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Schmidt, 2014 Prebiotic intake reduces the waking cortisol response and alters emotional bias in healthy volunteers


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#1 Addax

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 10:44 AM

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2014 Dec 3.

Prebiotic Intake Reduces the Waking Cortisol Response and Alters Emotional Bias In Healthy Volunteers

Kristin Schmidt, Philip J. Cowen, Catherine J. Harmer, George Tzortzis, Steven Errington, and Philip W. J. Burnet

Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25449699 Link: http://link.springer...0/fulltext.html

Rationale
There is now compelling evidence for a link between enteric microbiota and brain function. The ingestion of probiotics modulates the processing of information that is strongly linked to anxiety and depression, and influences the neuroendocrine stress response. We have recently demonstrated that prebiotics (soluble fibres that augment the growth of indigenous microbiota) have significant neurobiological effects in rats, but their action in humans has not been reported.

Objectives
The present study explored the effects of two prebiotics on the secretion of the stress hormone, cortisol and emotional processing in healthy volunteers.

Methods
Forty-five healthy volunteers received one of two prebiotics (fructooligosaccharides, FOS, or Bimuno®-galactooligosaccharides, B-GOS) or a placebo (maltodextrin) daily for 3 weeks. The salivary cortisol awakening response was sampled before and after prebiotic/placebo administration. On the final day of treatment, participants completed a computerised task battery assessing the processing of emotionally salient information.

Results
The salivary cortisol awakening response was significantly lower after B-GOS intake compared with placebo. Participants also showed decreased attentional vigilance to negative versus positive information in a dot-probe task after B-GOS compared to placebo intake. No effects were found after the administration of FOS.

Conclusion
The suppression of the neuroendocrine stress response and the increase in the processing of positive versus negative attentional vigilance in subjects supplemented with B-GOS are consistent with previous findings of endocrine and anxiolytic effects of microbiota proliferation. Further studies are therefore needed to test the utility of B-GOS supplementation in the treatment of stress-related disorders.
Keywords Cortisol Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis Gut microbiota Prebiotics Anxiety Attention Emotional processing


Edited by Altostrata, 31 December 2014 - 10:51 AM.
format

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#2 Altostrata

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 10:48 AM

Well done, Addax!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#3 Ever

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 11:03 AM

Now THAT is cool Addax!

I've been studying nutrition for over 50 years now, human, dog, horse, rat, ferret etc etc. I still do not consider myself an expert. But more and more I'm realising how much the gut has to do with our mental health.

Recently, my horse had problems with his feet and had to go on painkillers and steroids for 10 days. His feet came right fairly quickly, but he was noticeably depressed for several weeks after that. This has happened before with other animals I've had. I believe that their gut flora has been affected by the drugs.

Put on Prothiaden for severe depression in 1989.  Recovered.   Prescribed Paxil for another bout of depression around 2000.   Have been trying to taper ever since but always crash about 2 months after getting to zero.   Because of the crashes, for years I thought that there was something wrong with me.   Then found that the crashes were simply withdrawal.   Now following a maximum of a 10% reduction every month or so and ready to slow down any time I feel any symptoms whatsoever.  Feeling good:).

7th Jan 15 - 3.6mg

28th Jan 15 - 3.2mg


#4 Meimeiquest

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 11:08 AM

Yes, thank you, Addax. How do you get B-GOS?
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#5 Barbarannamated

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 12:36 PM

Yes, thank you, Addax. How do you get B-GOS?


Ditto. What is B-GOS and where can I get it? Thanks, Addax.
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#6 Petunia

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 03:01 PM

 

Yes, thank you, Addax. How do you get B-GOS?


Ditto. What is B-GOS and where can I get it? Thanks, Addax.

 

 

It sounds promising, thanks Addax.  I found this:

 

http://www.medtritio...41209986f7a22c0

 

This link contains some discussion and other sources for purchase:

 

http://www.reddit.co...aking_cortisol/

 

edit:  I just ordered 30 sachets from the UK here:   https://www.bimuno.com/

 

Will start a topic in symptoms when I try it


Edited by Petu, 31 December 2014 - 03:47 PM.
added links and updated

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

 

My Introduction Thread

 

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

 

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety)

Xanax PRN

Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes animal25.gif

 

Supplements which seem to help:  High doses of Vitamin C, Magnesium, Garlic and Ginger.  Taurine, Vit D3, L-Theanine and Inositol. I'm one of the rare people who react badly to fish oil.

