Daniel0708: A Happy, Hopeful New Member

[daniel0708]

Hello,

 

My name is Daniel and I am 28 years old. I'd like to introduce myself and learn more about the people on this forum.

 

I've been involved in the mental health system since 2011 (age 25). During that time some extremely traumatic things happened to me and as a result I have been somewhat debilitated for the past three years. I am just beginning to awake out of my slumber and to realize that I am not a permanently disabled mental patient. It wasn't always like this, though. 

 

I have worked with a slew of therapists, psychologists, case workers, and psychiatrists who have all told me that I would be medicated for the rest of my life. I don't point the finger at them. Actually, I am thankful for much of the good that the mental health system and its practitioners have done for me, as I doubt I'd be alive today were it not for psychiatric medications. However, the original crisis that prompted me to go on medication in the first place (I was basically medication free for the first 25 years of my life) has resolved itself, and I am feeling a tremendous amount of relief psychologically. As a result, I no longer feel the need to be on medication, and have gradually taken steps to taper myself off the cocktail of meds that has worked so successfully for me in the last three years. This cocktail includes the maximum dose of Lexapro (20mg), which I have effectively tapered to 0 as of last month. I'm feeling fine, by the way. The remaining two medications I take are not antidepressants at all, but rather are popular antipsychotics: Abilify (15mg) and Depakote (750mg). It is hard because I feel I have found the minimum therapeutic dose for these medications and have never been able to successfully taper them below the current doses, yet I have never tried tapering by small amounts (10% or less) at a time. I have always started with a 33% or 50% taper, which inevitably leads to withdrawal symptoms. I've recently gotten hold of a copy of Dr. Glenmuller's "The Antidepressant Solution", which has convinced me that I am not facing a biological disorder but rather an "addiction" to the medication due to fear of experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

 

There are several reasons why I wish to get off psych meds completely. First of all, as someone who has traveled to other countries and as someone who wishes to eventually build an international career, taking medications poses serious problems.  A) the safety of psychiatric medications overseas is questionable, most countries do not allow you to bring a long term supply of these medications into the country, and C) the stigma of being recognized and "found out" as a psych patient when applying for a job, etc. Second of all, I used to be a healthy, though skinny male weighing 155 pounds. Thanks to psych meds and a poor diet, I now weigh almost 230 pounds. I want to get my image and more importantly, my health back. I feel it is simply impossible to lose the kind of weight I want to lose while being on medications that are recognized for chronic weight gain. Getting off the Lexapro was a huge victory for me. Finally, I want to get off the drugs because I've allowed my self-image to become tainted while taking them. I self-identify as a psych patient, and thus as someone who could never attract someone of the opposite sex, and generally as someone who is not desirable, either as a friend or as a romantic interest. These reasons and more are the reasons I want to become drug free.

 

For the interests of space and time I don't want to type much more. I simply wanted to say "Hello" and to say I empathize with those of you trying to escape from antidepressants, as well as those of you who aren't. Life is hard to deal with. I look forward to reading more of your posts and to gain insight from what I read. Thanks.

[mammaP]

Hello Daniel, welcome to SA.  First well done with tapering the other drugs. I see it is only a month since

you stopped Lexapro. I'm glad that you are fine and not having any withdrawal symptoms but would

suggest holding for a few weeks before tapering the antipsychotics, This will give your nervous system

chance to stabilise before starting another taper. 

 

It looks like you have done your homework and are ready for the next leg of the journey off psychiatric

drugs, you will get there and be free of them eventually. 

Here is a link to important topics in the tapering forum that contains much useful information you may be

interested in.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum-and-faq/

[Petunia]

Hi Daniel,

Welcome and thank you for sharing your story.  Congratulations for managing to come off several drugs already, none of this is easy.  I agree with MammaP that it would be a good idea to wait for a while so your nervous system has a chance to completely settle down before you taper again.  Sometimes, withdrawal symptoms can kick in several months after the drug has been stopped this is what happened to me when I came off Lexapro, I was ok for about 2 - 3 months, then the withdrawals started, unfortunately, I didn't know that's what it was.

