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Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia


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#1 Altostrata

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:38 AM

Also see
What is the sleep cycle?

Early-morning waking with panic or anxiety

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

White noise devices for sleep

Light therapy for sleep problems

Update on milk peptides for sleep: Our friend Lactium again
 


Edited by ChessieCat, 23 March 2017 - 02:10 PM.
updated KarenB/Removed link back to this topic

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#2 stan

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 05:43 AM

how I manage my sleep actually at two months off fight or fly ? i fly (doing with) after arriving at 0 mg, many damages appear, nocturia (Have to pee each hour), and was feeling unwell When lying down(still today but less), and sleep fantasy when one night I do not sleep, I do not panic, the next night I sleep little better, my normal cycle is broken, instead of trying to replace it, I adapted to it, so I sleep at night half and morning half (i know one woman who does similar and it works for her too) to fall asleep mid-morning, i go to bedroom , I sit in a armchair, begin watching tv 32" near my bed I begin to zap the TV, I fall asleep sitting, I wake up, shut the TV and just slips under the covers, I try to not think about something, and I fall asleep , but unfortunately i wake up after about 1 hour to pee a little but I often go back to sleep again of course, doing this you cannot work, hopefully i am retired people who work cannot do this I have not to take drugs that help an area and destroy others areas I get to sleep a few hours a night and it seems to work since the beginning, tomorrow we'll see Withdrawal still plays as much on my body, I'll wait and see for nocturia because nocturia drugs have very heavy side effects my prostate plays a big part maybe, terror plays on peeing i made blood tests to see if all is ok I prefer to get up every hour like I do than take meds and get up every 3 hours but only to have syncope, dizziness, nightmares and other happiness (They help to peeing but Give You Many More diseases) if i recover more in coming months, i will check medically more my feelings , but today is too early, i have still to much symptoms but as i am 60, i will have to live with some problems i will try to take the minimum of meds since i discover that alls meds often do not cure and give more problems add to the original i am against all supplements but try to eat healthy (supplements in food better balanced maybe) but i respect people taking supplements because i am wrong maybe and will change in future hope this will help someone

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 8 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

chronic fatigue syndrome...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#3 Healing

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:07 AM

You have created a good sleep system, Stan. I also take a nap every day and get an additional hour of sleep that way -- sometimes it is my best sleep. Have you tried restricting your fluid intake for two hours before sleep? Does that help with the nocturia or no?
1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...
1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...
2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...
Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms
Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended
Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

#4 stan

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:23 AM

hi Healing,

restricting fluid intake for 6 hours before sleep does not help with the nocturia

apparently day activity changed in night( cycle is reverse), this gives nocturia,
this is sure paxil linked as my inability to stand quiet (akathisia at the beginning)

i do a mistake last post above, i am not two months off but two years off (hopefully, it was so long to reach 2 years)

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 8 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

chronic fatigue syndrome...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#5 Healing

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:34 AM

Yes, Stan, you are definitely two *years* off. It is certain! Wow! *Six* hours does not even help. Wow... Time, alors, mon ami. We must simply wait. Sur once wrote something about vasopressin being made too low at night because of how w/d affects the sleep architecture?
1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...
1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...
2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...
Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms
Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended
Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

#6 Altostrata

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:36 AM

I developed that frequent nighttime peeing when my sleep totally deteriorated. Theory is that an unnaturally high level of cortisol, the daytime hormone, at night interferes with your body's production of vasopressin. Vasopressin is a nighttime hormone that tells the body to concentrate urine so you can sleep. There is a synthetic vasopressin nasal spray that is given to children with bedwetting problems. I discussed using this with my doctor and he said he didn't want to try it because he thought the frequency of peeing was a marker for the elevated cortisol, and he wanted to watch it. In fact, my frequency of peeing at night has decreased as my sleep has gotten better. On bad nights, when I will also feel anxiety, it will be every hour. On good nights, every few hours. On the best nights, maybe once or twice a night. Stan, here's some information about your sleep pattern: Cortisol, being a daytime hormone, starts rising about 4:30 a.m. It peaks around dawn -- which is when some of us feel that morning burst of anxiety or panic -- then declines a bit to the daytime level. (Blocking out light to the bedroom helps blunt the effect of the morning cortisol jump.) When it declines, that may be when you feel a bit sleepy again. I know I do.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#7 stan