 

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

 

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 


#7 Addax

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:57 AM

I'm glad people found hope in this article. I know I did on two levels. Obviously the cortisol thing, but also the part about attending to more positive rather than negative information.

It does make sense given how much diet can influence mood, sleep, and energy levels. It also made me think about the fact that 90% of our Serotonin is in our gut and well... There's a lot of stuff in our gut.

Thank you for finding the resource to purchase, Petu!

Please post if you find the prebiotic helpful!
1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#8 Altostrata

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 01:52 PM

Note: Ingesting complex carbohydrates, such as legumes, that take a long time to digest can be calming to the nervous system as it keeps blood sugar stable. Low blood sugar generates adrenaline, cortisol's shorter-acting cousin.

 

Most of us probably wake up with lower blood sugar in the morning.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#9 Rhiannon

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:49 PM

I agree that the lower blood sugar in the morning contributes to the problem for me, but the actual constitution of the intestinal flora (what kinds of bacteria and how much of different kinds)--it is true from what research I've seen referenced that as they say "There is now compelling evidence for a link between enteric microbiota and brain function".  

 

I definitely notice it in myself and my own gutbrain. For me the diet that works best to keep it all calmed down is (unfortunately) a low-starch modified GAPs diet with minimal wheat (no wheat at all would probably be better but I don't have that much self-control).

 

Anyway, yes, if anyone tries the prebiotics, please let us know how it works for you. It would be nice to have something else to add to the arsenal, especially when I'm traveling and can't bring my kefir and don't have as many dietary options. I will probably try it myself, I'm just hesitant to spend money on yet another supplement after having thrown so many hundreds of dollars worth in the trash over the years.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#10 Rhiannon

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 01:09 PM

I took penicillin for two days last week and my gut is not happy. I think I'm going to try this stuff (in addition to being better about my diet, I went to visit my daughter over the weekend and had some sugar, which I can usually handle in small amounts but not so much right now!)


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#11 Addax

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 01:25 PM

A little more on B-GOS:

 

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2008 Nov (Vol. 88, no. 5, 1438-1446

Modulation of the fecal microflora profile and immune function by a novel trans-galactooligosaccharide mixture (B-GOS) in healthy elderly volunteers

 

Jelena Vulevic, Alexandra Drakoularakou, Parveen Yaqoob, George Tzortzis, and Glenn R Gibson.

 

Abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18996881 and Full text available at: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/5/1438.long

 

BACKGROUND:

Aging is associated with reduced numbers of beneficial colonic bifidobacteria and impaired immunity. Galactooligosaccharides (GOSs) stimulate the growth of bifidobacteria in younger adults, but little is known about their effects in the elderly and their immunomodulatory capacity.

 

OBJECTIVE:

We assessed the effect of a prebiotic GOS mixture (B-GOS) on immune function and fecal microflora composition in healthy elderly subjects.

 

DESIGN:

In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 44 elderly subjects were randomly assigned to receive either a placebo or the B-GOS treatment (5.5 g/d). Subjects consumed the treatments for 10 wk, and then went through a 4-wk washout period, before switching to the other treatment for the final 10 wk. Blood and fecal samples were collected at the beginning, middle (5 wk), and end of the test period. Predominant bacterial groups were quantified, and phagocytosis, natural killer (NK) cell activity, cytokine production, plasma cholesterol, and HDL cholesterol were measured.

 

RESULTS:

B-GOS significantly increased the numbers of beneficial bacteria, especially bifidobacteria, at the expense of less beneficial groups compared with the baseline and placebo. Significant increases in phagocytosis, NK cell activity, and the production of antiinflammatory cytokine interleukin-10 (IL-10) and significant reduction in the production of proinflammatory cytokines (IL-6, IL-1beta, and tumor necrosis factor-alpha) were also observed. B-GOS exerted no effects on total cholesterol or HDL-cholesterol production, however.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

B-GOS administration to healthy elderly persons resulted in positive effects on both the microflora composition and the immune response. Therefore, B-GOS may be a useful dietary candidate for the enhancement of gastrointestinal health and immune function in elderly persons.


1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#12 Brighid

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:24 PM

Very interesting! Might this product also be in keeping with the B-GOS used in the study? It's available via Amazon and looks like it may be less pricey--though I haven't tried to compare dose, etc: http://www.amazon.co...52V4TK0Z29DWMWZ


1990 - mid-2000s: on and off several ADs, including Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, and Wellbutrin. Many side-effects and hard withdrawals. 

