elliotsmum -- off Pristiq

[Eliotsmum]

Hi, Im just new to this site. I'm looking for support, because I'm really scared. I was on antidepressants from 2007 to April 9, this year. That was the last one \i took. The first three weeks were horrible. I had take time off work to get through all the brain zaps, dizziness ets. Then I got hives, they were horrible. The doctor said they were not due to withdrawal, but I thought it was too much of a coincidence. The hives are just starting to go away. I still take an antihistamine every 2 days to keep them under control. Now I'm feeling anxiety in the morning when I wake up, it's debilitating some mornings. (Oh yeah, and I'm a 1.5 years into menopause, so I'm getting hot flashes etc. I worry about many things during this morning anxiety, one of which is "do I need to go back on antidepressants"? Is this a normal part of going off them. From What I read here, it just might be part of the process. I hate this. I wasn't expecting all this crap when I went off those pills.....Maybe I need to start taking them again? Someone please help......

[Altostrata]

Hello, elliotsmum. I moved your first post here as your Introduction.

 

Many people suffer withdrawal symptoms when they come off antidepressants. This has been kept quiet for many years.

 

Some people do get skin problems -- itching, burning, sensitivity -- as a withdrawal symptom. Good to hear yours is fading.

 

The morning anxiety is because your "alerting" system heightened in withdrawal, and your body has a natural increase of the "alerting" hormone cortisol early in the morning, triggered by early morning light. This usually gets you out of bed with a little burst of energy, but because your system is already on high alert, you feel it as anxiety or panic.

 

I suggest darkening the bedroom with blackout shades, curtains, plus a sleep mask to shut out the early morning light. This may soften that symptom somewhat.

 

What medication were you on and how did you taper off?

[Eliotsmum]

Hi, Altostrata Thank you for responding: I was on a number of different SSRI's over the years. Recently I was on 50mg of Pristiq. I weaned off it over a period of 1.5 months (approx) It was diffiult to get off because it was a timed release drug. For the firt 3 weeks, I took time off work, I couldn't drive or fuction very well, because of the brain zapps, agitation, crying spells etc. Then I felt pretty good after about 3 weeks, then all of a sudden the hives started. They were really bad, all over my body, lips, eyelids...I was reading on-line that women going through meopause also get hives. I think I picked a bad time to go off Prisq (in the throws of menopause). I went to the Dr yesterday. He did't think it was depression coming back, but seemed more like anxiety. In the last 2 weeks, the morning anxiety is getting worse. Now I'm worring about getting it, which I think is feeding into it. It is somewhat comforting to know this is a normal progression of getting off SSRI's. I was thinking of getting an eyemask with lavendar..... If I can get myself up at the first sign of anxiety and get moving, it does get better. But that's easier said than done. I am not on any other medication....well, I'm taking Calcium/magnesium, B Complex, Quercetin, Omega 3 and Black Cohosh for the hotflashes. I'm considering adding Ginsing or Ginko for the anxiety.... but I'm still thinking about that. The Dr told me I NEEDED to start exercising, and I am determined to do that now, because I have got to get over this...... I also started seeing a councellor yesterday.

[Altostrata]

It's very common for doctors to diagnose withdrawal symptoms as anxiety or depression, and prescribe more drugs to treat them, and there you go on the merry-go-round again.

 

It's important to do what you can to stay calm, and not be afraid of your withdrawal symptoms. They come and go and fade over time. You will need some patience and will power to get through this!

 

Exercise is an excellent idea. It can help you feel better in a lot of ways. Don't overdo it, your nervous system in withdrawal is already dealing with stress and trying to heal.

 

Start slow with exercise, maybe a half-hour of walking each day at first, then build up to more walking and, if you feel like it, exercise at the gym.

 

Also, your nervous system in withdrawal may be sensitive to herbs, so I wouldn't overdo that, either -- especially any herbs or supplements that are supposed to be energizing or good for depression.

 

As you're experiencing, your system doesn't need any more stimulating, it's already on high alert.

 

Many people do well with fish oil (omega-3 fatty acids) and 400IU vitamin E each day. Usually you have to take 4-6 fish oil capsules to get enough omega-3 fatty acids. See this topic.

