Moderator Emeritus KarenB Posted January 5, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 5, 2016 And 111 might also give the wrong impression 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg. 2011 Escitalopram 20mg. 2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS. Effexor 150mg. 2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants. Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms). 8 month hold. 2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent). 2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well. Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea. 2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase. 2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads. 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.' Dr Gabor Mate. Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 This was a post from Tgirl. I am so angry today.Angry at my doc for putting me on this pill.yes, I know I'm that one that took it!And I'm the one who will pay the price.I think it's illegal!I think it's sad.I think it's terrifying.And to think I paid him to do this to me.that's right he's making money MONEY off my misery.How does that sound?I'm sure he doesn't even lose a wink of sleep over me.Sickens me. I was totally oblivious to the unfolding of this tragic story ...mind you there are so many intros one cannot keep up with them all. Reading through the 9 or so pages of her intro thread this posting really jumped out at me... I could have written this myself i felt the same way same sentiments daily for two years plus.... RIP Tgirl Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 5, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 5, 2016 It's always a shock finding out a member has died , and we go and read the whole thread and look for clues. RIP T-girl. Karen ,just on the name thing , the first line of the first post lends insight to how the 11 came about. Mark couldn't be NZ1 because a screen-name needs four characters or longer. NZ , did you ever consider NZ666? 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Fresh you little devil you! Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 5, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 5, 2016 I am feeling a little bit naughty today NZ. Check out catnapt's recent victory. It shows there is always possibility for recovery. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Been seeing some threads recently where people are talking about their 'therapist' 'my therapist told me to get off my drug; my therapist recommended i try xyz drug and switch;...my therapist said.... Got me thinking what kind of therapist can make drug recommendations....?? a yoga therapist? sex therapist? nutritional therapist? psychotherapy therapist? aquine -assisted therapist? massage therapist? acupuncture therapist? physical therapy therapist? sports psychology therapist? a councelor therapist? ? ? a pharmaceutical therapist??? It beats me...could their possibly be a new type of therapist in town ...a pharma drug rep masquerading as a 'pharmaceutical therapist' ? In the first place it just cant be ethical ... it just doesnt seem right to me.... Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I met with my counsellor today and had a similar discussion. I bawled my eyes out at things that had been suppressed for years through taking antidepressants that have recently resurfaced in my mind. I think if i d had proper psychological support at those times instead of being heavily nedicated, i would have made a fuller recovery. I m working through these painful feelings with her now. When i went drug free some of the entries over the following week and subsequent ones went like this, cant stop crying cant sit or stand still vomitting dairrhea feel like i want to die cant sleep feel like i want to talk to someone...... I didnt know it at the time but what i was describing was akathisia. The terror was so bad it drove me to do something i wouldnt normally do i went to see a councellor ..i too before even given an invitation to talk just sobbed and sobbed....i felt so embarassed...i kept wanting to talk about stuff in the past like a broken engagement shortly after paxil exposure....(maybe thats tmi..still joining the dots on that)... I found not so much the councelling helpful but the unconditional positive regard and the talking for talking sake in and of itself was a distraction. I just kept going in circles so after a few session i stopped going. This is what i believe....i believe a person in ssri wdl is a councellors nightmare, constantly going in circles due to the neuro-emotions that are out of control. All that is needed is an empathic unconditional positive regard and a calming reassuring voice that keeps saying ‘You are going to be okay,’ ‘You will make it’. The brain is totally out of control and in a kind of 'psychotic ' state. It is just throwing up all kinds of past rubbish.The key here is knowing this a withdrawal manifestation and will pass. It comes in waves. It is the drug withdrawal. Alto as always articulates this just so well in the neuro emotions thread... “For quite a while in withdrawal, neuro-emotion led me to memories where I embarrassed myself, made a fool or myself, or was rejected. I couldn't shake them, I was reliving them intensely over and over. The feeling of shame and worthlessness was awful. I had to make a determined effort, which wasn't always successful, to distract myself from these memories. I kept reminding myself to forgive myself for my mistakes. Then reliving these memories went away. I'm not having this problem anymore (I hope). I presume that some area of my brain was being stimulated by dysregulated neuro-hormones, and now it's recovered. A person has to be very strong to cope with this and not get overwhelmed.” Right now your nervous system has become hyper-sensitive and extremely susceptible to every input from your surroundings, not only light and sound, but also thoughts are amplified and morph into reality.....imo you must also protect your sub-consciousness until you reach a level of emotional stability. Your brain and CNS is seriously impaired and cannot function properly. Something Breggin said really jumped out at me and it was this, "When conducting therapy with an individual whose brain is impaired by drug treatment or drug withdrawal avoid stirring up strong negative emotions or feelings of helplessness. Therapy that touches on painful subjects should be avoided until the individual's judgement and impulse control have improved." Breggin, Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal, 