Moderator brassmonkey Posted August 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2020 On the whole I find the idea of "Informed Consent" to be quite miss leading and when I'm in a mood just another CYA move on the part of the medical profession. Any medication or medical procedure is invasive and disruptive to the body in some manner. With the vast quantity and variation of human beings and the lack of knowledge of just how these medications and procedures truly affect the body it is impossible to predict how any one person will react to any medication or procedure. All we can hope for is that the benefits will outweigh the side effects and we can put up with the results, while saying "they did the best they could". Case in point. How many millions of gall bladder have been performed. It's a routine operation with very few problems. Who could have told me that I would have been in severe pain for 7 years after having two operations and three hospitalizations to correct a routine procedure performed by an expert in the field. And that I'd still be in pain from it 35 years later? So how can we possibly guess what is going to happen after a person has had their bodily systems scrambled by drugs for years and stops taking them? Especially when no one even knows how those drugs work. BTW I'm in a mood ATM. 2 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I don't think I've ever been given enough information for informed consent. Not just ADs, everything. 2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012 January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg 2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg, July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg) 2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised probably on more like 1.8mg and poss mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4, continued monthly 10% drops until 1mg, then dropped 0.1mg monthly. May 2022,0.1mg, now dropping 0.01mg per week 29 August 2022 - first day of zero! My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/21/ Current: Armour Thyroid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted August 24, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 24, 2020 I know how you feel bubbles. Since joining SA, I've been giving the doctors information/suggestions and not just regarding psychiatric drugs either. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persistente Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 i do not personally see any benefit of informed consent, in any procedure, especially not in mental health field. i do not see how i was supposed to imagine what kind of pain i was going to experience when i can not even describe it to few people who are interested to hear about it... 3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects 1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered) 7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues 4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision) 12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell 2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia 6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper) 9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper) waves and windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crochet Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I noticed in previous articles that Dr. Shipko discusses tardive akathisia but notes that it presents differently from the traditional movement disorder. Is the akathisia that he speaks of actually the CNS alerting system being set of? He also talks about reinstatement bringing people back to baseline faster than if they wait it out. Is this because the brain will take less time to 'heal' from the alerting response with the drug in their system? 2012-present - Escitalopram currently 2.55 mg Supplements: Daytime- Green Lipped Mussel 1200mg, Omega-3s 1710mg, Wheat Germ Oil 770mg, Sodium Butyrate 1.2g, Phosphatidylcholine 2600mg, Multi-Min 2 tablets, Liposomal Glutathione 4 pumps, Probiotic 1 capsule, Beyond Balance herbal tinctures for lyme and gut healing (including one only taken during menstruation); Nighttime - L-theanine 200mg, melatonin 1mg, magnesium glycinate 400mg. History: 2012-2017- Escitalopram 10mg 2017-2020 - Escitalopram 5mg 07/2019-11/2019 - Valium 10mg, every 2-3 days, then stopped 11/2020 - Stopped Escitalopram 5mg abruptly (crashed January 2021) 1/2021-12/2021 - Escitalopram Reinstated 2.5mg to 5 to 10 to 7.5 and then started slow taper 1/2021-2/2021 - Ativan .5mg - Took 13.5 pills over the course of 22 days and stopped 2/2021-9/2021 Hydroxyzine - 50-100mg tapering down to .8mg, then cross-tapered to Claritin and stopped 9/2021-9/2022 - Claritin 5 mg (tapered off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saimshah Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 @Crochet just trying to touch base with you. how are you feeling now ? are your wd symtoms getting better ? 