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vetdoc going off valium and Wellbutrin


vetdoc

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Hi vetdoc, hello from a fellow member of the veterinary field. Im just a tech, wanted to go to vet school, but plans changed. Wishing you well in this journey we are all on.

Spring of 1998 place on birth control pills for irregular bleeding, high testosterone and one ovarian cyst, stayed on until April 2004, told to take hormone holiday, conceived first son 4 months later-VERY BIG SUPRISE, was told wouldn't be able to have childern or would need reproductive doctor to help. Got pregnant again 2006 with second son easily, then was on/off birthcontrol again until October 2011, concieved 3rd son in October 2011(tried many times to get pregant again when 2nd child was close to 2yrs, hormone problems started again after 2nd child, along with thyroid enlargement.

 

Spring of 2001 celexa 10 mgs-rx'd by pcp for complaints of chronic fatigue, irritability and weight gain, stayed on until June 2005, switched to Lexapro 20mgs for PPD, stayed on Lexapro 6-7 months, couldn't afford to see psyh dr. and Lexapro, saw PCP switched back to 20mgs celexa in 2007, remained on until November 2011, was c/t off due to 3rd pregnancy, baby had umbilical cord defect, seemed ok during pregnancy, except for crying jags here and there. Our miracle baby was born July 20th 2012, healthy except with reflux. One month later the anxiety,restlessness,horrible crying, insomnia and the deepest depression ever. That started the psyh drug nightmare-benzo's,antidepressants, sleeping pills, mood stablizers. Nothing help made me worse, doctors just kept changing the meds frequently. 4 mental health hospitalizations, rapid detox off benzos Jan 2013, horrible withdrawal and still suffering withdrawal symptoms NO ONE BELIEVES ME, I feel like ive been on one consistant drug withdrawal for the past 2 years

January 2014 slow titrate up of lexapro to 20 mgs-horrible side effects!!, was just rapidly taper by current pysh off to pursade me to try an MAOI-no way!!! Was told should consider ECT

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Hi vetdoc, hello from a fellow member of the veterinary field. Im just a tech, wanted to go to vet school, but plans changed. Wishing you well in this journey we are all on.

Hi Skylar

 

I hope you are doing better at this time with your withdrawal symptoms.  It's a difficult long journey, but I really believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Hang in there.

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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vetdoc, the plan to reduce the evening IR dose makes sense to me. You can split the IR tablet into quarters, if you want to be more gradual about it.

 

Thanks, meimei, for your suggestions.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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I just posted about a week ago that I was doing pretty good with my early Wellbutrin taper, particularly sleeping better and less activated.,  I seemed to hit a wave the past 4 nights, waking up after 3 hours sleep, difficult getting back to sleep.  I'm  also feeling a bit more activated the past few nights after the evening 75 mg IR dose of Wellbutrin, which may be accounting for the poor sleep?  I'd like to eliminate the evening wellbutrin dose, but don't see a way to do it at this point., so I am dropping the evening dose by 25mg tomorrow to 50 mg.

It's always hard to tell if this insomnia is an actual  withdrawal symptom from  benzo withdrawl or Wellbutrin withdrawal,  or a side affect from the activating Wellbutrin drug.  I guess I won't know until I get down to a lower daily dose on the Wellbutrin.

I did struggle with  insomnia symptoms when I got to under 3mg of valium, even before I was forced start the Wellbutrin taper.  So I guess the insomnia symptoms may still be part of the benzo withdrawl,  though I am holding at 2mg valium. 

Another thing is I have been taking supplements, some I added just over the past month.  I take Vitamin D3 4000IU daily, omega 3 fish oil, 1000mg epa , 200mg DHA, The past few weeks I added magnesium 200 mg 3 times a day, and  L theanine  100 mg once day.    I don't know if any of these supplements could be activating and causing me sleep problems?    I added the magnesium for it's calming affect, and the L theanine  for some anxiolytic  effect. 

