vetdoc going off valium and Wellbutrin

[mammaP]

Glad it went well for you Vetdoc and hope you make a speedy recovery. 

[vetdoc]

Hi Guys

 

I find myself in a serious crisis right now.  I had my surgery recently and the surgery went ok and I'm still recovering. 

However I was just diagnosed with Diabetes and a peripheral neuropathy. I have to go for further tests next week to see if the nerve damage from the diabetes has also  affected my autonomic system particularly my gastric emptying.  If so it will make it even more difficult to regulate my blood sugars

 

This diagnosis has rocked my world.  I have fallen into a very serious and tortuous gloom and doom scenario  and it is paralyzing me.  I feel so fatigued, anxious and depressed, losing weight , it feels like I could die from this.  I can't sleep well and in the morning the gloom and doom feeling is scary like nothing I have ever felt.  I am ruminating constantly in my mind about what if scenarios with my health and life and they always wind up painting a hopeless situation for getting my life back.

 

I can't understand what is happening, I tapered off of 40 mg valium and now tapering off Wellbutrin and all during this  time I certainlyI have had difficult times, during serious waves, but never felt like this.  I always managed to find some kind of hope to pull me through the difficult times until things stabilized and I felt better.  Although I was struggling with health issues before my surgery and didn't feel great going into the surgery.

 

 

This diagnosis of Diabetes and permanent  peripheral nueropathy seems to have pushed me over the edge into a hopeless state for any kind of good outcome. This   is trerribly really frightening for me.  Besides feeling like this is the beginning of the end I am for the first time in my life having scary thoughts of death.  It is really a tortuous feeling and the anxiety has a death grip on me right now.

 

I'm not sure if the stress of all this has has triggered  withdrawal symptoms which  has heightened all my negative feelings.  I'm not sure how I am going to get over this it doesn't feel like it is going to end.  I usually can pull myself out of depression but this is as bad as it gets. 

 

Please let me hear form  you guys.  I need hope and support more then any time in my life.

 

Thanks

.

[nz11]

Vetdoc i havent read your whole thread only the last page .

I am so sorry you are in this difficult place...and no one has posted an encouraging word.

It seems this place is being hit with a surge of new members lately.

 

Please dont give up hope...for there is hope. You can survive this and make it to the otherside.

You are on cocktail of drugs and it is well known that situational stressors can worsen wdl symptoms or even trigger them.

 

These drugs have a habit of assaulting all the systems in the body and so it may not be appropriate to make diagnostic conclusions when these drugs are in play. It could be that as the dosages are tapered down the body may well recalibrate itself and it may not be a life sentence after-all.

 

Why are you adding more drugs to the mix i note you added doxepin just last month. Have you run all the drugs you are on through the drugs interaction checker? (sorry maybe you have in past postings ).

 

Hang in there you are not alone.

Wishing you strength.

 

nz11

[freespirit]

I haven't read your thread Vetdoc, just your most recent post. I agree that the diagnosis could be premature. My guess is that many people in WD have disturbed blood sugar. Did they do an A1C test or just fasting blood sugar? Not only can WD be a major factor in this, but so can the recent surgery. Any stress on top of WD can easily increase blood sugar levels.

 

I developed diabetes while on the drugs. During tapering and since jumping off, I've had more extremes at times...but for me, mostly low blood sugar. But there has been no rhyme or reason to the fluctuations--at least not based on diet and exercise. All part of the rebalancing of the brain and endocrine systems I imagine.

 

I suspect that many of us have also had periods of slow gastric emptying, so that is not necessarily a sign that you have neuropathy there. I had it for awhile, and then it completely cleared up.

 

If you're having trouble regulating your blood sugar currently (are you testing? are you on diabetes meds?), that can also very much contribute to low mood. Even if you do have diabetes, it can be very effectively managed and it's possible to avoid many of the associated problems.

 

What things are you able to do for self care? Most important to use whatever you can to help you through this time.

[vetdoc]

Vetdoc i havent read your whole thread only the last page .

I am so sorry you are in this difficult place...and no one has posted an encouraging word.

It seems this place is being hit with a surge of new members lately.

 

Please dont give up hope...for there is hope. You can survive this and make it to the otherside.

You are on cocktail of drugs and it is well known that situational stressors can worsen wdl symptoms or even trigger them.

 

These drugs have a habit of assaulting all the systems in the body and so it may not be appropriate to make diagnostic conclusions when these drugs are in play. It could be that as the dosages are tapered down the body may well recalibrate itself and it may not be a life sentence after-all.

 

Why are you adding more drugs to the mix i note you added doxepin just last month. Have you run all the drugs you are on through the drugs interaction checker? (sorry maybe you have in past postings ).

 

Hang in there you are not alone.

Wishing you strength.

 

nz11

 

Hi nz

Thanks for responding to my post, you are a good person.  I was starting to think I'm on my own here even though I have been on this forum for 2 years and have always gotten help and support when I needed it.    I'm not sure why no one responded to my post.  It doen't feel good to be alone in this and I always could count on some kind helpful responses fom good people on here!

  Alto always responds to my post and she has been helping me for the past 2 years.  Maybe she is not around right now.

 

I have been tapering for 3 years off Valium and then started Wellburrtin.  I am still on 200mg lamictal and 6 mg doxipen.  My taper has been up and down like most people coming off these drugs.  Good windows at times and alternating with itressing waves for weeks at a time.  My main withdrawal symptoms, are severe insomnia, (exhausting), some anxiety depression, DP/DR , anhedonia, loss of confidence, some hoplessness, brain fog,  and agraphobia.

 

However all through this time of tapering I forced myself to continue work, try and stay fit with exercise and be grateful to be alive.  I try to go outside regulary  take walks, to   appreciate nature, occasionally go out to eat at restaurants in spite of some agraphobia , anhedonia and try to assimilate a "normal" lifestyle.

This was difficult at times of serious waves, but I managed to endure and was able to manage my life  up to now.

 

The medications I am on aside from the with drawl symptoms have always caused me marked side effects. The Doxipen causing brain fog, confusion cloudy thinking.  The lamictal  causing nausea, some difficulty concentrating and interacts with doxipen to increase those symptoms.  The wellbutrin interacts with doxipen and increases doxepin effects by slowing metabolism of doxipen.

