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how to heal your mitochondria?


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#37 Meimeiquest

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 05:20 AM

That's the crux of it, bt. But hard, especially given that accident and now all the infections. I really wish you had someone to help take care of you! I wonder if it would help you to just focus on the sulfur-rich veggies. Before I read this, I was probably doing three cups of leafy greens and 3 of colorful fruits and veggies a day. Maybe...I wasn't counting. But adding in all that surphur gave me an afternoon headache for three days, so it must have been doing something special. The mitochondria topic is pretty complicated, but I am getting the idea that some people don't clear toxins as well as they should from the mitochondria and it gums up the energy production. Chemicals of any kind, including drugs, can add to the problem. SOD (an enzyme programmed by a gene) can be involved. Exercise helps to epigenetically stimulate the SOD system (Perlmutter). I think sulphur is key in its detoxing action, somehow. I suspect one sister and I have mild issues in this area. Mild until chemicals, that is.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#38 Damienpryan

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 07:24 PM

Hi All,

 

Not sure if d-ribose needs a thread of it's own.

I'm having good success with 5mg d-ribose 3 times a day to give energy.

 

(Of course it just might be me or a minority that react well to it.

 And it is sometimes hard to tell with me as my moods can go up and down).

 

Still if you are wanting to try a supplement a cheap and easy supplement it might be worth a try.

Especially if restless leg or chronic fatigue are involved.

 

Cheers

 

Damien 


Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 


#39 btdt

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:42 AM

That's the crux of it, bt. But hard, especially given that accident and now all the infections. I really wish you had someone to help take care of you! I wonder if it would help you to just focus on the sulfur-rich veggies. Before I read this, I was probably doing three cups of leafy greens and 3 of colorful fruits and veggies a day. Maybe...I wasn't counting. But adding in all that surphur gave me an afternoon headache for three days, so it must have been doing something special. The mitochondria topic is pretty complicated, but I am getting the idea that some people don't clear toxins as well as they should from the mitochondria and it gums up the energy production. Chemicals of any kind, including drugs, can add to the problem. SOD (an enzyme programmed by a gene) can be involved. Exercise helps to epigenetically stimulate the SOD system (Perlmutter). I think sulphur is key in its detoxing action, somehow. I suspect one sister and I have mild issues in this area. Mild until chemicals, that is.

I am allergic to sulpha drugs I wonder if that has anything to do with it. My diet is not what it should be and not what it once was.  It seems the money and will to do this has been lost and I know that is my own fault. Yes I know.. I am trying to save money to move with having to move a lot of things have shifted to the back burner... at the rate I am going I can't find a place I can afford to pay for and eat not yet anyway so diet certainly has taken a back burner with not much hope of it reaching forward anytime soon. 

I know instinctively that your right I know food is the way to go... recently out of pure desperation I bought some supplements tho I have two cupboards full that I cannot take... I have vitamin E 400mg ordered by the liver doc... now added phosphatidyl choline 420mg and thiamine... the last two together I read may help heal the bbb I know it may be a crock... but I am trying. cost about 35$ for a months supply.  The same article said to eat eggs raw... gag.. I can barely get them down when they are cooked hard as a rock... I am not sure but I could not keep eggs down as a child either. There is a white bit in the egg when it is raw I was told a lot of people who have allergy to eggs are allergic to that bit so I take it out since I learned this and can tolerate them a lot better this way.  As a kid and adult it was eggs in eggs out.. an automatic reaction.. often times to things I actually like that has a lot of egg. 

 There is no way I could eat raw eggs.. I just can't they will not stay in anyway... my body and I now agree don't even try. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#40 btdt

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:52 AM

Hi All,

 

Not sure if d-ribose needs a thread of it's own.

I'm having good success with 5mg d-ribose 3 times a day to give energy.

 

(Of course it just might be me or a minority that react well to it.

 And it is sometimes hard to tell with me as my moods can go up and down).

 

Still if you are wanting to try a supplement a cheap and easy supplement it might be worth a try.

Especially if restless leg or chronic fatigue are involved.

 

Cheers

 

Damien 

I have heard of this before from the chronic fatigue forums in the past I think it helps with energy.  Supposedly a type of sugar.. I think I may be wrong.. I have spent my money for fooling around this month on other supplements you can see in the above post. I may try it later thanks for the idea. 