 

Like everything else when you're sensitive from withdrawal, start with a very small amount, say, one capsule, and see how you react.

[Eliotsmum]

But it has been 3 months since I've stopped.....doesn't withdrawal take place the first 3 weeks or so after stopping, am I still in withdrawal?

[Altostrata]

The information that withdrawal symptoms only a few weeks is incorrect. Depending on the individual, they can last much longer.

 

The early-morning waking with anxiety is a hallmark of withdrawal syndrome. You may have other odd feelings and symptoms that could be connected with withdrawal.

 

But -- it's important not to look for symptoms everywhere. Whatever symptoms you might have from withdrawal tend to go away with time. How much time is the big question for each person.

 

While you're recovering, you may be able to manage your symptoms with simple non-drug techniques. Many are described in the Symptoms and What Helps section.

[Eliotsmum]

I had a chat with my cousin and his wife who are pharmacists. They told me that it takes longer than one would think for the body to get back into alance after stopping antidepressants, they suggested on average 3 to 6 months or more. So this anxiety in the morning is just another part of this long proeess of the body trying to get back into balance.....?

[ElizaT]

Hi Eliot,

 

I stopped Effexor since end of december 2010 (6,5 month) and now I still have the symptoms and the morning anxiety is one of them... And many many emotions and emotional vertigo . So , I am waiting to go bettter...

[Altostrata]

Elliots -- Correct. Your relatives are comparatively well-informed.

[Eliotsmum]

Hi ElizaT: Would you say the morning anxiety is lessening? Are you able to get up and function, or is it debilitating? What techniques have you used to get through it?

[Altostrata]

You both might be interested in this topic: Early-morning waking with panic or anxiety

[Eliotsmum]

Thanks, yes, I read that topic and have tried wearing a sleep mask for the past 3 nights. Not sure if its working, or I've just had a couple of good mornings. I decided this morning to go for a 20 minute walk immediately after I wake up. it seemed to help. I also am going to try positive affirmations on going to bed and on waking. My accupuncturist gave me some info on meta meditations....Lets see if it helps....

[ElizaT]

Hi Eliot ,

 

Each morning I try to apply the phrase "the brain does not differentiate between real or imagined danger" ...

[Altostrata]

Thanks, yes, I read that topic and have tried wearing a sleep mask for the past 3 nights. Not sure if its working, or I've just had a couple of good mornings. I decided this morning to go for a 20 minute walk immediately after I wake up. it seemed to help. I also am going to try positive affirmations on going to bed and on waking. My accupuncturist gave me some info on meta meditations....Lets see if it helps....

 

That's the way, Eliots!

 

 

Hi Eliot ,

 

Each morning I try to apply the phrase "the brain does not differentiate between real or imagined danger" ...

 

Excellent advice. We might add "or neurologically generated danger."

[Nadia]

I am using the meta meditation:

 

May I be happy.

May I be healthy.

May I be peaceful.

May I be safe.

 

Over and over and over. I also repeat the phrase "I deeply and completely love and accept myself" (from EFT). I don't notice an immediate effect (a lot of this healing thing for me has to do with learning hard work and delayed gratification), but I bet it's doing its work "down" there somewhere!

 

Good job on walking in the mornings. I was thinking I needed to do it as well. Knowing others are doing it helps with inspiration. Thank you!

[Eliotsmum]

This is the meta meditation my acupuncturist gave to me:

 

"May I am well, happy and peaceful" (Each time you say a phrase, think about what this means to your body, heart, mind)

"May I be free of internal and external harm"

"May my mind be peaceful and at ease. My my heart is open and full of joy. No worries or concerns"

"May my body be strong and healthy"

"May I continue to make wise choices for myself"

 

You say this once for yourself, then you work into saying ita second time for a benefactor.(May Susan be well, happy and peaceful....) (Someone you know who has been good to you, for no other reason than they are a good person, then you work into saying it a third time for a family member (not a spouse or immediate family, maybe a grandparent (deceased or alive) or aunt, cousin, in'law...) With close family members there can be some jealousy, posessiveness, etc, which would bring negative feelings into the meditation. If you get any negative feelings about the person while you are saying the meditation, you stop.

