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Baseline; What is my baseline? I find this a very difficult question to answer. Today I feel like I’m having a baseline day so I’m going to have a shot at it: I’m sitting down on a bench, doing somatic tracking. I start from my feet, they feel normal, comfortable, perhaps with a slight tingling on my left foot. I go up my body, the torso feels normal, the arms feel normal. The chest is where the first sign of symptoms occurs. There’s a slight pressure on it, breathing is normal, there’s just this weight. Then, I reach my neck and head. Funnily enough, I often find myself comparing my neck and head to my foot and ankle. Because one feels so normal and the other so abnormal. It feels like there’s a ball of adrenaline inside the back of my neck. Or that it’s stuck to a low power socket. The sensation diffuses into the back and head. Then, behind my eyes, there’s this constant and intense burning, I’d say a 6/10 normally. These two symptoms together sometimes ofuscaste activation/agitation. The latter has been calming down and I sometimes wonder if the distress from the aforementioned somatic sensations has come to replace it. I continue walking, continue healing.

I would hold for awhile. I also research obsessively when I’m struggling or have concerning symptoms.

It is important to note that windows does not necessarily mean periods of time with no symptoms, it can also mean your symptoms calm down for a while before ramping up again. I don’t get any true windows, I haven’t had 0 symptom moments ever. What I do have is symptoms calming down for certain periods of time, though I’m not sure if that isn’t just my baseline improving between waves.

8 years ago I desperately wanted and needed to give definitive closure to the moral torture and moral hell of my life, to a be fully a "functional" and "moral" person, that is, I was trapped in this extreme moral loop that I couldn't escape from nor understand because I had never been able to understand and manage my moral feelings, emotions, trauma, reactions and conflict, I never had the moral support system and education that I needed to do so and get out of this excruciating moral loop, no ever explained all these things to me nor teach me how to deal with all these complex and overwhelming moral issues, I simply lacked that data and insight, so I was stuck in that moral loop, feeling immoral for feeling inmoral, for having those moral trauma responses. I had internalized my relational environment's twisted and insane moral system. When you feel immoral for feeling immoral, for having moral trauma responses, if the only way to feel moral and relieve the unbearable moral suffering is to be a "functional" person, i.e., a "moral" person, but you don't feel moral because in fact you feel immoral and are "dysfuntional" for whatever reason, and no one morally supports you to feel moral again and be "functional" but does the opposite of what you need, you are screwed. I did all this 8 years ago so I could escape from my excruciating, tortuous, hellish, terrifying, absolutely conditioning, disabling moral loop without anyone's moral support or understanding, in a definitive way, once for all.

It sounds to me like the symptoms are a little worse this last cut. If it were me, I would hold another week and see if they settle out. I can't say for sure, but I know the nervous system heals in patches, so it moves around to different areas. It could be that yours is working in a certain area, and then needs to move to another to do some work there too. That was my experience. If you feel the symptoms are too difficult, you could certainly try a microtaper. Or, you could just give yourself more time in between your cuts. I don't think you need to worry about tolerance withdrawal with holding an extra week.

Hi @54fiftyfour Yes, I did experience an increase in symptoms after taking my dose. For me, I don't believe it was paradoxical, rather just withdrawal symptoms from a big cut right at the beginning. To answer your second question, my symptoms didn't improve until I was almost off the medication. It was very difficult all the way down for me, but it's like night and day now. I really think your symptoms will improve. I know it may not feel that way, but they will.

One symptom that worried me months ago was bradycardia. My heart rate was 49-52 bpm while resting and dropping lower during sleep. Now it seems to be back to normal 62-64 bpm, but i still have other severe debilitating dysautonomia symptoms…

It's uncomfortable how little they know about this stuff isn't it. This is great that the pharmacy can do this. Takes some pressure off having to do it yourself. So, when do you plan on trying to cut the propanolol?

On your first question choytu: I've found magnesium sulfate(in the tub with water) to be sometimes too much, when I am experiencing fatigue and weakness. I've had warm baths in Epsom salts(magnesium sulfate) where yes, I definitely feel weaker in the muscles and wiped out, even when using just a handful. So at those times I do just warm bath water to relax, no additives. I've used glycinate less....... and that I do orally/by mouth and find it more calming when I feel like I need some calming. Helps me relax sometimes, with less effect on overall muscles. It's okay to HOLD on it, you would not need to taper it. I fully expect you'll get a window from the overall fatigue and muscle weakness. Most of us do. Just go easy when you need to, as I think you do........with the expectation that this won't last forever and forever. I believe we can heal from most all of it. Best case of the other vitamins you mention is to get set with them prior to tapering, or perhaps while on a HOLD period of several months. I'll give you the link to the general topic, that has sub-links indexed. And then remember to just try one new thing at a time, and do observations on paper, prior to adding anything else. Best to avoid multivitamins....... at least until you know that you tolerate each vitamin okay. Hope you follow the logic. Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, and diet I hope that helps choytu. Rooting for you and continued healing with your nice and slow, steady approach. L, P, H, and G, mmt

