EternalOptimist: 17 days on generic remeron, want off

[EternalOptimist]

Hello:

I survived c/t Xanax w/d 9 yeas ago ( with short term use of few other meds I quickly tapered from during the first 7 months off low dose Xanax use).

 

Recently went into severe anxiety then depression and insomnia for few months. Put on low dose lamictal for 9 days along with mirtazapine, now 17 days, in hospital. Want off this drug too tho concerned about returning to depression and insomnia. Not taken lamictal for 7 days now. Never tolerated psych meds well and never had to take one for depression til now. Also have chronic health condition and no Sprng chicken!

 

Thought I'd cut a bit of the MIT. Tonight, maybe a quarter. Any suggestions?

Thanks

EO

[Petunia]

Hi EO,

 

Welcome to SA and thank you for posting an introduction.

 

I'm a little unclear about your recent drug history, it sounds like you haven't taken any meds since Xanax 9 years ago, but only very recently 17 days ago, were put on Lamictal and Remeron while in hospital.  But stopped taking the Lamictal.  Were you hospitalized for the depression?  Are you having any symptoms at the moment?

 

Are you still in hospital?

 

We generally suggest tapering medications by no more than 10% at a time, but because you have only been on it 17 days, you may be able to come off it faster, someone else with more experience may be able to advise you.

 

Here is our topic for tapering Remeron:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/?hl=%2Btips+%2Bfor+%2Btapering+%2Boff+%2Bmirtazapine

 

But once you clarify your situation, we will be able to suggest something, you will find a lot of friendly, helpful support here.

 

Petu.

[EternalOptimist]

Yes, hospitalized for depression following severe anxiety and insomnia.

Cut mirtazapine last night about 1/4 .feel w/d. Fear the depression returning

AndAd the anxst and insomnia. Weak, shaky, difficulty typing on here due to cognitive effort.

Usually it is the anxiety that brings me down. Trying to hold on. Thanks

[Meimeiquest]

Do you take any supplements? Have you read the sleep and anxiety info under Symptoms? What are your other meds and diagnoses? Welcome! We're pulling for you!

[EternalOptimist]

Been on and off supplements. Difficulty reading and concentrating so not read anything more on here. Have dx of CFIDS or M.E. as it is known in Europe. Have long history of anxiety bouts then gets better. This time not resolving as quickly as before, maybe cause I am getting older. Not taking anything else. Know I have many reasons to live yet struggle to feel hopeful. Meds have never been my first line of support and find I don't tolerate them well. The fear became overwhelming. Fear of not getting myself back. Going on too much, .depression can lift and need to believe that, again. thanks

Not sure what to do bout the med tonight. Thanks

[mammaP]

Hello Eternaloptomist. I'm sorry you are feeling so bad and had to go to hospital. It is a terrible 

condition, my daughter had it as a teenager and know how badly it affected her, I feel for you. 

If you are feeling withdrawal I would take the same dose as last night if I were you, and give it

a few days to see how you are affected. Hopefully you will settle and be able to taper faster

than we usually recommend. Usually after just 2 weeks it could be fine just stopping but you

have already felt withdrawal from cutting by 25% so it may be best to taper. 

 

I hope that you feel better very soon. We have a whole section on coping with anxiety and

depression naturally, I hope it will be helpful for you. You can find it here. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

[EternalOptimist]

MammaP

Thank u.

Did your daughter have CFS? If so, she is well now? Hope so. What helped if I am on the right track.?

Thnkz for your response and link.

[Altostrata]

Why did you go off the Lamictal? What was the dosage?

 

Did you take any drugs before going into the hospital?

 

Given it's only 17 days, I suppose 25% cuts mirtazapine are reasonable.

[EternalOptimist]

only attempted to take a little seroquel (made heart pound) and trazadone but didnt' take more than 1 night and only a tiny amt.  

Lamictal was horrid for me.  