If you guys have any ideas or suggestions let me know.

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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I just posted about a week ago that I was doing pretty good with my early Wellbutrin taper, particularly sleeping better and less activated., I seemed to hit a wave the past 4 nights, waking up after 3 hours sleep, difficult getting back to sleep. I'm also feeling a bit more activated the past few nights after the evening 75 mg IR dose of Wellbutrin, which may be accounting for the poor sleep? I'd like to eliminate the evening wellbutrin dose, but don't see a way to do it at this point., so I am dropping the evening dose by 25mg tomorrow to 50 mg.

It's always hard to tell if this insomnia is an actual withdrawal symptom from benzo withdrawl or Wellbutrin withdrawal, or a side affect from the activating Wellbutrin drug. I guess I won't know until I get down to a lower daily dose on the Wellbutrin.

I did struggle with insomnia symptoms when I got to under 3mg of valium, even before I was forced start the Wellbutrin taper. So I guess the insomnia symptoms may still be part of the benzo withdrawl, though I am holding at 2mg valium.

Another thing is I have been taking supplements, some I added just over the past month. I take Vitamin D3 4000IU daily, omega 3 fish oil, 1000mg epa , 200mg DHA, The past few weeks I added magnesium 200 mg 3 times a day, and L theanine 100 mg once day. I don't know if any of these supplements could be activating and causing me sleep problems? I added the magnesium for it's calming affect, and the L theanine for some anxiolytic effect.

If you guys have any ideas or suggestions let me know.

Thanks

Just a thought, Any of the supplements could be activating. You may want to try starting at a very low dose and trying one supplement at a time. You have a lot going on. So, when you add numerous additional variables (supplements) it makes it difficult to find out what is happening.

 

Hope you feel better soon.

2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....

5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

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I just posted about a week ago that I was doing pretty good with my early Wellbutrin taper, particularly sleeping better and less activated., I seemed to hit a wave the past 4 nights, waking up after 3 hours sleep, difficult getting back to sleep. I'm also feeling a bit more activated the past few nights after the evening 75 mg IR dose of Wellbutrin, which may be accounting for the poor sleep? I'd like to eliminate the evening wellbutrin dose, but don't see a way to do it at this point., so I am dropping the evening dose by 25mg tomorrow to 50 mg.

It's always hard to tell if this insomnia is an actual withdrawal symptom from benzo withdrawl or Wellbutrin withdrawal, or a side affect from the activating Wellbutrin drug. I guess I won't know until I get down to a lower daily dose on the Wellbutrin.

I did struggle with insomnia symptoms when I got to under 3mg of valium, even before I was forced start the Wellbutrin taper. So I guess the insomnia symptoms may still be part of the benzo withdrawl, though I am holding at 2mg valium.

Another thing is I have been taking supplements, some I added just over the past month. I take Vitamin D3 4000IU daily, omega 3 fish oil, 1000mg epa , 200mg DHA, The past few weeks I added magnesium 200 mg 3 times a day, and L theanine 100 mg once day. I don't know if any of these supplements could be activating and causing me sleep problems? I added the magnesium for it's calming affect, and the L theanine for some anxiolytic effect.

If you guys have any ideas or suggestions let me know.

Thanks

Just a thought, Any of the supplements could be activating. You may want to try starting at a very low dose and trying one supplement at a time. You have a lot going on. So, when you add numerous additional variables (supplements) it makes it difficult to find out what is happening.

 

Hope you feel better soon.

 

Hi JM

How are you doing.  Hope you are doing ok.  Yea I think I need to stop all supplements for awhile and see how that goes, with my sleep.  I hate having insomnia, it's like hell for me.  I actually have had issues with insomnia ever since I was C/T off the oxy codone, 3 years ago.  It's amazing to me that up until about a month ago, before the Wellbutrin issue I was doing decent, with a window 3-4 days a week.  Then with the Wellbutrin switch from the canadian  to American brand all hell broke loose.  I guess that is what happens with these multiple psychotropic drugs, they can act up at any time.  I have considered switching  back to the Canadian brand Wellbutrin SR, to see if it is less activating.  It could help ,but I dont know if switching back at this time is the right thing.  What do you think.