If you should stop taking ever and go back on that is one sure way to see if it was helping at all... if you happen to come back please and post the results. I am thinking of doing exactly this with the two new supplements I am trying.  Tho I know it is not good to start two things at the same time I was overwhelmed by chemicals sensitivity issues and always feeling sick. 

Mostly from one person I live with who used a lot of hair dye almost wkly in the bath ... nail polish and remover perfumed soaps hair spray... I know I use to be one of those women too.. loved it all.. get gussied up... loved it but now all that makes me ill. 

Oddly enough the same time I tried these supplements she went to house sit so I had not only supplements but a free area to breath in.. win win... got some of the chemcial issues cleared up but she is back... found myself trying to clean hair dye out of the bath tub yesterday... I wish she would clean up after her self she does not seem to notice... why not if somebody else will clean it... 

For me it is immediate she dyes her hair in there I don't even get  to the door I have a headache... that will stay till some time after the chemicals are cleaned out of there... 

I am sorry this has turned into a complaining post it is not meant that way... it is just stating the facts. I don't know how long it may take for this to work I am in my second wk.. not sure it is mitochondria I am dealing with in repairing the blood brain barrier either... it is all a crap shoot just now. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice to have some research.. some answers some cure. I know may as well sing the Beetles song wouldn't it be nice.. :) 

peace all and thanks for the ideas 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#41 btdt

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:41 AM

How is your liver?

 

I have fatty liver disease and a rate of fibrosis .. tested by a new test between 2-3 I don't trust the test at this point.. so won't say much about it. 

 

Today I learned this beets the only source of betaine .. if you look up phytochemcials in food. 

https://en.wikipedia...emicals_in_food

search beets.. which I craves when this first started... betalains...  Betaine helps convert homocysteine into methionine, conversion of choline to betaine, betaine is believed to have a hepato-protective effect [50].

 

Choline is an important part of the mitochondrial membrane and mitochondrial dysfunction is a central mechanism in the pathogenesis of NAFLD [32]. Low choline may be important in NAFLD pathophysiology because it perturbs mitochondrial bioenergetics [14] and fatty acid beta oxidation [42]. Choline deficiency alters the composition of mitochondrial membranes; cardiolipin in these membranes is oxidized, and membrane concentrations of phosphatidylethanolamine and phosphatidylcholine are decreased [4344]. These membrane changes result in mitochondrial decreased membrane potential [1445] and in reduced activity of complex I of the respiratory chain [4446]. Decreased ATP production by mitochondria occurs in rats fed a choline deficient diet [47] or a choline-methionine deficient diet [48]. Proteins involved in choline metabolism and transport also influence mitochondrial function. CHDH is a mitochondrial matrix protein that catalyzes the conversion of choline to betaine. Mice with deleted Chdh have abnormal mitochondrial function in multiple tissues [34]. Interestingly, CHDH is upregulated in the mitochondrial proteome of rats with fatty liver induced by alcohol [49]. This could be a compensatory response, since betaine is believed to have a hepato-protective effect [50].

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3601486/

title 

Choline Metabolism Provides Novel Insights into Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and its Progression

Phospphatidyl could help... I guess i will find out. 

Eat your beets :)

 

Betalains[edit]

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#42 btdt

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:52 PM

from another forum

Hey Again,

Great to hear you are in \"remission\" as well Maff... I never dreamt I'd see any improvement in my life for over 3 years.

I \"noticed\" the PPC having an effect on my MCS within a month after I started on it. This after trying about everything under the sun from the health food store! I still felt every little encounter with VOC/vapor at work and while out and about, but the dreaded sickness and brain fog in particular faded nicely. I had started on Benfotiamine and thiamine HCL (the Life Extension formula) shortly after the PPC, so it's hard to tell which really did the most to help me.

It took about 6 months before I was walking into situations that in past years would have filled me with DREAD, without worrying about it too much. I'm one year out on both the PPC and Benfotiamine/Thiamine HCL now, and am now quite fearless about working with the disinfectants at work, (though I still notice them!)

I'm also taking NAC, Molybdenum, TMG, SAM-e, Chromium, Zinc, Magnesium, Acetyl L-Carnitine, and Alpha Lipoic Acid, as well as the B-Complex. I really feel it is the PPC/Benfotiamine/Magnesium triad that were the magic bullets for me. All mitochondrial support supplements!