 

If you do get some withdrawal symptoms, then its possible to reinstate and start a slower taper, but lets just be positive for now and hopefully you will be fine.  How long were you taking the Lexapro for?

 

Here are our tips for tapering off Abilify:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1896-tips-for-tapering-off-abilify-aripiprazole/?hl=abilify

 

We don't yet have any information about how to safely taper from Depakote, but its coming soon.

 

Do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

Petu.

 

 

[daniel0708]

Hi Petu,

 

I have been taking Lexapro for two years. My doctor substituted it for Prozac, which was a complete disaster for me. My dad responded well to Lexapro so it was thought that I would respond well to it too. I was going to call my psychiatrist tomorrow and ask for a taper, but seeing what you guys have written makes me think it would be wise to wait a while longer before starting another taper, especially since I went down from 10mg of Lexapro to 0 overnight. I've been fine for the past month, but I've been warned that psychosis may kick in again if I withdraw too suddenly from the meds. Thanks for your input!

[Rhiannon]

Agree that you need to take a break after the quick tapers and CT that you've done. You may end up having problems from those things--very often WD symptoms don't kick in right away but kick in after weeks or months. I'd wait a couple of months to be sure you're out of the woods before starting any other tapers.

[daniel0708]

Hi all,

 

I posted an introduction here for the very first time exactly 10 months ago today. I was hoping, at that time, to be completely tapered off of psychiatric drugs by the beginning of 2015. Not only am I not close to this goal now, but I have actually regressed to higher doses. I currently take 15mg of Abilify and 1000mg of Depakote. I tried self-tapering at a rate that seemed reasonable but in reality was way too fast and hard on the nervous system. This led to a major depressive episode about four months ago. I am convinced now that reducing the dose by 1% to 5% every four to six weeks is about as fast as I can expect to go and keep my nervous system intact. I look forward to reading more about how I can make this happen.

 

Today I was tested for my Depakote blood levels. The normal range is 50.0 - 150.0 mcg/mL. My level is 26.2. As a mood stabilizer, there is not enough of it in my blood to even be effective for its stated purpose, which is another reason why it is a complete waste of time. My psychiatrist, upon seeing this test result, will undoubtedly suggest increasing the dose radically so that my mood will improve. But I fear this will be a slippery slope that will only set in stone my dependence on this mood stabilizer for life. Once I go up to 2000mg it will be near impossible to taper off this drug.

 

I currently don't take any antidepressants. I only take the mood stabilizer and the antipsychotic. My label for years has been "psychotic NOS", meaning they don't even know what I have and the psychiatrist told me that the diagnosis is not even important. I hope to live drug free in the future but I no longer have unrealistic goals about getting off drugs in a year's time. My body has been on psych drugs for years so it only makes sense that it would take many years to get off of them.

 

Looking forward to reading threads about how people are practically tapering the doses of their medications. (I think even 10% reductions are far too radical for me).

 

daniel0708

[Petunia]

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for coming back with an update, I joined your new post with your old thread so that everything is kept together.

 

I'm sorry that you had to increase your dose, how are you feeling now?

 

Some people really do need to taper very slowly to keep the nervous system stable, you may be one of those people, here are some threads which may be helpful:

 

The slowness of slow tapers 

Also see our topic on micro-tapers http://survivinganti...or-5-decreases/

[daniel0708]

Hi Petu,

 

Sorry about that! I should have merged my thread into one. Thanks for doing that for me.

 

I am not feeling great. I am well enough to function and work full time but torment is kind of a daily part of my life. I am reading the threads you sent, thank you! The main issue I face now is that my psychiatrist, having seen my failed attempts to go off medication in the past, would not be willing to work with me in another attempt. He has bought the fact that I am a perpetually lost case as far as that goes. So in order to become drug free I would need to go back to practicing deceit. He tried tapering me off at 50% reductions of the drugs, which is I think why I failed. I don't know if he has ever considered micro-tapering or compounding pharmacies. It's hard to imagine psychiatrists wouldn't know about these things, but then again it's not really surprising.

