5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and l-tryptophan

[inmediares]

I tried it recently (specifically for trying to overcome obsessive thoughts) and had to abandon it.

 

I found it to be sedating in a sense -- although more in a zoned out, disconnected manner that became unpleasant.

 

Your experience may vary, of course. I haven't tried it, but there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for magnesium as a supplement to aid with insomnia. My son uses melatonin and believes it provides help.

 

Good luck.

[Altostrata]

I put the 5-HTP discussion here. I know it's hard to find it in Search, our search function ignores 3-letter words.

 

Some people find it works for sleep and others find it doesn't.

[fj929]

I put the 5-HTP discussion here. I know it's hard to find it in Search, our search function ignores 3-letter words.

 

Some people find it works for sleep and others find it doesn't.

 

 

Alto what are you thoughts on using 5htp during withdrawal? Could it help\hinder recovery?

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Its effect is unpredictable. Try it at your own risk, and only a very small amount in case you get a bad reaction.

[Shipko]

Years ago I gave patients L-tryptophan 1000 mg which I thought would, at least theoretically, help with SSRI 'withdrawal.' In some patients I used 1000 mg two or three times a day. For maximum effect, it should not be given with protein or other amino acids as they share a common transport mechanism, and it is taken with sugar or some other source of carbohydrate to maximize gut absorption. 5HTP is converted to serotonin largely outside of the CNS, and serotonin itself does not cross the blood brain barrier. With tryptophan, it does cross the blood brain barrier and results in a higher CNS serotonin level.

 

It did not make a meaningful difference.

 

I also used to give SAM-e along with the tryptophan sometimes. The theory is that SAM-e enhances neurotransmitter synthesis. The SAM-e, alone or in combination with tryptophan, did not make a meaningful difference. A few patients did find it modestly helpful for sleep, but most felt nothing with the tryptophan.

 

As noted above, use of 5HTP or tryptophan should not be done while tapering because if taken along with a SSRI it can cause serotonin syndrome.

 

There is no question that both 5HTP and L-tryptophan raise brain serotonin. One can conclude from this that the 'withdrawal' symptoms are not actually due to depletion of serotonin.

[Altostrata]

Thanks for that information, Dr. Shipko.

 

You may be interested to know we have a couple of people here who suffered withdrawal syndrome identical to antidepressant withdrawal syndrome after taking SAM-e regularly for a long while, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1822-romido-sam-e-gave-me-withdrawals/

 

This indicates to me not only do these supplements raise serotonin in the brain, if used regularly they cause downregulation of serotonin receptors, too -- and such effects are not beneficial!

 

We have a number of people who have reported fairly dramatic adverse overstimulation effects from SAM-e taken when they have withdrawal symptoms.

 

It seems tryptophan is somewhat milder, with fewer reports of such adverse effects when taken during withdrawal syndrome.

 

Personally, in withdrawal syndrome, I got blood pressure spikes from SAM-e but a fractional dose of tryptophan (100mg-250mg) seemed to have no effect (at that point I chickened out).

 

[Also see our topic on SAM-e]

[aza]

You're welcome, Nikki. Let us know what works for you.

 

Hi Alto, A friend of mine is taking lexapro, someone has suggested substituting 5HTP for the lexapro can this be done or help? Should they still taper? My friend is being told 5HTP is like lexapro only without the side effects. What do you think?

 

I want to tell her to do a slow taper. She is a member of the Magnesium Advocacy Group. Is 5HTP safe to take?

 

Thanks!

[Jemima]

 

Hi Alto, A friend of mine is taking lexapro, someone has suggested substituting 5HTP for the lexapro can this be done or help? Should they still taper? My friend is being told 5HTP is like lexapro only without the side effects. What do you think?

 

I want to tell her to do a slow taper. She is a member of the Magnesium Advocacy Group. Is 5HTP safe to take?

 

Thanks!

 

I've never heard that 5HTP can be substituted for Lexapro and I wouldn't recommend trying it. 5HTP in addition to an antidepressant is downright dangerous, see below.

 

5 HTP and Tryptophan

 

I would definitely encourage your friend to do a long, slow taper, speaking as someone with immediate experience in tapering Lexapro too fast. After 17 months off, I'm finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, and it hasn't been a pleasant 17 months for the most part.

 

Here's some info on magnesium:

 

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

About the only danger in taking too much magnesium is risking a bout of diarrhea.