166. I put this out there not to be critical of councelling (for it has its place) but to make you aware that the councellor may not be aware of what is going on for an ssri sufferer ....oh i'm sure he/she has seen it everyday in their job only they may not know how to deal with it. Or may persue psychological approaches thinking they are useful when they may not be. imo . And im sure ssri sufferers are providing them with a lot of work. How do i know this cos when i told the councellor i was wdling from ssri and the symptoms (like lying in a fetal position on the floor wanting to die...etc) he learned forward and said nz11 i have many people coming to see me for this same reason and they have all described the wdl exactly as you have. I totally agree with Breggin on the fact that trying to persue past events (at this point in time) as real as the emotions are may not be the way to go. It may also cost a lot of money that may not need to be spent. Again im with Breggin listen to this, "Psychodynamic therapy is only appropriate when the withdrawal is relatively benign, so that the individual has the emotional stability and autonomy to handle emotional distress". Reassurance (you will be ok you will make it ) hope and empathy i feel are key . A loving supportive family member or friend can provide this also. There may be some who disagree with this i'm simply tabling it to give one view of it. I'm all for using whatever non-drugs tools there are in order to cope with wdl. nz11 I have decided to save this in my own thread perhaps for future access as it might get lost elsewhere. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 While i am saving stuff i decided to put this in as well ....hey these are not just 5 min posts you know... Member enquiry on wdl phases... Later....ive had a think and here are some phases, symptoms and time frames to ponder. Consider : The curious phase; Symptom (S) thinking ‘Should I really still be taking this drug after 10 years use’ ‘Why do I feel so numb to life’ Lasts until next docs visit. The enquiry phase; S, Asking doc questions like what the heck is this crap im swallowing anyway. Are you sure this is not addictive? Lasts for one consultation and about two weeks after. The confused phase; S- Unhappy with doctor blitherings and a desire to start to do ‘googling’ The humiliation phase; S- after 10 mins of googling a sense of horror begins to descend and a tsunami of shear unbelief emerges…..timeframe -after 5 years I am still in it. The urgency phase; S- A desire to tell the doctor ‘get me off this crap!!’ Lasts until next doctor visit and during his predictable kamakazi taper schedule. The uninformed taper phase; S- On the doctors instructions you become drug free within a month often sooner. The hypomanic phase; S- I am so glad I got that poison out of me ….i feel much more alive. Timeframe about 1 week to 2 months. The crash phase; S – a sense of wanting to die emerges. Occurs about 2-3 months once off the drug. The akathisia phase; S- uncontrolled restlessness and uncontrolled psychological panic suicidality topped off with crying spells. 2-3 years. The doc help me phase; S- a sudden urge to run to the doc / anyone in order to take away the suffering. 2 -4 years. The terror/unimaginable/ I want to scream horror phase; S –PSSD, may last forever. The un-patient me phase; S- A sudden realization sinks in that the doctor has no idea what he is doing, peddling or promoting. Comes on very quickly and may last for the rest of your life. It’s a major paradigm shifting phase. Can be triggered by experiencing full blown ssri withdrawal. Some are incapable of passing through this phase . The im not taking anymore bullsh#t phase ; S- the growing of two antennae, ones called Blinkin and the others called Stupid or BS for short. Growth begins during the 10 mins of googling. The uncontrollable anger phase; S- When the neighbours dog barks one time too many, one is overcome with a desire to nuke the neighbor, the neighbours house and pets. And that family member who criticizes me …oh boy you just started a cold war and the resurrection of the Berlin wall. 2 years maybe 3 years. A desire to say things that people can get put in jail for saying. If not careful collateral damage could last a life time. The out of control manic/psychotic phase; S- A desire to persue self destructive actions and reckless spending and foolish impulsive decision making. 3 4 years...and anytime while on the drug. The I cant take this anymore in the mornings phase; S- A desire to go to bed and never wake up again. 4 years The windows and waves phase; S- windows and waves, years. I am not going to make it phase; S- about 3-4 years. I am outraged about what has happened to me phase; S writing letters of complaints prolifically ….kicks in at about the 2 year stage… The diarrhea and flatulence phase; S – diarrhea and flatulence , ongoing may last for years. The insomnia phase; S - cant get a regular nights sleep, should resolve itself usually takes about 9 years . The OCD phase; S – OCD; usually only realized with hindsight and insight. Maybe 5 years. The chronic fatigue and muscle weakness phase; S - fatigue and weakness, Not sure how long it lasts but i hope it resolves soon cos at 5 years this phase truly sucks. The I found SA phase; S- Overwhelming thankfulness and relief one is not alone, also a sudden desire to welcome every newbie...with a flood of opinions, Can last a long time and may become an addiction...after 5 years im still in it. Hoping to taper sometime soon. oh yeah one more ...The i'm getting on with my life phase ; S- forgetting to check in to sa because i have a life to live ...hopefully kicks in sooner rather than later. There are heaps more but this is just a couple that came to mind Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I like to learn new things as well as keep my thread on the front page so im saving this, "Withdrawal syndrome can last for months or years. There are no distinct phases other than at first, the symptoms are called acute withdrawal and later, they are called post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) or prolonged withdrawal syndrome. There is no way to predict how long withdrawal syndrome will last for anyone." If you find your symptoms getting worse, please consider reinstating a very small amount. ..................//............................ prolonged= protracted . CLAWS - Chronic Long- term Acute Withdrawal Syndrome ?, Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 To do list for today : 1. Pick up from library Owens 'Confessions of a Rx pusher and Kirschs 'The emporers drugs' 2. Finish doing my Weekes fafl notes...then type it out Get audio sorted. 