[Nadia]

Thanks for sharing that. The therapist that gave me the one I posted before told me that traditionally you first did it for yourself, then for a person you cared about, then for a stranger, and then for an "enemy", but that you would not progress to each person until you did it for years at each step and fully embraced it. In some ways wishing it for yourself is the hardest of all, though!

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Nadia: Yes, that sounds like the same advice I was given. You are right, the results are not immediate, but I do feel that after saying this meditation for a few minutes, there is some improvement. I sometimes I am looking for the 'magic bullet' and have to recognize that this will be a slow progression of getting better. I will try to stick to saying the meditation for myself only for the next little while..... This morning, I woke up all nervous and in knots again (5/10). Got my cloths on and went for a walk.....almost started crying at the beginning, from feeling so horrible (and sorry for myself), started noticing the fresh air, flowers, sun....bla bla bla, by the end I would say I felt about a 6.5 to 7/10. I kept my arms pumping, listened to uplifiting classical music and pumped my arms to make some 'happy' brain chemicals. hee hee It's interesting to notice that I can start to feel better when I do something.... I'm now at work, feeling about 8/10. (Dreading tomorrow morning though)

[Nadia]

Good job! Sometimes when we're going through a rough patch it's hard not to want the magic answer. I'm proud of your up-spiral!

[ajay]

 

This morning, I woke up all nervous and in knots again (5/10). Got my cloths on and went for a walk.....almost started crying at the beginning, from feeling so horrible (and sorry for myself), started noticing the fresh air, flowers, sun....bla bla bla, by the end I would say I felt about a 6.5 to 7/10. I kept my arms pumping, listened to uplifiting classical music and pumped my arms to make some 'happy' brain chemicals. hee hee It's interesting to notice that I can start to feel better when I do something.... I'm now at work, feeling about 8/10.

 

 

Go Elli! That's wonderful.

[Eliotsmum]

This morning is horrible. I'm so upset....I took a clonazapam at 5:30 am didn't seem to work. I feel like I can't pull myself together. Uncontrollable crying and anxiety about I don't know what....I m so afraid of this.......

[Altostrata]

Elliots, I am so sorry you're having such a bad time. Ordinarily, to reduce withdrawal symptoms if not too much time has passed since quitting, one might try reinstatement at a lower dose and slower tapering from there.

 

I just put together a tapering topic on Pristiq and found there is no lower dosage than the 50mg extended-release tablet, and 50mg is the usual recommended dosage.

 

There is no way to taper from 50mg. This means there will be many people coming here suffering from Pristiq withdrawal.

 

This is criminal! If I were you, I'd phone Pfizer at (800) 438-1985, report your withdrawal symptoms, ask them for advice about reinstatement and slower tapering, and give them h*ll for not having lower-dosage tablets.

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Alto: I REALLY REALLY appreciate you sending that e-mail.....and I appreciate your advice....I had thought of that..... but there is no frickin way on God's green earth that I'm going to go back on one of those meds. I will suffer through this to get to the other side. I am feeling better now......Maybe the Clonazapam finally kicked in.....It really is criminal that these companies don't fully warn about prolonged discontinuation effects to patients and Dr's so we can be looked after better. I wouldn't touch another one of these pills if you paid me......But I may just send the Drug company an e-mail AND phone them. I am also going to send my information into the researchers you mentioned who are doing the study on this. Maybe tomorrow will be better. If I can just find some way of lessening the morning anxiety. When you went through the morning anxiety part did you have some bad days? What did you try?

[Altostrata]

Totally support you in this, E.

 

The morning anxiety is a tough one. I suggest room-darkening by all means possible to block out the rising sun -- that's what sets off the cortisol surge.

 

See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems and Early-morning waking with panic or anxiety

[Nadia]

Big, big hug for you!! I'm going through (what I HOPE is) the worst of morning anxiety, and I have to say it is SO frightening. I am trying a million things. Did you go for a walk like before? I'm also meditating and doing some low-intensity exercises. And then I do automatic writing for three pages (takes me 20 to 30 minutes because I scrawl... it doesn't matter if you can read it or not, it's just getting the thoughts out). Today I did the EFT tapping thing (see symptoms and what helps) and it did help (I haven't pinned down when it works and when it doesn't, but the fact it does sometimes is enough to at least give it a go). I also did the moving your arms around thing you mentioned a couple of days ago and that helped. I guess the hardest part is not cringing against what you feel, but just letting it have its place.