 

I know like you said that any stressors will exasperate all the withdrawl symptoms to a max degree.  I have had a major stressor since my tapering meds began having a young son with addiction issues and having to help him in his rocky struggle with recovery.   Also like you stated my altered mental state from  withdrawal reallly affects how I react to my recent physical diseases, it is all intertwined.  I just don't know why I have fallen so deeply in this doom and gloom cycle now and am having a difficult time seeing some light in front of me.  Yesterday I had a small wave of hope for half the day that I can make it through this, then in the morning when I awoke today the despair and gloom is back.   I'm also wondering if my recent surgery 2 weeks ago , 3 hrs of  anesthesia,  pain meds (fentynal), srtress has done something to set off major symptom withdrawals and the situation I'm in now.

 

There is no easy solution to this acute crisis, I wish there was, but all anyone can do including myself is have hope.  I just know I have to make it thru this and come out on the other side, not only for me,, but  for my wife and my son.   I' hoping others whom I know on the board will respond to my posts as you graciously as you did and give me there take on this situation.

 

Thank you

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry to hear this, vetdoc, and I'm sorry to have missed your post (I had computer problems for a couple of days).

 

Can you see another specialist, perhaps one with an integrative approach, and get another opinion about the diabetes? Often it's not as cut-and-dried as they make it out to be. Diet and exercise can do a lot.

[vetdoc]

I haven't read your thread Vetdoc, just your most recent post. I agree that the diagnosis could be premature. My guess is that many people in WD have disturbed blood sugar. Did they do an A1C test or just fasting blood sugar? Not only can WD be a major factor in this, but so can the recent surgery. Any stress on top of WD can easily increase blood sugar levels.

 

I developed diabetes while on the drugs. During tapering and since jumping off, I've had more extremes at times...but for me, mostly low blood sugar. But there has been no rhyme or reason to the fluctuations--at least not based on diet and exercise. All part of the rebalancing of the brain and endocrine systems I imagine.

 

I suspect that many of us have also had periods of slow gastric emptying, so that is not necessarily a sign that you have neuropathy there. I had it for awhile, and then it completely cleared up.

 

If you're having trouble regulating your blood sugar currently (are you testing? are you on diabetes meds?), that can also very much contribute to low mood. Even if you do have diabetes, it can be very effectively managed and it's possible to avoid many of the associated problems.

 

What things are you able to do for self care? Most important to use whatever you can to help you through this time.

 

Hi freespirit

Thank you for responding. Sorry to hear about your diabetes.

I have been "prediabetic for 5-6  years FBG 124 -126, A1c 6.0.  The former Doc I had never put me on any meds. Then  2 month ago I started having numbness and tingling in my feet.  I went to a new Doc who had me monitor my FBG and hourly and 2 hr post prandial glucose for a week   FBG was above 126 on 3 occasions The hourly FBG were averaging  about 165 (depending what I ate), and the 2 hr average about 140.

My last A1C in April was 5.9. 

.

Yes and you are right taking my blood glucose hourly and 2hour every meal for a week stressed me out big time whenever it I saw abnormal spikes..  I now only take it at 2 hrsPP   and in the morning.  It's still stressful if the numbers are high. I am going to the Endocrinologist to see about meds and discuss a plan of action.

Also having a test for gastoparesis to check my emptying time on Wednesday.

 

I have been struggling for the past 4 yrs with getting off the Psych meds, with windows and waves, withdrawls and side effects of the meds.  It was difficult but I managed to stay strong thru it  both mentally and physically and got on with my life.  .

I was always worried that at my age I could develop a major physical ailment that would add max stress to my life while tapering the meds.  I think the fact that a lot of the physical stuff  (major prostate surgery, diabetes, peripheral nueropathy all hit me at once put me over the top right now .  

I'm really fatigued and don't feel physically or mentally strong like I did a year ago.  I have lost about 5 lbs in past month and I'm already skinny.   Every symptom seems to add to my anxiety.and depression at this point.

 

I am trying to do some meditation and mindfulness to alleviate some stress.  I am going for walks about 2 miles a day. I did contact a therapist who does mindfulness and CBT therapy so I will see her for a few sessions to see if I like it.    I must find a way to get thru this

 

Thanks Freespirit

[vetdoc]

I'm sorry to hear this, vetdoc, and I'm sorry to have missed your post (I had computer problems for a couple of days).

 

Can you see another specialist, perhaps one with an integrative approach, and get another opinion about the diabetes? Often it's not as cut-and-dried as they make it out to be. Diet and exercise can do a lot.

Alto I was certain that you weren't available.  I know you would never ignore me!!

 

I may get a second opinion from a integrative DR after I see the Endocrinologist. 

 

I'm looking back on my symptom diary and older posts from October 2015 and the marked insomnia, some anxiety ,depression and doom and gloom feeling especially in the morning was starting to appear then. .   This was all due to the withdrawal symptoms at the time because  I was not diagnosed with the physical problems until the past 2 months.  So it appears I had horrible waves between windows since October and the mounting stress of the physical symptoms just added to my anxiety to get me here.  . It has just intensified 10 fold right now

 

Also I know the side effects particularly the lamictal, and Doxipen having been wreaking havoc for a long time.  I'm alwys nauseous, headache, tinnitus  and marked brain fog, unclear,  causing a drugged feeling all the time.

 

I actually have been holding my taper for at least 4 months to stabilize.  I don't know what to do at this point taper or just hold??? 

I know the doxipen make me groggy and druggy in the morning for part of the day. I also think the lamictal is making me sick. I have a terrible dry mouth and bad taste all the time.  My appetite is way off for a long time now.  When I put these drugs in my mouth every morning I feel like I am poisoning myself a little more.

 

Thanks Alto

[vetdoc]

I'm not sure why this  wave of symptoms especially the anxiety, morning doom and gloom and depression started after my surgery.  Whats the possibility that the anesthesia and opiates I was given triggered this severe wave crisis?  

 

What I realized today what is most disturbing and scary about these severe symptoms and how I am feeling now is they trigger horrible memories of when I was  put me in the hospital 4 yrs ago.  That horrible experience and treatment protocol started this poly drugging for me 4 yrs ago.

 

Having the memory of that horrible experience  surface now scares me to death.   I have only had it happen a few times during my tapering the past 4 years. when my anxiety symptoms got severe..    I told my wife tonight no matter what I can never go back to that  hospital ever again , they almost killed me there.

 

I hope you guys can understand what I'm saying even if you don't quite know how I feel. 

 

I can't even talk to my PDoc because all he will do is try and convince me to either reinstate my meds or prescribe more.  I just can't ever do any more meds

I need to find a way to hold on and survive these feelings without meds, like I have done for 4 years.