3. Return to library 'side effects....' by A Bass. 4. Try to refrain from using pen or highlighter when underlining sentences in library books. Then watch : Panel with Whittaker, Kirsch, Gabriel Cousens, and former Drug rep Gwen Olsen. Very compelling. 2 parts -- about an hour each. http://www.therealtr...industry-part-1 http://www.therealtr...industry-part-1 Its gonna be another busy day! ! oh yeah 5. Eat and drink ! Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 8, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hey nz , I tried to message you and there's no "send message" option. Is your mail box full? 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted January 8, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hi NZ, I listened to the video (The Truth about pharmaceutical drugs) you mentioned yesterday (couldn't get Part 2 to work though). Listened to this one today and it is well worth listening to Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher : Gwen Olsen (50 minutes) great for people who don't like reading or can't buy or get hold of the book. I was wondering if there is a Topic for Useful videos etc. CC * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Faithgrl Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 NZ1-Love your phases and I feel I need to refer to it if I don't think I am doing well! Sooooo if the muscle fatigue last forever, what do you do for exercise? Do you just get on with it and do what you want? I want to play squash but get really tired and am not sure whether I should just "get on with my life" and play, ignoring the symptoms or not.... Prescribed Lexapro in 2003 and switched to Cipramil (5-10mg per day) 2004 with Lamictal. Stopped Lamictal cold turkey with no withdrawals in 2014 with support of a Paleo diet. 2003-2015 Cipramil only: 5mg 21 Dec 15: 2.5mg 28 Dec 15: 2.25mg 4 Jan 16: 1.575mg 10 Jan 16: 1.1025 11 Jan 16: 0.7875 25 Jan 16: 0.9, 1 Feb: 0.8, 8 Feb 0.75, 15 Feb 0.5, 29 Feb 0.25, 21 March 0.17, 4 April: 0.10, 25 April 0.05, 8 May 2016 0.05, 15 May 2016 NIL 21 June 2016 0.1, 5 Sep 16: 0.2 7 Sep 16: 0.15 16 Sep 16: 0.075 3 Oct 16: 0.015 17 October: 0.015, 14 Nov 2016: Reinstate 0.005, 26 Dec 16 0.0045, 2 Jan 17 0.004, 20 Feb 17 0.003, 3 Apr 17 0.002, 22 May 17 NIL. Supplements/Lifestyle: Low oxalate diet. Christian music all the time! B12 drops, Broccoli sprouts, Integra Nutritionals Gemmune IB, Zinc drops, Tresos Natal, Spatone Healing rooms: https://www.facebook.com/FODaustralia/videos and http://sydneyheal.com/service/time-and-location/ Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hey nz , I tried to message you and there's no "send message" option. Is your mail box full? Been so busy working on my next post and .....doing some housecleaning.....cleared the 49 pms, blocked a couple more members and chased off a couple of harrasing stalkers wanting my phone number. Enjoying having a break from PMs for awhile. Fresh You havent run out of essential oils again? juniper berries? eucalyptus leaves? Priorities. ...now to tidy up the 100 'follows'...didnt realize i can follow anonymous. Hi NZ, I listened to the video (The Truth about pharmaceutical drugs) you mentioned yesterday (couldn't get Part 2 to work though). Listened to this one today and it is well worth listening to Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher : Gwen Olsen (50 minutes) great for people who don't like reading or can't buy or get hold of the book. I was wondering if there is a Topic for Useful videos etc. CC Well you are ahead of me i havent had time to watch it yet. Hey great idea about the video thread....hey why dont YOU be the first to start one. What do you think? lol Yeah we need a sticky video thread ...no comments, just vids. NZ1-Love your phases and I feel I need to refer to it if I don't think I am doing well! Sooooo if the muscle fatigue last forever, what do you do for exercise? Do you just get on with it and do what you want? I want to play squash but get really tired and am not sure whether I should just "get on with my life" and play, ignoring the symptoms or not.... Thanks supergirl oops i mean faithgl....love the avatar. exercise - basically im going through the motions. I ride the stationary bike for an hour at the gym ...motivation is difficult but helped by the fact i can put a book in front of the tv monitor and do some reading unless the cricket is on and then i get distracted. Lost all motivation to get racquets and get on court ...no energy or anything. My suppleness and flexibility has been totally wiped out. If you can get on court and play then go for it...but dont go too hard out you may trigger wdl symptoms from a sensitized cns......but if you do dont panic ...my next post will be very helpful. I found once i got off the drug my physical fitness and strength just disintegrated. I think you are looking pretty good with that great taper. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 These are notes from Claire Weekes on recovery from nervous illness taken from 'Essential help for your nerves' ie (Two of her books combined into one being, More help for your nerves and Peace from nervous suffering) This dated back to the last century (70's? ) so Weeks writes in the 3rd person masculine so it is not gender neutral. (Sorry bout that i couldnt be bothered changing it). Weeks talk is referring to the nervously ill. Take from it anything that may be of help. Say no to drugs and yes to Weekes I have organised her chapter in a hopefully easy to follow note form. (Where i couldnt make notes i just typed the whole paragraph...hey why not!) ch 2 Weekes offers help to the nervously ill. Allowing them to take back control of their lives. Her empathic guidance, comfort and self-help practical strategies ultimately allows one to self soothe and recover from nervous illness. Recovery Weekes teaches recovery from nervous illness by using 4 simple concepts. FAFL (or AAFL) Facing, Accepting, Floating, and Letting time pass. Facing = acknowledging that cure must come from within oneself, with guidance and help from outside of course, and not from some permanent outside crutch. Facing means: 1. Facing the things you fear for recovery lies in the places and experiences feared. 