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☼ Skyler, the benzo-Lyrica connection


Skyler

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Hi Skyler! I've been reading your journal and rooting for you all the way. It's along road you are on, but you'll make it to drug-free living eventually I'm sure.

 

I'd like to endorse your idea of tinnitus as a bellwether. In my case too, it is the symptom from hell, but it is also a great stop sign that warns me not to go into more distressing territory.

 

My own tinnitus is always "on" and has been since 1997, but it does vary in perceived intensity. It only became "unbearable" two months after I went onto Paxil. And my decision to start tapering was in response to that situation. But when I say "unbearable", of course I have managed to bear it so far, so "damn irritating" would be more accurate.

 

I also note that reducing the dose of either an SSRI or a benzo seems to send up the noise level. My explanation for this is that the dose reduction makes our CNS more sensitive and so the same amount of any irritation feels more irritating until the CNS calms down again. I like this explanation because it offers the hope of quieter times at the end of the rainbow.

 

I see that you are on 0.4mg of Diazepam. That's almost a homeopathic dose, so I'm sure it isn't going to hurt you and you won't have any trouble getting off it after the Lyrica and other stuff has been tapered. Take care and take it easy!

Started Paxil 10mg on 29 Nov. 2011. Began slow taper in Feb. 2012. Took final dose on 26 June 2013. 

 

Started Valium 2mg in Feb. 2012. Began reducing dosage in May 2012. Took final dose on 26 June 2013. Now fully recovered.... sort of!

 

 

"While I might trust the doctor to remove a splinter or lance a boil, I do not believe he has the knowledge to restore a brain." - Spock

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error... sorry! Picked up those duced HTML characters again, so just reposted below.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Trying to get the characters out here too...

 

Mods, please delete this post and the above?? Thanks..

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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"To any others who read my journal... Better to err on this side of safety. In reading thousands of posts, I never heard of anyone who suffered for holding too much/long, only for too little." Skyler

 

True. I am not tapering Benzos, but in my ssri tapers, when I was on hold for a good amount of time I was able to settle down.

 

Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'd like to endorse your idea of tinnitus as a bellwether. In my case too, it is the symptom from hell, but it is also a great stop sign that warns me not to go into more distressing territory.

 

It only became "unbearable" two months after I went onto Paxil. And my decision to start tapering was in response to that situation. But when I say "unbearable", of course I have managed to bear it so far, so "damn irritating" would be more accurate.

 

I also note that reducing the dose of either an SSRI or a benzo seems to send up the noise level. My explanation for this is that the dose reduction makes our CNS more sensitive and so the same amount of any irritation feels more irritating until the CNS calms down again. I like this explanation because it offers the hope of quieter times at the end of the rainbow.

 

I see that you are on 0.4mg of Diazepam. That's almost a homeopathic dose, so I'm sure it isn't going to hurt you and you won't have any trouble getting off it after the Lyrica and other stuff has been tapered. Take care and take it easy!

 

Hi Tim

 

Thank-you for your gracious response. I'm not surprised to read you are a translator.. a student of the spoken word. Your writing is elegant and speaks loudly of both your inner world and facile use of language.

 

Yes, tinnitus is indeed a stop sign. I'm at err, lessee, a little less than four months hold, and guess I'll need another 6 weeks before it stops entirely and add in a couple of weeks of total quiet. A total 6 months hold would probably be best, but I will give it a cautious go at the beginning of March which will then be a tad over 5 months. As much as I want to get off this !@#$%... the tinnitus got too wearing and I had to stop tapering. Also, a low level of symptoms is treacherous.. easy to rationalize.. well, maybe the sound did not get louder with the last cut.. maybe there was no change at all.. so I'll just take a very tiny amount off next time.. and so on. That's how I ended up where I was the last time.. better the noise is gone, then there is not so much room for self delusion.

 

Your conjecture as to what happens with the CNS seems pretty right on IMO. Our CNS sure does need time to quiet so neroplasticity does not get as entrenched.

 

You are correct, that .4 mgs of diazepam is close to a homeopathic dose, and of itself, not a big deal. The problem is, I don't trust the medical establishment here. I'm 65 years and at some point will probably end up in the hospital for something or a another. It's all too possible some well meaning ER person will give me a full clinical dose of a benzo, an attending doc will prescribe say, 2 mgs of diazepam to keep me going, or not bother to prescribe .4 mgs at all because it's such a low dose. Argh, the scenario of having to taper yet down again say from 2 mgs, which could well take me an additional year is a daunting. I'm pre emtively going to get myself off the last so this never happens. I need to wear a medic alert bracelet for an aspirin allergy, and when I'm well away from all that it will read allergy to benzos and aspirin.