I need to make some changes in my life, to move foward. I know my crazy morals are blocking me from making those changes, I don't feel a legitimate person nor empowered to do them, I feel unworthy, underserving. I already felt enough immoral and criminal before the psychiatric intervention, I never needed to be criminalized, no one does. The moral injuries that psychiatry inflicted to me are long lasting, deep. I knew that I needed to rest 8 years ago, to heal my moral injuries, to recover, to reprocess all my moral trauma and to find meaning in my life's moral suffering but I couldn't, because the moment I tried to and stopped my life to do so, i.e., of being a "functional", "moral" person, my moral identity assaulted me, tortured me with an overwhelming and intoxicating amount of shame and guilt and possessed me, took control over my mind and life, it hijacked me and let me stuck in survival mode, in a extremely intense fight-flight reaction (my postraumatic and moral crisis), then psychiatry criminalized me and drugged me, for, in fact, not being "functional", productive, "moral", it forced me to come back to "normal" without having solved nothing, it deprived me from my natural right to suffer, to solve my moral issues and life problems (that suffering uncovers and indicates forcing us to face them making us suffer until we solve them), to mature, to develop as a person. My personal development got halted and frozen, and my moral, emotional, social and mental resilience shattered. Since the psychiatric intervention happened I've been trapped in this fight-flight reaction/survival mode, trying to contain my moral suffering, coming from my unresolved complex moral trauma and inner-external conflict, that psychiatry didn't let me to solve, told me was not real, that I had gone crazy and my sick mind invented all this, that it was nonsense, crazy talk, infantilizing and totally gaslighting me, forcing me to give up trying to find closure for and to forget everything. I wanted and desperately needed to end my moral torture and psychiatry instead of morally supporting me violated my humans rights and criminalized me, arresting me for a month in a concentration and reeducation camp. Human condition is complicated, and psychiatry, by not understanding nor accepting it but pathologizing it, unnecessarily makes it even more complicated, difficult, painful, excruciating. It's criminal. People need to realize all this, sooner than later.

Welcome @BrooklynWoman Yes, missing doses is not ideal and can leave you with some WD symptoms. The symptoms you mention are on the WD checklist: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) Sadly, not at all surprising! Slow is the way to go: Why taper by 10% of my dosage? Consistency and accuracy are vital. When I started on this journey, I thought cutting my pill in half with a pill cutter was good enough...I've learnt that is not the case. You must be consistent and accurate. Many of us find the initial drop manageable, but the lower we go, the slower we must go. Again, you list typical WD symptoms. Have a read of this link: A few more helpful links: The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering Windows and waves pattern of stabilization Emotional Spirals Non-drug coping strategies Melatonin for sleep We don't suggest many supplements, but two that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. Add one at a time and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. Magnesium Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) Avoid alcohol. Don't change the manufacturer of your AD. This is your own Introduction topic. Each member has only ONE Introduction topic. Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress. This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. Once again, welcome to S.A. Emonda

@Mia1 thanks for your kind words and support. I think there is some awareness, but sometimes I'm so caught up in emotion that I can't listen to that part of my brain. Other times I won't think about something until later. The unconditional self love is a hard one for me but something I think I really need. @Dee12h thank you for checking in on me. Last week...was real bad. I became convinced I had life-ruining health problems. I hardly left the house, when I wasn't working I was either laying down or pacing in a panic. Now it is clear that I am in fact fine, or at least fine enough, and that staying up all night reading articles about symptoms is probably a bad idea. I was in such a state that I wrote letters to my wife and son, worried that life as I knew it was over. I've felt better this week after getting more validation that I'm OK. But I'm really struggling with intrusive thoughts, things that are really upsetting me. And anxious about some upcoming travel. Last week was supposed to be my week to drop my dosage down again, I completely forgot about that with everything going on. Debating whether to still do it this weekend or not. On one hand, it feels like things won't get better and might as well make progress. On the other, it feels like I'm in a really screwed up place right now.

Hi @54fiftyfour I think that some people experience what you do in terms of a reaction to benzos. I had that reaction when I was tapering Lamictal and switched to liquid from tablet. The liquid hit my system faster and I would feel hyper. In answer to your second question, yes, I have known people who struggled the whole way off benzos and did not find relief till they were off. It was not their fault, they just had that reaction. They healed after they got off. Hibari

I feel like I'm finally getting my stuff together, getting out of the fog, even if still hurts, a lot, and I'm in distress. I have a hell lot of moral trauma, moral injuries, I've experienced so much shame and guilt in my life, I always felt like a criminal, absolutely immoral, inhuman, like a monster. My trauma is very deep and complex, and my internal-external moral conflict too. But I can now connect the dots and understand almost everything, I can make sense of my experiences and I know better what I need, what I needed but forgot. I know most of my psych pain and suffering is of a moral nature, and that psychiatry aggravated and complicated all this extremely. I know that my moral identity is tyrannical, because of how I was raised and my painful experiences in society. And I know that I need to rebuild my moral, mental and emotional resilience, to recover my emotional health, my mental stability, and my life, to empower myself, to be and feel a "moral", "normal", "sane" person, and to be happy.

