compsports: Introduction

[Altostrata]

How did the paleo diet go? Did you do the raw meat part?

[Healing]

Gosh, even fruit made you fall asleep. NP was just writing about high- and low-glycemic fruit over in "Symptoms." Maybe low-glycemic would work better for you.

 

What a deal, CS! You're doing great, and we're intrigued with trying to figure out the puzzle with you!

[compsports]

How did the paleo diet go? Did you do the raw meat part?

 

You would have to ask, wouldn't you:)

 

I couldn't stick with it.

 

Nah, I would never do the raw meat part.

 

I am still trying to experiment as to what works.

 

CS

[compsports]

Gosh, even fruit made you fall asleep. NP was just writing about high- and low-glycemic fruit over in "Symptoms." Maybe low-glycemic would work better for you.

 

What a deal, CS! You're doing great, and we're intrigued with trying to figure out the puzzle with you!

 

Keep going as you will be qualified to work with House and his mysterious cases:)

 

All jokes aside, I greatly appreciate your help and I will check NPs post.

 

CS

[Healing]

People will be hiring the SA team to solve their most puzzling withdrawal problems!

 

"We have the experience. We have the determination." << Our slogan for when we hire ourselves out.

[compsports]

I am feeling extremely discouraged about my insomnia problem and really need some support. I haven't felt this low in quite awhile.

 

Last night, when I could feel myself falling asleep after dinner, I literally stood and watched TV to prevent my falling asleep prematurely. In the past, as long as I held out until 8pm, this worked fine. I would sleep about 5 to 6 hours and feel great even though I woke up early in the morning.

 

Even though last night, I went to bed at 8pm and woke up at 2am, I feel horrible as my sleep quality was terrible. What the bleep is going on?

 

Did going out of town and dealing with a time zone change mess up my sleep cycle? When I was away, I slept every other night which of course, didn't help matters. Now, that I am home, the bleeping pattern is continuing.

 

Anyway, I had previously talked about getting light therapy but I am saving this as the last option for various reasons. I am going to order the glasses from Amazon that Doctor Phelps recommended and order the dark shades for my bedroom.

 

But I am very scared for my future. My cognitive functioning has greatly worsened which is not a good thing when you are unemployed like I am.

 

Anyway, I am about as low as I have been in months about this problem.

 

CS

[summer]

I have sleep issues also, and have tried all the things discussed here. I even got a new bed a few weeks ago. My old bed was only two years old, but I realized it was sinking in the middle which was ridiculous for a two year old bed. I called Macy's and they agreed the mattress was defective and told me to pick out another one - which I did, along with a different pillow. The difference is huge... but, it hasn't eliminated the sleep issues I've had for years.

 

Falling asleep is a prob for me and then I wake at least every two hours to go to the bathroom. So, in the morning, I'm exhausted and can't get out of bed. I don't use a blackout shade, b/c then I'd never get out of bed! When I haven't slept well, or the days I wake with a headache, my functioning capabilities aren't good and I worrying about driving.

 

All that said, I have no idea what the answer is... the otc stuff doesn't work and I don't want to take it anyway. I do take .5 xanax, but sometimes it doesn't really help.

 

If we could allow our bodies to fall asleep when we wanted, and wake when we wanted, it would solve much of the problem. But, most of us have responsibilities during the day... Brandy's "clock" is set for day time sleeping, and she is up all nite... which seems to work for her. Wouldn't work for me tho. I don't like being up at nite, and I need to be alert and functioning during the day. Still on the look out for that magic "pill"... let me know if you come up with anything that works for you... I'll do the same.

[compsports]

I have sleep issues also, and have tried all the things discussed here. I even got a new bed a few weeks ago. My old bed was only two years old, but I realized it was sinking in the middle which was ridiculous for a two year old bed. I called Macy's and they agreed the mattress was defective and told me to pick out another one - which I did, along with a different pillow. The difference is huge... but, it hasn't eliminated the sleep issues I've had for years.

 

Falling asleep is a prob for me and then I wake at least every two hours to go to the bathroom. So, in the morning, I'm exhausted and can't get out of bed. I don't use a blackout shade, b/c then I'd never get out of bed! When I haven't slept well, or the days I wake with a headache, my functioning capabilities aren't good and I worrying about driving.

 

All that said, I have no idea what the answer is... the otc stuff doesn't work and I don't want to take it anyway. I do take .5 xanax, but sometimes it doesn't really help.

