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On not investing in drama - yours or other people's


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#1 dalsaan

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:07 PM

One thing I have learnt through withdrawal is that investing in drama – any situation that is shot through with heavy emotional investments – has physiological implications.  Drama sits in my body and triggers responses by my nervous system and thus exacerbates or sets off withdrawal symptoms.  Drama is not good for people like us.
 
The drama can be my own, for example when I am catastrophising about something.   Alternatively, it can be someone else’s drama that we buy into. 
 
We have the capacity to manage our investment in drama – we choose what we focus on, invest in, give great significance to etc.  
 
I see people inviting others into drama on this website.   It becomes visible when it becomes a pattern.   The pattern usually looks like this – catastrophic declarations followed by disengagement -a stepping back or silence on the part of the original poster.   The disengagement is the invitation for others to participate in the drama of it all by expressing concern, asking the poster to make contact, questioning what’s happening, sharing their own despair etc.
 
When this happens over and again the original poster is getting something out of it and other members have become complicit in the drama.  This is a form of codependency that is not healthy for the individual participants or the community as a whole.   Healthy support is encouraged, investing in drama and developing codependent relationships is not.
 
Take responsibility for your wellbeing and the wellbeing of this community and think about whether you are investing in drama.  I'm not asking people to deny their suffering but you can acknowledge something without ramping up the intensity by being melodramatic.
 
Dalsaan


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#2 Altostrata

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 09:57 AM

Excellent topic, dalsaan.
 
It's true, when you focus on the more vivid, dramatic pain, it tends to become larger and larger, overshadowing the more subtle good things that happen. Posting about it here repeatedly also reinforces the memory and the sensation.
 
To aid healing, we must re-educate ourselves to also incorporate into our thinking and our bodies those moments of grace or insight or fleeting, simple pleasures such as seeing a kitten or a beautiful tree.
 
Those in our relationships, including those we have here in this community, can help us to take care of ourselves by being sympathetic to the pain but also remind us to stay in the moment, this too shall pass, we also feel glimmers and windows of relief.
 
Everyone working on self-care and self-soothing is especially important for those who are experiencing acute symptoms or severe symptoms that are prolonged. We all need to become Zen masters, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. This helps us put pain in its place, it does not define our entire existence.
 
Since so many do not have beneficial supportive relationships in their real lives, let's try and move towards healthy relationships here, supportive but no co-dependent, sympathetic but not reinforcing people's worst habits of thinking. It's so important that individually and as a group, we practice self-care and self-soothing.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#3 Skyler

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:15 PM

Thank-you Dalsaan, that was very well put.  Alto, when we dramatize pain we do give it more power. You are absolutely correct about this.

 

About two weeks back, there was a post on the benzo forum that underscored another effect of preponderant negativity.  I had recommended a hold of several months followed by a slow taper. The member said there did not seem to be much point, as so few people have a positive outcome regardless of the steps they take.  

 

When posters focus almost exclusively on how badly they feel, with no discussion of taper specifics.. how fast, when was the latest reduction, etc., it can seem like few measures have a positive effect.  My own story is a testament to how untrue this is... and I was very dispirited at the time. Maybe those who feel Dalsaan's words apply to them will try to be more comprehensive... if you jerked your doses around (repeated adjustments up and down), tapered at an accelerated percentage, and did not hold when advice this advice was given by the mods, please fess up.

 

This forum is a shared space, and we need to be mindful of those whose decision on how to taper might rest on our stories.

 

Skyler


As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 


#4 Wildflower0214

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 10:46 AM

One thing I have learnt through withdrawal is that investing in drama – any situation that is shot through with heavy emotional investments – has physiological implications. Drama sits in my body and triggers responses by my nervous system and thus exacerbates or sets off withdrawal symptoms. Drama is not good for people like us.

The drama can be my own, for example when I am catastrophising about something. Alternatively, it can be someone else’s drama that we buy into.

We have the capacity to manage our investment in drama – we choose what we focus on, invest in, give great significance to etc.

I see people inviting others into drama on this website. It becomes visible when it becomes a pattern. The pattern usually looks like this – catastrophic declarations followed by disengagement -a stepping back or silence on the part of the original poster. The disengagement is the invitation for others to participate in the drama of it all by expressing concern, asking the poster to make contact, questioning what’s happening, sharing their own despair etc.

When this happens over and again the original poster is getting something out of it and other members have become complicit in the drama. This is a form of codependency that is not healthy for the individual participants or the community as a whole. Healthy support is encouraged, investing in drama and developing codependent relationships is not.

Take responsibility for your wellbeing and the wellbeing of this community and think about whether you are investing in drama. I'm not asking people to deny their suffering but you can acknowledge something without ramping up the intensity by being melodramatic.

Dalsaan

This is one of the best quotes I have read on this forum. If I knew how to post it under best of SA, I would. Someone needs to.

I have made this mistake. I have blown my own situation out of proportion, and it has done nothing but cause more anxiety for me.

And, I have also invested in other people's drama, and in my concern for them I ended up putting myself in a very vulnerable position emotionally and allowed myself to get sucked into the abyss with them. All of this did nothing but ramp up my own anxiety and CNS instability. Not anymore, I refuse to put myself in this position again, not for anyone.

I think establishing healthy boundaries is probably one of the most important ways we can help ourselves through recovery.
2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....
5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

#5 mammaP

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 02:19 PM

Excellent topic and posts. It is so easy when you are suffering to get together with others who understand and suffer the same but the danger is that it becomes all consuming and any positive aspects of life are pushed out.  It's important to step away from the boards and do some real life things,however small. It's also important to accept that improvement is happening even if still suffering. We can see people improving as time goes by, but they can't see it or don't acknowledge it. It is great for us when we see someone saying they have done something new, or have felt a bit better, even slightly. To see someone who is progressing and being positive is heartwarming. So much negativity is not good for anyone, and posts are read by many more non members than members. They may come desperate to find help and reassurance and only see a page of negative threads which reinforce their fear that they will never improve, when in fact there are some great improvements made that are not talked about.

 

 I love Alto's 'change the channel' topic and found that putting it into practice helps me a great deal http://survivinganti...itive-symptoms/ 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#6 freespirit

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 02:57 PM

Great posts on this thread. Thanks for starting the ball rolling on this Dalsaan. It has sure made me reflect a lot.

 

I'm not sure that being invested in drama is actually good for anyone, let alone those of us in wd. I can see aspects of that throughout my work life and one of the many reasons I ended up in burnout. I've kept waiting for the patience I used to have to return...but it hasn't around this aspect. In a way, I'm thankful..because it has prevented me from being pulled back into the kinds of situations I used to be involved in.

 

I've lived a lot in my own little and big dramas too...making small things into large things..and I'm certain, drove people around me crazy with it all.

 

My leanings these days are much more towards what makes me happy or peaceful. I prefer dwelling on those things, rather than how terrible wd has been or what might happen down the road. I agree with mamma p about the importance of stepping back from the boards and doing things in ones life. I find I feel better when I spend less time on here and more time directly in my life.


Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet. Currently having issues with certain foods, especially high histamine.

Current Medications: Synthroid 37.5 mg

Current Supplements:B complex, Vitamin C, D, K2, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium lotion or epsom salts bath daily.

What has helped me most: qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivinganti...it/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“When you recover or discover something that nourishes your soul and brings joy, care enough about yourself to make room for it in your life.”

