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Epsom salts baths -- another way to relax with magnesium


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#1 GiaK

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

Admin note: Also see Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker  
 
some of you may have seen this before but the reason I repost something like this on the blog is because it's really very helpful to me and could be for others too.

Healing bath: for anyone who hurts or simply needs to relax http://wp.me/p5nnb-7wj

I’ve posted this simple little coping tool a few times because it’s been so valuable to me and others I know.

I take a bath like this almost every day. Sometimes twice a day. There have been times when I’ve been too sick to manage getting in and out of a tub, but if there is anyway I can manage, it very rarely fails to give some modicum of relief. Occasionally I emerge feeling greatly better. On a good day it can be simply invigorating as well! I’ve shared this in various circles and people rarely give it much credence. I encourage you try taking a bath if your first reaction is to dismiss this. It’s simple and subtle but amazing.

● 5 cups Epsom Salts
● 1 cup Baking Soda
● a few drops of lavendar oil or other favorite calming essential oil (optional–some people find themselves sensitive to inhaling these oils, listen to your body — I in fact, have not been using the oils lately)
________________
Poor all into a large tub and fill with water as warm as you can tolerate comfortably. Sometimes that may mean tepid water! Especially in the summer. We can be sensitive to both heat and cold.

Soak 10 to 20 minutes.

Emerge refreshed.

Epsom salt baths are widely talked about in withdrawal groups and circles as well as alternative medicine sites. The thing is no one ever really says how much to use. This is a whole lot of Epsom salts and it really can help soothe. It’s by no means a cure all but it can help ease unpleasant symptoms of withdrawal. It can also relax anyone who needs to relax. No extenuating circumstances necessary.

If you look around you might find sources of bulk salts and the baking soda both. It can be quite inexpensive.

It’s a completely relaxing and refreshing soak. It helps with body pains as well as tension of all sorts.

Epsom salts is a source of magnesium that is taken through the skin. Oral magnesium is often suggested in alternative circles for relaxation as well but some people have trouble with it bothering their guts. This is often a more effective means of getting magnesium.

It can ease muscle and other bodily soreness and pain as well as anxiety or tension of most kinds.

This is also good before bed to relax before sleep

Be well everyone.

For more coping and healing ideas see here: Tool box for coping with psychiatric drug withdrawal syndromes (and some chronic pain and/or illness too)

original post here: http://wp.me/p5nnb-7wj


Edited by Altostrata, 22 February 2015 - 10:56 AM.
added admin note, merged related topics

Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#2 Altostrata

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:52 PM

I want one of those baths right now!!
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#3 Nadia

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:03 PM

This really helped me when I was going through the worst of my withdrawal.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.


#4 caro123

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:45 PM

I found it really helpful :rolleyes: !! Caro
1995 Post Natal Dep - Zoloft ?dose (as well as 5mg valium and sleeping tablet) Quit after a couple of months.
1998 PND - Effexor-xr 150mg. Tried reducing but failed due to heightened anxiety. Quit cold turkey when pregnant with 3rd child.
2003 PND again on Effexor-xr 150mg. Numerous times tried to wean.
2006 75mg.
2010 Weaned off too fast as per dr recom 75mg every 2nd day etc. was Effexor-xr free for 3 months. Reinstated 75mg
1/6/12 = 72 mg
2/7/12 = 69 mg
16/7/12 = 67.5 mg
1/8/12 = 60 mg
19/8;12 = 52.5 mg
4/9/12 = 45mg
2/10/12 = 37.5 mg

#5 Phil

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:05 AM

Just a story I thought I'd share... My grandad has dementia, and recently ended up stuck in his bedroom because of having trouble walking downstairs. I gave my uncle (who cares for him) some epsom salts to give him. The next day, my grandad was quite energetic and managed to get downstairs for the first time in ages. We're not sure if it was the salts that helped, but it's nice to think they did :)
Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

#6 aza

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

Hi every one, when I was experiencing gabapentin withdrawal I took epsom salts baths and swished a mild soulution of epsom salts around in my mouth and then spit it out and I did this after meals and at bed time and 90% of my withdrawal from gabapentin went away within 48 hours. I had been taking 2400 mg. at bed time for more than 10 years. Untill I read about magnesium supplements on line nothing I tried would lesson my withdrawal except to increase my gabapentin. Of course I have spent hours reading the various discussions on this forum and I now understand what I did wrong. My taper should have been much slower and I might have avoided a gabapentin withdrawal all together. Something good came out of all of this, I now know the power of magnesium. See ya.

