success ☼ freespirit: Mirtazapine withdrawal

[Tilly]

 

I didn't see you as complaining about your cats dental work. Many of us share the attachment you have and the sense of what they bring to you life. We have a thread in the off topic section where we share photos/stories of our fur babies.

 

Thanks. I looked at that thread awhile back and will check again. As I remember, it was mostly posts about dogs..maybe we need some cat lovers to post there too.

 

Hands up! I love my feline companions 

[Tilly]

freespirit,

 

Please excuse me, I have not read all of your recent posts, due to my own concentration issues. I will, when able to and then repost. I am responding to the posts that I read in relation to your holistic care.

 

I was a yoga practitioner for several years specialising in baby, children, adult and therapeutically specific yoga  (qualifying after 15+ years of self practice).   

 

The manager of my practice was not at all in line in her thinking with me. I believe, if it works, keep doing it. Her belief was change = value for money and a better corporate model.

 

Our partnership dissolved as a consequence of a mismatch of her beliefs and mine and poor management on her behalf.

 

Alternative healers and practitioners at their best empower you to elicit healing within yourself and enable you to become your own healer.

 

Radical changes are neither helpful or conducive to well being.

 

Listen to your mind and body. It will guide you well.

 

This is the role of healing practitioners. To empower you to heal yourself. If they take you on a wild goose chase, they are chasing money and profit as opposed to the best interests of your health.

 

You are so wise, freespirit. The power to elicit positive change is within you.

 

I hope that my feedback has not caused offence. It was not my intention.

 

Much love and healing to you.

 

Tilly x

[freespirit]

I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond on this issue Tilly...especially given how things are for you right now. No apology necessary on anything you've said here. I think your post contains a great deal of wisdom and truth.

 

I think there are too few practitioners who are able to work with their egos..and truly support clients in being empowered around their own health. Until I feel in a better position to take care of myself around this, I'll probably not see anyone new.

[freespirit]

Update

 

It's 9 months today since I took my last Remeron. Though it's been very difficult at time, I've never looked back. I knew when I stopped that I would never take another AD, no matter what. I stand even firmer in that now. I intend to update my medical directive to say no AD, if I'm not in a position to make decisions for myself. AD are quite often given to people here who are at the end of life. I do not want to be in that kind of a fog in my last days, nor dealing with WD if I can no longer swallow.

 

Back pain has been quite severe this week and seems untouched by stretching, magnesium baths or lotion, heat, massage,  or anything else I've tried. I realized the other day that I could drive to the next town and see a friend who does cranial sacral therapy. I haven't had any during WD, but have found it an effective and gentle bodywork in the past. I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get in to see her. She works very gently and carefully, so I have no worries on that count. Better than trying to see someone new.

 

In spite of the pain, I've managed to do at least some exercise every day. I've also got quite a bit done out in the yard. The thing is, my back only hurts when standing or walking...so I can sit and weed no problem, ride my bike, and even swim. It is getting wearing though.

 

Had a few really good nights of sleep, broken by a couple of not-so-good ones. I can't identify any reasons, except one night I totally forgot to use my SAD light..I woke at 3 this morning, after 5 hours of sleep. No sweating, anxiety, rumination or even feeling suddenly wide awake. I listened to a couple of meditations and cuddled one of my cats. Never went back to sleep, which hasn't happened in awhile. Today might be a less productive day, as I am tired. Did manage a walk at the beach with a friend this morning though.

 

I'm really feeling drawn to trying some foods I haven't attempted in the past 6 months. Like everything, it's trial and error. My body is changing though, not asking for so much protein..which means I'm only eating meat every other day. And I've been drinking a green smoothie every day. I've been considering buying some allergy imagery, as I'd like to work on that level of changing my body's reactions to foods. I'm encouraged by Alto, Gia and others who have been able to eat more higher histamine foods again. Healing is always possible.

 

Have been trying to reframe the symptoms of WD. Instead of saying I have a destabilized nervous system, I'm telling myself I have a re-balancing nervous system. It might sound silly, but to me, it's putting things in a more positive light. It's the difference between telling myself I'm sick and saying that I'm healing.

 

I know that my perspective on this whole process is different, given my history. But I find myself increasingly uncomfortable with pathologizing of symptoms. All of the emotional symptoms have been the same as I've gone through in the grief process. Even a lot of the physical ones were there, although not as intensely. I know most people would describe this as dp/dr...but since my wife died, I've gone through many, many times of not knowing who the heck I am. To me, this is a spiritual process..not a pathological one. I can't ever go back to who I was, nor would I want to. The process is awkward, uncomfortable, disorienting, and sometimes upsetting...but it's a journey I'm committed to. I find the more I can let go, the more free I am...though the letting go itself is not easy.

