☼ GiantsWSC: Paxil Tapering , wave on low dose

[GiantsWSC]

Hi All,

 

A bit of history here. I've been on Paxil for around 15 years, maybe longer, but basically I've lost a lot of the feelings I've had for my GF and I realize it's most likely a drug induced issue. Per my signature, I've been tapering since Oct 2013 and am just below the 4 mg mark.

 

Question is, I don't feel it is fair to neither of us that I feel this way and wondering if I should prolong the relationship? I know marriages/relationships have been destroyed by these drugs and I don't want to hurt anyone including myself. I still have some feelings for her although not as strong as before. Mind you, I've been with her for about a year now and at that time I was around 6.2mg of paxil a day.

 

I do exhibit the typical symptoms of lack of libido, emotions, wanting to be by myself etc.

 

Any input is appreciated. Thank you

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Dan998
added tags

[RubyTuesday]

You should consult with her before you make any decisions. Make sure she understands all the issues around withdrawal and medication.

[GiantsWSC]

We talked about it and seems she quite understanding. I'm willing to do what it takes to maintain it. Thank you

[RubyTuesday]

i FEEL FOR you, a lot of us experience these feeling of depersonalization and anhedonia. rest assured it will get better.

[dewayne76]

I've spoken with MANY who had let's say, fallen in love during medication and during wd... and wound up realizing sometime after all the tapering etc, (usually many, many months later) they realize that they were with someone that isn't as compatible. . . and they went their separate ways. 

I don't want to scare you, it's just a "heads up"... this MAY well in fact be your story as well, but the trouble is, we don't know your compatibility partner or w/e and you may even be in MORE love than you first started out. 

Just consult with her, and make sure they know that it's very possible it could turn out either way. 

I'm depressed, and having issues myself now (my ex 3 years ago was changed on citalopram) and so I know it's best for me not to even be looking anymore. (I tried dating but realized I didn't like anybody else) I know for me, it's not fair for me to involve anyone else until I know I'm healthy again. And I am not even on drugs, I can only imagine what it's like for you guys... Good luck.

[GiantsWSC]

Hello All,

 

I joined the site early last year and used another site prior to this for help on tapering off Paxil and other anti-depressants.

 

I initially started a taper back in 2012 that was way to quick without any tapering knowledge, basically from 10mg to 5 mg and caused a lot of issues like lack of appetite, irritability, insomnia, tiredness, lack of enthusiasm doing anything, etc.

 

After learning that a slow taper (10% recommended) is best I started a much slower taper per my signature in Oct 2013. So now today I've been at the 2 mg for about a month and have encountered some symptoms the last 4-5 days. The symptoms aren't as bad as when I took the big drop in 2012 but I would say the worst symptom is the insomnia. I was doing quite well for the most part during the taper up until this point. 

 

Is this basically another wave that I'm encountering that will pass with time? I've hit a few waves during this taper process but so far this has been the most prominent.  I don't intend on up dosing but I'm not opposed to staying on the current dose for a longer period. I want to also add that I caught a cold 4-5 days ago so is it just a coincidence or did the cold have something to do with it? Had a cold last year but didn't affect me this way.

 

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you

 

 

 

[Fresh]

Hi GiantsWSC ,   welcome back.  Well done on making such good headway with your taper.

 

The cold may have disrupted your cns a little , but it sounds like it's an indicator that a good long hold is in order to allow

things to consolidate.  I'm thinking  3 months before any further decreases.

So many members report that holding every now and then seems to lessen the impact of symptoms after that.

 

Have you taken any new supplements or cold meds in the past week?   Even nasal sprays can trigger waves of symptoms.

If there's no particular culprit , I'd put it down to "just another bump in the road"  and know that it will settle soon.

 

There's a thread in the Symptoms section about insomnia that has some useful suggestions you may want to try.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[GiantsWSC]

Hi Fresh,

 

Thanks for the reply.Yes, the tapering road is a long one but I hope its rewarded in the end! I'm on the same page as you with the longer hold as I've heard the lower doses are more crucial and patience is important. 

 

I haven't taken cold meds or supplements besides vitamin C. I did take some Solgar Magnesium citrate and some Omega 3 fish oils on a regular basis but haven't been real good about taking them the past few months, I wonder if I should start back up?

