DazedNConfused: Amys Story

[DazedNConfused]

Hi,

I'm Amy and this is my story. You'll have to bear with me, as a lot of it is a blur.

 

I have been on and off antidepressants since I was about 17, and my best friend died of heart failure (he was just 20 with no history of heart problems - being 'depressed' about it was an understatement).

 

Being young and uneducated about such medications, I would take them for a couple of months, then stop taking them cold turkey. I had no problems doing this and no adverse affects.

 

Fast forward 10 years, and I found myself in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic, and pregnant. I was do depressed at the situation i had gotten myselg in i was put on antidepressants for the duration of my pregnancy. Again, i quit cold turkey after delivery.

 

After I had my baby, I developed a drinking problem purely due to the fact that it was easier to cope with the abuse while drunk than it was sober. When my child was 6 months old I fled my relationship, but continued drinking excessively because I had developed a full-blown addiction.

 

After 2 of the worst years of my life, I quit drinking cold turkey and suffered some pretty crazy withdrawal symptoms from that. I was referred to a psychologist and put on Remeron (can't remember the dose... sorry) to kill 2 birds - insomnia and depression. I think I took it for about a few weeks (I think. Not 100% sure), but quit cold turkey because it was causing me to sleep until midday and made me so groggy. I couldn't have that because I had a toddler to get up to during the night and early in the mornings.

 

About a week later, my doc decided to put me on a small dose of Cymbalta (again, can't remember the dose). The next morning I took my first dose and exactly 6 hours later (delayed release pills) BAM! Panic attack. I'd never had one in my life so I knew it was associated with the ADs.

 

I haven't touched one since, and that was almost 2 years ago. In that time I have had any and every withdrawal symptom daily, and although most are diminishing veeeeerrrryyyy slowly, I'm still suffering in a big way. I'm seriously concerned that I may have given myself permanent brain damage.

 

I joined this forum to find some hope. Some answers. Some light.

 

Theres much more to the story, but typing on my phone is difficult and my eyes aren't focusing so well.

 

Thank you for listening

 

Amy

[dalsaan]

Hi Amy,

 

Welcome to the forum.  I am another Aussie.  When you get a chance can you complete your signature with the key details

 

This link tells you how to do that. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Also, what are your current symptoms, how long have you had them, are they changing?   Providing a bit more detail will helps us think through the support we can offer.  

 

Its a rough journey but you have found some fellow travellers.  

 

take care

 

Dalsaan

[mammaP]

Hi Amy, wow that is a roller coaster you have been on!  It sounds like you are suffering from withdrawal from remeron,

then had a bad reaction to the cymbalta.   Are you still off the alcohol? Many have found AA to be very helpful, even

years after  quitting.  There are many here who will relate to your story and be able to support you. 

You are among friends here 

[DazedNConfused]

Hi guys,

 

I put some basic info in my signature for you.

 

Yes, it has been an absolute nightmare. I try not to associate my negative experience with the conception of my child, but lets face it, that's when it all began....

 

I have been clean of all drugs (except nicotine) since Jan 2013 and quit drinking alcohol CT about 3 weeks before I started taking Remeron. I've been sober since.

 

I'll try to list all my symptoms for you:

 

Initially: 