~Jean Shinoda Bolen


 

 


#7 dalsaan

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:22 PM

I agree that's investing in drama isn't good for anyone but for those of us with a nervous system that has been through the wringer, its a significant punishment.   I think lots of people do it, within the contexts of withdrawal and outside of it.  I'd go as far as to say it can become a habitual way of being - normalised, familiar, done with little consciousness.   

 

I think it meets some need and people should consider what this might be if they find themselves investing in drama.  It could be that participating in drama make people feel more significant, more important, more connected more ...???

 

Dalsaan


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#8 Pugknows

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:12 PM

I don't believe anyone on this forum intentionally draws people into their "drama" to get a reaction or try to inflict harm on others.

To those of you who find yourselves vulnerable and shaken by reading posts of people's pain, or by getting involved with someone who was at their lowest point, perhaps you should limit your participation on the forum to reading and posting on threads you know to be "safe." You have all been around long enough to easily find threads written by people who are more accepting of this process and less fearful than others. Rather than put yourselves in harm's way, or chastise people who are expressing themselves honestly during a time of deep pain, perhaps you should remove yourselves from the situation and let others who are stronger step in and try to comfort those who are in trouble.

There is always more than one solution to every problem. Requesting that people not engage others in their drama or telling them to "just get a grip" or "learn to self-soothe" is not a solution, nor is it even helpful advice. It's not even compassionate.

I will miss the friendships I have made on this forum, but I don't share the attitudes of the staff and it's time I get my own grip and self-soothe a different way. My wish is that we all find our own paths to healing as comfortably as is humanly possible without recriminations when we find ourselves weakened by these debilitating symptoms and seeking a virtual hug from Internet strangers at our lowest points.

God bless you all on your individual roads to recovery.

Pug
January 2012 - Prescribed 900mg gabapentin and 30mg Norco for lower lumber spinal stenosis pain.
September 2013 - Spinal fusion surgery, 6 levels. Hospital ramped up meds 1500mg gabapentin, 100mg Norco, 80mg Oxycontin, 25mg Fentanyl patch.
January 2014 - Sever nausea daily and with back pain every 4 hours. 2 trips to ER. First endoscopy found ulcer. Treated with Sucralfate and PPI. Second endo in May found no ulcers. Doctors said it was the opiates causing the nausea. CT'd Oxycontin, Fentanyl patch.
July 2014 - Lost 48 lbs. due to not eating because of severe nausea. GP prescribed Prozac 20mg and Ativan 2mg prn. Tried for 4 days, quit. Two week followup GP said keep taking Prozac. 4 days, quit again. Ativan taken rarely prn for anxiety and appetite.
August 2014 - Went to detox. Off opiates. Still nauseous, helmet head, drugged feeling. Doctor CT'd gabapentin. Ended up in ER. Found 2 gallstones. Gabapentin reinstated at 900mg. Tried botched up and down taper to get off Gabapentin. No tapering advice from doctor. Said to just CT again.
September 2014 - Coded on table during gallbladder surgery. Developed liver biloma due to CPR by doctor. Had bile bulb inserted for 2 wks to drain.
October 2014 - Gallbladder removed. Still nauseous, 3am cortisol surging, drugged helmet head, vertigo, breathlessness, whooshing head, heart palps.
November 8th, 2014 - CT'd gabapentin suggested by family and 4 different doctors. Was told no withdrawal is associated with gabapentin. Have been in hell ever since. No windows, just one big tsunami every day with same symptoms for 4 months.
December 26, 2014 - Found SA. At least I know I'm not insane. My family thinks I'm doing this to myself. Akathesia has become unbearable.
March 10, 2015 - In absolute daily hell with no relief. Currently taking magnesium 200mg before bedtime.

#9 pocketnurse

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:20 PM

I am going to take this advice in to work with me this morning and keep it  t the forefront of my mind. I find my work toxic right now (not sure if it really is or if it is my belief that it is). Too many of other peoples battles and bitchfests have such a negative impact on me right now. 

 

When I go in to my dreaded place of work this morning I am going to take you guys with me (in a virtual way lol), you give me strength and remind me that I am not alone and I am so very grateful to you .

 

Hope everyone has a calm and peaceful day today whatever they are doing.

 

Much love

 

PN x



#10 Altostrata

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:05 PM

....

To those of you who find yourselves vulnerable and shaken by reading posts of people's pain, or by getting involved with someone who was at their lowest point, perhaps you should limit your participation on the forum to reading and posting on threads you know to be "safe."

.....

 

This is excellent advice.

 

I don't believe anyone on this forum intentionally draws people into their "drama" to get a reaction or try to inflict harm on others.

To those of you who find yourselves vulnerable and shaken by reading posts of people's pain, or by getting involved with someone who was at their lowest point, perhaps you should limit your participation on the forum to reading and posting on threads you know to be "safe." You have all been around long enough to easily find threads written by people who are more accepting of this process and less fearful than others. Rather than put yourselves in harm's way, or chastise people who are expressing themselves honestly during a time of deep pain, perhaps you should remove yourselves from the situation and let others who are stronger step in and try to comfort those who are in trouble.

There is always more than one solution to every problem. Requesting that people not engage others in their drama or telling them to "just get a grip" or "learn to self-soothe" is not a solution, nor is it even helpful advice. It's not even compassionate.

I will miss the friendships I have made on this forum, but I don't share the attitudes of the staff and it's time I get my own grip and self-soothe a different way. My wish is that we all find our own paths to healing as comfortably as is humanly possible without recriminations when we find ourselves weakened by these debilitating symptoms and seeking a virtual hug from Internet strangers at our lowest points.

God bless you all on your individual roads to recovery.

Pug

 

Pugknows, what do you think the attitude of the staff is? We provide compassionate support every day to hundreds of people.

 

However, since we have an overview of everyone's posts, we see some individual patterns that are destructive to the community and to the individuals themselves. Generally, this is manifested as dramatization or catastrophization. We really have no choice but to try to bring the person back to earth, for their own good and the good of everyone else.

 

The fact is, there are many people here who never "learned to self-soothe," and that is what got them into a cycle of psychiatric care and helplessness. "Learning to self-soothe" is essential for those who tend to make themselves worse by exaggerating their symptoms. "Learning to self-soothe" is empowering for those who continue to cast themselves as victims. It is a pathway to autonomy.

 

We cannot ethically or morally reinforce self-destructive behavior. We're about healing here, not co-dependency.

 

Very sorry you do not see this the same way.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#11 Adagiooo

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:19 PM

I don't believe anyone on this forum intentionally draws people into their "drama" to get a reaction or try to inflict harm on others.
To those of you who find yourselves vulnerable and shaken by reading posts of people's pain, or by getting involved with someone who was at their lowest point, perhaps you should limit your participation on the forum to reading and posting on threads you know to be "safe." You have all been around long enough to easily find threads written by people who are more accepting of this process and less fearful than others. Rather than put yourselves in harm's way, or chastise people who are expressing themselves honestly during a time of deep pain, perhaps you should remove yourselves from the situation and let others who are stronger step in and try to comfort those who are in trouble.
There is always more than one solution to every problem. Requesting that people not engage others in their drama or telling them to "just get a grip" or "learn to self-soothe" is not a solution, nor is it even helpful advice. It's not even compassionate.
I will miss the friendships I have made on this forum, but I don't share the attitudes of the staff and it's time I get my own grip and self-soothe a different way. My wish is that we all find our own paths to healing as comfortably as is humanly possible without recriminations when we find ourselves weakened by these debilitating symptoms and seeking a virtual hug from Internet strangers at our lowest points.
God bless you all on your individual roads to recovery.
Pug


I agree with every word you wrote Pug. In addition I think the "pattern" of drama Dalsaan described is simply not always the case. I know there are times when I post something about me suffering to have a record of what I'm goi g through (and I thought it was ok to do so on this site). Then I "step back" because I am suffering too much to even post again for a time. Not everyone has the energy or wellness to post every day, or even every week. Some of us are just too sick. And yes, after this post I probably will not post anything for a while.