 

Thanks JM

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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I had problems with l-theanine, definitely over activating. Supposedly it is mostly calming, but it also increases dopamine somehow. There are a couple of ways this can be problematic physiologically: If one's COMT production is less than ideal, it causes a slower breakdown of catecholamines. Or copper overload can cause dopamine to move too quickly to norepinephrine. Or maybe this is all BS :). But L-theanine was a gift to me...I reacted so badly I knew I needed more help. But it was great for anxiety...

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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I had problems with l-theanine, definitely over activating. Supposedly it is mostly calming, but it also increases dopamine somehow. There are a couple of ways this can be problematic physiologically: If one's COMT production is less than ideal, it causes a slower breakdown of catecholamines. Or copper overload can cause dopamine to move too quickly to norepinephrine. Or maybe this is all BS :). But L-theanine was a gift to me...I reacted so badly I knew I needed more help. But it was great for anxiety...

Meim How often did you take the L theanine and what dose?   I eliminated all supplements yesterday and actually slept for 6 hours straight for the fist time in a week.  I don't know which ones are causing problems , but for now all supplements  are out.  I imght try to add back a few one at a time after a few weeks, if my sleep gets better.  I am suspicious of the magnesium, since I was taking a high dose 600-700 mg daily, with 300mg taken at bedtime.  I was ony taking 100mg of      L-  theanine in the AM.  I'm hoping the drop down to 50mg afternoon dose of wellbutrin IR also helps with my insomnia.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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I took one pill, don't know dose, two days in a row. Then I switched to green tea, 6 cups/day for maybe five days. I can tolerate green tea in normal amounts fine, just not that much.

 

I think trying a cut is a great idea. You can always go back up if you have to.

 

Although the mg dose might be high, I think it is less suspect than the others, just because of how it works. I take 800mg/day plus 2-3 Epsom salts baths a week. The kidneys spill a lot of mg when the body is stressed. Once in a while someone is over-activated by omega-3's.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, Vetdoc, just noticed your name. Had to check. Are you still able to practice? I pretty much retired four years ago due to problems with the Meds I was on and the ensuing withdrawal. How are you doing today?

 

You definitely found the right place for help and support. Just take things slow and watch out for those supplements!

 

I'd love to PM if you ever need a friendly ear about vet medicine and this mess we're in!

 

Take good care!

I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi

 

I am now down to 225mg wellbutrin taper from 300mg started December 20.2014.  I have been doing ok, not great,  with disturbed sleep and the annoyong tinnitus that started several months ago.   My Sleep is  very erratic,  it might be ok for 4-5 days and then bad for 2-3 days.  I recently had  had a horrendous week of no sleep,   after  I tried to reduce my Lamictal dose by about 6%, while  holding the Wellbutrin taper at 225mg.  I had to updose back to 200mg of lamictal after about 6 days from the start of the taper because I couldn't sleep at all.  My sleep pattern improved some (5-6 hrs) ,after about 3 days of updosing the Lamictal.  I was foolish to try and taper another drug while barely being stable on the Wellbutrin taper.  My body let me know about it.

 

I have several questions about my Wellbutrin taper.  I can't seem to feel really consistently stable at this point in the  taper.   I'm fairly functional but still have symptoms and I am not feeling as good even  a year ago.  .  I actually felt the most stable tapering my 40 mg of valium for the past 2 years until  around 4mg.  I started to destabilize when I went to fast from 4mg down to 2mg.  I never fully stabilized on the valium holding at 2 mg , when I was forced to start the Wellbutrin taper 3 months ago due to severe activating effect of the new Wellbutrin brand.