Have felt significant w/d like sx today.  Cant' help but wonder if benzo w/d has made it harder to take and tolerate and/or come off any other med.

Too, the CFS probably interferes.  Guess no easy way out.  Mornings are so difficult, feel so brain/head sick and raw.  Others have similar issue with 

mornings being so difficult?

Thanks and Best

EO

[mammaP]

MammaP

Thank u.

Did your daughter have CFS? If so, she is well now? Hope so. What helped if I am on the right track.?

Thnkz for your response and link.

Yes my daughter became ill with CFS after a nasty bout of glandular fever. She was 14 and was ill for 4/5

years before starting to get better. She is 28 now, has 2 children and is fine. It was very hard because she was 

blacking out and almost bed bound. As a mother I was tempted to let her stay in bed and nurse her like only a 

mother could but I knew she had to physically move her body to keep it healthy. I encouraged her to get up every

morning and take a bath or shower. Some days that was all she could manage. but it had her moving and helped.

 

When she had good days she would be like any teenager and want to go out shopping and out with friends but just 

one day of that and she would be back in bed for weeks. She learned that she had to pace herself, and thankfully

she got better. 

 

 

only attempted to take a little seroquel (made heart pound) and trazadone but didnt' take more than 1 night and only a tiny amt.  

Lamictal was horrid for me.  

Have felt significant w/d like sx today.  Cant' help but wonder if benzo w/d has made it harder to take and tolerate and/or come off any other med.

Too, the CFS probably interferes.  Guess no easy way out.  Mornings are so difficult, feel so brain/head sick and raw.  Others have similar issue with 

mornings being so difficult?

Thanks and Best

EO

It seems to be very common amongst us, I say I'm allergic to mornings! Most of us seem to be better in the evenings.

 

Some people react badly to meds and/or coming off them and others seem to be fine. Sadly you are one who reacts.

Hopefully you will soon feel better. Withdrawal comes i waves followed by windows when things are better. You can

read about that here.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

[EternalOptimist]

I cut little less than a 1/4 of the 15 mg tablet again, 2nd day, feel soooo weak and almost breathless.  

head pressure severe and difficulty with visual acuity...maybe it's just so hard cause of the previous benzo w/d and the cFS...

does anyone else out there suffer such severe sx from small cuts?

and are there many others who have such intolerance to these meds?

thanks

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Is mirtazapine soluble in milk cause I read where it is not very water soluble? Thnx

[EternalOptimist]

MammaP

Just saw your reply. Thank u. Make myself do daily routine too but didn't pace...started an intense relapse then into this other realm ... So glad she is doing well now. :-)

[Altostrata]

You can make a liquid with mirtazapine. Please read the link Petu posted for you.

[EternalOptimist]

Really having hard time. 3rd day of cutting 1/4 15 mg pill of mirtazapine. Too ill to learn how to titrate now.

Is this normal to be worse 3rd day of cut?

Thnx

[Altostrata]

There's a reason we recommend gradual decreases.

 

If you won't learn how to taper slower, you'll have to deal with withdrawal symptoms. No telling how long they'll last. See the Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions.

[EternalOptimist]

Th x...friend ordered mortar and pestle other day...just so overwhelmed doing the simplest of things.

Thought since was on such short time wouldn't be so hard. Did read the explanation tho didn't understand the last part.

Will get help with it.

[Altostrata]

You don't need a mortar and pestle. You can crush a cut-up tablet with the back of a spoon or the bottom of a jar.

[EternalOptimist]

Ok. Then I need a syringe with ml on it? What kind of container do I need to put the water in? This is where I got confused.

Thank you. My cognitive isn't so good right now..

[Altostrata]

Read http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

or ask a friend to read it and help you with the instructions.

[EternalOptimist]

Does anyone here use benadryl or visteril or atarax for anxiety/sleep?

If so, what is your experience?

