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☼ mlrp: withdrawal syndrome from Wellbutrin? Also on remeron and lorazepam.

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mlrp

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Hello, everyone,

 

I'll skip the niceties and just thank you sincerely for being here. I'm feeling a bit desperate (can you relate?) and this forum seems to have the most combined wisdom and sanity on this subject of anything else I've encountered on the internet.

 

I'm highly sensitive to medications and other substances. I'm a 53-year-old female.

 

In April 2013, I had (for lack of a better word) a total breakdown as the result of emotional trauma during a crisis in my relationship with my borderline personality disorder mother. Severe insomnia and panic for weeks on end, severe insomnia and night terrors for about six weeks, followed by a period of about seven days with no sleep whatsoever. Was never hospitalized and never missed work (not sure how I managed that) but for weeks afterwards had extreme panic attacks that lasted hours everyday.

 

I was tried on Lexapro, and Trazadone - unable to take more than one dose. I can't take standard SSRI's - they seriously mess with my gut.

 

In April 2013, I was put on Remeron to get me sleeping and help with depression. I'm up to 30 mg of Remeron at night before bed. I was also given .5 mg lorazepam to take "as needed," but primarily one at night before bed. At one point (months ago now) I was maybe taking 1.5 mg lorazepam daily at most. I pretty doggedly keep it to .5 daily now. I was also prescribed Wellbutrin, with the dosage eventually increased to 75 mg / twice a day.

 

I don't know that these meds ever did anything for my depression / anxiety. The Remeron probably did get me sleeping, and the lorazepam helps with anxiety, but instinct tells me that I more or less worked through the depression without much "chemical" help - currently in therapy and a 12-step program. I still have a fair amount of depression and, as with many people, I can't tell if it's the pills or actual depression or what.

 

About six weeks ago I was feeling considerably better - less crying and general anxiety. Of course, my pdoc (nurse practitioner, actually) said (as I've heard other docs say) that my dosage of wellbutrin was so small, and it's an "easy" drug to discontinue, that I could practically CT if I wanted. I didn't think that would work with my sensitivities, so I started an ad hoc taper of taking it down 50% to 75 mg / day for about two weeks, then went to 75 mg / every other day for about two weeks, then 75 mg / maybe every second day, until I finally stopped altogether about two weeks ago. (This is a rough estimate because I didn't write anything down).

 

About a week ago, my sleep started getting easily disturbed (NOT a good thing for me) and the next thing I knew, I've had a return of severe anxiety (near panic), big time repetitive thoughts, severe joint pain (in my hip, where I'd never had a problem before), problems concentrating, and emotional reaction and crying way disproportionate to events, plus the return of pretty pronounced depression. I'm guessing this is Wellbutrin withdrawal? (Some of the symptoms, like joint pain and repetitive thoughts, I've seen listed elsewhere as wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms).

 

I got confused about whether to try to taper the lorazepam first, or the wellbutrin, as I've seen both courses of action indicated in different places on the web.

 

PLEASE, I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions (realizing this is not a medical advice board). Am I too late to reinstate the wellbutrin, if that is the common wisdom? If not, at what dosage should I try? The Wellbutrin is Bupropion HCL and is in a coated tablet, but I don't think it's slow-release. I have an appointment to see my pnurse on Friday, but I don't have much faith in him or pmeds generally.

 

Thank you so much for reading this!! I so want my life back - the emotional pain of the last week or so has been pretty severe and reminds me of the worst of my depression. I start a new, demanding job at the end of the month and I don't want to be in this state when I do.

 

mlrp

 

 

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Karma

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HI mlrp

 

Welcome to our community.  I'm sorry for the difficulties you've experienced, but you will find lots of support here.

 

You are within the window to re-instate Wellbutrin.  We recommend you go back to the last dose where the withdrawal symptoms started.  It looks like since you were skipping doses that might have been roughly equivalent to about 25 mg.  You can start at that and see if that helps to eliminate the withdrawal symptoms.  You can monitor your most troublesome symptoms and if that doesn't quite help you, then you can bump up to 37.5 mg.

 

Since you have already identified that you are very sensitive to these medications, we want to re-instate gently so we don't overstimulate your system.

 

Here is our topic on tapering Wellbutrin and it does address how to deal with the coated tablets: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/877-tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-buproprion/

 

Our guideline for what to taper first is to taper the most activating drug first and that would be one of the anti-depressants.  You will taper off or your Wellbutrin and Remeron first and then taper off lorazepam last.  Keep the lorazepam dose as low as you can stand and understand that you will likely have to taper off of it.  I am not entirely sure whether Wellbutrin or Remeron is more activating, but since you've already started with Wellbutrin, let's try and get you stable with that and go from there.

 

Karma

2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax

200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg
Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg;

1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg
Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor

I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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I should also add that I was hospitalized November 2013 for a freak blood infection that has lodged in my spine. Was on dilaudid in hospital 5 days, then morphine at home for 3 weeks plus intravenous antibiotics for 7+ weeks. withdrawal from the morphine even after three weeks was hell. i'm, thankfully, not an "addictive" person, or it might have been worse. obviously, i have no intention of "reinstating" pain meds, but thought it could be relevant to my overall profile.