 

Perhaps because of this being an anniversary of sorts, I've been reflecting back on my choices around tapering and jumping off. I would never recommend that someone else do what I've done..yet, I feel I made the right decisions for myself. I have no regrets about how I did this. The AD had done so much damage to my health; had I slowed and waited, I might well have died from a heart attack or stroke. And it's been since I actually stopped that I've been able to make deeper changes to my diet, be more regular with exercise, and generally feel more that I've taken back power regarding my health.

[RubyTuesday]

Congratulations on getting off the Remiron. I know how hard this is. sorry about your back pain. I hear you on de-pathologizing symptoms. kudos to you!!!

[Tilly]

Hi free 

 

I'm stopping by, while I am able, to send you love hugs and continued healing.

 

I like your reflections and will comment further when I am more able.

 

I appreciate your messages and photos. They made me smile and brightened my day. Thank you!

 

Be gentle with yourself. Especially around anniversaries, which can heighten emotions.

 

Tilly x

[MissTrish]

I appreciate your share so very much!  Sometimes I feel very alone with my symptoms, particularly the ones where I am hyper-sensitive to just about everything I ingest.  Nowhere but here have I found others going through the same thing.  Struggling w/histamine right now - need to re-focus on my diet.  Just realized that yogurt, which was helping my gut, is high in histamine.

 

I like that you are re-framing your process, without making a negative judgment on it.  We're all experiencing the human condition, really, in one way or another - it's not good or bad.  It just is.

 

Thank you for checking in!

[Lilu]

Update

 

It's 9 months today since I took my last Remeron. Though it's been very difficult at time, I've never looked back. I knew when I stopped that I would never take another AD, no matter what. I stand even firmer in that now. I intend to update my medical directive to say no AD, if I'm not in a position to make decisions for myself. AD are quite often given to people here who are at the end of life. I do not want to be in that kind of a fog in my last days, nor dealing with WD if I can no longer swallow.

 

Back pain has been quite severe this week and seems untouched by stretching, magnesium baths or lotion, heat, massage,  or anything else I've tried. I realized the other day that I could drive to the next town and see a friend who does cranial sacral therapy. I haven't had any during WD, but have found it an effective and gentle bodywork in the past. I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get in to see her. She works very gently and carefully, so I have no worries on that count. Better than trying to see someone new.

 

In spite of the pain, I've managed to do at least some exercise every day. I've also got quite a bit done out in the yard. The thing is, my back only hurts when standing or walking...so I can sit and weed no problem, ride my bike, and even swim. It is getting wearing though.

 

Had a few really good nights of sleep, broken by a couple of not-so-good ones. I can't identify any reasons, except one night I totally forgot to use my SAD light..I woke at 3 this morning, after 5 hours of sleep. No sweating, anxiety, rumination or even feeling suddenly wide awake. I listened to a couple of meditations and cuddled one of my cats. Never went back to sleep, which hasn't happened in awhile. Today might be a less productive day, as I am tired. Did manage a walk at the beach with a friend this morning though.

 

I'm really feeling drawn to trying some foods I haven't attempted in the past 6 months. Like everything, it's trial and error. My body is changing though, not asking for so much protein..which means I'm only eating meat every other day. And I've been drinking a green smoothie every day. I've been considering buying some allergy imagery, as I'd like to work on that level of changing my body's reactions to foods. I'm encouraged by Alto, Gia and others who have been able to eat more higher histamine foods again. Healing is always possible.

 

Have been trying to reframe the symptoms of WD. Instead of saying I have a destabilized nervous system, I'm telling myself I have a re-balancing nervous system. It might sound silly, but to me, it's putting things in a more positive light. It's the difference between telling myself I'm sick and saying that I'm healing.

 

I know that my perspective on this whole process is different, given my history. But I find myself increasingly uncomfortable with pathologizing of symptoms. All of the emotional symptoms have been the same as I've gone through in the grief process. Even a lot of the physical ones were there, although not as intensely. I know most people would describe this as dp/dr...but since my wife died, I've gone through many, many times of not knowing who the heck I am. To me, this is a spiritual process..not a pathological one. I can't ever go back to who I was, nor would I want to. The process is awkward, uncomfortable, disorienting, and sometimes upsetting...but it's a journey I'm committed to. I find the more I can let go, the more free I am...though the letting go itself is not easy.

 

Perhaps because of this being an anniversary of sorts, I've been reflecting back on my choices around tapering and jumping off. I would never recommend that someone else do what I've done..yet, I feel I made the right decisions for myself. I have no regrets about how I did this. The AD had done so much damage to my health; had I slowed and waited, I might well have died from a heart attack or stroke. And it's been since I actually stopped that I've been able to make deeper changes to my diet, be more regular with exercise, and generally feel more that I've taken back power regarding my health.