 

Right now I'm taking 150mg SR in AM and 75mg IR around 5:00 PM.   I'm wondering if I would feel better if I switched to 150mg of XL i and 75mg of IR  together in the AM.  The 150 mg XL would give me smoother blood levels over a 24 hr period, then the 150 mg of SR.   what is the it's possibility my sleep issues could be related to dose withdrawal later in the evening with the SR only having a 12 hr half life . I don't know if there is an answer to getting more stable, maybe  some of my symptoms are side effects of the drugs.  I do know that at my age, I just turned 65 these drugs are aging me rapidly.

I would appreciate some help or suggestions from some of you guys experienced with antidepressants.

 

 

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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You could try that. Or you could stay the same and take the IR a bit earlier. I went from 300 XL to 200 SR so don't really know enough to say. I do nope you find something that helps soon!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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You could try that. Or you could stay the same and take the IR a bit earlier. I went from 300 XL to 200 SR so don't really know enough to say. I do nope you find something that helps soon!

 

 

Meime

 

I sure would like to find a combination that would work consistently and get me very stable.  Just when I feel pretty good and think I'm stable I get another wave, very frustrating.  If I make a commitment a week ahead a time for something when I'm feeling good, I never know if I will feel sick and can't keep the commitment I made to someone. I just need to keep on trying until I get rock solid stable.   I appreciate your suggestions and concern.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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Are you supplementing? Always a risk to try, but I personally use GABA, taurine, magnesium, niacin, and inositol for calming. Sometimes all at the same time when I really need sleep. But I think apart from anything that affects catecholamines (I think K have some type of gene problem there), I'm not as sensitive as most of us here are. If you take something, always start small and initiate only one therapy at a time.

 

I think Kelly Brogan may be the bravest pdoc in the US about taking people off drugs. Here is an article she wrote on WD:

http://kellybroganmd.com/article/stop-madness-coming-psych-meds/ Her website has a ton of good info if you can overlook her specialty in women.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Another question I have, is there the possibility of the drug withdrawals causing hyperglycemia?   I am diabetic type 2 and my fasting blood sugars have been running higher then normal.  I know these drugs affect the autonomic system and possibly affect cortisol regulation, which could  mess around with my fasting blood glucose levels??  If anyone has some insight into this I would appreciate hearing it.  My doctoer doesn't think so,but he also doesn't think all these drugs we are on cause any real withdrawals :angry:

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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Are you supplementing? Always a risk to try, but I personally use GABA, taurine, magnesium, niacin, and inositol for calming. Sometimes all at the same time when I really need sleep. But I think apart from anything that affects catecholamines (I think K have some type of gene problem there), I'm not as sensitive as most of us here are. If you take something, always start small and initiate only one therapy at a time.

 

I think Kelly Brogan may be the bravest pdoc in the US about taking people off drugs. Here is an article she wrote on WD:

http://kellybroganmd.com/article/stop-madness-coming-psych-meds/ Her website has a ton of good info if you can overlook her specialty in women.

Meime

 

I stopped supplementing about 3 months ago magnesium, Vit B, vit D, fish oils, because I felt they were activating me some.  The vit D seemed activating at doses higher then 1500mg.  What is really an frustrating is I just had my Vit D , magnesium and B levels checked.  Magnesium, and B levels were good, but my vit D level was quite low 35 UG, when sleep medicine experts want it to be in the 60-8- range  for good sleep.  It is possible the low vit D levels are the real culprit in this sleep issue. I am going to see a neurologist who specializes in sleep disorder this week.  I'll see what his take is on  the sleep issues.

