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Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia


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i noticed i only sleep for 4-6 hours no matter what time i start sleeping. like no i woke up at 12 midnight after falling asleep at past 7pm. how can i improve this?

Dec 2012 tried 10 mg Lexapro caused panic attack 

                 titrated 5 mg, and finally settling at 2.5 mg for some time

Jan-May 2013 on and off carelessly experimented on doses from 1.5 mg to as high as 12.5 mg 

June 2013 had extreme anxiety/panic attacks/paranoia when I ran out of samples.

July 7 2013 - August 10 2013 went back to 2.5 mg to relieve the anxiety and it worked until i felt restless and agitated

August 11 2013 AD-free and substituted with 5-HTP and it seemed to work together with GABA after I read "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross 

dec 20, 2013 switched to 5mg Valium from 0.25mg-0.5mg xanax daily and felt better

dec31 3.75mg V

 

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is 4-5 hours of sleep enough? i cant seem to get more than 6 every night no matter what time i fall asleep. i woke up 12 midnight today after falling asleep at around past 7.  how do i improve this?

Dec 2012 tried 10 mg Lexapro caused panic attack 

                 titrated 5 mg, and finally settling at 2.5 mg for some time

Jan-May 2013 on and off carelessly experimented on doses from 1.5 mg to as high as 12.5 mg 

June 2013 had extreme anxiety/panic attacks/paranoia when I ran out of samples.

July 7 2013 - August 10 2013 went back to 2.5 mg to relieve the anxiety and it worked until i felt restless and agitated

August 11 2013 AD-free and substituted with 5-HTP and it seemed to work together with GABA after I read "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross 

dec 20, 2013 switched to 5mg Valium from 0.25mg-0.5mg xanax daily and felt better

dec31 3.75mg V

 

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Please read the links in the first post in this topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I've got a post with a long list of stuff that I use at various times...sometimes in unison other times in combination...see if any of it resonates...all of it takes time and helps a little...no miracles here, but they've all saved me at one time or another:

 

http://beyondmeds.com/2013/02/05/help-for-insomnia/

 

see this too: 

 

http://beyondmeds.com/2013/08/11/insomnia/

 

all of it together it a lot to look at...take one link a day...there really are lots of suggestions there. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi all. i have had issues with chronic insomnia since being a very young child. on/off for the past 2-3 yrs, i have been taking Benadryl as an otc sleep-aid for those nights when i have to go to work early the next morning and the previous night before i was not able to sleep at all. but it seems now that there are times when either my insomnia is so bad that the Benadryl does not work, or that Im starting to possibly getting used to the effects of the medication on my body? mind you that i also suffer from indoor and outdoor allergies year round and also use the Benadryl for my allergies, which at times can get severe. and i should mention that i do take breaks from using the Benadryl as a sleep-aid, because i know that it can cause re-bound insomnia if used for more than a few days at a time. so im interested in learning more natural ways of inducing sleep at night. i thought the post on using epsom salts in a hot bath was helpful. may have to try that one sometime. 

Seroquel:off since 2011. rapid taper, no sxs of w/d.

Ativan:off since 2013. PRN only, no taper. no sxs of w/d.

Wellbutrin:off since 2012. rapid taper at first, then cold turkey. 

Topamax:off since 2014. slow taper.

Depakote:off since Jan. 2015. slow taper.

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Hey lady I came to your post because I am having the same problem with my sleep..been about 13 months since my last grain of effexor. Can you tell me your timeline on how this all got better and if it is still? Msg me please..I'm getting 4 hours max only..frustrating but improvement from hourly break up sleep

2007-2012started Effexor xr 225mg -150mg- Varied2months of Taper,(March 22/2012 Off Med/in W/D)Currently No medicationMarch 22/2012- August 16/2012 - Totally Off Effexor( Rough Rough time) Reinstatement for a week(didn't work)****** New Doctor******* Very nice/helpful and in touch.Tried Zoloft- No successAUGUST 17/2012- STARTED 37.5 EFFEXOR FOR ONE WEEK - NOT GOOD < STOPPED.Started Buspar Oct 11th 2012----10 mg for the first 7 days and then 15mg a day---- Taking a new route----Racing thoughts - Gone.Oct 9th ( Done Zoloft,wellbutrin week project trial to feel better) - OFFICIALLY OFF ANTI DEPRESSANT !Oct 26 - Raised Buspar to 20mg a day- Tolerating wellJan 2nd 2013-

Reduce Buspar until full off march 20th 2015 Off all medication !

Tried natural supplements to no avail

Gluten/sugar free since december 2013

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Your profile says you are unable to receive messages, so I will just post here.