 

primarily, I could really use some counsel re whether or not to reinstate wellbutrin. I'm trying to research other threads here on the topic, but I' m pretty scattered at the moment, and could use the assistance. sorry to sound so needy. I will do what I can to pay it forward. thank you.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Karma Contributor

Karma

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mlrp

 

Sorry if the answer to your question was buried in too much text.  Yes, you should re-instate a small amount of Wellbutrin.  We recommend about 25 mg to start.

 

Karma

2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax

200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg
Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg;

1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg
Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor

I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Hi Karma. God bless you for replying. i have tears of gratitude, reading your post. part of it is that i'm over emotional :-) but truly i am grateful. i sense a true wisdom and community spirit here, and my gut tells me to trust this site for my recovery even though it may be a long road. i will read the tapering wellbutrin thread you linked to. i really needed the direction because i'm just so jittery now. God bless you and all here. I will follow up and post my progress soon.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Jemima Newbie

Jemima

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I agree with the advice Karma has given you. Reinstating Wellbutrin, stabilizing on that, and then tapering off gradually and slowly is the way to go. I suspect that part of why you're having an uncomfortable withdrawal from Wellbutrin is the every-other-day and every-two-days dosing. That's like batting your brain around with a tennis racket. Because you've now been sensitized, you might want to reduce your dose more slowly than advised in the discussion on 'Tips for Tapering Off Wellbutrin'.

 

You might also want to take a look at our benzo withdrawal forum: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/ .  I suspect some of the problems you're having may be coming from inter-dose withdrawal from lorazepam, but I'm by no means an expert in this area.

 

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you found us.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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I just want to thank Jemima and Karma again for responding to my e-mail. I read Jemima's success story and will look to it for inspiration.

 

I reinstated 25 mg of Wellbutrin yesterday. Have already experienced some mild relief from the very worst of the symptoms. Still extremely scattered, anxious, depressed, and crying a lot for no reason, but I hope to stabilize wtih the reinstatement.

 

I will be reading and learning as much as I can here, and hope to eventually conribute experience, strength, and hope. I have a feeling this is going to be a long, challenging journey, but I think this community will help me succeed. I already feel myself among friends.

 

My biggest concern is that I am starting a new, demaning job at the end of the month. I had been stable and functioning highly enough to apply for and get the job - and then I tapered on the Wellbutrin and had this crash. Hopefully, reinstatement and self-care will provide enough stability for my June start date.

 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for just being here.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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bubble Rookie

bubble

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I know how it feels about June. But let's say that it's still relatively far away and things most definitely won't be as they are now. 

 

I also work through crashes and withdrawals and we manage.

 

I'm glad you are here and thank you for the nice flowers ;)

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Meimeiquest Newbie

Meimeiquest

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Just wanted to say hi...I had a rough tumble off Wellbutrin but I lived, and parented and worked through the process ( have to admit it wasn't pretty!). You can do it, just go at your own sensitive pace. Lower down, I had to do multiple daily doses because it has a relatively short half life. Good luck!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Rhiannon Rookie

Rhiannon

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As Jemima mentions, there's a chance that interdose withdrawal from the lorazepam is also contributing, although I agree that your primary issue right now is the Wellbutrin.

 

When you're ready, see if you can get a 0.25 mg formulation of lorazepam, and divide the daily dose of 0.5 mg into four parts and take one every six hours or so. People usually do best with four-to-six hour dosing of lorazepam due to its short half-life.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Thank you, all, for the welcome and support. I'm holding onto your words of encouragement, as well as your careful, studied counsel.  Rhi, I've taken on board your thoughts on lorazepam dosing - will see what I can do, once I restabilize the Wellbutrin situation. I had no idea how insidiously affecting such tiny amounts of anything could be. There is so much to learn here. I never in my life wanted to be an expert in psych meds but now I see that it's entirely up to me to manage my own recovery (with help from resources such as this site). If I could have seen ANY alternative to the meds back when I was losing it, I would have taken it. But I was near psychotic from total sleep deprivation and the accompanying panic, anxiety, and depression. I put up a good argument in the psychiatrist's office but I was scared for my own survival and ultimately too desperate to know what else to do, so I let myself get talked into the meds. Anyway, I'm here now, and I WILL (higher power willing) get my life back.

 

Thank you for listening. I hope to get to know you all better over time (since this will, *sigh,* take time). You're welcome for the flowers, Bubble. Thought I'd better choose an icon and settle in.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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dalsaan Newbie

dalsaan

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Hi mirp

 

Recognising that you have to manage your own recovery is a very positive step. Let's us know how things go for you

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Hello, all,

 

Checking in and wishing you all well.

 

Clinical stuff: Day 4 of reinstatement of Wellbutrin at approx. 25 mg. 9 a.m. each day. Approximate, because currently using a pill cutter to cut 75 mg pills in thirds. Clumsy and inaccurate. Still having pronounced anxiety (near panic) and depression, particularly upon awakening with accompanying, baseless crying jags. Have noted continued, slight improvement, however. Stabilizing more as the day progresses. Crying jags lessening somewhat in intensity. Still taking .5 mg of Lorazepam with, or shortly after, Remeron at night, before bed. Continue generally depressed and with anhedonia, which have been my constant companions since this whole ordeal began - though there has been progress - albeit in the windows and waves pattern so often cited here.

 

Work has been super busy, as I prepare to leave one job and go to my new one. Little to no time to digest the threads here about Wellbutrin, but will commit to this over the next couple of days. 