 

I think it's most frightening because it seems to be coming out of left field and doesn't seem to have a cause. But maybe that very fact may help us deal with it? If you can just observe yourself feeling anxious and know it's just this crazy reaction happening to you because of withdrawal, then maybe you can ride it out easier? The other thing I've been doing is telling myself over and over "this means you are healing, this means you are healing".

 

At least know you are not alone and we are all rooting for you!

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Nadia: Thanks for the support, your 'hug' made me smile. How did your morning end up. Looks like you actively tried to divert your attention from the anxiety and work through it. Did it work? I like what you said....

 

 

Nadia - Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:39 PM

 

I think it's most frightening because it seems to be coming out of left field and doesn't seem to have a cause. But maybe that very fact may help us deal with it? If you can just observe yourself feeling anxious and know it's just this crazy reaction happening to you because of withdrawal, then maybe you can ride it out easier? The other thing I've been doing is telling myself over and over "this means you are healing, this means you are healing".

quote]

 

Yes, maybe this does mean we are healing...just another phase in the healing process. Yesterday I got a relaxation CD from itunes "Andrew Weil and Martin Rossman, Self Healing With Guided Imagery". Very interesting! The first hour they discuss our bodies healing capability, and the 2nd hour is a really great guided relaxation session. I listened to it this morning in bed when I felt anxious. (To be honest I also took a 1/2 of an 8 year old Clonazapam, but I'm not going to beat myself up about that...) Yesterday I took a whole pill and it didn't work..... I also went to bed saying positive affirmations about myself, first out loud to my boyfriend, then silently to myself.

 

It is really hard to fight the fear and DO Something....but that is the key isn't it? I am having trouble eating now too because of all this anxiety. It is reminding me of 14 years ago and 23 years ago, when I had 2 bouts of depression. The anxiety scares me that it is could be depression happening again, but I keep having to remind myself that my life is totally different now. And I am able to function this time, go to work, I want to do things, see my friends, get out there.....unlike those times when I went through depression.

 

I got my hair done yesterday, my hairdresser has gained so much weight, she is upset over having to move because of all the noise outside of her beautiful condo (it's near a Pub that has new owners). She can't sleep for the drunk roudies at 2:00am and she's so upset, anxious in the morning, throwing up from anxiety...bla bla bla.... We all go through things don't we? A lady at work who I thought had it all together, happy, gregarious at work...told me she's been off for the last 2 weeks from high blood pressure (anxiety from work). I was SHOCKED! She said to me 'we are all human and have fragile moments". Nadia, your words resonated with me" This anxiety is because of withdrawal.....it means I am healing. Our bodies are trying to find balance, right?

 

I don't feel 100% but good enough to have something for breakfast and go for a relaxing hike today with my boyfriend....

 

Keep me posted on how you are doing. OK

[Altostrata]

....I think it's most frightening because it seems to be coming out of left field and doesn't seem to have a cause. But maybe that very fact may help us deal with it? If you can just observe yourself feeling anxious and know it's just this crazy reaction happening to you because of withdrawal, then maybe you can ride it out easier? The other thing I've been doing is telling myself over and over "this means you are healing, this means you are healing"....

 

Yes, exactly. This is neuro-emotion generated by your distressed nervous system. You are not losing your mind. The waves mean your nervous system is going back and forth between neuro-emotion and a more stable, normal condition.

 

Generally, the waves become less frequent, less intense, and the "windows" of feeling better become more frequent and longer. Improvements come in lurches -- very gradual, unpredictable, and sort of surprising when they happen.