 

 How long has your sleep been bad? My insomnia seems to come in waves. My hormones definitely affect it negatively, so my sleep hasn't been great lately. I am still tapering so I can't tell you how long it will take to go away completely. I had that waking every hour with anxiety/adrenaline for about a week. Then I was just waking every hour. Then I would awaken every 2 hours, then it got longer. Now I am back to taking hours to fall asleep and waking up frequently, but not with physical anxiety. My sleep just goes up and down, there really is no set pattern. Wish I could be of more help.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I realize that good sleep hygiene techniques that are non medical work well for so many people! And I use many of them myself.

 

But with my two traumatic injuries, my physical pain made sleep nearly impossible. One medication I found that has helped me is tizanidine... It's a muscle relaxer. When I had an urgent appendectomy in July 2013 I had sharp muscle spasms!! So I used flexiril for a couple of weeks until my abdomen and intestines quit twitching and flopping :P

 

I have used the tizanidine off and on since 2002 and asked for it again in 2009 when I learned my bones were still broken from a trauma in may 2008.... Tizanidine breaks easily into 1/4ths. It wears off in three hours. So if I wake up and can't get back to sleep at 3am, I can still take this and sleep for those precious early morning hours!! What sleep I can get between 5-10am is the most crucial for me to be in any way functional!! So having something I can take to help me fall asleep when I wake prematurely has been a godsend!

 

I have used it and gone off it and never seen any problems. I had been put on traditional sleep meds.... Including a disastrous run with ambien. I hated them all. But the muscle relaxer has been for me clean and easy .... No side effects. No withdrawal. No dependence. Maybe it can help someone else ....

Withdrawing meds: * lexapro 20mg (?) since maybe winter 2009-10. Self weaned this summer stopping in sept 2013 (I just cut in half for a few weeks, then took every other day then a couple x a week then nothing); *Xanax 0.5mg 4xday (dr cut by 50% twice in 16days oct 5-21st. By late Nov, dropped from 1/2 a 0.5mg tab tid to bid...by dec 1st, I was suicidal. Told dr I had to hold!) am still holding at 1/4 a 0.5mg tab bid since early dec; *sept 9 began buspar 7.5mg bid, raised to 15mg bid oct, nov 23 raised it 30mg am holding pm dose at 15mg. By Dec 11th I knew my liver was heading into failure again... Heart rapidly moving towards stroke levels. BP escalating rapidly towards stroke levels... BP moving past 200/130+ and heart rate hitting 200s everyday after buspar dose. Ribs were burning from being pushed so far out by the swollen liver plus itching severe- needed scissors to scratch deep enough but still itching 24/7. Checked for buspar symptoms I had them all plus a few underlying conditions making buspar contraindicated. For me buspar is literally toxic.

*buspar taper:

~dec 11th dropped from 30mg am/15mg pm to 15mg am/pm

~dec 17th pm dropped to 12.5mg am/pm

~dec 29th pm dropped to 10mg am/pm

~jan 5th pm dropped to 7.5mg am/pm

~jan 7th pm dropped to 5mg am/pm {dropped in only two days under pressure from alto to drop Now... Bc she then realized I was referring to significant organ failures and was dealing with serious side effects not merely inconvenient ones. My w/d side effects spiked}

~jan 8th I raised the pm dose to 6.25mg leaving the am dose at 5mg; stayed at 5mg am/6.25mg pm for a few days

~jan 12th pm dropped to 5mg am/pm

~jan 18th pm dropped to 5mg am/3.75mg pm; experienced a crushing spike in symptoms including liver irritation and "lightening storm headaches" among others. Currently at this dose.

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hi all. i have had issues with chronic insomnia since being a very young child. on/off for the past 2-3 yrs, i have been taking Benadryl as an otc sleep-aid for those nights when i have to go to work early the next morning and the previous night before i was not able to sleep at all. but it seems now that there are times when either my insomnia is so bad that the Benadryl does not work, or that Im starting to possibly getting used to the effects of the medication on my body? mind you that i also suffer from indoor and outdoor allergies year round and also use the Benadryl for my allergies, which at times can get severe. and i should mention that i do take breaks from using the Benadryl as a sleep-aid, because i know that it can cause re-bound insomnia if used for more than a few days at a time. so im interested in learning more natural ways of inducing sleep at night. i thought the post on using epsom salts in a hot bath was helpful. may have to try that one sometime. 

RavenHeart,

 

Could untreated allergies be causing your insomnia?  Have you seen an allergist and tried the usual non med remedies like nasal irrigation?  I am considering it for myself although it hasn't worked in the past. But many people swear by it.