 

Thanks guys keep your comments and suggestions coming it all helps.

[savinggrace]

Verdict,

I can relate to you on so many levels and I am going to write a long post to you soon. It is time for me to "unplug" and try to unwind for the night.

 

I absolutely believe that the anesthesia could have triggered a wave, having just experienced that myself.

 

I will write more later. I have been diagnosed w/ most of what you have and treat it all with lifestyle and good nutrition. I will not accept any new drugs; haven't for almost a decade.

 

More soon,

Grace

[Marsha]

Vetdoc, I wish I could express myself better so I could give you some encouragement. I also am experiencing severe health issues due to the drugs. I can relate to so much that you have expressed. I am recovering from a long journey like you. I was also diagnosed with diabetes but I don't have it anymore. I take one day at a time. I am so awkward with words i really hope I don't cause you any distress. I am sure you can get through this difficult point in your life and taper. Try to hang on.

[scallywag]

vetdoc, You're not alone in having horrible memories of hospitalization.  I have my own experience when my partner of 5 years was an inpatient only for several days.  I try not to think about that time, but sometimes it's overwhelming.  I'm thinking about EMDR therapy - eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's used to help people de-traumatize traumatic experiences. You can read more about it here:
 
Wikipedia: EMDR
 
There's discussion of it in the Neuro-emotions thread starting with this post from elbee:

[AliG]

 Hey V.D .

I'm not sure why this  wave of symptoms especially the anxiety, morning doom and gloom and depression started after my surgery.  Whats the possibility that the anesthesia and opiates I was given triggered this severe wave crisis? 

 

I would think it is possible that it caused a wave . It makes a lot of sense , doesn't it . I would hate to be " put under " for anything right now, and also into the future. Having said that , I'm sure you will be fine . I just have a healthy " disrespect "  for any medical procedures and will always question the validity of them from hereon in . I think we all should ! 

Ali

[vetdoc]

Verdict,

I can relate to you on so many levels and I am going to write a long post to you soon. It is time for me to "unplug" and try to unwind for the night.

 

I absolutely believe that the anesthesia could have triggered a wave, having just experienced that myself.

 

I will write more later. I have been diagnosed w/ most of what you have and treat it all with lifestyle and good nutrition. I will not accept any new drugs; haven't for almost a decade.

 

More soon,

Grace

Hi Grace

I would like to hear about your experience with anesthesia. 

Thanks

[vetdoc]

Vetdoc, I wish I could express myself better so I could give you some encouragement. I also am experiencing severe health issues due to the drugs. I can relate to so much that you have expressed. I am recovering from a long journey like you. I was also diagnosed with diabetes but I don't have it anymore. I take one day at a time. I am so awkward with words i really hope I don't cause you any distress. I am sure you can get through this difficult point in your life and taper. Try to hang on.

Marsha thanks for your encouraging words.  I wish you well in your continuing recovery.

[vetdoc]

vetdoc, You're not alone in having horrible memories of hospitalization.  I have my own experience when my partner of 5 years was an inpatient only for several days.  I try not to think about that time, but sometimes it's overwhelming.  I'm thinking about EMDR therapy - eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's used to help people de-traumatize traumatic experiences. You can read more about it here:

 

Wikipedia: EMDR

 

There's discussion of it in the Neuro-emotions thread starting with this post from elbee:

Scallywag    In patient Hospital memories for psych drug issues always produce nightmares.  It is very overwhelming to think of the treatment methods used  and how poorly one is treated as a person.  I would never go back.

[vetdoc]

 Hey V.D .

I'm not sure why this  wave of symptoms especially the anxiety, morning doom and gloom and depression started after my surgery.  Whats the possibility that the anesthesia and opiates I was given triggered this severe wave crisis? 

 

I would think it is possible that it caused a wave . It makes a lot of sense , doesn't it . I would hate to be " put under " for anything right now, and also into the future. Having said that , I'm sure you will be fine . I just have a healthy " disrespect "  for any medical procedures and will always question the validity of them from hereon in . I think we all should ! 

Ali

Yes it makes sense since our brains are exposed to other central nervous system drugs on top of those we are tapering.  The added assault on nuero transmitters can probably cause acute symptoms.

[Altostrata]

The anesthesia and opiates could definitely cause some kind of reaction from your sensitized nervous system.

 

Your reaction to the drugs you're taking could also have changed. Why do you think you're reacting badly to lamotrigine? Do you feel odd after you take it?

 

Daily symptom notes with the timing and amount of drug dosages will help us see if any of the drugs is causing a reaction.

[vetdoc]

The anesthesia and opiates could definitely cause some kind of reaction from your sensitized nervous system.

 

Your reaction to the drugs you're taking could also have changed. Why do you think you're reacting badly to lamotrigine? Do you feel odd after you take it?

 

Daily symptom notes with the timing and amount of drug dosages will help us see if any of the drugs is causing a reaction.

Alto Since the  heightened anxiety crisis started right after the surgery something must have happened to my brain.  When you say something may have changed with the reaction to the drugs I'm taking are you referring because of the surgery? 

The combination of all my drugs taken every day always leaves me with brain fog and a drugged feeling.  The lamictal I think makes me nauseous. I really can't tell which drug causes me the most side effects. 

 

I went to the Endocrinologist today and he didn't feel my diabetes was very bad.  He didn't start me out on medication.  

 

When I got weighed I lost 7 lbs since my surgery 3 weeks ago!! .That seems like a lot.   I was shocked by this, even though I know I have been under severe anxiety and depression the past 3 weeks.  I haven't had much of an appetite at all.    I have now lost a total of 10 lbs in the past 6 months.  The DR wants to rule out some serious stuff so I have to undergo a bunch of tests and scans. 

 

This just adds to my heightened anxiety thinking I could have something terminal.  I'm quite concerened but I have to do the tests to rule out any medical issues for my weight loss and fatique.

 

 I haven't been sleeping well for the past 6 months from withdrawl symptoms  and I have had anxiety almost nightly.  I know that anxiety can cause weight loss and fatique in people. 

 

  Do you think that chronic anxiety, not sleeping well  and tapering the meds could have caused my weight loss and fatique.   I'm trying to give myself an out here, rather then thinking I going to be diagnosed with a disease that may not be treatable.  The tests will start tommorrow.