 

Questions:

  • I'm guessing that it's probably too early to try increasing to 37.5 mg of Wellbutrin to see if that brings more relief. I should probably give the 25 mgs. a few more days, yes? 
  • I used to take my Wellbutrin once in the morning and once in the evening. Would it make sense to divide my current dosing in the same manner? Would make for chopping pills into tiny bits (until I read the threads on Wellbutrin to see if there's a better way to do this), but would twice daily dosing help with stabilizing?
  • Is it possible that the three weeks of heavy narcotics and morphine that I was on back in November 2013 (hospital stay for infection) plus the seven weeks of intravenous antibiotics I was on - picc line with dosing one hour every four hours (then two weeks of tablets) has complicated things for me? I had just about every possible reaction to the antibiotics that you could imagine (barring anaphylaxis), including rash and low-grade fever, but this was a potentially life-threatening situation and I had no choice. I ended up hallucinating on the dilaudid and they gave me one dose of haldol (which, to be honest, I liked because it stopped my racing thoughts - NOT that I want ANY of these meds) before switching me to morphine.

Personal stuff: Have I mentioned that I love you all? In all honesty, the more I scan these threads, read your stories, and witness the selfless way the administrators, moderators, and community members are here for fellow sufferers, the more intensely emotional I feel. I feel for the first time since this horror started last January 2013 that I am among people who GET what I have been going through - the symptoms and experiences are so precisely like mine. I feel understood, encouraged, and as if I am with people who truly care. I also feel that I am with a group of seriously intelligent and capable minds - smart people who want to recover their lives in the safest and most effective way possible. It's a huge relief to have found this website. 

 

Related to this, however, are my fear and misgiving. Because I am now fully grasping the reality that this is going to be a long, slow process that will require more patience, commitment, and courage on my part than I have ever had to summon (dalsaan, I think I saw you posting something to that effect in another thread). I know I will need the support of this community if I'm going to get there. 

 

And, lastly, are my absolute grief, sorrow, anger, and resentment that this actually happened to me. When I think of the person I "was," and what I have been "reduced" to because of traumatic emotional abuse, the subsequent anxiety and depression, and the medications that I felt I had no choice but to take. Of course, I have enough recovery to know that these kinds of thoughts will do nothing to help me. But it feels good to be able to acknowledge them in a safe, supportive environment. 

 

Please be assured of my loving concern for everyone here, those of you who have been kind enough to reach out to me, and any other member of this community. And my already profound gratitude to the moderators and administrators of this site, who I know will assist me in my path to full recovery.  

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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bubble Rookie

bubble

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Hello mlrp,

 

it was really nice reading your kind words. I feel the same about this forum ;)

 

Also understand and agree with what you wrote about the perseverance this whole process takes and the support we all need. I'm here to get that support and give it in return. also feel I could never do it without it. 

 

Very hapyp reinstatement seems to work. I (think) I know only the answer to the first question: yes, give 25 mgs a chance. I've found out that it is stability over time that heals and not a particular dose. 

 

Also, as you yourself notice cutting the pill like that is not the best way but those who have the experience with Wellb will be able to help you more with that.

 

I would also say, ATBs affect us as well as all other not only psychoactive substances but even food. 

 

I would like to add that we will have to addres the issue of Lorazepam and Remeron asap as well. 

 

big hug,

 

bubble

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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Welcome, mirp.

 

We haven't met before -- thank you for your kind words about the staff here. I agree, they are a pretty great bunch!

 

Instructions for making a liquid from Wellbutrin are in this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/877-tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-buproprion/

 

If you want to continue to cut tablets, you may wish to get 100mg tablets, they will be easier to cut more accurately into 25mg segments.

 

Yes, your previous exposure and adverse reactions to neurologically active drugs may have caused your nervous system to be hypersensitive. You will need to take care of it for quite a while to let it heal.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Clinical stuff: Day 5 of Wellbutrin reinstatement 25 mg in the morning. Continued morning despair and severe anxiety - but shades better today than yesterday. Continuing mild to moderate anxiety and depression throughout the day, but coping. I realize now that I must also have akathisia, albeit perhaps a milder form than most. I've never known how to name what I've been feeling all this time, but it's definitely more than "simple" anxiety.

 

Bubble, thank you for your words of encouragement. I look forward to getting to know you in the coming days. I see your struggle with Xanax, and wish you continued success in your recovery. And when I think that it wasn't that long ago I was thinking of "trading in" the Lorazepam for Xanax on the advice of a friend (who, like so much of the population, is clearly misguided and in over his head with these meds).

 

Altostrata, thank you very much for the welcome. I am continuing to make a study of the Wellbutrin information here in order to make the best decisions going forward. I definitely think that my clunky Wellbutrin taper has further "burned" my system and I now have to go through the process of recovering from that big mistake. I see my pdoc on Friday. I have no idea how much, if any, of this I will share with him, but I may ask for the 100mg tabs to make splitting easier.

 

Personal babble: All my life, I've described myself as a "lightweight." One drink gets me tipsy, half a Tylenol PM zonks me out. What was I thinking when I agreed to these meds?! Well, clearly, I wasn't thinking. I was in the midst of being emotionally traumatized and probably one more visit to the ER away from hospitalization. And now I feel I've really taken a big step backward in my healing process with my clunky taper from Wellbutrin. I have a feeling this will take me longer than many. When I started the taper, life was just beginning to feel liveable again - I was just starting to feel the stirrings of interest in doing things I like to do, socializing, etc. And now, even though the 25 mg reinstatement is helping, I'm back in a pretty deep trough that feels more like six months ago than six weeks ago. But I will persist and rely on my program and other supports to stay as strong and focused on my recovery as possible.