 

Good luck in resolving your issues.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Yes, Benadryl can become ineffective. Please use search on this site to see our discussions about Benadryl.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am really light sensitive, but couldn't tolerate a sleep mask. I just got an expensive ($40) Tempurpedic one from Amazon and it is fabulous. Its major point of contact is the cheekbone, probably not good if you have sinus pain there, but nothing touches the eyes, so you can do your REM movements all you want. I am still not sleeping a long time...that's probably a few years away....but I sleep like a rock when I'm asleep.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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i noticed i only sleep for 4-6 hours no matter what time i start sleeping. like no i woke up at 12 midnight after falling asleep at past 7pm. how can i improve this?

 

Keeping regular hours allows your circadian rhythm to reset. Go to bed and get up at the same times each day.

 

Make sure your bedroom is very dark. The hours you are sleeping will gradually lengthen. (4-6 hours sleep is not bad for withdrawal syndrome.)

 

I am really light sensitive, but couldn't tolerate a sleep mask. I just got an expensive ($40) Tempurpedic one from Amazon and it is fabulous. Its major point of contact is the cheekbone, probably not good if you have sinus pain there, but nothing touches the eyes, so you can do your REM movements all you want. I am still not sleeping a long time...that's probably a few years away....but I sleep like a rock when I'm asleep.

 

Mmmm! The Amazon reviews say it's completely light-blocking. I might try this next. (Price seems to have come down a little, to about $30.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...

I think I'm going crazy and looking for someone to talk to. I have such profound sleep deprivation that I'm dreaming without sleeping. It is a scaring the hell out of me. I have this thing happening now where these conversations with who knows who are going on in my head when I try to sleep. I'm 31 weeks pregnant there for can not take meds to sleep. I have constant adrenalin surges when I'm trying to fall asleep and even the slightest noise puts my whole body into fight or flight. I have bags under my eyes and could just sit and cry. I saw a neurologist last week and had a eeg today. I'm sure it will show nothing. I gave like this electric buzzing noise in my head that sometimes gets so.loud it sounds like a telegram. Beep beep beep ect. Am I losing it? I feel like I should admit myself to another psych wARD. FOR WHAT THOUGH. .. so they can give me more poison. Or do I In fact need the poison at this time. I have this burning all over my body like fire ants are eating me. I see no way to help myself. I have found Noone in real life that understands what is happening. I'm so grateful I found you guys! No wonder I'm depressed right?

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I've had insomnia for years... but when I was tapering off diazepam it was awesomely the pits. I started to listen to the BBC on a pillow speaker (it can be put right under the pillow so only you hear it).. or more boringly tedious, a talk radio show that is of moderate interest.. more or less anyway, one to which I could sleep.. the reading voice, droning on and on really helps. I've used this 'trick' for several years now and my not sleeping time is somewhat occupied.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having so much trouble getting sleep Trauma.. zzzs are a challenge, and one of the most difficult WD Sx.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi Trauma

 

I really feel for you having struggled with intense insomnia for a long time myself. If it's any consolation I find the sleep medication doesn't work anyway. I have to take a heap of it to have any effect, don't feel rested in the morning (because it's not real sleep) and have a hangover

 

The best thing I did for myself was to stop trying to sleep and instead focussed on relaxing and resting. This approach helped to calm my adrenalin and hypervigilence which meant I slept more anyway. If I didn't sleep I was still more rested and less worked up about it which meant I felt more able to cope

 

I also bought some sleep headphones and listened to meditation tracks or sleep hypnosis apps via my phone. Similar to Skylers recommendations.

 

I know this isn't the magic bullet you are probably very desperate for but it's the only thing that has had any positive result for me when I've been desperate and too wired to sleep.

 

Take care

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 months later...

has anyone tried the supplement "cherry" ? being tart cherry and cherry, it contains high levels of bio active phytonutrients which are suppose to get you to stay asleep.

Keep getting it recommended to me at the organic store, but not sure about it

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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To search this site, type in your address bar or search box the words 'survivingantidepressants.org' followed by your search term. So when I did that I came across only one post here where 'tart cherry' was mentioned:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4894-lexy-tapering-off-effexor/?p=62033

 

My guess off the top of my head is that it might be pretty innocuous (non harming) and possibly not very effective for a nervous system gone nuts as a lot of us have, as far as promoting sleep goes.

