Hibari

Hibari: Tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamicatal

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Hibari my friend

Just keep holding. You are doing great so any thought of reinstating should be simply caused due to non clear thinking from WD. Another friend of mine who jumped in January had a very difficult time recently for like one week with very bad sleep as well as anxiety due to that and she survived and doing well now. She almost considered restarting the drug again but i was really pushing her not to do that and right now the wave passed and she is doing good again.

Keep on fighting my friend. You have passed the finish line just try not to turn your head backwards. You will be good and 2017 will be the year of your freedom... :-)

All the best

Santino

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On 6/6/2017 at 4:32 AM, Santino said:

Hibari my friend

Just keep holding. You are doing great so any thought of reinstating should be simply caused due to non clear thinking from WD. Another friend of mine who jumped in January had a very difficult time recently for like one week with very bad sleep as well as anxiety due to that and she survived and doing well now. She almost considered restarting the drug again but i was really pushing her not to do that and right now the wave passed and she is doing good again.

Keep on fighting my friend. You have passed the finish line just try not to turn your head backwards. You will be good and 2017 will be the year of your freedom... :-)

All the best

Santino

Thank you so much Santino.  I appreciate you telling me about your friend and her experience. 

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You are doing really well Hibari. 

It is inspirational to me. I know that it is possible to be free from Mitrazapine. 

I am a bit worried about WDS after I get off.  Is the WDS as terrible as when you are taking Mitrazapine?  Or is it less intense?  Right now I get mild WDS. 

But will this intensify once fully off?

I know that everyone is different and it is hard to know . What has been your experience?  Take care,  Hopefull. :)

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Hi Hopeful,

 

It is possible to get free from Mirtazapine.   I will try to answer your question.  Now that I am off Remeron, I feel less drugged and more present.  To be honest, I have been hit with some trauma in the past 4 weeks and my nervous system is shaky.  What I mean by that is I feel a low grade depression but I am functional.   When I was making cuts during my withdrawal, I was much more depressed and sick at different points.   This feels different.

 

What I am realizing is that even though I am off Remeron, my brain is not healed yet.  Plus I have a second medication in the mix. 

 

If you have mild wd, I can't imagine it would get worse once you are off because I see you are doing a nice slow taper.   I think it's important to realize, at least for me, that there is a post wd healing that has to happen, which can take us through ups and downs.  But it doesn't mean anything is wrong, it just is what it is.   It's hard for me to accept that because of my low mood, but I do think it's true. 

 

Take care and step by step. 

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Thank you Hibari for your answers. 

There is definitely healing that needs to take place after stopping ADS. 

It is good to know that you feel more present.  I hope that the low moods become less for you, as you continue to heal.

I still have a while to go,  but getting there slow and steady. 

Acceptance is hard,  but as you continue to heal and start to feel better,  I think that acceptance becomes less of an issue. 

Just remember that it is WDS talking and not you. 

Take care,  Hopefull. :)

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I feel caught in a medication dilemma.    I am 10 weeks of Remeron and while I know I am still healing, I feel that I can function while handling a low level mood. 

 

Since then I have made two 5% cuts in the Lamictal I am taking.  The reason I have is that when I take it at night the way I usually do, I feel lousy.  I then wake up with a medication hangover and probably continued Remeron wd.   I have hot flashes, sweating, head pressure and on sadness. 

 

I don't want to push my taper but I also want to respect what my body is telling me.  Sometimes it feels worse taking the med then going through the wd.

I have shared before that I feel my body fighting the drug. 

 

I guess my question is, do other people feel this?  The real feeling of the medication making you ill and if so, how do you handle it?

 

I am working and walking around but want to cry all the time.  I let myself but also feel it back the next day. 

 

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. 

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Also forgot to report for those of you who worry about the medication weight gain, I am now down 18lbs without really trying.  I do watch my food (not perfectly) and will probably have to add in exercise later on but the medication weight has been really dropping. 

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2 hours ago, Hibari said:

I guess my question is, do other people feel this?  The real feeling of the medication making you ill and if so, how do you handle it?

 

I am not 100% sure, but I do feel like the tiny bit of lexapro that I take (as well as the small amnt of lamictal) are causing symptoms for me.