 

While there is a threat anyone on psychotropics will have them reinstated during a stay in the hospital, issues with benzos are at the fore because of the high addictive potential, and the greater than even odds they will be prescribed at some point during an admission, so I was to be FREE of this crap.

 

Admittedly, I'm parking free floating anxiety on the bezno train.. In truth, I'm unlikely to be incapacitated in the nearer future,.. but given I can probably get free of the last .4 mgs of diazepam in 4 months, and this is not such a long time, I'm going to go for it. At the least I can get down to half that.. .2 mgs.

 

I hope you and your new found doggie friend make peace with your dozen or so cats. I love both. I did not give the suggestions to Septico that you and Jemima have because I thought he would already know of the resources given his vocation. The gasing of animals is a dreadful business.. I'm of the thought it involves less suffering than letting them roam free. I adopted my own kitty very close to her termination date at a local animal shelter.. I've taken in lame cats, and those who are sick. Unfortunately I can only have one at this time.. Three years ago Kalu, now aged 14 came to live with me and we are getting to be good friends.

 

Good to know another concerned animal person.. were we all the same, life would be very much better for our four paws.

 

Skyler

 

To any others who read my journal... Better to err on this side of safety. In reading thousands of posts, I never heard of anyone who suffered for holding too much/long, only for too little.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Sorry i haven't been keeping up with you. You always sound so in control I'm at loss for what to add except a huge THANK YOU for all you do for me and everyone on the board.

 

This is the 2nd reference this week to "free floating anxiety" (another thread). I had not heard that term before but definitely have it. Seems a precursor to dread and impending doom..?

 

Also...rabe..?

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Barb free floating anxiety is worse than anxiety due to medications or events. It can come on at anytime and there doesn't seem to be a reason.

 

I had it last night in my sleep. That never happens. I am a morning person with anxiety.

 

Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

Link to comment
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This is the 2nd reference this week to "free floating anxiety" (another thread). I had not heard that term before but definitely have it. Seems a precursor to dread and impending doom..? Also...rabe..?

"(psychology) Severe, generalized, persistent anxiety not specifically ascribed to a particular object or event and often a precursor of panic."

 

It's kind of like ubiquitous background noise.

 

LOL.. rabe is a vegetable! Curiously, I actually meant to reference Radiccio... which is a little easier to eat!!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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This is the 2nd reference this week to "free floating anxiety" (another thread). I had not heard that term before but definitely have it. Seems a precursor to dread and impending doom..? Also...rabe..?

"(psychology) Severe, generalized, persistent anxiety not specifically ascribed to a particular object or event and often a precursor of panic."

 

It's kind of like ubiquitous background noise.

 

LOL.. rabe is a vegetable! Curiously, I actually meant to reference Radiccio... which is a little easier to eat!!

 

Skyler, I just wanted to thank you for all your help with the medical terminology and issues. Your posts have been very enlightening and the forum is lucky to have you. Thank you for taking the time, and especially, thank you for all the info you posted in a benzo thread recently. That information was beyond helpful. It reminded me that this is not a race and there is no finish line, but if we make it one then we might hit some really rough bumps along the way. Thank you so much for being so helpful.

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I guess I'm not understanding "free floating anxiety" as it differs from generalized anxiety. I've experienced anxiety (free floating) with withdrawal only so your description caught my attention. Sorry to hijack your thread.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I guess I'm not understanding "free floating anxiety" as it differs from generalized anxiety. I've experienced anxiety (free floating) with withdrawal only so your description caught my attention. Sorry to hijack your thread.

No difference, the DSM kind of hijacked that term, so I was staying away from the use of GA. Also, this sort of anxiety is not necessarily pre-panic, just all over the place. It ebbs and flows depending on our 'inner clocks' as opposed to external events, and it is worsened by WD.