 

As with anything you want to put in your mouth, start with a very small dose and see what happens.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Found these notes from several years ago about what's helped me to sleep: - In early discontinuation, occasional Benadryl use sometimes helped me sleep. Could use Benadryl only once or twice a week due to paradoxical reaction when I used it more than one night in a row (kept me awake) - Trazodone was a disaster due to cyp2d6 conflict - Lorazepam was a disaster due to hypersensitivity - Valerian was too strong, like lorazepam, it's a GABA-ergic - Melatonin .5mg (half a 1mg tablet) helped get me to sleep for a couple of hours about 50% of the time. Adding about 100mg magnesium citrate sometimes worked. - Half a Tylenol PM would work to get me to sleep about 4 hours, but could not use it often due to Benadryl-like antihistamine ingredient. - Extended-release melatonin .5mg (a quarter of a 2mg tablet) helped me sleep for about 4 hours a night 65% of the time. - 2.5mg DHEA (steroid-like GABA-A modulator) at night; improved sleep quality, duration (DHEA is not good for men)

 

Oh the dreaded insomnia has been plaguing me for a week.  When I wake up in the middle of the night, I try getting up, doing something else, reading in bed, eating if I get hungry- usually mile with a small piece of corn bread, or a hypnotherapy tape.  But lately, even the hypnosis tape hasn't worked.  I'm not sure what brought on this sudden insomnia.  I have been falling asleep, and sleeping 8 or more hours per night for a while now.

Last night I tried Trazodone.  Took it at 10pm. By 11pm I was still wide awake.  And this is after a several days of being sleep deprived.  So I took an Ambien on top of the Trazodone.  I slept through the night, but today I feel worse than when I don't sleep at all.  I'm a total zombie.  And the lack of sleep always seems to bring on crying spells.

I don't know if this insomnia is withdrawal or stress induced, but I'm just not sure how to handle it.  I tried Melatonin 3 mg, and it did absolutely nothing.  The only drug that seems to put me to sleep is Ambien, but then I feel more depressed the next day.

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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To search this site, type in your address bar or search box the words 'survivingantidepressants.org' followed by your search term. So when I did that I came across only one post here where 'tart cherry' was mentioned:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4894-lexy-tapering-off-effexor/?p=62033

 

My guess off the top of my head is that it might be pretty innocuous (non harming) and possibly not very effective for a nervous system gone nuts as a lot of us have, as far as promoting sleep goes.

 

As with anything you want to put in your mouth, start with a very small dose and see what happens.

 Yeah i know now to search things first, and i'm getting the gist that everything has to be taken carefully.

 

So really know one knows if it's useful or not...

 

As for the passion flower that person was taking..I don't know the way it works, but i sometimes have passion flower tea straight off the tree, and i'm sure it can't be too good for withdrawal because (for me) it 's almost like a high. It does make you feel very calm and relaxed and help you sleep, but the feeling seems to be a bit too elevated, like i can't imagine it being safe for a fucked central nervous system.

 

Anyway i think i will search for passion flower now 

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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Thanks for help thru this guys.

I think I may have got a name for it.

 

HYPNAGOGIC JERKS or Hypnic jerks for short

it's the same sensation I'm sure most people have felt when falling or tripping as you fall asleep. It's is not known wht this occurs in normal sleepers. Consult google for theories if you like.

 

It can become chronic and constant if person is sleep deprived. Stressed anxious etc. insomnia.......which am/was

 

It's relieved by things Dalsaan and Rhi say above.

 

I did a sleep hypnosis app by Glenn Harrold last night. It's free!

 

Earlier in the evening I had continuously fallen asleep on the sofa again and constantly jerked awake for maybe 3 hours.

 

I did the sleep hypnosis and got eight hours without waking once.

 

Dalsaan Rhi

Maybe you could put this in sleep section so it doesn't get buried. It will be there for those who follow.

Maybe it could be pinned.

 

Thanks again.

Seroxat 1994 then Citalopram 2000- 2014 quit Citalopram CT and descended into Hell with PAWS pollydrugged on following Mirtazapine 30 mgs Seroquel 150 mgs 

 Ativan 2 mgs June 2015 switched from Ativan to 20 mgs Valium Tapered-down slowly.

As of 15th March 17, I am benzo free. took 20 months to taper 20mgs Valium.

Seroquel tapered off 125mgs from 19 Sept 17 to 26 Dec. 17

current med 30mgs Mirtazapine

 

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There is a reason why 38 million prescriptions were written for Ambien in the US last year. Despite all its faults it works for most people. Downsides? Many. The reason most of us cant sleep even though we practice good sleep hygene is due to stress, anxiety, and depression.

 

Insomnia is my worse fear and most problematic symptom of my anxiety. Ive done all the techniques, taken all the OTC remedies and supplements and for me they are all junk, sugar pills. At the end of all trial and error is the old standby. Ambien. Someday I will solve anxiety maybe. Until then God bless Sonafi-Aventis for its invention.