2. Not shying away from nervous symptoms for fear of making them worse. Note: Shying away is running away not facing 3. Saying ‘It doesn’t matter, I can cope’ Some try to avoid panic, yet when it returns even minimally brave flags crumple. Facing is when our inner voice hopefully says, “Perhaps it won’t happen here”, it is then trumped by an even larger voice saying “It doesn’t matter if it does happen here. It doesn’t matter anymore. I can cope with it.” 4. Recognising that the way of recovery can be difficult Once prepared to FACE the next step is acceptance. Acceptance ACCEPTANCE IS A DEFINITE PHYSIOLOGICAL PROCESS THAT EVENTUALLY SOOTHES ACCEPTANCE MEANS: 1. Letting the body loosen as much as possible then going toward not withdrawing from the feared symptoms the feared experiences. 2. ‘Letting go’, ‘going with’ bending like the willow before the wind – rolling with the punches! When one goes forward into panic (and any feared symptoms) the secretion of the hormones, principally adrenaline, is reduced. On the other hand tensing encourages further secretion and so more sensitization and therefore more intense symptoms. 3. Keeping an open mind Despite thinking acceptance is impossible I will at the very least ‘think about’ acceptance. 4. Realizing acceptance is the beginning. Established sensitization can rarely be soothed quickly because it takes time for the new mood of acceptance to be felt as peace. 5. Realizing it takes time for a body to establish acceptance. Question: How can I accept while I still complain of symptoms? The most frightening symptom is panic because in a sensitized person it can strike so fiercely and so quickly, even thinking about it can bring it on. Of course naturally we recoil, tense against it, try to stop the flash coming however tension brings more sensitization and so more panic. 6. Seeking out Understanding i. It is difficult to accept erratic heartbeats, shaking, restlessness if one thinks they are going to die. But easier when one understands they are not going to die. That these symptoms are a temporary and unimportant upset in their nervous timing. ii. Understand the flash of panic is no more than an electric discharge while it may feel devastating, it is only an electrical flash along sensory nerves. iii. Blind acceptance can cure as well is acceptance based on knowledge; but when knowledge guides, acceptance is easier. iv. ‘Putting up’ with is not acceptance. 7. Realizing acceptance is not easy. Its not easy to accept, a fire that consumes, vibrating, shaking, stomach churning, limbs aching, heart pounding, sight blurred, foggy head, a feeling one will snap at any moment….yet accept. 8. Realizing that the cure lies in losing fear and that this is earned only by learning how to go through it the right way – with acceptance. 9. Submission Is facing and relaxing, being prepared to go slowly with as little self- induced agitation as possible vs ‘Putting up with’ equals resistance. Repeated panics can be exhausting. 10. Not adding a ‘second- fear’. Accept symptoms without adding a ‘second- fear ‘ (fear of symptoms, especially fear of panic). 11. Active involvement. Practice acceptance, make yourself comfortable, take a deep breath, let it out slowly, let your tummy muscles sag. 12. Throwing away the gun and letting the tiger come if he wants to. Acceptance is key to recovery. Peace lies on the other side of panic. By going through panic to the other side you earned a little voice that says, “It doesn’t matter anymore if panic comes!” This is the only voice to listen to… Even if you find yourself helpless on the floor Floating In the past Orthodox psychiatric treatments rarely recognize the importance of fear-of-fear and too often persisted with searching for childhood causes, which was neither necessary or helpful. Yet fear-of-the-fear is valid. We should float the symptoms not fight them. Floating Means: 1. No grim determination, no clenched teeth as little pushing, forcing as possible. 2. Not adding panic to panic. 3. “I’ll go with it”, as gently as I can. 4. Not lying and gazing at the ceiling thinking, ‘I don’t have to make an effort I’ll give up the struggle.’ [nz11: Although this can be relaxing at times!] 5. Not searching for a way to recover. It’s as if one steps aside from the body and lets it find its own way out of the maze. The body that so skillfully heals a physical wound without our direction can also heal sensitized nerves if given a chance and not hindered by inquisitive fingers picking at the scar. Float don’t pick. 6. Removing the tension of forcing making repeated effort less daunting, vs fighting which is exhausting. 7. Holding one point of view Expecting a bewildered confused person to find his own answers to his problem is rarely good therapy. It can mean an unnecessarily long period of suffering because too often through sensitization and fatigue, the sufferer switches too easily and too quickly from one point of view to another stop. Holding one point of view that brings some peace is essential for recovery. A good therapist helps his patient find such a viewpoint. 8. Trying to lead all disturbing obstructive thoughts float away, out of your head. Note: This does not mean floating past real problems Accepting and floating are very similar. Letting Time Pass Nervously ill people are impatient with time and want immediate appeasement. Impatience means tension and tension is the enemy of healing. A still, sensitized body can be deceptively calm in a calm atmosphere but a body even only slightly sensitized cannot always maintain calmness under renewed stress. So time, more time must pass. Time itself is a healer. It’s similar to the donkey and the carrot. The carrot (recovery) must be shifted just a little forward during each setback but always remain within sight. How long will recovery take? So much depends on the degree of sensitization and the circumstances of recovery. There may be constant strain e.g. domestic situation. Also it takes time to blunt memories cutting edge. We can’t anaesthetise memory. Indeed, when surprised by some grueling memory, who can suppress an inner shudder? And yet, the person trying to recover from nervous illness seems to think he should. He wants the balm of constant peace. It is difficult to understand that a body’s sensitized reaction to memory is no more than the working of a natural law; difficult to understand that a setback is not always a setback in the sense that it sets back, but should be even expected and accepted as part of recovery. Setbacks should be expected and accepted as part of recovery. Its victim is much more likely to believe that some strange jinx is bugging him. His jinx is his lack of understanding. When so close to past upsetting experiences, and with the body still churn to give a too quick, too intense, reaction to