 

WD dependent free floating anxiety ... an amplification of anxiety we always had. We may not even have been aware of having this sort of anxiety, but then enter the WD dragon and off 'to the races' with it. No hijack worries. :)

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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"Yes, tinnitus is indeed a stop sign. I'm at err, lessee, a little less than four months hold, and guess I'll need another 6 weeks before it stops entirely and add in a couple of weeks of total quiet. A total 6 months hold would probably be best, but I will give it a cautious go at the beginning of March which will then be a tad over 5 months. As much as I want to get off this !@#$%... the tinnitus got too wearing and I had to stop tapering. Also, a low level of symptoms is treacherous.. easy to rationalize.. well, maybe the sound did not get louder with the last cut.. maybe there was no change at all.. so I'll just take a very tiny amount off next time.. and so on. That's how I ended up where I was the last time.. better the noise is gone, then there is not so much room for self delusion."

 

Exactly what I'm doing. There's some mild weirdness going on in my head and legs, which I'm taking as a sign that there's still some instability going on. I've heard people claim you CAN hold for too long, but I don't really believe that. I mean, we've been "holding" on these drugs for years and, apart from the usual side effects, nothing awful happened because of it.

2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Thank you for taking the time, and especially, thank you for all the info you posted in a benzo thread recently. That information was beyond helpful. It reminded me that this is not a race and there is no finish line, but if we make it one then we might hit some really rough bumps along the way. Thank you so much for being so helpful.

Glad you found the benzo information informative. The window for reinstating or updosing benzos is smaller than that for ADs, and there is a significant chance withdrawal symptoms will be aggravated by so doing. And tapering is potentially just as difficult from any psychotropic, AD, benzo, anti-psychotic or anti-convulsant, once sensitization has occurred.

 

Benzos pose an additional risk given their PRN, Pre-Op, or ER use. Where ADs are usually prescribed with the expectation someone will be staying on for a course of treatment, benzos are often given for short term use. Unfortunately, while dependence often occurs rapidly, it takes even less time to become readdicted. And though most people who use benzos do not abuse, benzos are 'seductive'. Habituation is fast; a dose effective for a week soon needs to be increased. Benzos are a slippery slope, even with the best intentions.

 

 

There's some mild weirdness going on in my head and legs, which I'm taking as a sign that there's still some instability going on. I've heard people claim you CAN hold for too long, but I don't really believe that. I mean, we've been "holding" on these drugs for years and, apart from the usual side effects, nothing awful happened because of it.

Weirdness, that is exactly the way I feel with my restless arms.. at the lowest level, it just plain feels weird.

 

JR, Right on.. yes, when we take regularly prescribed doses we are holding. I never thought of it like that.. you do indeed have a good head on your shoulders!!

 

The 'holding is harmful myth' may have its origins in the tolerance withdrawal concept prevalent in the benzo community. In reality, I've never seen tolerance withdrawal, during a benzo or AD taper, though side effects may emerge during reductions. The need to soldier on was used as a bludgeon because of the fear of becoming readdicted (this despite the fact most people taking benzos do NOT abuse them). Taperers were instilled with the need to move forward, regardless of the cost in WD symptoms.

 

One large benzo forum, TRAP, closed because they could not find enough moderator/staff. TRAP would not allow anyone on so much the tiniest dose of a benzo to so assist. Given the oft long years needed to taper, the pool of volunteers was pretty small and they ran out of helpers. Sad.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Just 'parking' a few nuts and bolts about benzo use here for ease of access:

 

Benzos are a lot closer to ADs in difficulty but worse in the sense that updosing or RI is trickier because of kindling. On the whole, ADs cause more side effects (are more activating), while on average, benzos pose a higher risk for dependence. The UK guidelines (at least they have some!) suggest prescribing benzos for no more than 2 weeks, with an option for a refill after 2 more weeks.. so the recommended course of treatment lasts no more than 4 weeks total.

 

Many folks take a couple of tablets a week, and often they can stay clear of the addictive properties, but the shorter the half life, the higher the chances of becoming dependent, and the use of for example, klonopin more than 2 times a week sets people up for problems. I contacted Recovery-Road on Facebook and they base their recommendations on the work of Reg Pert.. see below.

 

Updosing and reinstating

 

We have found that reinstating is most successful if it is carried out within 2 weeks after complete discontinuation of benzodiazepines. Generally reinstating is discouraged beyond 2 weeks after discontinuation as reinstating beyond this point in time may not always work and sometimes in rare cases may even make the individual feel worse. However, there may be circumstances where reinstating is required for example a person may have been cold turkeyed and is suffering extreme withdrawal effects such as psychosis or intolerable symptoms of anxiety or insomnia and may be acutely suicidal. However, due to the unpredictability of reinstating which may not always fully alleviate withdrawal symptoms the choice to reinstate beyond 2 weeks completely off of benzodiazepines must be made by the individual.