[savinggrace]

Hi Vetdoc,

 

In a nutshell, I had a 15 minute procedure using only propofol on June 1st. Many of my symptoms got worse almost immediately. Propofol acts on GABA receptors so my brain basically got a big up dose, though it is short-acting.

I had the procedure at a hospital instead of a endoscopy center so they would use propofol instead of versed which has peaked my w/d symptoms much worse=
in the past.

Can you find out ahead of time which anesthesia they will be using? It's worth an appt. to discuss your concerns/wishes. They usually combine versed/fentanyl, too, which complicates side effects even more.  Propofol can only be used in a hospital setting. You need to talk to the anesthesiologist ahead of time (not 5 minutes before your surgery, which is a common occurrence.)  I always have to convince the anesthesiologist to use the lowest effective dose possible and then I ask if he/she will be adding any other meds to the mix.  For example, on my last procedure he mentioned he would add Zoran to the mix to prevent nausea when I came out of anesthesia.  I have never gotten nauseous from anesthesia, so I politely asked him not to give it to me, assuring him that I would blame myself if I was throwing up later.  He did not use the zofran and I did not throw up.  It is fairly common for anesthesiologists to add all sorts of drugs to the "cocktail" they decide to give you, and sometimes it is not easy to "handle" their egos and expertise when asking for something different.  Another example...I was getting an injection in my neck about 5 years ago.  The anesthesiologist was going to give me a full dose of the steroid commonly used.  I convinced her, (and it wasn't easy) to use half the normal dose.  The 1/2 dose was effective and my body had to deal with less steroidal side effect.  We DO have some control over our medical care though it is much more difficult when you are asleep and they decide you need something.

 

I read the last couple pages of your posts.  We are alike in many ways.  I am having a long, slow arduous journey off these drugs and not one step of it has been easy. I, too, was diagnosed as diabetic about a decade ago.  After a couple of months of monitoring my blood sugar after meals, I figured out just how to eat to keep my blood sugar level below 140 PP (not ideal but that is the number I tried to stay under)  My FBS continues to be around 100 or so, checked annually, and my A1C continues to hover between 5.5-6.3 (lowest and highest in 10 years)  That said, I changed my diet completely on diagnosis, and I already had a pretty good one, but I took it very seriously as I don't want to go on diabetes medicine EVER.  I try very hard not to add anything else to this poisonous mix of drugs I am on.  It does take discipline, but honestly, until the gastroparesis started, that diet was a piece of cake.  (well, not a piece of cake because I don't eat cake  )

 

I got a gastroparesis diagnosis this past January.  It was done because I had been suffering from chronic nausea.  A gall bladder test was negative, I had an endoscopy which showed Barrett's esophagus, but I still wasn't better.  MY GI diagnosed GP w/o the emptying test, but I had it to confirm the diagnosis.  My stomach does empty slowly, and I have altered my diet quite a bit, eating smaller meals more frequently.  I lost 20 pounds (didn't need to) but I am adjusting to this diet pretty well.  I am not on a standard GP diet at all.  If you look that up, it makes no sense.  It is full of sugar (and dairy, which I am allergic to) and no meat/fiber.  The rest of my body won't tolerate that so I have spent the last 6 months trying to manage Barrett's esophagus, blood sugar, GP, IBS, and many food allergies.  I am taking no meds for any of these conditions.  My weight, though low, is leveling out.  I still have periods of nausea and other GI distress.

 

I, too, was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy about 8 years ago.  I had a lot of pain in my feet.  I had physical therapy for a while for it, and I made accommodations in my shoes, exercising, etc. but took no meds for it.   Eventually it cleared up and has been pretty good.  I do think I have neuropathy in other parts of my body as well but I have learned to live with all of it by making lifestyle accommodations and the best choices I can that are drug-free.

 

Try not to imagine the worst with these new diagnoses.  Many of them, unless they are very severe, can be managed w/o drugs.  It should be noted that I had never started vomiting from the GP;  it is when constant vomiting and inability to eat anything at all happens, that more intervention is needed.  Meanwhile, just having the GP diagnosis, (w/o symptoms?) is just that...a diagnosis...and likely the result of damage to our CNS from these drugs we are on.  You CAN manage your blood sugar w/o meds.  Your numbers are not high at all and I have managed to keep them at a borderline-line level for years.  All I do is have my A1C checked annually and watch my carb/sugar intake, being careful to balance protein, fat and carbs to avoid insulin spikes.

 

NONE of this is easy...none of it.  This is where we are, and what we have to deal with.  You will adjust.  A new diagnosis always gets my head spinning and my brain ruminating and then a plan of how to handle it slowly evolves.

 
Questions?

Food for thought, not worry!!  Worry doesn't add one day to your life.  (if only I could convince MYSELF of that!)

Grace

[vetdoc]

Dear

 

Hi Vetdoc,

 

In a nutshell, I had a 15 minute procedure using only propofol on June 1st. Many of my symptoms got worse almost immediately. Propofol acts on GABA receptors so my brain basically got a big up dose, though it is short-acting.

I had the procedure at a hospital instead of a endoscopy center so they would use propofol instead of versed which has peaked my w/d symptoms much worse=
in the past.

Can you find out ahead of time which anesthesia they will be using? It's worth an appt. to discuss your concerns/wishes. They usually combine versed/fentanyl, too, which complicates side effects even more.  Propofol can only be used in a hospital setting. You need to talk to the anesthesiologist ahead of time (not 5 minutes before your surgery, which is a common occurrence.)  I always have to convince the anesthesiologist to use the lowest effective dose possible and then I ask if he/she will be adding any other meds to the mix.  For example, on my last procedure he mentioned he would add Zoran to the mix to prevent nausea when I came out of anesthesia.  I have never gotten nauseous from anesthesia, so I politely asked him not to give it to me, assuring him that I would blame myself if I was throwing up later.  He did not use the zofran and I did not throw up.  It is fairly common for anesthesiologists to add all sorts of drugs to the "cocktail" they decide to give you, and sometimes it is not easy to "handle" their egos and expertise when asking for something different.  Another example...I was getting an injection in my neck about 5 years ago.  The anesthesiologist was going to give me a full dose of the steroid commonly used.  I convinced her, (and it wasn't easy) to use half the normal dose.  The 1/2 dose was effective and my body had to deal with less steroidal side effect.  We DO have some control over our medical care though it is much more difficult when you are asleep and they decide you need something.