So maybe Dalsaan that is your perception of things, but maybe you just got it wrong.

It seems to me there is as distinct lack of compassion creeping into the site. Maybe those who are further along in their healing are forgetting what it was like to be so sick all you can think about (because of the drugs) is ending things. And all you can do, because of a lack of energy is sit and stare at a screen.

Does one have to be at a certain level if wellness to participate on this site? And "inviting people into their drama!?!?" Withdrawal IS drama. Almost everything posted on this site has some level of drama attached to it.

And I reiterate that not everyone is well enough to post frequently. My personal experience is that once I have posted about how I am feeling, which is pretty sh*tty, I don't have the energy to even come back and post for at least a few days.

Overall this is a thread that lacks compassion and smacks of an "I got mine so you get yours" kind of a thing. Disgusted!
2001-04 Polypharmacy to include Paxil,Celexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Depakote, Ambien, Geodon, Valium, Ativan, Haldol
03/04-11/04 Abilify
11/04-05/07 CT Abilify Non symptomatic
6/07 took Valium, began to experience altered reality and physical symptoms of withdrawal from Valium.
07/08. Abilify 2 mg, 12/08 Abilify 1 mg, 03/09 Abilify 0 mg, 03/08-06/11Altered reality but fully functional
10/12 hospitalized, Invega Depot, 2 shots discontinued, severe insomnia
6/14-10/14 flexeril, discontinued, developed insomnia; 10/14 10 mg Doxepin I week, no help with insomnia; 10/14 Remeron for two days, paradoxical reaction
Present Risperdal 1mg, clonazepam 2 mg, Restoril 15 mg. Went from .5 to 1 to 1.5 to 2mg of clonazepam in 2014. Also in 2014, tapered from 2 mg risperdal to 1.5 (fairly slowly but still too fast) and had to up dose back to 2 mg. Got liquid risperdal and started from 2 mg again.

#12 Altostrata

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:30 PM

No, a pattern of drama is not always the case. The staff does not assume everyone is dramatizing. You may notice not everyone gets the same advice.

 

As the site has grown larger, we have more and more people. Among them are a number of people in the habit of dramatizing -- a small number, but it's growing with the rest of the site. These people take up a great deal of moderator effort, do not seem to read what the moderators post, and periodically cause an uproar.

 

They do not seem to make any progress in either learning how to deal with their symptoms or getting any kind of perspective on healing. They are stuck in drama.

 

From the staff's point of view, the individuals in this small group stand out. Their behavior pattern is clear.

 

Because this behavior is disruptive to the entire community -- and a very bad model for new members -- the staff has had to become more directive in responding to these individuals. This site does not exist to publish self-destructive drama. We will do our best to channel it into more constructive activities, or we will invite the person to leave.

 

If you wish to support those individuals yourself, you are free to do so in any way you wish. You might want to give them your e-mail address or phone number. If you wish to find a place where you will receive unconditional support for any online behavior you wish to post, good luck -- there's a big Internet out there, perhaps you'll find it elsewhere.

 

If you feel you can provide better support than our current moderators, please send me a pm and I'll put you on the staff.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#13 peggy

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:44 PM

Great topic Dalsaan and well articulated.

 

I think that the more we understand about neuroplasiticity the more important this becomes. Our thoughts wire our brain and to lay the foundations for solid recovery I have discovered that checking my thoughts constantly (as best as I can) helps to model my brain in  a healthier way.  I understand that at the moment that is easy for me to do because I am not suffering in any way, but my hope is that the more I check my thoughts and keep them away from the negative the more chance i have of continuing my taper with no problems.


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg


#14 Adagiooo

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:53 PM

Alto, it seems to me some people are allowed to express their despair and suffering while others are not.

I have never come on this site seeking unconditional support for anything. If I were well enough to be a moderator I would surely do so.

And it is a shame that we cannot express our disagreement with a moderatorator's post without being "invited" to find support elsewhere. I have found some of the moderators on this site to be informative and supportive, but when I disagree with what a moderator has written I believe I should have the right to express that. Or is that not the case on SA?
2001-04 Polypharmacy to include Paxil,Celexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Depakote, Ambien, Geodon, Valium, Ativan, Haldol
03/04-11/04 Abilify
11/04-05/07 CT Abilify Non symptomatic
6/07 took Valium, began to experience altered reality and physical symptoms of withdrawal from Valium.
07/08. Abilify 2 mg, 12/08 Abilify 1 mg, 03/09 Abilify 0 mg, 03/08-06/11Altered reality but fully functional
10/12 hospitalized, Invega Depot, 2 shots discontinued, severe insomnia
6/14-10/14 flexeril, discontinued, developed insomnia; 10/14 10 mg Doxepin I week, no help with insomnia; 10/14 Remeron for two days, paradoxical reaction
Present Risperdal 1mg, clonazepam 2 mg, Restoril 15 mg. Went from .5 to 1 to 1.5 to 2mg of clonazepam in 2014. Also in 2014, tapered from 2 mg risperdal to 1.5 (fairly slowly but still too fast) and had to up dose back to 2 mg. Got liquid risperdal and started from 2 mg again.

#15 manymoretodays

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:57 PM

Can drama be discerned?  Like if I decide what kind of drama is helpful for me..........then it is okay?  And when it becomes harmful in some manner then I will step away from it?  With no judgement?

 

I am just practicing re patterning my thoughts.


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once?, Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= approx. 1200/day. Magnesium citrate orally,diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C and E.  B12, melatonin 3mcg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=300 mcg. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.

 


#16 Altostrata

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:21 PM

Yes, some people are being treated differently than others. That is because they behave differently than others, in a self-harming, disruptive fashion with no change in attitude or behavior over a long time. From the vantage point of the mods, the dysfunctional behavior pattern is readily discernible after some hundreds of posts.

 

I have a friend in San Francisco, a psychotherapist who specializes in treating panic and anxiety. (She is a very anxious person herself.) She's been doing this for many years. I asked her the most common problem she sees. She said "some people never learned how to self-soothe."

 

If you want to live without psychiatric drugs, you need to learn to manage your symptoms with non-drug methods. This is a necessity for anyone on this site. It means managing the self-destructive patterns that led you to psychiatric care as well as withdrawal symptoms. Even people who are suffering terribly can do this, I've seen it. It doesn't mean symptoms go away. It means your attitude towards them changes, you understand your situation, you do what needs to be done to take care of yourself as best you can.

 

We certainly can identify those who, after a good long while, repeatedly create episodes of drama and show no change in attitude towards taking care of themselves. In all good conscience, the staff cannot reinforce self-destructive behavior.