 

Freespirit, I so admire you.  I get so frustrated when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep. At first I'm calm, but then I get angry and irritated. It's been 6 months of this. Even though it's been 10 months since my last dose of my antidepressant, my use of sleep drugs, has probably prolonged my withdrawal. I haven't had a single week of good sleep since October of 2014. I have gotten better at handling being sleep deprived, but at night, I just resist. I don't know how to stop resisting. Like last night I was woken up by the phone ringing loudly and starling me out of my sleep at 12am. My heart started racing, I got really upset that a wrong number woke me up and that my bedroom phone was not turned off, as I thought. And afterwards, despite getting up for a snack, doing deep breathing, and listening to relaxing music, i couldn't fall back asleep. I turned to Ambien once again. But the stupid drug barely works on me anymore - 2 hrs of sleep on 5 mgs. Dam.

 

Oh how I wish I could learn to take care of myself that way you seem to take care of yourself.

 

What kind of SAD light do you use? I thought those type of lights are to help people wake up in the morning since they resemble the sun's rays. But you use one at night?

[freespirit]

  Sometimes I feel very alone with my symptoms, particularly the ones where I am hyper-sensitive to just about everything I ingest.  Nowhere but here have I found others going through the same thing.  Struggling w/histamine right now - need to re-focus on my diet.  Just realized that yogurt, which was helping my gut, is high in histamine.

 

The loneliness factor in all of this has been huge for me. I hardly talk with anyone I know anymore regarding my wd, especially diet and histamine issues. I know it's pretty boring if you are outside of the experience. It does help being on here, both to gain knowledge, and to be amongst people who are struggling too.

 

The diet/histamine issue is complicated. In the beginning, I was reading all the lists and wondering what I could eat. The lists are contradictory, so most of it turns out to be trying things out and seeing how it goes. A couple of things that helped were: no leftovers stored in the fridge, eating smaller meals, and keeping meals very simple. I got a bit lax over the past while around leftovers and meal size (it's kind of a nuisance having to eat 5 small meals a day and preparing fresh every single time)...but I'm back to those things, because they make a big difference.

 

I'm even making my own coconut milk and almond milk, because I was reacting to the additives in the store bought. Turns out those milks are easy to make and since they only store a couple of days in the fridge, I make them in very small batches.

 

How are you making out with your diet?

 

I tried coconut milk yogurt..some people are able to eat that. I didn't like the taste of it though. It took about 4 months of the diet before I was able to add a very simple probiotic. When I was ready for it, it did seem to help with the digestive issues..

 

I just bought one of the low histamine chef's books, as she emphasizes antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods...plus recipes that are more interesting than how I've been eating the past 6 months. I'm trying to incorporate at least 1 antihistamine food into 3 of my meals each day. I planted greens (chard and lettuce), plus some herbs in my garden here..and will add some zucchini to it when the frost date has passed. That way, I get fresh, organic veg and herbs while the season lasts.

 

Self-care is a full-time job in wd!

[freespirit]

Freespirit, I so admire you.  I get so frustrated when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep. At first I'm calm, but then I get angry and irritated. It's been 6 months of this. Even though it's been 10 months since my last dose of my antidepressant, my use of sleep drugs, has probably prolonged my withdrawal. I haven't had a single week of good sleep since October of 2014. I have gotten better at handling being sleep deprived, but at night, I just resist. I don't know how to stop resisting. Like last night I was woken up by the phone ringing loudly and starling me out of my sleep at 12am. My heart started racing, I got really upset that a wrong number woke me up and that my bedroom phone was not turned off, as I thought. And afterwards, despite getting up for a snack, doing deep breathing, and listening to relaxing music, i couldn't fall back asleep. I turned to Ambien once again. But the stupid drug barely works on me anymore - 2 hrs of sleep on 5 mgs. Dam.

 

Oh how I wish I could learn to take care of myself that way you seem to take care of yourself.

 

What kind of SAD light do you use? I thought those type of lights are to help people wake up in the morning since they resemble the sun's rays. But you use one at night?

 

 

Long-term insomnia is really tough to deal with. There have been times in my life where I didn't even want to go to bed, because I was so sick of not sleeping. I have waged a lot of war with it over the years. Partly it's different now, because I have some nights of sleeping reasonably well.

 

Have you tried natural things like Calm's Forte or rescue remedy? I never found they worked all the time (nothing does for me)..but they have given me breaks at times..and no side effects that I ever noticed from them.

 

You can learn to develop more self-care...it's not an easy or straightforward path for most of us. As women, we are mostly taught how to take care of everyone else...I was much better at that then I was at taking care of myself. I struggled with feeling selfish, indulgent, or that I wasn't being productive enough in other ways..I still sometimes wish I could put some energy into some other things too...but for now, this is where it's at.

 

I started using a SAD light during the winters many years ago. Living in a gray climate over the winter is a big challenge--my mood is lower and I tend be less active than in the warmer months.. I've used it throughout tapering, so never stopped using it last summer. Most people use it in the AM to improve energy and mood. After stopping remeron, I went though a period of falling asleep earlier and earlier every night..and waking up between 3 and 4 AM. I talked with the naturopath and did some research. This is know as advanced sleep cycle, which is common in women age 60 and over. I decided to try the light in the evening to see if it helped..and it has..I now stay up to a more normal time 10-11 and am not waking up early nearly as often. I do hope to be able to stop using it over the summer..and will start up again in the fall.