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 02:47 PM

thanks Surviving and Healing, i will more better read tomorrow, i am actually in high chemical nervousness panic 24/7 (adrenal/cortisol) , it is playing on my vision and body, with time it will lessen, i will see than what i have residual you are right sometimes when i am more quiet,i pee each 2 hours, but it is rare

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 8 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

chronic fatigue syndrome...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#8 Neuroplastic

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 02:57 PM

Still with me, unfortunately, at close to 2.5 years off. There are the spells of less insomnia when in the windows, though. Still re-wiring. Writing this post at 1 a.m., and hoping to be able to fall asleep by 4 a.m. The good news is that Monday is this very one day I can sleep a little bit longer. Blocking out light helps in my case, too.
2000-2008 Paxil for a situational depression
2008 - Paxil c/t
Severe protracted WD syndrome ever since; improving


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#9 summer

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 04:47 PM

Never gave this a lot of thought, but in the last few years falling asleep has become much more difficult. Been a problem for years, but is getting much worse. I thought it was a "getting older" thing, but maybe it's a combo of things. I also wake two or sometimes three times to pee, but thought that had to do with hormone/child bearing issues. Was told by the doctor it was??? Fortunately, I almost always fall back to sleep.

Wellbutrin: 150mg.

Xanax: .5 once daily

 

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#10 stan

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 04:36 AM

In fact, my frequency of peeing at night has decreased as my sleep has gotten better. On bad nights, when I will also feel anxiety, it will be every hour. On good nights, every few hours. On the best nights, maybe once or twice a night.

on bad nights (very often actually) it will be every hour, i have better nights sometime, On good nights, every two hours and rarely a mix of two and three hours

almost like you

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 8 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

chronic fatigue syndrome...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#11 Altostrata

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 09:30 AM

I've found when I sleep more, I pee less frequently. That confirms the theory that it's the alerting system causing the peeing by interfering with vasopressin, rather than the peeing causing the sleeplessness. Of course, sleeping more is something we want to -- how to make it happen? It's so frustrating.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#12 Healing

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 08:45 AM

The Wall Street Journal 31 May 11 by Ann Lukits Sleep deprivation can make it hard to concentrate. A possible reason is that neurons in different regions of the brain seem to go "off line," or shut off for brief periods, during forced periods of wakefulness, according to a study of rats published in Nature. U.S. and Italian researchers kept laboratory rats awake for four hours past their normal sleep time by stimulating them with new objects. ….the rat brains showed that some neurons went off line briefly in seemingly wide-awake animals while other neurons remained on. Neuronal off periods increased with prolonged sleep deprivation, impairing the rats' performance in the routine task of reaching for a sugar pellet. Researchers said these off periods during wakefulness aren't well understood but they may be a means of conserving energy or part of a restorative process. Caveat: It's not clear if the periods of neuronal off-time reflect the capacity of neurons to exist in two states, a phenomenon known as bistability, researchers said. http://online.wsj.co...ORDS=ann lukits
1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...
1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...
2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...
Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms
Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended
Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

#13 Altostrata

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:08 AM

Yes, it really does help to keep your bedroom cool -- and dark.

Really? The Claim: Cold Temperatures Improve Sleep
By ANAHAD O’CONNOR August 4, 2009 nytimes.com

THE FACTS

Avoiding caffeine, sticking to a schedule and drinking a glass of warm milk are the usual tips for a good night’s rest. But the right room temperature can also play a crucial role.

Studies have found that in general, the optimal temperature for sleep is quite cool, around 60 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. For some, temperatures that fall too far below or above this range can lead to restlessness.

Temperatures in this range, it seems, help facilitate the decrease in core body temperature that in turn initiates sleepiness. A growing number of studies are finding that temperature regulation plays a role in many cases of chronic insomnia. Researchers have shown, for example, that insomniacs tend to have a warmer core body temperature than normal sleepers just before bed, which leads to heightened arousal and a struggle to fall asleep as the body tries to reset its internal thermostat.

For normal sleepers, the drop in core temperature is marked by an increase in temperature in the hands and feet, as the blood vessels dilate and the body radiates heat. Studies show that for troubled sleepers, a cool room and a hot-water bottle placed at the feet, which rapidly dilates blood vessels, can push the internal thermostat to a better setting.

