The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[PortugueseSea]

On 4/3/2024 at 12:50 AM, Ashpashley23 said:

 

What if we have yet to experience any windows? What if we don’t follow this pattern?

 

I’m getting toward 14 months off all meds and have not had any windows yet, nor have any symptoms fallen off yet. 
 

Anyone else not have windows and still healed?

 

It is important to note that windows does not necessarily mean periods of time with no symptoms, it can also mean your symptoms calm down for a while before ramping up again.

 

I don’t get any true windows, I haven’t had 0 symptom moments ever.

 

What I do have is symptoms calming down for certain periods of time, though I’m not sure if that isn’t just my baseline improving between waves.

[jon1]

4 hours ago, PortugueseSea said:

It is important to note that windows does not necessarily mean periods of time with no symptoms, it can also mean your symptoms calm down for a while before ramping up again.

 

I don’t get any true windows, I haven’t had 0 symptom moments ever.

 

What I do have is symptoms calming down for certain periods of time, though I’m not sure if that isn’t just my baseline improving between waves.

I’m the same. At first I thought a window would mean feeling 100% better, the sun shining, and happily singing with the birds.

 

In reality it’s more like feeling ‘less bad’. Sometimes the improvements are so subtle, I only notice I was feeling a bit better when another wave arrives.

[6Eggs]

Although it is far less common, some people have little to no waves and the improvement is more linear and gradual over time, but most have the waves and windows, but not necessarily any at the beginning.

Slowly the constant bad starts to fragment into small bits of less bad, that is the windows and that's exactly it, it's just less bad that the very bad.

Over time the less bad becomes a little less bad again and the bad waves a little shorter and not as intense, but you can still have just as bad and sometimes new and even worse waves come in.

These I would call setbacks and are normal part of the recovery but do look like starting all over again. I am currently going though a rather large patch of these and it is pure hell, but right now I am climbing up into a window again and so far it's not as good as ones I was commonly having.  Symptoms often morph into something new during a setback or an unusual combo of ones you have before but not together.

And yes, windows can indeed be 100% or close to that, I have had many close to 100% myself again last year before I got off the last med, but many months after I successfully CT the first med.

There is no expected pattern in the short term ( during tapering and the several months and couple of years post CT) when there is poly pharmacy involved.

Multiple drugs complicates WD far more than usual because most commonly multi drugs are normally working on completely different biological mechanisms (classes of drugs). It's kinda analogous to having a flat tire on your car, it can't drive but multiple drugs is like having a flat tire, and a busted transmission. Both stop the car together and on their own, but fixing one or the other is not enough and there is more effort, resources and time required to drive again.

[Tolk90]

2 hours ago, 6Eggs said:

Although it is far less common, some people have little to no waves and the improvement is more linear and gradual over time, but most have the waves and windows, but not necessarily any at the beginning.

Slowly the constant bad starts to fragment into small bits of less bad, that is the windows and that's exactly it, it's just less bad that the very bad.

Over time the less bad becomes a little less bad again and the bad waves a little shorter and not as intense, but you can still have just as bad and sometimes new and even worse waves come in.

These I would call setbacks and are normal part of the recovery but do look like starting all over again. I am currently going though a rather large patch of these and it is pure hell, but right now I am climbing up into a window again and so far it's not as good as ones I was commonly having.  Symptoms often morph into something new during a setback or an unusual combo of ones you have before but not together.

And yes, windows can indeed be 100% or close to that, I have had many close to 100% myself again last year before I got off the last med, but many months after I successfully CT the first med.

There is no expected pattern in the short term ( during tapering and the several months and couple of years post CT) when there is poly pharmacy involved.

Multiple drugs complicates WD far more than usual because most commonly multi drugs are normally working on completely different biological mechanisms (classes of drugs). It's kinda analogous to having a flat tire on your car, it can't drive but multiple drugs is like having a flat tire, and a busted transmission. Both stop the car together and on their own, but fixing one or the other is not enough and there is more effort, resources and time required to drive again.

Greetings. I had a great day on April 17th, 2024. While my wife was on a buh course. according to the account, I was able to walk it was about 5km at an intensive pace, I listened to music and jumped straight off the asphalt with the feeling that I had conquered this world and everything was under my control. At lunch we ate, lay down to rest and then went shopping. It was wonderful. We rode around the city at night in our favorite car, listened to music, the city glowed fabulously beautiful, we moved from store to store, buying clothes, I was completely in life, here and now. I had a moment when my wife was measuring things in the fitting room and I experienced a rise downstairs, my libido increased several times. And even in the evening, when we arrived home, everything was fine. 

The morning came, I woke up very early and immediately hit the alarm, it is bearable, I can control it. But she still steals all the good feelings. I went on my next wave, which lasted all day yesterday.

