DC112: struggles after Pristiq

[ChessieCat]

Magnesium

 

Start with a small amount first and build up gradually.  You might be able to use 1 spray several times a day.  And I suggest not having magnesium in a bath and using the spray as well.  Try one or the other.

 

From this post:

 

"It's new or so says the sticker on the bottle I used some on my neck and it seemed to relax the muscles a bit I came across another topical magnesium spray in a pharmacy in Texas NOTE: Do not spray mag salt on freshly shaven legs or _________ (fill in body part)"

[DC112]

Hello

 

I just made a 5% cut on gabapentin three days ago. I can feel withdrawel symptoms but this far I have managed. This afternoon has been tough. That inner uneasiness, skin crawling felling.

 

I tried and pill that is only CBD medical pot that a friend gave me and I think it made symptoms worse.

 

I have magnesium capsules that I bite into and the spray and Epsom salt. I'm not sure if the mag is helping right now. Any ideas on how to take it? When? Or other ways to ease symptoms in these initial days?

 

Thanks!

[scallywag]

It's always difficult to predict how any individual will react to the addition of a neuro-active substance, regardless of whether it's a pharmaceutical or over-the-counter medication or "natural" remedy or recreational/street drug.

Are you keeping notes of your symptoms? If not, please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms

Some people experience an intensification of symptoms after a dose reduction. The symptoms usually settle in time. Please consider waiting before your next dose reduction until after your symptoms have diminished.

Magnesium is subtle in its effect for many people; some, but not all people, report noticeable improvements with it. The foods we eat are generally deficient in magnesium so supplementation is often helpful. If you are not having a negative reaction, then you are probably fine. If you want more specific information, please post more about the magnesium you are taking and how you are taking it. Also, reviewing the Magnesium topic might be helpful.

[DC112]

Thank you! I will do some reading on mag.

 

Can herbal teas be helpful for any of this? Any other natural ideas to calm withdrawel in the initial drop period? I'm just uncomfortable

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[scallywag]

Web search tools, e.g. Google & Bing, are your best friend for these questions.  Include site:survivingantidepressants.org as a search term in addition to the topic you are seeking.

 

Example: site:survivingantidepressants.org "herbal tea"

[DC112]

Hello

 

I have noticed some relief from withdrawel symptoms by using two to three cups of Epsom salt in a warm/hot bath about a half hour after taking my meds. I am very thankful for the relief that the magnesium, if feel, is giving me.

 

Also

 

I was concerned by an excerpt out of one of Dr. Breggins books that I read. He said that there is evidence of Permanent brain damage from meds? Not sure how this can be said when people get better like we see, and also, all the people that continue to improve? If the brain was permanently damaged that how and why are so many people healing.? Including me!

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[KarenB]

I haven't read Breggins, but perhaps he means in some cases - but surely not in all.  I imagine that when any part of the body gets damaged there is a possibility of some of it being permanent, but that there is also the probability of real and meaningful healing.

 

I also wonder where that evidence came from?  Did they monitor people to the ends of their lives, or perhaps for a much shorter period (similar to the short periods people are monitored for in SSRI drug trials)?  In which case the people may have healed further after the monitoring stopped. 

 

One thing this journey has taught me is that there are always more questions to ask.  My overall impression is that the whole SSRI-w/d mess is much more serious than the mainstream realise, but also that people are capable of much more healing than most people realise. 

 

Keep asking those questions Dan.

Karen

[DC112]

Thank you Karen for getting back to me!

 

I am two weeks out of my 5% cut on gabapentin. So I now am at around 255mgs. After a few shaky first days I started religiously taking Espom salts baths about a half hour after taking my meds. I noticed that it really helped that irritability and that crawling in the skin type of feeling. But now about a week and a half out I started dealing with a oppressive/agitated mood after taking my meds. Is it ok to take two Epsom salt baths a day? Is this too much? I have to try something as this makes me very uneasy.

 

Also, I am taking a Barlean's brand syrup for my omega 3's. Is this a beneficial way to take it? I have trouble tolerating pills.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[KarenB]

As to a second bath, the only way to know is to try it.  You'll soon get a feel for your tolerance.  It's lovely to hear how you are looking after yourself so well. 

 

As to the syrup, I'm not familiar with it.  Maybe google?  Or you could ask in the fish oil thread. 

