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how to heal your mitochondria?


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#1 Phil

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:57 PM

Has this subject been discussed on here yet?

I just did a quick search to see if there's any connection between SSRIs and mitochondria, and here is what I found.

A study that suggests Prozac may damage mitochondria:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19135049

In contrast, fluoxetine seems to exert an additive toxic effect against neuronal cell damage by increasing mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress.


I also found a discussion on the subject here:

http://www.topix.com...Q28JNPL3K5DVSLT

This post is particularly interesting:

So far I have found medical research reports identifying 14 different kinds of serotonin receptors in the following organs:
- brain (confusion, brain fog, balance problems)
- lungs (did you stop breathing or breathe very slowly and later hypervnetilate?)
- kidneys (did you stop peeing and later having to go all the time? Are you sometimes full or water and sometimes dehydrated?)
- gastrointestinal tract (did your food "get stuck" and later you got diarrhea?)
Personally I won´t be surprised if I some time in the future find an article describing serotonin receptors in the liver. When I asked for strange blood test results on this and other boards I got quite a few "not enough liver enzymes" from people who have had this tested. Many also report very light stools indicating lack of bile and this has been objectively found in a woman I´m in touch with. No bile in her gall bladder after a large meal - it should have been full of it.
Now, with too little bile you can´t get rid of certain metabolic waste products and toxins. Without or with too little of certain liver enzymes you get metabolic diseases, various ones depending on which enzymes you have too few of, some can´t metabolize or correctly use fat, others protein, others amino acids, others food with lots of sulphur, others food that is porphyrogenic etc, etc. and the metabolic waste products make you sick.
if you get one or many of these problems to a certain extent you will start to feel bad every time your metabolism gets going like when you exercise etc.
If your have metabolic disorders or you circulation is bad you will also produce lots of lactic acid and there is a limit to how much lactic acid your body can take care of and get rid of. When you exercise even more will be produced and you will feel worse. People with mitochondrial diseases like for example MELAS syndrome (and to a certain extent also fibromyalgia which has lately been found to involve the mitochondria) are often completely intolerant to all exercise. I believe that the lactic acid is responsible for some of the awful withdrawal headache. Too much lactic acid can also cause seizures and sensitivity to electricity because the metals in the body migrate towards the surface. Can this be the reason for the "zaps"?)
and affecting the following processses:
- body temperature (hot and/or cold anyone? Fever? Too low temperature?)
- muscle tone (weak like a ragdoll or tightly pulling muscles anyone?)
- blood coagulation (many reports of blood clots in withdrawal and one person reported that her doctor said her platelets were "clumped together")
- immune system (candida and other opportunistic infections, I have candida, aspergillosis and herpes viruses in my blood )
- endocrine system (many report too much or too little of virtually every endocrine hormon they manange to have tested, so far I have seen cortisol, thyroid hormons, prolactin, insulin etc etc )
- circulation, function of the capillaries, blood vessel contraction and widening (did you turn very pale or very red during withdrawal? These things also affect blood pressure and depending on how you personally react you can get dangerously high or dangerously low BP leading to either stroke or chock.
- interaction with other transmittor substances ( so far I´ve found acethyl choline and dopamine and future research will probably be able to identify others as well and give us more insight into the mysteries of SSRI side effects and withdrawal phenomena).
The above is just a fraction of what I have found so far and my belief is that the withdrawal reactions are very.very complex and there is no way it can be explained by Paxil or any other SSRI remaining in the body, if it did we would have fewer problems.


^The bits I highlighted are problems I have in W/D.


There was also an article on Beyond Meds about meds and mitochondria:

http://beyondmeds.co...-major-culprit/

Medications have now emerged as a major cause of mitochondrial damage, which may explain many adverse effects. All classes of psychotropic drugs have been documented to damage mitochondria,


Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#2 Altostrata

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:03 PM

Interesting. What do you think it means?
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#3 Phil

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:25 PM

Hmm, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but perhaps that there is a link between withdrawal and mitochondria problems?
I've just been reading more on this and so many chronic fatigue symptoms sound very similar to withdrawal - things like exercise intolerance (as is being discussed in the "Exercise" thread).