I will know if I have taken a tiny bit less of the lexapro (and I mean TINY- like 0.05mgs, barely a drop!) when my dose changes, either up or down, I get a predictable "lexapro yawn" approx 2 hrs after taking it.

Sometimes the yawn comes back later in the day when I am actually tired or stressed, but it's not the yawn of a tired person. It's repeated, over and over, in a way that it's impossible to stop. I have NEVER yawned like that when I was just tired.

this was a symptom I had while on the drug that I hated, and that others commented on all the time ("what, are we boring you?" they'd ask, when I couldn't suppress the yawn) There are reports of ppl breaking their jaw from the lexapro yawn, that's how strong and persistent this side effect can be.

 

I don't know how to handle the adverse effects of the medication. I have tried to speed up my taper but that has brought on much worse symptoms.

 

so my guess is that you need to weigh what is worse for you, the effects of the drug or the WD symptoms.

Of course we all know that's not an easy task, since it can be impossible to tease them apart- AND because WD symptoms can be so blasted unpredictable.

You could be fine after a cut, for a week or two or more, and then have it hit you.

 

it's a tough call, no matter how you look at it.

I wish I had an answer for you.

 

Me, I'm just trying to listen to my body, and trying very hard not to rush things.

that said, I will probably go off the lamictal faster than I am going with the lexapro. I only added on the lamictal to help me get off the lexapro and have not gone over 25mgs (I now take about 12 mgs, I just cut the little shield shaped tablets in half and sometimes the halves are not equal, sometimes a pc breaks off, and this has not seemed to make any difference in how I feel.

I reduce the dose based on how I feel, if I have a headache or more trouble sleeping, I reduce the dose, that is why I am at half a pill instead of the full one.
I am using the rough guidelines that one of Alto's former doctors gave her, for how to decide when to reduce the dose of lamictal.

 

by the way, congratulations on getting off the remeron and also on the weight loss.

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Hello Hibari,

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  You mentioned that you feel bad when dosing the Lam.  Are you sure that it is not WD from the Rem?  

 

If you feel that  it is the Lam, then you have no choice but to taper it.  I was on 2.4 Rem for a while but recently dropped it completely due to serotonin syndrome (with trazodone), so you can imagine the state I'm in.  But I notice that when I wake up in the morning, I have a hangover too that last almost all day.  I did not have this before I dc'd Rem, so I'm sure it's WD.  My point is, you may still be in WD from Rem and tapering Lam may be too much at this moment.  Just a thought ...

 

Whatever your decision, I wish you well.

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Posted (edited)

 

7 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

I am not 100% sure, but I do feel like the tiny bit of lexapro that I take (as well as the small amnt of lamictal) are causing symptoms for me.

I will know if I have taken a tiny bit less of the lexapro (and I mean TINY- like 0.05mgs, barely a drop!) when my dose changes, either up or down, I get a predictable "lexapro yawn" approx 2 hrs after taking it.

Sometimes the yawn comes back later in the day when I am actually tired or stressed, but it's not the yawn of a tired person. It's repeated, over and over, in a way that it's impossible to stop. I have NEVER yawned like that when I was just tired.

this was a symptom I had while on the drug that I hated, and that others commented on all the time ("what, are we boring you?" they'd ask, when I couldn't suppress the yawn) There are reports of ppl breaking their jaw from the lexapro yawn, that's how strong and persistent this side effect can be.

 

I don't know how to handle the adverse effects of the medication. I have tried to speed up my taper but that has brought on much worse symptoms.

 

so my guess is that you need to weigh what is worse for you, the effects of the drug or the WD symptoms.

Of course we all know that's not an easy task, since it can be impossible to tease them apart- AND because WD symptoms can be so blasted unpredictable.

You could be fine after a cut, for a week or two or more, and then have it hit you.

 

it's a tough call, no matter how you look at it.

I wish I had an answer for you.

 

Me, I'm just trying to listen to my body, and trying very hard not to rush things.

that said, I will probably go off the lamictal faster than I am going with the lexapro. I only added on the lamictal to help me get off the lexapro and have not gone over 25mgs (I now take about 12 mgs, I just cut the little shield shaped tablets in half and sometimes the halves are not equal, sometimes a pc breaks off, and this has not seemed to make any difference in how I feel.