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

Link to comment

Another question I have, is there the possibility of the drug withdrawals causing hyperglycemia?   I am diabetic type 2 and my fasting blood sugars have been running higher then normal.  I know these drugs affect the autonomic system and possibly affect cortisol regulation, which could  mess around with my fasting blood glucose levels??  If anyone has some insight into this I would appreciate hearing it.  My doctor doesn't think so,but he also doesn't think all these drugs we are on cause any real withdrawals :angry:

About a year ago, not doing well, my then pdoc had me test blood sugars at home to see if variances were causing problems. My norm in the past had been a fasting blood sugar of 100-110. I did blood sugars every two hours for a day. Everything was around there except my fbs was 138 and right after a very gentle walk 168. I think those were totally cortisol driven. You might want to check in the night for low levels if you wake about 3. Two things helped me, the Walsh protocol and the paleo autoimmune diet (I have since added nuts, seeds and legumes back). I have seen few people heal on this list without major dietary work, but what helps seems to vary a lot. Low-histamine, GAPS, PAI, and Wahls get thrown around. There is a new book out, Adrenal Reset Diet by Christianson that is a fairly easy diet. Also, I think diabetics need a long hard look at gut health (as did I). Also, I could never have cut meds a bit without finding/treating sleep apnea (turns out this is rampant in my family). Does that give you any ideas?

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment

 

Another question I have, is there the possibility of the drug withdrawals causing hyperglycemia?   I am diabetic type 2 and my fasting blood sugars have been running higher then normal.  I know these drugs affect the autonomic system and possibly affect cortisol regulation, which could  mess around with my fasting blood glucose levels??  If anyone has some insight into this I would appreciate hearing it.  My doctor doesn't think so,but he also doesn't think all these drugs we are on cause any real withdrawals :angry:

About a year ago, not doing well, my then pdoc had me test blood sugars at home to see if variances were causing problems. My norm in the past had been a fasting blood sugar of 100-110. I did blood sugars every two hours for a day. Everything was around there except my fbs was 138 and right after a very gentle walk 168. I think those were totally cortisol driven. You might want to check in the night for low levels if you wake about 3. Two things helped me, the Walsh protocol and the paleo autoimmune diet (I have since added nuts, seeds and legumes back). I have seen few people heal on this list without major dietary work, but what helps seems to vary a lot. Low-histamine, GAPS, PAI, and Wahls get thrown around. There is a new book out, Adrenal Reset Diet by Christianson that is a fairly easy diet. Also, I think diabetics need a long hard look at gut health (as did I). Also, I could never have cut meds a bit without finding/treating sleep apnea (turns out this is rampant in my family). Does that give you any ideas?

 

Meime

 

I'm really suspicious of my cortisol levels being off, due to the stress of withdrawls.  Also some meds I'm on like Doxepin, for sure can elevate BG.  I take the Doxepin at night to sleep so it may well be the culprit.  I just started a low carb, high fat-protein diet so we shall see how it goes.  I have actually lost 5 pounds just one month just reducing my carbs.  I really don't meed to lose weight since I am already on the slim side, but the low carbs are a must for me. I agree gut health is important.   I  have started pro biotics and I am going to get checked by my GI doc for gastraparesis, which can occur in diabetics.  If I do have slow stomach emptying my evening meal may be emptying thruout the night causing increased fasting BG. 

I'm actually going to a sleep specialist this week for a sleep study, to check for sleep apnea and I may start CBT for my sleep issues. 

Meime do you have both sleep apnea and diabetes?

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi guys

I have tapered my wellbutrin down to 225mg over 4 months and am pretty stable at this point.  I am thinking of holding the Wellbutrin here and starting my Lamictal taper in a few weeks.  I was planning on tapering by taking the appropriate dry dose 175 mg and then making a liquid solution using 25 mg in 75ml  of water, which is .333 mg lamictal per ml.  I am going to remove 1ml (.333mg) from the 75 mg solution  and increasing  the amount by 1 ml  each day (.333mg) from the 75 ml solution made up daily. .  This would be a 1mg  drop every 3 days.  I will then hold on every third day for 3 days and then repeat the process.  I will adjust the taper accordingly if I have symptoms. Id like to taper down to 100mg then hold and resume the Wellbutrin taper.

I did this type of taper for my valium taper and it worked well to keep symptoms to a minimum.

What do those of you who have tapered lamictal think about this plan.

