.  When you surrender and let go of the past, you allow yourself to be fully alive in the moment.  Letting go of the past means that you can enjoy the dream that is happening right now."

 

- Don Miguel Ruiz

 

Just seemed appropriate to this discussion!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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btdt sez:  

 

 

Were you in a depressive state because you were in withdrawal... or a drug had pooped out on you?

That's a hard one.  

 

I was always very self-centered.  I thought I was beautiful, intelligent, and that the world should worship at my feet.  SOME of this is just the crime of being young, some of it could be considered "delusions of grandeur"!  Where does the delusion end and "normal" begin?  I really don't know.

 

My first antidepressant - none of them lasted very long at first.  No more than 3 months.  And maybe only tried 1-2 a year.  So maybe my resorting back to depression was "rebound" from the withdrawal.  Or maybe - as MeiMei says - it was part of my natural, depressed state.  I was depressed (and not a little suicidal) long before any drugs were in my system.

 

Over the years, the docs "got smarter" with me, and tried me on tricyclics and other things before they decided that I was really bipolar, and always had been.  

 

It's so hard to answers.  The drugs and moods came and went, like plays on a stage.  Some were dramas, some musicals, and a few were comedies.  A couple of them might actually have been good, but they were broken down and replaced like the rest of them.

 

We are a cutting edge of experimentation.  We are in an amorphous place where our emotions have been made into chemicals and treated with chemicals.  MAYBE in another time and place, maybe without the chemicals, we would've known what is "real" in all of this.  But now we don't have that chance.

 

So it's up to us to make what is real going forward. 

 

That's what I mean by "what's next."  Not that it will be good or bad, it will just be next.  And that's what we are left with.

 

Take care, B, I hope you get some rest.  Agnosia - that's a good word, I sure know what that feels like!

 

as for the congratulations,  :blush: thanks!  I am only an egg, I'm still learning my way around this site - and think it's more and more awesome the more I learn about it!

Agnosia - that's a good word, I sure know what that feels like!

 

Have you looked at this

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7139-intoxication-anosognosia-how-do-you-think-this-impacts-your-self-care/?hl=anosognosia

 

All in good time I know your busy

peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment

btdt sez:  

 

 

Were you in a depressive state because you were in withdrawal... or a drug had pooped out on you?

That's a hard one.  

 

I was always very self-centered.  I thought I was beautiful, intelligent, and that the world should worship at my feet.  SOME of this is just the crime of being young, some of it could be considered "delusions of grandeur"!  Where does the delusion end and "normal" begin?  I really don't know.

 

My first antidepressant - none of them lasted very long at first.  No more than 3 months.  And maybe only tried 1-2 a year.  So maybe my resorting back to depression was "rebound" from the withdrawal.  Or maybe - as MeiMei says - it was part of my natural, depressed state.  I was depressed (and not a little suicidal) long before any drugs were in my system.

 

Over the years, the docs "got smarter" with me, and tried me on tricyclics and other things before they decided that I was really bipolar, and always had been.  

 

It's so hard to answers.  The drugs and moods came and went, like plays on a stage.  Some were dramas, some musicals, and a few were comedies.  A couple of them might actually have been good, but they were broken down and replaced like the rest of them.

 

We are a cutting edge of experimentation.  We are in an amorphous place where our emotions have been made into chemicals and treated with chemicals.  MAYBE in another time and place, maybe without the chemicals, we would've known what is "real" in all of this.  But now we don't have that chance.

 

So it's up to us to make what is real going forward. 

 

That's what I mean by "what's next."  Not that it will be good or bad, it will just be next.  And that's what we are left with.

 

Take care, B, I hope you get some rest.  Agnosia - that's a good word, I sure know what that feels like!

 

as for the congratulations,  :blush: thanks!  I am only an egg, I'm still learning my way around this site - and think it's more and more awesome the more I learn about it!

this is easier for me as I did not have a psych issue before SSRI drugs and went on them to begin with for pain in my leg. 