 

 I'll take a look at the thread you suggested to see if I can get more information.

 

Thanks again and thanks for this site

[Fresh]

Here are some you might like:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2364-the-slowness-of-slow-tapers/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5560-can-a-long-hold-pull-you-out-of-a-taper-gone-amiss/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1218-clinicians-share-information-about-slow-tapering/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/555-tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-withdrawal-insomnia/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6122-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/

[GiantsWSC]

Thanks for posting those links Fresh!! Appreciate it!

[GiantsWSC]

I bought some 0.5mg of Trader Joes  chewable melatonin today and will probably split the pill and try a small dose to see how things go.

[GiantsWSC]

I don't think I slept at all last night, probably the worst night I've had to date. Tried melatonin (only small dose less than 0.5mg) took some ambien.

 

Listened to this post from Fresh: 

. Would probably have worked on a normal night but not last night. This is day 5 of getting really bad sleep with yesterday being the worst.

 

I'm going to try drinking some warm milk prior to going to bed tonight and see if that does anything. At this point I feel like I want to get sedated by an anesthesiologist and have me wake 8 hours later. 

 

Any help is welcomed, thanks

[GiantsWSC]

Don't think I slept a wink last night. So horrible.....haven't felt this ever in my tapering. 

 

Anyone have advice? I plan on not tapering for awhile and staying at my current dose. Is there a chance I may need to updose?

 

Any help is very appreciated

[GiantsWSC]

Should I updose just a bit to get some relief??? It's been 5 days of feeling crappy with today being the worst.

 

Need help feel very bad =(

[GiantsWSC]

Posted in another part of forum but not sure if it was right place. 

 

Today was the worst day so far in my 5 day withdrawl ordeal. Been on same dose for past month (see sig) only to have to have this most recent wave hit me.

 

Been hit with waves in past but not like this. Had a bad wave back when I first tried tapering without any proper knowledge when I tried going from 10mg to 5mg but that was back in 2012.

 

This current wave is very reminiscent of that last bad one and the only thing I remember doing was updose back to 10mg and proceed to taper the right way which is what I've been doing the past couple years.

 

Of course I'm not thinking about going to 10mg from my current level of 2mg, that would be nuts. But what I would like to know to help alleviate my current situation is: Should I stick this through in the hopes everything settles itself or try to go back up to my December level of 2.3mg and hold for a longer period?

 

Please help and thank you all.

[Petunia]

Hi Giants,

I joined the new topic you started with your original intro topic, its one thread per member here in the intro/update section. You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want. Its a good idea to bookmark it or follow it, so its easy to find again.

 

I'm sorry you have been hit with a wave after your last cut, even though you have been sticking with the 10% guidelines. Actually your last cut was slightly more than 10%, but only slightly. Its important to taper slower as the dose gets lower, some people need to really slow down, possibly making cuts between 1% - 5%.

 

Please read through: 

The slowness of slow tapers 

Also see our topic on micro-tapers Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

If I were you, I would hold at 2.0 for a while longer to see if this wave passes, but if its getting worse, you could updose slightly and then hold for a good long while. Perhaps consider slowing your taper when you resume.

[GiantsWSC]

Hi Petunia,

 

Thanks for doing that as I was unaware.

 

Yeah for the most part I've been pretty good about sticking with 10% drops and was completely unaware that I had dropped a bit more than 10% on my last drop. I guess maybe I felt what harm could a slightly bigger drop do, but since I'm feeling it now it might be a good idea to do a much slower drop at these lower levels. I always told myself this isn't a race and I have all the time to get off this drug. and I should stick with it.

 

Since I'm taking Paxil I won't be able to do micro tapers with the beads but I do have a bag of "0" empty gel capsules and if I recall a member (Brassmonkey) uses the powder remnants to fill the capsules and taper that way. That is an option for me as well.

 

I do have an extended vacation coming up in about 3 weeks and I really want to feel well by then so I may just updose and hold for an extended period based on your recommendation. 

 

Maybe taking a step back to move 2 steps forward will pay dividends.

 

Thanks Petunia

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Giants-- I found that when I hit the 2.0mg range things got mush trickier.  I really had to pay attention to getting the dose exact and added an extra couple of weeks to each hold.  The symptoms were very unpredictable and varied from mild to harsh.  It wasn't until I broke below 1.0mg that things started to smooth out again.  I've also dropped my taper percentage a bit to 8% to work with in the limitations of the scales.