 

I want to get off the Depakote ER (since I've never exhibited manic/bipolar symptoms) and work on tapering the Abilify very, very slowly. I might need to take an antidepressant for the short term but at least it there is a lot more experience and guidance I can get on this forum about tapering those than tapering Depakote. I can't find any info on Depakote taper here...

 

I can't wait to learn more about micro-tapering. I wish someone could tangibly show me how it works...but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

[mammaP]

Hi Daniel, I think you should hold for a few months before starting another taper, You were on lexapro

in February, how did you taper from that? The depressive episode and not feeling great now would likely

have been withdrawal from that as you know, so a good long hold would allow your nervous system to stabilise.

 I would hold off introducing another drug, you will be sensitive to changes and could end up feeling worse. 

Read the links that Petu left for you, study the info and be well prepared for when you start tapering again

but for now, look after yourself, eat as well as you can, gentle exercise and avoid unnecessary stress. 

Fish oil and magnesium can be helpful for many people.  Often the side effects of the drugs actually become less

as the doses get lower so people actually feel better and better as they taper, but it can be so gradual that you

don't even notice it until one day you realise that today you did something unusual, maybe as simple as seeing

something that made your heart melt. Then you will smile because you know you are getting your brain back 

[Altostrata]

Daniel, you are not far from Stuart Shipko in Pasadena, if you cared to talk to another psychiatrist. Dr. Shipko has his quirks but supports tapering.

[daniel0708]

I am in need of wisdom from those who are dealing with psych drug (specifically antidepressant) withdrawal. My eventual goal, by the end of this year or the middle of next, is to be free from psych drugs in all forms. However, I recognize this is a long and winding road. I am currently tapering Depakote under my psychiatrist's advice, and he wants to get me off Abilify too due to blood sugar issues. However, he wants to put me on Lamictal, so that I would be on one psych med. I don't agree with this decision. I am thinking of asking to be put on an antidepressant temporarily, if I MUST be put on another drug, while I am tapering off the mood stabilizer and antipsychotic. Here are my reasons, and here is where I need your scrutiny.

 

1. More family doctors, though ignorant about psych drug withdrawal, are at least more willing to take on the responsibility of helping to taper since they are the ones who prescribe in the first place. Help is more readily available for those taking antidepressants than antipsychotics. (If you look on the web for info about Abilify withdrawal, there's almost nothing out there.) Maybe if I was on an antidepressant temporarily I could taper under a family doctor and avoid the enormous costs of being referred to a psychiatrist, who charge nearly $400 an hour. Also, with books like Dr. Glenmullen's out there, and websites like this, I can be assured that I have plenty of information on how to deal with antidepressant drug withdrawal.

 

2. Antidepressants, though very dangerous, are POSSIBLY a little less dangerous than antipsychotics, particularly for someone like me who has metabolic issues due to medication, family history of diabetes, and heart complications which arise from taking antipsychotics. I'm eager to get off the antipsychotic for these reasons and don't believe I would experience the same side effects on an antidepressant, depending on which one I take.

 

To be clear, this would be a short term strategy, with the eventual goal of becoming drug free. I realize I have to go through some kind of withdrawal hell regardless. However, the amount of support available to those suffering from antidepressant withdrawal as opposed to those suffering from antipsychotic and mood stabilizer withdrawal, plus the cheaper costs of antidepressants (Abilify costs $850 for 30 day supply) and saving hundreds of dollars by seeing family doctors as opposed to psychiatrists, are the main reasons I would at least consider switching to an antidepressant in the short term.

 

Cost is a very important factor for me, because I have an unstable job and health insurance situation right now (workers comp injury).

 

Thank you for any advice you can give. I don't know what the correct step is to take.