1990 - mid-2000s: Klonopin 0.5 mg per day prn for sleep & anxiety.

mid-2000s - 2011: switched dosing to Klonopin 0.25 twice-daily for the above plus back pain (!) Never increased dose.

2011 - began taper with missteps; then @ 5% of current dose every 2 wks, using combo of pill and compounded liquid.

2012: yearlong hold at 0.165 bid to undergo specialized PT for pelvic floor syndrome, prob triggered by high muscle tone from taper.

2013: resumed taper @ 5% of current dose per month, from 0.165 down to 0.155 bid.

3/2013 - 6/2014: another year+ hold due to bad foot fracture & family trauma (sudden deaths).

6/2014 - 1/2015: resumed taper at 5% month; from 0.155 down to 0.125 bid (half original dose; or 1/4 of 0.5 tab). Held two months.

3/2015: Started 0.125 compounded tablets pure clonazepam, twice a day.

Supplements: fish oil, probiotics, cranberry, Vit C, Vit D, turmeric, magnesium powder, tablets, oil. Also occasional baby aspirin.

Exquisitely sensitive to meds. Working full time. In my late fifties. My intro thread:

http://survivinganti...-bump/?p=145214


#13 Addax

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 05:05 PM

To be honest, I'm not sure. It appears to have the GOS but you would be best off calling the manufacturer or doing a Google search on the product.

Petunia has started using Bimuno, so you may also want to check her thread for updates.
1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#14 btdt

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:49 AM

The ad for Bimuno  says it works in 7 days there seems to be many different products. I want it. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#15 mammaP

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 02:52 PM

I've ordered some, will report how it goes here after a couple of weeks. Hope it is good stuff, my gut is playing up  right now!


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#16 Addax

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:50 PM

I was just thinking I might order some now that I've begun tapering... I may wait to see what you and Petunia ultimately say about ti.
1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#17 Altostrata

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:23 PM

The types of prebiotics discussed in this article are commonly found in legumes.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#18 Addax

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:04 PM

Funny you say that. When I asked about them at the health food store the guy said sarcastically "you mean food?"

I suppose I could eat beans more often, but I don't like to cook and devolving a powder in liquid just seems easier. :-P
1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin.Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong.

My experience: http://rxisk.org/ant...a-prozac-story/

#19 Altostrata

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:15 PM

Lentils and split green peas work just as well.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#20 btdt

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:59 PM

For a long time I ate lentils at least twice a wk.. tossed with garlic and lemon.. craved them like mad before wd I had never eaten a lentil in my life. It was during my good time when I was dieting and cooking a lot and feeling so much better than now. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#21 btdt

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:44 AM

http://onlinelibrary...10.01664.x/full

 

The microbiome-gut-brain axis: from bowel to behavior

 

 

Behavioral and neurochemical consequences of growing up germ-free

Neufeld and colleagues in this issue of this Journal11 use female germ-free mice to demonstrate that the absence of a conventional microbiota results in a reduction in anxiety behavior in the elevated plus maze, a well validated model of anxiolytic action (see Fig. 1). These authors also show an upregulation in the expression of brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) mRNA in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus of these germ-free animals. Brain derived neurotrophic factor is crucial for supporting neuronal survival and encouraging the growth and differentiation of new neurons and synapses and thus is involved in the regulation of multiple aspects of cognitive and emotional behaviors.12 Whilst there is a clear relationship between chronic stress states, major depression and BDNF,13 the association between anxiety and BDNF appears to be more complex with the authors finding positive, negative and no correlation between hippocampal levels and anxiety.14–16 Thus, it is unclear whether the changes in hippocampal BDNF observed in the study of Neufeld and colleagues actually relates to the behavioral changes observed.