A great book on mitochondrial issues: \"Power, Sex, Suicide; Mitochondria and the Meaning of Life\" (Paperback) by Nick Lane. In this book, he talks about how most oxidative stress actually occurs within the cell itself at the mitochondrial level, and how \"mitochondrial membrane support\" can actually be more effective than systemic antioxidants at reducing oxidative stress. Mitochondrial membranes are made largely of phospholipids, and phosphatidylcholine/PPC is what makes them strong!

Too bad there is no doctor willing to write this up and spread the word about an effective therapy, but mine just roll their eyes when I talk to them about this.

 

Study

 


\"In rodent TD (Thiamine deficiency), the earliest region-specific pathological change is breakdown of the blood-brain barrier (BBB)\".

\"Within 2-3 weeks of decreased intake and thiamine depletion, areas of the brain with the highest thiamine content and turnover will demonstrate cellular impairment and injury. The main consequence of these metabolic changes is the loss of osmotic gradients across cell membranes. The earliest biochemical change is the decrease in a-ketoglutarate-dehydrogenase activity in astrocytes. Additional findings include increased astrocyte lactate and edema, increased extracellular glutamate concentrations, increased nitric oxide from endothelial cell dysfunction, DNA fragmentation in neurons, free radical production and increase in cytokines, and breakdown of the blood brain barrier\".


Astrocytes are cells in the lining of the brain that \"support\" the blood brain barrier, which is responsible for keeping environmental toxins away from the brain... Apparently, this is a rather demanding task and consumes a lot of energy which is supplied by the mitochondria, of which astrocytes are quite rich in. I had tried all kinds of supplements for my MCS, including thiamine, but until I tried Phosphatidylcholine (PPC) nothing had worked. Phosphatidylcholine repairs mitochondrial membranes (which are comprised largely of phospholipids) and gets the mitochondria (and astrocytes) working properly again.

What I learned about thiamine is, that although it is common in all multivitamins and many foods, getting it through the membranes in your gut and into a usable form is not always an easy task. The vitamins I was taking advertised 100 milligrams of thiamine... 6667% of the minimum daily requirement! Hard to believe a deficiency could occur, however, getting even one milligram of usable thiamine into your blood is dependant on many factors such as the presence of \"antithiamine factors\" and \"Thiaminases\" as well as the Ph (acid/alkaline) of the gut.


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#43 JanCarol

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:21 AM

Tonight I saw on our ABC's science show, "Catalyst" (I have recently discovered that their reporter Maryann DeMasi did a report on the harm caused by antidepressant drugs, but the Australian Medical Association got it pulled for being "unbalanced reporting" - she also did the 2 part report on statins that was so groundbreaking, and it got banned - but only AFTER it went to air!)

 

The reporter was Anja Taylor (Maryann has gotten into too much trouble with her medical reports) on HIT - High Intensity Interval Training.

 

It talked about 6 minutes a week (in 3x 20 minute sessions) of HIT can:

improve collagen

improve insulin resistanct

remove visceral (organ) fat

reduce stress on liver

improve cardio

improve endurance

improve muscle strength

and (here's the big one)

MAKE THE MITOCHONDRIA WORK BETTER!!!!!

 

Here is the iView Link - it will change in a month's time, and I'll try and update it to the archive link.  But this is too important not to put it out there.  I looked for a topic on metabolic syndrome here, but couldn't find one, so, until I find an appropriate place for it on SA, I'll keep it here on my thread.  This looks like vitally important stuff for regaining your health - AFTER recovery from withdrawal (I don't recommend HIT for people in withdrawal)

 

http://www.abc.net.a...ies/4463644.htm

(this link will go bad in a month - I'll try and remember to update it - but if I fail, please PM me so I can correct it - this is in "current viewing" - when it moves to "archive" the link will be permanent)

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#44 btdt

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:29 AM

 

Tonight I saw on our ABC's science show, "Catalyst" (I have recently discovered that their reporter Maryann DeMasi did a report on the harm caused by antidepressant drugs, but the Australian Medical Association got it pulled for being "unbalanced reporting" - she also did the 2 part report on statins that was so groundbreaking, and it got banned - but only AFTER it went to air!)