 

Updosing is sometimes an option for an individual who has tapered too quickly but has not discontinued benzodiazepines. If the tapering speed has only been a bit too quick, often holding for 4 weeks or so should alleviate withdrawal effects but if they are intolerable a small updose may be required. If the tapering has been much too quick, and major drops in dosage have occurred, then updosing can be done beyond 2 weeks since the last reduction with success, unlike reinstating after complete discontinuation of benzodiazepines which is unpredictable. For example a person may have dropped from say 30 mg of diazepam to say 10 mg and been on that dose for say a month or more without relief of symptoms. Such a person would likely benefit from an updose to say at least 25 mg of diazepam.

 

If a person is going to reinstate after complete discontinuation of benzodiazepines (and have been off of benzodiazepines for more than a couple of weeks and have made the decision to reinstate), it is better to introduce benzodiazepines gradually rather than picking a dose out of thin air and going straight on it. One reason for doing it this way is that a person can judge what their tolerance level is. So a person may want to start off taking 1 mg of diazepam and increasing the dose by 1 mg each day until they find relief of intolerable withdrawal symptoms. This approach is recommended by Dr Reg Peart for people when they have decided to reinstate."

 

There is no guidance for an updose more than 2 weeks out, but my experience is the longer the time frame, the less the chance WD symptoms will be ameliorated by an increase in dose. The difference between how an updose vs. RI is carried out is notable... an example updose of more than double the previous effective dose is given above, whereas for a RI small increments are suggested.

 

 

The first question is one that has been asked a number of times on the forum, and the second is pretty much a reiteration of the last post.

 

(15) Question: After I have withdrawn from benzos can I take them occasionally?

 

Answer: No you can't. Once your body has been addicted to a drug you can't re-expose it to the drug without consequences. Most of you readers will have heard of smokers who have quit for years or even decades and they have one cigarette and all their withdrawals and cravings come back and they are back on the smokes. This is true for other drugs of tolerance and dependence such as alcohol and unfortunately also benzos. This is a physiological problem not a psychological problem. Many people think that they can just take one and use their determination to keep it to occasional usage and don't understand that the body stays hypersensitive to the drug for years afterwards with persisting tolerance. A lot of people find that withdrawal effects return and they are worse after taking the occasional benzo than before they took it in this scenario. The brain stays tolerant to the drug and sensitised to the drug. So often taking the drug will typically cause a return of withdrawal effects after the benzo dose wears off and set your recovery back in time. Sometimes withdrawal effects can return very strongly after taking an occasional benzo.

 

(16) Question: I am in protracted withdrawal and I am considering reinstating, should I?

 

Answer: Reinstating or "going back on" after being off benzos for more than a couple of weeks is fairly unpredictable and is generally advised against unless the person is severely suicidal. The results from reinstating for protracted withdrawal are very unpredictable. It seems a lot of people find the pills don't work the way they did before they came off. Some people do get relief of withdrawal effects by reinstating for protracted withdrawal but often people either get no relief or only a few days of relief before feeling like they are back in withdrawal again even on a stable dose. Occasionally people actually feel worse, sometimes developing severe paradoxical reactions when reinstating for protracted withdrawal. When you come off the pills your benzodiazepine brain receptors switch states and there are all sorts of complex chemical and physiological changes involving gene transcription coding when you go into the post withdrawal phase and thus going back on pills has unpredictable effects in a lot of people. Some people from reinstating for protracted withdrawal do get relief but for many others they get little or no relief and for some they even feel worse and go paradoxical. In laymans terms you shouldn't generally interupt the delicate healing process of the central nervous system once it has begun. Another problem is to use the medical terminology, is the kindling effect, the kindling effect is where multiple withdrawals, putting the body into withdrawal and out of withdrawal multiple times can cause a hypersensitisation of the receptor systems and thus causing the nervous system to be hypersensitised which can lead people to not being able to stabalise on their benzos as well as they used to and as well as to feeling toxic on the drugs and as well as finding that each withdrawal is worse than the previous. In simple laymans terms it is often but not always harder the 2nd time around and even harder the 3rd time around at withdrawal, in people who have completely withdrawn and then went back on. This does not seem to be the case for people who have partially tapered down their dosage and then upped dose. It seems only the case for those who have completely withdrawn for more than a couple of weeks and then went back on multiple times.