 

I read the last couple pages of your posts.  We are alike in many ways.  I am having a long, slow arduous journey off these drugs and not one step of it has been easy. I, too, was diagnosed as diabetic about a decade ago.  After a couple of months of monitoring my blood sugar after meals, I figured out just how to eat to keep my blood sugar level below 140 PP (not ideal but that is the number I tried to stay under)  My FBS continues to be around 100 or so, checked annually, and my A1C continues to hover between 5.5-6.3 (lowest and highest in 10 years)  That said, I changed my diet completely on diagnosis, and I already had a pretty good one, but I took it very seriously as I don't want to go on diabetes medicine EVER.  I try very hard not to add anything else to this poisonous mix of drugs I am on.  It does take discipline, but honestly, until the gastroparesis started, that diet was a piece of cake.  (well, not a piece of cake because I don't eat cake  )

 

I got a gastroparesis diagnosis this past January.  It was done because I had been suffering from chronic nausea.  A gall bladder test was negative, I had an endoscopy which showed Barrett's esophagus, but I still wasn't better.  MY GI diagnosed GP w/o the emptying test, but I had it to confirm the diagnosis.  My stomach does empty slowly, and I have altered my diet quite a bit, eating smaller meals more frequently.  I lost 20 pounds (didn't need to) but I am adjusting to this diet pretty well.  I am not on a standard GP diet at all.  If you look that up, it makes no sense.  It is full of sugar (and dairy, which I am allergic to) and no meat/fiber.  The rest of my body won't tolerate that so I have spent the last 6 months trying to manage Barrett's esophagus, blood sugar, GP, IBS, and many food allergies.  I am taking no meds for any of these conditions.  My weight, though low, is leveling out.  I still have periods of nausea and other GI distress.

 

I, too, was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy about 8 years ago.  I had a lot of pain in my feet.  I had physical therapy for a while for it, and I made accommodations in my shoes, exercising, etc. but took no meds for it.   Eventually it cleared up and has been pretty good.  I do think I have neuropathy in other parts of my body as well but I have learned to live with all of it by making lifestyle accommodations and the best choices I can that are drug-free.

 

Try not to imagine the worst with these new diagnoses.  Many of them, unless they are very severe, can be managed w/o drugs.  It should be noted that I had never started vomiting from the GP;  it is when constant vomiting and inability to eat anything at all happens, that more intervention is needed.  Meanwhile, just having the GP diagnosis, (w/o symptoms?) is just that...a diagnosis...and likely the result of damage to our CNS from these drugs we are on.  You CAN manage your blood sugar w/o meds.  Your numbers are not high at all and I have managed to keep them at a borderline-line level for years.  All I do is have my A1C checked annually and watch my carb/sugar intake, being careful to balance protein, fat and carbs to avoid insulin spikes.

 

NONE of this is easy...none of it.  This is where we are, and what we have to deal with.  You will adjust.  A new diagnosis always gets my head spinning and my brain ruminating and then a plan of how to handle it slowly evolves.

 
Questions?

Food for thought, not worry!!  Worry doesn't add one day to your life.  (if only I could convince MYSELF of that!)

Grace

Dear Grace

 

I have to thank you for your detailed and caring post. 

 

I suspect that both the propofol and the gas anesthesia affected my nervous system negatively.  Like you mentioned both of these drugs affect the gaba A receptors.  I went into this surgery in an already high anxiety state from a wave I was in for several weeks.  The stress of the surgery just put my anxiety at an all time high, with little relief for several weeks.  I lost my appetite lost about 8 lbs (I'm already skinny) and increased my insomnia. I am still recovering from the surgical pain but won;t take any pain meds.

 

I see that your journey has bee a long and difficult one, similar to mine.  I am so very happy for you that you persevered and continued to go on with your life in a positive way.  I know how hard and arduous that journey is every step of the way.  I admire you for it.

The diagnosis of diabetes and  peripheral neuropathy scared me to death and had me ruminating about the beginning of the end for me.  That is part of my difficult anxiety which can turn things like this into a gloom and doom situation.  I appreciate your explantion of how you managed and handeled  your diabetes.  It gives me hope I can do the same.  I am going to try and do this without meds just like you.

 

I am going for my gastric emptying time study in a few weeks to see if I defintely have gastroparesis.  If I do it is fairly mild at this point with some intermittant nausea the only symptom. .  I to  also have Gastric reflux disease which does cause major digestive upsets at times. I don't have Barretts yet.  I may start the Paleo diet to see if that helps my digestion, and may talk to a nutritionist.  I have lost about 15 lbs over the past year probably due to withdrawl and major anxiety associated with so many symptoms, insomnia being the worst.  I am going for some CT Scans just to make certain there is no other reason for my weight loss and fatique. 

It is impressive and a testament to your stregnth that you are managing IBS, Diabetes,gastroparesis, and Baretts with no meds. 

Do you have GERD or hiatal hernia?

 

I am going to try and not all these diagnosis take me to a bad place.  I just need to process the info and like you come up with a plan.  I am going to get some help with my anxiety problem, seeing a therapist who uses cognitive behavior, and mindfulness.  I need to learn to take control of my anxiety not let it get the best of me.   I know now that worry will not get me any where except depressed and anxious.  I must learn how to live a life with peace both emotional and spiritual. This is my goal.

 

None of this is easy, sometimes its tortuous but we are surviving it and trying to get to the other side.  It is quite amazing how similar our journey has been.  I know you will persevere just seeing the attitude you have and my  sense you are good person   You have given me hope and confidence that I can manage all this and I thank you Grace.

[savinggrace]

Hi again,

 

Please feel free to post any questions any time. You can PM me for specific answers to get my attention faster, if need be.

 

Hold off on the Paleo diet. If you do have GP, it is actually meat free and low fiber , though not necessary for those of us in the early stages. I still eat meat; I have to in order to balance my blood sugar. You can use dairy for this, which is easier for your digestion if you have no dairy problems. I have to balance all my GI issues and they all require different dos and don't's! It's really trial and error every day. The hardest thing for me has been cutting back on the large amount of green veggies I used to eat. Most green veggies, while one of the best things for most people's health, are quite hard to digest. I don't eat fruit either as most fruit wreaks havoc w/ blood sugar or GP, IBS, or my allergies. Berries are fine though and I used to eat them every day, but I developed an intolerance to them too!' Mostly I eat really bland boring food but I rotate foods as much as possible and have a pretty short list. I just can't worry about. Vitamin deficiencies. I eat what I can tolerate THAT DAY....every day is different. It is all very depressing and hard, but I have learn d to accept a lot of changes in 8 months that I couldn't have i magined had someone told me what I would have to do. I was already halfway there, but it has been hard...especially not being able to out or even entertain people and eat what I serve them. I actually still go out w/ my husband and others, but often don't eat; I just go for the social interaction. Eventually it all gets easier; it really does.

