MorningHunter seeking support while detoxing

[MorningHunter]

Thanks and hugs to Slianne and everyone else posting here.  This is my first post online relating to my psych med detox.  I've been on antidepressants continuously since 1995, including a number of different cocktails, but finally settling on Effexor XR 300 mg and Klonopin 2mg daily for the past 15 years (with a few additions and deletions of other meds along the way).  I've signed a few forms stating I have the right to refuse a labotomy (HAHAHA - not), and never came out of a psych hospital any better than I went in; once even ending up in a regular hospital on my deathbed from side effects from the meds given me in the psych hospital.  No joke. 

 

After reading some of Robert Whitaker's work and that of Will Hall, I consulted my inner self and determined the psych meds were doing me more harm than good.  I've since poured through writings online regarding the long term usefulness of psych meds and how to detox off.  What I've learned is that everyone must make their own decision of what to do and how to do it.  I honor everyone's choice to decide.  For me, it is time to get off it all.  If I thought I would live through it, I would stop cold turkey.  Today it feels like I am taking poison.  But as I looked in my pill box this morning, I was impressed to see a little itty bitty 75mg dosage of Effexor (Venlafaxine) in there, rather than the two mongo 150 mg pills that were there last November.  I'm making progress.

 

I try not to look back.  I'm a textbook case of deterioration over the years.  I'm currently on SSDI and live with my husband, two dogs and a kitty.  My home is a refuge of kindness (thank goodness), but also my prison.  I am afraid to go out by myself.  I do take the dogs for a 2 mile walk daily.  Unfortunately this morning I realized it has been so long since I took a shower that I can't even take the dogs out until I take care of that.  Figuring out the steps to get myself cleaned up seem so daunting that I haven't started.  But here I am typing coherently into this computer wondering what is the problem with me!!  Yesterday I spend the day in bed with a few hours upright on the couch watching mindless TV.  I read a lot to escape (historical fiction is my favorite - not to be confused with romantic historical fiction .

 

When I see my psychologist (every 2 weeks), she asks me so many questions that I end up staring at her as if she is an alien, or maybe the alien is me.  Shouldn't I be able to comprehend those questions and come up with answers?  I finally shared with her last week that I experience what I call waking dreams.  These are more often referred to as hallucinations and voices.  She was so wrapped up in telling me that this was no pathological and I was not a schitzophrenic that I forgot why I even brought it up.  I just wanted to talk about it and how it helps me in this process of detoxing.  She is so literal in everything, and not spiritual in the least.  I'm feeling like I should look for someone else, but maybe I should just take a break for a while.

 

Arghh.  I'm grateful to have this experience because I know on the other side of it I will be available to help others get through it.  Just now I'm feeling a bit worthless and want to go back to bed.  Instead I am going to challenge myself to shower and get the dogs out for their walk.  Sometimes I wonder if the zaps of pain I feel in my joints are a problem or not.  Am I really going to fall down, or does it just feel like I am?!  Is the tinitus causing the spinning, or is it just vertigo?! 

 

What an adventure.  I'd love to hear from anyone out there.  Feeling isolated and alone. 

[MorningHunter]

This is my first post online relating to my psych med detox.  I've been on antidepressants continuously since 1995, including a number of different cocktails, but finally settling on Effexor XR 300 mg and Klonopin 2mg daily for the past 15 years (with a few additions and deletions of other meds along the way).  I've signed a few forms stating I have the right to refuse a labotomy (HAHAHA - not), and never came out of a psych hospital any better than I went in; once even ending up in a regular hospital on my deathbed from side effects from the meds given me in the psych hospital.  No joke. 

 

After reading some of Robert Whitaker's work and that of Will Hall, I consulted my inner self and determined the psych meds were doing me more harm than good.  I've since poured through writings online regarding the long term usefulness of psych meds and how to detox off.  What I've learned is that everyone must make their own decision of what to do and how to do it.  I honor everyone's choice to decide.  For me, it is time to get off it all.  If I thought I would live through it, I would stop cold turkey.  Today it feels like I am taking poison.  But as I looked in my pill box this morning, I was impressed to see a little itty bitty 75mg dosage of Effexor (Venlafaxine) in there, rather than the two mongo 150 mg pills that were there last November.  I'm making progress.