2013 Jan-Mar (12 weeks) Cymbalta 60mg (way too activating)2013 Apr-May (8 weeks) Pristiq 50mg (partial response)2013 Jun-Aug (12 weeks) Lexapro (can't remember dose); caused muscle and joint painSep 13 to Jan 14 (20 weeks) Back to Prsitiq, muscle pain subsides but drug not working2014 Feb - Mar (8 weeks) Celexa 10mg (not even therapeutic dose), killed all depression and anxiety within 1 week but severe pain started within 5 days in back and lower extremities.2014 April (4 weeks) Effexor, worked like Celexa seamless transition, pain continuesThere was some Gabapentin, Buspar, Propranalol tossed there from time to time as well that did nothing.<p>Switched to Cymbalta 30mg on April 17. Dr directed stop on May 7th. I went down to 15mg within a week and felt OK, then to 10mg for 5 days and stopped.

Current Meds: 5-10mg Ambien, 1.5MG Xanax XR in 3 divided doses of .5MG each.  25mg Seroquel as a rescue drug for sleep.

 

Supplements:  Fish Oil, combination of Theratears Nutrition (designed for dry eye and is recommend by my ophthalmologist) and Arctic Pure.  Total EPA and DHA are 1540mg spilt between AM and PM.  NutNCology Magnesium Citrate, 170mg in the evening.  Twinlabs B-12 sublingual Dots, 500mcg (AM).

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Beat Anxiety,

 

As one who has found not sleeping to be h-ll and has greatly destroyed my life, in my opinon, if it has gotten to the point where the benefits of the sleeping medicine outweight the risks, taking it is a no brainer as long as you are fully informed of all the risks and it sounds like you are.

 

If I could find a med that kept me asleep on the pap machine which I need for my apnea, I would take it in a heartbeat.   The only one I would not consider is Seroquel.   Unfortunately, I haven't found anything which tells me I need another sleep study to see what is going on.

 

Hopefully, a cardiologist I am seeing today for a 24 hour blood pressure monitor who has gotten superb reviews from many patients can recommend a sleep doctor who is like her and treats people like human beings.

 

CS

 

PS - I also wondering if the problems I have had with ambien are due to the generic version.  Many people who had problems with generic do great with the brand.   Unfortunately, my insurance company makes you jump through a million hoops to get it and then of course, there would be the cost.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I did a sleep hypnosis app by Glenn Harrold last night. It's free!

 

Jody Whiteley has a sleep hypnosis youtube channel, also free, some of them up to 8 hours long.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I did a sleep hypnosis app by Glenn Harrold last night. It's free!

Can you please provide the link?  Thanks.

 

I personally love love love Victoria Gallagher of Hyptalk.com  I use her Deep Sleep hypnosis audio constantly.  It's only 26 minutes long, and sometimes I fall asleep within the first 10 min. I've listened to lots of hypno tapes, but I like voice, and her scripts the best. Also her audio sessions are very affordable.  Much much cheaper than going to a hypnotherapist.  And you certainly don't have one handy when you are trying to fall asleep. 

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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Found these notes from several years ago about what's helped me to sleep: - In early discontinuation, occasional Benadryl use sometimes helped me sleep. Could use Benadryl only once or twice a week due to paradoxical reaction when I used it more than one night in a row (kept me awake) - Trazodone was a disaster due to cyp2d6 conflict - Lorazepam was a disaster due to hypersensitivity - Valerian was too strong, like lorazepam, it's a GABA-ergic - Melatonin .5mg (half a 1mg tablet) helped get me to sleep for a couple of hours about 50% of the time. Adding about 100mg magnesium citrate sometimes worked. - Half a Tylenol PM would work to get me to sleep about 4 hours, but could not use it often due to Benadryl-like antihistamine ingredient. - Extended-release melatonin .5mg (a quarter of a 2mg tablet) helped me sleep for about 4 hours a night 65% of the time. - 2.5mg DHEA (steroid-like GABA-A modulator) at night; improved sleep quality, duration (DHEA is not good for men)

 

Oh the dreaded insomnia has been plaguing me for a week.  When I wake up in the middle of the night, I try getting up, doing something else, reading in bed, eating if I get hungry- usually mile with a small piece of corn bread, or a hypnotherapy tape.  But lately, even the hypnosis tape hasn't worked.  I'm not sure what brought on this sudden insomnia.  I have been falling asleep, and sleeping 8 or more hours per night for a while now.

Last night I tried Trazodone.  Took it at 10pm. By 11pm I was still wide awake.  And this is after a several days of being sleep deprived.  So I took an Ambien on top of the Trazodone.  I slept through the night, but today I feel worse than when I don't sleep at all.  I'm a total zombie.  And the lack of sleep always seems to bring on crying spells.

I don't know if this insomnia is withdrawal or stress induced, but I'm just not sure how to handle it.  I tried Melatonin 3 mg, and it did absolutely nothing.  The only drug that seems to put me to sleep is Ambien, but then I feel more depressed the next day.