 

All the various diets can be over-whelming. I have a great quote about managing it all I will try and find it and send it to you as it sums it up perfectly. Most importantly, you don't have to figure out your new normal all at once. It will take time and patience and determination but you can do it. Trying to stay off other meds has been pretty motivating for me.

 

I hope your next tests don't turn up anything new. I think the weight loss is perfectly predictable.

 

You can handle it. Nobody could have ever con in Ed me that I could live this way, but I have for 8 months and I am still alive and kicking!

 

Best,

Grace

[savinggrace]

The quote I referred to...

 

The Ultimate Digestive Troubleshooting Guide: What to Do When Diet Isn’t Helping Your Stomach Problems

“The diet that will work for you has no name.

You have a custom solution.You’re not going to be able to follow Breaking the Vicious Cycle and do SCD exactly as it’s laid out. You’re not going to be able to pick up a Paleo book and follow that blueprint and have it work for you. It’s just unrealistic. To get to the diet that works for you, you have to troubleshoot. You have to tweak. You have to be a health engineer!It’s a different mindset…I’m going to say this again: It is a different mindset.It is so important to know that. There is no pre-written script that says follow these exact steps and your specific digestive problems will go away… and that makes it tough – it isn’t coming to you pre-packaged.For example, some people don’t tolerate dairy. Others don’t tolerate legumes. Many don’t even tolerate fermented foods or food with high FODMAPs.

And that’s where people fail, that’s where the diet stops working and that’s where people lose hope. But if you keep your hope; if you change your mindset and keep your hope that YOU are a health engineer and YOU will figure this out, then you will succeed.”

- [ ] http://scdlifestyle.com/2014/09/the-...hooting-guide/

[vetdoc]

Hi again,

 

Please feel free to post any questions any time. You can PM me for specific answers to get my attention faster, if need be.

 

Hold off on the Paleo diet. If you do have GP, it is actually meat free and low fiber , though not necessary for those of us in the early stages. I still eat meat; I have to in order to balance my blood sugar. You can use dairy for this, which is easier for your digestion if you have no dairy problems. I have to balance all my GI issues and they all require different dos and don't's! It's really trial and error every day. The hardest thing for me has been cutting back on the large amount of green veggies I used to eat. Most green veggies, while one of the best things for most people's health, are quite hard to digest. I don't eat fruit either as most fruit wreaks havoc w/ blood sugar or GP, IBS, or my allergies. Berries are fine though and I used to eat them every day, but I developed an intolerance to them too!' Mostly I eat really bland boring food but I rotate foods as much as possible and have a pretty short list. I just can't worry about. Vitamin deficiencies. I eat what I can tolerate THAT DAY....every day is different. It is all very depressing and hard, but I have learn d to accept a lot of changes in 8 months that I couldn't have i magined had someone told me what I would have to do. I was already halfway there, but it has been hard...especially not being able to out or even entertain people and eat what I serve them. I actually still go out w/ my husband and others, but often don't eat; I just go for the social interaction. Eventually it all gets easier; it really does.

 

All the various diets can be over-whelming. I have a great quote about managing it all I will try and find it and send it to you as it sums it up perfectly. Most importantly, you don't have to figure out your new normal all at once. It will take time and patience and determination but you can do it. Trying to stay off other meds has been pretty motivating for me.

 

I hope your next tests don't turn up anything new. I think the weight loss is perfectly predictable.

 

You can handle it. Nobody could have ever con in Ed me that I could live this way, but I have for 8 months and I am still alive and kicking!

 

Best,

Grace

Thanks Grace for the info and vote of confidence.  Ill be having my CT Scans tomorrow, I'm anxious, but I need to know if there is something more serious going on with my health. 

 

Ive probably not encountered this level of anxiety since I started my tapering 3 yrs ago. I have had some anxiety all thru my taper, but not this intense. I am trying not to let it take me over.

 I would like to know why it's happening now, but trying to figure out why it has gotten this bad is impossible and only causes more anxiety. 

The intensity scares me, but I have to sit with it and tell myself it won;t kill me (although it feels that way some times)  I pray it will lessen soon.

[savinggrace]

I pray it will lessen for you too! I think your recent surgery, the anesthesia, and all the medical tests have likely ramped up your anxiety. I think getting these CT scans over with will help. You will be able to start to accept the tapering symptoms as what they are...just symptoms, and make a positive plan for maintaining your health while attempting to decrease your drugs. In my experience, unintentional weight loss always gets a lot of attention in the medical world. I have had many tests for the same reason and have not learned anything I can't handle myself w/o drugs. I feel hopeful for you that that will be your outcome as well.

 

Good luck tomorrow. Keep us posted. Information is power. Once you get it, you will feel less anxious.

 

Grace

[vetdoc]

Just checking in.  I had my CT Scans of my abdomen and chest on Friday.  The DR called today and said the scans were normal.  I was relieved to hear this.  I really thought when I got this good news my depression would surely lift almost immediately.  It may be a little better ,but still hanging on pretty bad, not sure why.

 

I did something very foolish with my Wellbutrin dosage the past week that certainly can't help matters with how I'm feeling right now.

 

I normally take 150 mg of SR and 17mg of IR daily  (167mg) for past 5 months.

I foolishly thought maybe udosing to 187mg might help get me out of this depression so for 2 days I went and took (187.5mg)    I then decided after 2 days it was probably a bad idea and dropped backdown  to my normal 167mg total daily dose.   I took this 167mg normal dose for about 3 days when   realized I was out of the 75mg IR tabs, I normally cut into quarters to get the 167mg dose.   I had to take 150 mg SR  for 4 days until I could reach my PDoc who was out of town till today. I went back up to my normal 167mg daily dose today.

 

I know  my judgement was way off updosing for 2 days to 187mg,  and then running out of the 75 mg IR really messed  things up.

Do you think this screw up will cause my symptoms  to  flare badly. . If so how long will it normally take for my nervous system to settle down and achieve homeostasis back on my normal 167mg dose.   I have never in all my tapering messed up like this I am so upset.   I am usually very anal how I taper the meds. 

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Impossible to tell, vetdoc. Has your symptom pattern changed since the Wellbutrin adjustment?