 

it is clear as day or became clear after I figured out prozac was not an anti inflammatory as I was told long ago... well maybe it is but it is other thing too a lot of other things

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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and B adds:  

 

 

You know sometimes there just isn't any trauma that adds up to or makes an unrecognized servere adverse reaction make any sense a drug hallucination is never going to make sense no matter how may rocks you look under or how many doors you kick down it will always be a drug reaction in the chemical soup brain.  

Oh, and you just brought it home for me:  there's 2 layers to the drug trauma.

 

First is the trauma that the drug causes, the withdrawal causes.

 

THEN, there is the trauma by having the ENTIRE MEDICAL team DENY that the drug is the trauma, and fighting your way through that.  

 

You go on to say:  

 

 

I have told other people to honor what kept them alive to get them to this place of freedom and I need to practice what I preach... it is just hard to swallow all those years drugged now that I know what I know.

Word.  

 

Like I said to you elsewhere - it's all the people around me, on Zoloft, on Abilify, on Xanax and Lexapro, and thinking they are "mentally different" when really they are the same as people who don't take the drugs.

 

I agree - there is usefulness to these things.  My personal policy is that it should be short term, and I start to worry when "treatment" extends past 6 months.  But I am not a doctor.  People don't believe me when I say things like:  " maybe the Doctor doesn't understand......."  and it then falls into that 2nd category of trauma above:  the trauma of getting others to see that the drug is the problem.

I agree - there is usefulness to these things.

 

when i said usefullness I meant therapy not the drugs... 

I am not sure these drugs are good for anyone to treat anything... 

it could be as Glenmullen says they would be much more useful at one tenth  the dose I don't know as I never tried one tenth the dose

As it stand now I would never recommend anyone ever take them. 

 

about the second stage of trauma if you want to call it that from doctors not recognizing the damage the drugs have caused yes that is a pain in the butt...more of a concern is when some of us are hypersensitive to drugs and need surgery or have a medical emeg .. they can really hurt us with more drugs by not recognizing the hypersensitivity exist even if they don't want to relent and admit what caused it at least cause no further harm.. please that is the one that really bugs me actually it scares me. 

 

I had surgery about a year ago and I went over and over again with them how I react to drugs... and which ones not to use ect... over and over... I think I was still talking about it when they  put me under...my last words so to speak. it went ok. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment

Reading some of the above re. therapy and drugs makes me mindful of my own experiences of therapy over the years and how its only in the last few months that ive realized that when I was having therapy I was also taking ADs and taking them in my usual haphazard way. So looking back at my medical records I noticed how it was start, stop, change, add, subtract, forget. So then I am refered for therapy, going back over past traumas; going round and round in circles and I realise that the therapists I had know nothing about drugs (or choose not to take them on board). Each time I went for therapy  I could well have been in a crisis caused by drugs, rather than one caused by past 'traumas'.

What a waste of NHS money that was then, that if only the connections had been made, the outcome might have been very different. I was (like many others) taking ADs like aspirin. Psychologists in the health service here seem to ignore the effects of drugs; it only they would factor in what people are taking, and how they are taking them the outcomes would be a lot more successful.

What is the point in doing endless CBT exercises or even mindfulness meditation if the way youre taking the drugs is causing half the problems. And of course the very fact of taking meds. can render you far less open to these therapies.

Ive learned all this rather late in life unfortunately, but better late than never.!

Simon

"What is the point in doing endless CBT exercises or even mindfulness meditation if the way youre taking the drugs is causing half the problems. And of course the very fact of taking meds. can render you far less open to these therapies.

Ive learned all this rather late in life unfortunately, but better late than never.!"

 

I did a day program before i went in i was drug free but in paxil wd...I know that now but not then... 

They did not want me to be drug free so before I started the program I was given respridal and lorazapam... 

I took it three months ct off when i was done as I had no way to get the drugs no doctor... 

 

I can recall saying to the CBT if I had enough control of my brain to stop and do all the thought processes she was suggesting I would not be there...to this day I don't know how I managed to get there and do that program on all those drugs 6 lorazapam a day plus the ap... i really had high motivations to get well then I gave it my all ... I failed.

 

All I wanted was to be able to control my brain like that... I had been drug 10 years previously... before these two new drugs and getting clean and trying to heal myself other ways...

 

I wish there had been a wd site then in 2000 the last 15 years could have been good ones. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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