• Complete and absolute loss of appetite - I lost 25kgs (55lbs) in under a month and couldn't stomach the thought of any food for a good 12 months. I'm only just starting to get my appetite back now.
• Daily nausea - Not so much anymore, but for the same 12 months I literally couldn't eat, I was battling intense nausea to the point I couldn't leave the house for fear of vomiting in public or having to find a bathroom quickly. I was on anti nausea medication for a good portion of that 12 months just to get out of bed in the morning.
• Depersonalisation/Derealisation - Self explanatory. Everything was dull in colour, and I literally felt like I was floating around not really paying attention to anyone/anything. Nothing felt real. It was all pretty much like a dream state.
• Lightheadedness/Feeling like I'm going to vomit or faint - Possibly due to the fact that I couldn't eat, but still there for a good chunk of time. Still get waves of it.
• Hand and body tremors - Pretty bad for about 12 months.
• Feeling cold all the time - I still get this one to this day. I can never seem to warm up. Constantly shivering and chilled to the bone.
• Intense anger - This one is a biggie for me. I've always been a placid person who wouldn't hurt a fly. Since I quit Remeron, I have physically hit people, punched holes in walls, kicked things and am constantly screaming at my child (which I hate, hate, HATE doing.)
• Physical and mental exhaustion - Everyday is a struggle to find the energy to do basic everyday things. As a result my personal appearance has taken a major hit.
• Short term and some long term memory loss - I seriously can't remember what I did yesterday and I am CONSTANTLY losing my phone and keys. Constantly!
• Loss of libido - Come near me with a penis and I will chop it off. Not interested. This one depresses me no end.
• General loss of lust for life and activities I once loved to do - I don't do anything now. No motivation to even put a foot out the door (although I do force myself to)

The list goes on and on and on. All the docs I've seen tell me it's just rebound depression and to go back on meds. I REALLY don't want to do that.

[tezza]

Hi Amy and welcome to the forum. I'm very sorry you're still going through all this. I recently left off two drugs and reinstated one, started another. I'm dealing with most of those same symptoms (excluding the appetite, it came back with taking the drugs). Many others here are too.

 

You will get lots of loving support here! These are sincerely, good people in this group.

[DazedNConfused]

Hi and thanks for the welcome. I often consider reinstating meds, but then I think I've come this far (a year and a half), and I don't want to go through that initial hell again. Although things are bad now, they were much worse at the beginning *shudder*

 

Also, part of me wonders if I'm confusing prolonged Remeron withdrawal brain damage with the damage from the alcoholism... Hmmmm....

[Petunia]

Hi Amy,

Welcome from me too, yet another Aussie.  I read through your list of symptoms and have/had them all, apart from the uncontrollable anger, although when I tried to take prozac, while already in withdrawal, feelings of rage started to occur, so I stopped.

 

I have to disagree with your docs that this is rebound depression, I have all these symptoms and never had depression before going on an anti-depressant, I had anxiety, but nothing anywhere near like what I've experienced in withdrawal.  I've also never been an alcoholic or ever drank much.  These symptoms are classic withdrawal, a destabilized nervous system and/or adverse drug effects.

 

I think you are safe to assume that this is prolonged reaction, caused by drugs, possibly exacerbated by alcohol, but it will will get better over time.

 

Have a look through our symptoms and self care section, especially the pinned topics at the top, you will find a lot of helpful information and ideas to help you manage as you continue to recover:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

Its a good sign that you have improved, this will continue, probably in a windows and waves kind of pattern, see the link for more information about how this works.

 

Petu.

[DazedNConfused]

Hi and thanks for your reply.

 

I will write a proper response tomorrow. I just wanted to acknowledge you, say hi and thank you.

 

Today has been a really really bad day emotionally. I'm over it.

[NoMeaning25]

Hi Amy

 

 

Im so sorry that you had to go through all of this. I have much the same symptoms as you and i am 2 years off. I am in an abusive relationship and trying to free myself. Its been hard.

I was put on antidepressants at the age of 19. Also a very young age.

 

Feel free to pm me if you would like to talk

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Dazed.

Some people suffer fairly immediate intense adverse effects with antidepressants and other serotonergics. It sounds like you are one of them.

We have several people here who had similar experiences and long recovery. The symptoms are very much like withdrawal syndrome. But you can get better. See our Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[Altostrata]

Dazed, how are you doing?

 

Aussies, please check in here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6284-australia-members-please-check-in-here/

[DazedNConfused]

Well, since I posted last, it has been one hell of a roller coaster of emotions. There was a period of time mid last month when I thought I was seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I was starting to have more "good" days than bad. Getting a glimpse of my perception of normalcy (I actually don't know what normal is anymore, so I'm guessing)

 

Nope.