 

Two interesting observations:

  • When I was in the midst of the trauma, I became (as you would expect) hypervigilant and the sleep deprivation progressed to where there was a period of probably seven days where I didn't sleep at all. And that was on top of weeks of minimal sleep - maybe two hours here and there. At the worst of it, everytime I would just start to fall asleep, I would wake with a very violent start - it felt exactly as if I'd been tazered in my solar plexis.  I've never (thankfully) gotten brain zaps from the meds, but I was very interested to learn that your gut has as many, or more, receptors as does your brain. My anxiety issues have always manifested with severe GI upsets, so it makes sense to me, on a personal level, that my gut was essentially electrocuting itself at the height of my trauma. This also explains why I can't tolerate SSRI's because of their effect on my GI system.
  • Also about this time, and shortly before I was prescribed the ADs and Lorazepam, I went through a period (about four weeks) of anorexia. This had nothing to do with self-image issues - I just lost the ability to tolerate eating anything. Lost about 20 pounds in two months. But what fascinates me is that, whenever I was able to eat anything at all, I could only tolerate very healthy, clean foods. Omega rich fish, raw red and yellow peppers, peaches, a few other things like that. I've always seen these two observations as clear evidence that my cerebral and central nervous systems were under attack. The "gut tazering" was my system out of whack, and my ability to eat only simple, clean foods was my body's last ditch effort to heal itself. It was about that time I had to be first prescribed sleeping pills, and about seven days later, was taken off of those and put on the Remeron. If only there had been something else that could have been done. I mean, I "knew better" than to trust these meds, as did my dear, dear husband, but we were desperate by that point and grasping at straws... *sigh*

 

Love and light to you all.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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What are these symptoms of akathisia and when do you experience them?

 

Please keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern and when you take your drugs.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Hello, Altostrata,

 

Clinical check-in: Taking the day off of work today. HATED waking up (as I do every morning, again, since the Wellbutrin withdrawal, especially) - still a fair amount of despair, crying, and anxiousness. When I don't have a job to go to and cover it up (which is exhausting), I tend to give in a little bit at home. Took 25 mg Wellbutrin at 9:00 a.m. Starting to feel a bit calmer - but still depressed.

 

Re. akathisia:I suppose it is possible that what I have experienced is not akathisia, but the more I reflect on my last 14 months - and put the pieces together - the more it looks like a [hopefully mild] form of akathisia. The first thing that struck me in what I have read about it is the (from Wikipedia) "sense of inner tension or torment." I experience this inner anguish, from mild to extreme, almost everyday. I think I'm getting to a place where I've just learned to live with the milder episodes (and, yes, perhaps I am also slowly improving simply due to passage of time) and grit my teeth through the worse periods. So, the interior torment was the first element I identified with, but then I started looking at the list of physical symptoms, and finally, just took a look at some youtube footage of a woman in hospital with akathisia of the legs and had this horrible realization that I do the same in bed (not every night by any means, but occasionally). So here is a list of my symptomatic history as I can best recall:

  • I was displaying a lot of rocking back and forth when seated, or standing, before the meds - during the most horrific times dealing with my mother (she never physically abused me; it was all mental/emotional; a 50+ year codependent relationship with a borderline personality disorder parent; she's still alive, and I do love her, but I've finally freed myself and am working on recovery
  •  
  • A few weeks after starting Remeron, I noticed restless leg syndrome occurring if I took it and then waited too long before getting into bed
  •  
  • Restless leg syndrome has largely faded - though still occurs on occasion in bed, along with tensing of leg and foot muscles. Thankfully, this is rare now.
  •  
  • [When I CT'd off the morphine - again on doc's recommendation because I was only on it for 3 weeks at the lowest dose - I had the worst 72 hours of my life. Lots of horrible symptoms, among them restless leg syndrome to the point of where I looked as if I was jogging in place in bed. My husband looked up narcotic withdrawal and found that this may be where the term "kicking the habit" came from.]
  •  
  • In the early months after my traumatization and subsequent prescribing of AD's, I had extreme urges to do a lot of walking. Thankfully, I work in a massive museum, and I found many excuses to just walk the length of the building (about two city blocks) a few times a day. This, too, has subside within the last six months or so.
  •  
  • Today, I am very fidgety with a return of some rocking, leg bouncing, and foot shaking. I think this is in part due to my clunky Wellbutrin withdrawal, from which I am still trying to stabilize.

I will try to keep notes on paper of my daily symptom pattern and drug taking. I still need to work on letting go of the resentment that this is what I must do in order to recover, the feeling that I have "better" things to do with my time. My 12-step program helps me with acceptance.

 

Thank you so much, for your wisdom and caring.

 

Love and light to all.

1

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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Could be akathisia. As you can see, it can change. Be patient.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Rhiannon Rookie

Rhiannon

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Hi there--

 

I don't have much time, leaving town and need to get packing, but wanted to mention a couple of things.

 

First, I really relate to the processing of your losses due to abuse and these drugs--the grief and anger. It's not helped by the neuro-emotions of withdrawal, either. When I first started the tapering process years ago, I was fortunate to meet some folks online who had lost everything like I had, and we talked about our feelings about it, when we could. Sometimes we just had to set it aside because it was so deep and intense.

