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The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


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#73 RebelMaven

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

everything seems frightening at this point. i'm not sleeping much now. irritable and agitated. then depressed and anxious. my brain is going crazy trying to figure it out.

#74 flower

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:26 AM

Rebel I so admire your bravery.
C/T Celexa and Trazadone on Jan.29th 2014
Prescribed 1mg of Klonopin every 6 hours on Jan.29th
Began tapering Klonopin April 18th..stretching time between doses...at first one hour for 2 weeks then a half hour for app.10 days then another half hour 10days later.
Presently at .25 three times a day..6 2 and 10pm. Trying to stabilize.
Also still taking gabapentin 300mgs 2xs a day..

#75 Narcissus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

everything seems frightening at this point. i'm not sleeping much now. irritable and agitated. then depressed and anxious.

my brain is going crazy trying to figure it out.


I was there earlier today. Hope things have improved on your end.
3 Years 150 mgs Effexor
2 month taper down to zero
3 terrible weeks at zero
Back up to 75 mgs
2 months at 75
6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.
3 month taper back to zero
1 HORRENDOUS week at zero
2 days back up to 37.5
3 days back up to 75
One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.
Back down to 75 mgs
At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

#76 peggy

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:00 PM

do you still call it windows and waves when you are tapering? I updosed and am still stabilising after experiencing a few weeks of unacceptable and increasing anxiety - i get ups and downs over a day - can feel bad in the morning and then as the day progresses feel better until at night sometimes (but not always) feel almost normal. I wonder if this is windows and waves or just stabilising?

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg


#77 Jemima

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

This is just my guess, but I think the "windows and waves" pattern applies to either a too-fast taper or cold turkey and the withdrawal syndrome that follows. (Windows and waves don't happen to me much any more. I seem to be stuck in a long term state of "the blahs", although occasionally there's an upbeat breakthrough. Hmmm...I just came across an older post by Alto saying that withdrawal syndrome can exacerbate seasonal sadness, which is something that has always gotten me down, and I do feel better on sunny days. Post #40, this topic, if you're interested in reading it). Generally, also, windows and waves are sporadic, not a regular up-and-down, daily cycle like you describe, which sounds like the typical sensitivity to cortisol that so many of us experience in withdrawal. My guess is that you made too big of a drop the last time, and therefore are experiencing a brief period of withdrawal syndrome which will go away when your updose takes full effect.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#78 peggy

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

thanks Jemima - that sounds plausible. I couldn't work out why i was hit with withdrawal on that reduction as it was (i thought) less than 10% - then, when i started paying attention to the variation in the numbers of beads in each capsule and when i finally got my scale, i realised that i have probably been see sawing by up to 1.5mg (on either side of my actual dose, so it could have even been 3mg difference some days) - which when i was on a higher dose wasn't too bad, but as I got lower the buffer got less until it could no longer keep me stable.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg


#79 Jemima

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

I would think that a 1.5 mg. to 3 mg. difference would have quite an impact, especially at lower doses. I'm sorry that you found out the hard way.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#80 Narcissus

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

I think the "windows and waves" pattern applies to either a too-fast taper or cold turkey and the withdrawal syndrome that follows.


This is my understanding too.
3 Years 150 mgs Effexor
2 month taper down to zero
3 terrible weeks at zero
Back up to 75 mgs
2 months at 75
6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.
3 month taper back to zero
1 HORRENDOUS week at zero
2 days back up to 37.5
3 days back up to 75
One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.
Back down to 75 mgs
At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

#81 Altostrata

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

If you are tapering too fast and get withdrawal symptoms, they may fluctuate in a windows and waves pattern. This leads a lot of people to ignore the warning signs of going too fast. If you continue to taper, withdrawal symptoms probably will get worse. It's the nature of withdrawal symptoms to fluctuate, because the nervous system is trying to correct itself.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#82 basildev

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for bumping this. I've read it before but that was when I wasn't in withdrawal. Now that I am I feel I needed to see this.