[freespirit]

Hi free 

 

I'm stopping by, while I am able, to send you love hugs and continued healing.

 

I like your reflections and will comment further when I am more able.

 

I appreciate your messages and photos. They made me smile and brightened my day. Thank you!

 

Be gentle with yourself. Especially around anniversaries, which can heighten emotions.

 

Tilly x

Thanks for coming by Tilly. I'm sorry things have been so tough for you..it sounds really hard. I'll come by and write on your thread too. Take care of yourself.

[freespirit]

Congratulations on getting off the Remiron. I know how hard this is. sorry about your back pain. I hear you on de-pathologizing symptoms. kudos to you!!!

Thanks RT. I just hate that western medicine and psychology have turned everything into a disorder to be treated with drugs and therapy. I know far too many people that have ended up on AD when they are going though a natural process of grief. I very purposefully have not mentioned a word to my doctor about sleep, appetite, mood, or energy since my wife died....or I'd have been faced with another argument about AD. He knows I've come off Remeron, but I also never talked to him about coming off the rest of the drugs. Don't have it in me to argue about these things...

[freespirit]

I've had some relief from the back pain, but also some times of it being so intense it literally takes my breath away. I'm managing as best I can with it. I keep telling myself it will change at some point too.

 

Last week, I went to see a friend for craniosacral therapy. It used to be a mainstay for me, but haven't had a session in over 3 years. While I believe it can be helpful in balancing the nervous system, reducing pain, etc...I guess I wasn't ready for it before now. The session itself was divine. It's been awhile since I felt that deeply relaxed, especially in the presence of someone else. I had a very small ripple that evening of physical and emotional symptoms, but it passed very quickly. I was really encouraged by that and hope to continue with the sessions.

 

I'm in a wave of more physical symptoms, in addition to the back pain. More sneezing, digestive issues, heavy fatigue, temperature dysregulation, and some brain fog. Yet I continue to sleep well, mostly about 7 hours without waking up. If I do wake, I go right back to sleep. I've even taken a few naps in the afternoon, for about 1/2 hour..and this had no impact on my ability to sleep at night. At least everything isn't becoming unbalanced.

 

In spite of all the physical stuff, my mood remains mostly good. I've had a few moments here and there of being more irritable, and feeling a little discouraged....but mostly, I just keep on moving forward with whatever I can manage that day..and am largely able to be content with whatever that happens to be.

 

Yesterday I bought groceries, cleaned the house, and mowed the front lawn. I felt fatigued, but these things didn't make it worse. I took a lot of breaks, so it took me most of the day to complete everything. I even managed a short spin on my exercise bike in the evening.

 

Now I'm down to the couple of jobs I've been avoiding...taxes, and preparing the fences and decks for staining. I'll feel better if I can get my taxes done today. The other things might have to wait.

 

I don't know whether the current wave is connected with reducing my SAD light, making some changes to my diet, more allergens because of change of season, amount of time I'm spending outside exposed to allergens..or it just is a wave that would have happened regardless. I'm doing my best not to try a bunch of new things right now. Very tempted to bring back krill oil, but that's coming from my head..not my body. Best to not add anything, but just ride it out. This too will pass.

 

That being said, I'm looking at some guided imagery for brain injury and one for allergies. Might be something that proves helpful, once things settle again.

 

It is still often slow going in the mornings and I tend to feel better later on in the day. I've generally been one to start things early in the day, exercise then, and take it easy later on. One has to just keep on adapting in this process and go with the flow. Fighting against it only makes me more tired.

[MissTrish]

I am so glad you are sleeping; that is the basis, IMO, on which recovery lies.  I'm not a huge fan of doctors, but they are sometimes helpful - have you seen one to know exactly what is going on with your back?  Probably you have; if not, I wonder if it would be a good idea.

 

Despite the physical symptoms, it sounds like you are in a good place.  I'm glad to hear it.

[freespirit]

Hi Miss Trish,

 

Nope, I haven't seen my doctor. If we had a walk-in clinic in this area, I might have done that. My doctor however seems to have only 1 viewpoint on me. Anytime I've tried to talk with him about pain, he calls it "depression" and wants to give AD. Anyone reading my posts would know that I'm not depressed (which is something I don't even believe in anymore). There is no convincing him of seeing me in any other light....

 

But yesterday, I had an emotional release after doing qi gong. I was in a space of just opening to the pain and being more receptive to what it might be trying to tell me. I spent the rest of the day in and out of some old traumas, grief, feeling a lot of rage about not being protected as a child..and of being emotionally shut down by my mother. Any emotion at all that passed over my face was met with anger, disapproval or shaming. And yet she somehow did not see the results of sexual abuse that was happening under her own roof. Sorry, this might be TMI for some folks. I apologize.