 

Over time, I've managed to move through a lot of it. Getting down on the med doses and getting stable and getting my life back has helped. Grieving has helped, feeling my feelings and just crying or hollering or hitting the bed pillows, or whatever came along. 

 

Anyway, mostly just wanted to let you know I hear you and you're not alone.

 

Also: yes, absolutely the spell in the hospital could have and certainly did throw things off. First, the opiates, which are powerful perturbers of neurotransmitter functions, and second the antibiotics, which would have really disrupted your healthy microbiota, which may or may not be normalized yet even now. And there's all sorts of interesting research going on right now about how the gut microbiome interacts with neurotransmitter function. So, yes. (You can help yourself along with the recovery from that by making sure you're recolonized...yogurt, of course, but also healthy dirt is good if you can get fresh organic garden produce or work in an organic garden. I find my homemade kefir to be really helpful. Chris Kresser's writings about probiotics seem pretty good to me.)

 

Welcome, we are as glad that you're here as you are that we are.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Hello, all,

 

Checking in, and wish it could have been sooner. Wellbutrin withdrawal and reinstatement is definitely taking a toll, so I'm not cognitively processing or, for that matter, moving, very quickly at all. Thoughts of the solutions offered on this site, and the kind, knowledgeable people here, have been keeping hope alive in me.

 

Clinical stuff: Approximately 05/16, I cut the current single, daily Wellbutin dose of 25 mg. into two doses of 12.5 mg. (a.m. and p.m.). While I am doing "alright" (i.e., coping), I'm still having considerable feelings of despair, anxiety, and crying jags for little or no reason. I think it's probably too soon to think about increasing daily dosage, but it may be that 25 mg. once a day is better for me than 12.5 mg. twice daily. That said, will stay the present course for a while longer.

 

It almost certainly is akathisia. I'm only able to form the picture in retrospect, because while symptoms are ongoing, it's difficult to parse them out from what is now my "normal" "reality." Last night, falling asleep had the usual intermittent leg kicks and stiffening - but thank God I'm able to fall asleep. Realized today in church that the feeling of internal turmoil and the inability to sit quietly still has definitely returned since my withdrawal "crash." The day before I reinstated, I could barely contain myself during a dinner out with family members. And the feeling in church today cinched it. In the weeks leading up to my attempted taper, I had been having moderate to good success meditating, and finding solace sitting and praying in church during and after services. Today, I could barely hang on until the end of the service. My mind can't settle on anything at all for very long.

 

I need to leave for (yet another) family restaurant function, so will leave this here for now. I do have more information (re supplements, especially) to share, and want to respond to Alto's and Rhi's kind replies, but will do so when I have a bit more time.

 

Thank you all for caring. Whoever you are, if you're here reading this, and suffering, too, please know I keep you in my prayers.

 

Lastly, one bit of information I saw offered by Alto in another thread has really been helping me through - that what I am going through is physical, perhaps physiological (I'm no scientist so please excuse my clumsy understanding of things), but certainly not psychological or mental. I am NOT crazy, insane, or mentally "ill." At least not beyond what is being inflicted upon me by these meds, and that, I intend to overcome. Patience is all.

 

Love and light.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Meimeiquest Newbie

Meimeiquest

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Posted

Everyone is different, and metabolizes at different rates, but I found for me I had to dose even more frequently when I got low. I could feel clear interdose symptoms when that happened. I had the Genomind test and I am an ultra-rapid metabolizer, so that may have been unique to me. But the immediate release form of Wellbutrin is easy to make into a solution if you need it. Keep keeping on!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Note to self: NEVER start a haphazard taper (I guess I could end that sentence right there) from anything two months before you start a new job! I wish I actually felt as glib as this sounds.

 

Clinical stuff: Day eight of Wellbutrin reinstatement. Withdrawal symptoms continue, especially what I am now fairly convinced is akathisia (or similar). Immediately upon waking, I am filled with despair and dread, and curl up whimpering at the thought of getting out of bed (how I still have a loving husband is a mystery to me - I am so grateful to him and my higher power). This weepy despair is actually more pronounced (I think - remembering in detail is such a challenge) than it was in the earliest months of my depression. I KNOW INTELLECTUALLY that everything is fine, but MY BODY won't let me behave that way! Physically (as in the early days), I can feel the adrenalin, or cortisol, or whatever it is coursing through my body, especially my arms. This is the place from which I have to climb down every, single morning - whether or not I have to go to work. In fact, work sometimes - eventually - distracts me enough that the symptoms subside somewhat.

 

Supplement update: (Will probably start posting some of this directly to the appropriate thread but since I'm new, I'll consider this part of my initial profiling.) I have been experimenting with magnesium based on what I have managed to read on the magnesium thread. Nightly epsom salt soaks provide some relief - at least from overall physical tension. And a subtler, more generalized relief from anxiety. Duration seems to be restricted somewhat to the length of the soak, though I usually go right to bed afterward and listen to a sleep meditation or similar.

 

Also tried sipping magnesium citrate (approximately 125 mg)  "mixed" into water - except the lecithin suspension inside the capsule wouldn't let it mix much at all. I ended up swallowing the little globule at the bottom of the glass. I didn't really mind the taste. It tasted like, well, dirt. Or the skin of an unwashed potato, which I guess would make sense? Finally, have also sipped about 1/4 tsp. epsom salts well diluted in water. It's still early to say, but I think the magnesium may be having a calming effect. No, or very minimal, GI issues with this (which is a surprise given my touchy GI system).