 

Any individual member may provide support to that person as it moves you. However, as dalsaan said in her initial post, investing in someone else's drama may be stressful for you -- you're not taking care of yourself -- and, while you think you're helping, you're perpetuating the person's self-injury. The person will never change as long as the self-destructive behavior is being rewarded with sympathy.

 

Which, I think, is a good description of co-dependency. It's up to you individually to decide if what you're seeing is drama and how much you want to get involved.

 

If you feel you can provide unconditional support to any member of this site, no matter the person's behavior, please contact me and I'll make you a moderator. Otherwise, you'll have to accept it that we're doing the best we can.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#17 Adagiooo

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:31 PM

Alto, i don't read everyone's posts but I would venture a guess that no one on here is asking for unconditional support.

I also noted in my last post that if I were well enough to do so I would definitely become a moderator.
2001-04 Polypharmacy to include Paxil,Celexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Depakote, Ambien, Geodon, Valium, Ativan, Haldol
03/04-11/04 Abilify
11/04-05/07 CT Abilify Non symptomatic
6/07 took Valium, began to experience altered reality and physical symptoms of withdrawal from Valium.
07/08. Abilify 2 mg, 12/08 Abilify 1 mg, 03/09 Abilify 0 mg, 03/08-06/11Altered reality but fully functional
10/12 hospitalized, Invega Depot, 2 shots discontinued, severe insomnia
6/14-10/14 flexeril, discontinued, developed insomnia; 10/14 10 mg Doxepin I week, no help with insomnia; 10/14 Remeron for two days, paradoxical reaction
Present Risperdal 1mg, clonazepam 2 mg, Restoril 15 mg. Went from .5 to 1 to 1.5 to 2mg of clonazepam in 2014. Also in 2014, tapered from 2 mg risperdal to 1.5 (fairly slowly but still too fast) and had to up dose back to 2 mg. Got liquid risperdal and started from 2 mg again.

#18 Altostrata

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:51 PM

I appreciate that, Adagiooo. If you were able, I would be happy to have you as a moderator.

 

If anyone reading this was on Paxilprogress, you may recall how they dealt with this very same issue. To reduce all the moaning and groaning, they decided there is no such thing as protracted withdrawal syndrome and sent all "victims" to a Paxilprogress forum for online Cognitive Behavior Therapy.

 

They did not permit the type of repeated drama I've been describing, at all. As soon as a new member started complaining, they were told they were "catastrophizing" and off to the CBT forum they went. If they didn't like that, they were banned. (I was hesitant to use the term "catastrophizing" here but it actually describes a certain type of "drama" behavior very well.)

 

A lot of people were banned from Paxilprogress. Anyone who protested that protracted withdrawal syndrome was real was banned.

 

People are very, very rarely banned here. On SA, we're drawing the line at certain "drama" behaviors, which I've described in detail. People get lots of warnings. You may disagree with this conditional policy all you like. It is not going to change. Left unchecked, "drama" will degrade this site.

 

If a staff member posts in a person's Intro topic to guide that person away from drama, this is important to remember: It's not about you.

 

I think the accusation that the staff here is unsympathetic is unfounded. However, if you wish to provide the sympathy you feel is lacking, go ahead.


Edited by Altostrata, 22 September 2015 - 04:06 PM.
added "victims"

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#19 JanCarol

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 04:32 PM

This is an awesome post, Dalsaan, and excellent discussion.

 

What some people do not recognize as "dramatic" or "co-dependant" - may be because usually these behaviours are developed early on as a coping mechanism.  These behaviours may be what started a person on the drugs to begin with!  I know this is true for me.

 

If I were to refer to an infant, the infant learns to get attention for its discomfort by crying, and then escalates it into screaming if that doesn't work.

 

In parallel, as we grow into adults, we learn that this is no longer an effective strategy.  However, there are a number of behaviours that people adopt for survival.  This is an example only, not directed at anyone in particular.

 

I had an ex-husband who, was so traumatized, that any time he thought that there would be a conflict, he would lie and say what the people wanted to hear.  I was at a dinner with 3 of the people he lied to, and when we compared stories, it was shocking to see how easily he lied - and how easily he was believed.  But I am not angry or upset with him for this, because he was so afraid of conflict that this was his main coping mechanism.  And he didn't get caught until after his death, when the 3 wives started talking and sharing stories.  So, in his case, except for the horrible way he ended his life - his coping mechanism was successful until the day he died.  He even lied to psychiatrists and 3rd wife, indicating that he was not suicidal.  Then he did it.  This example is the very definition of "passive aggressive."

 

Additionally, there are people - often I see this on facebook - who will post something cryptic or negative like, "Life sucks, I hate it when this happens."  This is a passive aggressive way to get attention to the problem - they are begging for someone to say, "oh honey, what's wrong?" and then try and find someone to be codependant with them in their misery.

 

Here in SA, it's more subtle than that.  Suicide threats often send the staff scrambling (did you know we pay attention to them?  we do), threats of self harm, threats of leaving ("I don't feel welcome here, I'm just gonna leave") are often not what they seem - instead they are coping and survival mechanisms.  Codependant, or passive aggressive ways of getting attention, because then the community rallies around them and, for a short time, they feel warm and loved and in control - until the next thing comes along.  Or, as Dalsaan noted, they leave the site and sulk, so that the next time they check their computer, they are filled with PM's and posts of "are you okay?  please come back?"

 

It takes at least 2 to be codependant.  And on the internet, it can happen in clusters.

 

Sometimes, as a mod, I have to say some scary things.  It's not easy (I'm not the only one).  But for the most part I try to provide information in a caring and supportive way that doesn't tear down the person, their beliefs, their practices, or even their decisions.  

 

My thoughts go to the Flintstones, there was a character named Schleprock, who always had a black cloud over his head, and cried, "wowsy, wowsy woo woo."  In the cartoon, he was pretty much shunned.  But in Pooh, Eeyore also carried a black cloud of doom and gloom and the worst things that could possibly happen.  But it was balanced by Pooh's simple optimism, Piglets efforts, Owl's wise book-learning, and Kanga's practicality.  

 

I think we are not saying you can't express your hard times.  But to live as Eeyore can become a burden to the community, and to collect Eeyores and Schleprocks around you for  "misery loves company" does a disservice to the community at large.

 

I agree with Alto - it is vital that we all learn to self soothe - not depend on the kind words of others to pull us out of our funk.  Of course, of course, of course, there is a learning curve, and not everyone will be able to do this when in the deepest throes of symptoms.  Of course, it helps to hear someone say, "yes, I used to feel that way, too."  But it is vitally important to learn to recognize when people say, "It will get better, it takes time."  We mean it.  And when this is dismissed, again and again, the mods get burned out by saying the same thing over and over again.

 

That's why Alto wrote "Change the Channel."  And why Dalsaan started this thread.  We have an amazing dynamic community - we can talk about things here that nobody else in our life will understand.  There are others - many others - who have passed this way before.

 

But imagine, as Brass says, when a newbie comes to the site, and all he sees are suicide threats, and commiseration, and wowsy wowsy woo woo.  What the newbie wants is a new way, recognition that there are solutions, possibilities, hope for change.  To learn and know that you, she, he, we can get better.

 

My father always said, "In order to get out of a hole, you must first stop digging it."

 

When you keep digging your misery hole, and invite others to come and dig with you - and they will come! - you are not helping yourself, you are not helping them (and those of you who join in are not helping either), and you are not helping the community.

