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baroquep: Pristiq Taper Help - Advice Needed

introductions and udates tapering support desvenlafaxine Pristiq Pristiq to Effexor bridge

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#37 baroquep

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:39 PM

thanks for your reply.  am going to read those posts, thanks ... yes, after much too much thought am worried that if I go back to Pristiq now, it is just going to make things a lot worse.  really thought all was well.  woke up this morning with anxiety and it just progressed from there.  Maybe Effexor isn't a good drug for me as I've never in my life had such intense anxiety and paranoid thoughts. Tried to calm myself down with positive self-talk/deep breathing on the way to work to no avail, my brain just wasn't having any of it.  My God, I haven't even made the first reduction yet!!!  Obviously won't do a reduction until my brain settles down but if this is something that I'm going to have to deal with on a regular basis, I don't think I'm going to be able to go to work and function like a normal person ... way too much stress at work as it is, and then adding this mind twisting anxiety to the mix is debilitating.  Honestly can't understand, and I guess it really doesn't matter, but how on earth have these companies managed to gets these drugs approved!!!    My mind is now working overtime trying to figure out a way to get this poison out of my body and brain as soon as possible.  Maybe by doing a bridge with Prozac and taking time off of work to get over that twisted nightmare ... I feel so alone and that I'm spiralling into madness.  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#38 ChessieCat

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:57 PM

I can understand your fear.  And I understand that it can difficult, but please don't add fear to the anxiety.  If you can stop adding fear to the mix then that is one less thing that your brain is trying to cope with.  JanCarol finds the legs up the wall yoga position helpful:  Yoga for calming (very simple poses can help greatly)

 

And one thing at a time.  Remember that we discussed the possibility that 75mg Effexor may not be the equivalent of 50mg Pristiq.  This is why I think adding a small amount of additional Effexor may be the best option at the moment.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

The Prozac Bridge works for some and not others.  If it were me, I wouldn't even be considering this at this time.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#39 baroquep

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 03:34 PM

Can't contain my thoughts in a rational manner, it felt like I was doing okay but thinking back, pretty sure the anxiety has been present for the entire time and I've been trying to convince myself that I'm okay, when really I'm not.  Like I'm in some kind of alternate universe.   I'm really trying not to fall into the fear but it is hard as hell as my brain just isn't cooperating.  If I didn't have to go to work everyday, I could manage this for sure, wouldn't have to pretend that I'm sane ... guess I am going to have to try and add a few balls of Effexor to what I'm taking now and see if that helps or get a prescription from my doctor for ativan or something similar.  Maybe 75mg really isn't enough Effexor and it was too big a drop from the Pristiq, guess I'm never going to know for sure and pointless to ruminate and just make things more difficult.  Thanks for responding.  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#40 ChessieCat

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 03:46 PM

If you add something else into the mix and issues arise, you will not be able to tell what is causing what.  Sticking to the drug you are on and trying to stabilise on it is usually the best way to go.  People become addicted to benzos very quickly and then have the added issue of getting off that as well.

 

I realise you are trying to find a solution to your problem but it is best to start with what is, in this case I think, possibly the most obvious.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#41 ChessieCat

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 03:47 PM

If you do decide to updose, please make sure you keep notes on paper so we can see if it is helping/worsening the situation.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#42 baroquep

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 03:57 PM

yes, I will keep notes on what I do next.  so undecided what to do and will revisit tomorrow once I've had some sleep.  yes, just trying to figure out a way to stay sane at work but probably not a good idea to add an addictive drug to the mix. perhaps tomorrow I will be able to make a more rational decision. Thanks again.


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#43 ChessieCat

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 04:23 PM

This might be helpful:  http://hulpgids.nl/a...es/pdf/DESS.pdf


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#44 ChessieCat

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 06:51 PM

Found this in another member's topic and thought it would be helpful to have it in your own:

 

Hi KTP, good question, it's been so long since I did the switch from E to P, that I honestly don't remember (didn't occur to me at the time of the switch back but is a very good question).  The viral infection cleared up completely and though my family doctor thought it might have been caused by Effexor, we didn't investigate further as she switched me.  Might be a good idea to keep an eye on that now that I'm back on Effexor.  