[Altostrata]

Daniel, I moved your post here.

 

I don't see any advantage at all to switching to an antidepressant. All that would do is complicate your situation, and possibly bring in additional adverse effects, too.

 

Why does your psychiatrist want to switch you to Lamictal?

 

our main concern seems to be cost. Perhaps you could hold on the Depakote and taper the Abilify instead, going off the more expensive drug first.

 

Any kind of MD can write the prescriptions, you don't need to see a psychiatrist. Few know anything about tapering, anyway.

 

An exception is Stuart Shipko http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/?p=21322Did you try to contact him?

[daniel0708]

Hi Alto,

 

Thanks for your advice. Just before typing this response I realized that switching to an antidepressant would not help at all. Then I saw your response which confirmed my suspicions. The doctor wants to switch me to Lamictal because the side effect profile of that medication is supposedly very good. There is no weight gain or blood sugar issues, which is what I am currently dealing with re: Abilify. I think I am going to follow his advice for now and continue the tapering schedule I am on. I've sort of realized that every psych drug has its own "demons" of side effects and withdrawal symptoms, and an antidepressant will be no safer than a "mood stabilizer" like Lamictal. I am trying to get on the lowest therapeutic dose of Lamictal possible....I told the psychiatrist I wanted to get off all psych meds and he said, "I will meet you halfway." That's when he proposed adding Lamictal as my only drug.

 

I did talk with Stuart Shipko over the phone. He costs $400 for the first session, if I remember correctly. It was not cheap. It helps to know that I can see any M.D for the Lamotrigine prescription. It is a pretty cheap drug as well.

[Altostrata]

What is Lamictal supposed to do for you?

[daniel0708]

Lamictal is supposed to level out my moods. In the Kaiser Permanente system they diagnosed me with "mood disorder". I told them that I never became psychotic when I went off meds, that I only became moody and emotional. The doctor is concerned about my ability to handle the moods that come my way. Lamictal is supposed to be a bipolar drug, but it is used to keep a person's moods from getting out of control. That's his reasoning behind adding Lamictal. Personally I'd like to be drug free, but if this is a step I can take to get closer to that goal (being on one drug instead of two) then it's a compromise I can accept at this time.

[Altostrata]

Daniel, this is difficult.

 

From your history, it looks like you have been consistently overmedicated. The combinations of drugs you've been on seem arbitrary.

 

From what you're saying, it seems your psychiatrist is offering you a deal: You can go off a combination of antipsychotics as long as you're on something else, maybe Lamictal. This doctor does not take into account your situational "mood disorder" may be resolved. ("Psychosis NOS" is a nonsensical diagnosis.) It does not make sense to continue to prescribe a drug for a patient who has no need of it.

 

Very few psychiatrists know anything about tapering and might well mistake withdrawal symptoms for "psychosis NOS" or some other "NOS." This is a disgrace to the profession -- but they don't even know they're making these huge errors.

 

Once you've gotten a diagnosis in a system like Kaiser, it can be hard to shake it. Can you find another psychiatrist or even a PCP who will help you minimize drugs and try life without them?

 

Tapering off those antipsychotics can be difficult, as the dosage reductions need to be very small. If you have ever had hallucinations or other so-called psychotic symptoms before, you can get them as withdrawal symptoms -- but that does not mean you're relapsing, it means you have withdrawal symptoms. You may find it even harder when you're working with such a limited psychiatrist.

 

In high dosages, which your psychiatrist is likely to use, lamotrigine can make you feel worse. See

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Lamictal (lamotrigine) to calm symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine)

[daniel0708]

Hello again Alto:

 

I am going to consult an outside psychiatrist out of pocket. You are right about Kaiser. I would love to see Dr. Stuart Shipko. Instead of substituting lamotrigine for my two medications, I think I will try to slowly titrate the Abilify dose so that I can be totally free of drugs. I wish there was a cheaper way to do this but it is totally worth it in the end. Thanks again for your help.

 

Daniel