 

If we could allow our bodies to fall asleep when we wanted, and wake when we wanted, it would solve much of the problem. But, most of us have responsibilities during the day... Brandy's "clock" is set for day time sleeping, and she is up all nite... which seems to work for her. Wouldn't work for me tho. I don't like being up at nite, and I need to be alert and functioning during the day. Still on the look out for that magic "pill"... let me know if you come up with anything that works for you... I'll do the same.

 

I am sorry you are also experiencing problems Summer.

 

If I get enough sleep tonight, I am going to purchase a blackout shade at Home Depot tomorrow that looks easy to install.

 

Hopefully, as my body gets used to east coast time again, things will improve.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

....I feel like what I am experiencing is Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome. See this link as this describes my situation perfectly, http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=28.

 

In doing more research, it seems that light therapy would be a great solution....

 

cs, this suggests what you need is more light at certain times -- you need more stimulation during waking hours. The amber shades block out light, they're for people who have a different problem.

 

According to http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=28 , you may have an "earlier release of melatonin and other hormones" and not have them when you need them, later at bedtime.

 

The article also says:

 

"...people with ASP should not make plans to do things late at night. They also should not work the late afternoon or evening shifts. They should not use caffeine or stimulants in the evening. This will only worsen their sleep. Waking up early should be seen as something positive. Much can be done during the time when others are asleep. They should not use alcohol or drugs to stay asleep during early-morning hours.

 

Other treatment options include the following:

 

- Advancing the bedtime slowly over time

- Using bright light therapy during the early evening

- Taking melatonin in the morning

 

...."

 

I'm not sure what "Taking melatonin in the morning" means. Surely this doesn't mean taking it at sunrise. Maybe it means taking it at 2 a.m.

 

Anyway, the amber shades are for people who need LESS stimulation during daylight and from their computers. It sounds to me like it's the opposite of the bright light therapy suggested for ASP.

 

Also, melatonin is triggered by darkness. That is what those blackout shades, etc. are for. If you find yourself waking at 4 a.m., it may be the early morning light just starting to come up. The blackout shades etc. can help you sleep a little longer in the early morning.

 

If I were you, I would try a combination: Bright light therapy at the same time every day in the early evening to forestall the premature release of melatonin; take a little melatonin at 8 p.m. and close the blackout shades to make it as dark as possible to get the melatonin trigger going; take a little melatonin at 2 a.m. if waking.

[compsports]

 

....I feel like what I am experiencing is Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome. See this link as this describes my situation perfectly, http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=28.

 

In doing more research, it seems that light therapy would be a great solution....

 

cs, this suggests what you need is more light at certain times -- you need more stimulation during waking hours. The amber shades block out light, they're for people who have a different problem.

 

According to http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=28 , you may have an "earlier release of melatonin and other hormones" and not have them when you need them, later at bedtime.

 

The article also says:

 

"...people with ASP should not make plans to do things late at night. They also should not work the late afternoon or evening shifts. They should not use caffeine or stimulants in the evening. This will only worsen their sleep. Waking up early should be seen as something positive. Much can be done during the time when others are asleep. They should not use alcohol or drugs to stay asleep during early-morning hours.

 

Other treatment options include the following:

 

- Advancing the bedtime slowly over time

- Using bright light therapy during the early evening

- Taking melatonin in the morning

 

...."

 

I'm not sure what "Taking melatonin in the morning" means. Surely this doesn't mean taking it at sunrise. Maybe it means taking it at 2 a.m.

 

Anyway, the amber shades are for people who need LESS stimulation during daylight and from their computers. It sounds to me like it's the opposite of the bright light therapy suggested for ASP.

 

Also, melatonin is triggered by darkness. That is what those blackout shades, etc. are for. If you find yourself waking at 4 a.m., it may be the early morning light just starting to come up. The blackout shades etc. can help you sleep a little longer in the early morning.

 

If I were you, I would try a combination: Bright light therapy at the same time every day in the early evening to forestall the premature release of melatonin; take a little melatonin at 8 p.m. and close the blackout shades to make it as dark as possible to get the melatonin trigger going; take a little melatonin at 2 a.m. if waking.

 

Hi Surviving,

 

I am totally confused which may be due to my lack of sleep.

 

The problem is I fell sleep last night at 8pm and woke up at 2am. But the quality was horrible. This was in spite of staying awake until 8pm and not falling asleep prematurely.

 

I am wondering if falling sleep when it was light messed up my sleep cycle. That is why I was wondering if the dark shades would work. Even at 2am, light is coming in because my blinds don't cover the whole window.