 

A small updose might help things, but insomnia is one of the pain in the *** symptoms that everyone gets and no one seems to be able to do anything about.  Do remember that it will take at least four days for the updose to become steady state in the blood and during that time symptoms will have a mind of their own.  Once it's steady state things will start to settle out and the symptoms resolve themselves, but that can take several additional weeks.

 

Hope things settle out soon.

[GiantsWSC]

Hi Brass thanks for chiming in.

 

Yeah it seems at the lower ranges one needs to be a bit more careful and precise with the drops. I will definitely go slower once I stabilize and extend the holds longer than before. 

 

I went through a bad bout about 3 or 4 years back when I tapered without any good knowledge from 10mg to 5mg and that was horrible. I think I went back up to ten and it took a good week or two before I stabilized.

 

Thanks again for the advice!!

 

I'm gonna try to be more active regardless whether I'm feeling bad or not. Hopefully my experiences can help others as well

[GiantsWSC]

Was able to get about 5-6 hours of sleep last night. What a huge difference it makes. I'd like more but t this point I can't be greedy, I'll take what I can get. Hopefully the trend continues.

[Jlynn]

I can totally relate to the lack of sleeping. My taper has been going very well but I have hit a big bump about 40 days into my drop to 12 mg. I hope as I hold my brain will catch up and maybe this is it's way of saying stop and take a break. I also had to take an ambien last night to get some sleep after a few days of almost none. As much as I want to keep going I have come to realize I am on my brain's time, not mine. Great job so far! You have been rocking it and that is a huge inspiration!

[GiantsWSC]

Hi Jlynn

 

Yeah, the lack of sleep is probably one of the worst symptoms I'd have to rank loss of appetite a close second. Looks like you've been on Paxil for quite some time now and your last drop was a bit more than 10%. As suggested by member here, the rule of thumb is 10% but I've seen some go even slower, like maybe 8% drops. It really depends on how your body reacts. 

 

I had my most recent episode about a month into my drop and based off recommendations from the forum members I updosed about 4 or 5 days ago to my dose in November which is 2.5. I decided to skip 2.3 since I have a trip coming up and wanted to see if a slightly larger updose would have a quicker affect and as of today I'm actually feeling pretty darn good. Sleep has been much better and appetite is back. I'll prob hold a least 2 months before dropping and I'll prob drop at a slower rate to let my brain catch up. 

 

Maybe you can try going back up to maybe 13mg? Unless you want to wait it out a bit more to see if you stabilize. If it's affecting work you may consider doing it and hold for longer before dropping and when you drop maybe drop to maybe 12.5-12.4?

 

Thanks for the praise, we're all trying our best and we are inspirations to one another 

[Jlynn]

Thanks Giants,

 

You are right about my last drop being a little larger. I did it to help with ease of dosing thinking it was just over 10% so I would be okay. As always I am learning, learning, learning! Won't make that mistake again. Another really bad night for me but holding right now to see if I stabilize. I go back and forth on updosing or not and how it will affect me or if I will stabilize if I hold.

[GiantsWSC]

Yeah I'd probably just stick with a more mild drop instead of 10% each time. I know the lower you get you need to be more conservative. Good luck!!!

[Altostrata]

Hi, Giants. How are you doing now?

[GiantsWSC]

Hello Altostrata,

 

I'm doing ok for the most part. My biggest gripe would be the up and down sleep patterns I've had throughout the taper which makes me more agitated and moody. I'm thinking some of the problem with the sleep has to do with me using electronic items(tablets/phone) while in bed when I should be just sleeping or reading a book or something. 

 

I had a bad spell last march where I had to updose but I've been pretty good since that. I'm wondering if my relatively low symptom has to do with my recent changes in my diet or not. I've cut back my meat intake (most notably red meat) and have upped my fruit and vegetable intake much more. Reading books about being a vegetarian has helped enlighten me that food can also help heal so maybe all the extra nutrients I've been getting has helped.

 

I'm down to 1mg so I'm curious at what point do people make the decision to take the final dose? I know I have more tapering to do before I make that call but as far as a final drop, what would that amount be?