This caught my eye too:

Effects on the Brain

In October 2007 I attended a conference sponsored by the late Dr John Richardson. A Canadian physician Dr Byron Hyde showed us some functional scans of the brains of CFS patients. If I had not known the diagnosis, I would have diagnosed strokes. This is because the blood supply to some area of the brain was so impaired. The default is temporary and with rest, blood supply recovers. However, this explains the multiplicity of brain symptoms suffered from, such as poor short term memory, difficulty multi-tasking, slow mental processing and so on. Furthermore, brain cells are not particularly well stocked with mitochondria and therefore they run out of energy very quickly.

from - http://www.drmyhill....ondrial_Failure

I have the highlighted problems.
I've also noticed I have short breathing, but this improves when I lie down. (another CFS symptom).
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#4 Altostrata

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 05:24 PM

I don't see the connecting thread between these ideas. Can you explain?
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#5 Phil

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:07 AM

I'm not sure if I know myself, haha. There just seems to be some similarities between chronic fatigue/mitochondria problems and withdrawal. Also, in the last post about blood supply to the brain - I can't help but think there are problems with impaired blood supply during withdrawal. Since I stopped my Lexapro a week ago, I had a feeling of my body and brain "shutting down" in some way, something changing physically, as if things weren't flowing properly. I'm not sure what can explain this?
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#6 Altostrata

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:36 PM

I believe the connection between withdrawal syndrome and chronic fatigue syndrome -- and fibromyalgia -- is that all have an autonomic dysregulation component for different reasons. Thus, the overlap in symptoms. The autonomic nervous system controls many, many operations in the body. Many disorders also affect those operations.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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#7 Zepplin2011

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

Has anyone tried coq10? From what I understand it can help with mitochondrial problems and I have had some good results so far. I am still having withdrawal issues and one of my biggest problems is fatigue which my be related to mitochondrial issues. So, since I started taking it (200mg on empty stomach) I have noticed and increase in energy and mood.
2004: Effexor
2006: Paxil
2008: Effexor
2009: Zoloft
2010: Celexa
October 2011: C/T Celexa 1 week

#8 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:01 AM

I started posting about mitochondria in 2008 and thought it was a the cause of the symptoms I had after taking prozac which I have never recovered from that is saying a lot since this was 24 years ago.  

I have done a lot of reading about mitochondria damage and still think these type of drug damage our mitochondria as do other drugs such as statins.  There is a website on the mitochondria damage caused by statin drugs... it is called spacedoc.come I believe.  The man who owns this site was a doctor looking after the health of astronauts for NASA so he was no slouch he had some contacts too.. he was damaged by statin drugs and went on a hunt for the cause and cure.  I found it a very interesting site... he has a book you can buy  but you can also talk to him if you like.  I have tried to swing his interests into looking at mito damage by ssri snri... drugs but I think his dance card is full.  


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#9 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:03 AM

PS I had a post on here about ssri snri causing chronic fatigue thru damage to the mitochondria I looked for it today and it is not here.  The article you found at topix about this subject was put there by me... there were many more they are all deleted now... lost years of work there when the site was closed down.  It was closed shortly after an article connecting all this was posted... yes wish I had a copy but I don't not much I can do about it now. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#10 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:05 AM

That last article I posted there on topix about mito damage and chronic fatigue caused by ssri... I posted it here too... that was only a few months ago.. one or two months I can't find it here now either... maybe I will look harder if I find it I will send you a private message as well as post it to this thread.


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#11 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:07 AM

This is the reason I came here today to post this... on the mito thread I started and can't find...

this article spoke to arginine too... 

http://en.wikipedia....#Growth_hormone

I think both taurine and arginine increase growth hormone.  

Both thesse supplements are suggested to improve mitochondrial function... interesting. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#12 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:11 AM

http://drmyhill.co.u...ondrial_Failure

 

Introduction

I think this is one of the most important handouts I have ever produced in terms of my understanding of CFS and what to do in order to recover! So please read this very carefully and several times over because for many sufferers it contains the keys to unlock their illness!

A very useful analogy is to think of the body as a car. What supplies the energy and the power to make that car work is the engine. Effectively mitochondria are the engines of our cells - they supply the energy necessary for all cellular processes to take place.