memories prodding, it is natural to be too easily bluffed by memory into thinking he will never recover. When memory first strikes it is as if the sufferer has learned nothing from past experience. The symptoms he learned to disregard suddenly begin to matter again – very much. And before he has time to study himself enough to think clearly, he feels sucked willy -nilly nearly into the whirlpool of setback. However if he had originally worked his way out of suffering the hard way – by having truly faced and lived with his symptoms while accepting them, having conquered adding second fear (fear of symptoms, especially fear of panic ) then memory of his original recovery gradually awakens the little inner voice that says, ‘you’ve come out of it before. You can do it now! ‘ You know that the symptoms do not really matter! He hears this voice with thanksgiving and relief, because with it comes a special feeling, a realization that the symptoms really do not matter. He now feels this; doesn’t just think it is he did at the beginning of setback. He now feels that with relief. Fear gradually goes; relaxation and peace come. He is on the way to true recovery. Recovery is built on repeated experiences of discovering that symptoms no longer matter. When enough setbacks bring enough such experiences, the feeling of symptoms- no-longer mattering comes more quickly, is more forceful, and the impact of memory shock becomes weaker and weaker until it is but an echo of former suffering. Setback is one of the best teachers, and an almost essential halting place in recovery because it gives more time to relearn and practice. [A therapist may not understand this]. At some point in nervous illness the sufferer may be so ill he no longer cares what happens; however, as he begins to recover, caring returns and this may be complicated by his feeling that although much better, he cannot face the future demands and responsibilities of normal living. At such a time he is often accused of not wanting to get better. Make no mistake, he wants to recover, but at the same time the prospect of coping with the demands of recovery may be so frightening while he is in his present state of only partial recovery, that he almost convinces himself that the criticism may be true – another bewilderment in nervous illness! Enough time must pass to provide a protective layer of normal responses to help him gradually find his balance and normal living, to take normal reaction for granted. As his body strengthens, his spirits rise, optimism and confidence returned. The process may be so gradual he may be unaware of it. It is this gradualness that makes all possible and only the passage of enough time can bring such gradualness. A Dutchman once said to Vera Brittain (an English author) that the postwar Dutch were suffering from a spiritual sickness which time and understanding alone would heal. He said that suffering could not be eraised the moment the war ended and peace came; time was necessary for the Dutch to regain their balance, their ability to be on top of events, including their own lives. He added; ‘Be patient with us. We have to grow into liberty.’ And so must the nervously ill person grow into recovery. There is no electric switch, no overnight cure. Many nervously ill people expect recovery to bring a state of peace they never previously felt. For many people piece is often further delayed by their two fearful, and too tense, recoil from a binding awareness of self – the result of months, even years, of concentration on themselves and their illness. They delay their own recovery by trying to force forgetfullness. Nothing can be forced in nervous illness. The only way to lose consciousness of self is to accept it; to accept any thought that comes as part of ordinary thinking. This means that they should think about themselves and their illness as much as the habit demands and realize that it is only a habit fostered by mental fatigue. Once more I stress that the key to recovery is not in forgetting but in no- longer- mattering, for this time must pass. When the patient realises that the intensity of his reaction is part of his sensitization and that if he accepts it and that’s more time passed, those reactions will gradually become normal, then intense reaction can be born more philosophically this is sometimes called regaining one’s balance and, as the Dutchman said to Vera Brittain, it takes time. And a bit extra thrown in... Last 2 pages of book , p409-410 The Alarming Return of Panic Reviewing the difficulties of recovery I would say the most alarming of all is the return of panic weeks, even years, after recovery. In my experience, this unexpected reappearance of panic causes more concern than any other aspect of nervous illness. It shocks, frightens, and it reminds. That is why it is so shocking. Reminds one of so much one would rather forget forever; of so much one hoped one had forgotten forever. The fear immediately added, together with the physical disturbance caused by panic, resensitises slightly and helps bring back some of the old, perhaps almost forgotten, nervous sensations, so that the unwary sufferer may be bluffed into thinking it has returned, will return if he doesn’t look out. Never retreat from fear, in fear. Never let an unexpected return of panic shock you into running away from it. Halt; go slowly. See the panic through and then go quietly on with whatever you are doing. That the panic come again and again if it wants to. Do not try to switch it off in fear; do not withdraw blindly from it. Understand that some tension, some strain, may have slightly sensitized you once more; or that memory, stirred by some sight, sound, thought, smell, may have flashed the old feeling. Any of us at times may become slightly sensitised by strain, so that we feel on edge, apprehensive. If this happens to one who has felt panic intensively in the past, his apprehension can quickly change to panic, because the way to panic in him is so well worn. One could almost say his panic mechanism is well oiled, ready. If you accept that for a long time to come you may have a strong flash of panic from time to time, and if you can realise this means no more than that you are slightly sensitised for the moment, or that memory has stirred the embers of your illness, and if you can see this panic through for what it is – only a physical feeling without real significance – then you are truly recovered despite occasional bouts of recurring panic. I remind you again that recovery from panic lies on the other side of panic, whenever it may come. Always see it through and go on with the job in hand. Never run home and fear. Never begin avoiding again. So: Accept everything about your illness. Do not waste energy trying to analyse every strange happening. Do not be dismayed by sit back; nor bluffed by memory. Do not despair when achievements seems unreal; practice, never test. Do not be overawed by defeatist contemplation. Do not be dismayed if you feel nervy than ever when you first begin the journey to recovery. Do not be discouraged by physical illness. Above all, do not be shocked by return of panic, or any strange flash experience. You may think there is so much to remember, so much to do. There isn’t, you know. It is all in one word – accept. Once you have the understanding this book brings, it will not matter if you forget the rest, as long as you remember that wonderful word accept. Good luck. ...........................................