 

I have been taking a full teaspoon (or more) of High Vitamin Butter/Fermented Cod Liver Oil blend by Green Pasture http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/ButterCodLiverBlend/ since the fall of 2013. This largely on the recommendation of my therapist who believes it to be effective for her. I can't honestly say whether or not it has any positive effect on me, but I continue to take it, figuring it can't do any harm. Does anyone have an opinion on this brand? Or prefer another?

 

Since about January 2104, I have been drinking a tonic of 2 tsp. Braggs Organic Apple Cider Vinegar with 1-2 tsp. organic maple syrup mixed in water. http://www.bragg.com/ I have no idea if it's the enzymes in the vinegar, or what, but I do feel slightly "perkier" or refreshed when I drink it. And I seem to crave it daily. I don't think the acid content is an issue for my teeth (I usually follow with more water, and it's about what one consumes in salad dressing) but everyone will have their own opinion on that.

 

Questions: My biggest question, right now, is WHY the mornings from HELL? I have read and been counseled that this is common for "major depressive disorder," but that's fairly cold comfort. I want to understand why my body turns on my every, single morning. I practice fairly good sleep hygeine, and seem to sleep through the night, but the MOMENT I'm conscious of waking, I'm plunged into the pit. Of course, I'm on that horrible remeron and the .5 mg of lorazepam before bed, so I know that the "sleep" that I am getting is "cheap" (as I've seen it referred to here) and of a dismal quality. I hardly ever dream (a therapist tells me I do, but that the Remeron makes it so I don't remember them. Meh. I am NOT dreaming - I am sleeping that dead, zero-brain wave sleep) and when I do dream, they're uncomfortable, bordering on nightmares. I never, ever, ever feel rested, or refreshed. I've completely forgotten what that feels like. Of course, at least I sleep, which I know is the holy grail for many posting here, so I don't want to complain too much. But I know it's the quality of my sleep that is at least in part contributing to my horrible mornings.

 

Personal stuff: Rhi, thank you so much for your thoughtful words of a few days ago. I hope to write more, and get to know you better as time goes on. I still need to find time to read your story fully, but I can see simply from your signature that you get it. I do not honestly know how I ultimately survived the experience that I had with my mom that lead to my PTSD (not officially diagnosed but I don't need anyone to tell me that's what happened to me). And because of my upbringing, I am only now about 14 months into learning HOW to feel some very basic emotions, like grief and anger.

 

Meimei, thank you for your insights on the Wellbutrin taper. I may well be looking for, or asking you about, how to go about making a solution for Wellbutrin. For the moment, I'm staying the course with the cut up tablets... Because of your experience with Wellbutrin, you were one of the first people I read about here. I look to you and others who are making the commitment to the long, slow taper for inspiration.

 

Alto, thank you for your continued counsel and the calm that often seems to emanate just from your posts (even if I'm only projecting - it helps!) :lol:

 

I apologize for such dreadfully long posts. I imagine things become more streamlined once the initial "profile sharing" and similar details are taken care of.

 

I am so grateful for this website. It truly is the only place where I feel understood and, even more crucial, the only place I feel will give me the resources to be able to (eventually) reclaim my life.

 

Love and light

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

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Thank you, mirp.

 

The morning anxiety may be rebound from the benzo.

 

Also see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Narcissus Newbie

Narcissus

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Many of us have experienced morning anxiety while withdrawing/recovering from meds, I've heard people refer to them as 'cortisol mornings'.  They're terrible and jarring, a horrendous way to start a day.  

 

I don't remember many dreams since starting drugs either, except when I'm having a bad flare-up of withdrawal symptoms, then I have dreams that seem heated, nightmarish, electrical.  Sounds like you're experiencing something similar.

 

 

 

because of my upbringing, I am only now about 14 months into learning HOW to feel some very basic emotions, like grief and anger.

 

This seems like a very brave and honest admission.  Best of luck with this, and with withdrawal too.

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Narcissus, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. At 53, I am just now learning to live life on life's terms - acknlowedge reality, feel feelings, acceptance. This after a lifetime of denial (the very existence of which I, of course, denied) and allowing myself to fall victim to my mother's personality disorder. I'm in a 12-step program which helps me enormously.

 

I went on these meds so grudgingly because I was in a desperate, desperate state. My mother (89), despite being a very troubled person her entire life, is also incredibly talented, capable, with many admirable (even heroic) accomplishments to her name. Over the last 25 year's she's had a ping-pong relationship with paxil, tramadol, lorazepam, among other meds. I struggle now with guilt feelings over how much I cajoled her to stay on the paxil, even though she purported to hate it (never easy to tell with her, though, when she was lying). Of course, her illness was there before the meds, and I certainly can't take ownership of her own poor judgement.

 

Which brings me to your quotation, which I love. Having now been there (came through a potentially life-threatening illness last winter), I wholeheartedly concur. I would also add that these experiences have afforded me a measure of compassion for all troubled beings far beyond what I thought was an already profound compassion for humanity. The healthier part of all of this is that I am now learning that compassion does not, by definition, imply internalizing another's pain to the point of owning it for myself. That denies them their integrity and causes me needless suffering. I'm still, however, very much learning how to do that.