 

I am also wondering if caffeine withdrawal is an issue since I drank alot more coffee while out of town than I normally do.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

One way or the other, putting in blackout shades, etc. couldn't hurt!

 

Your sleep may have been affected by your trip. or a change in time zone. Caffeine can have a very long half-life, too.

[stan]

Brandy's "clock" is set for day time sleeping, and she is up all nite... which seems to work for her. Wouldn't work for me tho. I don't like being up at nite, and I need to be alert and functioning during the day. Still on the look out for that magic "pill"... let me know if you come up with anything that works for you... I'll do the same.

 

with my nocturia (appeared since i was off one year)) Brandy's method worked for me, and recently i see i go sleep 1 am and woke 7/8 am

i slepp only 5/6 hours per night with my nocturia but it seems working,

but i know if i had to work, i could not do this

[Neuroplastic]

Hey, Cs. So sorry about this insomnia. Battling with it myself, so feeling your frustration. Try applying some of the advice in this thread from the folks. Forgive me my being banal here, but as much as it's all so painful, it will eventually greatly improve. Just a little bit more.

[compsports]

Well, after reading about study of 15 people in which cherry juice had the effect of moderate improvement on insomnia, I decided I had nothing to lose by trying it. For those of you who don't know, cherries have alot of melatonin.

 

I have been unable to take regular melatonin as it caused depression.

 

So last night, I consumed it prior to going to bed. Unfortunately, I fell asleep prematurely but simply kept eating something and drinking more juice. Fortunately, I don't have weight issues so I can do this.

 

In the past, falling asleep too early was a recipe for disaster regarding sleep.

 

But this time, I still fell asleep around 8:30pm. When I woke up at 12:30am, I thought perhaps this solution was going to be a failure. But I simply drank more juice and went on the computer for about 5 to 10 minutes. When I felt myself getting sleepy, I went back to bed and didn't wake up until 4:30am.

 

I haven't slept 8 hours in months and furthermore, this is my 2nd day in a row of sleeping so that makes this even more significant.

 

Obviously, I am ecstatic and amazed at the same time, that such a simple solution might be what does the trick. Just so folks know, I purchased regular cherry juice at Whole Foods for around $6.00.

 

Thank you all for your support and hopefully, I can continue to post some good reports.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

This is great, cs.

 

By the way, the melatonin in cherry juice is negligible -- it's a myth promulgated by the cherry industry.

 

However, cherry juice does contain an analgesic (something like aspirin) and the sugar in it may may you sleepy.

 

Whatever works! Very glad to hear your sleep has resumed an improving pattern.

[compsports]

This is great, cs.

 

By the way, the melatonin in cherry juice is negligible -- it's a myth promulgated by the cherry industry.

 

However, cherry juice does contain an analgesic (something like aspirin) and the sugar in it may may you sleepy.

 

Whatever works! Very glad to hear your sleep has resumed an improving pattern.

 

Very interesting about the analgesic.

 

 

CS

[compsports]

Maybe I need the cherry juice again. I was starting to get concerned that drinking too much juice might effect my teeth so I stopped.

 

Anyway, yesterday, I start taking new fish oil capsules which are Omega 3 Joy. They seem very effective and helped me deal with alot of stress. I felt like my organization skills were improved which normally is an area I greatly struggle with. I had this problem prior to meds which has greatly worsened as the result of withdrawal.

 

My only concern was that I was maybe taking too much even though it didn't seem like I was. Do you calculate the total mg of Omega? Because if so, I would have been up to 4mg even though I only took 4 pills. Perhaps that was problematic.

 

Anyway, in spite of being outside alot and getting a tremendous amount of exercise, I had trouble falling asleep and didn't have my usual struggle of staying awake after dinner. But I finally fell asleep at 8:30pm which was the good news. Unfortunately, I woke up at 11:30pm and couldn't get back to sleep.

 

This is the story of my life - I find supplements that give me great functioning but end up causing insomnia. I will try cutting back to 3 to see if that helps.

 

If not, I will have to find a high EPA fish oil that has less total mg of fish oil per pill. That would suck since these are the cheapest I have found. But I need my fish oil.

 

Time to purchase some cherry juice and see if that might help in case I wake up early. I will have to remember to rinse my mouth after drinking it.

 

Sigh!

 

CS

[Altostrata]

cs, it's hard to take a dangerous amount of fish oil. 2,000-4,000mg EPA+DHA a day is supposed to be beneficial.

