LexAnger: tapering or no tapering, generic vs. name brand lexapro

[Cipramillion]

Hi, Lex!

 

So happy to hear you are feeling better! Such good news  

 

Hard work pays off!

 

Thinking of you. 

 

Big hugs!

[LexAnger]

Thank you so much cipromillion for your continuous and consistent support!

 

yes, this time I believe it's real. I have been tricked so many times in the past when I was in a tiny window thinking I was out of the worst only found I was back to despar soon after.

 

My cognitive improved a lot since 0.8 mg down. Physical symptoms from both WD and Reaction improved in both intensity and duration. The time I spend in bed is reduced to couple hours each day. I feel more confident to committee small things like having lunch with friends. I'm not too worried about not being able to present in meetings. Even severe symptoms can still occur here and there, I'm very greatful they are not everyday and last whole day. 

 

I I know I still need a few months or so to be off completely and post taper can take  a few more months, but compare to the 5 year hellious journey, I mad not afraid anymore, actually feel very hopeful.

 

again I'm so happy for you to get your life back in full!!!

 

lex

[AmyK]

Oh Lex, this is so great! Well done! 

You are right to be very hopeful. The worst is behind you now. 

I am so happy and relieved for you. 

 

Love, Amy

[LexAnger]

Love you Amy!

beyond this incredible soul breaking journey, I'm so greatful to have the opportunity to befriend with you and other SA members who showed me the greatness of human being and all the support, friendship, and comfort you all provided! 

 

Best wishes from bottom of my heart to you for all the great things from life!

 

love, 

lex

[LexAnger]

Correction to my post above, it's 0.08 mg not 0.8 mg when I started feeling the major improvement.

[Alice1]

Oh Lex . Im so so happy for you . You so deserve this .. Way to go buddy .

[Dan998]

That's fantastic news, Lex.

 

I know how hard you've worked at this, and how you've shown huge amounts of courage and determination whilst these awful drugs continued to bite you every step of the way. It really does sound like you've crossed the threshold where the drugs have no longer got their claws in you.

 

You are now just a few short paces away from the transition into a drug-free future. Before you cross the finish line, remember to turn around and take a long hard look at just how far you've come.

 

The numbers are getting so small now that it must be very hard to measure. Any thoughts as to what your stepping-off dose will be? 

[LexAnger]

Sorry for the late reply my friends! Been in a big hangover and pain back in bed most time for the past week. Really can't be surprised by being back to the mud no matter what and when during this process.

 

thank you all my friends for your encouraged words! 

 

Alice, hope you are seeing more improvement and getting bigger and more frequent windows!! 

 

Dan, I have been diluting the liquid 100x for a quite while, and I stopped measuring the original liquid using syringe, instead just using drops as I feel they are more accurate. I'm currently at 0.04 mg which is one drop from the 5mg/ ml liquid, I then add 100 ml water and taper from there by measuring out ml. As for the final dose before stopping, I can't say yet, but I can feel the power of 0.0004 mg every day ( I take the diluted liquid ml by ml every half hour over 8 hours each day). It's for sure the last dose will be 0.0004 mg or even smaller depending how I feel by then. I hope the healing is catching up more quickly for you without further interface of the drug.

 

FSL, you are so right about the  baby steps at the low dose. These drugs are so incredible when your brain is sensitized by them. 

 

Hope everyone is making decent progress!

 

just hang in, hang in, more time passed, closer we will be..

 

Love bs to all,

lex

[AmyK]

Lex, it's up and down and up again. You will feel better soon. Trust the process. 

Hang in there!

Hugs, Amy

[Dan998]

15 hours ago, LexAnger said:

Sorry for the late reply my friends! Been in a big hangover and pain back in bed most time for the past week. Really can't be surprised by being back to the mud no matter what and when during this process.

 

No need to apologise, Lex. We've all been there and understand that it can be difficult to post when we're having a rough time of it. As you know, those waves can strike at any time. I still get them even after being drug free for 3 months. Although, I'm noticing that they are shorter and less powerful as I put more distance between myself and citalopram.

 

16 hours ago, LexAnger said:

I have been diluting the liquid 100x for a quite while, and I stopped measuring the original liquid using syringe, instead just using drops as I feel they are more accurate. I'm currently at 0.04 mg which is one drop from the 5mg/ ml liquid, I then add 100 ml water and taper from there by measuring out ml

 

How long ago did you switch to using drops and did you notice any change in symptoms?