 

Lilu,

 

I'm sorry that you are experiencing the insomnia. When I am tapering lexapro it manifests itself between 2 and 4 am. It is very frustrating and I hope that it will get better for you.

 

RU

Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been struggling with it for 25 years. While on ADs i could sleep pretty well but not being off of them. Ambien has not been working well and neither has Xanax. I have good sleep hygene, environment, etc, Melatonin, valarian, etc are all a joke as well as the typical OTC Benadryl/Unisom garbage, magnesium etc.

 

I have heard Taurine may help? I do have an Rx for low dose Seroquel and taking even 12.5mg will knock me into the next county. But then I cant get out bed and am hung over until noon. I'm looking for a less invasive option. Ambien has always been great but not in the anxious state I'm in currently. I'm doing mindfulness mediatation and that helps but i pop wide awake at 3AM. Nothing to help depression and anxiety are helpful when you are sleep deprived. One thing I am going to avoid is increasing dosages of Rx meds.

2013 Jan-Mar (12 weeks) Cymbalta 60mg (way too activating)2013 Apr-May (8 weeks) Pristiq 50mg (partial response)2013 Jun-Aug (12 weeks) Lexapro (can't remember dose); caused muscle and joint painSep 13 to Jan 14 (20 weeks) Back to Prsitiq, muscle pain subsides but drug not working2014 Feb - Mar (8 weeks) Celexa 10mg (not even therapeutic dose), killed all depression and anxiety within 1 week but severe pain started within 5 days in back and lower extremities.2014 April (4 weeks) Effexor, worked like Celexa seamless transition, pain continuesThere was some Gabapentin, Buspar, Propranalol tossed there from time to time as well that did nothing.<p>Switched to Cymbalta 30mg on April 17. Dr directed stop on May 7th. I went down to 15mg within a week and felt OK, then to 10mg for 5 days and stopped.

Current Meds: 5-10mg Ambien, 1.5MG Xanax XR in 3 divided doses of .5MG each.  25mg Seroquel as a rescue drug for sleep.

 

Supplements:  Fish Oil, combination of Theratears Nutrition (designed for dry eye and is recommend by my ophthalmologist) and Arctic Pure.  Total EPA and DHA are 1540mg spilt between AM and PM.  NutNCology Magnesium Citrate, 170mg in the evening.  Twinlabs B-12 sublingual Dots, 500mcg (AM).

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BeatAnxiety,

 

Out of extreme desperation in not being able to stay asleep on my pap machine, I have taken Temazepam on a PRN basis with mediocre success.   However, having had the same failures as you regarding sleep remedies, that qualifies as pretty good.

 

Unfortunately, if I take it more than once a week, I am not as successful with it as I seem to develop a pretty quick tolerance.

 

Might be worth a shot with this qualifier - proceed very carefully.

 

By the way, h--ll would freeze over before I ever touched Seroquel.  In spite of the extreme risks of sleep deprivation, it doesn't sound like that med even has benefits as a sleep med from what I have read.

 

CS

 

PS - To the moderators and administrators - I know this is a board for getting off of meds.   But I hope in light of the fact that severe sleep deprivation is obviously not a good thing, it is ok to offer suggestions for rescue sleep meds with the appropriate cautions.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Apart from reinstatement of a previously stopped drug to reduce withdrawal, we don't recommend medications/drugs for symptoms including insomnia.

 

Here is a link which contains some non-drug ideas of how to manage insomnia, scroll down to get to the sleep problems section:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

 

Some people do find that taurine helps.  I took it for a while and it stopped my early morning racing thoughts.  We have  threads related to it here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5759-taurine-for-heart-arrhythmia/?hl=taurine

 

and here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2670-taurine-l-taurine-amino-acid/?hl=taurine

 

I used to pop wide awake during the early hours and not be able to get back to sleep.  Quickly taking taurine and another magnesium would sometimes allow me to go back to sleep.  Now I still wake up often, but manage to go back to sleep without taking anything by doing a little breathing/chanting meditation for about 2 minutes.  I silently say the words peace and calm in time with my breathing, it seems to stop the out of control thoughts and calms me enough so that sleep can take over again.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Is it common to all of a sudden have sleep issues 5 months into withdrawal? This is new for me & I also have a "bounding" heartbeat. Sometimes with anxiety/panic. And it makes it harder to do things & concentrate. Pray to God the intensity of it is short lived. Been 3 weeks... Thanks

On SSRI's/SNRI's for @ 25 years, first Prozac 18 years

Took Pristiq last 3 years, had increase in severe migraines

Started tapering Pristiq 100 mg every other day, was ok

Tried Topamax for 2 weeks, but side effects intolerable

Continued taper, able to tolerate 100mg every 4th day

At 6 weeks cut 100mg tab to 50mg & had bad reaction

Only taking 25mg sumatriptan or 0.5mg Ativan as needed

4 weeks later withdrawal worse, where do I go from here?