//....................................................... Now the next thing is to rewrite FAFL with a specific ssri wdl recovery lens. There is a challenge. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted January 9, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 9, 2016 That's great nz!did you see that Petunia started a thread on Weekes (I believe in symptoms)? Maybe you could copy it there... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Faithgrl Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I love your Weekes post! It feels very Grow ...but much nicer.... Prescribed Lexapro in 2003 and switched to Cipramil (5-10mg per day) 2004 with Lamictal. Stopped Lamictal cold turkey with no withdrawals in 2014 with support of a Paleo diet. 2003-2015 Cipramil only: 5mg 21 Dec 15: 2.5mg 28 Dec 15: 2.25mg 4 Jan 16: 1.575mg 10 Jan 16: 1.1025 11 Jan 16: 0.7875 25 Jan 16: 0.9, 1 Feb: 0.8, 8 Feb 0.75, 15 Feb 0.5, 29 Feb 0.25, 21 March 0.17, 4 April: 0.10, 25 April 0.05, 8 May 2016 0.05, 15 May 2016 NIL 21 June 2016 0.1, 5 Sep 16: 0.2 7 Sep 16: 0.15 16 Sep 16: 0.075 3 Oct 16: 0.015 17 October: 0.015, 14 Nov 2016: Reinstate 0.005, 26 Dec 16 0.0045, 2 Jan 17 0.004, 20 Feb 17 0.003, 3 Apr 17 0.002, 22 May 17 NIL. Supplements/Lifestyle: Low oxalate diet. Christian music all the time! B12 drops, Broccoli sprouts, Integra Nutritionals Gemmune IB, Zinc drops, Tresos Natal, Spatone Healing rooms: https://www.facebook.com/FODaustralia/videos and http://sydneyheal.com/service/time-and-location/ Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Gwen Olsen spent more than a decade as a sales rep in the pharmaceutical industry. In 2005 she wrote a book ‘Confessions of an Rx drug pusher.’ It’s not often now that a book can upset me however at times reading this I had to put it down and walk away. This excerpt is taken from the book, Olsen is talking about an NSAID drug [Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs is a class of analgesic medication that reduces pain, fever and inflammation.] called Suprol (suprofen). “… This was my first new drug launch. I remember the pride and exuberance I felt at the national launch meeting in which loudspeakers pumped out motivating theme music and medical researchers and marketing managers gave exciting, emotional speeches. I soaked in every word with anticipation and awe. I believed this drug was really going to help people! During the breaks, scientists and corporate executives chatted amicably with reps while feasting on an elaborate array of snacks and beverages. Sumptuous gourmet meals and nightly entertainment further catered to the already inflated egos of the sales force. Open bars accompanied every event. T-shirts and ball caps emblazoned with the Suprol logo were distributed, along with sports bags that would transport all reps required goodies back home. Pumped full of enthusiasm and focused on the key opinion leaders in my community, I returned to my territory. I bombarded them with studies and marketing materials in an effort to find support for my new drug. Marketing direction was very specific. Doctors in each territory had been profiled prior to the launch, and I was well informed as to who the early adopters and high-volume prescribers (HPV’s) of NSAIDs were. I was also aware of marketing’s last-ditch effort directive to ask a reluctant prescriber to give me just one new start patient, even if it was his or her most difficult patient that had failed other therapies. The rationale was, if a doctor had success in one of his or her most difficult patients, he or she would be more inclined to write prescriptions for additional patients. One of my doctors who practised in a small coastal town wrote large numbers of anti-inflammatory drugs for his predominantly geriatric population. He was an older doctor himself, very wise, but set in his ways. He had been profiled as a Late Adopter/Sceptic. After a lengthy debate about the benefits of my new product, he shared his philosophy with me, which was not to prescribe a new drug until it had been on the market for a full year. This way, he could avoid initial unknown complications that invariably surfaced with each new product. In other words, he preferred a “better safe than sorry” approach. Still, I persisted in my enthusiasm and, as I had been instructed asked for that “most difficult patient.” I didn’t leave until the doctor had committed to try the drug on at least one patient. He did finally commit, or, to use sales jargon, I closed. I left triumphant… Or so I thought. I continued drumming up support for Suprol and had just gotten it added to my major teaching hospitals formulary when I got the bad news. An emergency teleconference was called, and the company announced a “Dear Doctor “ letter would be sent to all physicians that day addressing “new complications” associated with, primarily flank pain. Nearly 25% of the patients affected had required hospitalisation. Flank pain is a very serious side effect because it indicates the possibility of kidney damage. Little did I know at the time, one of the doctors who had reported an adverse event, which eventually resulted in death due to dialysis complications, was in my territory. I was later contacted and instructed by management to have my doctor complete an adverse drug reaction report (ADR) much to my surprise the doctor referenced in my instructions was the late adopter/sceptic, who had promised me his “most difficult patient” against his better judgement. Even more startling would be the discovery that the patient had been his very own mother. Of course, I didn’t find that out until I visited him to do the ADR. (By the way the ADR was a daunting ream of paperwork that appeared to be designed to discourage busy doctors from reporting.) I will never forget the betrayed look on his face or his terse remark to me that “the company’s marketing strategy had obviously been more thoroughly tested than our drug!” I was devastated and riddled with guilt. I didn’t call on his office again for nearly 6 months. I didn’t have the nerve! " p44-46 ...................