THE BOTTOM LINE

A slightly cool room and a lower core temperature are optimal for sleep.

https://www.nytimes....al.html?_r=1


Edited by Altostrata, 23 May 2016 - 01:30 PM.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#14 Altostrata

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:12 AM

About a sleep regimen: No one pill is going to cure withdrawal insomnia. You need to retrain the part of your brain that controls sleep: The locus coeruleus.

 

This may take discipline or changing your habits, like staying up late and sleeping late.

 

My doctor is a sleep specialist. Among his non-drug recommendations to retrain the locus coeruleus:

 

- Get up and go to bed at the same time every day. Rising at 6:30 a.m. is good because it is close to a natural cycle. Bed by 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. If you stay up late, you are giving the wrong signal to your locus coeruleus. No naps during the day.

 

- No bright lights, including computer, after sundown. They send the wrong daylight signal to your brain.

 

- At least 30 minutes of exercise every day before sundown. Walking is excellent; unlike other exercise, it does not increase the level of cortisol, the alerting hormone.

 

- Keep bedroom cool, quiet, and dark, and reserve for sleep (and sex). This is another cue to your brain that when you get into bed, it's time for sleep (or sex, I guess).

 

- Take melatonin at nightfall to signal the start of the sleep cycle. Start with .25mg and stay there if it works, if not, increase gradually. If it makes you feel bad, take less.

 

- Supplement-wise, he likes fish oil (with vit E), COQ10, niacinamide, calcium, magnesium. Plus a supplement called My-B Tab (Legere) an hour before bed (it contains sublingual vit B12, folate, and adenosine monophosphate). Get enough protein; a whey protein supplement helps. (I like NOW whey protein isolate.)

 

As with all things, you may be sensitive to a supplement, so start with a low dose of one supplement and see how you do. Don't try a bunch of supplements at once -- if you have a bad reaction, you won't know which one was responsible.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#15 Razzle

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:34 AM

A sleep disorder clinic in San Diego recommends this to patients an hour before bed. Smoothie of a banana, yogurt, tiny bit of honey, wheat bran, milk and cinnamon. I have used it and I think it may help on the not really bad nights.

#16 Altostrata

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:23 AM

This may also be important to help your sleep: Cut out caffeine. This means coffee, black tea, green tea, and chocolate. Caffeine has a very long half-life; the caffeine you ingest at 9 a.m. could well be keeping you awake at 9 p.m. Same with chocolate, green tea, and black tea, which contain a lesser amount of caffeine, but still enough to keep you awake if your nervous system has become sensitive from antidepressant withdrawal.
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#17 Altostrata

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:28 AM

I'm not suggesting anyone invest in one of these programs -- this article contains possibly helpful pointers.

Online Treatment May Help Insomniacs
By AMANDA SCHAFFER New York Times August 11, 2009

....Web-based programs to treat insomnia are proliferating, and two small but rigorous studies suggest that online applications based on cognitive behavioral therapy can be effective.

....The two new studies, from researchers in Virginia and in Canada, advance the evidence that such programs can work.

In the Virginia study, called SHUTi, patients enter several weeks of sleep diaries, and the program calculates a window of time during which they are allowed to sleep. Patients limit the time they spend in bed to roughly the hours that they have actually been sleeping.

The goal is to consolidate sleep, then gradually expand its duration — the same technique that would be used in face-to-face therapy, said Lee Ritterband, a psychologist at the University of Virginia, who developed the program.

Stella Parolisi, 65, a registered nurse in Virginia and a patient in the study, said sticking to the restricted sleep schedule was hard, “but toward the end, it started to pay off.”

“Before, if I was exhausted, I would try to get to bed earlier and earlier, which was the wrong thing,” she said. “It just gave me more time to toss and turn.”

But after using the program, she began to sleep for at least one four-hour stretch a night.

The SHUTi program, which spans nine weeks, advises patients to get out of bed if they wake and are unable to return to sleep for more than 15 minutes. It also uses readings, vignettes, animation and interactive exercises to help patients deal with factors that interfere with sleep. For example, the program helps patients manage anxious thoughts, like the idea that they cannot function without eight solid hours of sleep. It also reinforces the message that they should not do work or watch TV in bed, should limit the light in the bedroom and should avoid stimulants like caffeine late in the day.