 

It was a very intense day emotionally. I have not been angry at my mother in awhile. In fact, through being a widow, I've come to understand more of that might have been underlying her treatment of us. I've tried to imagine what it might be like to be in such intense mourning, while being responsible for 3 little kids (that you never wanted in the first place). There have been a lot of times through my own grief where I could barely take care of myself. At one point, I even convinced myself that I needed to let go of one of my cats, who was constantly whining for no known reason. I don't know that I could have managed with children..

 

It was also a day of wild and wacky physical symptoms..accompanied by weird blood sugar fluctuations..head pain, arm pain, strange visual things, and some times of overwhelming fatigue. I don't know whether to consider it PTSD, a wave, grief, or some combination of..in the end, it probably doesn't matter much.

 

Though I sometimes had thoughts of wondering if this would stop the back pain, I didn't let myself linger there...as this more or less amounts to bargaining, which for me, is only being willing to things part way and a kind of "I'll feel this, if it will get me that." That has never been an effective way through, though I have tried it repeatedly. lol .  I tried instead, to just let things be and as much as possible, be mindful of the process without acting out of the anger I was feeling at times.

 

So far, my back is much better today. Not sure if that will last..or if there is more to be released. But I'm grateful for at least a respite.

 

I'm starting to understand better the connections I have between trauma and grief. It was the death of my dad at a very young age that really defined a lot of my life. And the majority of abuse began after his death..though there was also some before. So for me, big loss means not being able to protect myself and sets my nervous system in fight/flight mode. The death of my wife also brought a lot of anxiety early-on, fears I wouldn't be able to manage on my own, a loss of some sense of protection, and an extreme sense of vulnerability. And of course trauma brings with it so much grief..which I found largely unacknowledged through therapy. There's loss of so much, not just at the time of abuse, but a lifetime accumulation of losses of dreams, relationships, intimacy, health, etc.

[RubyTuesday]

 

So far, my back is much better today. Not sure if that will last..or if there is more to be released. But I'm grateful for at least a respite.

 

I'm starting to understand better the connections I have between trauma and grief. It was the death of my dad at a very young age that really defined a lot of my life. And the majority of abuse began after his death..though there was also some before. So for me, big loss means not being able to protect myself and sets my nervous system in fight/flight mode. The death of my wife also brought a lot of anxiety early-on, fears I wouldn't be able to manage on my own, a loss of some sense of protection, and an extreme sense of vulnerability. And of course trauma brings with it so much grief..which I found largely unacknowledged through therapy. There's loss of so much, not just at the time of abuse, but a lifetime accumulation of losses of dreams, relationships, intimacy, health, etc.

thanks for sharing about trauma, something I have a lot of as well...

I notice I go through periods of release from pain following release of emotion, but slip back into the old habits of holding and freezing again and then the pain comes back

just found a whole new approach to working with trauma: Sensory Experiencing (?) Peter Levine

apparently the "immobility response" is a biological adaptation that aids animals in escaping predation. so fight/flight is actually fight/flight/freeze

anyway I am still reading this and working out how to implement it, and also still taking Lamictal & Seroquel which are sedating, but it seems to me for starters that the sedatives increased my already problematic stuckness in immobility/freeze. apparently "exiting immobility" is tricky, and involves increased "arousal" or panic etc., but these symptoms will fade on their own. anyway allowing my body to tremble for short periods rather than holding and tensing against it turns out to be very useful. reminding me of years ago B.C (before children) I had a Reichian bodyworker who used to encourage me to let my jaw drop and let my face tremble.

someone mentioned joints cracking and hurting up there above in their signature, that is probably the worst symptom I have as it keeps me from dancing or walking which are my best depression busters. and it triggers memories of being "frightened and restrained" which caused the worst PTSD and longest periods of immobility in animals in experiments (ya think?)

of course psych meds are in themselves traumatic as they damage the nervous system...

[MissTrish]

Totally understand where you're coming from on the doctor issue, freespirit - same here.  It's always 'all in my head', although obviously those aren't the words they use.  I grew up with those words, though.

 

Anyway, I just asked because sometimes there are disc issues in our backs that cause us pain and for me, it's always nice to know if there is a real physical reason for my pain.  It's not always emotionally based.

[freespirit]

RT, I'm familiar with Peter Levine's work. I tried some of the exercises, but perhaps didn't give it enough of a chance. Instead, I got a therapist who did the work and while it helped initially..well, he was the one who tried to strong arm me into moving from my house a year after my wife died, as well as divulging personal info to several people in the very small community I live--without my permission. I came away more traumatized than I went in. Now, I pretty much shun anything that smacks of therapy. Perhaps that's throwing the baby out the with bathwater, but it's where I'm at right now. I'm also not very fond of a more masculine approach to the female psyche, though Peter Levine's work is more gentle and empowering than most. Again, a number of very negative experiences through working with men whose approach was to blast through everything. I know Peter isn't at all about that...