 

The reporter was Anja Taylor (Maryann has gotten into too much trouble with her medical reports) on HIT - High Intensity Interval Training.

 

It talked about 6 minutes a week (in 3x 20 minute sessions) of HIT can:

improve collagen

improve insulin resistanct

remove visceral (organ) fat

reduce stress on liver

improve cardio

improve endurance

improve muscle strength

and (here's the big one)

MAKE THE MITOCHONDRIA WORK BETTER!!!!!

 

Here is the iView Link - it will change in a month's time, and I'll try and update it to the archive link.  But this is too important not to put it out there.  I looked for a topic on metabolic syndrome here, but couldn't find one, so, until I find an appropriate place for it on SA, I'll keep it here on my thread.  This looks like vitally important stuff for regaining your health - AFTER recovery from withdrawal (I don't recommend HIT for people in withdrawal)

 

http://www.abc.net.a...ies/4463644.htm

(this link will go bad in a month - I'll try and remember to update it - but if I fail, please PM me so I can correct it - this is in "current viewing" - when it moves to "archive" the link will be permanent)

 

High Intensity Interval Training.

 

I can't walk all the time I shake and wobble but I will keep this in mind for when I get better. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#45 btdt

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:50 AM

I believe the connection between withdrawal syndrome and chronic fatigue syndrome -- and fibromyalgia -- is that all have an autonomic dysregulation component for different reasons. Thus, the overlap in symptoms. The autonomic nervous system controls many, many operations in the body. Many disorders also affect those operations.

"Certain medications interact with mitochondrial DNA and inhibit the creation of protein complexes necessary for ATP production. Other medications block metabolic pathways that interfere with the way fats and carbohydrates are utilized. By indirect means, some medications promote oxidative stress, which damage mitochondria and deplete antioxidants like glutathione. It is believed that many side effects from medications are due to mitochondrial insult."

http://www.drcourtne...hondrial-damage


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#46 btdt

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:19 PM

http://www.solacenut...s-in-adults.pdf

 

This if from 2001 and straight up it states drugs cause damage to our mitochondria and our mitochondria DNA.... 

"Mitochondrial cytopathies are a diverse group of inherited and acquired disorders that result in inadequate energy production. They can be caused by inheritable genetic mutations, acquired somatic mutations, exposure to toxins (including some prescription medications), and the aging process itself. In addition, a number of well-described diseases can decrease mitochondrial energy production; these include hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, and hyperlipidemia."

For years I ran around wd sites yelling mitochondria .... got a lot of flack for it too... :( and long before then this was all known... how could that be... whatever... can't be getting offended and sad when there are mitochondria to heal that solves nothing.. so next.....

 

 

I don't know if this is of any use or not it is old...

used in mitochondrial diseases SUPPLEMENT DAILY DOSE COMMENTS Coenzyme Q10 5–15 mg/kg in divided doses Variable gastrointestinal absorption dependent on formulation Maximal benefit may take months L-carnitine 30–100 mg/kg in divided doses Prescription brand Carnitor IV and oral preparations available Thiamine (vitamin B1) 100–800 mg Riboflavin (vitamin B2) 400 mg Niacinamide (vitamin B3) 100–500 mg Avoid niacin form, as it can cause uncomfortable flushing Folate 1–10 mg Vitamin E 400–1200 IU in divided doses May interfere with CoQ10 absorption Selenium 25–50 µg Lipoic acid 200–600 mg in divided doses Prednisone 5–60 mg Symptomatic improvement noted on patients, but should be used sparingly as withdraw

 

I have been taking a lot of supplements.. B1 for sure without it I am brain dead thinking of increasing the dose... added D ribose an expensive type called corvalen ribose... it is like crack to me... I think I used that term right.... 

maybe not

I feel good when I take and know when it wears off... and I am not sure I like it as I feel dependant and I don't appreciate that it reminds me of addiction to ADs... 

Label says it can be taken for 8 wks... 

 

I am also taking vit E C a long list I am too lazy to write... I have reread this thread tonight and am going to try from post above 

 

"I tried Phosphatidylcholine (PPC) nothing had worked. Phosphatidylcholine repairs mitochondrial membranes (which are comprised largely of phospholipids) and gets the mitochondria (and astrocytes) working properly again."