Interestingly, and somewhat discordant with the behavioral data, an increase in the stress hormone corticosterone was noted in the plasma of the germ-free mice. Moreover, a decrease in the NR2B subunit of the NMDA receptor in the amygdala, but not hippocampus, of germ-free animals was observed which the authors speculate may contribute to the anxiolytic-like effect noted. In addition, a down-regulation of the 5-HT1A auto receptor was also present in the dentate gyrus of the germ-free mice.11

These data together provide important and direct evidence that microbiota can influence brain and behavior, in this case anxiety. They build on previous studies from Sudo and colleagues17 which demonstrate that male germ-free mice have an increased stress response (although no basal changes in hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis function were noted in these studies) coupled with decreased hippocampal and cortical BDNF, and decreased NR1 (hippocampus) and NR2A (hippocampus and cortex).17 The reasons for the discrepancies between the molecular changes in these studies and that of Neufeld and colleagues are unclear at present. Gender may play a role in such effects. Indeed, recent data from our laboratory show that the neurochemical and endocrine but not immune effects of growing up in a germ-free environment is only evident in male animals.18 Another important difference between the studies is the method of mRNA expression analysis (in situ hybridization vs quantitative real-time PCR). One significant caveat to the data generated by Neufeld and colleagues is that their studies were carried out on commercially sourced germ-free animals and were conducted just 48 h following arrival at their facility. The impact of transport stress and the lack of information regarding gnotobiotic status are two major confounds to the study.19 Moreover, whereas Sudo and colleagues demonstrated that recolonization with Bifidobacteria species reversed the germ-free induced effects, no attempt at recolonization occurred in Neufeld et al.’s study. However, despite these limitations their work is among the first to show a direct link between anxiety-related behavior and the microbiota and thus is an exciting and important contribution to the literature.

Jump to… Probiotics and behavior/central neurotransmitters

Probiotics are beneficial in the treatment of the gastrointestinal symptoms of disorders such as IBS.20 Clinical evidence is mounting to support the role of probiotic intervention in reducing the anxiety and stress response as well as improving mood in IBS patients and those with chronic fatigue.21–23 Recently, a study assessing the effect of a combination of Lactobacillus helveticus and Bifidobacterium longum on both human subjects and rats showed that these probiotics reduced anxiety in animals and had beneficial psychological effects with a decrease in serum cortisol in patients.24 While the mechanism of action is not known, some probiotics do have the potential to lower inflammatory cytokines,20,25 decrease oxidative stress and improve nutritional status.21 The modulation of systemic inflammatory cytokines and oxidative stress could potentially lead to increased BDNF,21 known to be involved in depression and anxiety.13,14

Lactobacillus reuteri, a potential probiotic known to modulate the immune system26 decreases anxiety as measured on the elevated plus maze as well as reducing the stress-induced increase of corticosterone in mice.27 This probiotic alters the mRNA expression of both GABAAand GABAB receptors in the central nervous system. Alterations in these receptors are associated with anxious and depressive-like behaviors in animal models. Vagotomy in these animals prevented the anxiolytic and antidepressant effects of this bacterium as well as the effects on the central GABA receptors. This suggests that parasympathetic innervation is necessary for L. reuteri to participate in the microbiota-brain interaction.

Previous studies28 have shown that probiotic agents can modulate antidepressant-like behavior with Bifidobacterium infantis having antidepressant properties in the forced swim test, a well-established model in the evaluation of pharmacological antidepressant activity.29Chronic B. infantis administration also led to a suppression in stimulation-induced increases in peripheral pro-inflammatory cytokines and increases in plasma tryptophan,28 both of which have been implicated in depression.30,31 We have also investigated the impact of B. infantis on a preclinical model of IBS (maternal separation model)32 and showed that this bacterium was able to reverse some of the early-life stress-induced changes.

Taken together, it is clear that certain probiotic strains can modulate various aspects of the microbiome-gut-brain axis.33 However, these effects are bacterial strain dependent and care must be taken in extrapolating data obtained from one organism to another. Nonetheless, the accumulating data suggest a clear ability of probiotic and potential probiotic strains to modulate brain and behavior.

 

There is more at the link maybe this should have its own thread but seems related to me.. other might miss it by itself.  I was interested in L.Reuteri specifically as I have been researching probiotics for a couple of wks now.  While doing this research I have learned that Bifidobacterium infantis is the one a lot people with bowel issues find helpful.  While I was looking to find a probiotic to help with bowel issues I found the L. Reuteri probiotic hit a  lot more of my symptoms.  Including tooth issues as it apparently has the ability to kill bacteria in the gut ...heal the gut lining and is involved  in immune modulation. 

http://metabolicheal...cts-of-the-gut/

independently of the brain. The enteric nervous system of the gut is comprised of about 500 million neurons. The enteric nervous system can “think”, “remember” and “learn” on its own accord.