 

Sometimes, certainly, it helps to say, "THIS SUCKS!" or "THIS HURTS" or "I'M SO TIRED!" but I offer the challenge - what is next?  This hurts, so I think I will try some yoga.  This sucks, so I will listen to a  meditation video.  I'm so tired, so I need to get away from the computer at night.  It's fine to express your pain, your misery, your difficulties - but please, I recommend you also post:  what are you going to DO about it?  (because really, this is the internet - nobody else can do it for you).


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#20 dalsaan

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 05:59 PM

I agree this is a coping mechanism for many people - it was from me and it relates to early childhood trauma.   I found this checklist that people have used to inventory their relationships and behaviours, I think it might be useful - https://ippkmc.wordp...endent-no-more/

 

Dalsaan


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#21 Altostrata

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 03:58 PM

I've always found this helpful in conceptualizing dysfunctional relationships: The Karpman Drama Triangle, which allows for 3 roles -- Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor.
 
A person has a basic self-image identified with one of the roles, but can take on any role depending on the circumstances.
 
There are many good articles about this. Here's one by therapist Lynne Forest The Three Faces of Victim – An Overview of the Drama Triangle...
 
This is the image she uses:

 

forrest_drama_triangle.gif

 

The three roles are frequently used to describe relationships with alcoholics, addicts, abusers, and other troubled situations in which people frequently get entangled. (Generally, the Rescuer is called the enabler or co-dependent.) Being trapped in the roles of the triangle is unhealthy for all concerned.

Lack of boundaries plays a huge part in all the roles. One of the greatest challenges in moderating this site is avoiding being cast in any of the roles, particularly Rescuer. The staff needs to be clear-eyed and compassionate (Lynne Forrest calls this the Observer) and give helpful information, but not get embroiled in any drama that might be taking place on the site. That leads to burnout.

 

A Rescuer might feel virtuous, heroic, powerful, or essential -- that's what keeps him or her in the unhealthy relationship -- but loses the capacity to grow as a person. The influence of the Rescuer on the Victim (an addict, for example) is equally destructive, keeping the Victim in a cycle of neediness or dependency.

 

When the relationship becomes unstable, e.g. the Victim stays out all night drinking, the Rescuer might switch to the Persecutor and yell at the Victim. Or, the Victim might switch to the Persecutor and beat up the Rescuer. Then, the Victim/Persecutor might become remorseful and become the Rescuer, the former Rescuer now becoming the sobbing Victim. Next day, the cycle resumes.

 

Here are a bunch of papers by Dr. Karpman http://www.karpmandr...ticle_only.html


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#22 freespirit

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 04:29 PM

I'm finding all of these very helpful reminders...when I first read Dalsaan's post, I replaced the word drama with trauma. I suspect many of us have some level of trauma underneath the behaviors in question. Changing the word to trauma made it less loaded for me, and helped me to get underneath. It aided me in seeing how I am feeding old traumas, when I step into more chaotic situations, ones where I know that nothing I say is likely to make a difference. Still trying to fix old family dynamics.

 

We can still have compassion for the suffering someone is clearly in, but not choose to add to it over the long term.

 

As I said to Ali, we all need at times, someone to hold a mirror up to remind us of our own inherent goodness and strengths. It's okay I think that we receive that from each other. But in the end, it's up to us to look for those things within ourselves too. And internet or not, there is no one else that can ultimately do that for another person. Other people can be signposts, but we need to find our own journeys.

 

There are places where the wisest thing is staying out of the fray and leaning the mind away from terrible suffering. That's self-compassion. We don't need to add to our own suffering.

 

A long time ago, I did some training with Stephen Gilligan, who was then a hypnotherapist. His question to clients when they come in was not, "what do you want?". It was "what kind of life are you willing to responsible for?" Those can be very radically different things. In my experience, I met many people who knew how to self-soothe, but refused to do it, in favor of putting that responsibility on to someone else--family, friends, therapist, strangers. But what do you do when that person walks away, dies, is unavailable, having a bad day? You are then left with yourself, minus ways to provide self-care and compassion.

 

Without the 100 things that Dalsaan talks about, people most likely will reach for the big things...which are likely to result in disaster for a nervous system already on overload. To me, it's hard to imagine that one can get through wd or through life without bouncing from pillar to post, without those small things.


Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet. Currently having issues with certain foods, especially high histamine.

Current Medications: Synthroid 37.5 mg

Current Supplements:B complex, Vitamin C, D, K2, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium lotion or epsom salts bath daily.

What has helped me most: qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivinganti...it/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“When you recover or discover something that nourishes your soul and brings joy, care enough about yourself to make room for it in your life.”

~Jean Shinoda Bolen


 

 


#23 ang

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:54 AM

Alto, it seems to me some people are allowed to express their despair and suffering while others are not.

I have never come on this site seeking unconditional support for anything. If I were well enough to be a moderator I would surely do so.

And it is a shame that we cannot express our disagreement with a moderatorator's post without being "invited" to find support elsewhere. I have found some of the moderators on this site to be informative and supportive, but when I disagree with what a moderator has written I believe I should have the right to express that. Or is that not the case on SA?

I have been invited to leave too,   so now I wonder am I one of those small minority that continue to catastrophize?   I dont know I have been pretty unwell a lot of the time, so  I dont know, I have only written here a couple of times, in the last week,  and maybe not for a week or so before that.  I dont know what the rumble is all about?  I feel like I have fallen into some argument I didnt know about, and have no desire to know about, I just like Pugknows posts,   she is so funny, even in depths of despair.... we all need laughter............ I guess my problem is when people start to become psychiatrists/psychologists, I worry.  I dont want a psychiatrist or a psychologist, I want a friend. A friend who pulls me up when I am down, with encouragement, and a friend I can encourage, when they are down....the only people who understand this are fellow sufferers, and I think they are all my friends.   I dont want someone telling me if  you disagree with me, go away and dont come back.....  that sounds too much like the psychiatric profession I am damn escaping from. 

.  I dont care, who reads my posts, I dont write them with an intention of bringing more people to the site, I write them for me.  I am happy if the mediators decide to not let non members see my posts, if they are too sad.   I agree with this thread, and the discussion,   I have read threads where very good advice has been given by the moderators, a bit of tough love, doesnt hurt sometimes, and yes it has made me think deeper..........................  but surely that doesnt mean we all have to follow this practice, if it doesnt ring true for us?

Altos quote  ""The fact is, there are many people here who never "learned to self-soothe,"      ""and that is what got them into a cycle of psychiatric care and helplessness. "  that is an assumption.  Nothing is fact...............

Well that wasnt how I got into a cycle of psychiatric care.............   I dont know about others........  I think a lot of us just innocently trusted our doctors, or our families,   I know, I made a big mistake.....................   And I dont intend to write any more on the subject...........    I will go back to reading happier news.


1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.


#24 Altostrata

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:44 PM

Who invited you to leave, ang?

 

...

If a staff member posts in a person's Intro topic to guide that person away from drama, this is important to remember: It's not about you.

...

 

Unless a post is addressed to you, it's not about you. That's a boundary. Don't borrow someone else's problem to make a Victim of yourself and create more drama of which you are the star.

 

If you feel threatened by a lack of support here for drama, you need to look closely at the Drama Triangle above and give some thought to why you are attracted to drama, create drama, or are attached to any of the roles of Victim, Rescuer, or Persecutor.