Stabilizing on 4mg Prozac, NO triptans, NO Ativan

3.6mg hold since June 18

 

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Found these notes from several years ago about what's helped me to sleep:

- In early discontinuation, occasional Benadryl use sometimes helped me sleep. Could use Benadryl only once or twice a week due to paradoxical reaction when I used it more than one night in a row (kept me awake)

- Trazodone was a disaster due to cyp2d6 conflict

- Lorazepam was a disaster due to hypersensitivity

- Valerian was too strong, like lorazepam, it's a GABA-ergic

- Melatonin .5mg (half a 1mg tablet) helped get me to sleep for a couple of hours about 50% of the time. Adding about 100mg magnesium citrate sometimes worked.

- Half a Tylenol PM would work to get me to sleep about 4 hours, but could not use it often due to Benadryl-like antihistamine ingredient.

- Extended-release melatonin .5mg (a quarter of a 2mg tablet) helped me sleep for about 4 hours a night 65% of the time.

- 2.5mg DHEA (steroid-like GABA-A modulator) at night; improved sleep quality, duration (DHEA is not good for men)

 

I am so so tired. If I don't take any meds, I'm exhausted and angry and have crying spells from the sleep deprivation. If I take meds, I sleep, but feel exactly the same way the next day - a total zombie. Drowsy all day long, barely able to function.  Last night I was so drowsy, I couldn't even read, I just wanted to close my eyes. And still I couldn't fall asleep!  I went to bed at 9pm, and by 11 pm I was still awake. I just gave up and took 5mg Ambien and .25 mg of Klonopin.  I slept for 8 hours, but today I feel like I hadn't slept at all.  I've tried Benadryl and the results are inconsistent. I took melatonin last night at 9pm, but two hours later I was still awake. I've tried Trazadone, and that also makes me feel like a zombie the next day. What is cyp2d6 conflict?

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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Found these notes from several years ago about what's helped me to sleep:

- In early discontinuation, occasional Benadryl use sometimes helped me sleep. Could use Benadryl only once or twice a week due to paradoxical reaction when I used it more than one night in a row (kept me awake)

- Trazodone was a disaster due to cyp2d6 conflict

- Lorazepam was a disaster due to hypersensitivity

- Valerian was too strong, like lorazepam, it's a GABA-ergic

- Melatonin .5mg (half a 1mg tablet) helped get me to sleep for a couple of hours about 50% of the time. Adding about 100mg magnesium citrate sometimes worked.

- Half a Tylenol PM would work to get me to sleep about 4 hours, but could not use it often due to Benadryl-like antihistamine ingredient.

- Extended-release melatonin .5mg (a quarter of a 2mg tablet) helped me sleep for about 4 hours a night 65% of the time.

- 2.5mg DHEA (steroid-like GABA-A modulator) at night; improved sleep quality, duration (DHEA is not good for men)

 

I am so so tired. If I don't take any meds, I'm exhausted and angry and have crying spells from the sleep deprivation. If I take meds, I sleep, but feel exactly the same way the next day - a total zombie. Drowsy all day long, barely able to function.  Last night I was so drowsy, I couldn't even read, I just wanted to close my eyes. And still I couldn't fall asleep!  I went to bed at 9pm, and by 11 pm I was still awake. I just gave up and took 5mg Ambien and .25 mg of Klonopin.  I slept for 8 hours, but today I feel like I hadn't slept at all.  I've tried Benadryl and the results are inconsistent. I took melatonin last night at 9pm, but two hours later I was still awake. I've tried Trazadone, and that also makes me feel like a zombie the next day. What is cyp2d6 conflict?

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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Found these notes from several years ago about what's helped me to sleep:

- In early discontinuation, occasional Benadryl use sometimes helped me sleep. Could use Benadryl only once or twice a week due to paradoxical reaction when I used it more than one night in a row (kept me awake)

- Trazodone was a disaster due to cyp2d6 conflict

- Lorazepam was a disaster due to hypersensitivity

- Valerian was too strong, like lorazepam, it's a GABA-ergic

- Melatonin .5mg (half a 1mg tablet) helped get me to sleep for a couple of hours about 50% of the time. Adding about 100mg magnesium citrate sometimes worked.

- Half a Tylenol PM would work to get me to sleep about 4 hours, but could not use it often due to Benadryl-like antihistamine ingredient.

- Extended-release melatonin .5mg (a quarter of a 2mg tablet) helped me sleep for about 4 hours a night 65% of the time.

