compsports: Introduction

[compsports]

Hi Folks,

 

I wanted to thank Surviving for starting this forum.

 

Like many people, I ended up on the psychiatric treadmill for problems that really had nothing to do with mental illness. My "fun" started in 1995.

 

By 2006, even though I was greatly spellbound by these drugs in many ways, a part of my brain realized something was greatly wrong. I had been diagnosed with a hearing loss the previous year that I am convinced was partially due to the Remeron I was taking. I also felt like my learning disability issues were greatly worsening. As an FYI, I had been diagnosed with LD before going on psych meds and based on everything I knew about my history, I felt it was legitimate. Whether getting a diagnosis was helpful is a whole other post.

 

Anyway, once I left a stressful job, I made the decision to go for it and started tapering off of a psych med cocktail of Remeron, Adderall, Doxepin, and Wellbutrin Xl. I finished my taper last year in June 2010. With the exception of Wellbutrin XL, which I pretty much cold turkeyed, everything else was tapered very slowly.

 

My biggest problem currently is the issue of sleep. I do realize I am lucky compared to other people but I still feel it is causing alot of cognitive difficulties. I have a hard staying awake until even 9pm and then I sleep until 2am at the most. During the day, I have a hard time with focus and concentration.

 

I do take a multivitamin, D, and fish oil but it doesn't really do anything.

 

Because I have read it is important to have a darkened room, I plan to order blackout shades for my bedroom to see if that helps.

 

I am also trying the paleo diet for 30 days and hope that will lead to some improvements that would help with sleep.

 

Melatonin has been mentioned as being helpful but I am reluctant to try it because in the past, it caused suicidal depression.

 

I look forward to corresponding with everything.

 

Compsports

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, Compsports.

 

May I ask, what does your screenname mean?

 

For what it's worth, I found those blackout shades helped a lot. I've even ordered blackout curtains to put over them to keep it dark as long as possible in the morning.

[Hopeful]

Hi Comp,

 

Sorry you are going through this…while I didn’t have the sleep issues that many have had I did use room darkening curtains for the horrible waking anxiety that I did have. It took a few weeks, but it did help significantly. I also feel that Acupuncture has helped. It has been around for such a long time there must be something to it. You sound like you are doing fairly well considering you aren’t at a year yet. The best thing you can do is try and not stress over the issues because they will eventually even themselves out.

[Healing]

Howdy, Compsports!

 

Do you enjoy competitive sports? Do you study Comparative Sports? Do you provide complimentary tickets to sports?

 

I know you've already tried a million things re: sleep, so forgive me if I'm re-treading old ground, but, what about surrendering to your current w/d-induced odd biorhythm, and going to sleep in the early evening whenever you want to, and seeing if you still sleep until 2 am? That way, you might get 6-7 hours of sleep a day, which might just make the crucial difference in getting through the day. I think you work full time?

 

My thinking is that your biorythms will eventually self-correct, but that it may be an uphill battle to correct them now, and this might be a workable temporary solution. What do you think?

[compsports]

Good to hear from you, Compsports.

 

May I ask, what does your screenname mean?

 

For what it's worth, I found those blackout shades helped a lot. I've even ordered blackout curtains to put over them to keep it dark as long as possible in the morning.

 

Hi Surviving,

 

My screen name is a combination of my interest in computers and sports. It is also a good screen name because I have never had a problem with duplication.

 

I am glad the blackout shades helped you.

 

Compsports

 

Hi Comp,

 

Sorry you are going through this…while I didn’t have the sleep issues that many have had I did use room darkening curtains for the horrible waking anxiety that I did have. It took a few weeks, but it did help significantly. I also feel that Acupuncture has helped. It has been around for such a long time there must be something to it. You sound like you are doing fairly well considering you aren’t at a year yet. The best thing you can do is try and not stress over the issues because they will eventually even themselves out.

 

Thanks Hopeful, I am trying not to stress.

 

I am glad the acupuncture and the room darkening curtains have helped.

 

CS

[compsports]

Howdy, Compsports!

 

Do you enjoy competitive sports? Do you study Comparative Sports? Do you provide complimentary tickets to sports?