 

Just about everybody has habits of thinking that tend to trap them in one of the three roles. Growth depends on recognizing your own tendencies and working to get beyond them.

 

Drama is not a healthy lifestyle.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#25 apace41

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 04:56 AM

Wow!  What an awesome thread and discussion.  Interesting in timing for me as well because I was listening to a podcast on Peter Breggin's weekly show with Jeanne Stolzer who is an expert in attachment issues and their affect on, among other things, anxiety.  I think a lot of these issues regarding self-soothing and ability to deal with stress on one's own are derivative of the Western approach to child-rearing and lack of formation of proper attachment.  Lack of attachment creates lack of a sense of safety, results in parental guilt and overcompensation and creates an environment in which children are not made to feel "self secure" but are instead overprotected by parents creating what is essentially a co-dependent parent/child relationship.  This yields dramatic behavior from the child that reinforces the wrong attitudes.  I believe strongly this is what led me down the path of anxiety and into the world of benzos and SSRIs.  Add to that an early death of both my parents and no opportunity for adult discussion of the issues and you get.... ME!  For better and for worse.  :blink:

 

I don't envy the job of the mods.  They see a lot more than those of us that casually (or not so casually) come on the site and see what we want when we want.  Keeping this site as a place this safe and healthy is a really big job and I appreciate the fact that some time gentle (and not-so-gentle) reminders are necessary to avoid having it turn into a free-for-all. 

 

At the end of the day, many of us are suffering and in pain and, as has been all to well documented, not getting support at home from significant others who can't or don't want to understand what we are going through and, furthermore, not getting support from a medical community that turns a blind eye to the issues that are being faced.  It is, therefore, understandable that some will turn to this site, where others are in the same general place, and seek compassion and comfort. It is a fine line when that need for compassion and comfort crosses into drama and unhealthy co-dependency.  I don't believe that I am in a position to make that call but, as in society generally, there must be a world order and we need rules and limits, and, as such, I place trust and support in Alto and the mods to draw that line in a place that works for the community at large.

 

I would note that I was NOT generally known as a "brown-noser" going through school and don't think I am doing that here, however, who knows whether these drugs have altered me in THAT was as well.  Anyone who wants to discuss it can meet me on the playground at recess!!!!!  :lol:

 

I hope all are improving, even if slightly, and, as Pug would say, "we are one day closer to healing, even if it's not the best of days."

 

Best,

 

Andy


Started Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg circa 2000; Sx Spring 2012. increased to .5 Clonazapam - no improvement; Started taper of K November 2012 (benzo sites said "taper benzo first"); increased Sert to100mg no improvement; Finished K microtaper in November 2014
Started Sertraline taper from 100mg in December 2014 by reducing to 75mg; Reduced to 62.5mg on January 1, 2015 and 50mg on February 1, 2015; Held at 50mg through April 5 when I got Rx for liquid Sertraline
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet on 10/5

Held through February with no noticeable change

March 2016 attempted to begin taper again but miscalculated into 1 week accidental updose to 32.5mg; dropped back to 25mg for 1 week; tapered to 22.5mg the following week; hit with symptoms and tried to stabilize between 22.5mg and 25mg.  Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy. Was dealing with horrible insomnia which had me sleeping once every other day.  Went back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016.  October 1 cut 4% to 24mg.  November 1 cut 8.3% to 22mg. December 1 cut 9% to 20mg.  Not great but functional. 2/1/17 cut 5% to 19mg.  Taking Spray-on Magnesium, Magnesium supplements, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Co-Q10, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine


#26 Altostrata

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:47 AM

Thank you, apace. I'm learning a lot from this thread, too.

 

I feel I need to bring up the issue of escalation here, too. We've all seen it. This happens when someone feels their efforts to get attention are not successful. They escalate their behavior, becoming ever more indignant or hostile. They insist on the focus of attention by picking a fight. Lots of drama!

 

In these situations, the staff may give warnings. The boundaries on this kind of behavior, described in What will get you warned or banned , have existed since this site began. Picking a fight with an admin or moderator is a bad idea anywhere.

 

Don't make a bid for attention by escalating, whatever drama you've fashioned is going to have a short run.

 

If you know you are a person who tends to dramatize and you know you have a habit of escalation, I can see why a topic about not investing in drama would be disturbing to you. If you have that sense of unease about this topic, that's a sign that you have an opportunity for learning and change, to become your better self.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#27 bluebalu86

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 01:19 AM

I know I am one of the people you refer to. I feel this is unjustified and unfair because I do my best to not be dramatic, to not catastrophize and to remain calm and cool-headed in the face of adversity. This site is my only support because I have nowhere else to turn to. I am also using my thread as a diary to list what's going on on a daily basis.

 

I have been told I post too often. I don't understand what's wrong with posting often. Some people post on a regular daily basis. I also try my best to support and encourage other members and post useful information and resources that I have found to help the whole community here. I feel the attitude towards me has been punitive, harsh and plain rude at times.

I am a kind, gentle and compassionate person and I feel like I don't deserve to be treated this way.

 

I also don't understand why you blocked the user Broken in his hour of need, when he needs support the most. I feel this was unnecessary and very inhumane. It all happened so fast that us, who want to support him, didn't even have the chance to exchange contact information with him. Now I have no way of reaching him because the only way I could contact him was this site.

 

I understand the good intentions behind this thread, and I agree there is a lot of useful information here for all of us to read and think about, but I feel you have taken things too far and this is bordering on plain cruelty. This is just my opinion, I know it won't make any difference.

 

Many members have been chased away from this site because of the rude attitude of people and who knows where they are now without support. There are many nice members willing to support others with kind and encouraging words. It is my opinion that if you don't want to support someone it's best not to write on his/her thread but to let others do that because everyone deserves help and support.

 

There are people who don't think someone is being dramatic but understand their pain and are willing to support that person. Let them be supported instead of banning them. That's how I feel about this situation. There has been a very cold and hostile vibe on the site recently, many members in bad condition were banished and this is just not right. 


I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering


#28 dalsaan

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 02:49 AM

Not all support and encouragement is healthy.  Some support encourages actions that are not productive for recovery and good mental health. Discouraging unhealthy actions is compassionate, responsible and at times courageous because you know its not what the person wants to hear. This is not cruel.   Drawing boundaries around behaviours that are not conducive to healing is showing a distinct duty of care.

 

In regard to Broken, I don't intend on talking about him in any detail.  However, I will say that having reviewed the nature of his engagements over time the mod team decided to maintain the ban which resulted from the accumulation of 4 warning points (which constitutes quite a number of second chances). It was a collective decision that took into account the contents of Broken's email.

 

What's wrong with posting a lot?   It means you are sitting on an electronic device and giving all your attention to withdrawal and your symptoms.   This is not as conducive to healing as exercise, going to the beach, meditating etc - all good ways of taking care of yourself that you have been encouraged to engage in/continue to engage in.  I see nothing cruel, rude or punitive about that.