 

 

The following message and response were posted to my intro thread.

 

Thank you for taking the time, and especially, thank you for all the info you posted in a benzo thread recently. That information was beyond helpful. It reminded me that this is not a race and there is no finish line, but if we make it one then we might hit some really rough bumps along the way. Thank you so much for being so helpful.

Glad you found the benzo information informative. The window for reinstating or updosing benzos is smaller than that for ADs, and there is a significant chance withdrawal symptoms will be aggravated by so doing. RI after a month off is highly questionable. And tapering is potentially just as difficult from any psychotropic, AD, benzo, anti-psychotic or anti-convulsant, once neuro sensitization has occurred.

 

Benzos pose an additional risk given their PRN, Pre-Op, or ER use. Where ADs are usually prescribed with the expectation someone will be staying on for a course of treatment, benzos are often given for short term use. Unfortunately, while dependence often occurs rapidly, it takes even less time to become readdicted. And though most people who use benzos do not abuse, benzos are 'seductive'. Habituation is fast; a dose effective for a week soon needs to be increased. Benzos are a slippery slope, even with the best intentions.

 

There's some mild weirdness going on in my head and legs, which I'm taking as a sign that there's still some instability going on. I've heard people claim you CAN hold for too long, but I don't really believe that. I mean, we've been "holding" on these drugs for years and, apart from the usual side effects, nothing awful happened because of it.

JR.. that's a great analogy.. holding for years. Right on.. yes, when we take regularly prescribed doses we are holding. I never thought of it like that.. you do indeed have a good head on your shoulders!!

 

The 'holding is harmful myth' may have its origins in the tolerance withdrawal concept prevalent in the benzo community. In reality, I've never seen tolerance withdrawal, during a benzo or AD taper, though side effects may emerge during reductions. The need to soldier on was used as a bludgeon because of the fear of becoming readdicted (this despite the fact most people taking benzos do NOT abuse them). Taperers were instilled with the need to move forward, regardless of the cost in WD symptoms.

 

One large benzo forum, TRAP, closed because they could not find enough moderator/staff. TRAP would not allow anyone on so much the tiniest dose of a benzo to so assist because of the fear of abuse. Given the oft long years needed to taper, the pool of volunteers was pretty small and they ran out of helpers. Sad.

 

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Alto, my ears are going CRAZY!!

 

I started mixing smaller batches of Lyrica and finished my first 600 mgs to 60 mls vial this morning. I'm now onto the next mixture, keeping it 3.25 days, no longer. As you recall, ahem, I was keeping the mixture for 5 days. Anyhow, the change set the bells and whistles in what I loosely refer to as ears off to a grand roar starting this afternoon. If the dose could have been as you suggested, deteriorating due to age and light, then mixing smaller batches might be the same as updosing because the newer solution would be more potent?? I can't think of any other reason the tinnitus should have gotten significantly worse. I'm thinking of taking a 10 % reduction, from 194 mgs to 175 mgs starting tonight. Does this seem like a reasonable course?

 

Thanks for reading!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hey Skyler

 

I hope this passes quickly for you....Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Alto, my ears are going CRAZY!!

 

I started mixing smaller batches of Lyrica and finished my first 600 mgs to 60 mls vial this morning. I'm now onto the next mixture, keeping it 3.25 days, no longer. As you recall, ahem, I was keeping the mixture for 5 days. Anyhow, the change set the bells and whistles in what I loosely refer to as ears off to a grand roar starting this afternoon. If the dose could have been as you suggested, deteriorating due to age and light, then mixing smaller batches might be the same as updosing because the newer solution would be more potent?? I can't think of any other reason the tinnitus should have gotten significantly worse. I'm thinking of taking a 10 % reduction, from 194 mgs to 175 mgs starting tonight. Does this seem like a reasonable course?

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Uh oh, it sounds like it could be an updose. I think the same thing happened to me when I went from weighing to counting beads. It's a nightmare isn't it, you change one thing and it knocks everything off. Was keeping the solution for 5 days causing trouble? If not, maybe you should just go back to that.

2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Uh oh, it sounds like it could be an updose. I think the same thing happened to me when I went from weighing to counting beads. It's a nightmare isn't it, you change one thing and it knocks everything off. Was keeping the solution for 5 days causing trouble? If not, maybe you should just go back to that.