 

Karen

[DC112]

Feeling very pained and discouraged right now. I'm two weeks out of a 5% taper and I'm having really tough days.

[scallywag]

I'm sorry to read this latest decrease has resulted in some tough symptoms.  I hope that they'll soon subside.

[DC112]

Thank you scallops and Karen for your responses

 

It has been a little over a month now since my last 5% cut. I seemed to have a very challenging second and third week but have slowly felt like I have settled in. Unfortunately I have noticed that I have been having some sleep issues since making the cut. Is this common when tapering gabapentin? I can fall asleep but I can't stay asleep. I wake up a couple times a night feeling reved up and panicked. And it's hard to go back to sleep. Any recommendations.?

 

I am thinking of doing a micro taper instead of 5% cuts moving forward. Gabapentin is in powder is this ok to do a micro taper with? Am I able to be accurate enough with my Gemini scale?

 

Thank you!

[DC112]

When someone has time can Iget a response to this issue. Thanks!

[KarenB]

Things are getting busy close to Christmas eh?  Waking during the night is very normal when tapering anything.  It will settle again, but you may like to hold a bit extra before your next reduction. 

 

Micro-tapering, or the brassmonkey slide are a good option for those of us sensitive to small changes.  Do you make your own liquid from the powder?  It may make it easier to measure accurate doses. 

[DC112]

I just open the pills and weigh the powder

 

I tried an oil from a compounding pharmacy last year but didn't react well.

 

I was thinking of just doing a 1.3% taper every week.

 

How could I make a liquid? Would I have to transfer slowly from powder to liquid?

 

Thanks for getting back to me. I can't tell u how appreciative of all these recommendations and support.

[KarenB]

I've never made a liquid, but there are instructions here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2309-tips-for-tapering-off-neurontin-gabapentin/

Scroll down 6-7 posts to find the details posted by Alto.  It is recommended to gradually move from powder to liquid. 

 

It also has a reaction with magnesium, so it's best not to take that. 

[DC112]

Thanks!.. Should I not be taking Epsom salt baths. I find them to be calming. Can I take them after I take my 250 mg of gabapentin?

[KarenB]

I'm unsure whether epsom salts would interfere or not, and the thread doesn't make it clear.  Trial and error might be the way to work it out.  Perhaps go for a while without the baths, keeping good notes, and then try with the baths, also keeping notes. 

[DC112]

I'm confused because I thought magnesium is supposed to be used to help tapering and withdrawel?

[scallywag]

Many people find magnesium helpful. Some people have a paradoxical reaction. The best anyone can do is to test for a reaction by trying small doses or weak baths. If no reaction then a small increase and observe.

[KarenB]

Usually, people do find mag helpful.  I was just noting this, from the Gabapentin thread: http://survivinganti...tin-gabapentin/

NOTE There is an interaction between gabapentin and magnesium, see http://www.webmd.com...s/intrtype-drug. Taking magnesium at the same time as gabapentin decreases the absorption of gabapentin. Avoid taking aluminum or magnesium containing products (such as antacids) for 2 hours before your gabapentin.

 

It looks like the main concern is to avoid magnesium a couple of hours before your dose of gabapentin.

[DC112]

Oh.. Thank you both!

 

Do you guys think it might be easier to get off viibryd before gabapentin. I recently did a 5% cut and it didn't go well at all. Thanks!

[DC112]

Can I get a response on this?

 

Thank you

[scallywag]

DC -- Have you looked at the discussion in this topic: Taking multiple drugs? Which to taper first?

 

Viibryd is an SSRI, an accelerator; gabapentin is an anti-convulsant, a brake.

[DC112]

Thank you for this!

 

I am unable to do a reduction with gabapentin at this point. I I go into a complete tailspin when I do

 

Is it possible that when I taper off the viibryd first, or get it much lower, That gabapentin tapering would become more tolerable? I'm very concerned because gabapentin is the med that can cause significant side effects daily for me.

 

Thanks!

[scallywag]

Tapering the accelerator drug before the brake is to allow the "brake" drug to mitigate any w/d symptoms that could be called "stimulation effects": insomnia, brain zaps, etc. 

 

When was the last time you reduced gabapentin low enough to get symptoms?

[DC112]

So me getting of viibryd first has no effect on the severity of gabapentin withdrawel? This would be a horrendous situation for me if that would be the case. From what I read it sounds like reducing the break first can be much harder because your then feeling effects from the accelerator. But if I remove the accelerator first, won't the break be easier to remove after the accelerator is gone? I truly hope so!!