#7 GiaK

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:46 AM

aza...it's great you got such great relief from magnesium... I want to make a comment so that people can be aware -- not everyone responds to it...and on occasion people even have a paradox and adverse reaction to it... just FYI, because our own experience doesn't always help everyone... magnesium has helped me a lot, but it certainly didn't help as much as it did for you...

Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#8 aza

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:10 AM

An easy way to neutralize the chlorine in your bath Water is to add a teaspoon of ascorbic acid.  http://www.fs.fed.us...1/05231301.html

 

Ascorbic Acid

 

One gram of ascorbic acid will neutralize 1 milligram per liter of chlorine per 100 gallons of water. The reaction is very fast. The chemical reaction (Tikkanen and others 2001) of ascorbic acid with chlorine is shown below:

 

 

C5H5O5CH2OH + HOCL → C5H3O5CH2OH + HCl + H2O

Ascorbic acid + Hypochlorous acid → Dehydroascorbic acid + Hydrochloric acid + water

Approximately 2.5 parts of ascorbic acid are required for neutralizing 1 part chlorine. Since ascorbic acid is weakly acidic, the pH of the treated water may decrease slightly in low alkaline waters.

 



#9 findingme

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:56 AM

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to share that I tried a natural remedy for sleeplessness that really works :

good old fashioned Epsom Salts !

Lately I've had trouble falling asleep much before midnight

AND been waking every morning around 4: or 4:30 ...NOT enough sleep for me ....

I hate taking sleep meds cause they make me groggy the next day ...

so I bought some Epsom Salts ( Morton's has a Eucalyptus one) and baking soda ..

Poured 2 cups Epsom salts and 1 cup baking soda under VERY Warm (Almost hot) running water...

filled the tub and soaked for about 20 minutes ... SO relaxing ... went to bed at about 9pm ... read a book for a bit and then fell into a WONDERFUL sleep ... didn't wake til 6:30 and fell back to sleep til almost 7:30...

if I didn't have to go out that morning I probably could have slept another few hours !!!

So as a "control experiment" , I skipped the bath last night ... and, you guessed it ... woke up at 4 this morning that was it ....of course you all know I'll be back in the eucalyptus bath tonight !

At this point, I am well into my Wellbutrin taper ... which I started a few months ago ( after taking 150mgXL for many years ... .am down to 56.25 IM (37.5 am and 18.5 before 5pm) ... so far so good ... keep me in your thoughts as I keep all of you in mine ...

Blessings,

FM

 

 


Since approximately 1992

have been on and off Paxil , Prozac(had a horrible reaction), Lorazepam , Celexa, Lexapro, Risperdal ( which was supposed to "kick start" the Lexapro) , and Wellbutrin...

By 2013, I was only on Wellbutrin and generic Lexapro ( 20mg)

I weaned successfully off the Wellbutrin, but by the time I was down to 10mg Lexapro, I suffered panic attacks on bridges, and creeping depression ,

July 2014, reinstated 20 mg generic Lexapro


#10 Altostrata

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:56 PM

Good to hear you're doing well. Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate. Please see our topic on magnesium in the Symptoms and Self-care forum.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#11 JanCarol

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 03:36 AM

I keep both Magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salts) and Magnesium Chloride (Dead Sea salt) for the bath.  If I just want a gentle bath, I take the Epsom.  If I just had a workout, or am in pain or sore or overtired, I use the Mag chloride flakes.  1 cup per path, 20 min soak.

 

Important that the bath is not too hot, or it alters your absorption of it.

 

This may be woo, but I also like it:  1 teaspon of borax will neutralize fluoride (which is in many psych drugs, and in most water in the US and Australia).  Fluoride will hamper the uptake of magnesium.  I think I read this on Mercola.  When I do this, it smells like a fancy hot springs spa.

 

I wonder about the ascorbic acid - my massage therapist told me to add a splash of apple cider vinegar (ACV) to the bath as well.  I wonder if this also helps neutralize the chlorine?