The enteric nervous system lines the mucosa of various organs: esophagus, stomach, small intestine, large intestine, pancreas, gall bladder, and biliary tree.

The ENS is involved in the regulation of several essential digestive functions. Most notably:

  • Peristalsis, intestinal motility: bowel muscular contractions
  • Digestive enzyme secretion: to break down food particles
  • Participates in the regulation of esophageal muscles: moving food to your stomach
  • Motility of the gall bladder, releasing bile into the duodenum
  • Assists the hormone secretin in releasing pancreatic enzymes
  • Exchange of fluids and electrolytes in the gut
  • Blood flow through the gastric mucosa
  • Also involved in the regulation of the gastic and esophageal sphincters: preventing acid food from entering the throat, and allowing food to pass into the duodenum from the stomach
  • Uses more than 30 neurotransmitters, including serotonin, GABA, dopamine, acetylcholine

Many researchers postulate that the enteric neurons have an important role to play in regulating behavior. This is likely due to the fact that the enteric nervous system communicates with the brain via the vagus nerve. It is known that strains of intestinal bacteria have a powerful regulatory effect on the enteric neurons. It is also known that these same bacterial colonies can induce behavior-modifying effects.

 “As Bifidobacterium longum decreases excitability of enteric neurons, it may signal to the central nervous system by activating vagal pathways at the level of the enteric nervous system.”

Lactobacillus reuteri has been studied for its anti-anxiety effects and for its powerful modulation of the immune system, especially the inhibition of TNF-a. Additionally, L-reuteri is well established to modify the activity of the neurotransmitter GABA in the central nervous system. The same is true for lactobacillus rhamnosous. 

 

L.Reuteri came out as the star for me personally it is found in breast milk and each species it is a bit different so has to come from human breast milk.  I am still a firm believer in trying only one thing at a time and now sourcing this BioGaia seems to be the only game in town.  So if I can find it I will be trying it and reporting back. 

 

"

Chemical and trauma-induced injury[edit]

Treating colonic tissue from rats with acetic acid causes an injury similar to the human condition ulcerative colitis. Treating the injured tissue with L. reuteri immediately after removing the acid almost completely reverses any ill effects,[52] leading to the possibility that L. reuteri may be beneficial in the treatment of human colitis patients."

http://en.wikipedia....acillus_reuteri

 

I was told I have antibiotic induced colitis so this is the one I am going to try first.  I will let you know what happens. 

This may need to be moved if so please put a link to where it goes to my page....thanks. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#22 Meimeiquest

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:58 AM

After not eating many legumes for awhile, I had them for lunch yesterday and woke up without anxiety this a.m. But it could just be where I am in tapering inositol. Supposedly legumes are best tolerated when soaked for days, changing water twice a day, and cooked in pressure cooker for high heat. Ideally sprouted, but I haven't been able to get regular non-organic beans to sprout.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#23 LoveandLight

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 02:46 PM

The Bimuno sachets, I was going to buy them and then realised they have lactose..so just to note that in here.
2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.


Nightmare that could have been avoided!

#24 westcoast

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:06 AM

Thanks. Good to know.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:


#25 btdt

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 06:08 PM

I am doing a running update on my page found in my signature at the bottom of this post 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#26 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:10 PM

This article is what got me taking high DHA fish oil, and I'm probably going to start taking turmeric as well.  Haven't been very disciplined (motivation is still low) about aerobic exercise.

 

 

http://integral-opti...sis-how-to.html

Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

Currently on 12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#27 fema4psychiatrists

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:16 PM

hell yeah im up for this! any product to recommend like someone asked above? thanks. Funny someone mentioned beans. I went on a bean diet by Karen hurd. I don't think it was helpful though due to restrictions and constant food prep. I used canned beans! 

 

any product recommendations? Im convinced the breaking of my intestines by medications is involved in this!


Cocktail drugged since 9

Genitals went numb

Extreme intestinal gas and pain

Extreme anxiety cant concentrate

All permanent

 

Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD)

http://pssdblog.blogspot.com


#28 fema4psychiatrists

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 02:28 PM

I've ordered some, will report how it goes here after a couple of weeks. Hope it is good stuff, my gut is playing up  right now!

Any news on how it went or going? 


Cocktail drugged since 9

Genitals went numb

Extreme intestinal gas and pain

Extreme anxiety cant concentrate

All permanent

 

Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD)

http://pssdblog.blogspot.com