I only ask because I double checked and noticed a possible calculation error -- Assuming that there are 20 drops in 1 ml; then 1 drop of 5 mg/ml solution would be 0.25mg (5 / 20 = 0.25). You could be taking a much larger dose than you thought you were. 

 

I hope this is not the case and that I've just misunderstood your tapering method.

[LexAnger]

Hi Amy, thank you so much! I hope you are doing even better now!

I had the most severe reaction again two days ago even I was dropping doses everyday. I felt my body is in total tolerance even to a dose like 0.0004mg. It was like a death experience for a long evening very scary. So I dropped 0.01 mg from 0.04 to 0.03mg now. The drop helped relieving the drug reaction, now I'm in severe WD. I'm in big doubt now again that I will ever survive.

i feel it's not making sense to update anymore as my prediction and perspective always was proved wrong. Probably I will just focus on getting through each day for as long alas it takes and report when I am done.

 

Hi Dan, thank you so much for watching for me carefully! Ip that was a typo, the solution is 5mg/ 5ml so 1 drop is about 0.04 mg. somehow I am too sensitized to this poison, 0.0004 mg can make a huge difference so it seems my last dose will be around that dose or even smaller.

 

i am happy for you that you are improving with being more distant from the zero dose. You will survive and heal even more along the way!

 

 

[AmyK]

Don't worry, Lex. There are no right answers in this. It's not your fault that you can't always predict how you will react and feel. I can see only hope and huge fighting spirit in you. You are struggling for your life, and you will make it! You are soon there.

Write as much as you like! 

I am so sorry it's so hard, it's so unfair. It's poison and chemical lobotomy. I felt small changes like 0.0004 too in the end. You are not alone. 

But trust the thought that you will come thru this. Once your off you will feel relieved.

 I hold your hand. Many hugs and love, 

Amy

 

(I had a really good evening yesterday. Tired, but felt almost "normal". It's two months now.)

[LexAnger]

Amy, your word of encouragement is so needed. Thank you so much my friend!

 

i am in the worst despar now. Had a long day of most intolerable headache only got some relief after taking couple timing doses, the got very severe reaction from more doses and still struggling how much more I should take for the day.im stuck in two really hard places feeling not able to cope anymore. Like you did, I prefer to endure WD over the reaction,Mobutu now the pain from dose drop is not tolerable regardless how strong I hold. On the other hand, I feel dying from each dose I take.

 

i don't know anymore what to do. I feel I am done with the fight.

 

i hope hope some miracle can happen and I can turn around the corner and survive this time.

 

thanks for sharing the great news! I'm so happy you are doing so well!

 

lex

 

 

[brassmonkey]

(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))

[AmyK]

Hang in there, Lex. Your body will be reliefed once the drug is out of your system. You are soon there. 

 

Hugs and hugs! 

Amy

[grandmaD]

Oh, so sorry you have been in such distress for so long.  I've not been in a good place myself and unable to post, but have been following you along and continue to lift you up in my prayers for strength and miracle to get thru this and send hugs.  Keep resting so your body can recoup.

[LexAnger]

Thank you Tom and Amy, GrandmaD for holding me up at this extreme difficult time!

 

i survived the longest and most severe headache day, probably with help of the tiny dose 0.03 mg, still in very bad shape overall both WD and reaction. Trying to hold couple days to avoid another attack of headache while enduring the toxicity of the drug. 

 

Strange feeling that I didn't actually die from that headache!

 

this process is getting even more incredible.

 

 

 

 

[LexAnger]

Since the re- structure, I couldn't find the way to update my signature, can anyone help?

 

it seems the new format is not as intuitive as the old one, I lost track of many features and friends I used to know.

[scottly9999]

Hi Lex

Long time - no talk!!  We both have been busy in our own withdrawal.

Looks like you are still battling the pain and akathisia from these horrible poisons!!!!

How are you emotionally????

[LexAnger]

Hi Scottly,

 

Yes unfortunately. I had real high hope about your full recovery after a relatively smooth taper, but sadly it sounds still a quite struggling period for you being off couple months. Since down to the low doses early this year, I have been focusing more on surviving each day rather than checking in the forum. Most days I was not able to make a simple post due to either severe physical pain or mental dysfunction. 

 

My emotion is most time numbed not feeling much, or more precisely, lack of emotion both good and bad about what's going on around the world or surroundings. Occasional I would feel over reactive feeling annoyed by minor mis behaviors from others. I found my emotion does go with my physical and mental symptoms though, as when I got a moment of mild symptoms, my spirit would go up immediately but these moments are rare as all these year I have been having severe symptoms constantly.