I have a feeling that the withdrawal symptoms are very similar to bipolar disorder. On the day I felt good, it was so pronounced that sometimes I envied myself.

[MiscMan73]

9 hours ago, Tolk90 said:

I have a feeling that the withdrawal symptoms are very similar to bipolar disorder. On the day I felt good, it was so pronounced that sometimes I envied myself.

This is definitely reflects my experience. What I've gone through for the past 6 months mimics the symptoms of bipolar minus the mania. Although I sometimes wonder if my windows are in fact manifestations of hypomania. My depressive states also vary not only in intensity but in specific manifestations. Sometimes, they feel like "classic" depression with lots of crying spells and high emotional sensitivity. These episodes are a relief compared to my worst days, which are characterized by a deep and unrelenting despair, psychomotor disturbances and physical slowness causing me to walk like a zombie, and almost the total opposite of the emotional sensitivity in my "classic" depression state: a profound numbness where absolutely nothing can provoke even the smallest emotional reponse in me. 

[Tolk90]

9 minutes ago, MiscMan73 said:

Это определенно отражает мой опыт. То, через что я прошел за последние 6 месяцев, имитирует симптомы биполярного расстройства без мании. Хотя я иногда задаюсь вопросом, а не являются ли мои окна на самом деле проявлением гипомании. Мои депрессивные состояния тоже различаются не только по интенсивности, но и по конкретным проявлениям. Иногда они ощущаются как «классическая» депрессия с множеством приступов плача и высокой эмоциональной чувствительностью. Эти эпизоды являются облегчением по сравнению с моими худшими днями, которые характеризуются глубоким и безжалостным отчаянием, психомоторными расстройствами и физической медлительностью, заставляющими меня ходить как зомби, и почти полной противоположностью эмоциональной чувствительности в моем «классическом» депрессивном состоянии. : глубокое онемение, при котором абсолютно ничто не может вызвать во мне даже малейшего эмоционального отклика. 

Good afternoon. Please tell me, are you getting better? Is there a difference between a 4-month waiver and a 6-month waiver? How do you feel now?

[MiscMan73]

13 minutes ago, Tolk90 said:

Good afternoon. Please tell me, are you getting better? Is there a difference between a 4-month waiver and a 6-month waiver? How do you feel now?

To be honest, it's hard to tell if I'm getting better. I can definitely say my physical symptoms have lessened over time while psychological symptoms appear to take their place. My current windows often feel better than the windows I experienced at the beginning of my cold turkey, but at the same time, my waves will sometimes feel worse. I also seem to have more days that feel in-between a window and a wave, not particularly good or bad. I suppose this is a sign of improvement, it's just hard to be sure.

[missy27]

So im in a terrible wave. Ive never had one like this. It mocks the flu. Nauseous, horrible body pain, weak, lethargic, my body feels hot and my heart is racing. I will hit a window for a couple hours at night then im back in it in the morning. Its been like this for over a week. Anyone else had this?

[Luke44]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:50 AM, Ashpashley23 said:

What if we have yet to experience any windows? What if we don’t follow this pattern?

 

I’m getting toward 14 months off all meds and have not had any windows yet, nor have any symptoms fallen off yet. 
 

Anyone else not have windows and still healed?

I have the same question. I’m 21 months out, and in my case the symptoms not only haven’t lessened during any interval of time, but have just consistently worsened. Not sure what to do at this point. Anyone else heard of this happening? 

[Tolk90]

13 minutes ago, Luke44 said:

I have the same question. I’m 21 months out, and in my case the symptoms not only haven’t lessened during any interval of time, but have just consistently worsened. Not sure what to do at this point. Anyone else heard of this happening? 

I'm sorry you're still not feeling well. After 4 months, I feel better. But I noticed that later there should be no windows or waves, it's more like ordinary days. As calm as possible, these days do not make you despair or jump for joy. Rather, something in between. You can get sad or try to adjust your mood. This is the normal life of a healthy person. I am so convinced that I need to change my diet and add physical activity. All of this won't work right away, after 3-4 weeks. Try to eat right, control your daily calorie intake. Eat healthy food and give your body activity, walking, light running, swimming, but without fanaticism. It may not work at first and even speed up the condition, but it gets better in the process. Noticeably better.

[Sonia009]

On 4/22/2024 at 7:33 PM, missy27 said:

So im in a terrible wave. Ive never had one like this. It mocks the flu. Nauseous, horrible body pain, weak, lethargic, my body feels hot and my heart is racing. I will hit a window for a couple hours at night then im back in it in the morning. Its been like this for over a week. Anyone else had this?

@missy27Hi, yep, I've felt exactly as you describe all day today. It's been a stressful day so I put it down to that.🙂