[Eliotsmum]

Yippee, This morning I did not wake up nervous. Things I did differently yesterday. My boyfriend and I went for a moderate hike. Got the heart rate up....went out for dinner (I did have to take a 1/2 of an 8 year old Clonazapam, 'cause I got anxious about eating) But I got through it. Ate 3/4 of the meal and took the rest home, which I finished later. Positive affirmations before bed. Walk this morning...The only down side is it was day 3 for the antihistamine for the hives on Sunday, I decided not to take one, since I didn't have any hives last night. But I woke up with hives all over my upper chest, upper back, between my thights and my bottom lip was swollen up. Didn't freak out, just took an antihistamine. The lip is going down already. On my walk I was actually a little worried about why I didn't wake up nervous. Guess this is one of those waves you were talking about Alto... Off to work. Hope everyone is feeling good today. Hugs to all.....

[Nadia]

Good job on not freaking out! I'm going to try to get some guided imagery CD to help me like the one you mention. I wonder if you didn't feel nervous today because of the hives... like maybe it either expresses itself through your body OR through your emotions.

 

Enjoy the moment of relative calm!

[Eliotsmum]

Good grief....weird...but you may have a point. Interesting?.....

[Nadia]

Probably best not even to think about it! This is me just overthinking as usual.

[Eliotsmum]

Nadia: I actually think you may be on to something....I think I'm going to go see a Naturopath, and see what they think...

[lupe]

I'm glad I took the time to read through this post! So many things I can relate to. I awoke this AM, after a bad weekend of anxiety and crying spells etc, waaaaayyy too early with horrible morning anxiety. It is so bad some mornings!!!!!! I don't know how we can get through it!!!!!! I got on line to this site and just read a lot of posts. I got up and took a shower.... telling myself the whole time, "this is temporary it will pass.... like a mantra and all the way to work.

It is true that once I get to work I am able to have distractions, things I have to get done, people I have to communicate with and it definitely helps me. I have been so glad that I have to go to work because I could not stay at home by myself and get through this. It is my own thoughts that are so destructive and so I have found that keeping my life as "normal as possible".... stick to my routine as best as I can.... do that which helps me get outside of myself.... get online to this site and read others stories and try to share some of mine etc.... are the things that are going to see me through this.

I have been learning more and more coping strategies here that I can use because I am not taking any more pills if I can help it. Right now I am taking an allergy pill at night, melatonin, omeprazole and Omega-3 and that is it. I think it would be really cool to go to bed at night and not take any pills!!!! It took a really long time for me to taper off the trazodone and it has been such hell (as we all know only too well) that I am way to scared to take anything that might lead me back to some sort of taper or withdrawal.

My counselor gave me the "loving kindness meditation" and I put it next to my bed so I would have it to read in the morning( he said it was helpful to people with schizophrenia) and then I found this post and you guys are talking about it too.I hope I find some relief also. The deep breathing helps but I still need lots of practice, it is hard for me to concentrate very long on any one thing so I am lucky I have been doing my job for over 20 years because I really know how to do it... even if it is something new I have all the basics and background to be able to research things and troubleshoot problems without too much stress so I am still able to work while I am going through this "process" of healing my neurotransmitters.

It is just so unreal at times because I am changing so much..... the things I like to eat( when I am not so nauseous I CAN eat) , the things I like to do, the stuff I do to relax.... it all seems to "need" to be different now.

I am rambling and still not able to express myself well..... I am so glad to be able to read your posts and know that I am not alone..... and Alto is a wealth of information and inspiration! Here's to a better tomorrow!

[kathy1444]

Hello Eliotsmum,

You give me hope and inspiration! I was meditating but find it hard to relax now, deep breathing and writing help me and therapy!!

[Eliotsmum]

This morning was a good morning, very mild butterflies in my stomach. Got up and went for a walk with my boyfriend. I'm feeling like I'm on an upswing. I'm going to enjoy it, while it's here. Again, tried to keep saying positive thoughts to myself yesterday and last night. I am trying to believe I can heal. Thinking about each day as it comes....we're going on holidays at the beginning of Aug, and I'm a bit worried about being anxious on my holidays....but I'm trying to think the best. My boyfriend is a great support, he sees me have up days and then crash. He says we will get through it, if I get anxious. Deep breath.... We have talked about contingency plans if I have a bad day on my holidays...we will continue to walk in the mornings, If I can't eat at a restaurant, I will take a doggie bag and eat later, I will use my meditation cd's, and I have my 8 year old clonazapams if I feel I need help. I try to remember life is not necessarily easier for other people either......

[Nadia]

Great news about your upswing!