We are made up of lots of different cells - heart, blood, muscle nerve cells etc. All these cells are different because they all have a different job of work to do. To do this job of work requires energy. But the way in which energy is supplied is the same for every cell in the body. Indeed all animals share this same system. The mitochondria in my dog, my cat and my horse are exactly the same as mine. Mitochondria are a common biological unit across the animal kingdom. Energy is supplied to cells by mitochondria which I think of as little engines which power every cell in the body.

Chronic fatigue syndrome is the symptom caused by mitochondrial failure

The job of mitochondria is to supply energy in the form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). This is the universal currency of energy. It can be used for all sorts of biochemical jobs from muscle contraction to hormone production. When mitochondria fail, this results in poor supply of ATP, so cells go slow because they do not have the energy supply to function at a normal speed. This means that all bodily functions go slow.

Every cell in the body can be affected

The following explains what happens inside each cell:

ATP (3 phosphates) is converted to ADP (2 phosphates) with the release of energy for work. ADP passes into the mitochondria where ATP is remade by oxidative phosphorylation (ie a phosphate group is stuck on). ATP recycles approximately every 10 seconds in a normal person - if this goes slow, then the cell goes slow and so the person goes slow and clinically has poor stamina ie CFS.

Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine.

Indeed this is the biological basis of poor stamina. One can only go at the rate at which mitochondria can produce ATP. If mitochondria go slow, stamina is poor.

If ATP levels drop as a result of leakage of AMP, the body then has to make brand new ATP. ATP can be made very quickly from a sugar D-ribose, but D-ribose is only slowly made from glucose (via the pentose phosphate shunt for those clever biochemists out there!). This takes anything from one to four days. So this is the biological basis for delayed fatigue.

However there is another problem. If the body is very short of ATP, it can make a very small amount of ATP directly from glucose by converting it into lactic acid. This is exactly what many CFS sufferers do and indeed we know that CFS sufferers readily switch into anaerobic metabolism. However this results in two serious problems - lactic acid quickly builds up especially in muscles to cause pain, heaviness, aching and soreness ("lactic acid burn"), secondly no glucose is available in order to make D-ribose! So new ATP cannot be easily made when you are really run down. Recovery takes days!

When mitochondria function well, as the person rests following exertion, lactic acid is quickly converted back to glucose (via-pyruvate) and the lactic burn disappears. But this is an energy requiring process! Glucose to lactic acid produces two molecules of ATP for the body to use, but the reverse process requires six molecules of ATP. If there is no ATP available, and this is of course what happens as mitochondria fail, then the lactic acid may persist for many minutes, or indeed hours causing great pain. (for the biochemists, this reverse process takes place in the liver and is called the Cori cycle).

 

much more at the site I don't think it is the article I was looking for but it is a good article non the less... much more at the link.  

Many drugs can damage your mitochondria... many
 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#13 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

http://www.mitoactio...to Toxins_0.pdf

 

The link above is a list of drugs reported to cause damage to mito...

I am sure it is not complete.

 

Mitochondrial toxicity link 

http://www.mitoactio...ndrial-toxicity


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#14 Meimeiquest

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

Another interesting thought. When I try to go inside and ask myself why I have so little energy, especially after exercise, I think of mitochondria...in a mild kind of way. This chart says the mitochondrial damage from Prozac leads to our old companion, ANS dysfunction. I had a stress test after several years on Prozac (long story), and I was throwing PVCs all around, even before the test started. Dr. Said it was from lack of exercise, but I exercised almost every day...I had little ones and leaving them at the gym day care was my break...that I had to do late in the day because I felt good exercising and for an hour after, and then very tired for the rest of the day. Or maybe my sleep apnea was already in place, I don't know. What is clear is that almost all drugs have a downside.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#15 btdt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:44 PM

I agree most drugs have a downside it will be interesting when the sort out what the downsides are and tell us. I wonder how many downsides they know already that we do not hear of.  I was quite surprised to hear statin drugs cause this too so many people take them.  If the man at the spacedoc.com site did not have connections from his work at NASA I bet we would not know this yet either.   Bit by bit it comes to the light of day such a trickle it gets little notice I bet most people taking statins and prozac never heard of this side effect. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#16 btdt

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 12:06 PM

did a quick google... 

https://www.facebook...inoloneToxicity

http://www.abc15.com...ed-on-the-label

 

At the last link.. search the page for mitochondria... 