In a small, randomized, controlled study, which included 45 adults, those who were assigned to try the online program reported significantly greater increases in sleep efficiency and decreases in nighttime wakefulness than those who remained on the waiting lists.

Specifically, participants’ sleep efficiency, a measure of the proportion of time spent asleep relative to the total time in bed, improved by 16 percent and their nighttime wakefulness (minutes awake during the night) decreased by 55 percent; neither measure changed significantly for the control group. The findings appeared last month in The Archives of General Psychiatry.

“The outcomes were very impressive, almost unbelievable,” said Jack Edinger, a psychologist at Duke University Medical Center.

The Canadian study tested a five-week program that also emphasized sleep restriction, controlling negative thoughts and avoiding stimuli like light and noise in the bedroom. It also included readings, and audio and video clips to teach and reinforce its messages.

Led by Norah Vincent, a psychologist at the University of Manitoba, the study included 118 adults who were randomly assigned to complete the program or remain on a waiting list.

“I liked that it was over the Internet,” said one participant, Kelly Lawrence, 51, of Winnipeg, “because when you don’t get your sleep you don’t want to have to get up and go to appointments. You don’t want to be out there on the roads.”

The online format made it easier to work around child care and other responsibilities, and to “pause the program and go back to something any time I needed to,” she added.

Thirty-five percent of those who completed the program described their insomnia as “much improved” or “very much improved,” compared with just 4 percent of those who remained on the waiting list. The findings were published in June in the journal Sleep.

Dr. Ritterband says he plans to make the online program publicly available, though not until after further study. Dr. Vincent also said she planned to commercialize her program, charging participants roughly $20 to $30.

Other online programs offering cognitive behavioral therapy for sleeplessness include CBTforinsomnia.com, developed and run by Gregg Jacobs, an insomnia specialist at University of Massachusetts Medical School, and “Overcoming Insomnia,” created by HealthMedia, a company based in Michigan.


http://www.nytimes.c.../11slee.html?em
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#18 Altostrata

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:32 AM

More do-it-yourself tips from sleep specialists, from an article in the August 17, 2009 San Francisco Chronicle:

"...Stanford's Dr. Clete Kushida, president of the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, who has worked in the field of sleep research since 1977, offers these tips to a better night's sleep:

- Maintain a regular schedule, getting to bed and rising at the same time as consistently as possible each day, selecting the number of hours of sleep that make you feel best, whether it's seven hours or 10.

- Use bright light within five minutes of waking, for 30 minutes, to synchronize your internal clock. [Don't do this if you have morning anxiety! Rather, go out for a walk later in the day.]

- Avoid bright light two to three hours before bedtime, which delays sleep onset. If you read, get just enough light to read and avoid halogen.

- Avoid remaining in bed if you can't sleep. After 20 minutes, if you can't sleep or fall back asleep, go into another room and do something else until you feel drowsy.

- Avoid reading or watching TV in bed (especially thriller novels or action shows) unless it makes you drowsy.

- Avoid napping, unless you nap every day at the same time for the same amount of time or you are tired and about to get behind the wheel of a car.

More information: To read more on insomnia, go to Stanford Professor Dr. Rachel Manber's paper at knol.google.com/k/Rachel-manber/insomnia

...."

http://www.sfgate.co...g#ixzz0OUOD7KKn

Edited by Altostrata, 25 June 2012 - 01:28 PM.
updated

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#19 Altostrata

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:42 AM

I know I've posted repeatedly about this, you can call me the blackout curtain queen. But it helps get a little bit more sleep in the morning. I believe this helped me turn the corner (assuming I have) in my horrible withdrawal-induced sleep disorder. With the slightest bit of morning light on our eyelids, our brains move into wakefulness. My bedroom has a southern exposure and the morning light can be very bright. - First, I tried a sleep mask. The mask really cuts down on that stimulation from the early light. I highly recommend this for people who wake with a jolt or have anxiety in the morning. (The mask I got was Earth Therapeutics black sleep mask. It is silk on the face side, which makes it soft and comfortable, but it is scented with lavender and valerian, to which I had an allergic reaction. I had to wash it a few times to get the scent out. It's very inexpensive, less than $8, available on Amazon.) But still, a little bit of light gets around the mask, so.... - I installed blackout roller shades. (Make sure if you order these, you get BLACKOUT shades and not just "room-darkening" shades.) I started getting a little bit more early morning sleep. Even with my linen Roman shades over the roller shades, a little bit of light gets around the edges of the shades, so.... - I put blackout curtains on top of the blackout shades. Now sometimes I sleep from around 4 a.m. to 8 a.m.!!!!!! I can still sense the morning light, but the sun has to be fairly high to wake me up.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#20 Altostrata

