Juventus17 Some help with Lexapro.

[Juventus17]

I'm a 22 year old male. I was originally admitted into a psychiatric ward and put on paxil when I was 14 and diagnosed with panic disorder. I was seeing a therapist every week and my anxiety would be pretty stable most of the year with a few bouts of extreme anxiety here and there.

 

I didn't like the idea of being on an antidepressant so I tapered off my senior year of high school in 2010 when I was 17. I was off of antidepressants and felt great for 9 months until I started taking accutane. I had horrible side effects on accutane and had a complete anxious breakdown during the holidays in 2010.

 

They put me back on paxil after visiting the psych er. I eventually got back to normal but I still would get terrible spells of anxiety which lasted weeks. When I get anxiety, it gets worse and worse. I start to break down, not want to do anything, completely lose my appetite, etc. I cry for no reason. I just feel completely helpless.

 

After being admitted again 2 years ago, they switched me from paxil to lexapro. At this time, I lost about 25 lbs from the intense anxiety which led me to be very down. (Some would say depressed) I personally didn't want to be on any antidepressant but the doctors weren't having it.

 

By the way I forgot to mention, I was given klonopin a few times throughout the last 4 years temporarily which I only took a few times and stopped due to the absolute paranoia of developing a tolerance or addiction (although I don't have an addictive personality. I actually hate pills) I was always able to easily get off the klonopin because I would never take it longer than a few weeks.

 

I've decided I want to get off lexapro and any antidepressant for too I feel like they barely help, if even that. I don't like the sexual side effects either especially since I'm 22. In January I went from 20mg of lexapro to 10mg with just about no problems or withdrawals.

 

Then about a week ago I went down from 10 to 5mg. Then 3 days later I started feeling weird. Then it just got worse until I finally woke up feeling extremely anxious and so fearful of hitting rock bottom again. Should I continue with the 5mg or go back to 10mg? Can I take anything to help me through the withdrawal like the klonopin I have saved for emergencies? I was prescribed 45 in September to take as needed up to 3 times a day. Its May and I still have about 30 pills left? Please any help?!!

Edited May 15, 2015 by Altostrata
added paragraph breaks

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Juventus17.

 

Accutane is well-known for causing adverse effects that might be mistaken for psychiatric symptoms.

 

Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more.

 

See What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

[Juventus17]

Thank you

How come I had no problem going from 20 to 10?

[Altostrata]

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

[Juventus17]

Anybody? I don't get why I had no problem with my first 50% decrease of 20 to 10mg but am now having trouble with my 10 to 5 mg drop. Is it in my head? I'm having terrible anxiety and have missed work because of it.

[nz11]

Hi Juventus.

This is a good question. Unless you know a little about maths its a bit hard to explain.

Did you look at the links Alto gave you?

 

To try to put this into a crude analogy.....

you are in a running race buts its an obstacle course over 1 mile. However the race organiser does not want you to finish and leave the field as a result he has decided for reasons known only to himself to put few obstacles in the first half of the course and has loaded the obstacles into the second half of the race, with an increase in weighting as you approach the finish line. As a result you cannot travel the second half of the race at the same speed, the further you go the slower you must go...and the more carefully you must go.

Also the raceorganiser is a nasty piece of work he placed hidden detachable fishhooks in the 2 or 3 obstacles in the first half of the course you may not be aware you have them on you until further down the track.

 

Mathematically speaking tapering must follow a decreasing geometric progression not a decreasing arithmetic progression...dem the rules!

 

I agree go back to the halfway point get your breath back and then proceed carefully and slowly ..using the rules given to you formulated by others who have managed to leave the field ! Note: there are no short cuts and there is no timekeeper. 

[Altostrata]

You were taking an over-saturation of the drug. When you reduced it by half, there was still enough for your nervous system not to notice. When you reduced it further, your nervous system could feel it.

 

Please read the links we give you.