July 2001 prescribed 20mg citalopram for depression;
On and off meds from 2003-2006.
February 2006 back on 20mg citalopram and stayed on it until my last attempt at tapering in September 2011.
By far the worst withdrawal symptoms ever. Reinstated to 20mg citalopram
October 2012 - found this forum!
Nov 2012 to Feb 2013 did 10% taper, got doen to 11mg - was going great until stressful situation. Cortisol levels hit the roof, hideous insomnia forced me to updose to 20mg.
March 2016 - close to 100% back to normal!



****** I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience or reading and is only my perspective ******


#83 tezza

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

Basil, From November 2012 to February 2013 your dose was almost half of 20 mg, I have to wonder if the tapers caught up with you. Maybe that was faster than your body could handle. That seems kinda fast to me but I could be wrong.
http://survivinganti...dal-withdrawal/

Seroquel and Mirtazipine

#84 tezza

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

Your sig says Feb 2012 but I think you meant 2013
http://survivinganti...dal-withdrawal/

Seroquel and Mirtazipine

#85 basildev

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

You're right Tezza (on both counts) I agree it was probably too fast. It equates to almost 25% per month if you look at it logically. Thing is, the wd symptoms were mimimal to none so I thought all was fine and I was dropping every 3 weeks (maybe even sooner in some instances). Then BAM! It caught up with me. Never again...

July 2001 prescribed 20mg citalopram for depression;
On and off meds from 2003-2006.
February 2006 back on 20mg citalopram and stayed on it until my last attempt at tapering in September 2011.
By far the worst withdrawal symptoms ever. Reinstated to 20mg citalopram
October 2012 - found this forum!
Nov 2012 to Feb 2013 did 10% taper, got doen to 11mg - was going great until stressful situation. Cortisol levels hit the roof, hideous insomnia forced me to updose to 20mg.
March 2016 - close to 100% back to normal!



****** I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience or reading and is only my perspective ******


#86 Jemima

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

Please note that posts related to Daylight Savings Time have been moved to that topic:

Time change for daylight savings

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#87 basildev

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:56 PM

Hi everyone,

I came across this really great explanation of how the brain heals during withdrawal. It was from the benzos forum but I think it also applies to other psych drugs.

Here is a section:

"The bottom line is this- the body has an enormous job ahead of itself trying to reset neurotransmitter levels, hormone levels, peptide levels, reverse neuronal changes….and since the body relies upon all of these things to do its work, it is truly a miracle that our bodies can sort out such a mess and set everything straight again.

But that is something you need to rely upon. The miracle of life. The forces within us that go about doing their business automatically. Your body knows exactly what is not right. Since it cannot possibly tackle everything at once, especially with so many systems down, it works on first things first.

It is like a table that had all of its legs damaged. One leg gets fixed but the table still cannot stand up right. Then the leg diagonally across is fixed and the table can stand somewhat, but will fall over with the slightest touch. Then a third leg is fixed and the table is on more even footing- but still wobbly and if something is place on top the table will tilt. Finally the last leg is fixed and the table is able to stand again. However the glue may need time to cure before the table is as sturdy as it was before the legs were damaged. So while the glue is curing nothing heavy must be placed on the table.

This is how symptoms go. When two legs are repaired the table may be able to stand for a bit but will eventually fall again. As the body gets some things repaired it may be able to operate pretty good for an hour or day until a stressor of some sort comes along and throws it back off balance.

Then 3 legs are fixed but the table can still tilt. Items can be placed on the table, but if placed wrong or if they are too heavy, the table will tilt. Our bodies are now getting far enough along to have longer periods of feeling better- but if a load comes along it can tilt again. Since 3 legs are present the table does not completely fall down as it did before. While waves can be hard further out in your recovery, if you really sit down and compare your waves now to back in the beginning you will see that now you have more of a foundation, just like the table. You may tilt pretty far but do not fall down completely like you did before. However tilts can still bring on strong symptoms. All of the legs work together to keep the table upright. They all depend on each other, no one leg can do it on its own. That is how the body is.