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:47 AM

From our friend Gianna Kali's blog Beyond Meds https://bipolarblast...d-nights-sleep/

Recipe for a good nights sleep

5 cups Epsom Salts

1 cup Baking Soda

Poor both ingredients into a large tub and fill with water as warm as you can tolerate comfortably.

Soak 10 to 20 minutes.

Go to bed and pass out. Sleep delightfully deeply for 7 to 9 hours.

No kidding. This works for me like nothing else has. Epsom salt baths are widely talked about in withdrawal groups and circles as well as alternative medicine sites. The thing is no one ever really says how much to use. This is a whole lot of Epsom salts.

We found sources of bulk salts and the baking soda both. It can be pretty darn cheap.

This knocks me out. Now it may be because I’ve never tolerated much magnesium supplementation and most of us withdrawing from psych drugs need mag really bad. Not everyone’s gut can handle supplementation with magnesium though.

When magnesium is taken in through the skin it completely bypasses the gut and so there is no gastro discomfort.

....
So give this a shot. I’m utterly shocked at the difference it’s made.

It also gets rid of my body pain. I have really bad pain that seems to be similar to those who are diagnosed with fibromyalgia. And in point of fact this bath is also recommended in fibro circles. I have no idea what my pain is caused by but I’m assuming it’s simply the withdrawals and hope it will eventually pass.

The bath makes the pain remit long enough for me to fall asleep.
....
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#21 ajay

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:54 AM


- Supplement-wise, he likes fish oil (with vit E), COQ10, niacinamide, calcium, magnesium. Plus a supplement called My-B Tab (Legere) an hour before bed (it contains sublingual vit B12, folate, and adenosine monophosphate). Get enough protein; a whey protein supplement helps. (I like NOW whey protein isolate.)


Alto, do you take the supplements [fish oil (with vit E), COQ10, niacinamide, calcium, magnesium] in the morning?

Thanks.
History is approximate; I didn't track my dosages.

1995 - started zoloft/sertraline for depression
1995-2008 - sertraline ranged from 100-200mg, may have gone as high as 250mg
2006 - 2009 - added welbutrin/budeprion SR, 150 mg
sometime in 2009-2010 - stopped budeprion c/t
sometime around 2009-2010, Tapered down sertraline w/o guidance to 50 mg, then 25mg.
~ feb 2010, stopped sertraline.
~ Apr 2010, resumed 25mg low dose (really bad business trip)
Oct 2010, stopped sertraline
Jan 2011 - another bad business trip "breaks" my sleep.

current issues include insomnia, anxiety, GI distress, depression.
Taking multivitamins, Vitamin D, fish oil, Chinese herbs, ~ 0.5mg melatonin in the evening.
Going to therapy and acupuncture once a week.

#22 Altostrata

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:31 AM

ajay, I take 6 fish oil capsules a day, two at each meal. In the morning, I also take vit E, niacinamide, calcium, COQ10, and magnesium with my multivitamins, etc. (As an older woman, I need lots of calcium.) To help sleep, I take melatonin at nightfall and, before bed, more niacinamide, calcium, and the My-B tabs. (The adenosine in the My-B tabs is another sleep signal to the brain. The My-B tabs also contain a small amount of vit B12, which is good for your nervous system.) I used to also take whey protein isolate before bed -- protein is supposed to help sleep, but I've kind of slacked off. I should do it, though, because it did good things for my nails and hair! (At one time, whey protein isolate had a large positive effect on my sleep, but it wore off.)
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#23 ajay

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:15 PM

About blackout shades: As an experiment, I taped contractor garbage bags (black) over my bedroom windows with painter's tape. It's not pretty, but I wanted to see if room darkening would help, I didn't want to invest in blackout shades on a "just in case" basis, and I had the bags & tape on hand already. I offer this up as a potentially cheap way to try it out. I'm sure the bags aren't as light blocking as blackout shades (It doesn't completely block full daylight) but it works well enough to block out a nearby streetlight and keep the room pretty dark at night and through sunrise. When I can sleep, it seems to improve the quality of my sleep. It has definitely helped my husband, who is a light sleeper.
History is approximate; I didn't track my dosages.