[Juventus17]

Ok I started 5 a week ago. Should I go back up to 10 or continue the 5 and endure the anxiety and if the anxiety gets really bad I'll take a klonopin? I really don't want to be on them anymore. How do you feel about the Prozac method?

[Petunia]

Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more.

[Juventus17]

Even though its been a week? That won't cause any problems? I'm sorry I'm being so paranoid.

[Juventus17]

I'm a 22 year old male. I was originally admitted into a psychiatric ward and put on paxil when I was 14 and diagnosed with panic disorder. I was seeing a therapist every week and my anxiety would be pretty stable most of the year with a few bouts of extreme anxiety here and there.

 

I didn't like the idea of being on an antidepressant so I tapered off my senior year of high school in 2010 when I was 17. I was off of antidepressants and felt great for 9 months until I started taking accutane. I had horrible side effects on accutane and had a complete anxious breakdown during the holidays in 2010.

 

They put me back on paxil after visiting the psych er. I eventually got back to normal but I still would get terrible spells of anxiety which lasted weeks. When I get anxiety, it gets worse and worse. I start to break down, not want to do anything, completely lose my appetite, etc. I cry for no reason. I just feel completely helpless.

 

After being admitted again 2 years ago, they switched me from paxil to lexapro. At this time, I lost about 25 lbs from the intense anxiety which led me to be very down. (Some would say depressed) I personally didn't want to be on any antidepressant but the doctors weren't having it.

 

By the way I forgot to mention, I was given klonopin a few times throughout the last 4 years temporarily which I only took a few times and stopped due to the absolute paranoia of developing a tolerance or addiction (although I don't have an addictive personality. I actually hate pills) I was always able to easily get off the klonopin because I would never take it longer than a few weeks.

 

I've decided I want to get off lexapro and any antidepressant for too I feel like they barely help, if even that. I don't like the sexual side effects either especially since I'm 22. In January I went from 20mg of lexapro to 10mg with just about no problems or withdrawals.

 

Then about a week ago I went down from 10 to 5mg. Then 3 days later I started feeling weird. Then it just got worse until I finally woke up feeling extremely anxious and so fearful of hitting rock bottom again. Should I continue with the 5mg or go back to 10mg? Can I take anything to help me through the withdrawal like the klonopin I have saved for emergencies? I was prescribed 45 in September to take as needed up to 3 times a day. Its May and I still have about 30 pills left? Please any help?!!

[Altostrata]

Juventus, your Intro topic is here. Bookmark it or click Follow this Topic on the upper right of the page to keep track of it.

 

Please put your questions about your Lexapro taper and your updates in this topic, as a type of journal.

[Juventus17]

Ok thanks. I have a question. Is there a possibility I have brain damage from SSRIs since I've been on them since I was 14? Has my development been altered/damaged? Can my brain ever recover from the antidepressants or will I always have problems even after discontinuation? If that's the case I rather be dead because there's no way I want to ever be antidepressants any longer. BTW I just went back up to 10 like you said. Still feeling anxious, sad, and wanting to cry for no reason.

[Altostrata]

Your brain and nervous system have accommodated themselves to the drugs, but they are not damaged. They can adjust to life without them, but your tapering will have to be very gradual to allow your nervous system to adjust.

 

You are having typical withdrawal symptoms. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[Juventus17]

Should I take the klonopin when the anxiety gets overwhelming as needed? I actually took it at work today because I felt I had to or I was going to start freaking out and have to leave. It helped me somewhat but only for a really short time. I have .5mg tablets. I really don't want to take another one even though I'm allowed up to 3 daily. This is from my prescription from last September unrelated to my current situation.

[Juventus17]

It seems my situation isn't really important here. I'm feeling horrible and want to die for ever being put on antidepressants. I'm only 22 and I feel that my brain is damaged and will continue this pain and misery for the rest of my life. After reading some articles from mad in america and others, I am convinced I will never recover. I can't afford to lose my job. I really don't know what to do.