 

Please do encourage your friend to do a safe, sane taper off of Lexapro when she is ready, and of course, steer her here to this forum for support.

[Altostrata]

To my knowledge, there are no supplements you can substitute to bridge off an antidepressant. Antidepressants are far too strong. There are no shortcuts to tapering.

[Jemima]

Here's another post by Johnson regarding his struggle getting over the side effects of 5HTP:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3879-johnson-5htp-and-pssd/page__gopid__52732#entry52732. See post #6.

[Lilu]

I took 100 mg of 5-HTP one night, while on Lexapro (either 10mg or 5mg) and woke up 4 hours later with diarrhea.  That was enough of an experiment for me!

 

With all the talk of L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP causing Serotonin Syndrome, I just don't know how Marty Hinz can advocate the use of very high doses of both 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine, DURING antidepressant therapy.  I read his paper, and clinically it made sense, but for me it didn't work. For discussion on Marty Hinz theories, see this topic: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3058-marty-hinz-supplements-and-neurotransmitter-imbalance/

 

So, after I stopped taking my antidepressant completely, I've tried taking 5-HTP 100 mg to 200 mg at night.  And I think, the next day, I wind up having worse crying spells!  I still haven't given up on using Amino Acids, but for me, I think I better wait until I'm done with withdrawal!

[SetMeFree]

If your on a low dose of paxil and you start getting rebound anxiety is it ok to add 5htp to the mix.. I heard it works for anxiety?

[spidey]

I wish I could say since I'm curious about the stuff myself. I'm a little confused as to why bridge tapering with another drug like Prozac is seen as okay, but doing so with 5htp is generally discouraged. Someone should be along shortly with a more knowledgeable take on this subject than I can offer.....

[Altostrata]

5-HTP has unpredictable effects. See the discussion above in this topic.

 

People are cautioned not to add 5-HTP to an antidepressant because it might cause serotonin syndrome, a serious adverse reaction from too much serotonin in the brain.

 

One danger is you don't have any idea what dosage of 5-HTP might be too much for you. It's a serotonergic, it's not a benign, harmless supplement.

[Pokeshaw]

I took 100 mg of 5-HTP one night, while on Lexapro (either 10mg or 5mg) and woke up 4 hours later with diarrhea.  That was enough of an experiment for me!

 

With all the talk of L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP causing Serotonin Syndrome, I just don't know how Marty Hinz can advocate the use of very high doses of both 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine, DURING antidepressant therapy.  I read his paper, and clinically it made sense, but for me it didn't work. For discussion on Marty Hinz theories, see this topic: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3058-marty-hinz-supplements-and-neurotransmitter-imbalance/

 

So, after I stopped taking my antidepressant completely, I've tried taking 5-HTP 100 mg to 200 mg at night.  And I think, the next day, I wind up having worse crying spells!  I still haven't given up on using Amino Acids, but for me, I think I better wait until I'm done with withdrawal!

 

Hi Lilu - i have been tapering off Lexapro . i actually tried the Hinz NeuroReplete protocol for several months. i had some good days for sure but overall it was very up and down. the naturopath i was working with kept increasing the dosages (i was taking 5-6 different combinations that Hinz sells) based on urine tests but i had bad reactions and fluctuations so i stopped because the anxiety was increasing. the best i felt on it was at the beginning at the low doses. after that it got increasingly bumpy.  am only taking Lexapro now. at this point i am down to 0.6 mg compounded capsules. doing better than when i was on the NeuroReplete protocol. I have gotten so much good info at this site. i wish i had found it sooner! but very grateful to be here.

[CharlieBrown]

I experimented with 5-HTP for a few weeks taking 100mg at night with 5mg of B6.

 

But haven't thought about taking it since because it made me manic and over confident. Absoloutly certain my thoughts we're reality.

 

Not to mention the weird dreams.

[Altostrata]

The B6 might have had something to do with that, too.

[Lilu]

The B6 might have had something to do with that, too.

 Vit B6 is a cofactor to 5htp that helps its metabolism.

 

Here's some interesting facts and fiction on 5htp.

http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/46-5-htp-facts-and-fiction

[Altostrata]

B6 can be activating for people who are sensitive to it, particularly in withdrawal syndrome.