I reduce the dose based on how I feel, if I have a headache or more trouble sleeping, I reduce the dose, that is why I am at half a pill instead of the full one.
I am using the rough guidelines that one of Alto's former doctors gave her, for how to decide when to reduce the dose of lamictal.

 

by the way, congratulations on getting off the remeron and also on the weight loss.

Thanks for your response.  I had not heard of the lexapro yawn and I'm sorry you have had that physical response.  

 

I have had the same breaking off pieces of my 25mgs tablet and I get what you mean about the uneven pieces.   I wasn't sure if it affected me but I recently switched to the 5mgs dispersable tablets I have to keep it more consistent, though I'm breaking one of them in half as well.  I also don't know if these tablets have less medication in them or not and if so, I have given myself an unexpected cut.  Do you have the link to the guideline that Alto's doctor gave her?  Would love to take a look at that.

 

I too am listening to my body but am willing to admit that I may be rushing things. 

10 weeks out from the Remeron is not a long time off the drug and in reality I probably need to stabilize more. It's really hard for me to imagine holding for 6 months but I don't need to think that far ahead. 

Edited by scallywag
delete duplicate quoted post

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2 hours ago, Survivor1 said:

Hello Hibari,

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  You mentioned that you feel bad when dosing the Lam.  Are you sure that it is not WD from the Rem?  

 

If you feel that  it is the Lam, then you have no choice but to taper it.  I was on 2.4 Rem for a while but recently dropped it completely due to serotonin syndrome (with trazodone), so you can imagine the state I'm in.  But I notice that when I wake up in the morning, I have a hangover too that last almost all day.  I did not have this before I dc'd Rem, so I'm sure it's WD.  My point is, you may still be in WD from Rem and tapering Lam may be too much at this moment.  Just a thought ...

 

Whatever your decision, I wish you well.

Thanks for your thoughts.   I am wishing you well from your drop off that dose of Remeron and you have my deepest empathy for what you are going through.

I always had a morning hangover on Remeron, that dazed foggy feeling that was worse when I first started and then bad again as I came down.  I do think I am still in Remeron wd and sigh, have to really tune into what's happening with this dose of Lamictal. 

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33 minutes ago, Hibari said:

Do you have the link to the guideline that Alto's doctor gave her?  Would love to take a look at that.

it's in the above thread

 

glad you asked for it, I'd forgotten the particulars

 

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2 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

it's in the above thread

 

glad you asked for it, I'd forgotten the particulars

 

Thank you. 

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you're welcome

let me/us know how it goes, ok?

 

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6 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

you're welcome

let me/us know how it goes, ok?

 

I will.  I went back up to 17.50 last night because I just was too strained physically and mentally from the 5% drop.  Even though I woke up in a stupor, I did not feel as much despair.  I will hold for another 2 weeks and try again depending on my body. 

I also think I will try a liquid compound to give me more control over the cuts.  I have a hard time figuring that out but will read up on it again. 

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I could use some reassurance and perspective.

 

I am now in my 11 week off of Remeron.  Since I stopped, my main symptoms have been morning headaches, some nausea, foggy brain and intense sweating.  The headache, nausea usually start to lift once I have a cup of coffee or sometimes later in the afternoon.  However, I haven't felt mentally crisp in 3 years. 

 

I am mainly confused about the sweating since I am also post menopausal and have had a very difficult menopause.  I am on an estrogen patch and biodidencical progesterone cream.

 

When I say sweating, I mean every night probably starting at 3AM and going into the morning.  Sometimes it wakes me up but mainly I wake up sweating with hot flashes.  During the day I I have heat surges and flashes. 

 

Is this intense sweating  a continued symptom of Remeron wd?   I've asked about sweating before but I thought it was going to be a shorter period of time.

I still am on Lamictal and did on 5% drop but can't do anymore right now.

 

Hibari

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hibari said:

I am mainly confused about the sweating since I am also post menopausal and have had a very difficult menopause.  I am on an estrogen patch and biodidencical progesterone cream.

 

When I say sweating, I mean every night probably starting at 3AM and going into the morning.  Sometimes it wakes me up but mainly I wake up sweating with hot flashes.  During the day I I have heat surges and flashes. 