 

I hope you'll post some about anything you notice when doing this work with yourself. Perhaps it will be helpful in reducing some of the physical issues, so you'll be able to get back to some of the things you love doing. I find it's very hard letting go of physical things...

 

It's tough to find ways to not go back into the same holding patterns. It's also hard to know whether that is happening, or whether it's continual layers of stuff releasing..or some combination of those 2. It's part of why I work in a daily or several times daily way of the practices I do. I hope by over and over showing my body what it means to be relaxed, it will help shift things over the long term. I more often notice now too, when I'm adding tension back in or holding my breath. I'm much more connected with my body than I was when on ad.

 

And yes, ad definitely can add to the trauma on a number of levels. I sometimes shudder when I think about what I've done to my poor body over the past 10 years with different medications. Not a very wise thing for someone with an already sensitive nervous system..but we all do the best we can at the time.

[freespirit]

Totally understand where you're coming from on the doctor issue, freespirit - same here.  It's always 'all in my head', although obviously those aren't the words they use.  I grew up with those words, though.

 

Anyway, I just asked because sometimes there are disc issues in our backs that cause us pain and for me, it's always nice to know if there is a real physical reason for my pain.  It's not always emotionally based.

 

It can be helpful to know when pain is actually caused by something concrete. I might make the hour drive and go to a clinic somewhere else. I don't get so offended by a doc I don't know saying stupid things. It was hurting lying in bed this morning, which concerned me. I had a similar kind of pain in a completely different area of my back in Dec and it finally went away after a time.

 

I think it's not so great that I'm as adverse as I am to western medicine and my doc in particular (but impossible to get another doctor here, though I keep on looking--we are in desperate shortage). I know that I could probably go a long time with something really wrong, and just not be willing to seek help.

 

My doc has this habit of doing one blood test or one x-ray, then announcing there is nothing wrong and what I have is "depression". I also have some bad feeling towards him around a few things that happened when my wife was dying--he was her doc as well. His action and inaction caused unnecessary suffering for her, and consequently for me. I never addressed this with him and perhaps I should of. But I expect I would only have been shut down on that count too.

[MissTrish]

I hear ya' on the viewpoint on docs, and if you live in a small community and have seen the same doc for years (as it sounds like you have), then he/she's likely already got you sorted in his mind into a 'depression' category.  And that's okay - he has the right to his belief system.  But as a friend of mine tells me, "well, if he called you a chair, does that mean you're a chair???"

 

I've taken to seeing doctors as tools at my disposal rather than gods who might have power over me.  It's just a wee change in viewpoint, but it helps me a lot.  I do not believe these aches and pains fall under the 'disease' category of 'depression'.  I think a low mood and anxiety are simply manifestations, same as pains and other physical weirdness, of a biochemical process  that likely relates to all kinds of things like histamines, hormones, maybe even some auto-immune issues.  It's not a disease of an illness.  It's just a fluctuating state of being that is at times intensely uncomfortable but not all the time.  I realize that doctors are not trained to see it that way - but I do, and talking online with people like you help me to see it and understand it better all the time.

 

I do see a therapist and I appreciate that she is intensely practical - big on cognitive behavioral therapy, which works well for me (although I'm not ready to commit to an hour of aerobic exercise per day!).  She tells me that I should describe myself not as depressed but as a lovely human being who has some depression.  I'm okay with that.  That was my state of being before I ever started taking a/ds.  And I'm also in touch with the spiritual aspect of life - I tend to be of a nature-based appreciation of spirituality.  I study and work at my path and that is also a big factor in helping me, as your work with Qi Gong does for you.

 

I appreciate you being here to share!

[RubyTuesday]

RT, I'm familiar with Peter Levine's work. I tried some of the exercises, but perhaps didn't give it enough of a chance. Instead, I got a therapist who did the work and while it helped initially..well, he was the one who tried to strong arm me into moving from my house a year after my wife died, as well as divulging personal info to several people in the very small community I live--without my permission. I came away more traumatized than I went in. Now, I pretty much shun anything that smacks of therapy. Perhaps that's throwing the baby out the with bathwater,

 

I basically use all these therapy books strictly for self help and shun all therapists especially men, as I have a long history of problems with psychotherapy, but I shared about that earlier. so sorry your therapist broke your confidentiality, that is horrible. anyway I will keep you posted.

[freespirit]

I appreciate your experience and viewpoint too, Miss Trish. It sounds like you've got a very healthy attitude when it comes to dealing with doctors. I think I'd do better with someone where I don't have that long and complicated history. Like yesterday, I saw the ophthalmologist that I only visit once a year because of having diabetes. I've seen him 3 times now. When he saw my history that I was now off all my meds and had lost 42 pounds, he was not only congratulatory, he was also interested in how I'd achieved all that. When he asked whether I was still having floaters and blurry vision, I said I was still suffering from ad withdrawal. Perhaps he's heard this before, but he just went on to ask how it was bothering me and if I noticed exactly when it seemed to be worse. I came away wishing he was my regular doc. He didn't try to tell me ad withdrawal was impossible..which I've never mentioned to my family doc, as I'm sure he would not agree with me. 