 

i hope my emotion will return when I'm completely off and when the physical symptoms subside mostly soon after the zero dose. I feel hopeful about this as every time I dropped dose too much too fact, I would have some moment of lighting up. I believe it eventually will happen to everyone when our brain heals from this long poisoning. I heard so much from everyone survived, that time is the only healer, and we are still suffering since our time is not there yet.

 

we now know so well that these drugs affect everyone in an unique way. For me it messed up mainly on the part that causes physical pain and mental dysfunction, not too much on the psyc side except for the numbness as I don't have much issues with anxiety or depression. And for you it seems mainly on the emotion side. I would think the healing will occur in a similar manner and timeline. 

 

I will stop by your thread in a minute. More over there soon.

 

lex

 

[Cipramillion]

Hi, Lex. 

 

Thinking of you. Sorry to hear you are in a rough wave. These drugs are

so unpredictable. I know its hard for you to see this now, but i want you to know that i believe so much in you. From the outside i can see the progress you have made and the slow taper is bringing you nearer and nearer zero.

 

I believe no one can understand how much effort and strength this battle takes. You are a true warrior, my friend. You are also a true hero when it comes to supporting others, myself included. I want you to know how much that support has meant to me. Thank you so much! 

 

Im confident you can beat this. Just stay strong and hang in there. This wave shall pass. 

 

Big hugs! 

[LexAnger]

Hi Cipramillion,

 

I am really happy to hear you! Its been a while and I hope you are doing great!!

Thank you so much my friend! Your words of encouragement and outlook as a survivor now in outside gives me hope, and they are so needed too in the struggling!

 

You are so right about how much this process takes from a human being. Honestly I don't think I can make it to today without the most needed support from all my friends and Mods! That is why I greatly appreciate this forum for providing the common platform.

 

It warms my heart that you still come back and support to me even you don't need to come here for yourself anymore! 

I hope you are now 100% recovered in every single way!

 

Lots love,

Lex

[grandmaD]

Just wanted to drop by and add my amen to all the above comments about you!  Some truly amazing people on this forum, that's for sure! 

This will all be worth it in the end.  You won't know yourself when you aren't going through all this pain and sorrow!

[scottly9999]

Hi Lex.

I saw you comment on my thread just today - and yes, we all struggle to work out what is going on in our brains...

You can - and we all do - spent countless hours, days, weeks months inwardly focused working out what is wrong with our brains!!

Yet we never seem to get anywhere as the part that isn't working right, is the part that isn't there anymore - as the drugs removed it without us realizing it.

 

The way it robs you of the little enjoyments in life - where those little moments, strung together - so fragile is what makes us the individuals that we are.

We're unable to string them together - and hence lose a fundamental part of how we are designed to experience reality.

 

I also thought that I did quite well in my taper.

 

It appears that what was happening is I was in maximum tolerace for a very long time - before the penny dropped that something was wrong.

I wasn't feeling REALLY bad, but I wasn't feeling good either - just maxed out BLAH. in a way that wasn't right at all.

Each time I dropped a dose, I'd perk up a bit - the brakes came off... but it was just the pendulum swinging wildly - which kinda felt ok compared to the numb-blahness...

then the depression feeling would sink in again - and I thought I was stable...

maybe I was?

I don't know - but I don't think if I tapered for a year longer if I'd have avoided my severe crash I've been through.

I think it was inevitable in all honesty.

 

You've done exceptionally well to go SO SLOW in your taper too.

How have you been able to measure the liquid so accurately at such small doses???

The smallest notch on my syringe was 0.2mg for the 20mg/1ml liquid.

 

[LexAnger]

Scottly, I'm always amazed how explicitly and articulately you can describe this most complex and confusing situation! It shows the true you deep down are still intact and beautiful even on the surface your brain is numbed. I feel it should be added to a book or alike to help others to understand how it is like when under influence of these drugs.  Thanks for sharing! 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I often wonder if the slow taper actually is a better approach when one reached tolerance or, especially had severe reaction. I opted to go slow to maintain the very very minimal functionality not to collapse completely like bed ridden 24/7. We don't only have to deal with the nasty symptoms from WD and reaction, we also have to take care of living. This is another extra hardship as compared to other illness that others recognize, and the welfare benefits apply.