[Altostrata]

You are suffering withdrawal syndrome from dropping from 10mg to 5mg.

 

Your decrease from 10mg to 5mg was too much. If I were you, I'd immediately updose to 10mg Lexapro and stabilize for a month or more.

 

[nz11]

Juventus  i am sorry you are going through this..i would like to tell you that Breggin (2013) says, "Children and teenagers are most likely to experience a complete clinical recovery after termination of the medication." Yes  i know you are 22 and not 19 but there is not a lot of difference. You are young and your body will recover. It is just going to take time.

 

Personally i would fight really hard to resist the klonopin. These anxiety type symptoms will pass if you just relax and accept it as how wdl is. They will not harm you despite there scaryness. They may go on for some time but if you panic every time one arrives and reach for something to swallow you will trigger a second drug addiction. I found trying to distract myself  from it helped. Even making oneself talk to a work coleague about last weeks sports game can distract the brain from its endless ruminations. imo.  Its not easy i know.

 

Rest assured your situation is important and i doubt very much whether you would get such expert empathic unconditional positive regard and help from any where else including the medical profession, however there are many who need help getting out from under the weight of these drugs  and the volunteer mods can only get to so many people at a time. I am sure they probably have jobs too.

Be patient and hang in there. Hope you stabilize soon.

Wishing you strength.

[mammaP]

You will recover Juventus, but it will take time. It will take a few days for your brain to register the change. It is only one week and you will get back on track. You were fine for a few months on 10mg and will be fine again. Please don't get into taking the klonopin as you will become addicted quite quickly then have to taper that too as Nz11 pointed out. It is not because of an addictive personality that people become addicted, it is because all psychotropic drugs change the way the brain works. It doesn't take very long for the brain to become dependent on them, particularly benzos such as klonopin. 

 

Your symptoms should settle down very soon. You are still young and your brain will adapt to being without the lexapro but ONLY if you taper it very slowly so that your brain can adapt to the lower doses as you taper. It is sneaking the drug away from the brain so it doesn't notice.  If you are impatient and try to rush it you will have the same symptoms you have now for a long time while your brain recovers.  You will get your brain back and will not believe how good it is because you have never experienced a healthy adult brain!   Try not to panic, and treat this as a temporary illness like the flu until the updose works. You can't change it, your body has to do the work, in this case the brain, and it will. You just need to help it along with good food, gentle exercise and distractions, to help to take the focus off the awful symptoms. 

 

Here is our mod Rhianna's explanation of growing a new brain, it might help you to understand. 

 

Rhi on how drugs change our brains/regowing a new brain through tapering

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

[Juventus17]

Thank you both for your very caring responses. I have been feeling so anxious that I had to call out of work today. I have no motivation to do anything including shower. I get these bouts of anxiety every now and then and it all goes downhill from there. I don't have an appetite. I cry. I just want to dissapear. Could barely sleep through the night. I effectively got off paxil without many problems back when I was 17 so I don't understand why I had such a bad reaction from 10 to 5 of lexapro even though I did a 50% decrease a few months ago (20 to 10) with little to no problems. As far as the klonopin goes, I hate taking it. The first time I was prescribed it was 2 or 3 years ago while I was transitioning to lexapro from paxil. I never took it for more than 2 or 3 weeks and never had a problem coming off of them. The last time I was prescribed them was September of last year when I was struck with another bout of debilitating anxiety for an unknown reason. I was given a prescription of 45 pills as needed up to 3 times daily. Its now the middle of May and I still have around 30 pills. I took it yesterday when I was at work because I felt so on edge but it barely did anything so now I just refuse to take it. My mother and other people tell me I should just take it for now but I really don't want to. Today's my second day back on 10mg of lexapro after being on 5 for a little over a week.

[Altostrata]

It will take at least 4 days for your system to register the dosage increase. Be patient.

 

It can help to keep notes on paper regarding your daily symptom pattern, so you can see what changes.

 

How often have you been taking the benzo?