 

Other additives:  If I have skin irritations or hemorrhoids, (frequently do) I add either 1 cup table salt (dirt cheap) or 1/2 cup himalayan salt (less so) to the bath.  I may also add essential oil, like GiaK said, with lavender.  Vanilla or eucalyptus, or rosemary, are 3 of my favorites.  I also have a Zen Oil which is for muscle soreness that I might add if I've been active.

 

I live for these baths.  I also like the ritual of drawing the bath, like preparing myself for a "magnesium moment" treat.  And only need to soak 20 minutes for maximum benefit.  I think I feel one coming on now!


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#12 mammaP

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 08:05 AM

Jan you have perfectly described how I feel about my magnesium baths! I put lavender oil in mine too and just love them so much. I haven't been able to have a bath for 3 weeks and am supposed to wait for 3 months post surgery before trying to get in and out of a bath but I can't wait that long, I am literally CRAVING a long warm soothing bath.  Hopefully I will be going home soon and will be able to figure a way of getting in and out safely. I have a kind of hydraulic seat thing and hopefully will do the job. Can't wait! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#13 mammaP

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 02:16 AM

I have discovered how to improve the already fantastic magnesium bath! I use 2 cups Epsom salts, and 2 cups of dead sea salt. I have no idea what is in the dead sea salt that makes it different but it does. Both are brilliant on their own but together they are amazing, a few drops of lavender oil and a lavender candle burning with the lights off and you are in heaven!

Amounts are approximate, I just whack it in but is no less than 2 cups of each. My measuring cup went AWOL.

Edited by mammaP, 14 June 2015 - 02:19 AM.
Added note

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#14 GiaK

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 03:46 AM

ah...I often use sea salt...and it's a nice addition too...variety I find is good...in diet and in your bath as well  :P


Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#15 Meimeiquest

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:49 AM

So awhile back my sister sent me a bag of Dead Sea sea salts. When I was in it, my hands and feet turned purplish, and when I took them out the color would quickly go back to pinkish, back and forth. Like those doll bottles where the milk color appears and disappears. Anyone else seen anything like that? Regular Epsom salts does not do that to me.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#16 a99

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 06:26 AM

How many gramms is a cup ? and how long should be the bath ? 


On and off prozac from 2010 -2014 .

Several failed fast tapers and reinstatements .

Cold turkey : March  2014 .

 


#17 Meimeiquest

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 01:18 PM

In the US, a cup measure is about the same as a 240-250 ml measure. Bath time is 20 minutes, then whatever you want to add.
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#18 GiaK

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 05:42 AM

I now use much less than that. I have plenty of mag in my body now and if I use that much it makes me woozy. So adjust the amount to what makes sense. I only use less than a cup now.  (at one time I used up to 5 cups) 


Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#19 downtongirl

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:08 AM

I was wondering if hot Epsom salt baths could rid my body of the last remaining bits of prozac?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 


#20 oskcajga

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:13 PM

That's not how it works.


8 Words of Wisdom about Adverse Effects and Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal Syndrome:

 

1.  Please do learn about this condition by thoroughly reading 1) Dr. Healy's website and SurvivingAntidepressants.

2.  Please read books like: 1) Anatomy of An Epidemic and 2) Mad in America.

3.  Success Stories do exist.

4.  Please be extremely cautious about reinstatements, recreational drugs, supplements.  Even low doses can complicate matters.

5.  Transfer all financial assets into your own name (hint: relationships end).  Do not spend money wastefully.  Keep your job as long as possible.

6.  Psychiatric drug "withdrawal" and adverse effects are serious neurological reactions to powerful "drugs" - do not take this condition lightly.

7.  These conditions almost never recognized by any medical doctors - hospitalization/appointments can be futile/potentially injurious.

8.  PSSD, anhedonia (no emotions), memory loss, brain zaps, etc are scary - don't worsen them by taking more drugs, supplements, and medications.

 

Stimulant free since September 20th, 2014; SSRI free since September 1st, 2013


#21 downtongirl

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:17 PM

What effects do Epsom salts baths have on detoxification?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 


#22 Altostrata

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:34 PM

Please see above.

 

Epsom salts baths are relaxing, plus you absorb some magnesium. Magnesium is good for you.