- 2.5mg DHEA (steroid-like GABA-A modulator) at night; improved sleep quality, duration (DHEA is not good for men)

 

I am so so tired. If I don't take any meds, I'm exhausted and angry and have crying spells from the sleep deprivation. If I take meds, I sleep, but feel exactly the same way the next day - a total zombie. Drowsy all day long, barely able to function.  Last night I was so drowsy, I couldn't even read, I just wanted to close my eyes. And still I couldn't fall asleep!  I went to bed at 9pm, and by 11 pm I was still awake. I just gave up and took 5mg Ambien and .25 mg of Klonopin.  I slept for 8 hours, but today I feel like I hadn't slept at all.  I've tried Benadryl and the results are inconsistent. I took melatonin last night at 9pm, but two hours later I was still awake. I've tried Trazadone, and that also makes me feel like a zombie the next day. What is cyp2d6 conflict?

 

Can't answer your question but wanted to comment on the issue of taking meds vs. not doing it because I have experienced the same dilemma.  What finally convinced me to stop looking at meds is the I listened to a pocast of a progressive sleep specialist who said that taking meds does not lead to restorative sleep and when brain are scanned of people on sleep med, they look like someone who is unconcious.   It really made me take note.

 

When you wake up, you might want to consider finding a fun activity even if it violates every sleep hygiene rule that exists.  Last night, I chose to listen to a beach boys video and ended up getting two more hours of sleep.  So much for the theory that you shouldn't listen to active music.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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CYP2D6 is a CYP450 isoenzyme that does the first phase of liver metabolism for many psychoactive drugs. If you are taking other drugs that are processed through it, or if you are a slow metabolizer with that enzyme (which you would know via genetic testing, like Genomind as an example), it can increase the blood levels and the unpredictability of the involved drug(s).

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Can't answer your question but wanted to comment on the issue of taking meds vs. not doing it because I have experienced the same dilemma.  What finally convinced me to stop looking at meds is the I listened to a pocast of a progressive sleep specialist who said that taking meds does not lead to restorative sleep and when brain are scanned of people on sleep med, they look like someone who is unconcious.   It really made me take note.

When you wake up, you might want to consider finding a fun activity even if it violates every sleep hygiene rule that exists.  Last night, I chose to listen to a beach boys video and ended up getting two more hours of sleep.  So much for the theory that you shouldn't listen to active music.

Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I feel that my sleep problems post withdrawal are psychological and anxiety based.  I do think the anxiety and extreme reactivity and panic is related to withdrawal.  However, once I start using meds to fall asleep, then the fear and anticipation become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet, what I don't understand is why is it I can't fall asleep when I feel so incredibly tired and sleepy that I can't keep my eyes open for anything, and yet sleep doesn't come. Even when I'm not worried or anxious about anything else.  I guess I'm just not aware of my anxiety about not being able to fall asleep without drugs?  But it almost feels like the minute I get a drug like Ambien into my system, it creates an immediate rebound affect. All schools of thought say that it's impossible to experience addiction to a drug just after taking it one time. It's hard to tell if it's psychological or physiological.  Maybe both.   

I know that when I quit Lexapro cold-turkey, the withdrawal insomnia started immediately and was purely a physiological reaction to the lack of drug in my system. I wasn't anxious or thinking about some problem. I just couldn't fall asleep. Hypnosis tapes were completely ineffective then.  Now it feels like it's a combination of factors.  What I find really hard NOT to do, is to resist not being able to fall asleep. I get frustrated, upset, annoyed. I do all the things I'm not supposed to, like keep looking at the clock. I hate being awake at night. Hate it hate it hate it!  I resist, and it persists.  It's a vicious circle.

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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CYP2D6 is a CYP450 isoenzyme that does the first phase of liver metabolism for many psychoactive drugs. If you are taking other drugs that are processed through it, or if you are a slow metabolizer with that enzyme (which you would know via genetic testing, like Genomind as an example), it can increase the blood levels and the unpredictability of the involved drug(s).

Based on this article, it says that both Clonazepam and Zolpidem (Ambien) are CYP3A4 substrates and are metabolized by the same enzyme. And it says "many CYP3A4 substrates have substantial toxicity, and some patients may develop severe toxicity when CYP3A4 inhibitors are taken concurrently". - See more at: http://www.pharmacytimes.com/publications/issue/2008/2008-09/2008-09-8687#sthash.HMcgcIOS.dpuf

So while I haven't taken any cyp3a4 inhibitors, like you said, I may be a slow metabolizer. What I don't understand is why is it that 10 years ago when I first started taking antidepressants, I could take a full 10mg of Ambien and have no hangover the next day at all. And now, it's guaranteed zombie-ville!

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

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