 

My anxiety has sprung up again. After close to 6 months (ish) of being panic attack free, I have been getting them quite frequently over the last week and a half. No change in circumstances to warrant an attack. My moods have become quite bipolar-esque switching from extreme highs to extreme lows approximately 4-5 times a day. My anger is completely out of control. I'm scared. I've never had such frequent extreme mood swings before. Smiling, "happy", loving one second, to screaming, depressed cry baby the next. (Might I add, this is the first time in a looooong time that I've actually had moments of being "happy")

 

I'm so devastated. I truly thought after almost 2 years of suffering I was FINALLY coming out the other side of this hell. Are the extreme mood swings signs that my brain is healing? Are my "smiling, loving, happy" moments a good thing, and just making the lows seem worse than they actually are? Or is it permanent brain damage and I have actually managed to make myself bipolar?

 

I've spoken to 2 doctors about the possibility of prolonged antidepressant withdrawal. One looked at me like I had 2 heads and said he'd never heard of it (not in those words), and the other said the usual "it's just rebound depression" and tried to give me more drugs (HELL NO!!!!) I just want some answers so I can deal with it. Where can I go to get REAL answers? Kinda sick of being fobbed off by hack doctors.

[Altostrata]

Very, very few doctors are aware of long-term adverse effects from psychiatric drugs. You might search long and hard before you find even one in Australia -- besides Rob Purssey. (If you would like to work with him in his style of psychotherapy, he Skypes throughout Australia.)

 

Have you tried fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[DazedNConfused]

I did use quality fish oil for about 2 months, but developed some seriously uncomfortable GI issues which haven't returned since I stopped taking them. I'm too scared to try again. It was horrific.

 

On a side note, I was thinking last night as I was lying in bed, all this extreme emotional swinging started around the time I started trialing daily probiotics. Do you think they could be messing with my head?

[Altostrata]

Yes, even probiotics or fish oil might cause unusual symptoms. We always advise trying a very little bit of a supplement first before jumping in with full doses.

[DazedNConfused]

I was very cautious when trying these things. I went a full year not being able to even take asprin for fear of a reaction. I always go into things with a small dose. I take 1 probiotic pill in the morning (25 billion) and I would take 2 fish oil caps per day (2000mg - 360mg Epa/240mg Dha) back when I was taking them.

[DazedNConfused]

Sorry to be such a drone, but I've become obsessed with this. I can't stop thinking about it. How could 3 weeks of AD (minimum dose, mind you) use possibly induce such an extreme protracted withdrawal lasting years and years? It just doesn't make any sense!

 

I feel like I'm insane. Was that 3 weeks the end of my life? Am I doomed to merely exist rather than live? I had big plans for my life. Now I have just thrown all my dreams out the window because I just don't want to do it anymore. No more plans. No more future.

[Petunia]

How could 3 weeks of AD (minimum dose, mind you) use possibly induce such an extreme protracted withdrawal lasting years and years? It just doesn't make any sense!

 

 

Hi Amy,

I'm sorry you are going through this, I know how hard it is, I've also been suffering for several years because of nervous system damage, caused in part by prescription drugs.  I've been off all drugs since May 2013, that's 4 months less than you

 

If you had only taken antidepressants for 3 weeks, then I would agree it would seem unusual for you to be in protracted withdrawal for years.  But look at your signature, your nervous system and brain has been under assault from various substances for over 10 years, the damage is cumulative.

 

There is a saying here and I can never remember it properly, but it something like, our nervous system is resilient, but its not made of rubber. Its like Humpty Dumpty, once it falls off the wall, it breaks in a significant way and takes a long time to heal.

 

You are not doomed, but it will take a while to recover.  I think you are around 30?  That's still young and you have a lot of life ahead of you.  It sounds like you are improving slowly and one day you will be able to pick up your dreams where you left them, or make completely new ones.

 

If the fish oil and probiotics make you feel worse, don't take them.  I've tried fish oil several times but find it makes my symptoms worse.  Everyone is different and it can take a while to find which supplements actually help.  For me it seems to be magnesium, vitamin c and taurine.  Some people do better with no supplements at all and stick to a plain, healthy diet with as much fresh, organic foods as possible.