[CharlieBrown]

In the past week I decided to experiment with 5-HTP and B6 again. Taking 100mg-5mg morning and night. Most people I've read about on the internet are taking 50mg or 100mg once daily. But the bottle I have says to take 3 times daily. I figured I would give it another shot, because I can stop just as quickly as starting and the worst thing that could happen from my point of view is nausea or whatever.

 

To my suprise it seemed to increase my mood range dramatically. Feeling a sense of joy that persisted throughout the day. Also some pretty low feelings crept about, but I've been quite aware of my thoughts reciently and have been more accepting of them as just transient vibrations of perception. So I crused with the good vibrations.

 

I've decided not to continue taking 5-HTP with B6 though. Because after researching more I've found some saying it can increase blood levels of serotonin to an undesireable level causing potential heart problems. While others saying there is not evidence for that yet. But I'd like to be on the safer side. Plus I would like to get the monoamines for my body from diet not supplement. And I'd like to avoid those really vivid dreams.

 

With regard to B6 I am still considering taking that as a supplement in small doses. >5mg If I can find it in the store. I would like to do that because B6 is essential for your body, aids in monoamine synthesis and gene expression, to mention a couple things. (There's so much more, but those really stuck out in my mind) Although I have read about the dangers of too much B6 and have also considered just eating more RAW food. Instead of cooking the B6 out of the meal.

[SouthernFreeze]

hmm i'm still confused whether to take this, a naturopath told me it was fine to take at night if i had a very small amount of effexor in the morning. And that is what i was doing, then came totally off the effexor and up'd my dose of 5htp for two weeks. I was feeling ok considering how bad the withdrawals can be from Effexor.

 

Now after being told about future withdrawals i am back on 5mg of effexor and have been for two days now.

 

It's weird, Effexor makes me a bit sleepy and crave sugary food and drink, and 5htp makes me a bit sleepy, but awake at the same time, and i eat less and don't desire sugary food and feel **** when i do eat it...though that could just be a effexor withdrawal symptom.

 

Confusing, all in all though, from what i have gathered so far, 5htp has nowhere near the side effects of effexor, and is very mild compared.

 

I might add that i have been on strong multi b vitamin supplements for about 6 months, if anything, i have noticed this makes me feel slightly better and also stop my cravings for sugary drinks for some reason  ( ya can see i have a sugary drinks problem )

 

oh i forgot, i didn't even add it to my history, but i took Tryptophan for about two months while on 37.5mg of effexor and it did nothing whatsoever which is why i forgot about it.

 

uh i also take magnesium pills two times a day.

[SouthernFreeze]

I experimented with 5-HTP for a few weeks taking 100mg at night with 5mg of B6.

 

But haven't thought about taking it since because it made me manic and over confident. Absoloutly certain my thoughts we're reality.

 

Not to mention the weird dreams.

apparently the dreams go away after about a month of taking them

[Finn]

Do you think 5-HTP helps or hinders withdrawal in the long-run? I know for me it has helped with some of the acute symptoms like zaps and dizziness, but now I'm wondering if by taking it, I am actually preventing my serotonin receptors from repopulating.

[Altostrata]

Don't worry about your serotonin receptors. If 5-HTP works for you, it works.

[Finn]

Mood wise I don't know how well it worked. I haven't taken it in about a week, and I've felt pretty okay. But I have been dizzy/ had a headache so maybe it was helping with that withdrawal symptom. I may take 5-HTP and see if it reduces the dizziness to confirm that though.

[rapunzel2]

as I understand, tryptophan is much safer than 5-htp.

 

I'm planning to try tryptophan and tyrosine. I have had positive effect in withdrawal with amino acid complex, but this has low levels of all aminos. now I will be trying with higeher levels of tryptophan and tyrosine. 

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd try the two things separately. And I would be very careful with tyrosine, it can be highly activating http://www.livestrong.com/article/448045-l-tyrosine-side-effects/

[rapunzel2]

yes, thanks for bringing that out! I will start them separately. 

I'm soooo tired all the time, so a little activation wouldn't do harm but of course, the effect may be unexpected. 

I will let you know how it goes. It takes about 2 weeks to get the order that I did. 

I also ordered some GABA. 

[rapunzel2]

I took tryptophan (1000mg), and it made me a little bit agitated at the evening. at the same time I think my sleep quality was a bit better because I feel more rested. and I saw a lot of dreams. 

 

my friend (who's also withdrawing) had the same initial response of agitation for a few days, then it subsided. also had intensive dreams at first, it has subsided as well. she says the sleep is better. 