 

I know you've already tried a million things re: sleep, so forgive me if I'm re-treading old ground, but, what about surrendering to your current w/d-induced odd biorhythm, and going to sleep in the early evening whenever you want to, and seeing if you still sleep until 2 am? That way, you might get 6-7 hours of sleep a day, which might just make the crucial difference in getting through the day. I think you work full time?

 

My thinking is that your biorythms will eventually self-correct, but that it may be an uphill battle to correct them now, and this might be a workable temporary solution. What do you think?

 

Hi Healing,

 

Nah, I have no complementary tickets to provide:) I am a spectator. Not good enough to play competitive sports:)

 

I am pretty much going to bed at 8:30pm and sleeping until 2am. Now that I have done this 4 days in a row, I feel better.

 

The problem I am having is staying awake after eating dinner. And it doesn't matter what I eat as I can barely stay awake afterwords. That will mess up my sleep.

 

Comp Sports

[Healing]

Hi Healing,

 

Nah, I have no complementary tickets to provide:) I am a spectator. Not good enough to play competitive sports:)

 

I am pretty much going to bed at 8:30pm and sleeping until 2am. Now that I have done this 4 days in a row, I feel better.

 

The problem I am having is staying awake after eating dinner. And it doesn't matter what I eat as I can barely stay awake afterwords. That will mess up my sleep.

 

Comp Sports

 

What happens if you just let yourself go to sleep right after dinner? What time is that? Do you still sleep until 2 am?

[Neuroplastic]

The problem I am having is staying awake after eating dinner. And it doesn't matter what I eat as I can barely stay awake afterwords. That will mess up my sleep.

Hey, Compsports! If I may ask, are you experiencing akathisia/agitation, or still some other symptoms after eating? In my case it would be both, plus the sometimes still intense "fight or flight" response.

[compsports]

What happens if you just let yourself go to sleep right after dinner? What time is that? Do you still sleep until 2 am?

 

Hi Healing,

 

Yesterday, I think I fell asleep around 6pm at the computer and woke up at 7pm. It totally messed up my sleep as the quality was lousy.

 

I haven't tried turning out the lights and literally going to bed after dinner

 

I think if I stay home, I am going to have to watch TV standing up so I stay awake.

 

In case you're wondering why I don't eat dinner later, I am starving and eating a light snack will not avoid the feelings of wanting to fall asleep.

 

CS

 

Hey, Compsports! If I may ask, are you experiencing akathisia/agitation, or still some other symptoms after eating? In my case it would be both, plus the sometimes still intense "fight or flight" response.

 

Hi Neuoplastic,

 

Fortunately no.

 

I am sorry that is an issue for you.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

cs, I think maybe we need to look up stuff about circadian rhythm for you.

[Healing]

Hi Healing,

 

Yesterday, I think I fell asleep around 6pm at the computer and woke up at 7pm. It totally messed up my sleep as the quality was lousy.

 

I haven't tried turning out the lights and literally going to bed after dinner

 

I think if I stay home, I am going to have to watch TV standing up so I stay awake.

 

In case you're wondering why I don't eat dinner later, I am starving and eating a light snack will not avoid the feelings of wanting to fall asleep.

 

CS

This is something I've been wondering about for a long time about you. Why not give it a try and really go to bed, teeth brushed, etc., right after dinner? I know it's not a great quality of life for the long run, but I'm really thinking your circadian rhythms will self-correct and that you can't fight city hall.

 

Anyway, it might be worth trying for a week, as an experiment. Even if it doesn't work, the experiment might provide new, useful information for you.

 

The other thought I have is using one of those dawning light alarm clock. They're supposed to help reset your circadian rhythm. Also, maybe using a light box at the right time of day. Also, I've read that light on the back of your knees can reset your circadian rhythm when you have jet lag. So, this is another area of possibility for you.

[compsports]

This is something I've been wondering about for a long time about you. Why not give it a try and really go to bed, teeth brushed, etc., right after dinner? I know it's not a great quality of life for the long run, but I'm really thinking your circadian rhythms will self-correct and that you can't fight city hall.