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#29 Meimeiquest

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:46 AM

I was at times a very stubborn little girl. Once, at age five, my wishes were crossed and I decided to run away from home. My parents haas always heard "Just let them go, they won't go far." And so I packed a paper bag...all I remember in it was my favorite sundress and a pillow. We lived out in the country and I started walking down our lane to the main road. I thought I would go to my friend's, but their car pulled out of their driveway when I was a quarter mile away. My dad drove up (my little sister hysterical) and said I couldn't take the cat who was following me. Undaunted, I went to another neighbor's and told them I was going to stay with them. They said they didn't have an extra chair at the table, I said I would stand to eat. They said they didn't have a bed, I said I had a pillow and could sleep on the floor. In my mind I was never, ever going home. My plan was of get used to being without my family by staying at their house for awhile, then more to an ancient, abandoned house about five miles down the road. But she called my parents who said I had to come home now, or they would come get me and spank me. I said they told me I could leave. My dad came, he spanked me (not discussing pros or cons of that). I remember crying hysterically, but only recently did my mom tell me what I was saying as I cried..."Why did you let me go?" I remember everything in vivid detail except that. And from that time on, including with my own children, when someone threatens to run away from home, the parent calmly replies, "In this family we don't run away." And that's the end of it. Suicide is, among other things, the ultimate running away. I think it is a tremendous gift to say "We just don't do that here."

Andy, your post on attachment is so spot on. I have two adoptive daughters who lived in orphanages at one time, and there is so much drama around that...and the answer is almost always some version of "you are safe and loved...now stop that right now."
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#30 JanCarol

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 05:16 AM

Wow, what an excellent story, MeiMei!  I like the way the community joined in:  "but you cannot have the cat", "we don't have a chair" "you cannot sleep here" until your child's mind began to understand the lack of support for what you were doing.  It was a gentle, firm, and powerful way to teach boundaries to a young child.

 

When we are in pain, we often go back to similar mechanisms as children.  "Well, I'll just leave then," or "I'll do something drastic, THEN you'll see!" As adults, sometimes, even though these games are childish, we may couch them in adult phrases, so it is not as obvious as "I'm running away from home."

 

And the conclusion?  Stop that.  You are safe and loved here.  "We just don't do that here."  Beautiful.  Thank you MeiMei.


"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.

 

Currently Lithium Orotate 1.67 mg only.  I will re-evaluate this supplement in 2017.

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!


#31 bluebalu86

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 08:01 AM

Thank you dalsaan, I understand. 


I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering


#32 Altostrata

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 10:45 AM

"We just don't do that here" -- thanks, JanCarol and meimei -- is as good a way as any to describe our policy towards drama.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#33 Tilly

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 02:40 PM

Hi All,
 
This thread has niggled at me for several days - something just didn't sit right with me. I have tried to unravel and explain as best I can in the following post.
 
I perceive that the use of the word 'drama' is neither helpful or accurate in describing behaviours that occur on this site. I believe that trauma is a much more accurate definition of the origin of behaviour here. Language needs to be used very carefully to convey meaning with clarity, especially within groups where language and cultural diversity is present, as is the case here. 
 
The way we frame our language in interactions with others here is critical as we have no verbal cues or intonation to work with through this medium. Interpretation of communication is at least 70% non verbal.
 
If we look at the definition of the word drama v's trauma, there is distinct difference in value (judgement) associated with each term:
 
Definition of drama in English:
noun
 
1A play for theatre, radio, or television:
a gritty urban drama about growing up in Harlem
 
1.1 [MASS NOUN] Plays as a genre or style of literature:
Renaissance drama
 
1.2 [MASS NOUN] The activity of acting:
teachers who use drama are working in partnership with pupils
 
2 An exciting, emotional, or unexpected event or circumstance:
a hostage drama
 
Phrases
 
make a drama out of
1
informal Exaggerate the importance of (a minor problem or incident):
Gwyneth makes such a drama out of things
 
Origin
 
Early 16th century: via late Latin from Greek drama, from dran 'do, act'. Source also of drastic (late 17th century). The Latin dramatis personae has been used since the mid 18th century for a list of the characters in a play.
 
SYNONYMS
acting, the theatre, the stage, the performing arts, dramatic art, dramatics, dramaturgy, stagecraft, theatricals, theatrics, the thespian art, show business;
performing, performance, playing a role, appearing on stage, informal the boards, treading the boards, show biz, rare thespianism, histrionics.
 
ANTONYMS
Farce, joke, compression, firmness, jesting, tightness, humor, comedy, funniness, pleasantry, slapstick.
 
Definition of trauma in English:
 
1 A deeply distressing or disturbing experience:
a personal trauma like the death of a child
[MASS NOUN]: many experience the trauma of divorce
 
1.1 [MASS NOUN] Emotional shock following a stressful event or a physical injury, which may lead to long-term neurosis:
the event is relived with all the accompanying trauma
 
2 [MASS NOUN] Medicine Physical injury:
rupture of the diaphragm caused by blunt trauma
 
Origin
 
Late 17th century: from Greek, literally 'wound'. This is an English use of a Greek word meaning literally ‘wound’. It was transferred to the notion of a ‘mental wound’ in the late 19th century.
 
SYNONYMS
shock, upheaval, distress, stress, strain, pain, anguish, suffering, upset, agony, misery, sorrow, grief, heartache, heartbreak, torture;
disturbance, disorder, jolt, ordeal, trial, tribulation, trouble, worry, anxiety, burden, adversity, hardship, nightmare
 
ANTONYMS
benefit, blessing, comfort, contentment, favor, happiness, health, joy, calm, order, peace, alleviation, healing, help, relief.
 
(The Oxford English Dictionary; Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus, Third Edition).
 
I believe that the moderators on this site do an amazing job. I have had nothing but positive interactions on every occasion. I have always appreciated the diversity of their characters, experiences and the range of knowledge, personal skills and qualities that add so much value to this site. Moderating a site like this is a particularly difficult task, that the moderators negotiate brilliantly in the light that, they too have their own hardships and struggles ongoing as part of their own withdrawal process.
 
Most people arrive at this site in a frazzled state regardless of the diversity of their background and experiences. Some have a history of abuse and trauma that led them to take these drugs in the first place. We all have the trauma induced by the taking and withdrawing of these drugs, which is complex and involves loss on many levels and growth that needs to take place as a consequence.
 
There are a lot of psycho social theories that explain relationship dynamics. Such theories can be useful, but also harmful if applied incorrectly to traumatised people in crisis, who may receive this information as criticism, which further impacts, isolates and harms. The uncovering and healing of trauma and maladaptive dynamics is a complex and lengthy process that cannot be rushed, especially in withdrawal when crises will arise with some frequency.
 
One of the best therapists I knew was very reluctant to work on unraveling trauma with anyone on psychoactive medication. She believed this disadvantaged them within the process as much anyone who had a street drug addiction, with all of the chaotic behaviour associated with it. I understand this viewpoint now better than I ever did.
 
We are all uniquely different. Effective therapeutic modalities (if applicable at all) and catalysts for growth and behaviour change will be different for everyone. Some will be ready to undertake changes much quicker than others and all will progress at different rates. Some have advantages over others in terms of education, social background, economic background, access to support and heath care and emotional intelligence.
 
People who have experienced trauma on many levels throughout their life do not have a solid foundation on which to build progress and sustain it as many people do. It has to be learned / built from scratch. It takes much longer for such people, who may not be comprehended or tolerated well as a consequence. Such people are often very isolated and need support systems to access.
 
These differences in our experiences, starting points and susceptibility to change are important to acknowledge.
 