 

Sorry you may be hypersensitive to it. But maybe give that dosage another try? It's hard to tell from just one time.

[Neuroplastic]

Cs, in most cases it's better to go "a bit less" than to overdo it. It applies to supplements and exercises alike. I'm especially concerned about your "tremendous amount of exercise". We're so fragile already that any overexertion may put our CNS out of whack. I tend to do the same thing. If somebody told me that running a marathon a day would speed up my recovery, I'd probably run... two of those. But we need to take it easy and let the nature take care of it.

[compsports]

cs, it's hard to take a dangerous amount of fish oil. 2,000-4,000mg EPA+DHA a day is supposed to be beneficial.

 

Sorry you may be hypersensitive to it. But maybe give that dosage another try? It's hard to tell from just one time.

 

Thanks Sur. I cut back to 3 tablets so hopefully, that will work.

 

Stay tuned.

 

CS

[compsports]

Cs, in most cases it's better to go "a bit less" than to overdo it. It applies to supplements and exercises alike. I'm especially concerned about your "tremendous amount of exercise". We're so fragile already that any overexerion may put our CNS out of whack. I tend to do the same thing. If somebody told me that running a marathon a day would speed up my recovery, I'd probably run... two of those. But we need to take it easy and let the nature take care of it.

 

Hi NP,

 

Sorry I wasn't clear. The exercise I was referring to was in reference to running to catch public transportation be it bus or subway and going up and down escalators.

 

For me, the short bursts of intensity are really helpful. It is the extensive exercising that I can't enage in.

 

But you're right about being careful in overdoing it.

 

Thanks

 

CS

[compsports]

Well, I found the solution to my problems with insomnia.

 

Drink lots of coffee, including some at 3pm and eat junk food, which I definitely did. Oh and I consumed my 4 fish oil capsules.

 

This resulted in sleeping approximately 7 to 8 hours.

 

The previous night, I got what I call "functional" sleep. Enough to function decently but definitely not good quality sleep. Then add in a situation with alot of stress (can't avoid it unfortunately).

 

Anyway, I had zero expectations of sleeping and knowing that the weekend was coming up, probably helped in having a more relaxed body for sleep.

 

So here is my advice for people who can't sleep. Do the opposite of what the experts tell you to do and see what happens. It worked for me

 

CS

[summer]

Well, I found the solution to my problems with insomnia.

 

Drink lots of coffee, including some at 3pm and eat junk food, which I definitely did. Oh and I consumed my 4 fish oil capsules.

 

This resulted in sleeping approximately 7 to 8 hours.

 

 

I had to read this again to be sure you weren't joking! Strange thing is that I can always go back to sleep after I have coffee in the morning. Still, this doesn't make a bit of sense - caffeine is such a big no-no after 3 in the afternoon. And, I'm guessing you also had chocolate? Amazing... now you have to consume coffee around-the-clock and eat junk in order to sleep... Well, glad you got some well deserved zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[Healing]

CS, are you ADD-ish? The reason I ask is that my bff is ADD-ish and appears to have the opposite constitution to me in some ways. She can drink coffee and go right to sleep, and she occasionally takes Sudafed because it's calming to her and helps her focus!

 

I vaguely remember you mentioning having a positive paradoxical reaction to coffee before. I think? Maybe you really do respond well to things some others (like me) would find over-stimulating.

[stan]

i would'nt resolve sleep problems with coffee, there is maybe a risk of agravation sleep patterns in long term,

we have to be careful, the first months or years it seems working and a day we have more problems,

Coffee acts on CNS nerves

[compsports]

""I had to read this again to be sure you weren't joking! Strange thing is that I can always go back to sleep after I have coffee in the morning. Still, this doesn't make a bit of sense - caffeine is such a big no-no after 3 in the afternoon. And, I'm guessing you also had chocolate? Amazing... now you have to consume coffee around-the-clock and eat junk in order to sleep... Well, glad you got some well deserved zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!""

 

Hi Summer,

 

Actually, I was saying if half jokingly.

 

By the way, when I was very early in the process of tapering the sleep medication, I could get away with a small amount of coffee in the afternoon. But once I got deeper in the process, that no longer was usually happening.

 

Interestingly, like you, I have gone back to sleep in the am after drinking coffee if I don't have any obligations. But I think that is due overall to a chronic sleep deprivation state.

 

Anyway, I drank too much coffee yesterday out of frustration at having brain fog and didn't get away with being able to sleep again.