 

Pay close attention to your body and notice how things effect you. Activities, certain environments, various people, foods, even the thoughts you choose to think.  If you can find out what increases your stress, then you can avoid it and this will help with faster recovery.  Sometimes its not possible to avoid things, but knowing if something is likely to be a trigger, can reduce the confusion which comes with a wave of symptoms.

 

If you decide to stop the probiotics, let us know how it goes.

 

Petu.

[Altostrata]

Dazed, your history is going on and off many different drugs, mostly without tapering.

 

These are all powerful drugs. Over time, our systems can be sensitized to them. It wasn't the 3 weeks of mirtazapine that affected you, it was your entire history set off by 3 weeks of mirtazapine and then cold turkey off that.

 

Consequently, you also had an adverse reaction to Cymbalta. Your nervous system is not tolerating this kind of stimulation any more.

 

Whatever medicine considers a low dose of any psychiatric drug is irrelevant. The dosage you took was too high for you. (Most dosing of psychiatric drugs is far too high.)

 

Because your system is sensitized, you may be having bad reactions to even relatively small doses of supplements. If you are having a bad reaction to a 25 billion probiotic, it's too strong for you. If you are having a bad reaction to 2 fish oil capsules, that's too much for you.

 

You will need to pay attention to your body and not push it for a while. Take care of your nervous system with very gentle means, let it settle down. It's possible you will be able to add in more supplements later.

[DazedNConfused]

You're probably right, Alto. It's just so frustrating.

 

On another note, I'm here to say that I'm feeling pretty ok today.... Mentally, that is. Physically, not so great. My energy levels are low, low, low, to the point where every spare moment I have, I'm spending it in bed. It's weird, cos I've gone from feeling like this practically all the time, to mostly just after I eat. It's like my body is using every ounce of energy it has to go through the digestive process. Common knowledge says that eating is supposed to give you energy to function, not zap it away. Bizarre.

 

I haven't had any probiotics for a couple of days. Just because I kept forgetting to take them. I've been quite sporadic with taking supplements. That said, I started taking magnesium and vitamin c yesterday. I can't really say how they make me feel, because A) well, I'm sure it's too soon to tell, and When I start taking something new, I do this weird thing where I'm sooooo focused on how I'm feeling, I'm sure I start feeling things that aren't even really happening. Does that make any sense?

 

I woke this morning feeling relatively well rested. It was 6.30am, and I don't remember the last time I woke at this time feeling good. Of course, it didn't last long, and as soon as I got up the anxiety kicked in (not unsusal). I was able to push through it though and take my daughter to her ballet class with minimal drama (as it was her first class, usually I would be freaking out in this instance). Here's the kicker though: I actually managed to initiate conversation with some of the other mums without the social anxiety awkwardness cloud hanging over my head! Like it was the most natural thing in the world for me. It didn't even occur to me what had happened until afterwards.

 

So yeah. Feeling pretty good, apart from being almost confined to my bed from lack of energy. No depression today! Woop!

[Petunia]

Its good to hear you are feeling better dazed. 

 

Supplements also need to be taken on a regular schedule. Many people become sensitive to supplements after experiencing withdrawal for even a short while, so keeping the dose of these stable also helps the nervous system to recover. Help your nervous system adapt to life without drugs by maintaining as much stability as you can.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

[DazedNConfused]

Thanks Petu, I'm trying. Really, really trying. Today im on the complete other end of the spectrum. Depressed and highly on edge. Took my mag last night and it helped me to fall asleep (i think), and slept until 8.30. Woke up groggy and out of sorts. Can't control my anger and frustration today. I think that's the anxiety shining through. *sigh*

[Petunia]

Being able to get some solid sleep is very good and a positive sign.  Withdrawal can badly disrupt sleep and many people suffer with this problem for a long time, so you are doing well in the sleep department.

 

Increased anger and frustration could be something we call neuro-emotions.  There's not much you can do about it, these extreme emotions subside in time, but understanding more about it can help, here is a topic which discusses it:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

[Altostrata]

Dazed, please update your topic with your recent progress.