Thank you for the kind words. I think this is encouraging too but I try to keep my expectation as low as possible haha! I can't thank you enough for the initial advice you gave me in here. If I had followed my doctor advice and continuing at 5mg I'd likely be in and hospital bed right now... with a whole cocktails of drugs to try and stabilize me. Thank god he didn't make me start at 10mg!! Again, I am very grateful to you and this community.

I’ve updated my signature what I wanna do is come of lorazepam safely and not trigger my Akathisia I had it actually go way down for about almost two months but once I started dosing my lorazepam on water I began to have issues. I have since 4/17/24 started taking my doses back in pills. I believe the water titration set me back and I pushed myself thinking I would adjust but most of my problems started after that for the most part. I have since updosed to 1.5 for two days now in an attempt to calm my system and buy time to readjust to pills. I figured it would be the best option I had as the water taper did not agree with my body and I was pretty much dosing it like that for a month and a half. My hope is with this updose I will stabilize then I can try to come off slow and safe with a micro dry cut method and avoid flaring up my Akathisia as much as I can during this process. I’m still afraid of the updose but it seemed like the best option as to let me stabilize since I haven’t really dropped anything besides once while on my water taper I went from 1mg daily to 0.9825mg daily and went back up after 5 days. I hope this updose and switch back to pills will set me up for success…

@Dee12h I long for that to happen.

thanks, @LostInCanada. That's helpful.

On April 3rd, after reducing Luvox from 12.5 to zero and Amitriptyyne from 25 to 10, from April 12th, 2024 I had withdrawal symptoms. Symptoms: Palpitation (NEVER had it before), Depression and Anxiety. Terrible dreams early in the morning that made me wake up terrified. I was also affected throughout the day by short waves of terrible feelings like: you'll stay like this forever, there's no other way out than to kill yourself, etc. In times of crisis it is very, very, very difficult to be sure that this happens because of the withdrawal. Normally we think we are going crazy. I don't know if any of you have ever experienced this, but today I felt sad when I thought I had this type of mental problem. I don't know how to explain it properly. It feels like this isn't all real and isn't happening to me. It could be derealization, a symptom that I know is very common in withdrawals. Today, April 18th, despite waking up very discouraged, I spent the rest of the day fine, as if nothing had happened. That's WD's big joke about these poisons. Lucky we have this forum to help us. I will wait for it to stabilize before decreasing the Amitriptyline to lower it to 8.75 mg - which, according to my calculations, is equivalent to a dose of 2.86 mg of Fluoxetine.

Magnesium bisglycinate is the best tolerated type of magnesium. Some still have difficulty with it. I am very sensitive but was fine with it. I take 200 mg daily in the morning. I honestly don't know if it helps me but it is an essential mineral that aids the nerves. The daily intake should be 360 mg daily so 200 mg is conservative. You could try 50 mg for a week and if that is fine try 100 mg for a week and so on. You also can have your magnesium levels checked through routine blood work. Mine were mid range before I started taking mag bisglycinate.

I appreciate you adding that perspective @BaccatePlayer.

@LotusRising @LostInCanada If I were wanting to add magnesium to my entirely disregulated hypersenstive system, how would you go about it? How much and at what rate would you titrate up?

I haven't read yet but I will. I thought I'd be functioning by now but it's not happening yet. Every day is moment by moment survival. Thanks so much for sharing and for your perspective. ❤️

Hi all, I'm 21 years old, and I've been on antidepressants for 6 years (since June 2018). I've been on my current medication, Pristiq (desvenlafaxine), since March 2021, so over 3 years. I take 50mg daily. If I miss a dose, within 12 hours, I feel sick (nauseous, headache, fatigue), see bright light and have blurred vision, and experience "brain zaps." Not to mention falling apart emotionally. No psychiatrist I have found is supportive of tapering the meds, even though I feel very stable and think the majority of problems I experience (i.e. daytime fatigue, needing 10+ hours of sleep, sexual dysfunction, diarrhea) are because of the meds. I unsuccessfully tried to taper in March 2023. I went too fast and was certainly cutting them imprecisely. I was okay until I got below half the original dose (25mg). Then, I was completely unable to function. Crying spells, extreme fatigue, suicidal thoughts, you name it. Any advice for making my next attempt to taper more successful would be incredibly welcome.

Hello, @itsalyssadood I am also in the withdrawal process and, browsing here, I found your stories and could identify with several situations you went through. Example: for two or three days I experienced short waves of terrifying/despairing thoughts like: "you're doomed to stay like this forever", "you'll never get better, the best thing would be to kill yourself". After reading your story I felt much more relieved. At the time of despair we think that these feelings that invade us are not from withdrawal and that they will never go away. Please continue to update us with your journey. Together we will help each other. God be with you.