simack: Trying to taper off antipsychotic's (saphris/zyprexa).

[oskcajga]

Hey all I just wanted to ask a quick question about beta blockers. My doctor has prescribed me some to help with the racing heart/anxiety, I just wanted to ask if it is safe to take them in withdrawal or am I going to further screw up my nervous system? Thanks

 

Virtually all drugs build tolerance, especially those (from what I've read).  Anything a doctor gives me as a quick fix for withdrawal symptoms is always looked at with extreme suspicion by myself. 

[simack]

Yeah it's pronanolol, thanks jammin/ oskcajga i might give it a miss then, hopefully things will start to stabilize soon.

[simack]

Well it looks like I'm in the market for a new psychiatrist after today's session. I was explaining my situation to him, and how it's all related to discontinuing saphris, yet he would have none of it, he put my symptoms down to "and underlying psychosis" and prescribed some pregabalin to help with the anxiety... Just so frustrating to come up against a brick wall. So I'm looking at contacting Dr Robbery Purssey to see if he can do Skype sessions, I hear he's well regarded in this field?

[Fresh]

Hi again , you  might check the Australia room in the Relationships section , there is some discussion about Dr Purssey , fees

etc, see post 93.    Also Ardyes' thread.

 

I can recommend Dr Yolande Lucire , see this page http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6383-dr-yolande-lucire-adverse-reactions-to-psychiatric-drugs/

She can skype and bulk bill you and will 100% support your taper.

 

Her email is Lucire@ozemail.com.au , will get details of her new website asap.

[simack]

Thanks fresh I'll definitely have a look, I just wanted to say I greatly appreciate all the help and advice I've received on here, this place has literally been a life saver for me, so yeah thanks again everyone!.

[Fresh]

Sweet simack ,    her website is DrLucire.com

 

This site really is extraordinary . . . we're lucky to have found it.

 

[simack]

Hey all I managed to get in contact with Dr Yolande Lucire and she has agreed to start treating me, I'm just working on getting some paper work organized before we start Skype sessions. I've been holding my doses at 3.75 olanzapine + 50mg quetiapine for a month now, I'm somehow managing to average about 6-7 hours sleep most nights, with about one night a week sleepless.I don't wake feeling rested just fatigued mostly. I'm Still managing to hold down my construction job (barely). Can't say I've experienced any windows yet just what I would describe as days of Less intense waves. Anxiety is still ever present yet manageable, just hoping things pick up soon so I can resume tapering

[LoveandLight]

Hope you feel better soon simack. Doing well to hold down a job

[simack]

Thanks loveandlight hope your doing well too

[Fresh]

Any changes in your symptoms in the past week?   Everyone who's told you not to rush things is right - it hardly ever works out.

For many of us , we were okay for months after stopping different meds , then got slammed with severe symptoms.

For me , it hit hard at 6 months after my last dose of cymbalta 2014.  This is called "delayed protracted withdrawal syndrome".

 

Your taper is going to be a long process , but you can do it with minimal discomfort so that you can maintain your job and relationships if you

take it slow.

Good to hear you've connected with Yola.  

[simack]

Hey fresh, my symptoms seem to be slowly easing up, I don't want to speak to soon but the insomnia isn't quite as bad these days and the anxiety isn't quite as overwhelming, I'm hoping it's a sign that I'm starting to stabilize. I'm about to change my dose from 1/2 a 5mg + 1/2 a 2.5mg olanzapine tablet (3.75mg) to 1/2 a 7.5mg tablet, because it's cheaper, I'm just hoping it won't upset things.

[Fresh]

Try to get tabs from the same manufacturer - people sometimes have problems when changing brands.  It should be fine.

 

VERY good news things are settling - you're right , you're beginning to stabilize.  Woo-hoo!!

[ang]

Welcome simack, just signing in to say hello from another Aussie,   I am in Western Australia.............

[simack]

Hey ang!, sorry I didn't see your message until now, hope things are going well for you. Had my first Skype session with Dr Yolande Lucire tonight, she agrees with me that I never should have been treated with antipsychotic's, and supports my tapering, anxiety is back with a vengeance unfortunately, at least my insomnia is sort of under control

[oskcajga]

Hey ang!, sorry I didn't see your message until now, hope things are going well for you. Had my first Skype session with Dr Yolande Lucire tonight, she agrees with me that I never should have been treated with antipsychotic's, and supports my tapering, anxiety is back with a vengeance unfortunately, at least my insomnia is sort of under control

 

That will all go away with time.

[simack]

Sure hope so oskcajga, just feel as though I'm stuck here and I'm always going to be this way. The insomnia is back, just when it seemed like things were starting to stabilize and I was even considering a cut, looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer...

[simack]

Hey all was looking for some advice, I'm now into my third day of no sleep, and I'm really at a loss at what to do now. I fear I'm going to lose my job due to exhaustion and lack of concentration, I'm a roofer so I need to be alert. I was thinking of maybe increasing the seroquel to 75 and see if that works?, I don't want to go down the benzo path if I can help it, I've tried doxylamine succinate recently and had a bad reaction to it, what are peoples thoughts on z drugs, zopiclone etc.