 

It doesn't "detox"; detoxing is not the point. To let your nervous system accommodate to drug changes, you want the drug to leave slowly. You don't want to speed the Prozac from your body, which is the concept of "detox."


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#23 downtongirl

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:57 PM

I wasn't trying to speed it up I was taking the baths for help with relaxation and sore muscles and sleep but I am wondering if it is drawing out any trace residual amount of prozac because I noticed a spike in my anxiety about 2 hours after a Epsom salt bath last night

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 


#24 oskcajga

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 01:01 PM

I wasn't trying to speed it up I was taking the baths for help with relaxation and sore muscles and sleep but I am wondering if it is drawing out any trace residual amount of prozac because I noticed a spike in my anxiety about 2 hours after a Epsom salt bath last night

 

Prozac remains in the bloodstream for around 3 months after your last dose, and I've read that it may remain within the brain for much longer than that.  I'm not sure if anyone fully understands how these drugs are cleared from the body - but I am confident that absorbing magnesium sulfate through the skin is not going to impact this process very much, if at all.

 

The whole theory of detoxing drugs out of the system is a bit of pop-culture pesudoscience - it's mostly independent of any "treatments" or "detox regimes" that people go through.  If it's a fat soluble drug, detox may be accelerated through exercise, healthy diets, etc etc, to some extent - but it's mostly related to renal/hepatic clearance and metabolism of the drugs, and the reversal of neuroadaptations that occur in the brain.  MOST of the detox is related to neuroadapations, and this occurs slowly over time without much external "detox treatments".  Reversal of neuroadaptations can be aided by a healthy diet, exercise, low stress, some supplements, and good sleep. 

 

Here's a quote from one of the moderators of this website on the subject that explains it much better than I can:

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected.


8 Words of Wisdom about Adverse Effects and Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal Syndrome:

 

1.  Please do learn about this condition by thoroughly reading 1) Dr. Healy's website and SurvivingAntidepressants.

2.  Please read books like: 1) Anatomy of An Epidemic and 2) Mad in America.

3.  Success Stories do exist.

4.  Please be extremely cautious about reinstatements, recreational drugs, supplements.  Even low doses can complicate matters.

5.  Transfer all financial assets into your own name (hint: relationships end).  Do not spend money wastefully.  Keep your job as long as possible.

6.  Psychiatric drug "withdrawal" and adverse effects are serious neurological reactions to powerful "drugs" - do not take this condition lightly.

7.  These conditions almost never recognized by any medical doctors - hospitalization/appointments can be futile/potentially injurious.

8.  PSSD, anhedonia (no emotions), memory loss, brain zaps, etc are scary - don't worsen them by taking more drugs, supplements, and medications.

 

Stimulant free since September 20th, 2014; SSRI free since September 1st, 2013


#25 NoMeaning25

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 04:56 AM

Why add baking soda? Can i do it without or wont it have the same effect? Baking soda can be quite detoxifying

#26 oskcajga

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 06:37 AM

Why add baking soda? Can i do it without or wont it have the same effect? Baking soda can be quite detoxifying

 

Baking soda makes no difference - I honestly have no idea why that's even there.  Maybe for making the water cloudy?

 

I've done it with and without baking soda and the effects were identical.


8 Words of Wisdom about Adverse Effects and Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal Syndrome:

 

1.  Please do learn about this condition by thoroughly reading 1) Dr. Healy's website and SurvivingAntidepressants.

2.  Please read books like: 1) Anatomy of An Epidemic and 2) Mad in America.

3.  Success Stories do exist.

4.  Please be extremely cautious about reinstatements, recreational drugs, supplements.  Even low doses can complicate matters.

5.  Transfer all financial assets into your own name (hint: relationships end).  Do not spend money wastefully.  Keep your job as long as possible.

6.  Psychiatric drug "withdrawal" and adverse effects are serious neurological reactions to powerful "drugs" - do not take this condition lightly.

7.  These conditions almost never recognized by any medical doctors - hospitalization/appointments can be futile/potentially injurious.

8.  PSSD, anhedonia (no emotions), memory loss, brain zaps, etc are scary - don't worsen them by taking more drugs, supplements, and medications.