 

Anyway, it might be worth trying for a week, as an experiment. Even if it doesn't work, the experiment might provide new, useful information for you.

 

The other thought I have is using one of those dawning light alarm clock. They're supposed to help reset your circadian rhythm. Also, maybe using a light box at the right time of day. Also, I've read that light on the back of your knees can reset your circadian rhythm when you have jet lag. So, this is another area of possibility for you.

 

Hi Healing,

 

I will doing what you suggest tomorrow night as I feel more comfortable trying this on the weekend.

 

The other items you suggested are great also and I will look into those.

 

Thanks!

 

Comp Sports

[compsports]

cs, I think maybe we need to look up stuff about circadian rhythm for you.

 

Hi Surviving,

 

You read my mind as I feel like what I am experiencing is Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome. See this link as this describes my situation perfectly, http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=28.

 

In doing more research, it seems that light therapy would be a great solution. But my concern is that this would increase my risk for Advanced Macular Degeneration since my mother had this when she was alive.

 

I could take supplements that protect the eyes against this type of damage but it would still be a concern.

 

The other thought I had was if I took melatonin when waking up earlier in the morning, maybe that would help get me back to sleep and as a result, by sleeping more hours in the morning, I wouldn't get so tired in the late afternoon and then start the vicious cycle of trying to stay awake until at least 8pm. In other words, that would start the path to resetting my sleep cycle to a more normal pattern.

 

Obviously, I don't need melatonin before I fall asleep as I am not having trouble doing that. I am just doing it at the wrong time.

 

As an FYI, for various reasons, I need to solve this problem now. I don't have the luxury of waiting for things to become normal.

 

CS

[compsports]

""The other thought I have is using one of those dawning light alarm clock. They're supposed to help reset your circadian rhythm. Also, maybe using a light box at the right time of day. Also, I've read that light on the back of your knees can reset your circadian rhythm when you have jet lag. So, this is another area of possibility for you.""

 

Hi Healing,

 

Dang, this never registered in my brain when I previously read your post. See my response to Surviving as I have come to agree with you about light therapy being an option.

 

Regarding the other suggestion, when I fall asleep like after eating, I only stay asleep for about an hour or two which then messes up my sleep cycle. I will eventually get back to sleep but it isn't good quality.

 

In order to get what I call functional sleep,I have to stay awake until 8pm and then I sleep 5 hours which is enough. But staying awake until 8pm has become quite a challenge.

 

CS

[Rhiannon]

""The other thought I have is using one of those dawning light alarm clock. They're supposed to help reset your circadian rhythm. Also, maybe using a light box at the right time of day. Also, I've read that light on the back of your knees can reset your circadian rhythm when you have jet lag. So, this is another area of possibility for you.""

 

Hi Healing,

 

Dang, this never registered in my brain when I previously read your post. See my response to Surviving as I have come to agree with you about light therapy being an option.

 

Regarding the other suggestion, when I fall asleep like after eating, I only stay asleep for about an hour or two which then messes up my sleep cycle. I will eventually get back to sleep but it isn't good quality.

 

In order to get what I call functional sleep,I have to stay awake until 8pm and then I sleep 5 hours which is enough. But staying awake until 8pm has become quite a challenge.

 

CS

 

I use a light box for various things involving resetting my circadian rhythm--plus it has a potent antidepressant effect for me. I will be curious to hear how/if this works for you. You could eat your dinner under the light maybe...?

[compsports]

I use a light box for various things involving resetting my circadian rhythm--plus it has a potent antidepressant effect for me. I will be curious to hear how/if this works for you. You could eat your dinner under the light maybe...?

 

Hi Rhi,

 

Thanks for letting me know it works for you.

 

I think I am going to try the melatonin route first. But I will keep you posted. Eating dinner under the light actually is a great idea because during my research, it suggested using the light box late in the afternoon to reset my clock. So that would work.

 

CS

[stan]

As an FYI, for various reasons, I need to solve this problem now. I don't have the luxury of waiting for things to become normal.

CS

 

about sleep, i would continue to let the brain try to improve alone without adding anything and wait 2 years off, and after reconsidering the state

[Healing]

In doing more research, it seems that light therapy would be a great solution. But my concern is that this would increase my risk for Advanced Macular Degeneration since my mother had this when she was alive.