I was on 50P and switched to 75E (XR) .  I take it first thing in the morning and am now more diligent about taking it at the same time every morning.  The anxiety has settled again though when I have it, it is pretty frightening and I get sucked into the fear each time.  

Have made an appointment to see a naturopath who is experienced in helping people off of antidepressants as I think I"m going to need a little support to get through the days when the anxiety is really bad.  So far I've had two really bad days though the rest have been tolerable (head pressure, nausea, rubbery arms, diarrhea, loss of appetite, blurry eyesight, general malaise).  I thought about getting a script for some type of benzo for the days of extreme anxiety but ChessieCat thinks it's best not to add another drug (especially an addictive drug) to the mix.  

The only reason I considered switching to the Prozac is that I can't imagine going through two or three years of withdrawal.  The anxiety and the thoughts that seem to go along with it have been pretty debilitating, so much so that it makes me feel like I"m losing my mind.  Thought with the help of the naturopath, I'd get down to 37.5 of Effexor and then bridge to Prozac and get off of that in a couple of months.  This naturopath has experience doing this and has had success with this approach.  Getting off all medication as quickly and as safely as possible seems so appealing to me.  

End up go back and forth everyday whether to just accept that it will take me a couple of years to get off this garbage or do a quick bridge off with Prozac.  Guess the next few decreases down to 37.5 over the next six months will determine what I'll ultimately end up doing.  If the 10% decreases aren't too bad, maybe I'll just hang in there and take it slow and easy.  Either way, I"m going to see the Naturopath for moral support and see how things progress.  Thanks for your response, helps to know that other people are going through this and not feel so alone :)


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#45 ChessieCat

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 06:54 PM

Some people find acupuncture helpful:

 

acupuncture

See:  Posts #6 & 8


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#46 nz11

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 09:00 PM

Hi Baroquep

 

Discovered your thread by reading that quote cc put here in another thread.

I have just read your entire thread as i am interested in following your situation as well as having a personal interest in the equiv dose ratios.

 

I agree with cc in that you dont want to add further drugs that cause dependency to the mix. It could trigger drug creep.

 

I am starting the switch on Thursday and the following month and subsequent months she will be reducing the dosage by 5% of the previous month's dosage.  It will probably take me close to two years to slowly wean off of this drug but because I've been on antidepressants for so long (with negligible benefit), I'd like to try and have as smooth a transition off of this medication as possible.

....(...)....I can't imagine feeling this way for another four years which is how long it's going to take if I slowly wean at a 5% reduction per month. 

I like your idea to taper at 5% per 4 week intervals, i think that is very wise.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but im not sure how you have calculated the two yrs taper time or the 4 yrs taper time but at 5% with drops every 4 weeks it will take about 6.5 years to taper from 75mg to 1mg.

 

 

will make an appointment with Dr. Jonathan Prousky as he has a lot of experience weaning people off these drugs and his fees are

reasonable.

He will work with both my family doctor and pharmacist to tweak (if necessary) the reduction plan that is in place now.

I am aware of that article/study by Prousky and although i'm no doctor i found it very disappointingly substandard imo and in fact his tapering was simply dangerous and ignorant and would not have been rec by sa. [Look at person 13 as just one example ..Prousky tapered that person for 3 months and no wonder they ended up in hospital, the 10% taper method would have meant no faster than 3 yrs to taper ]

Perhaps he has changed his views and it is good that he is happy to fit in with your 5% plan. 

 

It would have been interesting to hear what CAMH advice would be.

 

Thought with the help of the naturopath, I'd get down to 37.5 of Effexor and then bridge to Prozac and get off of that in a couple of months.  This naturopath has experience doing this and has had success with this approach.  

I would be asking to talk to one of these so called success stories before acting on any of their rec's.

Personally if the advise is contrary to sa advice then i would be following sa advice.

 

Before you even consider the prozac bridge you should read about the info on it cc gave you above.

imo the bridge to prozac comes with no guarantees and for many they end up in a delayed mess and have to go back to prior drug. Some end up in a double jeopardy of getting stuck on prior drug and prozac. It is far better to taper the drug you are on imo.

Personally i find it difficult to understand how the prozac bridge can magically heal the pharma altered brain in a couple of months as well as shorten the taper time by 6 yrs. 