1995 - started zoloft/sertraline for depression
1995-2008 - sertraline ranged from 100-200mg, may have gone as high as 250mg
2006 - 2009 - added welbutrin/budeprion SR, 150 mg
sometime in 2009-2010 - stopped budeprion c/t
sometime around 2009-2010, Tapered down sertraline w/o guidance to 50 mg, then 25mg.
~ feb 2010, stopped sertraline.
~ Apr 2010, resumed 25mg low dose (really bad business trip)
Oct 2010, stopped sertraline
Jan 2011 - another bad business trip "breaks" my sleep.

current issues include insomnia, anxiety, GI distress, depression.
Taking multivitamins, Vitamin D, fish oil, Chinese herbs, ~ 0.5mg melatonin in the evening.
Going to therapy and acupuncture once a week.

#24 serotonin

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 05:46 AM

I havent really find anything that help me with sleep, i am currently trying 5 htp at 200mg, and camimile tea cause i cant seem to find the herb at big store! How i want to get off anti depressent and just be ok! I

#25 serotonin

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:07 AM

When i was on prozac i always managed at least 8 and sometimes 9, now i get 5 or 6 and the quality is so bad, i think sleep is so important and sometimes i think about going back on prozac just so i can get my sleep back! But i also know if i do that then i will want my sex drive back! I feel so stuck! Been 6 month :( and in the beginning it was not this bad

#26 Altostrata

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 11:32 AM

Yes, sleep problems are common in withdrawal syndrome. We have some suggestions for helping sleep in the Symptoms and What Helps forum.

Little things can gradually increase the return of normal sleep patterns.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#27 Altostrata

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 11:34 AM

How is 5-HTP working for you, ser?
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#28 serotonin

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 11:43 AM

Ok i had a calm sleep, even though i still only get 6 hour at least it is calm, i feel more rested! I think the prozac messed up my brain chemistry so i must supplement with 5 htp, and i actually feel more functional today! By the way i am currently at 200mg, and the thaurapeutic dose is 300mg. In the short term i know 5 htp is safe but i really dont know long term?

#29 Altostrata

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 04:06 PM

ajay, another DIY blackout shade technique is taping aluminum foil to the windows. Another luscious low-rent look. ser, if a low dose of 5-HTP seems to help, don't push your luck and increase it. The more sleep you get, the more you heal; the more you heal, the more sleep you get. If it goes bad on you, you'll know. In supplements, more is not better when you have a sensitized nervous system. So don't get all macho and pour it on! Be gentle with your nervous system, you can imagine how complex and delicate it is.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#30 serotonin

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

You are so right!

#31 serotonin

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:04 AM

Here is my theory! I believe sleep to be soo important for our health, I remember until recently I always slept at least 8 hours and sometimes 10 hours! I believe we must get our sleep back to normal! From reading on this forum even amongest the people who have been off of prozac for more then 5 years some of them are only getting 5 or 6 hrs of sleep! and the quality is still questionable! I find that completely unacceptible! I hypothesis that overtime not getting enough sleep is more damaging then being on an anti-depressent. So here is what I propose! 1) perhaps for long-term anti depressent users like myself and many other on this forum (10 years or more) we might have to accept the fact that our brain have been permanently damaged by prozac. and that the neuro transmitters are so unbalanced the only way we can balance it is to go back on a low dose of anti-depressent. 2) the reason for a low dose is two fold, number one minimum side effect, and number 2 to promote sleep. 3) number three i believe it is possible for us long term users to stay at that low dose and be happy, because we have developed so many skills overtime to deal with depression and that we don't need the higher doses to feel the same! 4) I also recommend supplementing with 5 htp if you are using ssri, or tyrosine if you are using wellbutrin type drugs! This is my proposal! For me i have two goals right now, to get back my libido and for my body to function normally, and right now I am not using any anti-depresent, but if i can't get my sleep back to normal, I am seriously considering the above opinions, because I believe overtime sleep is more important! Also not getting enough sleep decreases testosterone overtime!