 

Stimulant free since September 20th, 2014; SSRI free since September 1st, 2013


#27 Mort81

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:58 AM

I have responded very well to a foot soak with Epson Salts. For the first time yesterday I tried a bath. It was too hot but I stayed in anyway thinking its not that hot and it will cool down. Well anyway I had the worst Askathisia Ive ever experienced about an hour later . I think its more the temperature of the water rather than the salts. I was starting to get uncomfortable and should have just drained the water and re-filled with colder. Anyway minor set back I guess but I have been shaken up a bit from the bad reaction.


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th Clonazapam. Currently 0.10mg daily. PPI Dexlant 20-30mg for last 29 months currently at 30mg

#28 NoMeaning25

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:29 AM

I coincidentally had the exact same reaction as you regarding the hot bath. I had a panic attack and couldnt sleep. Afterwards i paced for hours.

#29 NoMeaning25

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:31 AM

Its the hot water. I also thought it would cool down but 10 minutes into it i felt like my blood pressure dropped and was panic stricken. I couldnt sleep that night i had mutliple panic attacks and paced all night - never had pacing. It was terrible

#30 compsports

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 02:14 AM

As an FYI, when I took a bath with Epsom Salts, it resulted in feeling hyper and caused insomnia.   Same reactions I have had when taking even minuscule amounts of magnesium.  Never had a problem with taking regular baths.

 

Obviously, you know yourselves the best but don't be so sure that the salts might not have been a contributing factor.


Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2012 and on pap machine

Dealing with protracted sleep issues


#31 Mort81

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 02:24 AM

 thanks for the responses. Ya it was awful , I think I am okay with the salts because the foot soak causes no reaction.  It was hot in the bathroom as I attempted to open the dorr and windows. I think this means a sauna would be a bad idea aswell


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th Clonazapam. Currently 0.10mg daily. PPI Dexlant 20-30mg for last 29 months currently at 30mg

#32 Sheri755

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 01:17 PM

I get no anxiety relief from Epsom salts magnesium sulfate baths BUT huge relief from 2 cups magnesium chloride flakes with 1/2 cup baking soda for 30 minutes.

I used the chloride version yesterday and felt so much calmer. I couldn't believe it! Earlier today, I used the sulfate version with no improvement at all so I waited an hour and am back in the tub soaking. I will report back. The water should be warm, not hot. I like to think of warm ocean water. 😊
Effexor XR 300 (brand) mg & various SSRIs 15 yrs (Effexor XR 300 mg past 10 yrs
Clonazepam, 1.0 mg. am, .5 mg pm. - 15 yrs, 7-17-16- Began .5 three times a day
Vyvanse 60 mg, - 2 yrs, Cut to 50 mg for 6 mths, Cut to 30 mg. on 4-1-16. Tapering.
Approx. 4-1-15 began Effexor XR 300 taper, very slowly for a year. Held at 37.5 for about 3 mths. Cut to 18 mg for 2 wks to 0. WD began 2 wks later. Depression, anxiety, paranoia, low appetite, nausea.
7-14-16-Reinstated 5 beads Effx after 4 mths misery.Pooped out 10 days.
9-12-16-to present- Wide eyed terror, bedridden fear, no appetite/feeling of being full.
10-30-16- Began 15% liquid tapering of 30 mg Vyvanse. (25 mg)
11-13-16- Liquid Vyvanse 22 mg,11-27-16- Liquid 15 mg, 12-12-16- Vyvanse 12.5 for 5 days. 12-16 - 12-29, 15 mg.
11-20-16- Switched back to 1.0 clonazepam am & .5 bedtime
12-30-16- Moved to 15 mg COMPOUNDED Vyvanse.Current 4/11-4/25 7.5 mg.(10% ev 2 wks)
Current meds:Effexor XR- 5 Beads, Clonazepam-1.0 mg am, .5 mg bedtime,Vyvanse-(tapering) Estradiol- 2
mg,Progesterone 200 mg,Testosterone 30 mg/ml,Nature Throid- 48.75 mg.(12-21-16-65 mg.) (4-18-17-81.25 mg) Current supplements: Fish Oil-1360 mg, Curamin- 2706 mg.

#33 Sheri755

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 01:25 PM

I keep both Magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salts) and Magnesium Chloride (Dead Sea salt) for the bath. If I just want a gentle bath, I take the Epsom. If I just had a workout, or am in pain or sore or overtired, I use the Mag chloride flakes. 1 cup per path, 20 min soak.