Finally when the last leg is fixed you feel like it may be over- now you can stand again. But keep in mind the glue may still be soft and you should not place anything heavy on the table. So beware of high stress situations, medications, or other things that can put a load on your still fragile body.


The parts of the body affected do not come back on line evenly. Some will be restored before others- but since they all rely upon each other, as in the table analogy, some symptoms will stay steady because that area has not been addressed by the body yet. Some will wax and wane as the legs are repaired. Eventually they will become less intense and fade away. This can happen in a shorter time for some people, and take a much longer time for others. One reason for this is that we are all genetically different."



from the post here:

http://www.benzobudd...p?topic=77803.0

July 2001 prescribed 20mg citalopram for depression;
On and off meds from 2003-2006.
February 2006 back on 20mg citalopram and stayed on it until my last attempt at tapering in September 2011.
By far the worst withdrawal symptoms ever. Reinstated to 20mg citalopram
October 2012 - found this forum!
Nov 2012 to Feb 2013 did 10% taper, got doen to 11mg - was going great until stressful situation. Cortisol levels hit the roof, hideous insomnia forced me to updose to 20mg.
March 2016 - close to 100% back to normal!



****** I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience or reading and is only my perspective ******


#88 Jemima

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:07 PM

Thanks, Basildev. What a great explanation! I think I'm still in the soft glue stage. Almost there, but don't lay anything heavy on me yet!

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#89 Narcissus

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

This is very helpful, thanks Basildev.
3 Years 150 mgs Effexor
2 month taper down to zero
3 terrible weeks at zero
Back up to 75 mgs
2 months at 75
6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.
3 month taper back to zero
1 HORRENDOUS week at zero
2 days back up to 37.5
3 days back up to 75
One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.
Back down to 75 mgs
At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

#90 Barbarannamated

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:00 PM

GreAt analogy for how the body functions at all times: if one part is broken, weakened or shutting down, others are effected and weakened and/or compensate.
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#91 Altoid

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

Yeah, exactly. "Feeling better" is only a relative term.

It's only in the last 6 months or so that when I'm "better," I'm feeling normal-ish. I'm 6.5 years off Paxil.


Just reading this thread for the first time.
I see you wrote this in 2011. I was wondering now that it's 2 years later, how are you feeling?

#92 Altostrata

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

Closer to normal all the time. But I'm 62, and now I have to deal with aging....
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#93 cymbaltawithdrawal5600

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:53 AM

Closer to normal all the time. But I'm 62, and now I have to deal with aging....


I am nearly the same age as you, had my birthday already in this calendar year, so 1 year older according to the timestamp of the quoted post. Aging body, aging mind, aging everything. All those years of experiences leading up to today.
What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivinganti...ion/#entry50878

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

#94 Altoid

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

I'm 50. I've noticed that a lot of women in this age group are the ones coming off these drugs.
For some reason I used to read posts and think everyone was way younger than me.
I want to say thanks for posting that analogy about the chair legs. I can attest this is completely true. I am a classic over-doer, and I am now seeing clearly that every time I've had a good window, I've gone wild with 'doing', until I did too much and crashed. Sort of like trying to suddenly cram all the living I've missed into a day, or week.
I was doing very well last Nov. I was really over doing big time, and I got really stressed out from getting into too much stuff, then I got sick, twice, and had to take A/Bs twice in a row. Right after, this wave I'm in hit. This is by far the worst wave I've had in the last 2 years. I'm 4yr. 9 mo. drug free. I can see other waves I've had were brought on by one thing or another, but this last time I had all of them going on, over-doing, stress, sick, A/Bs, and now, Viola! BAD WAVE! I feel like such a dummy for letting this happen. I certainly plan to take it easy from here on, and not go this route again. Glad to find this site!