 

I took a 5 percent cut over two months ago. I tried a very small cut, like 1 percent a couple weeks ago and couldn't tolerate it even for a day. So I turned to the idea of getting off viibryd first in hopes that it would be more tolerable and then lead me to have a more tolerable time getting of gabapentin eventually.

 

Every time I've removed any dose from gabapentin I've really suffered.

 

I'm choosing to stay positive, but I'm very concerned about this

 

Thank u for your time!

[scallywag]

Yes, you've got the point of tapering the accelerator first in your first paragraph.

 

I can't predict how your CNS (central nervous system) will react to tapering Viibryd first then the gabapentin. Sadly nobody can. The only way to find out is by doing it.

[DC112]

I'm struggling right now. I'm feared by the idea of never getting off gabapentin. I'm asking for support at this time as I am hurting.

[KarenB]

It can be a very scary thing, DC.  You aren't the first in that place of being so unsure of how it will all work out, and you won't be the last.  Neuro-emotions tend to make these fears bigger again.  Have you been having magnesium baths?  Or do you have other soothing things to help you through the tough days? 

 

I know you've been trying to decide which drug to reduce first.  Any ideas yet?  As you feel sensitive to changes, a micro-taper is probably a good idea.  Go really gently. 

 

You'll get through it DC.  One day all this will be behind you.

[Altostrata]

Hello, DC. What are the side effects you get from gabapentin?

 

You can take Epsom salts baths any time. As scallywag said, it's best to increase gradually. What kind of magnesium do you take orally?

 

Yes, you can hold on the gabapentin and taper the Viibryd carefully. What times of day do you take your drugs? Do you have any particular symptoms after you take each of them?

[DC112]

Karen- thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it. I have been taking mag baths. Generally two to three cups of mag. Sometimes a seem to get a good amount of benefit and sometimes it is very subtle. When I dropped gabapentin by five percent last time I took one everyday after taking my meds and I felt that it really helped every day. But then the second and third week of withdrawel it seemed to not be as affective because I got the horrible mood issues and other terrible withdrawel symptoms. And the baths didn't seem to help as much at that point( although they still did help to a degree).

 

Alto- Thank you for the response. The side effects I get from gabapentin are a cognitive fog that can be really tough at times and just a dopey, uncomfortable feeling.

 

I sometimes take magnesium citrate. But since I've started the baths I haven't really taken it. And I generally only take 25 to 50 milligrams bits off of a 200 mg capsule. Maybe I can do a little of both?? I also take a Barleans oral omega 3,6,9 syrup.

 

I take all my meds at 11 am. 2.5 buspar, around 255 mg of gabapentin, and 10 mg viibryd. For around three hours after taking the drugs I feel the side effects. I feel the side effects, I think, mainly from the gabapentin. I also then take 2.5 mg of buspar at night as well. Could getting off gabapentin become easier if I lower viibryd? Any reduction of gabapentin seems too hard at this point. But maybe I just need to figure out a good ep bath and mag capsule regimen and amount?

 

Thank u both

[DC112]

Can I get a repose to this? Thanks

[scallywag]

If you're willing to invest the time, you'd do well to hold steady with your doses and figure out non-drug techniques that make a difference, like the epsom salt bath. You could try to find the balance of magnesium supplementation -- bath vs. tablet -- that is optimal.

 

Also, you may wish to investigate changing to a product that is exclusively Omega 3 (EPA & DHA). Most northern Europeans and North Americans get more than enough Omega 6 from grain-based foods and not enough Omega 3. The omega 3 fatty acids are particularly supportive CNS processes, including those in the brain. Omega 9 is easy to get from nuts and olive oil.

I wish I, we, or someone could tell what will happen to your symptoms if you reduce one medication instead of another. There are two many unique individual factors, many of which seem to be unknown, at play to be able to answer your question.

[DC112]

I'm holding for now. But in the near future I'm going to start making 5% cuts on viibryd.

 

I eat salmon two to three times a week which I've read gives me tons of good omega 3.

 

I will keep experimenting with epsom salt baths and mag capsules. And other remedies. I feel that eating a good healthy diet has been good.

[DC112]

Is it doable to have a compounding pharmacy to make a 9.5 mg viibryd. They have told me they can?? Is it reliable? Are they accurate enough? Thanks!!