Doctors have been told that the long half life of prozac makes weaning easy, not fact. First, switching can create havoc on the brain(prozac can be very anxiety producing) and the long half life truly only delays the symptoms.

 

Getting off all medication as quickly and as safely as possible seems so appealing to me.

I totally get it. We all want this poison out of us once we realise we have been drugged inappropriately and harmfully. 

I found it very humiliating and angering when i realised the situation i was in thanks to trusting a doctor. The thing is there is no shortcut out of this.

Unless you are prepared to suck up years of being left a nonfunctional unemployable human.

 

 

Good luck with the decision making, maybe if things are difficult it may be worth holding for another month or two until things stabilize.

If things are unbearable then rather than add other drugs to the mix i agree with cc and consider updosing the effexor.

It appears that 50 mg of pristiq could be equivalent to anything from 50 to 150 mg of effexor. You have entered it at the low end of the continuum so if you can hold it at the 50 dose you are doing well.

 

Hang in there

Hope it settles soon.

So glad and appreciative you have popped back in to update after a long break from sa.

nz11


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#47 baroquep

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:45 PM

Hi nz11, thanks for your thought provoking comments, they are very helpful.  Sigh, yes, do not have a lot of options.  I know that it's obviously best to do a slow taper but when the anxiety creeps in, my mind goes all over the place and my first thoughts are to get this **** out of my body as quickly as possible.  

Unfortunately CAMH only provides a one time appointment with a psychiatrist and at this time I just don't want to go that route as I don't think many doctors or psychiatrists are well versed in weaning people off of these drugs properly.  SA is my first line of informed information and will not make any decisions about my care unless I run it by people here first.

I agree that Jonathan Prousky's weaning methods seem pretty radical and I won't just listen to whatever he recommends. I listened to my family doctor even though I didn't want to be on antidepressants and here I sit physically and psychologically addicted to a drug that I don't want in my body!!!   There is another website that I was reading [wendy-nielson]  and it seemed like there were a number of people (based on the comments) that had good success weaning off of Effexor using the Prozac bridge.  When I'm going through the anxiety, it seems like a viable solution though I am sceptical and cautious (but still hopeful) at the same time.

My plan today (sans the intense anxiety) is to wean the first 10% on October 15th which will be a full month since I made the switch from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg and see how that goes.  If all goes well, I am planning on reducing 10% of the previous month's dose and slow the taper down to 5% once I get around 37.5 as based on my previous attempts it is easier to reduce more when the dose is higher.  

I would have to say, based on my experience, that Pristiq 50mg is likely closer to 100mg (maybe even more) of Effexor as CCat suspected.  I may have had a bit better of a landing had I started a little higher on the Effexor and decreased from there.  Then again, if the switch did result in a 25% reduction as CCat believes, I'm happy to get that out of my system despite the two days of intense anxiety as I've had more good days than bad.  Guess no one said that this is going to be easy!!!  

Now that I know what this anxiety (wave?) does to me and my thought process, I'll either call in sick on those days or just leave work if things get really bad.  Problem is is that my thinking gets so muddled and irrational, that I'm just going to have to remember that I have that option.  Today I feel sane and rational, and that what I've just written makes complete sense ... wonder what tomorrow is going to bring?


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#48 ChessieCat

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:58 PM

"Problem is is that my thinking gets so muddled and irrational, that I'm just going to have to remember that I have that option."

 

My daughter made a suggestion to me recently about "checking in with myself" to see how I was.  Because I knew that I would probably forget and sometimes things creep up slowly and then all of a sudden I am in a bad state, I set a timer for an hour during the morning (and it became easier to do it without the timer in the afternoon) just so I could be reminded and I would stop and think, okay, how am I feeling, what thoughts am I having.  This meant that I could nip it in the bud and do some controlled deep breathing before it became too much of a problem and harder to deal with.