 

I also started today with tyrosine, 1000mg. don't feel any effects from that.

 

I will keep you updated about how it goes. 

[rapunzel2]

second night with tryptophan. my sleep is so much better. it has a deeper quality and I wake up more rested and earlier (my big problem has been disrupted sleep quality and hypersomnia). I'm excited and hopeful!

 

I will go away from the internet for a few weeks, but give you and update when I come back. 

[gettingunstuck]

As suggested, I'm writing about my experience with some supplements I've been taking for depression and anxiety.  Recently I decided to start taking amino acids.  I started out with DLPA and Tyrosine.  They didn't seem to be helping a lot, so I added L-Tryptophan.  The L-Tryptophan worked pretty well for a few days, then I started getting really bad anxiety.  I would wake up in the middle of the night with a pounding heart, feeling really hopeless and panic-stricken.  It didn't make a lot of sense to me, so I started reading up on it and saw something about taking P5P (which is a form of B6) with the Tryptophan.  I had been taking the P5P, but I started taking it at the same time as Tryptophan.  It didn't work.  Still lots of anxiety.  I talked to my acupuncturist about the anxiety and also stopped all amino acids.  He gave me a formula called Tien Wang Bu Xin Dan, and so far it's been helping with the anxiety and is even helping my depression a little.  The depression might be getting a little better because the anxiety is not so bad, though, so I'm not really sure what's happening.  Whatever it is, I'm definitely feeling better.  It's my understanding that there are quite a few Chinese herbal formulas that can help with mood disorders, but finding the right one probably takes a practitioner of Chinese medicine.  Once you find the right one, the practitioner can use that information when doing acupuncture.  

[Meimeiquest]

I take GABA, inositol, and taurine for calming. Don't know if I'll come out alive or not

[Meimeiquest]

First, I am not "recommending" anything. Although I think I'll live (lol), I am not sure at all how this will turn out.

 

I use NOW brand powders of inositol, taurine, and GABA, from Amazon, because they're cheap.

 

www.genesaliving.com sells an amino acid formulation that my new pdoc thinks is really helpful. That is all I know about it. He basically said any amount of supplements is safer than a benzo, in his opinion.

 

Good luck!

[mammaP]

I've never had any of those but if you decide to try them start very low and one at a time so you will

know which one is causing problems. Recently I bought some valerian tablets, the recommended dose was

4 tablets, I took one and was ill for 2 days! If it had been tablets with mixed ingredients, such as hops I 

wouldn't have known what was causing the problem. 

 

Search for them in the self care forum, you will find info in there.  It's best to use google, this is a great forum

but the search facility isn't very good. type surviving antidepressants tryptophan and it will bring up the topics in here. 

Then try the others. 

[LovingSupport]

My question is regarding the pros and cons of taking L-Tryptophan. My partner has been taking a Total Amino Solution for the past two weeks  on advice of his naturopath (list of ingredients http://genesaliving.com/products/total-amino-solution/).

 

The daily dosage he takes contains  200 mg of L-Tryptophan. Is this considered a daily dosage quantity that might lead to Seratonin syndrome? Or is it a relatively small quantity overall? He read on the Mayo Clinic's site that if one is going to have Seratonin syndrome symptoms that they show up quickly (within hours) of taking the conficting anti-depressant and L-Tryptophan.

 

After reading this forum, I am wondering if he should stop taking the Total Amino Solutions supplement, even though he says he is feeling better from taking them. He is preparing to start 10% reduction on his Effexor prescription, and go down from 150 mg Effexor XR to 135 mg Effexor XR.

 

Your input?

[JanCarol]

You still around Loving?  I know it's been 5 months, but nobody answered this, and I see you've been around the site recently.  

 

How did your boyfriend do with his Total Amino?  Has he started his Effexor taper?

 

My first thought upon looking at this product, was that it was totally scattergun - if you shoot a hundred pellets of shot out of a shotgun, you're going to hit something.  It might help, but it is harder to control, more difficult to know what is working, and more difficult to control side effects.

 

It is, pardon my saying so, an ignorant approach - someone who understands the cascades of these aminos would recommend specific ones for specific reasons, not just throw them all at the target in one product and see if enough hit to get good effect.  Plus it looks expensive!  How many tablets a day of these aminos?  I'm going to your thread to see if I can find out more.