 

I try not to look back.  I'm a textbook case of deterioration over the years.  I'm currently on SSDI and live with my husband, two dogs and a kitty.  My home is a refuge of kindness (thank goodness), but also my prison.  I am afraid to go out by myself.  I do take the dogs for a 2 mile walk daily.  Unfortunately this morning I realized it has been so long since I took a shower that I can't even take the dogs out until I take care of that.  Figuring out the steps to get myself cleaned up seem so daunting that I haven't started.  But here I am typing coherently into this computer wondering what is the problem with me!!  Yesterday I spend the day in bed with a few hours upright on the couch watching mindless TV.  I read a lot to escape (historical fiction is my favorite - not to be confused with romantic historical fiction .

 

When I see my psychologist (every 2 weeks), she asks me so many questions that I end up staring at her as if she is an alien, or maybe the alien is me.  Shouldn't I be able to comprehend those questions and come up with answers?  I finally shared with her last week that I experience what I call waking dreams.  These are more often referred to as hallucinations and voices.  She was so wrapped up in telling me that this was no pathological and I was not a schitzophrenic that I forgot why I even brought it up.  I just wanted to talk about it and how it helps me in this process of detoxing.  She is so literal in everything, and not spiritual in the least.  I'm feeling like I should look for someone else, but maybe I should just take a break for a while.

 

Arghh.  I'm grateful to have this experience because I know on the other side of it I will be available to help others get through it.  Just now I'm feeling a bit worthless and want to go back to bed.  Instead I am going to challenge myself to shower and get the dogs out for their walk.  Sometimes I wonder if the zaps of pain I feel in my joints are a problem or not.  Am I really going to fall down, or does it just feel like I am?!  Is the tinitus causing the spinning, or is it just vertigo?! 

 

What an adventure.  I'd love to hear from anyone out there.  Feeling isolated and alone. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

MH,

 

How did you decrease your med from that large dose you were taking? It is entirely possible that you are experiencing the first symptoms of withdrawal syndrome because you are decreasing faster than your body can cope. You have stepped down by half in the space of a few months and we recommend (if you want to avoid serious harm) a decrease of no more than 10% of the current dose no more often than every 3-4 weeks and only if you are feeling relatively stable.

 

These topics are very helpful:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

And most of these topics in this post:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

and our suggestions for how to taper off venlafaxine:

 

http://survivinganti...or-venlafaxine/

 

Welcome to the forum and you'll find a lot of helpful support here!

[Fresh]

Welcome to SA   MorningHunter.     This is a wonderful site for  all things antidepressant- related. 

 

Am I reading your post correctly:   In November 2014 you were taking 300mg Effexor , and now you've come down to 75mg ?

That's a much faster taper than this site recommends as safe , and it does sound you're experiencing the fallout.

 

Read the section on "Tapering" in the Symptoms and Self-Care section.

 

Go and take that shower even though it's difficult.   You're going to be okay , you've found a supportive place to help you get through this.

 

Great to have you here.

 

Best wishes ,   Fresh

[MorningHunter]

Thanks for your responses Fresh and Cym. 

 

I did come off quickly from 300 mg.  Partly because I've been back and forth between 300 and 225 mg over the years, and never had a problem with the adjustments.  I've never been sensitive to medication before, but I suspect the long term use may have something to do with the symptoms today.  I did not follow very many suggestions when I started, as you can see from the following reduction schedule I've documented thus far:

 

November 2, 2014     300 mg Venlafaxine XR     3 mg Klonopin

 

November 3, 2014     225 mg Venlafaxine XR     2.5 mg Klonopin

 

November 10, 2014   225 mg Venlafaxine XR     2 mg Klonopin (my notes indicate I reduced the Klonopin too fast, now I know to leave the Klonopin alone until I'm off the SNRI)

 

January 3, 2015        187.5 mg Venlafaxine XR   2 mg Klonopin

 

January 14, 2015      150 mg Velafaxine XR       2 mg Klonopin

 

January 26, 2015      108.5 mg Velafaxine XR    2 mg Klonopin

 

February 10, 2015    75 mg Velafaxine XR         2 mg Klonopin.