Hi jr.. doing some better this AM, and reversed the cut. Not dropping yet. It seemed too early to know if the latest cacophony was set off by the change. You are right, the tinniest changes in dose can cause problems. It might seem one WD symptom in isolation would be a cake walk, but the one off variety, those that show up very close on to any change, the bell weathers, are NERVE RACKING!!! Sometimes it seems like I'm haunted. And I empathize all too well about RLS!!

 

I was having trouble with the 5 day solution... 6 doses from the end of the batch..(I do QID), the sounds got louder. Alto said this could be because the solution was deteriorating. So I'm going with a more tried and true 3 day batch. And this is for Requip OR Lyrica.. so there could have been an effect. I had been thinking it was because the diluent was not shaken properly so did not remain in suspension, would fall to the bottom of the vial.

 

Hugs to ya JR.. hope your day is good.

 

Nikki.. thanks for your greetings!! Always good to hear from ya, hope your budgeting gets better. Fraid I'm the last one to advise however!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I am soooo bumbed out.

 

Alto, I knew you were right.. I needed to start mixing smaller amounts of solution because the Lyrica could be deteriorating, this being the reason tinnitus would start to get worse on the 4th day. EXCEPT it's gotten even 'more worse' because of the change. How so a reasonable person asks.. wellll, it's the fatigue Watson, about the tiredness. You see, when I stop doing samo samo, and actually have to think about what I"m mixing, not so much. I used to mix 900 ccs of H2O with 3 caps of Lyrica, now 600 with 2 caps, sound simple?.. NUPE.. almost 2 days in, with 400 mls of H2O instead of 600. The time before, 400 mgs of H20 with requip instead of 200. The result? Utter mayhem.

 

Hisss, Ringgggg, hisss, ring hisss ring, tinnitus be gone. I WANT TO CRY! Posted Image I'll get there, but this is RIDICOLAS!!!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Skyler

I've gotten tininitis from w WD from pristiq 50 mg and now backing down using effexor 25 mg am/pm.

I didn't know this could be a part of it

 

good luck on your journey

My profile is Gardner off pristiq

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Skyler

I've gotten tininitis from w WD from pristiq 50 mg and now backing down using effexor 25 mg am/pm.

I didn't know this could be a part of it

 

good luck on your journey

My profile is Gardner off pristiq

 

Hi Gardner.. I've been following your posts. You are doing really well navigating the site! Sorry to hear you have tinnitus too.Thanks for dropping by, I"m kinda in the doldrums at present.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Thanks Skyler your post means a lot to me I appreciate it

If you're on Facebook and you need an a lift you can go to my p you can go to my page and get the kitty versus printer if you want I'll just message you my if you want I'll just message you my name

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Hi Skyler,

 

I completely understand the tinnitus. I hate it! I'm sorry it's plaguing you so horribly.

 

Mixing to make liquid can be a pain, too but you seem to do a pretty good job of it. I'm mixing remeron with water and once took some that had sat out of the fridge too long. I had the worst gut cramps for a few days. I'm very careful about that now.

 

I hope things get better for you soon.

 

Hugs,

 

Tezza

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Skyler I don't know much about the tinnitus. Years ago when we were kids and had an earache my mother would heat up ear oil med and put drops into our ears followed by cotton.

 

It really eased the pain. Just wondering if this might help. I have a few friends fro Europe who heat up a pinch of olive oil and do the same thing.

 

And I have even heard and know of a family who put garlic in a painful ear.

 

You never know, some of the old remedies are helpful.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Skyler I don't know much about the tinnitus. Years ago when we were kids and had an earache my mother would heat up ear oil med and put drops into our ears followed by cotton.

 

It really eased the pain. Just wondering if this might help. I have a few friends fro Europe who heat up a pinch of olive oil and do the same thing.

 

And I have even heard and know of a family who put garlic in a painful ear.

 

You never know, some of the old remedies are helpful.

Hi Nikki... good to hear from you. :) I wish there was something I could do.. with the exception of stopping my dumb mistakes!!!

 

The problem is neurological, so it's not in the canal or middle ear. To be honest, I've wondered just how the noise even knows to come from my ears. At the moment it's has quieted, as opposed to a roar but still, GRRR. I'm waiting for it to stop.. been holding as in forever. So tapering at the beginning of next month is pretty much set in stone (unless the noise does in fact stop completely.. then I'd give it a couple of weeks).

 

Tezza, thanks for your words of support.