 

BTW I'm doing dry cuts with no compounding and a 1mg dose seems quite small. It somewhat makes me what to take that chance and go CT at this level but I'm kinda scared, probably not a good idea?

[snostorm]

following.  Hoping for great success.  I obsess over all paxil threads........

 

 

best regards

[brassmonkey]

Hi GiantsWSC-- Congratulations on getting down to 1mg. For me that was a breaking point and I started to see bigger improvements happen more quickly, hope it's the same for you.  As for when to jump off 1mg to too soon.  I've known several people who jumped there and they ended up reinstating, stabilizing and retapering. It all took more time than it would have if they had just continued to taper slowly. Personally I'm going to 0.008mg because it's the smallest dose I can "easily" measure with my scales.  Many people seem to be heading for 0.01mg as a jumping point.  What ever you choose, don't rush things.  It's been such a long trip there is no need to get impatient now and risk having trouble.  The next year should see a lot of good healing.

 

Brass

[GiantsWSC]

Thanks for the kind words snostorm! Wishing you the best on your journey as well!

 

Hi Brass, yeah thanks it's been quite a long road to finally get to the 1mg mark. I've beenpretty stable overall ever since my updose last March,there were some ups and downs but nothing so bad that I couldn't maintain my job and sanity.

 

I think I'm going to take your advice and continue, it's taken me this long already to get to this point and I really don't want to take a step backwards. As far as measuring doses, I read that you don't do compounding and have been successful with dry weighing your pills. Question I have is, will my Gemini 20 scale be sufficient for continued decreases? 0.01 mg is quite a small amount, I'm just worried that at doses that low will the scale be accurate enough where I'm not going up and down on dosage amounts.

 

Great to hear you are at such a low dose Brass, thats one heck of an acomplishment! I asume you have been relatively symptom free?

 

Thanks again!

[brassmonkey]

Hi Giants--  I've been using the Gemini-20 the entire time.  The lower doses get a little tricky to measure but they can be done.  I found that the scales had problems weighing 4mgpw (pill weight) or below, which would be 0.032mgai (active ingredient).  I was only able to divide my slide doses into 4 for a couple of drops when I went under 1mgai.  At first I went to three cuts per slide for several times then had to go to two cuts per slide for a couple and finally the last three or four have been one shots.  Also they have ended up being a lot larger than 10%.  I was able to maintain the 10% cuts down to about 0.5mgai, then it just got to fiddly and not worth the bother.  The amount of powder is so small it's hard to work with.  To get my current dose of 0.008 I have to weigh our 4mgpw of powder and then visually divide it into 4 parts of around 1mgpw each.  My previous cut I would weigh 8mgpw and visually divide it by 4 to get 0.016mgai.  So my last cut ended up being 50%. but by now the symptoms are pretty much a nonissue so it doesn't matter for me.

 

Something that will be helpful will be to determine the mgai per mgpw.    Dived the prescription strength of your tablets by the average pill weight to get it.  In my case it's 40/500 = 0.008.  So 1mg of powder gives me a dose of 0.008mg of medicine.  I'm just guessing , but your's should be 10/125 = 0.008 too.  Using that ratio you can figure a wide variety of smaller doses.

 

There were really big improvements is the symptoms when I crossed under 0.5mgai. They have steadily improved from there.  I won't say I'm symptom free, but pretty much so.  Now it's a matter of sorting through all those emotions I haven't felt in years and working out how to handle them IRL.  I also have to get my body sorted, rebuild my strength, get use to the damage a long life time of work has caused and the like.

 

Thanks for the kudos.  It really hasn't sunk in yet what an accomplishment it really is.  Once my taper is finally over and things have had a chance to settle in it will all make sense.

[Gridley]

Brass,

 

Microdose time is a ways off for me, but at what point did you stop the six-week schedule and start holding for longer?  I noticed that you held at .016 for some months.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Gridley-- lately the longer holds have been a matter of convenience. For the last year our schedule had been very broken up with all the foreign travel so instead of doing a drop just before leaving the country I'd wait until we got home and then do the drop.  Several of the trips were back to back so that meant longer holds too.  The 0.016 may have been a bit longer because I lost track of time after the last trip.  Also I've been making up four days doses at a time and not keeping the greatest records.  Tapering has really taken the back seat to life now.  I only went down to 0.008 to show that it can be done with the equipment I have, and will be holding there until this next trip is over.