 

I read some of the tapering posts, and am curious what the logic behind returning to the original dose is, if one is experiencing severe detox symptoms.  I am experiencing severe symptoms, but cannot imagine going all the way back up to 300 mg.  Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

 

I spoke with my pharmacist today to discuss options.  My psychiatrist retired (well, he is now doing educational training for other members of the APA on behalf of the drug companies ), so I am getting prescriptions from my regular physician.  He doesn't know anything about with withdrawl process, but he is game to help in any way he can.  Anyway, the pharmacist recommended compounding prescriptions and gave me the name of someone local.  This compounding pharmacy is actually one I researched in advance, so was glad to hear about it from the pharmacist.  I can get Venlafaxine as low as 1 mg in an extended release capsule.  I've put together a detox spreadsheet to review with my doctor to get me on a 10% decrease schedule.  I've attached it in case anyone is curious. 

 

Other than scheduling an appointment to discuss the detox schedule with my doc, I'm planning on hanging tight at the current dosage until I "stabilize".  I had one good day before I dropped my dosage last time.  I'm looking for a week of good days this next time.  That and a lower drop I think will help a lot.

 

By the way, I took that shower yesterday and got the dogs out for a short walk.  Today I'm better, but still severe headache with zips and zaps in my joints.  I'm off for a nap.  Thanks 

 

 

 

Effexor.xlsx

[Fresh]

Welcome back  MH.

 

I think you may have read something incorrectly.    I"m pretty sure the moderators would not recommend going back up to 300 after this much time.   You may find a tiny increase will alleviate some of the w/d symptoms.

 

I'll leave it to the mods to make suggestions here.  

 

Keep walking those doggies. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, MorningHunter.

 

Well, it's good that your doctor is willing to help you!

 

Since you've been reducing two drugs rather quickly and now experiencing withdrawal symptoms, if I were you, I'd stop tapering for a while, maybe a few months or even more, and let your nervous system settle down.

 

Do what you can to enjoy slowly feeling better. It might take a while. Don't stress your nervous system more at this point.

 

Are you taking care of your health? We recommend fresh veggies and fruits, and minimal sugar, caffeine, and artificial additives. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[MorningHunter]

I appreciate the input

 

Over the past few years my husband and I have worked toward a healthier diet, increasing fresh fruits and vegetables, and decreasing sugar, caffeine and processed foods.  We are not perfect in these goals, but our cupboards look much different than they used to.  I recently made a pot of bean and vegetable soup which is yummy.  I was able to freeze a couple containers for easy meals. 

 

I do take 1000 mg of fish oil made by Nordic Naturals.  I've been doing this since November 2014.  Although I hear magnesium is good while going through this detox, I have not yet researched what exactly I might need and where to get a good product.  I am very cautious about purchasing supplements and research companies thoroughly.

 

Today I have no intention of reducing the venlafaxine in the foreseeable future.  I agree a holiday from reduction is called for so my body can catch up, regulate and stabilize. 

 

 

 

 

[Fresh]

You've probably found it by now , but there's a thread about Magnesium that will be helpful.

 

Your first post mentions that you'd like to feel stable for a week before cutting again.    I do hope you'll reconsider this.   I agree with Alto that it will be important to give yourself at least a month or two.  

People who've been taking ad's for many years seem to find it harder to taper them , so please go s-l-o-w-l-y.

 

Fresh

[MorningHunter]

Fresh, thank you so much for sticking with me here.  I agree, a week of stability is not enough.  As each day goes by I improve a little bit.  This is wonderful, but also is showing me how sick I made myself by the fast tapering.  I agree that 1-3 months of stability will be best for my system before I reduce again.  I see from you history that even modulated reductions can result in a very difficult result, so I'm beginning to take this whole withdrawal syndrome a lot more seriously.  I'm now coming to terms with the idea it may be a couple of years or more before I get completely off the effexor.  This is not something I can push through.  It is more like a delicate dance of self care, love and patience. 