 

Thanks

 

Bruce

 

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Hi, vetdoc. I moved your post here from the lamotrigine topic because the discussion would go off topic there.

 

Why do you want to reduce lamotrigine now? It seems to me if reducing Wellbutrin is going well, you would continue to do that.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yes I thought of just continuing down on the wellbutrin Alto, but  I really think the Lamictal is giving me some side effects that I don't like.  I feel sort of dizzy or unsteady at times when I take the Lamictal. Also it tends to make me nauseous and gives me headaches.  I was thinking of trying to go down to maybe 150mg of Lamictal at a 10% drop per month and see if the side effects lessen, and then resume the wellbutrin taper.   I guess I will continue the Wellbutrin taper for now since my next cut is coming up in 2 weeks.  I will be going to 100mg SR and 100mg IR, taking 100mg SR and 50mg IR in AM and the remaining 50mg IR around 2:00pm to allow me to sleep.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

If you are getting adverse effects from lamotrigine, that's a good reason to stop tapering the Wellbutrin and start tapering lamotrigine.

 

Nausea and headache are signs of too much lamotrigine.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi

 

I need some advice on my Wellbutrin taper.  I had tapered down to 225 mg and  I was taking 150mg SR in AM and 75mg IR in the afternoon. I cut another 25mg Wellbutrin about 2 weeks ago from 225 to 200mg.  I went to 100mg SR in AM and 100 mg IR in afternoon.  I did OK for the first week or so on the 200mg, but the past week I have been having sleep disturbance waking up after 3 hours of sleep.  I assume the sleep issue is related to my Wellbutrin taper even if it was a  it was a 10% cut. 

I am wondering  if going from 150mg SR and 75 mg IR down to 100mg SR and 100mg IR has contributed to some withdrawal symptoms. 

Although the total dose is 200 mg, the blood levels  thruout out the day of 100mg of SR vs 150 mg SR is 50% lower.  So besides dropping the total dose by 25mg I also have less wellbutrin in my system by taking the 100mg vs the 150mg SR formulation.  I am thinking of going to 150mg SR and 50mg IR ( half of 100mg IR) to see if this helps increase the steady state blood levels over 24 hrs.  I would like some feedback if this sounds logical,any advice would be welcomed.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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It makes sense to me. I think the "can go to sleep, can't stay asleep" situation is a sign not of overstimulation as in too much Wellbutrin late in the day, but rather of the stress the brain senses in the adjustment. But please defer to the wiser ones around here.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Administrator

You moved more buproprion into the evening. Sleep disturbance is a common side effect of buproprion, it is stimulating.

 

Changing to 150mg SR and 50mg IR may relieve this. You probably will want to concentrate your reductions on the evening dose.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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You moved more buproprion into the evening. Sleep disturbance is a common side effect of buproprion, it is stimulating.

 

Changing to 150mg SR and 50mg IR may relieve this. You probably will want to concentrate your reductions on the evening dose.

Alto I did start he 150mg AM + 25mg IR inAM and the other 25 mg IR very early afternoon (2:30) yesterday, so today is the second day on that dosing.  I can give it a week to see if this helps.  I did sleep much bettter on the 225mg dose taking 150mg SR in AM +  37.5 mg IR in AM, and the other half of the 37.5 mg IR around 2:30 in the afernoon. 

Hopefully the lower dose in the afternoon helps.

 

 It's also difficult for me to tell if the sleep disturbance is a side effect of the drugs activating effect or a withdrawl symptom, or both.   What is  the possibility  that  I may have tapered down to much from 225 to 200mg (12 %) and I'm having some withdrawal symptoms causing sleep disturbance.  I know there is no definite answer but, whats your opinion Alto?    Might I be better off  to up dose now to 212.5 mg using 150mg SR AM and 37.5 mg IR in early afternoon for a few weeks to see how I feel?  This dose  would be a 5% drop from  225mg, instead of the 12% drop I am doing now?  Please let me know what you think.