 

I honestly don't see docs as gods and never have. I think a lot of them are actually very ill-informed and have extremely poor interpersonal skills. They do have power regarding things like testing and prescriptions. Since I'm not interested in taking any drugs, the scripts are not an issue. I am supposed to have diabetes blood work every 3 months, though I think I could easily go less often..and need him to write me a requisition every year for that. And he has to give me the yearly referral for eye exams. Beyond that, I never really see him. If I don't feel well, I see the naturopath.

 

My wife had this saying about things in life she was fed up with. She'd say, "I've reached my lifetime limit on____". Well, I've reached my lifetime limit on people telling me what I feel, what's good for me, or how I should be living my life. Perhaps it's the rebellion I needed to go through as a teen, but didn't fully manage. I wish that when docs tried to say stupid things that it didn't bother me, but it does. I don't like being seen as less than who I am. Just what I'm wrestling with right now.

 

I like what your therapist said about describing yourself..and it's good that you have found things that work for you. I've found it's not any one thing that can fill all needs, which is what I used to try and do. I have this patchwork of practices that I call upon as I need them, with a few things that stay as daily work for a period of time.

[freespirit]

 

I basically use all these therapy books strictly for self help and shun all therapists especially men, as I have a long history of problems with psychotherapy, but I shared about that earlier. so sorry your therapist broke your confidentiality, that is horrible. anyway I will keep you posted.

 

 

 

Yes, I remember you said therapy wasn't a good experience for you either. I think there can be a lot of wisdom in finding anything that works for any period of time. I liked listening to Peter Levine and very much appreciated his views on trauma and how to work with it. I'll be interested to hear how this goes for you for sure.

 

I don't know exactly all the levels that qi gong works on..but I sense there are some subtle releases of trauma, moving of old energy blockages and shifting of holding patterns. I suspect there are many ways of working with releasing these things, just depending on where we are, and what works in the moment.

 

I know you've mentioned yoga before. For awhile, I was reading about trauma-sensitive yoga and thought it might be a good fit..but there is nobody anywhere near here doing it. Is it something you know about?

[dalsaan]

I have a trauma history too and for the past 2 years have been trying to work through my feelings about my mother who is very emotionally inept. It's a work in progress

 

I have found this book useful - http://www.drlaurenceheller.com

 

Dalsaan

[MissTrish]

Dalsaan, I ran across the article this week about healing the mother wound:

http://womboflight.com/2014/01/18/why-its-crucial-for-women-to-heal-the-mother-wound/

I thought it was really insightful.

[RubyTuesday]

 

 

My wife had this saying about things in life she was fed up with. She'd say, "I've reached my lifetime limit on____". 

many years ago I was diagnosed with candida, very early on in the understanding of that as a disease, the doc who diagnosed me then moved away and I went looking for another one, doc #2 decided I needed a colonoscopy, in those days they did those with no anasthetic, so this guy literally has a tube up my butt and he asks me what  is wrong with me, I tell him I have candida and he says "oh that's not a real medical diagnosis" this guy was young, blond, and blue eyed, and that's when I reached my lifetime limit on the arrogance of both docs and young white men, and gee, I was only in my 20s!!!

[RubyTuesday]

so why, after all that (see above) did I get on psych meds?

for the answer to these and other questions you would never think to ask,

check out my hypothetical future blog

offhermeds.us

(not actually there yet, still "developing content.")

[RubyTuesday]

I have a trauma history too and for the past 2 years have been trying to work through my feelings about my mother who is very emotionally inept. It's a work in progress

 

I have found this book useful - http://www.drlaurenceheller.com

 

Dalsaan

thank you for both links dalsaan, I do have Laurence heller's book as well as one of Peter Levine's, I ran into a lady in a cafe the other day reading a Levine book so I went home and ordered both from Amazon

as per your other link: I think it was Adrienne Rich who wrote "the woman I needed to call my mother was killed before I was born." or something like that.

[freespirit]

I have a trauma history too and for the past 2 years have been trying to work through my feelings about my mother who is very emotionally inept. It's a work in progress

 

I have found this book useful - http://www.drlaurenceheller.com

 

Dalsaan

Thanks for this. I had a quick look and have saved it for later.

 

"a work in progress" describes things well. I started therapy in 1988...so yep, have been working on this a very long time. Things got better for me with my Mom as she aged. Most people with dementia get angry or mean...for my Mom, it softened her. I would never have thought I'd be able to be there with her as she was dying, but I managed a few months. And since she'd died, some aspects have become more clear and easier.

[freespirit]

 and that's when I reached my lifetime limit on the arrogance of both docs and young white men, and gee, I was only in my 20s!!!

 

You had a head start!