[DazedNConfused]

Wish I had some progress to report, Alto. Still having "good" days and bad days. Still trying to figure out what the hell is going on in my brain. Still trying to figure out how to explain my irrational outbursts and control them enough to fit into society. Still trying to pick up the pieces.

 

My memory is getting worse. Today I was trying to tell someone a story about a conversation I had yesterday. Turns out it may not have been yesterday, and I still can't remember who it was I was talking to at the time. I remember the words of the conversation but absolutely no other details. Did the conversation even actually take place?? I have no idea.

 

I mowed my lawn about 4 hours ago. Took me 2 hours to do it, and my body is still vibrating. I seem to have zero physical strength to actually get off the bed now. Just want to go to sleep. BUT, my landlord is paying me a visit tomorrow and the house looks like a bomb made out of clothes, toys and dust has exploded. I MUST get up and clean. I walk around like I'm drunk. Shuffling feet, bumping into walls, tripping over myself, zoning in and out - but I've had no alcohol. I had a diet coke though. Have been having one daily for about a week. Wonder if I'm reacting to the aspartame or caffeine or something. I wonder if the stress of the landlord visiting is creating an anxiety reaction. It's weird though. I feel far from wired. Like every single body process has slowed down. I wonder if I'm just a complete bag of mixed nuts.

 

Feels like my body and mind are totally giving up on me.

[mammaP]

Thanks for updating Dazed. I'm sorry you are in such an awful wave. Diet coke is a killer for me! Aspartame 

makes me feel ill and I've had to give up caffeine too. I would try going without the coke and see how you feel,

I feel much the same with aspartame, very spaced out and not with it, it's a weird feeling!

[DazedNConfused]

Thanks MammaP. I've had a thousand days like this, but they still continue to surprise me.

 

I've been tracking my moods and energy levels for the last couple of months, and from what I can see they seem to peak between 1 and 2 weeks before my period (sorry if TMI), so I was thinking there were some sort of hormone issues there, however, today I'm 3 weeks away and my period was a week late this month so I'm throwing that theory out the window. I would like to ask though, does withdrawal affect hormones and such? Not that it really matters. There's no way in hell I'd be willing to take any medication to "fix" it.... On a side note, today my financial counselor asked if I trusted doctor (GP here in Australia) to help with my "mental health", and that I really should get one. I broke down in anxious, panicky tears and yelled at her because every single doctor I've seen in the last 2 years (about 7 of them) has tried to push medication onto me, and quite frankly, I don't trust doctors one iota. Not a single one. There is nothing any of them can do for me. I must have come across very threatening because she ended my appointment 15 minutes early and ushered me out of her office veeeeery quickly. I hate this. The "old" me would never have yelled at anyone.

[Altostrata]

Many women find withdrawal symptoms ramp up at specific points in their cycles.

[DazedNConfused]

Update:

On friday, I had all the symptoms of a UTI. I get them a lot since I had my baby, and have even developed a kidney infection from them at one point, so I know what the warning signs are... Or so I thought.

 

On friday night I went to the doctor to get antibiotics and did a urine test. Over the weekend my symptoms got worse and started getting kidney infection symptoms (ie. Flank pain, fever, etc). I Spent the entire weekend in bed sleeping on and off.

Today I went back to the doctor for a follow up and I suspected I would need stronger antibiotics seeing as my symptoms were getting worse. However, I was shocked to learn that there was no infection to begin with. In fact, I was informed that I had given a "perfect" (his word, not mine) urine sample.

I asked him why I would have all the symptoms of an infection, but no infection. He sent me for blood tests.

 

Now I have to wait until thursday for the results (3 days) and my health anxiety has skyrocketed again. I feel like I've gone back to the beginning of my recovery. Had my first panic attack in about a year on saturday. Feeling defeated.

[DazedNConfused]

Oh, I just wanted to add that my depression has been quite mild lately. Still there though. Anxiety has shot through the roof though. Perhaps that's overriding the depression for now.