 

Gardner, I don't use Facebook for more than posting news links, something that will surprise noone here. I'll respond further in a PM.

 

The noise bit befuddles the mind.Posted Image

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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That sounds very difficult, coping with constant tinnitus. I don't know if you've gotten accustomed to it at all .... It seems to me that it really could not be adapted to, frankly.

 

I tend to drive myself crazy with finding causes for good windows. A chronic symptom will improve, sometimes practically disappear, for a stretch only to then reappear a short time later. After the problem returns, I expend a lot of mental energy trying to ascertain just what I'd done or not done differently and how it went away, how it came back and how I can get it to go away again. Causative agents are so tough to pin down, I usually do not find an answer. I don't know if you are the same way?

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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That sounds very difficult, coping with constant tinnitus. I don't know if you've gotten accustomed to it at all .... It seems to me that it really could not be adapted to, frankly.

You are right. Not so much!

 

I tend to drive myself crazy with finding causes for good windows. A chronic symptom will improve, sometimes practically disappear, for a stretch only to then reappear a short time later. After the problem returns, I expend a lot of mental energy trying to ascertain just what I'd done or not done differently and how it went away, how it came back and how I can get it to go away again. Causative agents are so tough to pin down, I usually do not find an answer. I don't know if you are the same way?

I think there is a seductive aspect. When we identify a cause, we fuel our conviction that just maybe we can control withdrawal. Unfortunately this contributes to our obsession, and the cycle is strengthened.

 

Edited 10:20

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I think there is a seductive aspect. When we identify the cause, we fuel our conviction that just maybe we can control withdrawal. Unfortunately this contributes to our obsession, so the cycle is further perpetuated.

 

Yea. I think this is true for me. Sometimes a bad reaction provides a learning experience and then I stay away from the thing I reacted to. But other times there is no obvious 'guilty party' to avoid and the searching becomes obsessive and yields nothing. Mostly the solutions are not simple, sadly.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Yea. I think this is true for me. Sometimes a bad reaction provides a learning experience and then I stay away from the thing I reacted to. But other times there is no obvious 'guilty party' to avoid and the searching becomes obsessive and yields nothing. Mostly the solutions are not simple, sadly.

Yup, the caveat being: if we can identify the trigger, we should be able to control the symptoms. This makes us guilty if we don't succeed. So we end up blaming ourselves when we are the victims.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I'm sorry, Skyler, I don't know why the burst in tinnitus. Maybe time for a hold?

 

Please share the benzo info in the benzo forum, too, with its source.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I thought the tinntinus was caused from the WD?

I got it another time when doing IV INFUSION for gabamycin I think it's spelled.

 

Have a good day.

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I'm sorry, Skyler, I don't know why the burst in tinnitus. Maybe time for a hold?

 

Please share the benzo info in the benzo forum, too, with its source.

Argh... I've been holding now for 4.5 months! Overall, the tinnitus is starting to simmer down, but every time it gets to the point of extinguishing, there is an upswing!! A neuro thingy seems to be at work, so when the end is in sight... the noise waves get worse? Today is the best in months (wowsers, I'll take that!), preceded by yesterday which was utterly miserable. Go figure. It sure works on the nerves, and plays head games.

 

I'll work on the links for the benzo section, will have the links ready soon. Thanks for being interested.

 

I thought the tinntinus was caused from the WD?

I got it another time when doing IV INFUSION for gabamycin I think it's spelled.

It is caused by WD, but aggravated by situational factors.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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We may be getting the worst of the blizzard where I am so if'n I'm not around for a bit, it's because we lost power. I'm packing an overnight bag for my Dad's, but will be back here tomorrow.. crossing my fingers I still have 'juice'. The predict is for 2ft. + snow, 50 mph winds to blow all night night. Groan...

 

See y'all soon, I hope!!! Posted Image

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Well, as any who saw me post yesterday know, we in SE MA survived the blizzard of 2013! Not without a power loss however, 2 days with no heat, UGH. Neighbors rescued my 90 yrs Dad, (and me by association :)), and took us to their MIL for the second night. The temperature went down to 8 F so we were very thankful. We also have an angelic neighbor with a very large home tractor plow. He did our driveway before even the plow came. Good stories all around.

 

Our winter wonderland... the beauty of which I appreciate now we have power again! The trees in the backyard are bowed just like the one in the photo. They do look dramatic with their crowns frozen fast to the ground by snow.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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