 

I wish you the very best of luck on your own challenging journey, and hope to know you better in the coming days.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Checking in. I hope all are doing as well as possible. Learning so much here.

 

Clinical stuff: Note to self - SUGAR IS NOT MY FRIEND. SUGAR IS NOT MY FRIEND. SUGAR IS NOT MY FRIEND.

 

Making changes to deal with cortisol mornings (i get up around 5:30 for work - ugh! But grateful I can manage it):

  • Have had black-out curtains for a long time, just b/c I'm highly sensitve. Realizing now, as I learn more about cortisol mornings, why even that first razor-thin shaft of dawn light hits my consciousness like a cattle prod.
  • This morning, immediately upon waking, took one Hyland's Calms tablet (I usually respond well to these) in an effort to alleviate what may be benzo withdrawal from the previous night's dose of lorazepam.
  • Kept all lighting to a minimum. Greatly reduced exposure to a.m. TV.
  • Took a very warm epsom salt bath in a darkened bathroom with only skylight for lighting.
  • Took one more Calms tablet with breakfast.
  • Moved even more slooowly than usual, keeping myself as "even" as possible throughout a.m. routine.

Amazingly, this all seemed to help somewhat. And by somewhat, I mean, a just-noticeable improvement of symptoms. Am I happy that I will apparently need to keep myself near-comatose in the morning to avoid a full-blown cortisol attack  - at least until I stabilize? NO. Do I prefer having to do that to experiencing the cortisol terror ride? YES.

 

QUESTIONS / PLEA FOR REASSURANCE:

I've "only" been on these meds for about 14 months which I know is a blip compared to some survivors' experience. But I am worried about the continued, protracted use of them that a long, slow taper requires. I must only be about the 1,400th person to ask this, and I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I really don't have much of a choice, do I? Best prognosis for successful, full recovery is to see this long, slow process through to resolution, however long it takes, right?

 

And, what was going on with my brain back in April that made me feel well enough to try the taper in the first place? Was that technically me "stabilizing?" Or was it a window? And, does that even really matter at this point?

 

Thank you all, so much!!

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Checking in.

 

Day 11 of Wellbutrin reinstatement. Mornings still difficult but today is a tiny bit better than yesterday, which was incrementally better than the day before. I'm beginning to think that I may be able to stabilize on 25 mg a day, which would be fantastic. MUCH better than my originally prescribed dosage of 150 mg. Still, taking this one day at a time...

 

I'm thinking to give 25 mg. about 6-8 weeks (barring any serious uptick of symptoms) before deciding whether or not it's enough. One of my therapists suggested waiting no more than 2 weeks with symptoms before increasing my dosage, but I can kind of tell he has no confidence that the 25 mg will have any effect at all. My experience since joining this community is that my symptoms are more manageable the more I understand what's actually causing them, so I feel better equipped to weather the storm. Knowledge is power, right? Of course, I'm having a tiny window-like afternoon, so of course I'm going to say that. :-P

 

Wishing everyone continued recovery, balance, and serenity.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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bubble Rookie

bubble

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Nice to hear from you.

 

I also very much share your impression that knowldge is power and that understanding what's going on and why (even if only sort of ;), makes things much more bearable for me. 

 

I just wanted to share with you my experience of reinstating. I reinstated 45 days (quite long) after "tapering" which was more of a CT. I stopped two drugs at the same time. So I knew from the very start that stabilising was going to be hard and it would take a lot of time. What helped me stick with the programme was the fact that I immediately upon reinstating felt like I stopped in the middle of a free fall (and remained hanging for quite some time). But I lived for those short windows that I would experience. They showed me I was on the right track.

 

I didn't set myself any targets of how long I would stay on a particular dose. I learnt I will have to listen very carefully to my brain that speaks through symptoms. I also found out that it is not so much a particular dose that helps us stabilise but ensuring our brain stability over time. (Contrary to what doctors say, I didn't feel there was a "therapeutic dose". Many people here feel much better after reinstating such a small amount of their drug that most doctors would dismiss as "clinically totally insignificant". In my case it took 4 months before I very gently started tapering again.

 

Looking at your signature, it's early days yet but it's very encouraging that you have windows. Very encouraging ;)

 

Now I see your previous question was left unanswered. I don't really have an answer but was also thinking that in order to safely come off medication I will have to take them much longer than I'd want to. But I see this as a process of negotiating a tapering schedule with your brain: better to start slow which is safe and then if this goes well, you can explore other possibilities and see whether your brain might accept a faster regime. It's very important to only make your changes very slowly and listen carefully to how your brain reacts to them by observing the symptoms. Since you were indeed taking the drug much shorter than most of us, it is possible your brain will allow you to taper faster. But your brain is the cheif authority on this. I hope this makes sense...

 

At the momemnt we are just focusing on stabilising and leaving tapering for a later date ;)

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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mlrp

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......But I lived for those short windows that I would experience. They showed me I was on the right track.

 

I didn't set myself any targets of how long I would stay on a particular dose. I learnt I will have to listen very carefully to my brain that speaks through symptoms. I also found out that it is not so much a particular dose that helps us stabilise but ensuring our brain stability over time. ...In my case it took 4 months before I very gently started tapering again.

 

...I see this as a process of negotiating a tapering schedule with your brain: better to start slow which is safe and then if this goes well, you can explore other possibilities and see whether your brain might accept a faster regime. It's very important to only make your changes very slowly and listen carefully to how your brain reacts to them by observing the symptoms. ...your brain is the cheif authority on this.