 

I will seek out the magnesium thread. 

 

Sending you a hug!

[Rhiannon]

MH, I'm so glad to hear you're slowing down and thinking about how to taper in the future. Like you, I started on these drugs a long time ago, even longer than you actually, and I think of myself as one of those Anatomy of an Epidemic type cases, the people who just worsen and deteriorate slowly (or sometimes more quickly) once started on psychiatric drugs. On and off a cocktail of them over the decades, and miserable, suicidal, and struggling most of that time.

 

The great thing about tapering slowly is that you will feel sooo much better long before you are all the way off the meds. Reducing the dose can make a huge difference. And you can do it in a way that allows you to enjoy your life while you're tapering, too.

 

"This is not something I can push through.  It is more like a delicate dance of self care, love and patience. " Beautifully said.

 

Welcome to the forum. I hope to see you here on your journey, and one day to celebrate recovery with you, too.

[indigo]

Welcome MorningHunter. Glad you found SA. Thanks for sharing a bit about your life and withdrawal struggle. 

It is so like my own: I've gone the T.V. distraction root too. Can be a quagmire.

I found having a few simple routines to do every day gave my day a bit of structure, and

 helped keep me grounded through the roller coaster of emotional ups and downs.

Mine are, brush my teeth, do some yoga type stretching, take my dog for a long walk, and write a few pages.

I even write down the list every day and cross each one off when done. Might sound silly but it works for me.

[MorningHunter]

My morning routine is very important to me too...and I am always making lists.  I always feel accomplished when I cross something off.

 

My morning routine is coffee, feed the dogs, walk the dogs, shower, communicate with others via the internet.  Once that routine is done I often find half the day over.  I then allow myself to rest with a good book if needed, or do small housekeeping activities. 

 

I don't shop or go out much unless I can have the dogs or my husband with me.  I live in what I describe an urban sprawl.  I am easily overwhelmed by the intensity of the population, concrete and noise.  We moved to this location 4 years ago for a job for my husband.  He was laid off soon after we moved to the area.  However, it is good because it provides him access to a state university.  He has two semesters left to get his BS.  I'm very proud of his hard work.  Not easy when you are 50.  Once he finishes school he suggests we return to a rural home and he will commute to work. 

 

I'm very interested in learning about Intentional Peer Support out of New Hampshire, USA.  Through their Facebook page I've learned they are opening up a new weekly group meeting via the internet on Sundays to discuss who we are, what IPS is, how me might incorprate it into our relationships and the experiences we have doing just that.  I am hoping to get a scholarship to take their 5 day core training someday.  Perhaps I can be part of the solution. 

[indigo]

 I feel for you living in urban sprawl.I empathise with the noise, concrete  and people being overwhelming. 

 If there are any wildish park areas near you, it might be worth the drive.

 I've found walking with my dog in nature every day is a life saver. 

 In fact I never go anywhere without my dog. She has changed my life. I had my doctor write a  prescriptive letter that she was essential to my mental health, 

then I trained her for the public access test. It took me a year .She has been my legal service dog for eight years now. We are inseparable.

I'm glad to hear that besides dogs, you have a supportive partner. That is a treasure when going through this passage. 

[MorningHunter]

indigo, you really have me thinking.  I used to have a service dog for agoraphobia and anxiety.  I lost her at an early age after two years of public access.  Her replacement was a wash who I had to rehome in the country with a good friend.  After losing two dogs in one year, I didn't have the emotional fortitude to train another for public access work.  My husband and I later adopted a neglected pomeranian, then about 8 months ago we adopted a second dog, a yellow labrador.  I actually have a working relationship with a local gentleman who trains service dogs, and since I have been through the process already I know what to expect. I'd want to have the trainer check her out, but my lab may be a solid contendor for a real job.

 

Sometimes the most obvious tools sit in front of me and I don't see them.  Thanks for sharing your experience so I can see more possibilities! 

[indigo]

Wonderfull news!