 

as for the tiny doses, I found the liquid lexapro is very easy to be diluted with water resulting highly accurate sipolution. I can practically dilute it to any concentration as desired. Since 0.2 mg down, I stopped measuring using synrige, instead I take drops from the synrige. As drops are more accurate without human error. For my original liquid, 5 drops are approximately 0.2 mg, I add 500 ml water to the drops to make 100 ml solution, then measure by synrige. So the minimum dose I can measure is 0.00004 mg. as crazy as it sounds, after I reached 1 drop ( 0.04 mg), I found 0.00004 mg can make a difference in my symptoms. Very likely, my jumping off dose will be like that.

 

 

[LexAnger]

Correction to my previous post--

make 500 ml solution, instead of make 200 ml solution

[scottly9999]

7 hours ago, LexAnger said:

Scottly, I'm always amazed how explicitly and articulately you can describe this most complex and confusing situation! It shows the true you deep down are still intact and beautiful even on the surface your brain is numbed. I feel it should be added to a book or alike to help others to understand how it is like when under influence of these drugs.  Thanks for sharing! 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I often wonder if the slow taper actually is a better approach when one reached tolerance or, especially had severe reaction. I opted to go slow to maintain the very very minimal functionality not to collapse completely like bed ridden 24/7. We don't only have to deal with the nasty symptoms from WD and reaction, we also have to take care of living. This is another extra hardship as compared to other illness that others recognize, and the welfare benefits apply.

 

as for the tiny doses, I found the liquid lexapro is very easy to be diluted with water resulting highly accurate sipolution. I can practically dilute it to any concentration as desired. Since 0.2 mg down, I stopped measuring using synrige, instead I take drops from the synrige. As drops are more accurate without human error. For my original liquid, 5 drops are approximately 0.2 mg, I add 500 ml water to the drops to make 100 ml solution, then measure by synrige. So the minimum dose I can measure is 0.00004 mg. as crazy as it sounds, after I reached 1 drop ( 0.04 mg), I found 0.00004 mg can make a difference in my symptoms. Very likely, my jumping off dose will be like that.

 

 

Hi Lex.

 

I think you are doing the right thing with the super slow taper.

If I had my time over - although I said otherwise earlier... I think I'd go slower, and reduce more gradulally - esp at this low dose that I was on when I stopped.

I honestly didn't think 0.2mg was doing much at all...

boy was I wrong!

Even though I read countless stories about how low you should go - I remember being on multiple mg's and thinking maybe 1mg would be ok to stop???

How wrong!!!

As you can't *FEEL* the drug doing much - it really is... the longer you take it, the further your CNS warps around it - and the more painful it seems to be when it slowly creeps back to normal.

 

Although I haven't been bed ridden - I've been able to goto work (some days haven't been particularly productive though)... and able to function - there certainly hasn't been much joy.

I've had quite weepy eyes of late - like I'm on the verge of tears often - and have to make excused I've got something in my eye often.

 

I guess from my writing and posts, that I'm treating it as a learning experience, to understand it, to investigate to learn and apply philosophy to this... to get perspective.

I get little pangs of interest in learning to grow as a person from this.

Thanks for your kind words on how I'm processing this journey!!!  It constantly changes and evolves, ebbs and flows.

It's very fluid.

Even the lowness of the depression changes and shifts colours.. it's amazing how many shades of black your mind can produce.

 

Maybe I should be writing poetry or songs !??  ha ha.

MAYBE!

 

[LexAnger]

Why not ( write songs poetry)! They can be in the book of this historical event in human being!

 

my original plan was to taper the 4.5 mg in 7 years as it seems the time needed for a more or less natural healing required from this trauma. I lost the privilege by one accidental updose ( 4.2 instead of 3.2 mg) and had to change the course tapering fast in just 3.5 years. I have been bed ridden quite often since the updose and bedridden most hours on most days this year after a huge drop from 0.8 to 0.13. 

 

This is drug is so mysterious in the way it affect our systems. As I go lower with doses, the sensitivity increase in terms of absolute dosage. This makes the 10% rule of the previous dose marvelous as its so true. You would naturally think those tiny doses won't be effective as you didn't feel so when at higher doses, but in fact even 0.0004 mg can still be as effective when your current dose is 0.04 mg (10%). Somehow I found those tiny doses can make a huge difference to a super sensitized system.

 

you did your best so don't blame yourself. This is such an incredible game no one can grasp a clue even you try your best day in and day out to understand and predict. One positive thing is, once you are off, the healing process will be sure natural without interface by the drugs and it should be faster.  Somehow I found ppl recover timeline is shorter on average CT than those who slow taper.