 

Thanks Alto

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

Link to comment

It makes sense to me. I think the "can go to sleep, can't stay asleep" situation is a sign not of overstimulation as in too much Wellbutrin late in the day, but rather of the stress the brain senses in the adjustment. But please defer to the wiser ones around here.

 

Meime it's so difficult to tell with wellbutrin is it a side effect of the drug or withdrawl.  I really think it probably both until I get down to lower doses of the Wellbutrin.  I did drop more then 10% 225 to 200mg so there may be adding to my insomnia.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

Link to comment

It seems your plan might help, regardless of which cause it is. That's why I appreciate Alto's comments.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment

It seems your plan might help, regardless of which cause it is. That's why I appreciate Alto's comments.

I always appreciate Altos advice no doubt, especially when I get unstable  in a bad way like now, with the severe insomnia.   I"m just frustrated and confused since I started the Wellbutrin taper, 5 months ago.  I just can't seem to find the  sweet spot in my taper plan to stay consistently stable.  It just seems when I make what appears to be a good  plan, and get to a place  I feel pretty stable,  I then cycle into a an unstable condition again with severe sleep disturbance the major symptom for no apparent reason. 

I know the Wellbutrin is activating, but I really thought dropping 100mg, off my 300mg original dose, with a 10% a month taper plan would help prevent  major sleep disturbances from happening.  I don't know, maybe I needed to go with a slower taper then 10% with the Wellbutrin.   What is interesting and frustrating is  I never had any major sleep disturbances for the 2 year slow tapering off 40 mg Valium, and I was on 300mg Wellbutrin thru out that taper.   

 I certainly didn't think I would actually get worse tapering Wellbutrin, but it seems the Wellbutrin really turned on me, in a bad way, 5 months ago.  

 

I'm really suspicious  that my last cut down to 200 mg a few weeks ago,may have been to aggressive, since I was quite stable at  the 225mg level.

So at this point it's either updosing the Wellbutrin  back to 225mg or 212.5 mg and holding, to see if that helps, and then make smaller cuts maybe 5% a month. The other option is riding it out as and staying on the 200mg, taking the 150mg SR and 25mg IR in the AM and the other 25mg IR afternoon dose earlier in the the.day.    I just need to get stable again and get my sleep on track, it's starting to take it's toll. There is no way for certain to know which would be the better plan? 

 

I will wait to hear from Alto  and see which plan he thinks might work best at this point.

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

Link to comment

It seems your plan might help, regardless of which cause it is. That's why I appreciate Alto's comments.

 

 

Alto I just realized I made a typo in my last post typing referring to you as "he" when of course it should be "she". I apoligize for that.

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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Hi

 

Checking in today, doing poorly, the sixth day since my insomnia symptoms  flared up.  I'm getting much worse, last night I couldn't sleep at all, managed about 1.5 hrs this morning.  I am also starting to get  additional symptoms, troubling upsetting thoughts of doom and gloom, worsening depression, anxiety, and increase tinnitus level. .  Also my blood sugar this morning was out of wack, I had to increase my medicine.   I'm just not feeling like myself at all and I'm very concerned.  

These symptoms  feel like withdrawal symptoms to me and the only medicine Im ' tapering now is the Wellbutrin.  I'm also still on the 200mg lamictal along with 2mg valium and 7mg doxepin. 

 

I was  quite stable when I was on the 225mg of wellbutrin all through the month of May.  

It's only since I cut down to 200mg on May 30 and then started having severe sleep disturbance about a week after that cut. 

I've been on the 200mg Wellbutrin for 2 weeks now, and  I think I should try and up dose back to 225mg Wellbutrin to see if I can stabilize.  Updosing appears to be my only option here, I don't know anything else to do and I can't continue to destabilize. 