 

Is this intense sweating  a continued symptom of Remeron wd?   I've asked about sweating before but I thought it was going to be a shorter period of time.

I still am on Lamictal and did on 5% drop but can't do anymore right now.

 

 

hi

I don't know if I'll be able to help much as I'm tapering off of a different drug (but am on lamictal as well, low dose)

I am post menopausal as well, and my menopause was rocky.

 

I have terrible night sweats and hot flashes. I had them in the past and thought it was from menopause, but as I look back over my history of trying to get off the lexapro, and going up and down in the doses, It appears that most of the night sweats were, in fact, from drug withdrawal.

I tried the patch but it didn't help at all. The dr was surprised that there was no relief with it. I was nervous about continuing with it due to side effects, so I stopped using it.

 

I have the night sweats now that usually soon after I lay down. I have heat surges and hot flashed during the day, often after I eat or if I get emotional.

I am not off lexapro but I imagine that the sweating may go on for awhile even after I'm completely off it.

 

did you ever get any relief from the patch?

 

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27 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

 

hi

I don't know if I'll be able to help much as I'm tapering off of a different drug (but am on lamictal as well, low dose)

I am post menopausal as well, and my menopause was rocky.

 

I have terrible night sweats and hot flashes. I had them in the past and thought it was from menopause, but as I look back over my history of trying to get off the lexapro, and going up and down in the doses, It appears that most of the night sweats were, in fact, from drug withdrawal.

I tried the patch but it didn't help at all. The dr was surprised that there was no relief with it. I was nervous about continuing with it due to side effects, so I stopped using it.

 

I have the night sweats now that usually soon after I lay down. I have heat surges and hot flashed during the day, often after I eat or if I get emotional.

I am not off lexapro but I imagine that the sweating may go on for awhile even after I'm completely off it.

 

did you ever get any relief from the patch?

 

Thanks for your response.  

 

It is a relief, in an odd way, to know that you have experienced night sweats and hot flashes.  It made me think back. 

The patch gave me some relief initially and then I have just kept it at the low dose since the medication and then wd journey has been in the forefront.

 

At times I have let the patch run down longer than I should but don't know what it did.   I definitely will feel a low mood, nausea, hot flash and then sweats.  This happened during my intial menopause and was also related to adrenals-an issue I am working on

 

I'm now thinking it's wd.  While I was on the upper doses of Remeron, I did not have sweats and only an occasional hot flash.  I too want off the hormones but will wait to stabilize and come off of my second drug.  

 

I did some research and have seen that sweating is a key sign of wd.   There is not o

 

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So a bit up and down.   I am at exactly 3 months since I stopped taking Remeron and the past few days have felt weepy and that weird inner physical tension.  

It's always disappointing when it returns after having two pretty good days.

 

Overall my morning foggy brain, nausea, headache sick feeling is less and the day usually gets better for me.  I just hate this feeling of sadness and feeling down that comes out of the blue. 

 

I know I am done with Remeron, and that I'm not in a deep state of wd but it's just sucks to not feel what I have read in the success stories about people feeling good.  I also know it's early in the post wd stage so I'm trying to be easy with myself.

 

Lamictal and hormone replacement has been on my mind too.  I change my patch on Thursday and am thinking it has an effect on the efficacy of the medication.  I've read it both ways.  That hormone replacement therapy can effect Lamical and Lamictal can effect hormones.  Maybe that's in the picture too.

 

Will try and keep distracted today. 

 

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So I just did some research again on hormones replacement therapy and Lamictal.

 

Again, this is just general research to understand why I feel in more acute withdrawal today after changing my estradial patch. 

 

yes, estrogen does cause Lamictal to metabolize faster and Lamctal levels can be reduced 30%-60%.  Here is one article: 

https://pro.psychcentral.com/this-months-expert-victoria-hendrick-m-d-on-drug-interactions-and-drug-side-effects-specific-to-women/002564.html

 

Here is the medication interaction checker:

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1019-3912,1430-848

 

When I start tapering again, I am going to only switch my patch in the morning and also switch when I apply my progesterone creme from night to morning.  At least that will give me about 8 hours to have the Lamictal in my system. 

 

Anyone else have this experience or looked at hormone replacement and Lamictal?