#32 summer

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:27 PM

Hi Ser... I think that first you have to decide what your priorities are. I'm not sure how long you've been off an Ad, but, personally, once I'm off, I won't go back on for nuttin! 1. I've been on an AD for over 20 years, and I refuse to accept your fact that my brain is damaged. It is not. Yours is not. It takes time, as you've read here, and going back on even a small amount of any AD is not going to help the time factor. 2. There is no assurance you will sleep longer or better if you go back on. That's a gamble. Have you tried all the different suggestions to aid sleep? One of them might work for you. Have you tried the teddy bear suggestion... not kidding... it could relax you enough to fall asleep. Of course, a gf might help more. :) 3. All of you symptoms will improve with time. Eating healthfully and exercise will help you more than any AD will! I really hope you'll rethink this and not go back on any AD.

Wellbutrin: 150mg.

Xanax: .5 once daily

 

Charter Member 2011


#33 serotonin

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:53 PM

Thats true i dont want to go back, but currently i am relying on 5htp for sleeping, i mean isnt that a drug too? I guess i am just so desperete for a good niggt of sleep!

#34 compsports

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:38 PM

Thats true i dont want to go back, but currently i am relying on 5htp for sleeping, i mean isnt that a drug too? I guess i am just so desperete for a good niggt of sleep!


Hi Sero,

I read in the Zenbev thread that you just started experiencing problems after 6 months of being off of Prozac. Did I read that right?

Forgive me for asking so many questions but I want to understand your situation.

Did anything change in your life or not? Do you have problems with falling asleep, staying asleep or both?

What methods did you try before taking 5htp?

As this board knows, I definitely understand being desperate for a good night's sleep. But after my Zenbev experience, I just hope the 5htp doesn't turn on you and you have to deal with withdrawal symptoms.

Personally, I feel that going back on a drug would be a disaster. It may work short term but I feel it would eventually turn on you and you would be right back at the point that you are at now.

And as far as I know, there aren't any type of sleep meds that take you through all the necessary stages of sleep.

Sero, after being very discouraged that my sleep would improve, I now feel mine will. As soon as the stores open this morning, my first priority is getting blackout shades to darken the room.

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2012 and on pap machine

Dealing with protracted sleep issues


#35 serotonin

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:52 AM

Ok, here is the thing iafter stopping prozac i put my mind on a lot of stress medicine to improve my libido. Like maca, horny goat weed, and lu wei di huang wan. And those medicine alwaus give my right side of the brain a headache. Recently i quite saint john wort. I have decided not to put any stress on my brain with herbs and just rely on 5htp and stress reducing herbs. So far my sleep is improving everyday. I will definitely let people know how it is after a month! So 5 htp is the key here for me. It have been clinically tested and it can treat depression and anxiety and it is the number one anti depressent in japan!

#36 compsports

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 03:12 AM

I definitely want to add my voice to the list of folks like alto who have constantly recommended that rooms be darkened as much as possible. I knew she was right but for various reasons, I didn't follow up on it. I sure wish I had as I wonder if I could have solve this problem alot sooner. But I guess being cognitively impaired from sleep deprivation created a viscous cycle. It was only when I slept two nights in a row at hotel that I realized that I needed to darken my room asasp Once I got home, I decided to purchase black trash bags and tape them over my window. It doesn't look very nice but eventually, I do plan on having dark colored blinds installed when the situation is right. Last night, I went to bed around 9pm. Woke up briefly around 1am and then went right back to sleep and didn't wake up until almost 4am. I also had kept my caffeine consumption low and limited it to the morning. Just so folks know, I slowly tapered off of 4 meds nearly over 4 years, including remeron and doxepin, which was used for sleep. After having a disastrous experience recently with a sleep supplement, Zenbev, and never really finding that other sleep remedies helped that much, I feel that using non drug, non supplement ways are the best hope for me. Also, I have a sleep CD I listen to that helps although if I drink too much caffeine during the day, it won't overcome that:) CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2012 and on pap machine

Dealing with protracted sleep issues