 

im very hesitate to bring this up, in case you feel very bad and want to consider, to reinstate a tiny dose like 0.02 mg or similar. I don't know really as I'm the one with strong opinion against reinstate. But seeing you struggle a lot makes me thinking wild.

 

[AmyK]

Thankyou for stopping by my thread, Lex. I am thinking about you too. I hope your day is ok. 

 

Love, Amy

[TheWayBack]

Hi Lex

 

Just read up on your history. Hope things will clear up a bit the following months! Best wishes!

 

 

[AmyK]

Hi Lex! You are in my thoughts. What dose are you on now? Remember the goal is near.

Love and hugs! 

Amy

 

[LexAnger]

Hi Amy, so happy to hear you! Immedupiatley I saw the email notice on the post to my thread, I thought it must be you!

 

im still at 0.02mg, dropped couple times each at 0.0004 mg which brought up huge pain every one of them, so was sacred to drop again. Same time, the drug reaction is getting even more intolerable with scary level DR/DP and heart issues a

omg with vision so blued often times I can't see anything on the computer screen. Been calculating, and recalculating the time everyday trying to figure out weather to drop or hold. 

 

This low dose seems incredibly difficult to understand and handle with the drug reaction in the mix. I studied your schedule again and again after you reached 2.5mg which is approximately 1mg lex, and how much longer you took and at what pace. It made me thinking something like 2.5 years from the point I was at 1 mg last November, meaning 1.5 more year to go before I should touch zero. 

 

On the other hand, I wonder everyday that maybe most probable a I got are from the drug. This mental struggling goes on all the time on my mind. Like one day I am so sure I have to hold for long, then the next day I feel I had to drop.

 

so I feel the rest of my journey will be a total unknown both in terms of symptoms and timeline, I basically go with how I feel every night right before finishing the dose that I eventually decided to take.

 

been also reading more stories here about those started recovering round 7 years mark, feeling total doomed.

 

enough about my negative update. Regardless have to continue.

 

how about you? Are you feeling more stabilized with most residual symptoms resolved? I remember a book from a Ssri survivor talking about the post withdrawal wrap up, how to proceed to life after the trauma. I hope this stage won't take long for you.

 

love,

lex

[AmyK]

Lex, just continue and don't think about the schedule. I don't think you have to go on for 1.5 years.

We shouldn't compare, but once I dropped my dose 50 % as I felt so drugged (at 0.63 mg -> 0.33 mg in November I think), I felt nothing bad. It is so unpredictable! 

What I mean is go with how your body feels, you are the expert. I also thought I would hold for a several weeks this year in the final stretch, but I just couldnt do it, my body rejected the drug. I just had to drop, like you, regularly. 

 

0.02 mg is very low. You are so brave and strong! You can do this! 

 

(I am more stabilized. I feel better.)

 

Hugs and love to you! On the other side of the globe.  

[LexAnger]

Hi Amy,

 

so so glad you are mor stabilized and feel better!!

 

Thanks for the reassurance and encouraging words!

 

you are so right about listening to own body! See below what I found out, also for the record.

 

believe it or not, thr different and deadly episode I got in the past 10 days is from a dose increase of 0.0005 mg for 2 days for a very intolerable headache due to a fast drop in dose. As much as I know so too well about the great harm from dose increase, I thought that tiny increase should not be recognized by the brain causing reaction. Things got so wrong in a very unfamiliar manner 3 days since the increase, starting with wire resetting in my head, firework allover my brain and body, heart pounding like crazy, inner anxiety and jittery, total DR and akathesia. I was thinking them all from my fast taper from 0.04 to 0.02 mg in a week, until yesterday I suddenly realized these are almost exact the same to what I had in 2015 after an accidental one day dose increase from 3.2 to 4.2 .  

 

So hard to believe how one can get a severe reaction to such a ridiculous dose increase, I tested by delaying dosing yesterday then the severe reaction lessened over time, and each time I touch the 100x diluted solution, they wipeouts ramp back in full force. I dropped more yesterday and feeling much less reaction today. Total insane!

 

giving what happened and what I learned from it, I think there is no other way but continue dropping dose to zero probably in a short time.

cant risk for more accidents of dose increase and it's very difficult not to make such errans at this incredible measures.

 

 

 

 

[AmyK]

I am so sorry, Lex. It doesn't surprise me that those small doses made a different though. It's awful. I just wish you were free from this drug soon. It's very unfair suffering. 

 

Just keep on going. <3

Love, Amy

 

[LexAnger]

Thanks for believing me Amy, and your consistent and kindest support!

best wishes to your well being!

Love,

lex