[Juventus17]

Ok I will try. Thanks for the reassurance. I took 2 .5 tablets in the last 3 days and I don't remember how long ago I took one before that. I rarely ever take them. Only when I feel incredibly desperate and with pressure from family, I take one. Benzos scare me.

[Altostrata]

It's best to take benzos as infrequently as possible, and at the lowest effective dosage.

[Juventus17]

It's best to take benzos as infrequently as possible, and at the lowest effective dosage.

I totally agree. Are there any supplements I can take that could make tapering off easier? Also, how you feel about switching to Prozac for an easier tapering?

[Juventus17]

4 days back on 10 mg started feeling better but today I woke up with horrible anxiety. It's so bad I keep breaking down crying and I just feel like being dead. I don't understand. I felt like I was starting to stabilize again. I don't know what to do. I had to call out of work again and I absolutely refuse to take the klonopin I have.

[Altostrata]

It may take some time for you to stabilize. See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Switching to Prozac incurs additional risks: The switch may not work -- you may still get Lexapro withdrawal -- and it can be difficult to go off Prozac, too. It's an option if you cannot taper directly from Lexapro.

 

You have not given a gradual taper from Lexapro a chance yet.

 

See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions about how to ease symptoms.

[Juventus17]

It may take some time for you to stabilize. See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Switching to Prozac incurs additional risks: The switch may not work -- you may still get Lexapro withdrawal -- and it can be difficult to go off Prozac, too. It's an option if you cannot taper directly from Lexapro.

 

You have not given a gradual taper from Lexapro a chance yet.

 

See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions about how to ease symptoms.

I understand what you're saying about the tapering. I'm not concerned about that at the moment. As of now, I'm having debilitating anxiety which stopped me from going to work again today. I'm heading down the path again of not eating, not exercising, just laying on my couch crying, etc. I really don't want to do. I don't want to be hospitalized again as they mostlty nothing for me anyways.

[Altostrata]

You might consider taking a tiny crumb of the benzo rather than the whole tablet.

 

What time did you have this symptom relative to when you took Prozac?

[Juventus17]

You might consider taking a tiny crumb of the benzo rather than the whole tablet.

 

What time did you have this symptom relative to when you took Prozac?

I've never taken Prozac. I just read online that it can be easier to withdraw from Prozac compared to Lexapro which is why I asked your opinion on that.

 

You said I may consider taking a crumb of the klonopin. However, I took one .5 tablet on Sunday at work and it barely did anything which scares me. I don't want to take anymore than that. How long does it take to develop a physical dependence or get withdrawal from stopping? I took it only twice since Friday. The last time I took it was maybe 8 months ago before that. I'm really worried. I don't want to lose my job. I can't keep missing work like this.

[Altostrata]

Pardon me, I meant Lexapro rather than Prozac.

 

Please try to pin down your symptom pattern. You may need to keep notes on paper.

[sky68]

hi Juventus,

 

So sorry to hear your story and that you were put on meds at such an early age.

I would have tapered more slowly than I did if I knew about this site earlier. There are some very good tips as tapering 10% at a time.

I haven't, in the beginning I tapered in greater amount without any noticable changes and side effects. But as the doses are smaller, the more difficult it can be to taper off.

Alto has great advice, go back to 10 mg and work from there.

Take your time!

 

Good luck

x

[Juventus17]

Pardon me, I meant Lexapro rather than Prozac.

 

Please try to pin down your symptom pattern. You may need to keep notes on paper.

I took your advice and went back up to 10mg Lexapro either 3 or 4 days ago. I felt like I was starting to make some progress with my anxiety. Today, I just woke up feeling horrible though. Super anxious with a tight chest, racing thoughts,etc. I'm so dissapointed as I thought I was starting to stabilize. I feel completely helpless and I don't know what to do. How do you feel about my response about the benzo?

[Juventus17]

hi Juventus,

 

So sorry to hear your story and that you were put on meds at such an early age.