 

I could take supplements that protect the eyes against this type of damage but it would still be a concern.

 

Is this what the research suggests, CS? That the light box increases your risk for Macular Degeneration? Or is this a fear you have?

[compsports]

about sleep, i would continue to let the brain try to improve alone without adding anything and wait 2 years off, and after reconsidering the state

 

Hi Stan,

 

Thanks for your response but unfortunately, I simply can't wait another year without at least trying to do something. I am just not in that position.

 

Since I am not taking any medication, I feel more confident that trying a minuscule amount of melatonin if necessary won't cause problems. But if it does, I can quickly discontinue it and move on to light therapy.

[compsports]

Is this what the research suggests, CS? That the light box increases your risk for Macular Degeneration? Or is this a fear you have?

 

Thanks Healing, let me clarify.

 

The research, while admittedly not solid, suggests that if you have a family history of AMD, which I have, that the risk is slightly elevated for advanced macular degeneration. This risk seems to be the highest for blue light therapy.

 

But if you choose white light therapy, it is important to chose the product carefully because many of them have some ratio of blue light therapy.

 

So to answer your question, it is a combination of both. While I don't feel I can make the claim that the research is solid in this area, there is enough information out there that gives me pause for concern because of what I feel is a legitimate risk factor. Yeah, the chances are probably small but I don't think you can be too careful when we're talking about the issue of retinal damage.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

cs, it looks to me like that info at SleepEducation.com might be something you could try.

 

I've heard of someone who tried the bright light therapy but found it too stimulating. (She did not have advanced sleep phase disorder, she had the absolute withdrawal insomnia.) It might be just right for you.

 

And blocking out the morning light would reinforce the action of the melatonin. You might not even need the melatonin.

[compsports]

cs, it looks to me like that info at SleepEducation.com might be something you could try.

 

I've heard of someone who tried the bright light therapy but found it too stimulating. (She did not have advanced sleep phase disorder, she had the absolute withdrawal insomnia.) It might be just right for you.

 

And blocking out the morning light would reinforce the action of the melatonin. You might not even need the melatonin.

 

Thanks Sur.

 

If I do purchase a light box, I will make sure I buy one with a good money back guarantee.

 

Gotta get the room blackened out, I know:)

 

CS

[Healing]

Oh, I'd be super-cautious about my vision, too.

 

I know this is getting kind of over-involved, but I just happened to learn of these sunglasses that people with severe light sensitivity use --

 

http://www.noir-medical.com/styles/filter_technology.html

 

They mention blocking out the blue light. Anyway, it's just more info for you.

 

But, it sounds like you have several good options to try now for helping your sleep.

 

Keep us informed!

[compsports]

Oh, I'd be super-cautious about my vision, too.

 

I know this is getting kind of over-involved, but I just happened to learn of these sunglasses that people with severe light sensitivity use --

 

http://www.noir-medical.com/styles/filter_technology.html

 

They mention blocking out the blue light. Anyway, it's just more info for you.

 

But, it sounds like you have several good options to try now for helping your sleep.

 

Keep us informed!

 

Thanks Healing for the link.

 

After doing more research, I have decided that it is safer to go with pure white light therapy lamps. I am sensing there is still a very small risk of developing eye problems but it is alot less than if I purchased a blue light therapy lamp.

 

Regarding protecting against eye damage, the National Institute of Health, has a citation that supports the use of curcumin, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810836/. I had purchased it for other reasons and was going to buy something else for protection before I realized it might provide what I needed.

 

The good news is my supplement sensitive body is tolerating it very well.

 

I found a local vendor that sells therapy light boxes so I am going to start with them. They seem quite reputable but of course I will have to make sure of that.

 

I will keep you all posted and again, I appreciate your response and everyone elses.

 

CS

[Hopeful]

Hi CS,

 

I know you are interested in the white light, but though I would post my experience here with the blue light in case anyone else was interested.