Important that the bath is not too hot, or it alters your absorption of it.

This may be woo, but I also like it: 1 teaspon of borax will neutralize fluoride (which is in many psych drugs, and in most water in the US and Australia). Fluoride will hamper the uptake of magnesium. I think I read this on Mercola. When I do this, it smells like a fancy hot springs spa.

I wonder about the ascorbic acid - my massage therapist told me to add a splash of apple cider vinegar (ACV) to the bath as well. I wonder if this also helps neutralize the chlorine?

Other additives: If I have skin irritations or hemorrhoids, (frequently do) I add either 1 cup table salt (dirt cheap) or 1/2 cup himalayan salt (less so) to the bath. I may also add essential oil, like GiaK said, with lavender. Vanilla or eucalyptus, or rosemary, are 3 of my favorites. I also have a Zen Oil which is for muscle soreness that I might add if I've been active.

I live for these baths. I also like the ritual of drawing the bath, like preparing myself for a "magnesium moment" treat. And only need to soak 20 minutes for maximum benefit. I think I feel one coming on now!


Jan, do you think the borax would be too detoxifying? I know one teaspoon is a tiny amount but I'm soo sensitive. Which would be better? Borax or absorbic acid?
Effexor XR 300 (brand) mg & various SSRIs 15 yrs (Effexor XR 300 mg past 10 yrs
Clonazepam, 1.0 mg. am, .5 mg pm. - 15 yrs, 7-17-16- Began .5 three times a day
Vyvanse 60 mg, - 2 yrs, Cut to 50 mg for 6 mths, Cut to 30 mg. on 4-1-16. Tapering.
Approx. 4-1-15 began Effexor XR 300 taper, very slowly for a year. Held at 37.5 for about 3 mths. Cut to 18 mg for 2 wks to 0. WD began 2 wks later. Depression, anxiety, paranoia, low appetite, nausea.
7-14-16-Reinstated 5 beads Effx after 4 mths misery.Pooped out 10 days.
9-12-16-to present- Wide eyed terror, bedridden fear, no appetite/feeling of being full.
10-30-16- Began 15% liquid tapering of 30 mg Vyvanse. (25 mg)
11-13-16- Liquid Vyvanse 22 mg,11-27-16- Liquid 15 mg, 12-12-16- Vyvanse 12.5 for 5 days. 12-16 - 12-29, 15 mg.
11-20-16- Switched back to 1.0 clonazepam am & .5 bedtime
12-30-16- Moved to 15 mg COMPOUNDED Vyvanse.Current 4/11-4/25 7.5 mg.(10% ev 2 wks)
Current meds:Effexor XR- 5 Beads, Clonazepam-1.0 mg am, .5 mg bedtime,Vyvanse-(tapering) Estradiol- 2
mg,Progesterone 200 mg,Testosterone 30 mg/ml,Nature Throid- 48.75 mg.(12-21-16-65 mg.) (4-18-17-81.25 mg) Current supplements: Fish Oil-1360 mg, Curamin- 2706 mg.

#34 JanCarol

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:47 PM

I don't think the vinegar neutralizes the fluoride. 

 

If you've got thyroid problems, you really really want to do that.

 

The advantage to a bath is this:  you react once and it's over and you won't do that again.  Only once have we had a severe, long term reaction to epsom salts - and this was a person who went into a float tank saturated with epsom salts to float the body.  That took a few weeks to clear.

 

But a normal bath, you will know, and it should clear.  I don't think it will be detoxifying at all, because all of the borax will go towards neutralizing the fluoride, if it works like I understand.  The borax binds to the fluoride and both become inert.

 

The borax thing isn't exactly science (you're gonna make me do some research, aren't you?) just a thing I "heard" from a "relatively reliable source."  

 

Now I'm off to verify my sources....


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#35 Sheri755

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:56 PM

I don't think the vinegar neutralizes the fluoride.

If you've got thyroid problems, you really really want to do that.

The advantage to a bath is this: you react once and it's over and you won't do that again. Only once have we had a severe, long term reaction to epsom salts - and this was a person who went into a float tank saturated with epsom salts to float the body. That took a few weeks to clear.