Prozac and a few other ssri drugs were known to cause damage to the mitochondria in humans several years ago as a lot of the ssri snri drugs we use today were not yet invented the old report I found 5 or so years ago could not have included newer drugs.  I would not be surprised to find other types of Ads have the same effect... many statin drugs have been found to cause the same sort of damage... if your interested you can find that at spacedoc.com or org... he was a doctors who worked for NASA who was affected and started research to figure that one out.. I was on a statin too.. will never take them again... or a quinoline... 

 

Seems it could that the common thread is damage to the mitochondria... I have made other posts about this sort of damage on P******.and here

 

 it was a post talking to a lady about mitochondria damage that was the last post I made on pp... it got me banned... that and the argument about it this lady named ... will fill in when I recall.. Anne... said she had been dx with mito damage and thought that was the cause of her fibro... and she seen a doc in the UK who said it was from ssri drugs... and she was being treated... so I about lost my nut when I heard from her as I thought I had found something to heal me maybe... but her and my posts from that day were all deleted... and I was banned I don't know if she was or not.  

I am wondering if this post above was in some way blocked from your thread as I did not see any acknowledgement and I think it could be important... please if you see it just acknowledge that it did in fact show up in the thread... thx

from this thread ...

http://survivinganti...nd-ptsd/page-10

Just making sure it gets posted in with the mitochondria information as to keep life simple...


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#17 Meimeiquest

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 12:25 PM

Hi Btdt, Being the reader that you are, you might Sara Myhill's book The Diagnosis and Treatment of CFS: it's Mitochondria, Not Hypochondria. She has a website with a lot of info. Many, many chemicals can interfere with mitochondrial function, especially In people who have small genetic mutations in the genes that program the enzymes that detoxify the cell. Modern life is taking a huge biological toll in so many ways. I think the increases in autism and autoimmune diseases highlight this problem.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#18 btdt

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 06:53 PM

Thanks I will check the link.. I do read a lot however I cannot retain the information like I once could the memory that once could not forget has big gaps of can't recall a thing it comes and goes or so it seems. 

 

As for damaged Mito cells and mutations the spacedoc guy thinks it is the drugs causing this too... 

"Now I have learned that the oxidizing tendency of oxygen in the air we breathe with its production of highly energetic radicals from our foodstuffs has necessitated the evolution of a powerful anti-oxidant system to minimize the oxidative damage suffered by our tissues and, more importantly, our mitochondrial DNA. 

The use of statins has resulted in compromise of the vital CoQ10 and dolichol elements of our antioxidant system, resulting in seriously increased oxidative damage and mitochondrial DNA mutations. The logical consequence of this is mitochondrial failure - insufficient mitochondria to supply the energy needs of the cell. The cell must die and with sufficient cell death comes tissue failure. 

So if this is a nerve cell we have lost it and perhaps thousands more helping to explain why so much of the statin damage is permanent. The same thing holds for muscle cells. With sufficient loss of muscle cells we permanently lose muscle strength. Same thing for the pancreas. With sufficient loss of pancreatic cells and their insulin producing islets of langherhan, pancreatic failure and permanent diabetes results. 

This helps greatly to explain why coQ10 does not help in some cases. Ultimately we have premature aging and the progressive development of such chronic conditions of aging as muscle weakness, burning pain, faulty coordination and failing memory - exactly the clinical picture we are seeing in tens of thousands of statin users. "


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#19 btdt

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 07:03 PM

http://www.thyroiduk...rah-Myhill.html

 

Interesting book I don't see any treatment here to tell you the truth... maybe I am just jaded or tired or fed up I have read countless books on the topic.  

Maybe it the supplements she has developed herself... 

"Nutritional supplements: Dr Myhill confirms that taking nutritional supplements is essential in the 21st century and outlines the rationale for this. She recommends a daily programme that includes the multi-mineral mix (MMM) that she has developed herself, with no bulking agents or preservatives, vitamins D and B12, plus an omega-3 supplement high in the essential fatty acid EPA, such as Igennus's Vegepa, or Biocare's MicroCell Essential Fatty Acids for vegetarians, with a high dose of vitamin C in the evening. MMM contains essential minerals such as calcium, zinc, potassium, iron, manganese, iodine boron magnesium, selenium and chromium."