 

I’ve had pretty good results with the Phillips Go-lite…I purchased mine in 2004 at Costco (when I thought all I would need to “fix” w/d was a little light lol), but the instructions referenced the web page so you can take their test to tell you when to use the light. I tend to be a “night owl” which I was prior to ssris and am once again. It does seem to work for me getting my circadian rhythms on track. I haven’t used it for awhile though. I was warned by a doctor that they can cause mania…I never had that problem with it.

 

Here is the link in case anyone would like to try the test:

 

http://www.usa.philips.com/c/light-therapy/11625/cat/en/#/cp_tab1

[compsports]

Hi CS,

 

I know you are interested in the white light, but though I would post my experience here with the blue light in case anyone else was interested.

 

I’ve had pretty good results with the Phillips Go-lite…I purchased mine in 2004 at Costco (when I thought all I would need to “fix” w/d was a little light lol), but the instructions referenced the web page so you can take their test to tell you when to use the light. I tend to be a “night owl” which I was prior to ssris and am once again. It does seem to work for me getting my circadian rhythms on track. I haven’t used it for awhile though. I was warned by a doctor that they can cause mania…I never had that problem with it.

 

Here is the link in case anyone would like to try the test:

 

http://www.usa.philips.com/c/light-therapy/11625/cat/en/#/cp_tab1

 

Hi Hopeful,

 

Wow, that is the site I started at and took that very test.

 

And the Philips Go-Lite was my first choice before I became concerned about blue therapy lights being riskier.

 

I am glad it helped you.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

CS

[compsports]

Well, I had dinner with someone who expressed extreme skepticism about the light treatment. She wondered if it was snake oil:)

 

Seriously, it is a good thing. I know from personal experience when I am desperate, I may make a decision too quickly even though I think I have thought through everything.

 

Interestingly, this was the first day I had had in days where I didn't get tired in the late afternoon or after dinner even though I had been up since 1am the previous day. I couldn't figure it out except to wonder if I had taken too much fish oil in the afternoon even though I only took one dose. I had also had taken coconut oil but it didn't seem like that should cause activation. Who knows?

 

Anyway, I would have bet the house that I was going to be up all night because I felt wired as heck. Well, after eating a slice of bread and taking two Women's Anti Stress Formula which consist of milk protein, I had what I feel is one of my best nights of sleep in weeks. I still woke up early but if I can get this type of sleep every night, I will be quite happy.

 

It is interesting how things can evolve.

 

To be continued!

 

CS

[Altostrata]

...I was warned by a doctor that they can cause mania...

 

The effectiveness of light therapy varies from individual to individual. If it's not what your nervous system needs, it can be overstimulating.

 

Well, I had dinner with someone who expressed extreme skepticism about the light treatment. She wondered if it was snake oil:)...

 

No, the light treatment works, but only if it's what your nervous system needs.

 

Good to hear you had a good night. Maybe the change of seasons brought you enough sunlight during the day to reset your circadian clock?

[compsports]

""No, the light treatment works, but only if it's what your nervous system needs.

 

Good to hear you had a good night. Maybe the change of seasons brought you enough sunlight during the day to reset your circadian clock?""

 

Thanks Sur.

 

Unfortunately, I spoke too soon as I have been having the same issues after that one day.

 

I am hesitating because of the cost. I think I will try a few other things first.

 

CS

[alexjuice]

CS,

 

I support your caution about protecting against potential vision problems, even if the true risk is reasonably small or uncertain. I have been through two 'events' where I temporarily lost a good % of my vision and these have been profoundly upsetting.

 

I've dealt with enough, I have enough on my plate... I want my eyes. I'm going to be hypercautious. I would do as you are doing.

 

Alex.I

 

ps - I recovered my vision on both occasions but have noticeable leftover effects on my eyes, particularly the left. It is easily triggered to bloodshot and is always at least somewhat reddish if not always so. This caused a hugely stressing incident when I was pulled over by the police after 11pm for failing to signal a lane change. I was detained and interrogated by multiple officers who suspected that I was under the influence. The messed up eye(s) really exacerbated this situation. This ordeal with the cops upset me greatly, stress! So... not to derail this, but vision is deserving of hypercaution.