 

thanks

[wulfgar]

I have tried Theralene. An antihistamine. It gives a little improvement to anxiety and to sleep. Ive tried Propavan for sleep. Also gives a little improvement. A friend gets knocked out from propavan. We are all different.

 

Mirtazapine is a quite strong antihistamine though, so you are adding up on those receptors if you add an extra antihistamine. There are cases where withdrawing from high dose antihistamines causes problems.

[EternalOptimist]

Good day.

Anyone here home bound with other chronic illness along with the anxiety n depression and w/d?

I am 65 and am unable to get about well.

I don't know how much r the Sx related to which condition.

I was doing decently til anxiety hit last Fall then the depression.

Thanks

Best

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Thank you Wuldfar for explaining how antihistamines can affect w/d ESP from mitrazapine.

Appreciate it.

Best

[EternalOptimist]

Good day.

Anyone here home bound with other chronic illness along with the anxiety n depression and w/d?

I am 65 and am unable to get about well.

I don't know how much r the Sx related to which condition.

I was doing decently til anxiety hit last Fall then the depression.

Thanks

Best

EO

[Altostrata]

If you're on Medicare, you can ask your doctor to write a prescription for compounded liquid mirtazapine to taper. Take this to a compounding pharmacy (Walgreens has some). Medicare will pay for it.

[EternalOptimist]

Thnk u. Have HMO with Medicare...will ask.

[EternalOptimist]

Read and attempted to reply and offer solace to 2 members and lost my replies, darn.

Read where coming off fast can produce llong term w/d Sx. Since I started tapering 18 days on mitrazapine,

It wouldn't be easy but could taper little faster. Now I am concerned c, these long term effects esp since

It took years to improve from fast w/d of Xanax and I am really struggling.

 

Too, what do others do for sleep when too ill to get up and move about?

 

My heart goes out to all who suffer on and coming off these drugs.

 

Think I am a poor metabolizer, like others, so how to manage stress, anxiety, depression, insomnia

In the future? Any feedback?

[wulfgar]

I would try elevating your upper body in bed daytime. That is important for cardiovascular health and i believe also better for sleep.

 

Activate arms, knitting, etc. Get a hand grip trainer, or a stress ball. Do arm raises front, to the sides. Then add a little weight to it a week or two later. Make a training schedule for that, with increasing amount of time each day/week. Anything that gets the blood flowing a little. Preferably in the morning, and after lunch. It does not mater how much weight or how long. Do whats feels ok.

 

Light. Make sure to turn on lights in the morning and have quite bright throughout the day and dim down the lights at 18.00. Good for getting melatonin production in your body at the correct time in the evening.

 

Activate your brain. Reading, sudoko, wordfeud (online scrabble) etc. Keeping your mind off worrying stuff as much as possible as it raises stress levels and those levels tends to stay on through the night. Schedule "worrying time" when you google/think about taper, like half an hour, twice a day, and if you get thoughts about stuff off-hours write them down and handle on the worrying time.

 

Sleep sanitation. Make sure its quiet, dark, comfy, and the correct temperature for you. A few people like a little light on. Find whats best.

 

Sleep restriction. Try not to sleep for to long. For each hour extra you try to sleep, the day gets one hour shorter, and it is during the day you accumulate your need for sleep.

 

Its the many little things that adds up for sleep. I wish there were a big one thing that helps. Exercise is one that people holds to be so great. I can not find any science that confirms this. My experience is the opposite. The days when i exercise my sleep gets worse. I think elevating your heart rate only slightly for a while, pausing, repeat is what we are meant to be doing during the day.

 

This is my gathered knowledge.

[EternalOptimist]

So ill this am...so weak...can barely get on here...near panic as don't see way out.

How much to do w/ w/d or the Med itself?

Will read last post when can, thanks

Can't do hospital again,

Really sick in a way I've never been before,

[EternalOptimist]

So ill this am...so weak...can barely get on here...near panic as don't see way out.

I started tapering from 15 mg mitrazapine 18 days after being put on it in hospital and now am on c. 9-10 mg or so.