[vetdoc]

Impossible to tell, vetdoc. Has your symptom pattern changed since the Wellbutrin adjustment?

It's hard to tell right now Alto.  I'm still pretty symptomatic from the surgery anesthesia episode the past 3 weeks (anxiety, depression).  I have felt pretty bad the past several days so it;s possible the wellbutrin dose adjustments may be in play also.

I would think that since it was only 4 days where my Wellbutrin dose was down to 150mg  and immediately  today updosed back on the 167mg correct dose , my nervous system should equilibrate fairly rapidly.  What do you think Alto.

[savinggrace]

Hi Vetdoc,

 

I am sorry to hear about this glitch in your tapering.  I think I speak for many when I say we all make mistakes, or even take desperate, but calculated risks at one time or another.  Just yesterday I took my whole valium dose by accident, at once, and I was pretty upset because I have been taking it in divided doses for years.  I was worried about what this small change in my blood level would do, but so far I don't feel any different.

 

The point is, once we make a mistake, all we can do is ride out what does, or doesn't happen.  You will never be able to sort out if what you did is causing your symptoms as there are so many variables.  So, take a deep breath, and know that you will get past this.  Once we swallow a pill, there is no turning back...that is why we are all here!!

 

Good to hear they found nothing w/ the CT scan.  When is your gastric emptying test?

 

Grace

[vetdoc]

Hi Vetdoc,

 

I am sorry to hear about this glitch in your tapering.  I think I speak for many when I say we all make mistakes, or even take desperate, but calculated risks at one time or another.  Just yesterday I took my whole valium dose by accident, at once, and I was pretty upset because I have been taking it in divided doses for years.  I was worried about what this small change in my blood level would do, but so far I don't feel any different.

 

The point is, once we make a mistake, all we can do is ride out what does, or doesn't happen.  You will never be able to sort out if what you did is causing your symptoms as there are so many variables.  So, take a deep breath, and know that you will get past this.  Once we swallow a pill, there is no turning back...that is why we are all here!!

 

Good to hear they found nothing w/ the CT scan.  When is your gastric emptying test?

 

Grace

Hi Grace

Once again thank you for being the  voice of reason and comfort.   I'm sorry you messed up with your valium but I doubt  you even feel a bump from this. 

 

I;m feeling better today less anxiety and depression   I hope this window continues and I get back to being somewhat stable.  I'm trying to keep a very detailed log of my symptoms and meds.  I think Im seeing a pattern of feeling poorly in the morning ,brain fog, groggy, confused, slightly depressed.  These all can be side effects of the  Doxipen I take to sleep at night.

 

The Wellbutrin has a reported interaction with the Doxipen,  Wellbutrin inhibits the CYP2d6 enzyme that metabolises the doxipen, which in turn causes increase blood  levels of Doxipen. 

I think I need to start a taper of the Doxipen in order to decrease the blood levels I am getting which may be causing increased symptoms.

 

I have my gastric emptying study on July 12 Possibly a few more blood tests for endocrine things like cortisol, thyroid, adrenal function.

If all these tests are good then I;m cleared for any serious life ending disease.   I think my anxiety lifts each time another test is good.

 

I hope your doing well Grace.

  Peace

[vetdoc]

Hi guys

 

Checking in. 

I felt decent for a day or two and thought I was turning around from this depression crisis, but past few days the anxiety, depression, poor appetite and poor sleep are back and lingering.  It just feels like a constant cloud  hanging over me.  I really hate the feeling, it just consumes my days.

I had to stop working for now which I never did in the past four years of tapering.  That's a big negative for me.

 

I keep trying to figure out why this is happening spending a good portion of my day looking for some concrete reason for this miserable turn of events after my surgery. I know it's not the thing to do and obviously I can't find an answer so I just keep chasing my tail.  I haven't tapered my meds for almost 3 months.  So I don't see how it is withdrawal symptoms.  If the symptoms are related to my surgery, it almost a month gone by already.  I would have expected it to pass by now??

 

I don't know how one of my meds could be causing this after being on them for this long.   Is  it possible to have a med turn on me and give me side effects like this after all this time?? 

 

I have my internist and my gastroenterologist Doc telling me I need professional  help with this and are recommending P Docs.  Thats' even more depressing on two fronts.  First of all I could never be put on a roller coaster of drugs again which is all a P Doc would give me.  Also since I am so vulnerable right now, it makes me feel that maybe their right and I am a mental case and do have "Bi Polar" diagnosis pinned on me 4 years go.  It makes me want to cry sometimes, the maddness of it all!!!

 

I know no one can help me just solve this, with a magic pill.   I just really need to  hear from others experiences  who have been thru this and seen the other side.  I need major support right now more then I have in a long time.  I want to hear and believe this will get better at some point, I really do.

 

Thank You 

[savinggrace]

Hi vetdoc,

 

Yes, it's me again, but I sympathize with you so much as our stories and symptoms are much the same.

 

It can take weeks for anesthesia to completely leave your body. Wasn't your surgery 2 hours long? That's 2 hours of a new drug affecting your brain and interacting w/ the meds you take. So far, I have avoided long surgeries (though I think I may need one soon) but 15 minutes of propofol sets me back several weeks. It has happened three times because of tests under sedation in the last 8 months.

 

I often wonder if new side effects emerge after many years on a drug. I think there is likely a cumulative effect, such as what I have experienced w/ nearly all my GI system mal-functioning.

 

I think in the midst of tapering, even those of us who are going slowly and have years to go, experience waves and windows, inexplicably, sometimes from one day to the next.

 

I think you have to cling to hope each day...that tomorrow will be better and then assure yourself that you can get through anything.

 

Do you have a Pdoc? A new one would likely push new drugs. You are not bi-polar from past descriptions. You are in withdrawal, and, like me, it seems tortuously long and hard and the end is not in sight.

 

Every tiny bit less of any med we take is less of a toxic load to our body. Our brains are remodeling. This is not a linear process with an instruction manual...darn it!!! We have to do our best with each day. You have had a very long journey, like me, and there has been a big bump in the road. You will recover from the bump. You just need time.

 

I guess I haven't "seen the other side" for a long time, but I get glimpses and I cling to them.

 

Meanwhile, know that I, and many, care about your suffering.

 

Grace

[Altostrata]

vetdoc, a big stressor such as anesthesia and surgery will rock the boat of a vulnerable nervous system. Your boat is still rocking, hopefully not as much as it was before, and it will take time for it to settle.