 

Maybe I am so jaded I can't look at another "Cure" or "treatment" plan.  I just can't stomach it just now. maybe another time. 

Thanks for the thought tho... I have tried many things and many supplements and drugs maybe I am just done. I want a cure... a real one. 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#20 btdt

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 04:33 PM

Dr. Duane Graveline, MD, MPH

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Over 250 Articles - Listed by Category

Articles Main Menu

Dr. Duane Graveline, MD and others have submitted over 250 articles on Cholesterol, Statin Drugs and their Side Effects.

Statin Drugs Articles
Cholesterol Articles
Statin Drugs Side Effects Articles
 

Statin Books by Dr Duane Graveline MD, MPH

My first book, Lipitor®, Thief of Memory, was written after my two bouts of transient global amnesia (TGA) associated with the use of Lipitor® in the years 1999 - 2000. Predictably at that time, I was focused on cognitive dysfunction and Lipitor®. 

I soon realized the adverse reactions involved far more than impaired cognition, including personality change, myopathy, neuropathy and a chronic neuromuscular degeneration similar to ALS and all statins were contributing to these adverse reactions, not just Lipitor®. 

It was in this climate that I wrote my second book, Statin Drugs Side Effects. This is when I learned what reductase inhibition really meant. The reductase step blocked by statins was at the very beginning of the mevalonate pathway. 

This pathway to cholesterol synthesis is also shared by many extremely important biochemical substances, including coenzyme Q10, inhibition of which was the cause of many of these side effects.  

One cannot reduce cholesterol by the use of statins without simultaneously blocking these other biochemicals sharing the mevalonate pathway. My third book, theStatin Damage Crisis, was written to help people understand this. 

In attempting to explain why many statin drug side effects such as neuropathy and myopathy often tended to persist regardless of CoQ10 supplementation, I discovered something far more ominous was going on. 

Excessive CoQ10 inhibition was resulting in buildup of free radicals resulting in increased mitochondrial DNA damage and mutation, primary factors in how we age. Statin drugs were thereby enhancing aging. Statin associated CoQ10 inhibition was leading directly to increased mitochondrial DNA damage and premature senility. My fourth book that covers this is titled The Dark Side of Statins

 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#21 btdt

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 04:34 PM

CoQ10  was the first thing I heard to help mitochondria... hmm 

other ideas please


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#22 Meimeiquest

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 05:51 PM

I take a prescription med in my potion, Carnitor.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#23 btdt

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:50 PM

I take a prescription med in my potion, Carnitor.

This medication is a diet supplement used to prevent and treat low blood levels of carnitine

Is there a test to see if you have low levels of carntine?

Carnitine comes in 2 forms, this medication (levocarnitine) and D-carnitine. An over-the-counter product called vitamin Bt contains a mixture of levocarnitine and D-carnitine. Vitamin Bt should not be used to treat serious carnitine deficiency since it can interfere with the body's use of levocarnitine. Do not use levocarnitine...

Which form do you take?


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#24 ADropInTheOcean

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 03:45 AM

Glutathion (crucial) + Piperine + Co Q10 + L-Carnitine + PQQ + D-Ribose + NAC/Alpha Lipoic Acid + 1-2 grams of Vitamic C.
This repairs your cells and mito and helps nerve issues like neuropathy/nerve pain.

On various meds since 2004(Luvox, Paxil-5 years, Zoloft, Trazodone, etc) for anxiety.
CT Luvox 20th September 2013, started Klonopin 1mg (now on 0.25mg). Hellish depression, burning head, crying spells,extreme emotional rollercoaster, severe fibro-neuropathy like pains-never had any of this prior to meds. 31 months off and its worse and worse no life AT ALL.


#25 btdt

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:01 AM

Glutathion (crucial) + Piperine + Co Q10 + L-Carnitine + PQQ + D-Ribose + NAC/Alpha Lipoic Acid + 1-2 grams of Vitamic C.
This repairs your cells and mito and helps nerve issues like neuropathy/nerve pain.

Such a large amount of supplements some of them I have tried I should have kept a list of responses and I likely did on one or the other of my since then dead computers of the past 7 years. 