 

It was such a simple thing and was/is so helpful.  That was back in April and I find that it has now become a part of what I do without using a timer.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#49 nz11

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 04:27 PM

oops correction i meant to say 75 not 50 as per my above post.

apologies


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#50 baroquep

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 05:43 AM

Week three after the switch is much more bearable.  Still getting days where I have anxiety, but finding the anxiety mild, fleeting and manageable.  Starting to feel a little more like myself again.  Made an appointment for next Saturday with Jonathan Prousky but might cancel as after re-reading his withdrawal methods, I think they may be a bit too extreme.  My main concern was to withdrawal from these drugs to minimize and hopefully eliminate the withdrawal symptoms so I can function at work.  Two, three or more years seems like forever to get off of these drugs but as sanity prevails, I guess I'm in for the long haul  :mellow:


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#51 nz11

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 10:52 AM

Baroque this is great news that you are stabilizing and managing to hold the switch.

 

 

Prousky is a chief naturopathic medical officer and   is 'infatuated' (his words not mine) with the ideas of 'Abram Hoffer ' which involves treating people with the alternative approach of   micro nutrients.

This is all good and great imo for psych drug naive brains.

Keep in mind Hoffer was developing views and  working primarily in the 1950s prior to the advent of pharmaceutical ssri onslaught.

Sadly for Hoffer "nutritional psychiatry", (later orthomolecular psychiatry), ideas were consistently rejected by mainstream journals because they were unacceptable to the medical establishment.

I really like what Prousky says he is very aware of the iatrogenic drug epidemic and its harms just not sure he is aware of the 'slowness' of slow tapering.

 

 

Let us know what you decide to do .

Wishing you continued stabilizing.

 

nz11

Putting hopes and trust for getting off these drugs in Carrots Broccoli and Trimmings of vitamin c gives two chances of tapering success slim and none...and Slim left town'.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#52 baroquep

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:05 PM

Hi NZ, thanks for your post.  

 

Cancelled my appointment with Dr. Prousky as I think he tapers people too quickly and it will be too difficult to try and stabilize once in withdrawal.  

 

Spent the last two days on SA reading Effexor tapering stories and read Hudgen's entire thread today (one of the very few success stories I could find).  It seems that people inevitably run into difficulty when they try to taper too quickly (greater than 10%) and have decided to taper at 10% for each monthly cut and see how that goes.  

Anxiety is pretty much gone now and judging from my reaction to the switch (and possible 25% reduction), the withdrawal symptoms were the worst at the beginning and extended slightly into the third week so I should be able to gauge when I can make each 10% cut, be it at one month or six weeks.  My first 10% cut is this Saturday and hoping that all will go well.  

Have calculated that it is going to take me approximately 3.5 years to get off this drug and likely longer as the cuts will have to get smaller as my dose gets smaller.  Kind of mad at myself for not starting this taper years ago when I first found SA in early 2015, as I would have been two years into the taper by now ... sigh!!!  
 


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#53 nz11

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 07:24 PM

Hi Baroquep,

Sorry if i put you off from seeing Prousky. I actually think he is probably a very nice and safe person to talk to. I think all the info on tapering safely is right here at sa.

This is it you are at the coalface right here.

I think it would have been interesting to hear what he had to say especially regarding why his study had no placebo cohort.

Anyway sounds like you are in control and have an informed  plan and thats going to lead to success for sure.

 

Funny was just thinking doing a study on tapering that lasts more than a few months probably would be inconvienent but consulting with someone doing a 5 yr taper on a monthly basis is probably a financial boon. So tapering for many years ...no problem. Sorry just being cynical.

 

This is wonderful that you are currently anxiety free wow you are writing the book on the p: e switch ratio.

Do you really think you are stable enough to do the first cut?

 

Dont worry you are not alone wishing you had found this place sooner. Anyway just to find this place is something millions havent as yet.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#54 ChessieCat

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:08 PM

Hi baroquep,

 

Really pleased that things are settling down for you.  Please don't rush to make the first cut.  It just isn't worth it.  Please consider holding at least until the end of October to see if any delayed issues arise.  That would give you about a 6 week hold.  I suggested previously to have at a least a 2 month hold, and if it were me that is what I would do.  I did a 2 month hold after I dropped my dose by 25% to 75mg Pristiq and realised later that I probably would have done better holding for an additional month but I was in a catch 22 situation because of mild serotonin toxicity.  Once I got to 50mg I did a much longer hold.

 

My concern is that if you start tapering too soon you could end up with bad withdrawal symptoms down the track and once that happens it seems that it can be hard to get stabilised again.  Members who go too quickly and then have to updose seem to end up taking longer to taper than if they had been patient and tapered and held as recommended by SA.