But a normal bath, you will know, and it should clear. I don't think it will be detoxifying at all, because all of the borax will go towards neutralizing the fluoride, if it works like I understand. The borax binds to the fluoride and both become inert.

The borax thing isn't exactly science (you're gonna make me do some research, aren't you?) just a thing I "heard" from a "relatively reliable source."

Now I'm off to verify my sources....


You're so funny!! No, don't research!! You sound like me in my pre-withdrawal days...the queen of research. I couldn't help myself. Just so inquisitive!!

I'll use a teaspoon of Borax when soaking. I definitely don't want to harm my thyroid further. xx
Effexor XR 300 (brand) mg & various SSRIs 15 yrs (Effexor XR 300 mg past 10 yrs
Clonazepam, 1.0 mg. am, .5 mg pm. - 15 yrs, 7-17-16- Began .5 three times a day
Vyvanse 60 mg, - 2 yrs, Cut to 50 mg for 6 mths, Cut to 30 mg. on 4-1-16. Tapering.
Approx. 4-1-15 began Effexor XR 300 taper, very slowly for a year. Held at 37.5 for about 3 mths. Cut to 18 mg for 2 wks to 0. WD began 2 wks later. Depression, anxiety, paranoia, low appetite, nausea.
7-14-16-Reinstated 5 beads Effx after 4 mths misery.Pooped out 10 days.
9-12-16-to present- Wide eyed terror, bedridden fear, no appetite/feeling of being full.
10-30-16- Began 15% liquid tapering of 30 mg Vyvanse. (25 mg)
11-13-16- Liquid Vyvanse 22 mg,11-27-16- Liquid 15 mg, 12-12-16- Vyvanse 12.5 for 5 days. 12-16 - 12-29, 15 mg.
11-20-16- Switched back to 1.0 clonazepam am & .5 bedtime
12-30-16- Moved to 15 mg COMPOUNDED Vyvanse.Current 4/11-4/25 7.5 mg.(10% ev 2 wks)
Current meds:Effexor XR- 5 Beads, Clonazepam-1.0 mg am, .5 mg bedtime,Vyvanse-(tapering) Estradiol- 2
mg,Progesterone 200 mg,Testosterone 30 mg/ml,Nature Throid- 48.75 mg.(12-21-16-65 mg.) (4-18-17-81.25 mg) Current supplements: Fish Oil-1360 mg, Curamin- 2706 mg.

#36 JanCarol

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 07:24 PM

OK - borax in drinking water does have a detox effect.

 

Sadly, the research is very thin on the ground, but the chemical reaction looks like this:

 Borax reacts with fluoride ions to form boron fluorides 

 

When taken internally, yes, these fluorides are excreted in your urine, which is detoxing.

 

In the bath, boron fluorides are apparently inert.  It does not apparently react with chlorine (bummer).   BUT - I've been reading about ancient treatments for everything, and all toxicity was treated with salt.  So having a salty bath might bind and improve the chemical profile.  But be gentle - like seawater.

 

You know, how good it would be for arthritis and inflammatory conditions to bathe in seawater daily?  Well similar, only recreating it in the bath.  If I were you, always have salt in the bath.  (Iodine also binds to fluoride, but I think that's mostly internally, I couldn't find anyone who put iodine in the bath.  It's a detox protocol, and may be why some people react to iodine.  Ergo - maybe not iodized salt!)

 

If you think about it, fluoride is measured in ppb (parts per billion) - so it wouldn't take much boron to neutralize that.  

 

Logically, you would stir the bath well. I bought an old ping-pong paddle for stirring the bath - I wanted an oar, but couldn't find one at the secondhand shops!

 

ACV, Apple Cider Vinegar or ascorbic acid - I've seen recipes for that too - but I can't tell the facts from the fanatics on that one.  It's helpful, I use it to help the absorption of the magnesium - but I don't trust it to handle the fluoride - otherwise we'd all have a bottle at table, and put drops of it in our water.  We don't (but iodine is still used to purify water).

 

Sources:  sorry, this was not a scientific one.  All I could get for sure was the chemical reaction.  All the other information is from HealthNut Natural Healthy You type sites, or even PrisonPlanet / Infowars (they are very anti-fluoride there).  


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!