 

 

I read a book about multiple chemical sensitivity called 

 

12000 canaries can't be wrong John Molot MD

 

he is heading a task force on cfs me and mcs here in Canada it started May 2016 will last 3 years

 

he suggests these supplements 

 

Co-Q10 150-300mg *

alpha lipoic acid 600mg I am taking R type and don't know what the difference is yet.... 

L caritine 500 - 3000mg

mag 400-800mg * not that much am amazed I am not reacting badly as I always have fingers crossed 

NAC 500mg * hit and miss

"when we want to promote mitochondrial biogenesis 

resveratrol 40 mg 3x day * 1 a day

quercitin 100mg 1-3 x day* 1a day

 

also frequently add 

melatonin 3-9 mg

fish oil 3 fatty acids 

curcumin /turmeric 1,200 mg 

creatine to enhance energy

 

I am taking the ones with a star 

 

 

love that D ribose he did not mention... 5g 3x day

 

vit e 400mg * 

vit C 500,mg * x2

glutathione 100 depends on the day*

Glycine 1000 mg * when I have a reaction (shaking jerking too stupid to move can't get up) vit C and taurine too... sometimes

 

Tried cod liver oil for 3 days threw it up for 3 days quit... enough already... tried fish oil bad gut quit it too maybe another brand....?

the last ones he mentions I can't tolerate... 

 

yes I am still lost in the woods but there are two things no three that work for me D ribose only brand I have ever tried is corvalen.... B1 they will have to pry that from my dead hand..... magnesium... using the calm version and not reacting badly like I use to could I be healing something... I wonder. 

 

Because I have a movement disorder now and if I get around smells I shake and have to go to bed sometimes for a wk... and I know B1 helps me I looked up B1 and movement disorders... ya long shot and I got a hit.... 

 

biotin-thiamine-responsive basal ganglia disease - Genetics Home ...

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/.../biotin-thiamine-responsive-basal-ganglia-disea...
  1.  
Biotin-thiamine-responsive basal ganglia disease is a disorder that affects the nervous system, including a group of structures in the brain called the basal ...

 

 

Just one link of many I read... kind of read not so hot at reading I did not read the entire 12,000 canaries either I can't... not now... but it is interesting isn't it .... 

 

I am going to add biotin cause I take lepoic acicd the R one.. and if you are keep this in mind...

 

"The chronic administration of lipoic acid reduces the activities of biotin-dependent pyruvate carboxylase and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase; enzyme activities remain normal if biotin at pharmacological doses is administered together with lipoic acid. Even without supplemental biotin, the decreases in enzyme activities are not dramatic and would presumably not cause pathology in patients."R However, this last conclusion is likely made for moderate doses of aLA and biotin is so importantR that it should probably be supplemented for dosages of aLA above 50 mg daily.

 

Yes I was going to read all of that to see the difference between ALA RALA ect but got side tracked... 

 

hope some of this works for some of you... 

 

Peace all B


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#47 btdt

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:27 PM

Avoid chemicals off all sorts avoid breathing them buy a mask... 

This has made the biggest improvement to my health this year...

 

https://www.amazon.c...sl_3d9wec11bb_b


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#48 btdt

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:43 PM

from another forum

Hey Again,

Great to hear you are in \"remission\" as well Maff... I never dreamt I'd see any improvement in my life for over 3 years.

I \"noticed\" the PPC having an effect on my MCS within a month after I started on it. This after trying about everything under the sun from the health food store! I still felt every little encounter with VOC/vapor at work and while out and about, but the dreaded sickness and brain fog in particular faded nicely. I had started on Benfotiamine and thiamine HCL (the Life Extension formula) shortly after the PPC, so it's hard to tell which really did the most to help me.

It took about 6 months before I was walking into situations that in past years would have filled me with DREAD, without worrying about it too much. I'm one year out on both the PPC and Benfotiamine/Thiamine HCL now, and am now quite fearless about working with the disinfectants at work, (though I still notice them!)

I'm also taking NAC, Molybdenum, TMG, SAM-e, Chromium, Zinc, Magnesium, Acetyl L-Carnitine, and Alpha Lipoic Acid, as well as the B-Complex. I really feel it is the PPC/Benfotiamine/Magnesium triad that were the magic bullets for me. All mitochondrial support supplements!