Please guys give me your feed back on this before I updose.  I really need some help and validation that I am doing the right thing.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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The weird thing about Wellbutrjn is that it inhibits one of the CYP450 isonenzymes, I am tied up and can't look up which. Anyway, you might see if your other drugs go through it. If so, loosening up that system will let other drugs go through more quickly, so you are dropping in effect all drugs that go through that isoenzyme. So one just has to go really slow, with patience. Addax writes of that in her thread.

 

When I was withdrawing, I got great help from Wellbutrin every time I took a bit, it just didn't last long. If you are getting that quick relief from a dose, it might point to a WD mechanism.

 

I'm sorry, individual biological differences combined with multiple drugs makes for unpredictability, and I don't think anyone can predict what a change, or no change, will do. Just make any changes tiny and slow.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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The weird thing about Wellbutrjn is that it inhibits one of the CYP450 isonenzymes, I am tied up and can't look up which. Anyway, you might see if your other drugs go through it. If so, loosening up that system will let other drugs go through more quickly, so you are dropping in effect all drugs that go through that isoenzyme. So one just has to go really slow, with patience. Addax writes of that in her thread.

 

When I was withdrawing, I got great help from Wellbutrin every time I took a bit, it just didn't last long. If you are getting that quick relief from a dose, it might point to a WD mechanism.

 

I'm sorry, individual biological differences combined with multiple drugs makes for unpredictability, and I don't think anyone can predict what a change, or no change, will do. Just make any changes tiny and slow.

 

 

Meime I checked that isoenzyme CYP450 and no interactions with my meds.   I think my best option  now is to assume that I am having withdrawals from the recent 25mg cut down to 200MG, being to large a drop.     The only way to know for sure is for me to up dose back to 225mg and see what happens after a week. 

 

What do you think about that updosing, Id like your opinion.    I would also like to get  Altos opinion, hopefully she responds to my post.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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You need to do what you need to do to feel stable. I would probably recalculate what a 5% cut would have been and try that for a week before going all the way back up, but that's just me. I so hate having to suffer twice for the same drop. :). But there is nothing wrong with updosing if you need to. Did you already implement Alto's original suggestion?

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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You need to do what you need to do to feel stable. I would probably recalculate what a 5% cut would have been and try that for a week before going all the way back up, but that's just me. I so hate having to suffer twice for the same drop. :). But there is nothing wrong with updosing if you need to. Did you already implement Alto's original suggestion?

Meime

I can updose to a 5% cut and see if it helps first.  I don't like to up dose at all but I think I need to with the way I'm feeling.  I have to work a few days this week and without sleep for over a week, ouch!.  I was hoping Alto would respond to my post because I actually misspoke what I was doing with the 200mg dose.  I was taking 100mg SR and 50mg IR in the AM and only  50mg IR early in the afternoon, not 100mg in the afternoon.    Alto suggestion was to take just 50 mg IR in the afternoon, which I was already doing when the symptoms began.  Thats why I think it is more likely withdrawal symptoms, rather then the activating side effect of the Wellbutrin.?  Maybe Alto is not around and will respond tomorrow.

 

Thanks

 polyharmacy cocktail  FEB 2012 after hospital release , Wellbutrin 300mg xl once day, Lamictal 200mg daily, Klonopin 2mg Doxepin 7mg

 

 Klonopin micro taper started Dec  2012, C/O to 20mg Valium 12/2013, down to 1.5mg as of 10/01/2014,  updose to 1.6mg valium Oct 10/2014, updosed 2mg valium December 18 2014

 

Wellbutrin taper from 300mg, started  Jan 2015,  Wellbutrin 275mg, Jan 24 2015,  wellbutrin 250 mg, Feb 25,2015   225mg wellbutrin June 5, 200mg,July 2015, updosed 225mg, September 2015, 206mg, October, 2015 187.5mg, November  updosed to 200mg  May 2015, wellbutri167mg

 

Currently     Wellbutrin 187mg,      Lamictal 200mg,   Valium 2mg,    Doxepin 5.4mg July 09/16

 

 

 

 

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Do you have any other symptoms besides insomnia?

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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