C I tried

glutathion I did not try as I react to everything.. so went the food route. 

Consume sulfur-rich foods. The main ones in the diet are garlic, onions and the cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, kale, collards, cabbage, cauliflower, watercress, etc.)  I tried taking a whey protein it made me feel worse not better. 

 

I will have to do this some other time as I have some type of hangover from too much of it already.. too much confusion and too many bad reactions my body seems to revolt with even thinking about it.. saying I can't take anymore tweaking :( 

This is just me and this is just now... I will be back.  

please keep adding what has worked for you... only if it worked 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#26 Meimeiquest

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:06 AM

I think the biggest things are eliminating toxins (chemicals), trans fats, and sugar. And exercise as tolerated as it stimulates the development of new mitos.

Re: Carnitor....I take tiny doses of the prescription version
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#27 btdt

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 08:15 PM

I think the biggest things are eliminating toxins (chemicals), trans fats, and sugar. And exercise as tolerated as it stimulates the development of new mitos.

Re: Carnitor....I take tiny doses of the prescription version

Does the Carnitor work?  Do you feel different, better?


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#28 Meimeiquest

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 06:16 AM

It is only a little, 50 mg twice a day, included in compounded capsules with all sorts of stuff in them, so I don't know. But before I started dropping my benzo so hard, I had times when I felt 100% well. Even though I am still very overweight. I'm just "OK" right now, but I dropped 50% of my total benzo dose in two months, so I count that as amazing. Fatigue was my original symptom to start ADs for (although it wasn't bad enough to see a dr., he prescribed it when I was in for strep throat. I have always gone to very helpful doctors, lol).
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#29 btdt

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 07:39 PM

Fatigue would that not be a symptoms of strep throat?  I get you had fatigue before the strep just being a pain.  I hope it works out well for you in the end.  

As with all thing we never know what a drug or supplement is doing when we start it with other drugs or supplements. I guess sometimes we take a leap of faith and hope for the best.  

I don't have a risk taking bone left in my body at this point I have over learned the routine of reactions. I look at some of the supplements suggested know I have some of them in my stockpile and think of it for a minute .. it passes.  I don't think I have overcoming another reaction in me at this particular moment.  


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#30 WiggleIt

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 02:20 PM

I think the biggest things are eliminating toxins (chemicals), trans fats, and sugar. And exercise as tolerated as it stimulates the development of new mitos.

Re: Carnitor....I take tiny doses of the prescription version


I have known for a long time that exercise stimulates new mito growth, as well as brain growth (gray matter, etc.), which is why I'm devastated that I can't exercise right now because of myoclonic jerking all over body.

-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in October 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014, off-label for pain

-Meds were prescribed for an "autoimmune chronic pain disease."  It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but did not find out until AFTER meds had caused total damage.  All med tapers & cold turkeys directed by doctors 

-Nortriptyline from May 2012 - Dec 2013

-Desipramine from Jan 2014 - October 2014. 60 mg reduced by 10 mg each month. Held 30 mg for 3 months. Rapid taper over 1 week from 30 mg down to 20, 10, 0

-Lorazepam 1 mg per night in 2011. In 2012, used 1 mg per month or less.  Lorazepam on & off Dec 2013 - Aug 2014, did not exceed 1.5 mg, did not exceed 3x a week

-On desipramine had muscle tremors & rigidity. Were they side effects or withdrawal effects as I reduced desip throughout 2014? Or was I in WD from nortrip as I was on desip? First muscle/dystonia side effects started on nortriptyline, but docs were too stupid to help me figure it out

-Last dosage desip 10 mg on Oct. 29, 2014. Last dose lzpam 1 mg, Nov. 2, 2014. Paradoxical reactions to benzos after quitting TCAs

-Tardive dystonia, dyskinesia, myoclonic jerks ALL over body, ribcage wiggles, facial tics, twitching tongue & fingers, tremors/twitches of arms, legs, cognitive impairment, throat muscles semi-paralyzed & unable to swallow solid food, brain zaps, ears ring, dizzy, everything looks too far away, insomnia, numbness & electric shocks everywhere when I try to fall asleep, jerk awake from sleep with big, gasping breaths, wake with terrors & tremors, severely depressed.  NO HISTORY OF DEPRESSION, EVER. Meds CREATED it.