 

CS

[compsports]

CS, are you ADD-ish? The reason I ask is that my bff is ADD-ish and appears to have the opposite constitution to me in some ways. She can drink coffee and go right to sleep, and she occasionally takes Sudafed because it's calming to her and helps her focus!

 

I vaguely remember you mentioning having a positive paradoxical reaction to coffee before. I think? Maybe you really do respond well to things some others (like me) would find over-stimulating.

 

Yeah, I think in some ways I am ADHDish even though I definitely don't have it.

 

Still, I think being able to sleep in spite of drinking coffee is due to my chronic state of sleep deprivation as this doesn't happen consistently.

 

CS

[compsports]

i would'nt resolve sleep problems with coffee, there is maybe a risk of agravation sleep patterns in long term,

we have to be careful, the first months or years it seems working and a day we have more problems,

Coffee acts on CNS nerves

 

Hi Stan,

 

I was half joking and wasn't totally serious. Still, it is a perfect example of insomnia being a complicated issue and that for everyone, the issues are different.

 

For me, the issue is I can drink a limited amount in the morning but if I drink it after 12pm, I am risking not being able to sleep. Being able to on Friday was a fluke.

 

CS

[summer]

 

Interestingly, like you, I have gone back to sleep in the am after drinking coffee if I don't have any obligations. But I think that is due overall to a chronic sleep deprivation state.

 

 

I agree with you about the sleep deprivation... prob the same reason for me.

[Healing]

CS -- I think your sleep problem is my favorite puzzle. I am determined to figure it out.

[compsports]

CS -- I think your sleep problem is my favorite puzzle. I am determined to figure it out.

 

Well Healing, this will make the puzzle more fun to solve:)

 

Yesterday, I was dragging big time even though I had slept the night before. I had been experimenting with not taking vitamins and I am wondering if that was the reason. Anyway, that is not a good situation when at a temp assignment.

 

So I drink at least 5 to 6 cups of coffee, including a Starbucks late at noon. I thought for sure this was a path to a sleepless night but heck, I am trying to survive at the moment.

 

After getting home from work, I shopped for food which included some cherries I had been craving for days. Ate a bunch of those for dinner plus some peanut butter. Not a balanced meal, I know but that is all I was hungry for.

 

Kept dozing off but not for too long. Then I would eat a few more cherries.

 

Fell asleep finally at my normal time of 8:30pm and had fantastic sleep of 5 hours.

 

Still sleeping crazy hours but heck, I slept when I didn't think that would happen.

 

So far this morning, I seem to have more energy. But I am trying a diet experiment of really trying to listen to what my body is craving. Stay tuned.

 

Obviously, I am not advocating that people drink coffee to solve their insomnia problems. But once again, my situation proves that the issue of insomnia is quite complex and isn't simply a matter of going caffeine free.

 

I have had days where I did everything right (little coffee) and had lousy nights of sleep.

 

To be continued.

 

Comp Sports

[Baxter]

Go for it Compsports! Cherries are good and peanut butter is the staff of life.

[Altostrata]

cs, your highly individual metabolism is endlessly fascinating.

 

I agree, if you want to eat cherries and peanut butter, eat cherries and peanut butter. I believe in our hypersensitive state, if we listen to our bodies, they will tell us what they want.

 

For a while, I was craving Indian food. I gained a lot of weight but my sleep got better. ???!!!

[Baxter]

Oh, I love Indian food! Actually except for some items like Velveeta and canned soup, I can and do love to eat just about everything. Have been limiting myself to only occasional junk food binges, though. Sweets are my most common cravings.

[Healing]

OK, CS -- So, recently, a couple of times you drank a lot of coffee, and then slept well, and once you drank a lot of coffee, and slept poorly. Might be good to keep a little record of coffee v. sleep.

 

Also, sounds good to try the eat-what-you-crave diet in w/d. I know of other w/d'ers who have had success with that, ranging from avocado cravings to junk food cravings.

 

I await more data!

 

And sending you sleep-enhancing intention!

[compsports]

Thanks everybody.

 

Yesterday, my energy didn't last for too long as I seemed to get really tired after eating so of course, I would drink caffeine, which included a diet pepsi in the afternoon.

 

Last night, I slept decently but not as great.

 

I think what I am saying is obviously, drinking too much caffeine is not a good thing. Also, I am thinking it is causing havoc with my blood sugar and possibly contributing to the fatigue.

 

But at the same time, I don't feel that that all cases of insomnia are a matter of completely cutting out caffeine. Personally, I would be happy if I could limit mine to a very small amount in the morning which is another post.

 

CS