[tgirl]

Hello Dazed,

Sorry you are having a rough time!

I have often thought I has an uti too, but am to afraid to go it checked out!

Hope you are feeling better.

I don't know which is better the depression or the anxiety!

Such a shame we have to deal with this.

Sending healing thoughts your way!

Tgirl

[DazedNConfused]

Tgirl, I cannot stress enough how much you need to get yourself checked for UTI if you suspect it. I had a kidney infection from an untreated UTI and was hospitalised for it. I wouldn't wish it upon my wost enemy.

 

I don't want to worry you even more than you probably are, but since my ordeal (pre withdrawal), I'm extremely paranoid. I believe that's where my health anxiety began.

 

Anyway, thank you for your kind words. X

[DazedNConfused]

So I went and got my blood test results back on thursday. Turns out my kidneys aren't functioning as they should be. Going for another blood test at the end of next week.

 

I'm really, really scared.

[Narcissus]

We're here, Dazed. Try not to panic, it could very well be something minor. Thinking of you.

[DazedNConfused]

Update:

Ok, so I'm just about at the 2.5 year mark from the day I quit ADs CT. I had a relatively good run for a while, never back to normal, but I was getting through each day more fluidly than I had been previously. My child and I are getting along better then ever as I feel that I have made a real connection with her. Rather than seeing her as a burden, she has kinda become my rock. I have love for her now, whereas previously I was fearful of her. I haven't googled "why do I hate my child?" In more than 6 months. I was able to go out, do shopping and generally mingle without too much of a problem. Win, right?!

 

So I thought I was seeing a glimmer of hope until the last week, when that teeny bit of light became dark again. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, all of the symptoms I had at the beginning of the WD came flooding back. Not as severe, but have definitely left me going "WTF!?!?" Let me give you an idea of how out of left field this was: in the entire length of my withdrawal, I have not once gone to the emergency room. On Thursday, I insisted my dad take me. It was that bad. I was shaking so badly, I thought I was having a seizure - except I was still conscious and able to walk. For 2 days prior, I was having a lot of stiffening of the neck and then blacking out immediately after- as in, my whole vision would go black for a period of about 30 seconds and I'd lose balance. But I never lost consciousness. Like when your blood pressure drops when standing up too quickly. After the first episode, the disconnection returned. The sun, even through clouds was too much for me to handle. I had trouble focusing on things. Everything was kind of blurry and I felt separated from the rest of the world. Classic WD symptoms.

 

Anyway, they hooked me up to a heart monitor and long story short, turns out I seem to have a relatively rare heart condition called WPW (Wolff Parkinson White Syndrome - extra electrical current in the heart). 1 in 1000 people have it. I was kept in hospital for 2 days before being referred to a cardiac specialist and let go. Since returning home, I haven't left the house. Agoraphobia is setting in and I seem to be fearful of everything again. It seems that whatever happened to me on the days leading up to my hospital visit has fired up my nervous system again. I'm told that they don't think my heart condition caused the syncope, and it was just a coincidence (I have never been to the hospital for anything in my life, so there was no record of it) that they caught it. So, here I am, back to square 1 again. I have numerous appointments for tests this week and I'm totally freaked out about having to leave the house. FML.

[DazedNConfused]

Another update:

I'm going downhill, fast. Derealisation is now back. Cannot tolerate sunlight (Even on overcast days) or open spaces much at all. Feels like I'm choking when I get fresh air and get dizzy to the point where I think I'm going to pass out. I'm in a deep, deep depression and anxiety is coming hard and fast. This is the first time suicide has been a serious consideration and not a fleeting and easily dismissed thought. It's been unrelenting for the last 2 weeks with not even a hint of relief.

I've never experienced anything like this before in my life. I didn't even know what anxiety was or even felt like before going on antidepressants, and never had more than I would now consider "the blues"

 

What is happening to me? Please tell me that this is just a phase. Is it even still possible to have "phases" 2.5 years out? Is this even WD related? Surely not. Given that I'm too scared to go back on antidepressants, do I need to try and accept that this is something I will battle for whatever remains of my life?