-Month 7 off meds: hair falling out; no improvement in vision; still tardive dystonia; facial & tongue tics returned
-Month 8 off meds: thrown back to acute, including Grand Mal seizure-like episodes. New mental torment, PGAD, worse insomnia
-Month 9 off meds: tardive dystonia worsened, dyskinesia returned. Unable to breathe well due to dystonia in stomach, chest, throat.
-Month 13 off meds: Back to total acute, brain zaps back, plus developed eczema & stomach problems. Left leg no longer works right due to dystonia, meaning both legs are now damaged


#31 Altostrata

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 09:46 AM

merged similar topics


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#32 justwanttobefree

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 02:49 PM

Oh my god, I have been having severe fatigue and neck pain the past few weeks in addition to the total brain fog, confusion, depression etc. and I was on Prozac :'( If my mitochondria are damaged will they heal themselves? Oh god there are so many things that could be wrong inside me and I'll never get better. It's never ending <\3
Diagnosed: Pure O Ocd, Severe Anxiety Disorder NOS, PMDD

November 2009 - May 2013- CIPRALEX 20mg
C/T off 20mg Cipralex
Went into dark depression (never experienced before med)
September 2013 - March 2014- PROZAC 20mg
Weaned down to 10mg and held
October 1st 2014 C/T off 10mg Prozac
Protracted withdrawal - 8 months of the most horrific suffering imaginable
June 1st 2015 - ZOLOFT 25mg
June 26th 2015 - Dose increase to 50mg of Zoloft (taken at night after dinner). Slowly improving but still have severe OCD/ruminating, intense DP/DR, and brain fog. Just trying to stabilize at this point.

#33 Meimeiquest

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:17 PM

Highly recommend The Wahls Protocol by Terry Wahls MD. It is an update on her first book, Minding Your Mitochondria. I believe she has a TEDS talk on YouTube but I haven't looked it up.

 

moderator edit: Youtube video, 17 min 46 sec,

http://youtu.be/KLjgBLwH3Wc

Edited by scallywag, 25 September 2016 - 07:53 AM.
added Youtube link

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#34 btdt

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:31 PM

Glutathion (crucial) + Piperine + Co Q10 + L-Carnitine + PQQ + D-Ribose + NAC/Alpha Lipoic Acid + 1-2 grams of Vitamic C.
This repairs your cells and mito and helps nerve issues like neuropathy/nerve pain.

Where did you come up with this list ADTO?  

I read something about glutathion can't be used directly by the body ... wish I had the money to try them all and the courage. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#35 btdt

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:32 PM

Highly recommend The Wahls Protocol by Terry Wahls MD. It is an update on her first book, Minding Your Mitochondria. I believe she has a TEDS talk on YouTube but I haven't looked it up.

I did buy his book and here it sits. I have not watched the video... I can't gather much from the book but that may well be me.... and my disabilities. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#36 btdt

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:51 PM

oh I watched it before and posted it here 

it was this video that started me on my big diet... before the car accident I had.

 

Food as medicine fish oil care-teen and co enzyme she 

she learned at functional med school or courses B1 B9 B12 omega 3 fatty acids and iodine... bit b6 and sulfer and antoxidents ...all from food

She says we are all starving ourselves and setting the stage for chronic disease. 

 

Food plan for brain and mitochondria 

 

 

Dinner plate heaped high with veggies... leaves roots berries and fish hunter gatherer food 

here is her plan. 

3 cups of leaves kale parsley greens

3 cups of sulfer rich veggies a day cabbage broccoli  turnips onions leeks mushrooms asparagus  

3 cups of different colors beets carrots berries peaches oranges

protein rich in fatty acids wild fish salmon herring and grass fed meat every day organ meat... liver kidney heart tongue gizzards 

seaweed for iodine and Selenium... ?  removes toxins most are low have seaweed once a wk

 

9 cups of veggies and berries every day... before grain potatoes or dairy 

 

Nov 2007 she used two canes could not walk that is when she designed this diet she became a modern day hunter gather in 3 months she could walk with one cane in 5 months she rode her bike 9 months she peddled 18 miles... following year she did a trail ride in I think she said the Rockies.... 

 

I am sure I missed some foods.


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)