[Altostrata]

Please post a photo of your dog companions. Seeing friendly pets cheers all of us up!

[indigo]

O.k. I feel ready to that now .How do I do it? I can't find the place to post the photo.

[Altostrata]

Click on More Reply Options, click on Browse under Attach Files at the bottom, upload file, click on Attach this File, click on Add to Post.

[indigo]

Thanks Alto. I figured it out. She's up there now.

[MorningHunter]

Okay, I'm back.

 

I've uploaded a pic of Lucy-Lu the Sunshine Girl hosting Kimber Doodles the Whole Kit and Kaboodle on her back. Ms. Doodles is also known as Ms. Barks a Lot.

 

I have a friend who is detoxing off her meds too. When I found her she had not slept for 4 days and had lost track of her medication schedule. I did ultimately get her to the hospital where she was evaluated, given meds as currently prescribed, and released to the care of her friend with the power of attorney. We got her to bed and she finally began to sleep. I feel honored to walk this sacred path with others. I received a call from her today and she was much more lucid. We were able to talk about her experience and mine. All good stuff. I wonder if I am finally finding my calling in life.

[Altostrata]

Thank you for the photo of your furry family.

 

Yes, perhaps you have a special patience with people in that kind of crisis.

[LoveandLight]

lovely morning hunter..so nice your friend was looked after so well..

[btdt]

Okay, I'm back.

 

I've uploaded a pic of Lucy-Lu the Sunshine Girl hosting Kimber Doodles the Whole Kit and Kaboodle on her back. Ms. Doodles is also known as Ms. Barks a Lot.

 

I have a friend who is detoxing off her meds too. When I found her she had not slept for 4 days and had lost track of her medication schedule. I did ultimately get her to the hospital where she was evaluated, given meds as currently prescribed, and released to the care of her friend with the power of attorney. We got her to bed and she finally began to sleep. I feel honored to walk this sacred path with others. I received a call from her today and she was much more lucid. We were able to talk about her experience and mine. All good stuff. I wonder if I am finally finding my calling in life.

Welcome Morning Hunter I just read your thread.  I am happy you found SA and love the dogs  

peace 

[MorningHunter]

It's been quite a while since I last visited this forum.  I've made steady progress in my detox off the generic effexor xr and clonopin.  I'm becomming impatient and want to drop the effexor completely (I'm down to 26 mg), but I know I have to trust the life experience of others and keep working my way down slowly.  In fact, I think I may stop where I am and stay steady through the holidays. 

 

My husband finishes his BS in Business Administration in December.  He's looking for a job.  We will likely need to relocate to accomodate his employment.  He is applying for jobs throughout the country.  I am behind him 100%.  It is both exciting and stressful not to know where we will be living after he graduates.  That's assuming he finds a job!

 

So, I guess I've had my best thoughts here...stay steady and let things iron out, then do another drop.  I've made such good progress I don't want to mess up now. 

 

Sending best wishes to all who read this. 

[MollyN]

Hi MH, you're doing so well with your detox (I love that you call it detox!) Exciting time ahead with your move and new job, I wish you all the very best xxx

[KarenB]

Hello MorningHunter,

 

So encouraging to read of someone doing so well in w/d, especially from the nasty Effexor (I'm on it too).

 

Also just read your first post on here and loved your words 'I consulted my inner self.'  That's the most downright sensible thing I've read in a while.

 

KarenB

[MorningHunter]

Thank you Molly and Karen for your supportive thoughts. 

 

I feel like my progress is successful, but it has challenges.  The biggest hurdle I tend to hit relates to self-worth.  I have cleared my life of all outside input to create a safe place to experience the detox.  I need that safe place due to my inconsistent mood (highs and lows) as well as unaccountable flashes of anger.  Usually I can direct the anger toward the universe in general, but sometimes it comes out toward my husband, which is so difficult to watch from the outside as it happens, then to experience the feelings of regret.  The last thing I want to do is to hurt others. This means remaining very isolated...no work, one venture to the grocery store per week and walking the dogs in the neighborhood.  I'm easily over stimulated, so I stay at home.  I haven't maintained close friendships for years, due to my inability to be constant and kind in relationships.  (My husband is a gift from the universe.)  I stay in touch with family via the phone - oh, and they live 2,000 miles away.