 

It's not a race.  The intention is to get off the drug with minimal withdrawal symptoms so that you can live as normal a life as possible.  I've been a member here for nearly 12 months now and have read many members' topics where they have tried to go too fast and it has backfired on them.

 

If you do decide to go ahead and taper soon than the end of October, please consider doing a smaller than 10% cut, maybe 5%?  And in the scheme of things, an extra month or 2 is not that much.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#55 baroquep

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 02:45 PM

Hi CCat, Woke up this morning and was thinking the exact same thing.  Am going to contact my family doctor and get her to write another script for two weeks at 75mg.  It's a really hard decision to continue to hold as I want this crap out of my system but absolutely know it is best to err on the side of caution.  I have become obsessed with the whole situation ... counting down the pills every single day to figure out the days until my first cut (God I sound like a drug addict, lol)  :wacko: ... then I got to work ...

 

today wasn't a very good day, while the anxiety is gone, new symptoms started up this morning and are still with me tonight.  Was thinking that maybe I forgot to take the Effexor this morning and was disappointed when I got home to find that I hadn't.  At least that would have explained the strange sensations, almost like a cloud enveloping my brain and eyeballs if that make any sense.   Feeling a little rubbery tonight as well.  Took me by surprise and it was hard to focus at work once they started up.  After having a good four days in a row where I felt totally normal (despite being addicted to this drug), it is very disappointing.

Wondering now if I should have just left well enough alone and stayed on the Pristiq and had it compounded.  When reducing Pristiq previously, I could make large cuts without any difficulty until I got down to the smaller doses.  I didn't know anything about holding back then and obviously would do it a lot differently today.  If additional withdrawal continues into the next two weeks, I may just go back on the Pristiq, do a very long hold, at least six months, and then try another slow, slow, slow taper off of that.  Planning to sleep on it for the next two weeks and see where things are at by the end of October.  Thanks for your support, experience and knowledge, it's very much appreciated.  

Hi NZ, no, you didn't turn me off from seeing Dr. Prousky, I just felt that it's better to wait and see him when I have a well-established a taper program already in place.  Want this drug out of my system so badly, just don't trust myself if anyone pressures me to go faster.  Don't know if I'll be the one to write the book on E to P as it hasn't been going as well as I'd thought it would.  Had expected that there would be difficulties towards the end of my taper but not so much at the beginning of what is going to be a long journey to eventual freedom.  When I made the switch from Effexor to Pristiq years ago, I didn't skip a beat but the switch back to Effexor has been a bit of a challenge.  Thanks for your encouragement.

I'll have to say that anti-deppresants are most definitely addictive and "discontinuance syndrome" is an insult to any intelligent human being.  When a person can't function beyond a day unless they have this drug in their system, that is withdrawal no matter how they want to pretty it up so it doesn't sound as bad as it is :angry: .  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#56 ChessieCat

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:47 PM

Changes that you make (drug or dose) are cumulative.  What worked previously may not work for you next time.  Each change you make destabilises your CNS a bit more.  If you do it too often there will come a time when your CNS will say, no, I can't do this anymore!!!

 

The fact that you are getting some good days or partial good days is a very good sign.  Check out the links I gave you in this post.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#57 baroquep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:09 AM

I will re-read the links, again.  Maybe they will make more sense to me now that my mind is a little clearer.  Feeling okay today, so far.  Might be that I forgot to take the Omega 3s, Vitamin B12 and Evening Primrose Oil when I woke up yesterday and thus the resulting uncomfortable brain sensations.  Honestly don't know what I'm going to do at this point.  If the symptoms subside, I'll stick to the Effexor, if they continue beyond the next two weeks to a month, I will definitely have to reevaluate.  Do understand that the effects are cumulative and have to be careful.  Guess my expectations were too high and I'll have to lower the bar a bit, I mean a lot ...  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#58 baroquep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:13 AM

NZ, If you have the opportunity, and can manage the monthly visits, go for it.  I wish there was a study here in Canada, would do it in a heartbeat.  Don't think the pharmaceutical companies care enough about what these drugs do to people as long as they are making money.  Nothing will ever change unless people start being really vocal.  Am going to start writing letters ...   