 

 

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I am feeling vulnerable but functional.  Struggling with the morning and then my reaction to that struggle.   A little over 3 months off my first med so maybe it's too soon for a huge upswing in mental health.  

 

I just wish I felt more spark and motivation.  I don't, today I feel exhausted. 

 

Looking to come out of this low level gray feeling, which makes me want to cry.  I feel worried that I have lost my health and won't regain it. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hibari said:

I am feeling vulnerable but functional.  Struggling with the morning and then my reaction to that struggle.   A little over 3 months off my first med so maybe it's too soon for a huge upswing in mental health.  

 

I just wish I felt more spark and motivation.  I don't, today I feel exhausted. 

 

Looking to come out of this low level gray feeling, which makes me want to cry.  I feel worried that I have lost my health and won't regain it. 

 

 

sorry you are not feeling very strong just yet but it will come.

it's normal to worry about your health but you will regain it, it just takes a lot longer than any of us had ever anticipated

 

try to focus on the things that are going well, the things that have improved. That will remind you that your body/brain WANTS to heal, it's always trying to be as healthy as it can, and this should help reassure you that you are going to get better.

 

it's the direction you've been going in all along, even though there have been detours and some back tracking along the way

 

((((((hugs))))))

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Just now, Happy2Heal said:

 

sorry you are not feeling very strong just yet but it will come.

it's normal to worry about your health but you will regain it, it just takes a lot longer than any of us had ever anticipated

 

try to focus on the things that are going well, the things that have improved. That will remind you that your body/brain WANTS to heal, it's always trying to be as healthy as it can, and this should help reassure you that you are going to get better.

 

it's the direction you've been going in all along, even though there have been detours and some back tracking along the way

 

((((((hugs))))))

Thanks so much for your response.   I imagine that 3 months is nothing in the long slow healing process.

 

Yes, I do have to remember that I used to be drenched in sweat all night long when I first came off and that my mornings were much worse.  There has been a gradual change and even though I feel lethargy, I am able to work.  I do get better as the day goes on-just would like to wake up more with the feeling of, oh good, I'm okay as opposed to oh, here it is again. 

 

More body treatments coming up next week so I'm hoping that will shift me again.

 

May I ask what you take the glycine for and how has it helped?

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21 minutes ago, Hibari said:

May I ask what you take the glycine for and how has it helped?

 

 

I take the glycine for anxiety and to help with sleep. I has not helped me to sleep any longer, but I do seem to sleep a lot deeper when I get sleep.

I take 1 or 2 grams at night and 1 or 2 grams in the morning (never more than 3 grams per day) If I feel like I might have a rough night, I take 2 at night, if my night seems ok, I just take 1

 

on the nights when I take 1, if I am anxious the next morning, I take 2. otherwise just one, or sometimes none in the morning if I'm feeling ok.

 

I have anxiety every morning - that same oh here it is again, feeling!! but it sometimes goes away very quickly... if it lingers for an hour or more, I will take the glycine.

 

so far it's been the most helpful supplement that I've used.

 

I tried a lot of different things but this is the one that worked for me.  My feeling is that because glycine is naturally found in meat and eggs etc, and because I don't eat much of those foods,  it just might be the thing my body is missing or low on. I don't really know, though.

 

they say most ppl get around 2 grams a day from food, but that's for omnivores, not vegetarians I think. You can get glycine from legumes too, though.

 

 

 

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A little over 13 weeks since I stopped taking Remeron and it's getting better.  Though my mornings still have some nausea, fogginess and headaches, they are much less than they were and shift within 20 minutes.  It used to take a few hours and slowly has gotten better.  I still need coffee to wake up but have switched to green tea later in the day.  Slow changes as I can handle them. 

 

Part of my healing has been to acknowledge things getting better even incrementally.  The whole process has been so traumatic that for awhile I just keep wanting to be healed already.  This kept me from noticing that I was slowly getting better.  I'm okay with not having the capacity to notice right away, my fear was and can be really high around all of this.

 

Tried a supplement for morning anxiety called enerphos but it was too intense for me-gave me a headache and I felt spacey.  For now, I am going to stick with L-Theanine, which I have taken throughout most of my wd and works for me.  That, acupuncture and now therapy will be my supports for the rest of this journey. 

 

 

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