 

Those are the challenges, but there are rewards too which deserve to be mentioned.  I am learning to discern between symptoms caused by my circumstances versus those caused by the detox.  I've learned to look inward throughout the day and ask "Is it me"?  I find, if I am quiet, I hear my higher self tell me the answer.  I also try to remember I am a spiritual being having a human experience.  I believe my soul is on a training ground, and will benefit from the lessons learned here on the physical plane.  There is hope as my mind clears on some days with cognitive improvement.  I also take hope from those who have walked this path before me.  I am clear the journey never ends.  There is no "finish" to the struggle of being human, but I'm convinced it can get better.

 

Sending love into the universe...take a piece into your heart if you would like it. 

[Rachelina]

Hello MH!! I think I know you. We met on the Charles Eisenstein course. It's great to get an update from you. Congratulations on coming this far in your taper! I know that when you get this close to the end it's tempting to speed it up and be done with it, but as I'm sure you know, that's not a good idea. I'm in the middle of a huge crash due to my drops getting too big towards the end. The drops were the same, but the percentage increased greatly and it really is the percentage that matters. So, slow and steady!! You can do this. 

 

I'm curious about International Peer Support, since they are here in NH. I'll look into them. Did you ever get involved?

 

I relate so much to your feelings of isolation. I haven't been anywhere in weeks due to this crash, plus I have pretty bad agoraphobia to start with. I'm so much looking forward to getting out and engaging with the world again, but now is a time for turning inward and focusing on healing. Like a caterpillar transforming inside its cocoon, not quite ready to emerge as a butterfly. But the time will come.

 

I'm gratefully accepting the love that you sent out into the universe, and sending more out towards you and everyone in this world who needs some healing. 

[MollyN]

It's really a relief to read about other's isolation! thank you xx It's something that I've only experienced since my drop from 10 to 5 - I hid in the shower the other day to escape a well meaning friend (then snuck upstairs - with no towel and waited there drip drying ... she still didn't leave!) it's not normal!!

 

Up til last week we were living with 3 homestays - it was terrible, by the end I was hiding in my room every day. I love what you've written about creating a safe place to detox. That really resonates with me. I'm also trying to limit my life down to the things I can just about cope with. No work, no homestays. Of course now we have very little money and may need to sell the house <sigh>

[MorningHunter]

Hello MH!! I think I know you. We met on the Charles Eisenstein course...

I'm curious about International Peer Support, since they are here in NH. I'll look into them. Did you ever get involved?

I relate so much to your feelings of isolation...

 

Thank you for recognizing me Rachel!  It's good to hear from you.  I never got involved iwth International Peer Support.  Most of their training is done "in house" and not open to the public.  They did have a course in Baltimore, but I wasn't up for the travel.  I still like their program and am hoping to work with them in the future.  They are training more trainers, so I'm hoping this will make the course more accessible. 

Boy, the isolation is a big one for me.  I quit my job in December 2014 due to anger flare ups at work that I had difficulty managing.  Since then I've really shut down socially.  This is the main reason I am tempted to rush the detox, I want to reach out socially again, but I also know that rushing it now may make it worse later.  I did exactly the same thing as you.  I went from 300 mg to 75, then started dropping 7mg per month.  That worked well until this month when I hit a wall of symptoms.  Time to make an adjustment...probably 2 mg drop per month.  I know 10% per month is recommended, but I'm always one to push it to the edge.  I just couldn't fathom taking over 3 years to get off the effexor.  I don't regret my approach, but I do need to make another adjustment.

 

I sure appreciate your metaphore about the butterfly.  Creating a vision of beauty under ugly circumstances is helpful to me!

[MorningHunter]

Hey Molly...

Hang in there!  I've also found the detox to come with financial challenges.  A lot of acceptance of circumstances and a willingness to make changes to facilitate future health and well being.  I think the struggles make us stronger, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.