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#59 nz11

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 10:08 AM

  Nothing will ever change unless people start being really vocal.  Am going to start writing letters ...   

You have made my day.

Fantastic idea.

 

nz11


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#60 baroquep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:11 PM

CCat, I am reading some of the information on toxicantidepressants.com and it is freaking me out.  Scaring me actually.  My God, I had no idea ... do people actually get better once they are off these drugs?  

 

Perhaps every doctor, pharmaceutical rep/executive and any other person whose livelihood has been enhanced by the peddling of these drugs should be forced to take them for at least a decade and then have them promptly discontinued without an adequate taper ...   :angry:


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#61 ChessieCat

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:00 PM

I'm starting to feel so much better now that my dose is lower.  I noticed a big difference just before getting to 50mg and I'm noticing another difference now that I am lower than 50mg.  Today I'm actually doing some vacuuming which I will admit I haven't done for at least 4 months.  I know that sounds terrible but I just haven't been able to do it.  It's taken me all of my mental and physical effect just to do the basics most of the time.  I live by myself so it only impacts me.  I went through a stage where I knew things needed to be done but just couldn't be bothered, then I started wanting to do them but wasn't able to do so physically, now I am starting to be able to do more physically.  I'm pacing myself carefully because I don't want to wipe myself out so I'm vacuuming a bit here and then doing something else that isn't as physical and then going back to it.

 

Have you read Gia's story?  She is a real worse case scenario but she is healing.  I suggest you check her out.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#62 baroquep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:04 PM

Guess I better start writing a journal so that I can gauge where I am down the road.  Tomorrow will be exactly one month since I've been off Pristiq and switched to Effexor. Today minor symptoms of withdrawal/adjustment, just a spacey detached feeling but able to function well at work.  The cloud around my brain/eyes from yesterday is gone and whatever anxiety I had is very far away, though it feels like I could still touch it.  Metallic taste in my mouth is back again.  

Pharmacist said that even reducing this slowly will still cause withdrawal symptoms but as the drug continues to decrease in my system I will start to feel a lot better.  I don't know why I'm surprised by this ... guess I thought (and was counting on) that the worst of it wasn't going to start until the very end.  The thought of navigating windows and waves for the next 3 to 4 years is disheartening but I am going to proceed regardless as I want this crap out of my brain/system.  Started taking niacinamide (once today) along with the Omega 3s (four times a day), vitamin B12 (once a day) and evening primrose oil (twice a day) which I didn't forget to take today and bought back-ups to keep at work just in case.  Maybe it's a placebo effect but really do think that it helps me.  

Have decided to wait for another two weeks (or more) to make my first 10% decrease.  Just talked to the pharmacist and she is giving me another month of Effexor just in case.  I don't know if it is going to get any better than this two weeks down the road, but think it's important to try to start this long journey off on the right foot.  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#63 ChessieCat

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:18 PM

"even reducing this slowly will still cause withdrawal symptoms"

 

We can still expect to get withdrawal symptoms, sometimes the same symptom comes and goes and then returns, and sometimes a new one will arise.  The idea of doing the holds in between taper drops, is so our brain adapts during that time and that the symptoms will be mild or if a bit worse than mild, then short-term, and that we can still live our lives as normally as possible.

 

I personally have found it to be helpful to notice withdrawal symptom/s but not to obsess over them.  I just think, yes, I know that that is withdrawal or that might be a withdrawal symptom, which means that I am not scared of it, and then go about my live as much as I can.  The symptom which I think has impacted me the most in the last year is the ear pressure.  Even though it isn't painful it is uncomfortable when I move my head, not on off-balance feeling but borderline.

 

I've already given you the non-drug techniques list here in this post.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#64 baroquep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:21 PM

Hi CCat, we must have been writing at the same time, lol.  It is very good to hear that you are getting better as you reduce your dose.  Gives me a little more hope, especially after reading the info on toxicantidepressants.com.  I did find Gia through an internet search but haven't finished her video, will do that this weekend.  Not sure where I found it, but determination is back and might finally join a mindfulness group as it might be a useful tool to learn.  Maybe that will help with the obsessiveness.  Wishing you continued healing.