A great book on mitochondrial issues: \"Power, Sex, Suicide; Mitochondria and the Meaning of Life\" (Paperback) by Nick Lane. In this book, he talks about how most oxidative stress actually occurs within the cell itself at the mitochondrial level, and how \"mitochondrial membrane support\" can actually be more effective than systemic antioxidants at reducing oxidative stress. Mitochondrial membranes are made largely of phospholipids, and phosphatidylcholine/PPC is what makes them strong!

Too bad there is no doctor willing to write this up and spread the word about an effective therapy, but mine just roll their eyes when I talk to them about this.

 

Study

 


\"In rodent TD (Thiamine deficiency), the earliest region-specific pathological change is breakdown of the blood-brain barrier (BBB)\".

\"Within 2-3 weeks of decreased intake and thiamine depletion, areas of the brain with the highest thiamine content and turnover will demonstrate cellular impairment and injury. The main consequence of these metabolic changes is the loss of osmotic gradients across cell membranes. The earliest biochemical change is the decrease in a-ketoglutarate-dehydrogenase activity in astrocytes. Additional findings include increased astrocyte lactate and edema, increased extracellular glutamate concentrations, increased nitric oxide from endothelial cell dysfunction, DNA fragmentation in neurons, free radical production and increase in cytokines, and breakdown of the blood brain barrier\".


Astrocytes are cells in the lining of the brain that \"support\" the blood brain barrier, which is responsible for keeping environmental toxins away from the brain... Apparently, this is a rather demanding task and consumes a lot of energy which is supplied by the mitochondria, of which astrocytes are quite rich in. I had tried all kinds of supplements for my MCS, including thiamine, but until I tried Phosphatidylcholine (PPC) nothing had worked. Phosphatidylcholine repairs mitochondrial membranes (which are comprised largely of phospholipids) and gets the mitochondria (and astrocytes) working properly again.

What I learned about thiamine is, that although it is common in all multivitamins and many foods, getting it through the membranes in your gut and into a usable form is not always an easy task. The vitamins I was taking advertised 100 milligrams of thiamine... 6667% of the minimum daily requirement! Hard to believe a deficiency could occur, however, getting even one milligram of usable thiamine into your blood is dependant on many factors such as the presence of \"antithiamine factors\" and \"Thiaminases\" as well as the Ph (acid/alkaline) of the gut.

I have been looking at Phosphatidylcholine (PPC) previously I tried pills which were huge and got stuck in my neck ... I still have them and am not going to use them.  I looked up the powder there are many kinds since the one you used worked could you tell me what one it was and how much you took. 

Thanks

B


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#49 btdt

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:11 PM

ALA RLA from above 

http://www.bodybuild...ssports11.htm#4

 

"Whereas mitochondrial ATP synthesis was increased when the R-enantiomer was previously added to the working rat heart at 0.05-0.1 mumol concentration, with the S-enantiomer ATP synthesis remained within the control range. Mitochondrial membrane fluidity ... revealed a trend towards increase with the R- and decrease with the S-enantiomer."R

 

These results indicate that R (+) alpha-lipoic acid directly activates lipid, tyrosine and serine/threonine kinases in target cells, which could lead to the stimulation of glucose uptake induced by this natural cofactor. These properties are unique among all agents currently used to lower glycaemia in animals and humans with diabetes."R.

 

tyrosine kinase is an enzyme that can transfer a phosphate group from ATP to a protein in a cell. It functions as an "on" or "off" switch in many cellular functions. Tyrosine kinases are a subclass of protein kinase. The phosphate group is attached to the amino acid tyrosine on the protein.

looks promising we will see

 

Tyrosine is a nonessential amino acid the body makes from another amino acid called phenylalanine. It is an essential component for the production of several important brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including epinephrine, norepinephrine, and dopamine.


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#50 btdt

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:21 AM

http://www.drperlmut...protects-brain/

 

Brain Maker: The Power of Gut Microbes to Heal and Protect Your Brain–for Life. - See more at: http://www.drperlmut...h.dVLJDbKY.dpuf


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#51 Elisheba

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:17 PM

Says SSRIs bad for CFS, but MAOs better. Methylene Blue is a dye which is also an MAO which helps your mitrochondria.

http://forums.phoeni...of-drugs.11211/