 

What is your symptom pattern for several hours after you take Wellbutrin?

 

What do you mean by "depressed"? "Depression" is a common side effect of benzos such as Valium.

 

How would you cope if you knew that everything you're experiencing was a side effect of drugs and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with you?

[bubble]

Feeling decent for a day or two and then the return of the symptoms: sounds lot like windows and waves...Remember, there is no really turning around from this, just exchange of windows and waves.

 

I actually see you stop working as something good. You deserve it, you need it, you can afford it and great that you did this act of self-care. Those few decent days tell me you started stabilising and there are more decent days to come and waves getting weaker. I hope it already happened as I'm writing this.

 

You are very right in saying what you need at the moment: hope, faith and reassurance that this is all part of the healing process after the turmoil caused by surgery. And so it is. One month may seem a lot but actually it's not...

 

Let us know how you are doing.

[vetdoc]

Hi vetdoc,

 

Yes, it's me again, but I sympathize with you so much as our stories and symptoms are much the same.

 

It can take weeks for anesthesia to completely leave your body. Wasn't your surgery 2 hours long? That's 2 hours of a new drug affecting your brain and interacting w/ the meds you take. So far, I have avoided long surgeries (though I think I may need one soon) but 15 minutes of propofol sets me back several weeks. It has happened three times because of tests under sedation in the last 8 months.

 

I often wonder if new side effects emerge after many years on a drug. I think there is likely a cumulative effect, such as what I have experienced w/ nearly all my GI system mal-functioning.

 

I think in the midst of tapering, even those of us who are going slowly and have years to go, experience waves and windows, inexplicably, sometimes from one day to the next.

 

I think you have to cling to hope each day...that tomorrow will be better and then assure yourself that you can get through anything.

 

Do you have a Pdoc? A new one would likely push new drugs. You are not bi-polar from past descriptions. You are in withdrawal, and, like me, it seems tortuously long and hard and the end is not in sight.

 

Every tiny bit less of any med we take is less of a toxic load to our body. Our brains are remodeling. This is not a linear process with an instruction manual...darn it!!! We have to do our best with each day. You have had a very long journey, like me, and there has been a big bump in the road. You will recover from the bump. You just need time.

 

I guess I haven't "seen the other side" for a long time, but I get glimpses and I cling to them.

 

Meanwhile, know that I, and many, care about your suffering.

 

Grace

 Hi Grace

 

I always appreciate your posts and feel the sincerity of your empathy and caring.   My surgery was over 2hrs and my nervous sytem was pretty fragile going in to the surgery so I guess I need more time.  Thanks for reminding me it's just a bump, and Ill get over it.

 Sometimes I don't believe I can feel this bad just from these meds      So I get anxious.and get scared by the thoughts that creep in , but I have to remember that these floating thoughts  have no real  truth behind them and I have to let them go.  

 

I to wonder about a lot of these symptoms being some cumulative side affects of these meds and interactions between them.  I know for a fact that my Wellbutrin interacts badly with Doxipen.  The windows and waves just come when they want there is no rhyme or reason.

 

.Yes we have had a very similar journey and it's been long and arduous one like many others on here as well. 

I do love your statement that we must" cling to hope, that  tomorrow will better day and re assure ourselves we can handle anything".   I have a similar saying, "never give up on hope, because the miracle may happen tomorrow." 

 

.Yes we have had a very similar journey and it's been long and arduous one like many otherson  here as well. 

Grace you have a wonderful positive attitude about the journey and about life.  You say you have not seen the "other side" in a long time, but I know in my heart you will get there for certain.  You deserve it and it will happen for you.

 

I am feeling a bit better today, I am grateful for that, and hope it will continue.  I have been doing some meditation and listening to some good positive mindfulness talks on a website called "Dharma Seed", check it out.

Thank you once again for your support,it means a lot to me.

[vetdoc]

vetdoc, a big stressor such as anesthesia and surgery will rock the boat of a vulnerable nervous system. Your boat is still rocking, hopefully not as much as it was before, and it will take time for it to settle.

 

What is your symptom pattern for several hours after you take Wellbutrin?

 

What do you mean by "depressed"? "Depression" is a common side effect of benzos such as Valium.

 

How would you cope if you knew that everything you're experiencing was a side effect of drugs and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with you?

Hi Alto

Thanks for hammering home the fact that my already compromised nervous system went thru a major stressor and it knocked me for a loop.  I sometimes forget just how incredibly sensitive my nervous system has become after years of all my meds assaulting and altering the neurotransmitter pathways of my brain. I can' even take a supplement without feeling some effect.

 

I have been keeping a good journal of my symptom pattern lately.  It appears I am very groggy , minimal energy and brain fog upon awakening.  Then take wellbutrin and lamictal.  After several hours fell slightly activated, but energy level improved, still some braon fog, but less then awakening.

 

There is no doubt now that the Doxipen is is causing my grogginess, lack of energy and brain fog, confusion  upon awakening. It is a cental nervous system depressant.   It may also be causing that down feeling like the depression I mentioned..  I am taking 6 mg of the sleep aid called silenor.  It is a modified delivery system of Doxipen, specifically designed for sleep.

The package insert actually states people over 65 should take 3mg, not 6mg. 

 

The other player in all this is Wellbutrin -Doxipen interaction.  It appears Wellbutrin is a Strong inhibitor of the CYP 2d6 enzyme responsible for Doxiben metabolism. 

The research I did said that Wellbutrin  can increase the level of Doxipen by 5 x as a strong inhibitor of Cyp2d6.  So all these years there probably  has been a cumulative affect on my nervous system fom Doxipen.  What may have saved me from getting really toxic on the Doxipen is my taper of Wellbutrin allowing less inhibitory affect on the Doxipen and better metabolism of Doxipen.

 

What do you think of me holding my Wellbutrin taper and start a10% a month taper of Doxipen at this point.  I would like to get off the Doxipen and see if I am better in the morning upon awakening and less tired  throughout the day.  Since I ake the Doxipen at bedtime and then the Wellbutrin in the morning the some level of Doxipen may stay in my system all day long.??

 

I also may move my 2mg valium back and take it at 10:00 PM instead of at bedtime, in case it intensifies the grogginess in the morning.

Let me  know what you think about all this.

 

The answer to your question would I feel better knowing if all these symptoms where the result of side effects of the meds rather then some intrinsic disease is a resounding YES

Thanks Alto