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#65 JanCarol

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 07:17 AM

Hey Bareoquep - 

 

Perhaps every doctor, pharmaceutical rep/executive and any other person whose livelihood has been enhanced by the peddling of these drugs should be forced to take them for at least a decade and then have them promptly discontinued without an adequate taper ...    :angry:

 

As someone who - just this week - had a doctor offer not one, but 3 drugs - psych drugs for "fibromyalgia" - I wholeheartedly agree.  Why should I choose a daily drug for life - or - one that takes years to get off of?  She is obviously oblivious to the burden these drugs place on our lives...

 

Chessie said:

We can still expect to get withdrawal symptoms, sometimes the same symptom comes and goes and then returns, and sometimes a new one will arise.  The idea of doing the holds in between taper drops, is so our brain adapts during that time and that the symptoms will be mild or if a bit worse than mild, then short-term, and that we can still live our lives as normally as possible.

 

She may have given you these earlier, but I think she is talking about:  

Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms

Waves and Windows

and the myriads of possible symptoms, of which this is just a sample:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's Most Common symptoms of Withdrawal

 

Have calculated that it is going to take me approximately 3.5 years to get off this drug and likely longer as the cuts will have to get smaller as my dose gets smaller.  Kind of mad at myself for not starting this taper years ago when I first found SA in early 2015, as I would have been two years into the taper by now ... sigh!!!  

 

Yeah.  We are sooooooo goal oriented, cross the finish line by such-and-such a date and all that.  Throw away your calendar, and I'll tell you some good news.

 

It might take 10 years to taper.  Why is that good news?

 

Because you are in control of your taper now.  Not 3, not 5, not 10 years from now, but now.

 

And it gets better.  Because you can choose when is a "good time" or a "not so good time" to taper.  You can choose when to have symptoms, and you will learn exactly when your body says it's a good idea to taper.  

 

You will learn skills you never thought you would have before - like - how to survive emotional and physical symptoms.  The traumas that sent you to the drugs in the first place will pale by comparison - because you will be a warrior who has survived.  You will be one of the ones left standing on the battlefield.  You will learn to recognize when a situation is harmful, and you will no longer tolerate abuse (whether personal, societal, relationship, job, whatever.)  You will learn to say no!

 

And it gets better still - because once you have tapered down to the ut-oh point (hmmm.  That's explained here:  http://survivinganti...-concentration/ ) - if you have taken your taper s-l-o-w-l-y and your body thinks that all this healing is good - 

 

You will feel better, much better!  You may still, at this point have a year or two or 4 of tapering to go, but it won't matter, because you will be so much better than you were before, than you are now.  Maybe that last 1 mg will take you 10 years.  So what?  The drug will no longer be toxic, and you will have your brain, your nervous system, and hopefully, your life back!

 

I hope you see the sun today!


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#66 baroquep

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 01:41 PM

Hi JanCarol, thank you so much for your extremely uplifting and supportive message.  Think I've worked my way through all the rationalizations for withdrawing as quickly as possible.  Thankfully common sense and wise words from people here have convinced me that their collective experience is invaluable and something that shouldn't be ignored.  Imagine I'm not the first person to feel this way ... or the last.  Thanks again for your kind words, your message made me feel like a million bucks after reading it and am much happier and more confident with the decision to go a little slower.  All the best to you!!!

 


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#67 baroquep

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 01:54 PM

One full month since the switch today.  No withdrawal symptoms at all, feeling good.  Thinking maybe my subconscious mind is relieved that I picked up the new prescription for another month of Effexor at 75mg.  My plan is to wait until I have had at least 14 consecutive days of relief from any major symptoms before making the first 10% cut.  Onwards and upwards  :)


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#68 ChessieCat

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 02:36 PM

"all the rationalizations for withdrawing as quickly as possible.  ...   Imagine I'm not the first person to feel this way ... or the last."

 

No you aren't the first, and neither was I.  To begin with I felt driven to start tapering.  It was amazing how strong the drive was.  However, after the first few drops I became hesitant to drop, because after feeling okay for a while I didn't want to feel awful again.

