Barbarannamated Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Another theory is that getting off throws the brain in a psychosis-like state which actually does the damage. I got psychotic after 4-5 months off. Could someone please elaborate on this theory and provide resources such as links to substantiate it?This may be the missing piece of the puzzle I've been looking for all this time. I have a little trouble with "psychosis-like state". From what I understand, psychosis is a clear break with reality. That said, I have definitely felt like I was on a slippery slope throughout this - the perceptual distortions are very strong and cause an unrealness that is frightening. Judgment is tweaked. Perception of time is off - one day will go so s-l-o-w-l-y I feel I can hear every second tick by. Other days fly by, regardless of activity/busyness. I like the flybys. I don't mean to minimize this, but caution the use of the term "psychosis". That could get a new diagnosis and new medication. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 13, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've never heard of this "psychosis-like state" theory. Perhaps Claudius can clarify. I agree with Barb. As far as I know, it's not psychosis, it's autonomic nervous system dysfunction. It would be a very long hypothetical stretch to call it psychosis, or indeed any psychiatric disorder. In fact, adverse effects are often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder and medicated unmercifully with all kinds of drug cocktails, much to the detriment of the patient. In an alternative universe inhabited by some psychiatrists, psychosis lives next door to bipolar disorder. But adverse effects are none of the above. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelMaven Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm interested in this part: Another theory is that getting off throws the brain in a psychosis-like state which actually does the damage. I want to know if sudden withdrawal that lasted several months can lead to permanent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 13, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 13, 2012 Nobody has been able to answer that. We know for a fact that people do recover from prolonged withdrawal syndrome. It can take years, but they do recover. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelMaven Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Oh My God. This is NOT happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1985 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Does Dr Shipko try to taper someone off their current AD, using the 10% 3-6 weeks rule, and just stop if it gets bad? Or does he try the Prozac bridge, etc before giving up? 2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 13, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 13, 2012 All of the above. He's very skilled at tapering. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I see to my pleasure that dr. Shipko has joined the board. I send him a mail last year and his reaction was the one that my neurologist convinced that there was at least a probability of persistend withdrawal effects from Paxil. So I want to welcome him to the board and thank him for his help. I hope more doctors will join and hope that something will change. 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've never heard of this "psychosis-like state" theory. Perhaps Claudius can clarify. I agree with Barb. As far as I know, it's not psychosis, it's autonomic nervous system dysfunction. It would be a very long hypothetical stretch to call it psychosis, or indeed any psychiatric disorder. In fact, adverse effects are often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder and medicated unmercifully with all kinds of drug cocktails, much to the detriment of the patient. In an alternative universe inhabited by some psychiatrists, psychosis lives next door to bipolar disorder. But adverse effects are none of the above. This "theory" was just a thought of mine. I got off about 5-6 times and got terribly sick but felt perfectly well again weeks after reinstating. In fact too well, because I was not triggered to do my investigation for which I paid a terrible price. But my thought was that the damage is not done immediately because in that case, reinstating would not take the symptoms away. It took a few months after my final quit that I start to hallucinate, and my worst trauma from the past (about bullying) rose its ugly head and nearly drove me to murder. I think back of that period as a form of psychosis. But is is a speculation, nothing more. I am now over 4.5 years post CT and still not recovered although there is still progression and I guess I will finally heal from it, at least physically/neurologically. If the damage to my career is repairable is still uncertain after being completely unable to work for years and still not able to embark in a fulltime job. Dr. Shipko tells that he is not able to treat people who are already too long in WD, past the point of reinstatating and that means I still did the right thing by not reinstating when WD did not subside after months though I first promised myself to "give it one half year", and later "give it one year", but when I still felt miserable after a year I did not reinstate because, though still totally unaware of protracted WD, I realized that these was NOT my original condition and the had to be some connection with my Paxil use. Moreover, I know that if I would reinstate after one year suffering, that would be my final surrender to PAxil and in that case I would have preferred death. Maybe I still saved my life by listening to that realization... 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelMaven Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Dr. Shipko tells that he is not able to treat people who are already too long in WD, past the point of reinstatating.... ....I know that if I would reinstate after one year suffering, that would be my final surrender to PAxil and in that case I would have preferred death. So protracted withdrawal is why the drug no longer works to reinstate. How long of a protracted withdrawal would it take before the drug could not be reinstated? I know that no matter what happens I know I will find peace in the end. Either I will die from a seizure while in withdrawal or I will go so psychotic that I don't know what I am doing and I'll kill myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 14, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 14, 2012 It's unclear what the window for reinstatement is. The sooner, the better. The longer, the more iffy. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelMaven Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 It's unclear what the window for reinstatement is. The sooner, the better. The longer, the more iffy. So after the SDS for two months they put me on the Prozac and tapered me back up. I did not respond to 20mg so they went to 40mg. I wonder if this will make SSRI withdrawal harder next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 14, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 14, 2012 Your complex history with being overmedicated and going on and off drugs has completely changed the landscape. There's no way to predict how it will go. Your system has probably been sensitized so you should plan to wean off Prozac very slowly. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelMaven Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Your complex history with being overmedicated and going on and off drugs has completely changed the landscape. There's no way to predict how it will go. Your system has probably been sensitized so you should plan to wean off Prozac very slowly. Yes, you are quite correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Dr. Shipko tells that he is not able to treat people who are already too long in WD, past the point of reinstatating.... I've left 2 email messages with Dr. S over the last month+ to try to get appointment and received no response. Several months ago he responded very quickly to a general message,. not request for appointment. I hope it's not because of being too far out/protracted. I will call. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1985 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I really hope he's wrong when he says there are some people who can never come off their antidepressant. I also hope I'm not one of them. 2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 I really hope he's wrong when he says there are some people who can never come off their antidepressant. I also hope I'm not one of them. If you need encouragement, I got off of 4 psych meds. I am not going to lie and say it was easy. Just take it very slowly. Barb, keep us posted about Dr. Shipko. Many doctors seem to be bad about responding to email so hopefully, that is what you encountered. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 21, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 21, 2012 Recently had a conversation with Dr. Stuart Shipko. He believes recovery from psych drug-induced neurotoxicity can take up to 8 years. About benzo withdrawal: He challenges Ashton's received wisdom that a crossover to diazepam is standard procedure. He said some people can't tolerate the crossover. He wrote the e-book to explain you can directly taper from an benzo without the transfer. He contradicts Ashton's resistance to holding or updosing (this may be where the weird misinterpretation of "tolerance withdrawal" comes from. He said she inherited this position from heroin withdrawal procedures, in which you NEVER want to give the addict more of the drug. He also opposes Ashton's recommendation of using an antidepressant to counter benzo withdrawal. He said all his anxiety patients got worse on antidepressants. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 21, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 21, 2012 Dr. Shipko has a series of 11 (undated) interviews on Power Surge, "A Warm and Caring Community for Women in Menopause" Among other subjects, he discusses benzo and antidepressant side effects and withdrawal. The most recent is here http://www.power-surge.com/transcripts/shipko11.htm , with links to the other transcripts at the bottom. 1 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 I wanted to know what you all thought about the discussion going on at the other site regarding someone who did a telephone consult with Dr. Shipko and was given the pessimistic outlook that many people are still suffering after 7 years. Of course, that didn't sit too well with the usual characters. I thought that last poster in the thread made made a good point about withholding the negatives about withdrawal is like what doctors used to do about cancer and if that was currently done, it would be considered paternalistic. Obviously, I don't think we want to dwell on it but it just doesn't seem right to me to deny that many people can still suffer big time after many years. What do you all think? CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 6, 2013 Administrator Share Posted April 6, 2013 I've had conversations with Dr. S. about this. He believes in full disclosure of the risks. Personally, I think he leans a little too much on the negative (Dr. P thinks this, too), but he wants to be absolutely honest, which is commendable. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted April 7, 2013 Author Share Posted April 7, 2013 I've had conversations with Dr. S. about this. He believes in full disclosure of the risks. Personally, I think he leans a little too much on the negative (Dr. P thinks this, too), but he wants to be absolutely honest, which is commendable. Thanks Alto. I guess it is hard to find exactly the right balance. That is why Dr. P sounds like a great doctor as he seems to approach things just right. Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 I had a light bulb moment after getting annoyed with a poster on an apnea board who has decided it is her mission to always remind people that apnea is progressive over the years even though it looks like the risk factors are weight gain and age, particularly for women after menopause. In other words, it isn't a given even though what she says can't be denied. Anyway, she does this no matter even though the OP didn't ask about the risk over the years. I find it very annoying and have called her on it to no avail. All of a sudden, it made me realize why people get very annoyed at dire predictions for getting off of psych meds. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 8, 2013 Administrator Share Posted April 8, 2013 Yeah. Hey, Dr. P is an inveterate optimist. Sometimes I wonder about him! (But he's been pretty accurate so far for me....) This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Yeah. Hey, Dr. P is an inveterate optimist. Sometimes I wonder about him! (But he's been pretty accurate so far for me....) Like I have previously mentioned, too bad he can't be cloned. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) What do you all think about this MIA blog entry by Dr. Shipko on WD? Not exactly optimistic. http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/ CS Administrator note: Be sure to read this clarification of Dr. Shipko's piece http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4787-mia-blog-entry-by-dr-shipko-on-wd/?p=60372 Edited December 15, 2018 by ChessieCat added admin note AS/CC bolded Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted August 12, 2013 Administrator Share Posted August 12, 2013 I disagree with Dr. Shipko. And we see people recovering from this syndrome all the time. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I've now left several comments...I think he's acted totally irresponsibly. And I said so. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Shipko has responded to many folks but has neglected to respond to my critical comments...I find this interesting..perhaps he's thinking about how to do it... hmmm Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hopefull Shipko has responded to many folks but has neglected to respond to my critical comments...I find this interesting..perhaps he's thinking about how to do it... hmmm Hopefully, that is the situation because you definitely raised some points that deserve a response. I will be honest though about admitting that I am not as upset about his blog entry as most people are. I am not sure why. Maybe because it seems my life has gone downhill greatly since I started tapering off of these meds so what Shipko was stating wasn't a great shock. I mean, I really had no choice but to taper them since I was suffering horrible side effects. But to be honest, if someone had forcasted the troubles I would go through before tapering, it would have made me think extra hard about whether I wanted to do this or not. I still would have but at least, having the discussion would have been helpful. I think also I wonder if I had stayed on the meds and had been diagnosed with sleep apnea, if it would have been easier to adjust to sleeping on the machine since I wouldn't have been dealing with withdrawal insomnia. But I know there is no guarantee I would have been diagnosed with it if I had stayed on the meds. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 CS, I had a similar reaction. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 CS,I had a similar reaction. Barb, Thanks for letting me know I am not alone in having the reaction that I did. I am sorry you have to deal with similar type issues. It is just sad that no matter how we feel about what was written, we are left hanging on our own to struggle. Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 it’s not that I don’t think some people don’t completely recover…but Shipko is saying it unequivocally as though it were written in stone and must be…the fact is if everyone were given appropriate supports to learn and apply the things I and a great many of us are learning and applying those who aren’t recovering very well might start improving… there are very few people who can address these issues as broadly and holistically as necessary on their own and until there are professionals that can competently help people do that along with holding a space of healing hope, then yeah, we’re gonna have people not making it or taking far longer than necessary…but right now we have no proof that there is necessarily anything inherently permanent about the condition …from my view it’s a massive challenge that may very well be more than some can take…at this moment without meaningful supports he was not responsible to not make such nuance clear. he clearly doesn't even have the skills to help people. he brings up tryptophan and SAME-e...well yeah, that ain't gonna cut it. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Absolutely, Gia. There is an infinite number of confounding factors in the overall picture. I THINK Dr. Shipko seems to be using the forum to warn of worst case scenario and is one of very few doctors who has jumped into a conversation with "citizen scientists" (not fond of that term). The other docs will write about it (Breggin, Healy, etc), but few have actually dialogued in a very open and active forum (that I'm aware of). For that, I give Dr.Shipko credit. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meimeiquest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Maybe I am lost in neuro-emotion right now. I thought I had signed off from SA, but I have to come back. I was infuriated by this article. Not that I don't doubt for one minute that the problem is as bad as he says, but basically he said I have worked with this disorder for many years, and there is no chemical we can put in the brain that helps, so I am announcing that there is no hope for difficult cases. Citizen scientists who think otherwise don't even have the name of the disorder right. I think Mr. Edison has discovered one thousand ways not to make a lightbulb...a noteworthy achievement, but certainly not the end of the story. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted August 14, 2013 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 14, 2013 I have to say that if I hadn't been here and learned what I have, I would have been in despair after reading Dr Shipko's article. It is the hope gained from the people here who are recovering that has given me some hope. If I read that BEFORE I started tapering I would have felt doomed to solitary confinement and zombi-ism for the rest of my life. And If I'd read it in full blown withdrawal I would have been actively suicidal, I'm sure I would. **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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