#95 Barbarannamated

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

I've noticed that age correlation also. Many women in 40-50s ...perhaps the age group that has most difficulty with withdrawal due to hormonal changes and searches for help..? Or reflecting on years of drugging and realizing that things are going in wrong direction? B @ 50
Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

#96 basildev

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:27 PM

I was wondering about that myself Barb. I'm turning 46 in a few months. I'm sure the whole hormonal thing doesn't help our cause. Altoid I resonate with what you've said. The last 2 weekends we've had people over for dinner. This would normally be a pleasurable thing for me but I believe that any change in my gentle routine seems to affect me in a negative way. So things I would normally be able to cope with have now become major stressors for me and subsequently, I feel poorly.

July 2001 prescribed 20mg citalopram for depression;
On and off meds from 2003-2006.
February 2006 back on 20mg citalopram and stayed on it until my last attempt at tapering in September 2011.
By far the worst withdrawal symptoms ever. Reinstated to 20mg citalopram
October 2012 - found this forum!
Nov 2012 to Feb 2013 did 10% taper, got doen to 11mg - was going great until stressful situation. Cortisol levels hit the roof, hideous insomnia forced me to updose to 20mg.
March 2016 - close to 100% back to normal!



****** I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience or reading and is only my perspective ******


#97 dunerbug

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:53 PM

Chiming in to say I'm 33 and I think I've got some hormonal stuff going on. Withdrawal has been hell and I was only on prozac for a little over two years in total. What's weird this month is I had a really good week right before I started my cycle. Yesterday I was on the bad heavy day of my period. I cried almost all through the day and leaked everywhere (Happy Mother's Day to me)and am now in another bad wave. I've noticed more frequent windows though. I'm hopeful.
Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010
Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010
Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010
Didn't work as good the second time around.
Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

#98 Altoid

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

I was thinking maybe the age thing is because people our age have reached poop out from having been on them a while. About three years ago I had gone to see an OB/GYN that I had never seen before. I’ve learned to just keep my mouth shut about w/d. But, for some reason I mentioned it to her. All she could say was that the symptoms I mentioned where those of menopause, and that they ‘treat’ meno with Paxil!! I thought, OMG, Good bye!!! So now older women are starting on it for meno. I’m sure the hormone thing is not helpful with w/d. I have just gone through a two month phase of incessant hot flashes, for which I have no idea if it truly is meno, or w/d. Someone I know in w/d told me she just read a post from a MAN who is having hot flashes. Who knows! Just FYI: I had CT'd Klonpin, then 6 mo. later dropped Paxil from 20 to 10. I was horrible ill. That was my main sx the entire time, was Paxhell flu. Given advise from 'The other site', they said I should reinstate the Paxil to 20 mg. and stabilize. I did go up on dose some, but not all the way to 20, and I waited an entire year, and never did 'stabilize'. I finally figured if I was that sick, I might as well get it over with, and finished off the CT. I believe in my case, that was the right move. Probably not for everyone though. But I was well into it and not getting better, and still on meds.

#99 Altostrata

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

I think older women are being disproportionately medicated with antidepressants. Make of that what you will.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#100 Altoid

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:52 AM

I wanted to share something a bit different. I have been trying to find a post I read here from someone that said they had a bad wave at 5 yr. off, then all sx left, permanently, and it has been 2 yrs. and they are still fine. I cannot find that. If anyone knows where it is, please let me know.

Anyway, for some reason I had it in my mind that the name was Spikenala. This person was on the other site, PP.  I found a post from him/her. Their story was they took only a few doses of Paxil, and had a severe adverse reaction to it and quite taking it. For months they would have bad waves that lasted a week or so, then a window, then wave, until it finally stopped. That was from only a few dosed of Paxil. Obviously a few doses is not enough time for receptors to be ruined, brain damage, etc.