 

so why, after all that (see above) did I get on psych meds?

for the answer to these and other questions you would never think to ask,

check out my hypothetical future blog

offhermeds.us

(not actually there yet, still "developing content.")

 

I'll look forward to reading more...but yes, I find myself often asking the question as to why I'd get on psych meds too.

[freespirit]

Update

 

Just in case anyone thinks I'm a little too "Zen"...you should have been around me yesterday. On Friday evening, I rode my exercise bike as I often do, after dinner. I had a full meal and yet, my blood sugar went extremely low once again (too bad my doctor is such an idiot, or I might inquire about that too). I felt pretty awful afterwards. When I tried going to bed, I could not fall asleep. This is not usual for me; my sleep problems usually are in not staying asleep. I got up for awhile, took some calms forte and rescue remedy and went back to bed around midnight. Around 3:30 I woke up and that was it for the night.

 

I wasn't upset about not sleeping, but I had a wave of strong emotions yesterday. I was angry at almost everything. Walked with a friend and spent a lot of time complaining about this and that. I wasn't exactly feeling sorry for myself, but starting thinking about everything that has transpired over the past 8 years and thought. WTH?? Isn't it about time for a break from loss, poor health, financial woes, and overall, feeling like every time I stand up, I get hit by a wave of something.

 

After some ruminating, I decided to take a nap. I slept for an hour and was better once I got up...but not great emotionally. Last night, I managed a full 7 hours without waking..and was in a much better mood today. But still exhausted. I'm trying to avoid sleeping today, as I don't want to start screwing up my sleep.

 

I have an appt. to see my doc in about 10 days. I agreed to a check-up, as they've been hounding me for 6 months..and it's something I have to do periodically in order to maintain my driver's license, because of the diabetes. There probably won't be time to mention blood sugar or back pain. But I will have fulfilled what I need to do for now.

 

Is there anyone else on here who has diabetes or pre-diabetes and is having trouble with low blood sugar? This makes no sense to me. I'm eating extremely well and can't figure out why I'm having so many episodes of hypoglycemia. My exercise is mild, slow, and not for long periods..and I've been exercising for several years now.

[Frustrated]

You have given me such good advice in the past I wish I could reciprocate. Unfortunately my sugars are always high and I am equally frustrated with that. I wish I could get mine lower. Even seeing a seven on my meter would be lovely but it hasn't happened in years. I hope you are able to figure it out. Eating a full meal should leave you with numbers around 7 to 10 an hour or two after even with exercise. Weird indeed!

[freespirit]

Thanks frustrated..I appreciate you checking in. I'm equally sorry you're wrestling with higher blood sugar, as it's just as miserable..and leaves one feeling out of control. Not eating as many grains these days, but I get carbs through veggies and fruit. I don't see how I can eat chicken, a full plate of veggies, rice cake with peanut butter, some fruit, drink diluted juice while riding and end up at 4 with 30 minutes of gentle bike riding...1 1/2 hours after eating. Does wd somehow affect your pancreas or is something happening with the endocrine system with regard to insulin?? Lots of times, my blood sugar does not go up at all or only 1 point after eating a full meal.

[Frustrated]

Wow ya that is low. Chicken and veggies would put my sugars at about 6 or 7 two hours after. That is without fruit and rice cakes. It is weird. Are you on meds or are you still off? Without meds it is almost like you are not diabetic at all. I can't even speculate in why that is happening.

[freespirit]

I'm not on any diabetes meds. Went off metformin last fall because low blood sugar was even worse..plus the nasty digestive side effects from it. I have always wondered about the diabetes diagnosis. It came after I had increased Remeron, had a car accident, and was on multiple pain meds, muscle relaxants. For most of my life before that, I had problems with hypoglycemia..but never like this. I used to be far more physically active and was able to do that just fine. Now I feel I can hardly step away from the kitchen..and I want to lose weight, not gain! I've even increased healthy fats like coconut oil, nuts or nut butters, tried extra protein...and nothing seems to make a difference.

[indigo]

Glad to come across  others reporting of violations by therapists. I also have a history of trauma

which makes it difficult to trust. I went to my last therapist, for a year and a half.

Talked about my trust issues from abusive childhood.

 (From age four,  I used to bury money in a jar in the garden in case my parents abandoned me)

This psychiatrist was listed as accepting Medicare  (almost free health care for over 65 in California)

but when I went to see him, he said he did not accept Medicare.  His fee was very high,

something I could not really afford but I was desperate enough so I kept seeing him.

 The expense was a huge burden and I was really struggling to pay him.

He often brought up his own problems with his wife during our sessions,

even told me a suggestive dream he'd had about me.

I was furious. Knew then I needed to quit.

Decided to contact Medicare to see if they would pay anything at all towards my therapy with him

even though he wasn't registered as a Medicare doctor.

They told me he was registered with Medicare and had no business charging me.

AND what he had been charging me was WAY over the limit allowed by Medicare doctors.

I felt betrayed. He had to pay me back  $ 6,500 or lose his license.