This is 3rd day from last cut. Have not gotten help yet w/ how to water titrate as need to get someone to help me.

 

How much to do w/ w/d or the Med itself?

Can't do hospital again,

Really sick in a way I've never been before,

 

My heart goes out to all here.

Best

----------

Am Xanax survivor, really horrid w/d 9 yrs ago. Was doing ok til last Fall.

Have dx of CFS/ME...

[mammaP]

I'm sorry you are feeling so sick today EO.  I wish I had the answers and could make it better for us all.

I am disabled and rarely went anywhere, was so sick I couldn't concentrate on anything, had no motivation

and barely slept. Constantly exhausted and memory shot. Then I realised it was the meds that were making

everything so much worse than they should be. Started to taper and felt better as time went by. 

I am still disabled and always will be but I can cope with it right now. 

 

Depression was terrible when I hit withdrawal symptoms, but it did subside. I almost went to hospital at one stage 

but knew I would be given more drugs. Now I am so thankful I didn't. 

 

It's very difficult to know what is causing which symptoms and when to call a doctor. I feel for you, and hope you feel

much better very soon, or at least as well as you can be. 

[Petunia]

Hi EO,

I moved your post in the tapering section to your own thread here because it was related to your own general circumstances.

 

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time, as its been only 3 days since you made a cut, its not surprising you would be feeling unwell at the moment.  Perhaps you could slow down on your tapering and hold for a while.

 

Feelings and anxiety and panic are common withdrawal symptoms, they will pass.  Try not to let them cloud your thinking, there is a way out, you are taking it by slowly and safely tapering.

 

When you feel up to it, have a look through our section on non-drug methods of managing emotional symptoms here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

Do what you can to stay calm, you will get through this.

 

Petu.

[EternalOptimist]

MammaP:  Thank you again for your reply.  I appreciate that.    You went thru tremendous stress and can report now doing better.  That's a blessing tho 

sorry u r still disabled.  I wonder if it's from med use and w/d or added health issue(s)?  None of my business.  I'm wondering cause of being on disability for 24 years with M.E./CFIDS.  That's a picnic compared to this garbage LOL.  Not minimizing the suffering for anyone going thru chronic illness.  Just my opinion given my experiences.  I fought so hard not to end up on a med again and started tapering quickly but, oh, seems the brain remembers the old days.  Hope I can learn to handle anxiety issues better in the future.  Scary thought so I'm trying not to think of that now.  Spent 20 years in therapy working on anxiety issues via psychodynamic work. Know WHY I have it but, obviously, not been able to manage it better.  Triggers happen.  Need to meditate and use mindfulness.  Tried today for a few minutes and find I fear it but fought thru the fear and low and behold after finally giving in, someone drove up and honked the horn.  Go figure!    I rambled.  Oh well.  

Did you read Peter Breggins book?

Best

EO 

 

Petu:  Thank you for updating me on moving my post to the tapering section. Makes sense.  I'm barely functioning in the mornings.  Now at 6:10p.m. am more present to type and am on laptop which works better than the Ipad which changes words to suit itself as some of my posts look weird cause I didn't edit them.

Thank you for reassuring me the sx are not surprising for 3rd day of a cut.  Thank you for the link on non-drug methods of managing emotions. Calm you say, eh?  Ah, to find calm in the first place.  Seems elusive!  LOL  Truly, though, I do appreciate your suggesting to stay calm as I will work on that, and, as you say "get through this".  again.  

BTW, Congratulations on being med free as of last May 7th.  Thumbs up! 

Best 

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Petu:  correction, I meant "moving my post from Tapering section to here"....Glad I caught that.

[EternalOptimist]

Hello:

It's morning here in  sunny California (tho we need rain).  

I believe it helpful to meditate and yet have such fear of it.  Do others?

If so, how do you cope with that fear and have you successfully learned to meditate?

Thanks

EO