So my thinking is that there must be something else at play here that causes these symptoms. I liken it to an LDS flashback.

If a person quit taking a drug, and 5 years later was feeling pretty much normal, then a wave of sx hit them, I just don't see how they could have been feeling normal at all if the receptors were still damaged.

Just a thought.



#101 Altostrata

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Rather than damaged receptors, I've found it more accurate to visualize post-acute withdrawal syndrome as autonomic dysregulation. The effects are generalized and when the nervous system is under stress, symptoms can reappear -- and go away again, as is common with autonomic issues.
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#102 Rhiannon

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think older women are being disproportionately medicated with antidepressants. Make of that what you will.

Well, it would certainly fit with the history of medicine and the historical medical treatment of women. I suspect women are more likely to be treated with psych meds in general at any age and particularly during and around menopause.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#103 alexjuice

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

... women are more likely to be treated with psych meds in general at any age and particularly during and around menopause.

This is true I think though maybe not in the case of the antispychotics but certainly with the benzos and certainly even more the case with the ADs... I think there is a post somewhere in the forum containing the data by demographic factors (including sex) which agrees with the overrepresentation of females...


"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#104 Rhiannon

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

Because we're so emotional, doncha know. And irrational and we get all upset about stuff that doesn't matter, like misogyny, for example, and rape, and stuff. And sometimes we just refuse to sit down and be quiet.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease" as I was told. Long and tragic story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything.

 

Now tapering, ironically (but not surprisingly) healthier and more functional than I ever was during the years on the "meds," even with withdrawal (usually fairly mild at this slow pace).

 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 14 2011:   86 mg Neurontin   144 Lamictal,    5.5 Celexa   0.42 Xanax      1.9 mg Valium

Feb 16 2012:   10 mg Neurontin   115 Lamictal     3.7 Celexa   0.285 Xanax     2.0 Valium

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

Now:                43                    0.625                 0.0775            1.3

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.


#105 alexjuice

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:42 AM

I know that more women than men suffer psychiatric treatment misapplication overall.

 

On a personal level I am a lot more familiar with my xperience. And I am not a woman


"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#106 Coleen

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:46 PM

Hoo boy. I have been off Effexor completely( after so many attempted tries)since July 6th. This has been absolute hell. I had hoped the recovery would be faster, but then, I was on it for 18 years, so what did I expect?

I have been taking 5HTP, Omega 3 and vitamin B. It has helped, but when I find I am in a situation that stresses me in the least, I feel like I fall right back into withdrawal. I feel hopeless, angry( really angry at times) and resentful. All the physical symptoms are nearly gone, except for the odd time I can hear my eyes moving( when I am really tired)

I guess I am asking for some good news- that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm not doomed to feel like this forever.( I couldn't live like this to be honest- I would have to go back on something, which I really don't want to do)


Effexor 75 mg for 3 yrs.
Effexor XR 75 mg for 10 yrs.
Effexor XR 150 mg for 5 years.
Currently at 37.5 and weaning slowly

#107 Jemima

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

5HTP may be aggravating your withdrawal because it has much the same effect as an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) on the nervous system.  This is much like taking an antidepressant.  There's a topic on 5HTP and Tryptophan in the 'Symptoms and self-care' discussion area if you care to read it.

 

Also, you don't say what B vitamin you're taking.  B-12 can be good for someone in withdrawal, but a lot of the B-complex is over-activating. Omega-3 is generally helpful, although some people have also found it too activating.

 

How did you taper the Effexor?

 

Wow, I just realized that you've never posted an Intro, so we have no idea of what's been going on since you joined us.  We can't be of much help under the circumstances.


Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#108 btdt

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:05 PM

Hoo boy. I have been off Effexor completely( after so many attempted tries)since July 6th. This has been absolute hell. I had hoped the recovery would be faster, but then, I was on it for 18 years, so what did I expect?
I have been taking 5HTP, Omega 3 and vitamin B. It has helped, but when I find I am in a situation that stresses me in the least, I feel like I fall right back into withdrawal. I feel hopeless, angry( really angry at times) and resentful. All the physical symptoms are nearly gone, except for the odd time I can hear my eyes moving( when I am really tired)
I guess I am asking for some good news- that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm not doomed to feel like this forever.( I couldn't live like this to be honest- I would have to go back on something, which I really don't want to do)

 
I too quit Effexor and sensed I could hear my eyeballs moving.  
I found this quite by accident a gift from the Gods one day. 
A scientific understanding of why this is happening.
 
Can You Hear Your Eyeballs Move?
Author:[Cerebrl]| Category: Biology, Health and Medicine | 02-19-07

This may seem like a question for a riddle or utter non-sense, but there are sufferers of an odd syndrome caused by serotonin and a little part of your brain called the nucleus accumbens. InScientific American Mar.‘07, there is a story of a neuroscientist that suffered from a horrid grating noise coming from his eyeballs while he tries to fall asleep.
Now before you start reading on, I want you to keep this thought in the back of your head:“Do you perceive the world around you as it really is, or just as your brain wants to interpret it?” Hopefully I have not lost you by now, but keep up as this gets interesting.
The story starts with Douglas Fields, the neuroscientist with “loud” eyeballs. In attending a neuroscience meeting in Atlanta, Georgia, he sat down with a college friend of his to have a couple of beers at a bar. When Douglas noticed Josef Rauschecker ofGeorgetown University drinking a beer as well, he acquired enough courage to ask him about his really unique problem since he knew Josef was an authority on the auditory cortex. Once Douglas gets his attention and starts describing how his eyeballs start to make a loud, irritating noise as soon as he tries to go to sleep, the guy sitting right next to him says,“Me, too!” Who knows what the actual likelihood of this happening is…but let me go on.
Once the two recover from being dumbfounded over this very strange, unique coincidence, Josef blurts out,“I know what your problem is.” Douglas thinks to himself:
What are the chances of meeting someone else who shares my oddball noise and in front of the only person in the world who could understand it?

Josef goes on to say that their problem is serotonin.“Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that stimulates neurons in the nucleus accumbens (NA) to activate it.” The nucleus accumbens or NA is basically an input regulation device. It allows a certain amount of sensory input into the conscious mind depending on what “we” are doing at that time. When one is deeply focused on a specific task, the NA will block out or heavily regulate unwanted noise or other sensory input. A good example is the selective hearing that men are so good at while watching a football game. His NA is blocking out the talking of his wife, so that he can continue watching his football game uninterrupted.
What does this mean for good old Douglas and his friend? Well, when Douglas was younger he injured his inner ear, and when his nerve fibers sprouted to repair the damage some of them “miss-wired” and ended up cross-wiring to his circuits that are responsible for vision and balance. So, some of the sensory input from his eyes that should go to his visual cortex ended up going to his auditory cortex causing him to hear his eyes move. How does that sound [Pun intended]?
Serotonin comes into play to control what the NA lets through when one tries to “fall” asleep. So when Douglas starts to enter into his twilight sleep, his NA falls asleep as well, allowing him to hear his eyeballs move. The same action occurs when he wakes up. Fortunately, all Douglas has to do is adjust his serotonin and he should never hear his eyeballs again.
After I originally read this story, I couldn’t stop thinking about how this proves that our reality is nothing but electrical inputs, and how we trust our brains to interpret them correctly. It is our brain that will decide what is essential and what is not. But, what if our brain does not interpret them in the way that represents what is really “out there”. What does that do to our sense of “reality”. So, is the world around you really like what you think it is, or is your brain wrong? I guess we will never know. But what can be learned from the above incredible story, is what you think you perceive may not be “really” reality
http://www.blog4brai...2/19/can-you...


Edited by Petu, 16 January 2014 - 11:52 PM.
fixed text

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)