I would have tapered more slowly than I did if I knew about this site earlier. There are some very good tips as tapering 10% at a time.

I haven't, in the beginning I tapered in greater amount without any noticable changes and side effects. But as the doses are smaller, the more difficult it can be to taper off.

Alto has great advice, go back to 10 mg and work from there.

Take your time!

 

Good luck

x

Thank you for your kind words. I really feel terrible that I was put on antidepressants at 14 years old. I feel like it's taken a toll on my brain. I'm paranoid that I have irreversible damage to my brain and will be stuck on these pills for the rest of my life. I really don't want to depend on these drugs anymore. My doctor told me it would be ok to go from 20 to 10 to 5 to 0. I didn't think I would get any withdrawal since I successfully went down to 10 from 20 4 or 5 months ago without any problems. I don't see a point of being on meds when I still get the occasional bouts of anxiety that lasts weeks sometimes. My anxiety was never a steady problem. It comes in episodes and always has. I'm starting to run out of ideas. The anxiety is just too much.

[Juventus17]

I have concluded that antidepressants have destroyed my brain development since I started them as an adolescent which is probably why I get my bouts of anxiety so much more frequently. They put me on antidepressants before trying talk therapy. My mission is to now find the doctor responsible for putting me on Paxil and make him pay. Starting to care less about my life.

[westcoast]

Juventis, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I hope you mean a lawsuit rather than any kind of retaliation. What you have been feeling is typical for many of us here. We all say "i don't know how I got through it," but we did. It takes incredible faith in the future to endure the symptoms. For some they go away with weeks or months. For others it is much longer.

 

I think you should find doctor who is experienced in advising about withdrawal and allow that doctor to monitor and respond to changes in dosing. It looks like going back to 10mg did not help and may have hurt. It might be that a crumb of Klonapin was not enough. I got no relief from a normal dose, myself. I was able to safely use Ativan and Xanax a few times, never for more than 10 days in a row. Others get addicted to both, though I don't know of members here who got hooked after joining and learning to avoid addiction by using them very sparingly.

 

That thing about easy withdrawal the first time and terrible symptoms the second time is pretty common. It happened to me. I don't know why it happens, but you are not alone in that.

[Leona]

I took Accutane when I was 22-23 and had some problems too, I'm not sure if it was the Accutane or the crazy diets I had been into, maybe it was both... Until now I've taken 16 different drugs for depression, started Lexapro 3 days ago. I was clean for around 2 months after quitting Klonopin cold-turkey, I had been taking it for 3 years.

What I have to tell you is, tapper off SLOWLY! I know the stigma of taking antidepressants is hard to hold but trust me, it's better to keep it as a secret for you and take the time it needs for your brain to adjust, I don't want what I had for my worst enemy. 

Your brain is used to function with the help of these drugs, it's normal to feel weird until it re-adapts on living without it. I had crazy memory problems and I also thought I would never recover but now I see my memory is getting back to normal. I'm sure you will recover too but be patient! Some people lose half their brain on accidents and they manage to recover, why would a simple addiction be worse? 

I read that antidepressants don't fix the chemical imbalance on the brain, they only make the neurotransmitters more active without making the brain produce more. It only masks the problem. You can search Google for T.J. Nelson, this guy has a nice theory on brain chemicals and nutrition. Depression can have many causes. maybe this is not yours but you might give it a try and see if it works for you.

And for Klonopin, I still have a box in my drawer just in case. DON'T take it unless you are freaking out BADLY. Also, don't take the entire tablet! I have 2mg tablets and I crack them in 4 and only take 1/4 when I really need (since I quit I took only 2 times). I've never been addicted to anything before, I even took another benzos for short periods and wasn't addicted at all but don't underestimate the addictive potential of Klonopin... I live in Brazil and people here take Klonopin for anything and end up addicted, it's the 2nd most prescribed drug in Brazil. I went to a GP because I wasn't sleeping right and he gave me, and after some months I couldn't live without it anymore