[Fresh]

Why don't you email Yola and ask her.    I wouldn't know what to suggest.  How much melatonin are you taking?

You have quite a cocktail going there so I wouldn't want to be adding anything else.

 

?

[simack]

Thanks fresh, I might ask yola's advice. I'm currently taking 2mg of melatonin and it seems to help a bit, I finally burnt out last night and managed to get about six hours sleep, so hopefully it continues. Yeah I'm not too keen on adding any new drugs either, it's surprising how desperate you can become when the dreaded withdrawal insomnia hits. I think that getting my sleep under control is critical in getting my nervous system to stabilize.

[simack]

Well it's between there months now since my last dose of saphris, the zyprexa I'm on seems to be taking the edge of the anxiety for now, but I'm concerned that when I finally taper off it, it will all come racing back. Still having bad insomnia, I'm just starting to worry that I'm never going to stabilize and recover, I don't think I could tolerate living like this for the rest of my life.

[oskcajga]

Well it's between there months now since my last dose of saphris, the zyprexa I'm on seems to be taking the edge of the anxiety for now, but I'm concerned that when I finally taper off it, it will all come racing back. Still having bad insomnia, I'm just starting to worry that I'm never going to stabilize and recover, I don't think I could tolerate living like this for the rest of my life.

 

It won't be the rest of your life.  You will probably have an anxiety rebound, but after some time that will settle down and you'll be OK.

 

So you're still on

Pristiq-100mg ~Current

Olanzapine- 3.75mg May 2015 ~ Currently tapering

Quetiapine- 50mg June 2015

 

?

[simack]

Yeah all except the olanzapine.. I know it was a stupid move on my behalf but i tapered down to 3.12mg two weeks ago. I was concerned the olanzapine/quetiapine combo might have been adding to my agitation and fatigue.I had a couple of days of slightly higher than usual anxiety then it settled down some.

[oskcajga]

Yeah all except the olanzapine.. I know it was a stupid move on my behalf but i tapered down to 3.12mg two weeks ago. I was concerned the olanzapine/quetiapine combo might have been adding to my agitation and fatigue.I had a couple of days of slightly higher than usual anxiety then it settled down some.

 

That's fine.

 

The pristiq is most likely causing your insomnia and restlessness.  100mg is not a small dose by any stretch of the imagination.  50mg is the recommended dose and you're taking 100mg.

 

If I were in  your situation, that's the medication I would immediately begin a 10% taper with, followed second by the zyprexa, and third by the seroquel.

 

Once you get down to 50mg of pristiq, I would be a bit surprised if you had any problem with sleep and restlessness and anxiety.

[simack]

Thanks oskcajga I appreciate your help. I'll look into tapering the pristiq, I was initially on 200mg and managed to get myself down to 100mg.

[Petunia]

simack,

 

I don't think this is the time to be starting another taper. Its true that you are on a higher than normal dose of Pristiq, but I doubt this is what's causing your current symptoms.

 

You've made a lot of drug changes in less than 2 months. Each change rocks your nervous system.

 

The constant anxiety, intermittent insomnia, and increased urination are withdrawal symptoms. Your nervous system is complaining.

 

If I were you, I'd stop changing dosages, etc. and hold for a good long time, to let your nervous system settle down.

 

 

... my symptoms seem to be slowly easing up, I don't want to speak to soon but the insomnia isn't quite as bad these days and the anxiety isn't quite as overwhelming, I'm hoping it's a sign that I'm starting to stabilize. I'm about to change my dose from 1/2 a 5mg + 1/2 a 2.5mg olanzapine tablet (3.75mg) to 1/2 a 7.5mg tablet, because it's cheaper, I'm just hoping it won't upset things.

 

 

Had my first Skype session with Dr Yolande Lucire tonight, she agrees with me that I never should have been treated with antipsychotic's, and supports my tapering, anxiety is back with a vengeance unfortunately, at least my insomnia is sort of under control

 

 

Yeah all except the olanzapine.. I know it was a stupid move on my behalf but i tapered down to 3.12mg two weeks ago.

 

You need to stop making changes and let your nervous system settle down before continuing or starting a new taper.

 

Osk, please read back through a persons thread so you understand the complete situation before giving advice.

[oskcajga]

simack,

 

I don't think this is the time to be starting another taper. Its true that you are on a higher than normal dose of Pristiq, but I doubt this is what's causing your current symptoms.

 

You've made a lot of drug changes in less than 2 months. Each change rocks your nervous system.

 

The constant anxiety, intermittent insomnia, and increased urination are withdrawal symptoms. Your nervous system is complaining.

 

If I were you, I'd stop changing dosages, etc. and hold for a good long time, to let your nervous system settle down.