//......................................... Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted January 18, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 18, 2016 In the radio interview (Post #409 about) she made no mention of this: “the company’s marketing strategy had obviously been more thoroughly tested than our drug!” Thank goodness for her speaking out. And now we also have the brain dead painkiller/nerve drug "guinea pig". CC * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus KarenB Posted January 18, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 18, 2016 Good God. You know what? That excerpt left me feeling the same way I do when we discover on s/a that somebody has committed suicide. Because what those people are doing is tying the noose. I would really like to write a swear word right now. 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg. 2011 Escitalopram 20mg. 2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS. Effexor 150mg. 2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants. Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms). 8 month hold. 2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent). 2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well. Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea. 2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase. 2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads. 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.' Dr Gabor Mate. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 19, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 19, 2016 Hate to change the subject , but . . . I thought this article , released today may be of interest. In the vein of other electrical stimulation devices , RiSK published this article about a new device for PSSD. In a study of one (the author) his testosterone rose after use. I'm not sure if anything else rose. http://rxisk.org/is-fsm-a-treatment-for-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction-pssd/ 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yes i was aware of that article and had read it. thanks. Nice to see low T acknowledged as a hallmark of pssd. ....a few doctors have given me the most idioticaly stupid reasons for it. I now believe the damage done to me in this area is permanent. Thats right i said the 'P' word. I also now believe damage in this area is not a function of taper speed. nz11 3.50am Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
AliG Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I do not believe the " P " word applies to any symptom in this " Withdrawal Nightmare". It is all temporary . It is all down to time. If stroke victims can recover, so can we. Ali. Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
AliG Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 NZ. You're not sleeping either ? It gets " old " doesn't it. 2 am , here. 5 am there ? Hang in there. This will get better. ( one day ) . Ali Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Member Blue passed away this week this was a post she made in July 15 on her intro thread. Iatrogenic psychotropic drug withdrawal is pretty much next to impossible for a non drugged brain to imagine. i could certainly relate to this feeling of abandonment and betrayal. I think a big part of why I feel so bad psychologically is this: - being abandoned by God - God allowing this to happen to me - God no helping me - being damaged not by a natural illness or accident, but being violated by people (doctors) - and having that damage denied It's almost an existential crisis and total disappointment with life in general and the human condition. RIP Blue. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 I would advise peer support as having over and above much more value than 'professional' support' which is so often guided by a severely flawed DSM and financial imperatives. I say this as a former social worker and therapeutic counsellor. The motives of my peers were often not in the best interest of clients.In all truth, they damaged them. This is one of the major reasons that I disengaged from my profession.I loved my clients deeply, but hated my peers for their incongruity and self serving behaviour. 'Professionals' are not always professional. Please, everyone, acknowledge this to enable you to move forward and empower yourselves. There is value beyond measure in peer support. Wanted to save this. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 The equivalent strengths paper was very interesting i want to put this here. I wonder if there is any subjective-ness to this. From the paper, dosage of fluoxetine 40 mg/day (a high dosage; "normal" dosage of fluoxetine is 20mg) was equivalent to: paroxetine 34.0 mg/day agomelatine 53.2 mg/day amitriptyline, 122.3 mg/day bupropion 348.5 mg/day clomipramine 116.1 mg/day desipramine 196.3 mg/day dothiepin 154.8 mg/day doxepin 140.1 mg/day escitalopram 18.0 mg/day (note: 9mg escilatopram = 20mg fluoxetine, the "normal" dose of fluoxetine) fluvoxamine 143.3 mg/day imipramine 137.2 mg/day lofepramine 250.2 mg/day maprotiline 118.0 mg/day mianserin, 101.1 mg/day mirtazapine 50.9 mg/day moclobemide 575.2 mg/day nefazodone 535.2 mg/day nortriptyline 100.9 mg/day reboxetine 11.5 mg/day sertraline 98.5 mg/day trazodone 401.4 mg/day venlafaxine 149.4 mg/day http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11108-hayasaka-2015-dose-equivalents-of-antidepressants-evidence-based-recommendations-from-randomized-controlled-trials/ Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) for my own (future) use ..from the above i get.. 1mg of rebox. = 1.6mg escita. = 3.0 mg paroxetine = 3.5mg prozac = 4.4 mg remeron = 8.6mg zoloft = 8.8mg nortriptyline = 10 mg anafranil = 10.6mg amitriptyline = 13mg venlafaxine = 30.3 mg wellbutrin = 34.9 mg trazodone [Most potent .....to....least potent . (mg for mg)] Not too sure what exactly can be read into this. I was surprised to see venlafaxine so far to the right hand side in the potency scale on a mg:mg basis. Isnt that reboxetine a potent shiny red apple! Edited January 27, 2016 by KarenB corrected wellbutrin figure Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Mentor Happy2Heal Posted January 25, 2016 Mentor Share Posted January 25, 2016 I am finding that keeping track of your thread is giving me a lot of good info in one place, I like that you save all these different things. Don't understand them all but it's helpful to have them in one place PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PRIVATE MESSAGES, thank you. pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total) Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. First attempt to get off it was 2007- WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". felt ok until Sept, then acute WD hit!! reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106 Tapered off to zero by Oct. 2017 Doing very well. Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, age 63 Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content PRESENT DAYS: Loving life! ❤️ with all it's ups and downs Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted January 25, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 25, 2016 Brilliant nz , thanks for doing that. I understand it much better now than the 18mg comparisons. If someone is on only 1mg of reboxetine , or1.6mg escitalopram , that's the same as 13mg venlafaxine. Whereas one might feel it's okay to "jump" from 1 or 2 mg , because it's so small , this illustrates that it's like jumping from 33 or 34 mg of other drugs. Now I appreciate why so many people are on such tiny doses of meds. like remeron. It's mighty powerful stuff. 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Thanks Fresh yeah it is interesting. ..................................//................................................. ok here are some more comparisons from the view point of each drug if it makes it easier to see. (numbers not triple checked but appear ok as increasing from left to right) 1mg of paroxetine = 0.33mg rebox = 0.5mg escit = 1.2mg prozac = 1.5 mg remeron = 2.9 mg zoloft = 4.3mg venlafaxine or 1mg prozac = 0.29 mg rebox = 0.46 mg escit = 0.86mg of paroxetine = 1.3mg remeron = 2.5mg zoloft = 3.7mg ven or 1mg remeron = 0.23 mg rebox = 0.36 mg escit = 0.68 mg parox = 0.8mg prozac = 1.95 mg zoloft = 2.95 mg ven or 1mg zoloft = 0.1mg rebox = 0.2mg escit = 0.3mg parox = 0.4 mg prozac = 0.5mg rem = 1.5 mg ven or 1mg venlaf. = 0.08mg rebox= 0.12 mg escit = 0.23mg parox = 0.27mg prozac = 0.34mg rem = 0.66mg zoloft ...................................................//.................................................... so someone tells you they are on 150 mg of remeron say....to get a comparison strength wise then go to the 1mg of remeron statement above (xyz drug then go to the xyz line above) We then multiply everything in the line by 150 giving 150mg rem = 34.5mg rebox (0.23 x 150) = 54mg escital. (0.36 x 150) = 102mg paroxetine (0.68 x 150) = 120 mg prozac (0.8 x 150) = 292.5mg zoloft = 442.5mg venlaf. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus KarenB Posted January 25, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Wow, now that's given me a picture I can understand. I think this needs to go in a thread somewhere - I'll have a look around. What about here? http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11108-hayasaka-2015-dose-equivalents-of-antidepressants-evidence-based-recommendations-from-randomized-controlled-trials/ Edited January 25, 2016 by KarenB added link 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg. 2011 Escitalopram 20mg. 2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS. Effexor 150mg. 2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants. Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms). 8 month hold. 2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent). 2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well. Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea. 2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase. 2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads. 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.' Dr Gabor Mate. Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted January 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2016 I can see why you're not getting any sleep NZ11. You'd have to be staying up nights to figure all of that. LOL Thanks for doing it, that is some really helpful information. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Gee this is a bit overwhelming ... ah ok... Actually i think a better idea if you like this perspective on it is to do a spread sheet with scenarios that will produce instant comparisons and remove all possibility of errors (i already made one this morning and didnt catch it before the edit window closed). later... So just back from the library and have a book on spreadsheet scenarios...... ...now to try to understand it...and do it.. I'll give myself an hour and see what i can come up with ...don't really want to stay late in the office today...all my bills are paid so i don't need the overtime! back later...i'll let you know how it goes. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 I can see why you're not getting any sleep NZ11. You'd have to be staying up nights to figure all of that. LOL Thanks for doing it, that is some really helpful information. Yep staying up late at night dreaming of figures.....i wish that were so or even possible. No one believes me when i tell them number figures ....alas!! Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus KarenB Posted January 26, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 26, 2016 Actually i think a better idea if you like this perspective on it is to do a spread sheet with scenarios that will produce instant comparisons and remove all possibility of errors (i already made one this morning and didnt catch it before the edit window closed). And you thought our ideas were overwhelming? I seem to recall ChessieCat is good with spread sheets, but has she been around lately? 2010 Fluoxetine 20mg. 2011 Escitalopram 20mg. 2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS. Effexor 150mg. 2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants. Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms). 8 month hold. 2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent). 2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well. Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea. 2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase. 2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads. 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.' Dr Gabor Mate. Link to comment
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