 

"wait until I have had at least 14 consecutive days of relief from any major symptoms"

 

That's the way!!!  Listen to your body.  I tried to do a drop yesterday but by mid afternoon I had mild ear pain/pressure again and recognised it straight away as a withdrawal symptom so I went and took the balance of my dose.  Not long after I felt okay again.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#69 baroquep

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 06:00 PM

Had a pretty good day today, though tonight I have rubber arms and a sore throat.  The sore throat is a symptom that comes and goes.  The rubber arms can feel a bit unnerving but it has only happened a few times now.  Because of the anxiety, I backed off exercising for fear of triggering brain zaps, etc. Am going to try and get back to lifting weights and see if it is something I can continue to do.  It helps with stress and my old lady arms.  Hope that it doesn't upset my nervous system.  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)


#70 ChessieCat

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 06:10 PM

Pleased to hear that your symptoms aren't too bad.  With regards to exercising and weight lifting I suggest you start gentle, light and build up gradually.  Your CNS has been destabilised and what you might have done before may cause issues now.  Six Mistakes I've Made in Withdrawal .  Maybe start with cans of baked beans :P  Actually I had to lift the bonnet of my car recently and it doesn't have gas lift.  It was hard enough lifting it with two hands and then I had to hold it up with one whilst I put the rod in to hold it up.

 

I've been fairly sedentary over the last year and have just recently started being able to do a bit more each day.  However I'm not pushing it.  I do a bit of this or that and then have a break.  I know that if I try and do too much in one go, I'll be wrecked for the next day and possibly the one after.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#71 JanCarol

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 10:34 PM

Hey Baroquep - 

 

Am going to try and get back to lifting weights and see if it is something I can continue to do.  It helps with stress and my old lady arms.  Hope that it doesn't upset my nervous system.  

 

I just started a weightlifting program last month.  I called it "in training for travel," which is coming up soon. 

 

It improved my pain profile, my strength, and many things. Weightlifting or circuit training is probably better than cardio for folks in withdrawal.

 

When in withdrawal, it could be harsh - but you're not a testosterone driven manly man who is going to overlift - so here's a way to approach the gym (I say this as a former bodybuilder who recently returned my 200 lb wobbly jelly big-bellied body to a gym after 2 years of no "working out"  I am a 54 yo woman.)....

 

  • Choose weights that are so light you can do 15-20 reps.
  • Do the reps slowly, with holds and extra slow in the middle.  (I like to pause, for example, mid bicep curl, and just feel the weight there - hold it.  Holding is hard work!)
  • Do only one set of each type that you are doing.
  • B-R-E-A-T-H-E.  Coordinating breathing with muscle movements helps improve your stress response.  Scientific fact.
  • Core work.  Strengthening your core also improves your stress response.  Another scientific fact!
  • and
  • Listen to good music.  Don't rely on the random stuff the gym plays.  Choose music that is good for you, that inspires you, and close yourself off in your earbuds and **enjoy** yourself.  
  • The moment it feels like drudgery, go home.  The point is to use your body for pleasure, not pain.

 

I've gotten, after a month of gym visits, so that I can be wobbly weak as I leave the gym, and not "crash."  Just this time last year, I could get a physio treatment and "crash" for 3 days - stuck in the house, no energy, fatigue, weak, and in pain.  (adrenal issues - which - withdrawal can mimic adrenal issues)

 

However, it's better to take it easy.  See what others have said about exercise, here:

http://survivinganti...worked-for-you/

 

I hope you see the sun today!  It's looking good, so far!  You can do this!


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#72 baroquep

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:15 PM

Thanks CCat/JanCarol, managed to read quite a few posts to realize that tolerance to exercise is very individual.  Figured I won't know my own capacity unless I go for it.  Did a workout today and felt fantastic afterwards, really nice to feel the sweat on my brow.   Probably won't feel any negative effects to my nervous systems until tomorrow so fingers crossed.  

 

 

Daily Journal - Feeling really good today.  Woke up with a sore throat but it was gone in about an hour.  Managed to get housework and laundry done this weekend which had been neglected after a couple of bad weeks. Feeling more optimistic that things have settled down and that the worst of it is over.  Don't feel quite as obsessed about the whole withdrawal process ... which is a very very good thing.  


Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism

Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg 
November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 (holding until I stabilize)






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: introductions and udates, tapering, support, desvenlafaxine, Pristiq, Pristiq to Effexor bridge