 

 

... my symptoms seem to be slowly easing up, I don't want to speak to soon but the insomnia isn't quite as bad these days and the anxiety isn't quite as overwhelming, I'm hoping it's a sign that I'm starting to stabilize. I'm about to change my dose from 1/2 a 5mg + 1/2 a 2.5mg olanzapine tablet (3.75mg) to 1/2 a 7.5mg tablet, because it's cheaper, I'm just hoping it won't upset things.

 

 

Had my first Skype session with Dr Yolande Lucire tonight, she agrees with me that I never should have been treated with antipsychotic's, and supports my tapering, anxiety is back with a vengeance unfortunately, at least my insomnia is sort of under control

 

 

Yeah all except the olanzapine.. I know it was a stupid move on my behalf but i tapered down to 3.12mg two weeks ago.

 

You need to stop making changes and let your nervous system settle down before continuing or starting a new taper.

 

Osk, please read back through a persons thread so you understand the complete situation before giving advice.

 

Alright.

[simack]

Another update and I don't know what I should do now, its been three days since I've managed to get any sleep, should I keep holding my doses where I am and hope that I eventually burn out, or maybe try a slight increase in either the olanzapine or seroquel to see if that helps?

[simack]

I'm seriously thinking about switching back to saphris.... I don't know how long I can handle this torture

[Fresh]

Hey Simack , do you think the problems starting since decreasing the Olanzapine?

Sept.3: "  i tapered down to 3.12mg two weeks ago".   

[simack]

Hi fresh, I'm not sure, I've always had the insomnia intermittently since quittng saphris , but this is the longest time I've gone without sleep. I reduced about two weeks ago and things were fine up until now, can it take two weeks for a taper to hit your nervous system?

[Fresh]

I'm not sure about anti psychotics . . . with antidepressants there's usually a delayed fallout.

I'm getting a bit confused here.   How long ago did you quit saphris?    Perhaps you could add that to your sig.

Perhaps the best thing to increase is what you most recently decreased , i.e. Olanzapine?

 

I hope one of the mods. will be along to advise.

[simack]

I started saphris around August 2014 and made many attempts at quitting ct from January 2015 onwards, i made my last rapid taper around April/may 2015. And haven't had any since. I was put on olanzapine to handle the fallout from the taper, then I later, quite stupidly added a low dose of seroquel myself thinking it would cure my insomnia problems..I thought it wasn't going to hurt being primarily an antihistamine at low doses.

[Fresh]

Ok , I think if it were me , I'd probably increase the olanzapine to where it was 2 weeks ago.  Then wait.   Then wait some more.

 

You added the seroquel in June , right?  Have you been taking that every night since?  If so , don't touch the dose.  Keep everything else the

same.  

We've probably all been guilty of trying to  manipulate medications at times , but often it just isn't possible to get a great result from adding things. You're going for "less bad" at the moment , and you need to be satisfied with that.   Obviously the fact that you may fall off a roof at work

plays into it too.  I understand that you want to get better quickly , but my experience is that we can't outsmart the process of withdrawal.  

If you don't feel safe , you might be able to take some leave on medical grounds?   Yola would likely support that with a medical certificate.

 

Fresh

[simack]

Thanks fresh, I'm going to try the higher dose of olanzapine tonight and hope for the best, greatly appreciate the help

[simack]

Ok so I made another dumb move over the weekend and am paying greatly for it now, it started when I went to see my doctor about my insomnia problems and explaining my situation to him.  He started freaking out about me being on two antipsychotics, saying how dangerous that is and he really had me concerned for my health. His plan was for me to increase the seroquell to 200mg ir at night for sleep, and to stop the zyprexa asap...Being terrified at the time I complied, the first night I was actually quite fine, I didnt want to stop the zyprexa CT so i dropped it to 2.5 and managed a good nights sleep and felt relatively good, Sunday night was when the insomnia struck back, then Monday night I became desperate again and upped the zyprexa to 5mg finally getting rest... last night I returned to my holding doses of 3.75 olanzapine and 50 seroquell where I'm going to stay at least until my sleep returns to normal.

Anxiety is higher again but hopefully that settles down soon, Yes It was incredibly stupid of me to do this but I guess its another lesson learned the hard way, I now know not to trust doctors with treating withdrawal symptoms. It's just so hard to be stuck on doses and not feeling like your making any progress, I feel's like I'm stuck in a hole with no way out. 

[simack]

An update, I'm feeling quite defeated at the moment, after somehow managing to obtain a wonderful week of reasonable sleep I'm now back to three to four hours a night. This windows and waves pattern of healing is torture, I'm five months out from stopping saphris now and was hoping this would have settled at least a bit. I've been holding my doses waiting impatiently to stabilize and getting nowhere. I've been speaking with Dr Yolande and she has suggested tapering the pristiq.I don't know I really want to rid my body of antipsychotic's, can't handle the fatigue/ neuroleptic induced deficit syndrome intense hunger they cause