[compsports]

CS,

 

I support your caution about protecting against potential vision problems, even if the true risk is reasonably small or uncertain. I have been through two 'events' where I temporarily lost a good % of my vision and these have been profoundly upsetting.

 

I've dealt with enough, I have enough on my plate... I want my eyes. I'm going to be hypercautious. I would do as you are doing.

 

Alex.I

 

ps - I recovered my vision on both occasions but have noticeable leftover effects on my eyes, particularly the left. It is easily triggered to bloodshot and is always at least somewhat reddish if not always so. This caused a hugely stressing incident when I was pulled over by the police after 11pm for failing to signal a lane change. I was detained and interrogated by multiple officers who suspected that I was under the influence. The messed up eye(s) really exacerbated this situation. This ordeal with the cops upset me greatly, stress! So... not to derail this, but vision is deserving of hypercaution.

 

Hi Alex,

 

I am so sorry to hear about your eyes and thanks for your support.

 

Wow, cops detaining you after a minor traffic violation thinking you were drunk. I won't repeat my thoughts on that but I can imagine how upsetting that must have been.

 

Fortunately, I have had 3 nights of good sleep in a row even though I am still getting tired early and waking up early. But on Sunday, when I forced myself to eat dinner later, I was able to stay up a little later.

 

Yesterday, was just a tough day as the issues of unemployment were getting to me. As a result, I ate too early as it was too hard emotionally to maintain my disciplined eating schedule.

 

The fact I still got good sleep was encouraging in spite of the tough day.

 

CS

[Neuroplastic]

Alex, so sorry to read about this incident with the police. The stress must have been real bad, but quite soon you will feel better. You just need to wait it out. Take care!

[Healing]

But on Sunday, when I forced myself to eat dinner later, I was able to stay up a little later.

 

Oh, jeez. I totally missed this aspect of the situation! When you eat, you fall asleep. This is something I have definitely heard of a lot, especially very early on post-taper. Then, it fades away.

 

OK, so if you're starving, but trying to stay awake, have you tried stuff like eating 5 almonds every 15 minutes? You know, just enough to keep your blood sugar OK-ish while not eating very much?

[compsports]

 

But on Sunday, when I forced myself to eat dinner later, I was able to stay up a little later.

 

Oh, jeez. I totally missed this aspect of the situation! When you eat, you fall asleep. This is something I have definitely heard of a lot, especially very early on post-taper. Then, it fades away.

 

OK, so if you're starving, but trying to stay awake, have you tried stuff like eating 5 almonds every 15 minutes? You know, just enough to keep your blood sugar OK-ish while not eating very much?

 

Hi Healing,

 

Unfortunately, I eat so many almonds during the day as snacks that I am about almonded out:) by late evening. I eat them because they do a better job of satiating hunger vs. eating something low cal like fruit.

 

Anyway, the problem changed yesterday. I did a good job of staying awake but I think due to taking too much fish oil, I only slept two hours.

 

Very discouraged as I felt so much better with the increase.

 

Thanks for responding. I really appreciate it.

 

CS

[Healing]

You're figuring it out, CS. I know you'll get there.

 

Have you considered investing in the almond industry, since you're supporting it single-handedly?

 

It doesn't have to be almonds. The experiment I'm wondering about is what would happen with your sleep pattern if you delayed dinner. And the way to do that healthily is to eat a little snack of some sort.

[compsports]

You're figuring it out, CS. I know you'll get there.

 

Have you considered investing in the almond industry, since you're supporting it single-handedly?

 

It doesn't have to be almonds. The experiment I'm wondering about is what would happen with your sleep pattern if you delayed dinner. And the way to do that healthily is to eat a little snack of some sort.

 

Thanks for the leap of faith Healing:)

 

And just when I figure it out, I will be traveling across one or two time zones that will mess up everything:)

 

Actually, I need to invest in the macadamia nut industry since the omega 3 to 6 ratio is better:) Unfortunately, they cost alot more than almonds.

 

I did try eating fruit last week but that made me fall asleep. Peanut butter worked a few days ago so maybe if I lower the fish oil, this could work.

 

Thanks again Healing.

 

CS