 

The only planned extended hold I did was at 10mg.  I held an extra 6 weeks because t was a big milestone and I wanted to give things a little extra time to settle out.

[GiantsWSC]

Hi Giants--  I've been using the Gemini-20 the entire time.  The lower doses get a little tricky to measure but they can be done.  I found that the scales had problems weighing 4mgpw (pill weight) or below, which would be 0.032mgai (active ingredient).  I was only able to divide my slide doses into 4 for a couple of drops when I went under 1mgai.  At first I went to three cuts per slide for several times then had to go to two cuts per slide for a couple and finally the last three or four have been one shots.  Also they have ended up being a lot larger than 10%.  I was able to maintain the 10% cuts down to about 0.5mgai, then it just got to fiddly and not worth the bother.  The amount of powder is so small it's hard to work with.  To get my current dose of 0.008 I have to weigh our 4mgpw of powder and then visually divide it into 4 parts of around 1mgpw each.  My previous cut I would weigh 8mgpw and visually divide it by 4 to get 0.016mgai.  So my last cut ended up being 50%. but by now the symptoms are pretty much a nonissue so it doesn't matter for me.

 

Something that will be helpful will be to determine the mgai per mgpw.    Dived the prescription strength of your tablets by the average pill weight to get it.  In my case it's 40/500 = 0.008.  So 1mg of powder gives me a dose of 0.008mg of medicine.  I'm just guessing , but your's should be 10/125 = 0.008 too.  Using that ratio you can figure a wide variety of smaller doses.

 

There were really big improvements is the symptoms when I crossed under 0.5mgai. They have steadily improved from there.  I won't say I'm symptom free, but pretty much so.  Now it's a matter of sorting through all those emotions I haven't felt in years and working out how to handle them IRL.  I also have to get my body sorted, rebuild my strength, get use to the damage a long life time of work has caused and the like.

 

Thanks for the kudos.  It really hasn't sunk in yet what an accomplishment it really is.  Once my taper is finally over and things have had a chance to settle in it will all make sense.

 

Wow, I can't imagine all the work you've done making all these small changes in dosage!! But it has definitely paid off for you in the long run and you are another success story to give the rest of us hope!!! 

 

I will definitely not rush things and take it slow. We've worked to hard to get to this point!

[GiantsWSC]

Hello All,

 

I'd like to give an update and possibly some hope/help to those who are trying to wean off Paxil or any other similar drug. So Since December of last year my scale, for some reason, would not weigh my pills anymore so I was eyeballing my dosage sine then. The last couple months I was probably taking an amount equal to 1/10th the size of a grain of rice. I was scared to completely rid myself of the drug for fear of the withdrawl symptoms but finally took the plunge on Feb 10th.(after being on the drug close to 20 years) Since then I have not felt any withdrawls and am still crossing my fingers for at least the next couple weeks. I'd have to say it's a huge relief though, not having to rely on something to regulate how I feel day to day. I actually feel like I got out of jail and a free man. 

 

I hope this will give some hope to those out there that are trying to taper. There will be all kinds of bumps along the way but it is true what they say, it's part of the healing process. Although I have just recently come off, I don't expect myself to be free of withdrawls just yet. I won't be content until I'm a bout a month or two out but for now I feel good and hope it continues.

[ChessieCat]

Congratulations and thank you for coming back to update your situation.

 

I would advise caution about not overdoing things for quite a while.  BrassMonkey has been off for 9 months now I think and he has found that things haven't returned to completely normal yet but there have been improvements during that time.

[brassmonkey]

Hi GiantsWSC-- congratulations of making the jump to "0".  It's been a while since we first meant back at Prior Place.  I'm so glad that your slow taper has paid off by giving you such a feeling of freedom.  I think making that final jump to "0" is almost as scary as making the first reduction to start a taper. But both are so worth it.  The post "0" world is a whole new and less charted area.  I which I could say that it's all over now, but there is still a lot of healing to do.  Because of the slow taper you are in a good position for things to go quite smoothly.  In the nine months since I jumped there have been several waves I have had to contend with, but each was successively milder and the feeling on the other side was always better.  I'm not saying that it will happen to you, but don't be surprised if it does.

 

I'm so excited for you and your new lease on life.

 

Brass