 

At the momemnt we are just focusing on stabilising and leaving tapering for a later date ;)

 

 

Dear Bubble (and you don't need to read this whole thing - I admit to digressing into a bit of a rant toward the end),

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. It helps so much to have it reinforced that this is a process, and I must be patient. You've helped me:

  • understand that staying on the meds is now the lesser of two evils (CT or too quick taper being the greater one)
  • realize that my brain is in charge and I need to trust it and take care of it, according to what it's telling me it needs

It's difficult, you know (of course you do) because:

  • I thought running marathons would be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I guess they inadvertently helped prepare me for this marathon journey I'm on now. It makes me weep that I've gained 30 lbs. and can't even go for a 30 min walk without becoming emotionally drained.
  • Back when I was in the psych's office, suffering a complete breakdown because of trauma dealing with my mom, and days on end without sleep, I really tried to reason, almost pleading, that there must be something other than these meds that could help me. I've always been very intuitive and followed my inner compass, but I was SO scared, and weak, and thinking I was going insane from lack of sleep, and the psychiatrist was so soothing, concerned, and persuasive, that I finally caved and took the meds. I may have been terrorized, slightly hysterical, and half crazy from lack of sleep, but I swear to God, I wasn't depressed until after I was on the Remeron for a few days. And ever since, it's been anxiety and depression like I've never experienced in my life. I feel I let myself down in agreeing to the meds, and now I'm paying the price.
  • Shortly after I started on the meds, I kept saying that it felt like I had "brain damage." Cognitive changes, vision issues, this weird cranial pressure that seems to never let up -- I can still almost literally feel the organ in my head trying desperately to cope with what's being done to it. I just felt like no one understood what I was trying to say, and I just kept taking the meds, hoping they would help lift me out of the problem that I'm now pretty convinced they were causing. I'm sure having PTSD was a large part of it, but I think the meds just took my already battered brain and kept beating it up.
  • I'm wondering, but this is for later, what, exactly "stabilization" feels like - and how my brain will tell me it's time to start a tiny taper.

So, none of this is to negate the good influence your post has had on me. I just think I have a lot of anger about this issue and how these meds are doled out like candy. It's actually down to my own good sense and intuitive resistance to these things (plus the horrible reactions I had to many drugs, including single doses of Lexapro and Trazadone) that I haven't ended up polydrugged. I should be, and am, grateful for this.

 

This too shall pass... One day at a time... Easy does it... Where I am is precisely where I am meant to be.

 

Thank you again, for your caring. I am just bowled over by the generosity of the members of this community such as yourself, and the mods and admins on this site - who give so much despite their own suffering.

 

Sorry to go on like this. It helps more than I can say to be able to release some of this sorrow and hurt in a place where people understand.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

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Checking in.

 

Clinical stuff:

  • Adding an eye mask for sleeping seems to help. Keeping my a.m. waking process sloooooow with minimal stimuli.
  • Continuing about 125 mg mag citrate, plus epsom salt soaks in the morning. 
  • Had a massage after work and am very surprised it relaxed me as much as it did. I thought the continued underlying anxiety would prevent me from really releasing into it. 

Question: I feel a little silly asking this, but does anyone have a spreadsheet for tracking progress that they would be willing to share? Or a link to one? It's probably a simpler thing than I'm making it in my head, but I would love to have a visual of my patterns and progress.

 

Right now I am a text book case of not being able to remember the good days (or hours) after they pass, or the bad ones, for that matter, with any clarity. I can barely even form a picture in my mind of what lead me to believe I was feeling well enough to taper the Wellbutrin in the first place. I do journal, but I'd like to add a graph, I think. 

 

Thank you, everyone. Love and light.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Petunia Newbie

Petunia

Posted
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Posted (edited)
 I feel a little silly asking this, but does anyone have a spreadsheet for tracking progress that they would be willing to share? Or a link to one? It's probably a simpler thing than I'm making it in my head, but I would love to have a visual of my patterns and progress.

 

 

Not silly at all,  I think this is a great idea.  I'm wondering too if anyone else has made or found something specifically for our situation.  I found some forms from a CFS/FM site which may work:

 

http://www.cfidsselfhelp.org/library/type/log_forms_worksheets

 

Thank you for your nice comment on my thread.  I'm glad you found our site and are finding it helpful.

 

Petu.

 

edit:  I found another symptoms spreadsheet you can download:  http://lymerick.net/symptomdiary.htm

Edited by Petu
added link

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Altostrata Grand Master

Altostrata

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted

Those are excellent, Petu, can you add them to http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

Posted
  • Author
Posted

These are great resources, and having thanked Petu on her thread for these ealier, allow me to thank her here now, as well. Much appreciated!

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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mlrp Rookie

mlrp

Posted
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Posted

Oh, my, that was embarrassing. Posted the above from my phone and didn't realize they were multiples. Not that Petu doesn't merit multiple thanks! :-P If a mod has time and is so inclined, please delete the extras. 

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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mammaP Newbie

mammaP

Posted
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Posted

Don't be embarrased, that is easy done with a mobile or tablet and easily sorted!  You have a

window of time after a post when you can delete or edit posts, but can't remember how long it is!

I think it's about 30 minutes, if you ever need to do that , just hover over the options next to the quote boxes

and the options will appear   :)

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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