2010 citanew 10mg ct after 6 monthes 2015 citanew 10mg ct after 5 to 6 monthes April 2020 xanax .25 mg ct after 1 month April 2020 citanew 10mg ct August 2020 several wd , insomnia, anxiety, fear, muscle spasm, weakness on left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus getofflex Posted October 16, 2021 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 16, 2021 On 12/31/2014 at 3:03 PM, Rhiannon said: Dr. Shipko is smarter about withdrawal and more right on than the vast majority of docs, but he doesn't seem to have much experience with the kind of really long, slow taper that some of us are getting such good results with here. The biggest problem with the long slow taper is that so few people are really prepared to put the kind of commitment and determination into it that it requires. I find this very reassuring. I listened to a podcast by Dr Shipko on Medicating Normal (on Youtube) where he said that some of his patients got akathisia several months after jumping to zero, even after a proper slow taper, with minimal symptoms during the taper. I found this disturbing, to say the least, especially since I myself am close to the finish line. But perhaps Shipko's idea of a proper slow taper is different than SA's. This tells me I'm just going to take my sweet time getting off the rest of this drug, and it doesn't matter how much longer it takes. I hope my doctor is willing to continue to prescribe it for me. Please do not private message me. Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you. ***Please note this is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one. Lexapro Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg; started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20 0.18 mg; Jul 16 0.17 mg, Aug 23 0.16 mg, Oct 7 0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005, Jul 8, 0.00. Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!! Woohoo!!! other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1290 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 I spoke with Dr. Shipko today. I'd recommend him to anyone seeking a doctor's advice that knows what he's talking about when it comes to tapering. I found him very approachable and quick to point out the limitations of his more difficult to accept observations. I felt like he was direct and honest, and his recommendations matched my experience tapering off of Effexor for years, and he was not rigidly bound to any rules, he was very open minded. He's the first doctor I've talked to about tapering from ADs that I left feeling better after we spoke. Really a positive experience. I am not a doctor and do not offer any medical advice, only my own experience. Consult your physician. 2011-2015 tapered off 300MG of Effexor. Back in the Paxil Progress days. No rebound. 2005-2021: 450 mg Bupropion XL Daily 2021 Buporopion May 450mg/June 400mg/July 375mg/Aug 10th 360mg/ 2021 Dec - 150mg IR, 3x day = 450mg Bup, Heritage manufacturer-yellow color pill. 2022 May 3 - 3 x 150mg IR Bup, Avet brand(pharmacist said they merged with Heritage-orange color) -migraines REINSTATED-BACK TO MY LAST STABLE DOSE/TIME RELEASE 2022 June 5 - switched back to 3 x 150mg XL one time per day= 450 mg total Bup-Apotex brand CURRENT TAPER 2022 Aug 31 - 450MG to 412MG IR Bup//Sep. 28, 2022: 412mg to 375mg//Oct 26, 2022: 375mg to 365 mg//Nov 21, 2022: 365mg to 327mg//Dec 27, 2022: 327 mg to 290 mg//Dec 31, 2022: 290mg to 262mg//Jan 28, 2023: 262mg to 190mg//Feb. 19, 2023: 190mg to 140mg//Mar. 18, '23: 140mg to 100mg// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortugueseSea Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 This interview with Dr. Shipko dates from 2021, hope it is helpful, and hopeful, to people: 1 December 2021 - Metoclopramide started. Akathisia symptoms start; Metoclopramide gets changed to PRN. March 2022 - Akathisia diagnosed; Metoclopramide stopped; Propranolol 10mg x twice a day. Biperiden PRN (0.5mg to 1mg). April 2022 - Tandospirone 30mg (10mg 3x day), Quetiapine 25mg (only taken once, immediate adr). Mirtazapine 7.5mg. . Discontinued Propranolol. May 2022 - Mirtazapine upped to 15mg. Tandospirone cut to 2x 10mg. Low dose Depakote for the month; 100 to 200 to 100 to 0. Mirtazapine cut back to 11.75mg (3/4 of a 15mg pill).June 2022 - Mirtazapine updose to 15mg. Tandospirone, Biperiden discontinued. Klonopin started PRN (0.5mg). September 2022 - Akathisia slowly starts improving, WD/ADR normal sets in in mid September. Hold for 4 months.March 2023 - Off mirtazapine; no Klonopin for 5 months either! Started quercetin (250mg x 2) to soften the histamine rebound. May 2023 - Stopped quercetin and changed from magnesium carbonate to oxide - reacted badly. Reverted back to carbonate. June 2023 - Added fish oil.Current regimen: CALM Magnesium (Carbonate into Citrate) 175mg x2; Vitamin E 268mg x2; Fish oil (100mg Omega3; EPA 30mg; DHA 37mg)x2 Intro thread: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/27095-portuguesesea-metoclopramide-akathisia-and-mirtazapine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortugueseSea Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 I talked with Dr. Shipko over the phone regarding my metoclopramide induced akathisia. He recommended... time. We argued that it was well I was on Remeron but should not stay on for too long, he advised rapid discontinuation or, if my condition rapidly deteriorated, starting a taper. Beyond that he recommended that I could take Klonopin to get through the unbearable days and, if I was desperate, be put on Klonopin which would eventually be tapered off. He also mentioned, and he does it again on the video I posted, that he knew nobody who hadn't recovered almost fully of akathisia after 6 to 7 years. I am currently very slowly stabilizing and anxious to start my remeron taper. As per the advice of this forum, I have moved part of my dose to the morning and am doing a big better. Slow wins the race I guess... 1 December 2021 - Metoclopramide started. Akathisia symptoms start; Metoclopramide gets changed to PRN. March 2022 - Akathisia diagnosed; Metoclopramide stopped; Propranolol 10mg x twice a day. Biperiden PRN (0.5mg to 1mg). April 2022 - Tandospirone 30mg (10mg 3x day), Quetiapine 25mg (only taken once, immediate adr). Mirtazapine 7.5mg. . Discontinued Propranolol. May 2022 - Mirtazapine upped to 15mg. Tandospirone cut to 2x 10mg. Low dose Depakote for the month; 100 to 200 to 100 to 0. Mirtazapine cut back to 11.75mg (3/4 of a 15mg pill).June 2022 - Mirtazapine updose to 15mg. Tandospirone, Biperiden discontinued. Klonopin started PRN (0.5mg). September 2022 - Akathisia slowly starts improving, WD/ADR normal sets in in mid September. Hold for 4 months.March 2023 - Off mirtazapine; no Klonopin for 5 months either! Started quercetin (250mg x 2) to soften the histamine rebound. May 2023 - Stopped quercetin and changed from magnesium carbonate to oxide - reacted badly. Reverted back to carbonate. June 2023 - Added fish oil.Current regimen: CALM Magnesium (Carbonate into Citrate) 175mg x2; Vitamin E 268mg x2; Fish oil (100mg Omega3; EPA 30mg; DHA 37mg)x2 Intro thread: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/27095-portuguesesea-metoclopramide-akathisia-and-mirtazapine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranqdart Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 On 7/30/2011 at 11:10 AM, Altostrata said: Dr. Stuart Shipko (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/677-communications-with-dr-stuart-shipko/page__p__6160__hl__shipko__fromsearch__1#entry6160) will diagnose it for insurance purposes but he doesn't know how to treat it. He is in Southern California. I found Dr Shipko on YouTube when WD symptoms first started to scare me. He was kind enough to get on the phone with me, but could not accept me as a patient. He said people will disable themselves to get off these drugs - I could stick it out or go back on. "Go back on and try to get off it again?" I asked. He said "Or just stay on it." Maybe taking my age (63) and long usage history (20+ years) into account. Really, he was being generous to make any time for me, but I thought SA should know this is the advice I got. Tranq Dart Mary 1998: 20 mg fluoxetine for a few months; quit cold turkey 2002-2015: 10 mg escitalopram for 13 years; quit cold turkey (disastrously) 2016-2021: 10 mg escitalopram for 6 years after a break of several months; tapered 254 days starting Nov 30 2021, last dose Aug 9 2022; withdrawal symptoms started in Sept 2022. Supplements: Morning: Fish oil, magnesium, b6, b12, calcium citrate, C, D3, valerian Evening: magnesium and topical melatonin for sleep *Feb/23: quit valerian; **2/21/23-moved magnesium to evening; *** 4/17/23-stopped supplementing b6, b12, d3. Mostly whole food *2/5/23: quit alcohol; **3/13/23: quit coffee and tea but not chocolate or sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted March 13, 2023 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 13, 2023 Thanks for sharing your communications with Dr. Shipko @Tranqdart I just moved you into the topic about those communications. I don't think he is taking on any withdrawal patients, and may actually be retired or semi-retired. Some of the posts here are hopeful above...... Best. L, P, H, and G, mmt Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 13, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Tranqdart said: Really, he was being generous to make any time for me, but I thought SA should know this is the advice I got. Yes, we know. In Dr. Shipko's opinion, the risk of serious post-discontinuation symptoms is so great that he recommends people simply stay on the drugs if they're not otherwise troublesome. Your call whether this suits you. We have people here who have successfully quit. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranqdart Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 14 hours ago, Altostrata said: Yes, we know. In Dr. Shipko's opinion, the risk of serious post-discontinuation symptoms is so great that he recommends people simply stay on the drugs if they're not otherwise troublesome. Your call whether this suits you. We have people here who have successfully quit. I'm suffering terribly but also noticing some benefits of quitting Lex. Namely, I'm more inclined to face my problems and less lackadaisical, for lack of a better word. When WD symptoms got bad a month after my last 0.25mg dose, I promised myself I could go back on if I wasn't feeling better by this or that date. Now though, I'm more committed to living without this filthy poison coloring my experience. Thank you so much for all the support and encouragement. 1 Tranq Dart Mary 1998: 20 mg fluoxetine for a few months; quit cold turkey 2002-2015: 10 mg escitalopram for 13 years; quit cold turkey (disastrously) 2016-2021: 10 mg escitalopram for 6 years after a break of several months; tapered 254 days starting Nov 30 2021, last dose Aug 9 2022; withdrawal symptoms started in Sept 2022. Supplements: Morning: Fish oil, magnesium, b6, b12, calcium citrate, C, D3, valerian Evening: magnesium and topical melatonin for sleep *Feb/23: quit valerian; **2/21/23-moved magnesium to evening; *** 4/17/23-stopped supplementing b6, b12, d3. Mostly whole food *2/5/23: quit alcohol; **3/13/23: quit coffee and tea but not chocolate or sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Catina7 Posted October 4, 2023 Mentor Share Posted October 4, 2023 https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/10/ten-years-later-still-shooting-the-odds/ 2 Disclaimer: This is not professional medical advice but is based on personal experience only. 1994 - 2017: Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Seroquel, Buspar, Lorazepam, Xanax, Ambien 2005-present: Trazodone 50 mg 2017: Effexor XR 37.5 >> 75 mg 2020 (March): Began 10% monthly taper of Effexor XR (got down to 12 mg) 2021 (September): Completely crashed. Went back up to 37.5 mg but in doing so I kindled myself 2024: 1/1: 35.6 mg (-6 beads) | 2/1: 33.8 mg (-11 beads) | 3/1: 32.1 mg (-16 beads) | 4/1: (-18 beads) Reasons for starting psych meds: PMDD/Depression, Generalized Anxiety Disorder Other medications: Levothyroxine 75 mcg Supplements: Dr. Berg's Electrolyte Powder on occasion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelarz71 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 The above thread changed my thinking a bit, because after going off 2.5 mg of escitalopram, I felt fine for 3 months and only then did everything break down, and the big reintroduction of 5 mg made my stomach hurt. I understand that I developed late akathisia and disability, although the nomenclature doesn't change anything. PS the motto is as said here on the site here about the collapsing building, at my place it collapsed 3 mths later than before 2022 escitalopram from July 25 2.5 mg, 5 mg, 10 mg August-December- 7.5 mg, 5 mg, (1 month) 2.5 mg - C/T WD 2023 Short reinstatement from WD date: escitalopram May 25-June 12 5 mg, 2.5 mg plus interrupted Reinstatement 24 07.23 0.5mg escitalopram, 18.08.23 0.22 escitalopram, 07.09. 0.28 Now 0.30 mg escitalopram Last year 6 months on escitalopram, I was very agitated, hypomaniacal and with little need for sleep. Since July 2023 reinstated and reduced from 0.50 mg to 0.30 mg Lexapro - difficulty sleeping and lack of sleep, eye pain and IBS. Anhedonia. November 2023 - 0mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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