That said, I do not believe in colluding with people in behaviour that hurts them. I believe that as a community, we are a great source of knowledge and empowerment for others. I believe that the fact that people have somewhere like this site to be heard after numerous years of not being heard / being denied by GPs and psychiatrists is vital to growth.
 
We are all here to undertake healing and self care has to be of paramount concern for each and every one of us. Developing honest and healthy relationships here can facilitate this greatly. For those who are struggling or are getting stuck in this process, we can offer an example / lead by example of what is possible through our own stories and progress . We can also offer acceptance of their struggle as they perceive it to be (no one has the right to deny the experience of any other human being, in my opinion) and the compassion that we all need to feel as humans.
 
These are my thoughts on this matter. I felt the need to express them, after much consideration.
 
As always, I wish healing to all.
 
Tilly.

1999 - 2004 Paroxetine 20mg  -> 2004 - 2007 Citalopram 20mg -> 2007 -  short term Trazedone use (insomnia) -> 2007 - 2009 Fluoxetine 20mg  ->

2009 - Jan 2012 Citalopram 20mg  (Spring / Summer 2012 protracted withdrawal & related agoraphobia) -> 2012 - September Restarted Citalopram - unbearable start up effects. Discontinued in under 1 week -> Oct 12 -   October 2014 Escitalopram - 10mg prescribed. Started on 5mg and worked up to 10mg in 2.5mg increments  -> Oct 2014  - 5mg; 30/03/15 2.5mg; 15/04/15 3.5mg; 20/05/15 2.9mg;  19/09/15 2.8mg; 30/10/15 2.7mg; 13/11/15 2.6mg. Holding until March.

Diet:  mostly pescatarianl & lots of veg. Weekly offal for b vitamins.  Turmeric, nigella seeds, avocados, apple cider vinegar, coconut products daily. Lots of fluids: water, lemon juice, coconut water, herbal & green tea (decaffeinated).

Supplements: vitamin C 4000mg, Omega 3 fish oil - high DPA & EHA, vitamin E 400iu, vitamin D3 5000mg (Winter only - from sun in Spring / Summer), probiotics.

Current Symptoms: chronic fatigue, erratic sleep, extreme photophobia, eye floaters, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, cognitive & speech difficulties, dizziness, irregular gait, poor co ordination, severe facial and upper body muscle tension, head and neck pressure.

Coping Strategies: good nutrition, cooking, gardening & growing my own food, cycling, dancing, yoga, photography, sewing & creative pursuits, self massage, pampering, meditation, journalling, nature, cuddling cats & humans, laughter & humour, gratitude, self care, aromatherapy, audio books, word games & believing in myself, my potential and my future.

 

"Everything I need is within me" - Shakti Gawain


#34 Meimeiquest

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 03:42 PM

Hi Tilly, thank you for such a well-expressed, thoughtful post. This is off-the-cuff, not thought out, but what do you think of this: Trauma in the situations we're talking about here often gets "acted out" as drama. The problem is, it's very serious, and to address it here is to imply that this is adequate care and support for that trauma, but it's not. So it doesn't serve people well to engage at that level, when it's something that can't be cared for here. One of the most serous mistakes people can do as helpers is take on situations beyond their ability to handle them. Just tossing that out.

One more question, how would posts from mods read differently if they we're able to incorporate your thoughts?

Appreciate what you have shared, even though I'm not a mod!
1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.
Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12
Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13
Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15
11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)
9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol
7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol
56 years old

#35 dalsaan

dalsaan

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 03:44 PM

Tilly,

  

 

Thanks for your thoughtful post and engagement on this issue.  Given I used the word drama in the first place, I would like to respond to what you have said.  I think both terms can go together if we understand trauma to be the underlying cause and drama, acting out, to be the outward manifestation.   

 

Dalsaan


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.
Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.
Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.
Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.
Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).
Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

>My intro post is here - http://survivinganti...ic/2250-dalsaan

#36 Tilly

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 04:28 PM

Hi Meime,

 

My understanding of the definition and experience of trauma and my working knowledge of it incorporates a lifelong struggle with the impact of such trauma. ''Acting out'' is a pseudo term (often coined by Freud who also believed in hysteria - mania of any women with a womb which is now commonly known as conversion disorder) that denigrates the experience of the recipient of trauma. It suggests a level of fakeness, exaggeration and blames the victim for the distress that they experience subjectively due their inability to integrate trauma in a socially acceptable way.

 

A traumatised person may experience emotional disturbances and behavioural changes for a limited time or throughout their life, depending on the support that they can access on an ongoing, consistent basis. Not enablement, but support characterised by empathy, honesty and empowerment at a pace commensurate with individuals ability to adapt to change.

 

In my experience of working with traumatized client groups, I worked within an outcome management model of change focused around gauging the impact of medication, therapeutic interventions, maximising financial income, housing and social networks on individuals with severe and enduring mental health problems (those exceeding two years of medication). The most significant catalyst for change was to be engaged in an ongoing, positive network of support as I discussed in the previous paragraph.

 

At no point in my post did I suggest that it was at all acceptable or healthy to personally take on the issues of others. I believe this is neither healthy to the sufferer or person trying to help if it is beyond the scope of their ability to help. In this case, signposting to crises services is of great help, to both acknowledge distress and provide an appropriately qualified outlet for it.

 

This is a peer support group. I feel that we should support our peers as best we can. If you are in not direct therapy with a client, I believe it is best to avoid psycho social / therapeutic assessment of them without the due process of assessment and qualification to do so. Therapeutic modalities, effectiveness and ethics vary greatly and are best not prescribed in any case, let alone in this context.

 

Tilly


1999 - 2004 Paroxetine 20mg  -> 2004 - 2007 Citalopram 20mg -> 2007 -  short term Trazedone use (insomnia) -> 2007 - 2009 Fluoxetine 20mg  ->

2009 - Jan 2012 Citalopram 20mg  (Spring / Summer 2012 protracted withdrawal & related agoraphobia) -> 2012 - September Restarted Citalopram - unbearable start up effects. Discontinued in under 1 week -> Oct 12 -   October 2014 Escitalopram - 10mg prescribed. Started on 5mg and worked up to 10mg in 2.5mg increments  -> Oct 2014  - 5mg; 30/03/15 2.5mg; 15/04/15 3.5mg; 20/05/15 2.9mg;  19/09/15 2.8mg; 30/10/15 2.7mg; 13/11/15 2.6mg. Holding until March.

Diet:  mostly pescatarianl & lots of veg. Weekly offal for b vitamins.  Turmeric, nigella seeds, avocados, apple cider vinegar, coconut products daily. Lots of fluids: water, lemon juice, coconut water, herbal & green tea (decaffeinated).

Supplements: vitamin C 4000mg, Omega 3 fish oil - high DPA & EHA, vitamin E 400iu, vitamin D3 5000mg (Winter only - from sun in Spring / Summer), probiotics.

Current Symptoms: chronic fatigue, erratic sleep, extreme photophobia, eye floaters, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, cognitive & speech difficulties, dizziness, irregular gait, poor co ordination, severe facial and upper body muscle tension, head and neck pressure.

Coping Strategies: good nutrition, cooking, gardening & growing my own food, cycling, dancing, yoga, photography, sewing & creative pursuits, self massage, pampering, meditation, journalling, nature, cuddling cats & humans, laughter & humour, gratitude, self care, aromatherapy, audio books, word games & believing in myself, my potential and my future.

 

"Everything I need is within me" - Shakti Gawain